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Amanpour

Interview With Chicago Illinois Mayor Lori Lightfoot; Interview With Political Analyst Ahilan Kadirgamar; Interview With The New Yorker And "Hollywood Ending" Author Ken Auletta; Interview With Former Republican Spokesperson And "Why We Did It" Author Tim Miller. DID NOT AIR LIVE

Aired July 12, 2022 - 13:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Hello everyone and welcome to AMANPOUR. Here's what's coming up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR LORI LIGHTFOOT (D-IL), CHICAGO: The City of Chicago is inundated with illegal guns.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: As the U.S. grapples with gun violence, a look at Chicago, a city in the eye of that storm. My conversation with Mayor Lori Lightfoot.

Then, Sri Lanka's protesters celebrate after forcing out their leaders. But what can save this country in crisis? I ask an economist who to part in the

demonstrations.

And new details about the rise and fall of Harvey Weinstein and the culture that enabled him. The "New Yorker's" Ken Auletta in his book, "Hollywood

Ending."

Also, ahead --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM MILLER, AUTHOR: And the focus on how can I help my team win, you know, more than I focused on caring about the public.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: Longtime Republican operative Tim Miller tells Walter Isaacson how he helped with the GOP on a road to hell.

Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Bianna Golodryga in New York sitting in for Christiane Amanpour.

President Biden and the Democratic Party are lauding the passage of the first major gun rights legislation in decades. It's a small victory after

Supreme Court rulings expanded gun rights, and Chicago could be the measure of its success.

The city is struggling with high levels of gun violence and lethal prime. In 2021, it experienced one of its deadliest years in recent memory, with

almost 800 homicides. The State of Illinois is also bracing for the impact of the Supreme Court's overturning of Roe v. Wade.

Though abortion access remains legal there, you can see on this map that it's surrounded by states where bands are coming into effect. Meaning, that

local providers could be overwhelmed.

So challenging are the times ahead. Earlier, I discussed all of this with Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot, who recently announced that she is running

for reelection. She's currently in Europe, championing her city's economic recovery. And Mayor Lightfoot spoke to me on the sidelines of Fintech Week

London. Here's our conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: Mayor Lightfoot, thank you so much for joining us. We saw President Biden signed into law the new bipartisan gun safety legislation

yesterday. Do you think that that will help reduce gun violence in Chicago?

MAYOR LORI LIGHTFOOT (D-IL), CHICAGO: I think it will go a long way in doing that. When you see something finally happening after 30 years of mass

shootings, victims and advocates coming together and begging, begging for the Congress to act, and it finally acts, I think it will help not only

because of the content of the legislation, which focuses specifically for Chicago on gun trafficking and straw purchasers, but it's a confidence

builder.

And hopefully, it sets the floor not to ceiling for next steps. Because we all know, while this step was important, it's not nearly enough and we need

to keep pushing for more common-sense gun legislation. But no question whatsoever, it will be a difference maker in Chicago.

GOLODRYGA: And this doesn't just have political ramifications. Obviously, there are economic implications as well. The number of homicides this year,

thus far, is down in Chicago from last year, but violent crime overall is up 4 percent over last year's pace.

LIGHTFOOT: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: Year to date, there have been 334 murders in the city, over 1,000 criminal sexual assaults. And I say this in the framework of a number

of large companies choosing to leave your city, whether it be hedge fund, Citadel, a large hedge fund moving to Florida, Boeing moving to the suburbs

of Washington, D.C. I know Kellogg has come into the city.

But as you're there in Europe and touting the city's economic growth there, I'm just curious what your response is to this move from many businesses

that are citing crime as their number one reason. Let me just Citadel.

Their spokesperson said, the firms are having difficulty recruiting top talent from across the world, Chicago, given the rising and senseless

violence in the city. Talent wants to live in cities where they feel safe.

What do you say to that?

LIGHTFOOT: Well, first of all, I'm going to push back on your premise. What we're seeing actually is a number of companies choosing to move to

Chicago. Last year, we had 73 companies that could literally relocate anywhere in the world coming to Chicago. This year, we have seen another 58

moving to Chicago.

[13:05:00]

So, yes, any business that we lose is unfortunate, but what we are seeing overall is businesses recognizing that Chicago is the right place to be.

They are recognizing that because our economy is the most diverse in the nation.

They are seeing it because the level of talent that we can attract in a City of Chicago is second to none and they're seeing it because the quality

of life and the cost of living is way better than what they are going to find, particularly when you are talking about tech talent, than on the

coast.

So, with due respect, I think you've got to look at all of the data and the bigger picture, because what we're seeing is an economy that is second to

none in the United States because all of the strengths, our diversity, our talent and this is an incredibly important place for businesses to come.

GOLODRYGA: So, you are saying, outside of Citadel and their statement, you are not seeing any concern for major businesses in the city about crime

levels?

LIGHTFOOT: No. Look, everyone cares about crime, of course, but what I'm saying to you is that this is not the thing that is a gating issue for

businesses to come and stay. We work very closely in conjunction with our business community to talk to them about what their concerns are. But we

are focused on public safety. It is the number one priority for me as mayor and for my team.

But what I'm saying to you is businesses are making a data-driven decision. And what we're seeing over and over again, both in '21 and again in '22 in

these first two quarters is businesses of all stripes, pharmaceuticals, Fintech, manufacturing, transportation logistics. The list goes on and on.

They are coming to Chicago.

So, I think the proof is in the pudding. And as I said, one business loss is one too many. But what we're seeing is a number of businesses flocking

to Chicago because of all the reasons that I just stated.

GOLODRYGA: Let me ask you about another bombshell ruling recently from the Supreme Court, and that is striking down -- overturning Roe v. Wade. You

call that a horrible tragedy and threaten legal action against states who are thinking about seeking to punish those who travel to Illinois for an

abortion. What kind of legal actions are you talking about?

And I'm hoping that you can -- because I've read that you've made a connection between guns and interstate gun trafficking and saying, be

careful what you wish for, in terms of any legal actions, other states, neighboring states, may take against you via -- because of abortions.

LIGHTFOOT: Well, there has been some notion out there in state -- other state legislatures that they are going to bring legal action against health

care providers and against women themselves if they travel outside of states where abortion is banned to a city like Chicago or a state like

Illinois.

I mean, I have to tell you, as an African American, what I hear when I hear that is fugitive slave laws like we are back in the day where they are

chasing people who are seeking freedom. It's the same kind of dynamic here. I don't believe that those laws would ever pass constitutional muster, even

with a court environment like we have in the United States right now.

And I am absolutely prepared to stand up and defend our reproductive rights, health care providers and the women who are seeking care because

Chicago remains a beacon of justice for all. We are going to make sure that no matter what happens in other parts of the country that Chicago remains

open for women to be able to control their own destiny, to have bodily autonomy and have access to reproductive care, both before, during, and

after any kind of treatment.

And we're, frankly, not going to tolerate other states trying to dictate to us where we choose to respect women and their rights, to try to deny them

access to care in a city like Chicago.

So, I'm ready and willing and able to defend our role as a city where no matter who you are, no matter who you love, no matter who you worship, no

matter what country of origin you come from, that you are going to find a safe home in my city. We're unabashed about protecting people's rights.

GOLODRYGA: You are there in London and Europe on tour there meeting for Fintech Week with the mayor of Paris and the mayor of London as well. What

are you hearing in terms of not only how the international world sees Chicago, both economically and politically, but also the United States

itself? We have the January 6th Hearings continuing here.

I'm just curious, what is your perception as to how our closest allies view the state of our democracy and view the City of Chicago today?

LIGHTFOOT: Well, it's an interesting question to ask. As we're here in London, and, obviously, you are aware of the changes at the federal

government level. But look, when we come to countries or when we come to other cities in the United States, we really have a twofold purpose.

One is to educate and advocate for the City of Chicago and let people know what the real story is about our incredible city, the strengths of our

economy, the opportunities that exist.

[13:10:00]

And I -- we -- when we have these conversations, as we have been having throughout yesterday and today in London, the light bulb goes off because

you don't hear that about Chicago. And frankly, you don't hear enough about Chicago in international markets. So, it's an opportunity to educate

people.

But we also take the opportunity to be educated ourselves. We believe that a city like London, which is, obviously, one of the iconic and great global

cities in the world that has a lot of similarities to Chicago, there is an opportunity for us to learn as well.

And when you think about the void that Brexit, I think, created when you think about trade between the United States and the U.K., there is a

tremendous opportunity for us to forge even deeper relationships. The U.K. is a number one source of foreign investment in Chicago. So, it makes sense

for us to be nurturing those relationships as we're doing here.

And look, I think the overall big picture response to your question is the world is in a still in a state of flux. All of us have -- our ways of life

have been upended because of the COVID-19 virus and our different responses to that. People's certainty about their day to day was taken away from

them.

And so, I think the challenge but also the opportunity for government leaders is to inspire hope, of course, but to take concrete tangible steps

that respond to the needs of people in this moment, and London and Chicago have a lot to learn from each other, but also a lot of opportunity because

we're going on the same journey, taking the same kind of steps, and I think there is tremendous opportunity for us to forge even greater relationships.

GOLODRYGA: Let me finally ask you, what do you make of some of the infighting amongst Democrats now about whether President Biden is the right

person to lead, not only the party, but the country forward if he does decide to run again in 2024? Do you think that he should? And if he does,

would you support him?

LIGHTFOOT: I am an unabashed supporter of the Biden/Harris administration. And frankly, what we need to focus on on Democrats is not what divides us,

but what unites us.

So, what, I think, has to happen as Democrats and certainly, at the federal administration is, we've got to pierce through the noise and make sure that

people know what is being done for their benefit so they can feel it. Perception becomes reality.

There is a lot of negativity and writing the obituary of the Biden/Harris administration, but I think that you are underestimating the strength of

what that team has been able to accomplish and we just need to make sure that we're doing more to tell that story.

And I can tell you at the municipal level, night and day. The level of cooperation that we get from the federal government, we don't feel as I

felt as mayor, particularly during the height of the pandemic, that we were on our own. The prior administration created an everyman, everywoman for

themselves scenario, which is a nightmare in the middle of a global crisis.

What you need at the top is real leadership, and that's what Biden/Harris has been able to provide us and it's made huge benefits to a city like

Chicago. So, I am very pro Biden/Harris, and I will gratefully campaign and support his re-election.

GOLODRYGA: Mayor Lightfoot, thank you so much for your time and safe travels back home.

LIGHTFOOT: Thank you very much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: We turn next to Sri Lanka, where today, the president was denied departure as he tried to jump on a plane and leave the country.

A senior military official says he refused to queue up for customs in public. Well, it's no secret why he would want to avoid people. After all,

it was his fellow Sri Lankans who rose up in mass protest and stormed the presidential palace over the weekend.

What you are seeing now are protesters celebrating in the president's very own pool. The movement forced him and his prime minister to resign, and

lawmakers are on the set now to elect a new president on July 20th. But can anyone handle Sri Lanka's legion of crises?

The country is in the midst of a historic shortage of fuel, food and medicine, and it also has months of blackouts.

Joining me on this is Ahilan Kadirgamar, a political economist and lecturer at the University of Jaffna. He also took part in the protests over the

weekend.

Thank you so much for joining us.

I guess, let me start off with the big picture question as to how a country that was once seen as a model for economic development could now be

experiencing a shortage of everything from petrol, to food, to basic essentials, really its worst crisis since it gained independence from Great

Britain in 1948.

[13:15:00]

AHILAN KADIRGAMAR, POLITICAL ECONOMIST: Thank you for having me. Of course, this regime of Gotabaya Rajapaksa has completely mismanaged the

economy, but we've also been hit by the pandemic and the recent price hikes due to the war in Ukraine.

But in a way, this crisis has been in the making for a long time. Sri Lanka has been living beyond its means. We have been borrowing heavily in the

international capital markets.

And now, we've gotten into a death trap where we are unable to repay our loans, we've defaulted on our debt two months ago. And now, having heavy

difficulties in paying for imports, including essential imports like fuel and cooking gas and even wheat flour for -- to make bread.

GOLODRYGA: As an economist, let me ask you, because there is some concern that this could cause political instability now in the negotiations with

the IMF in addressing some of those loans that you just mentioned.

How concerned are you that now with this government on the run and we're awaiting a presidential election in a few days, that this could hamper any

aid and assistance that the IMF was working on the previous government with?

KADIRGAMAR: Yes, once the president resigns, and he is expected to resign tomorrow, then parliament would vote somebody. It's not a presidential

election, but the parliament would vote kind of a temporary president on July 20th.

But part of the problem, the political problem in Sri Lanka has been this executive presidency which brought about 40 years ago. And we hope this is

a moment when the presidency can be abolished and we can go back to a Westminster style parliamentary system. That has also been one of the

demands of the protesters.

Now, this change of government, there is going to be an interim government, possibly a minority government in parliament. And whether they would be

able to take forward negotiations with the IMF, the creditors, it's to be seen.

But at the same time, Sri Lanka is going through a serious economic downturn. I would even characterize it as a depression. And what is need

most urgently is relieve for the people and some kind of stimulus.

So, during the next six months to a year, it might be difficult to take forward these negotiations, but Sri Lanka would have to figure out a way to

keep its population from going into starvation because we could be looking at a famine in a few months' time if the current conditions of being unable

to have imports and the food shortages continue.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. Sri Lanka owes a huge amount of debt to China. India has extended billions of dollars in loans over the past few months. But you

talk about the suffering that the people there are experiencing. Give us a sense of what 55 percent inflation is like. Expectations are that it could

rise to 70 percent.

We are having a very severe political implications here in America, and in the United States, as you know, as an economist, have been hit hard by

inflation at record levels and we are talking about 8 percent. What does 70 percent look like?

KADIRGAMAR: So, the price of gasoline has gone up almost threefold. The price of bread is three times what it used to be six months ago. And even

the staple, rice, which is produced here, is now threefold, partly also because of a disastrous fertilizer ban that the president brought about

last year.

So, it's -- so, people's cost of living has almost doubled, but their incomes have actually decreased with the economic depression. We could be

looking at our GDP shrinking by almost a tenth. So, the urgent need is relief to the people and there needs to be subsidies.

And that's where negotiations with the IMF are going to be difficult because the people just can't take on any more austerity. And that would be

grueling for them. They could be looking at malnutrition for our next generation.

So, it's going to be a very difficult task for the new government that comes up to walk this tightrope of trying to provide relief to the people

at the same time trying to bring about some amount of economic stability.

GOLODRYGA: It's a sad state, honestly, that so many around the world first got a glimpse of the crisis facing the country by the videos that we saw

over the weekend, the protesters storming the presidential residence and swimming in his pool or what have you. It gives you a sense of the lack of

knowledge that so many in the world have about politics and economies suffering in different regions.

That having been said, as we're looking at these images, I know that you also participated in these protests. Why was it important for you to join

your fellow countrymen and woman?

[13:20:00]

KADIRGAMAR: Yes. I'm also a vice president of the Federation of University Teachers Association. So, all the universities represented in my trade

union, and we were all there mobilizing because we wanted to see regime change.

And in fact, it was a great day of -- for democracy in Sri Lanka on Saturday when waves and waves of people came and despite the fuel

shortages, they found their way there on (INAUDIBLE), on buses. They even forced the trains to run because they wanted a change. And it's a new

beginning for Sri Lanka despite these hard times.

And I think this is what a democracy should look like when people decide that they have to take charge when consistently, the rule is, from regime

to regime, have undermined the people. So, hopefully, this opportunistic moment would translate into political and economic stability and a

different path for Sri Lanka.

GOLODRYGA: Is this a sign of what's to come in other developing countries, that have also felt the impact of not only the pandemic, but, obviously,

the ongoing war, the food insecurity, gas prices soaring? Is this something that you think that other nations should expect to experience as well in

the weeks and months ahead?

KADIRGAMAR: Unfortunately, I think so. You know, given those countries that are heavily dependent on borrowings and international capital markets

like the way Sri Lanka got into, they might be facing a similar kind of default or similar economic problems.

And I think the people's concerns of -- to ensure that this does not lead to mass poverty and deprivation should be a priority in all of these

countries because an entire generation could get affected by this kind of crisis.

My fear is that they are looking -- at least in some parts of the world, conditions like that were -- they are in the 1930s with the Great

Depression. And hopefully, it won't be that bad, and hopefully, the global community can come together to make sure it doesn't go that route. But for

the smaller countries like mine, this poses huge challenges going forward.

GOLODRYGA: You talk about this being a reason for optimism in the democratic country of people really protesting an inefficient government

out of office. I'm just curious, are you concerned at all about any instability, further instability and chaos that could ensue in the months

and then, in the days ahead as a new administration will be forming?

KADIRGAMAR: The protests have largely been nonviolent. People are very conscious of the need to keep it nonviolent and they are talking to the

political leaders. But with the long economic crisis that we are facing, we might have to go through a couple of cycles of elections.

If you look at what happened in Greece, you know, they are over a decade, I think seven prime ministerial changes. So, Sri Lanka might be looking at

something like that. But -- so that kind of political instability might be there until we find a progressive path forward.

But for now, the people, particularly the various trade unions, social movements, they are all slowly coming together to try to figure out a way

forward. And over the last four decades with new liberal policies in Sri Lanka, inequality has greatly risen.

So, this is also an opportunity to shift our economic trajectory so that we start to think seriously about the equality and freedom in our country.

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

KADIRGAMAR: We also went through a civil war for three decades. So, it's also an opportunity to bring together the minorities. Because in these

protesters people from various faiths, various ethnicities are all coming together, and that is a moment of optimism.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. Coming together in one of the country's largest crises in decades.

Ahilan Kadirgamar, thank you so much for your time and expertise. We appreciate it.

Well, next, we look to a very different downfall, that of Harvey Weinstein. The Hollywood super producer accused of being a serial abuser of women in

2017. His case exploded into the MeToo movement. And now, Weinstein has been put behind bars for 20 years.

But questions remain about how he got away with the abuse for so long. Well, some answers lie in a new book by "The New Yorker's" Ken Auletta.

It's called "Hollywood Ending: Harvey Weinstein and the Culture of Silence." And Ken Auletta joins me now from New York.

Ken, it's great to have you on.

We should note, this is not your first profile of Harvey Weinstein. You wrote a piece in 2002 for "The New Yorker." And in it, you report hearing

rumors about his misconduct, sexually abusing women. Those allegations never made it into your profile though. Why not?

[13:25:00]

KEN AULETTA, THE NEW YORKER, AUTHOR, "HOLLYWOOD ENDING": Well, I couldn't get the women to speak to me. I mean, I had heard about two women, Rowena

Chiu and Zelda Perkins who were abused at the Venice Film Festival in 1998. I tried to track them down. I tracked down, actually, Zelda in Guatemala.

She would not talk. She had signed a nondisclosure agreement, as had Rowena. Each got roughly $250,000.

And I went through the courts to try to find document, but it was a private settlement. Harvey paid them money and there was nothing in the courts in

England or the United States.

And when I confronted him, he said they were blackmailing him and threatening to tell his wife and embarrass his three young daughters. And I

couldn't get the women to speak. And he denied it. So, we didn't have the story.

And one of the things -- 15 years later, the two "New York times" reporters, Ronan Farrow, successfully got women to feel comfortable enough

to come out and acknowledge and expose this beast.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. And Ronan farrow, obviously, on a separate story there, had his piece ultimately killed by his employer on the time. I know you

worked with him on that. Some of the questions that you hope to have answered in this book was what made Harvey the monster that he became. And

you start by talking about his childhood and his parents, and how they raised him. Miriam and Max Weinstein.

What, if anything, did you learn in hopes of answering that question about what his childhood was like and the roles that his parents played in both

his life and his brother's?

AULETTA: Well, Harvey was a bit of a nerd in junior high school and high school. And even when he went to the University of Buffalo for the first

three years. I could find no evidence that he abused women. But I did find evidence in talking to his childhood friends that his mother was a very

volatile person.

The way he was, actually, as an adult. And constantly yelling at him. So much so that his friends who played poker every weekend with him refused to

play poker at the Weinstein home because Miriam Weinstein yelled too much, and it was kind of jarring for them to do that.

And so, Harvey, when you look at his career, one of the things he did in the office all the time was yell at people. And so, that's clearly a

pattern that was formed in his childhood. And Miriam would say, Harvey, stop eating that. Harvey, you are too fat. Harvey, don't do that. And it

obviously affected him.

But there is no one rosebud that's going to explain why Harvey Weinstein became the monster he became. But one of the other conclusions I did come

to is that he is a sociopath. And if you talk to professional doctors and experts, they tell you that the three ingredients that define a sociopath

are narcissism, lack of empathy, and lack of guilt. And Harvey had all three of those qualities.

Now, you can have those qualities and not be a sociopath, but you are not raping women as Harvey did.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. And what you made clear in the book, because there had been this conception that he perhaps, when this news first made headlines

in 2017, the reason he got away with it was because he was so powerful, he was so successful, but you write in actuality there was no one in his life

to say no to him.

And you talk about the first credible accounts of Harvey, the sexual predator, started from when he gained power and fame working in the music

industry in Buffalo, New York, before his days at Miramax. How was that possible that his sexual proclivities and attacking women and assaulting

even women back then went unchecked?

AULETTA: Well, it's over four decades of abusing women, and people knew. People who worked for him knew that he was abusive, certainly knew he was

cheating on his two wives, the women he later married. And yet, no one -- nothing was revealed.

The first time Harvey was exposed in the press as a sexual predator was in 2015. So, for four decades before, nothing in the press. Even though there

were lots, lots of whispers.

GOLODRYGA: You talk to associates of Harvey's who compare him to sort of a Jekyll/Hyde. Talk about that and the sort of larger-than-life three-

dimensional character that he was, a brilliant filmmaker. He and his brother had a passion for films that started at a very young age, but the

different sides in him that made for a very unhealthy and toxic workplace, to say the least.

AULETTA: Well, Harvey was a brilliant movie producer and distributor. That's undeniable. You look at the galaxy of movies that won Academy

Awards. I mean, we're talking about pulp-fiction, "Shakespeare in Love, "The Crying Game," "My Left Foot," the list goes on and on.

[13:30:00]

And while you are writing about a monster, you're also -- if it's a biography, you also have to write about the talent and what his legacy in

the movie business is, and I try to do that. But nevertheless, Harvey never started to abuse women until he had power, and he abused them in the most

vial ways. And that this was a secret that never got out is absolutely astonishing.

GOLODRYGA: And you talk about the impact that it has on all of these victims. It changed their lives for years and it impacted their health,

impacted their relationships. They weren't coming forward. They -- and many of them blamed themselves for putting themselves in certain situations. So,

talk about the work environment and atmosphere there at Miramax.

I want to just quote from the book how you describe life at the firm in the '90s, four assistants just sat outside Weinstein's office, making and

receiving phone calls, interpreting Harvey's mood for Miramax executives who hovered by their desks, relaying Harvey's orders, filing, making

appointments for actresses Harvey asked to see, and waiting to be verbally abused.

Why would anyone put up with that kind of workplace and treatment in the 1990s?

AULETTA: One of the reasons they put up with it is because Miramax was doing amazing movies. And if you wanted to be in the movie business, you

kind of thrilled to the idea that you are working for a special place that produced or distributed wonderful movies. And the big studios were not

producing and distributing the same quality of movies as Harvey was. So, it was a thrilling thing for your career.

And also, one of the things that stood out about Miramax -- and this is actually part of the complexity of writing about Harvey Weinstein, one of

the things that stood out is that if you went to work at Miramax, you had a real shot of doing things in your 20s you would never do in a studio until

you were in your 40s and 50s. So, it was a great upwardly mobile place to be.

And you feared him so much, you put up with that abuse because who knows what he would do to you? I mean, he could actually throw an urn at you, 10-

pound urn, as he did to Mark Gill, his president. But he could also embarrass you in the press.

And in one case, he had one of his young assistants who he left on the highway at night, let him out of the car. Get out of the car, and on a

highway all by himself. So, Harvey was as volatile creature who instilled fear in people.

GOLODRYGA: Two tools that seem to have helped him keep up with his predatory behavior were NDAs and enablers, I would say. I don't know how

else to describe them. People around him who had a sense of what was happening but perhaps convinced themselves that instead of this being

sexual assault, it was sexual harassment, and thus, it may have just been a misdemeanor and not a felony.

What did you take away from the role of NDAs and hushing and silencing women for years, and those around him that had a sense of what was going

on?

AULETTA: Start with the NDAs. The women who signed NDAs were afraid of Harvey, and they were afraid if they went forward and exposed him, Harvey

would attack them and they would be perceived as ambitious people who were seeking publicity and would be harmed in their careers. So, they kept

quiet.

Well, they were afraid or they were in denial, this never happened to me, or it's my fault. And one of the big challenges in the trial, and -- which

I was there every day, was that the district attorney -- the prosecutors had to demonstrate that even though the women kept -- in many cases, kept

in touch with Harvey after he abused them.

They were nevertheless acting the way many rape victims often act. And they had -- Dr. Barbara Ziv, a psychologist, testified that 40 percent of the

women who are rape victims keep in touch with the rapist. So, that's one thing.

The other thing, when you talk about the enablers, I mean, clearly, people knew or should have known. And in the book, I identify many people who knew

and -- but also many who didn't know would tell me when I interviewed them two things, they would either say, we knew he cheated on his wife, but we

didn't know he raped and abused women, or they would say, I'll talk to you, but don't quote me because I don't want people know I worked for Harvey

Weinstein.

GOLODRYGA: Wow. Well, the dam finally broke. He was sentenced to 23 years in prison. He was found guilty on two counts. He could spend the rest of

his life in jail. I am just curious, as you were there in the courtroom with him, what, if anything, surprised you? Did you sense that there was

any remorse as he was taking all of this in?

[13:35:00]

AULETTA: No. I think -- you know, I tried to -- one of the things I wanted to ask him, and I did in an e-mail exchange, we had e-mail exchanges when

he was in prison, I wanted to ask him, Harvey, when you put your head on the pillow at night after raping, say, Jessica Mann, who was one of the

women who testified in the trial, how did you explain to yourself what you had just done to Jessica Mann?

Harvey never answered that question. But I think if he did, he would say something consistent with what he said in his defense, which is, she wanted

something from me, a career in movies. I wanted something from her. It was a consensual relationship. It was a trade.

GOLODRYGA: The book is called "Hollywood Ending." A lot of explosive revelations and details in this book.

Ken Auletta, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it.

AULETTA: My pleasure.

GOLODRYGA: Well, as more is revealed about the inner workings of Trump's White House, our next guest is lifting the lid on the moral divisions

within the Republican Party.

In his new book, "Why We Did It," Tim Miller explores his involvement with the GOP and how many political staffers justified the new brand of

politics. He joins Walter Isaacson to discuss the effects of Trumpism.

And finally, a glimpse into infinity. The wait is finally over. This is incredible. NASA has revealed the first images by the most powerful space

telescope ever, the James Webb Telescope, which took nearly 20 years and $10 billion to complete.

Take a look at these images. Using infrared light, which is invisible to the human eye, these pictures show a stellar nursery where stars are born,

the interactions between planets and galaxies that date back billions of years, almost all the way to the big bang.

The first image was released yesterday and showed thousands of distant galaxies in a patch of sky, that according to NASA, is approximately the

size of a grain of sand held at arm's length. These are amazing images, unlocking more of the universe's secrets. And I have to say, money well

spent.

Well, that is it for now. You can always catch online, on our podcast and across social media. Thank you so much for watching and goodbye from New

York.

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