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Amanpour
Interview with Ukrainian Minister of Strategic Industries Alexander Kamyshin; Prime Minister Netanyahu Holds News Conference after Hostage Deaths; Netanyahu Says He Spoke with Some Hostage Families; Netanyahu on Importance of Philadelphi Corridor; Interview with Mother of Hostage Romi Gonen Meirav Leshem Gonen. Aired 1-2p ET
Aired September 02, 2024 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:00:00]
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, and welcome to "Amanpour" from Kyiv. Here's what's coming up.
Ukraine bombarded as it pushes into Russia's cursed region. My report on cutting edge technology that's providing a lifeline in this war. And I
speak to Ukraine's Minister for Strategic Procurement, Alexander Kamyshin.
Then, pain and anger on Israel's streets after the recovery of six hostages killed in Gaza. Bianna Golodryga speaks to Meirav Leshem Gonen, whose
daughter Romy is still held there.
Also, ahead, a far-right surge in Eastern Germany. We explore what's behind it and what it means for Ukraine and beyond.
Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in Kyiv, where children have returned to school for the start of another year in the
throes of war. At least four people have been injured in Russian strikes this morning, three of them here in the capital, which Ukraine's Air Force
says was the main target of this latest barrage.
The foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, says that his country is being, quote, forced to fight with its hands behind its back. Once again, urging allies
to lift restrictions on the use of long-range weapons. It's as Russian forces pushed towards the strategic town of Pokrovsk. And across the
border, Ukraine is almost four weeks into its surprise incursion into Russia's Kursk region.
Over the weekend, Kyiv carried out one of its biggest ever drone attacks on Russia, hitting a refinery and a power station. In this multi-pronged war,
accelerating technology to respond is critical. Like, for instance, ramping up the production and the military use of land drones and other kinds of
drones.
Here in Kyiv, I've been visiting a privately owned factory that's directing its efforts towards the Ukrainian army. And also, I've been assessing the
current state of the 30-month war with residents here.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR (voice-over): The evidence keeps growing, even here in Kyiv, far from the front, memorials occupy ever more space. And since Ukraine's
incursion into Russia's Kursk region, the war has returned to the cities with a vengeance. Last night, ballistic missiles hit Kyiv, destroying
infrastructure, tripling the energy grid, raising fears.
Ukrainian journalist Nataliya Gumenyuk tells me it's been a tradeoff.
NATALIYA GUMENYUK, UKRAINIAN JOURNALIST: There is no discussion whether the Kursk was right. But the question is how much we lose in Pokrovsk, in
the Donbas. It boosted the morale among the military. It showed that, you know, Ukraine can do something.
AMANPOUR (voice-over): Just outside Kyiv, there's an urgent race against time in this factory that's building unmanned vehicles or land drones,
because aerial drones make the front lines ever more dangerous for soldiers on both sides.
Here's CEO and former special forces officer Oleksandr Biletskyi.
OLEKSANDR BILETSKYI, CEO, SHERP: That's why we should have technologies to kill more Russians with the purpose and using the new technologies, like
using drones, using robots. That's it.
AMANPOUR (voice-over): And these all-terrain, all-weather drones are meant to save more Ukrainians. On the front, they can be controlled from as far
as three kilometers away. Here, we follow along behind. They can deliver everything from ammunition to water and also remove the wounded from the
front lines Their production has ramped up since the full-scale invasion of 2022 and the company insists Ukraine must develop more technologically
advanced systems for asymmetrical warfare to counter Russia's overwhelming manpower. And they want to be much more self-sufficient for the long haul.
Thirty months into this grinding conflict, with the prospect of international support fading, are Ukrainians now ready to negotiate an end
to it all?
GUMENYUK: It's really a matter of survival. We can't allow them to control our territory. And what they suggest is unconditional capitulation.
AMANPOUR: Surrender, yes.
GUMENYUK: Unconditional surrender or occupation.
[13:05:00]
AMANPOUR (voice-over): And here, Nataliya quotes her friend and Ukraine's Nobel laureate who warns that occupation is not peace, it's just a
different way of war
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR (on camera): And they vow to fight on of course. Joining me now here in Kyiv is one of the key figures tasked with boosting Ukraine's
defense industry. He's Alexander Kamyshin. He was formerly CEO of Ukrainian Railways and now, he's minister for strategic industries. Welcome back to
the program.
Tell me first what you -- how you asses and analyze the barrage that was incoming this morning at 5 30 a.m., first day of school?
ALEXANDER KAMYSHIN, UKRAINIAN MINISTER OF STRATEGIC INDUSTRIES: Good evening, Christiane. Welcome back to Kyiv.
AMANPOUR: Thank you.
KAMYSHIN: This barrage is not very different from what we had before many times. Actually, the defense industry shelled twice a week, so we keep
running no matter what happens around.
AMANPOUR: What does all of this say? This -- I mean, we see that there's an attempt really to get at the cities, a lot of the energy infrastructure.
We see that Ukraine is hitting energy infrastructure and refineries in Russia. Where do you think this is headed? How does this help the war
effort?
KAMYSHIN: As my president said, we're bringing the war back to where it came from, back to Russia, and I'm quite happy because we showed -- we
proved that we've got locally designed, locally developed, locally produced long-range capabilities, and they fly very well around Russia.
AMANPOUR: OK. So, you are partly responsible for procuring this. So, tell me about these long-range capabilities. Is it another version of drone?
What is it that's hitting those refineries? I mean, it was close to Moscow this weekend.
KAMYSHIN: We've got drones, we've got missiles that can go as deep as 1.5 thousand kilometers inside Russia. And you've seen that it works well.
AMANPOUR: Do you not worry that's in itself going to escalate and cause another winter of real hardship here in your country?
KAMYSHIN: Well, we are living through 922nd day of the big war. And I am sure that we will live through. And trust me, it's a challenge, but we
proved that we can stand. We will stand.
AMANPOUR: So, there is a debate. There are questions and comments about the surprise incursion into the Russian Kursk area and also, about the
simultaneous push now from Russia, even more accelerated on Pokrovsk. I first want to ask you about that because we know that it's an important
strategic hub. It's a railway area, used to be head of the railways here. I mean, you really kept them going throughout the war. What would happen if
Pokrovsk was lost?
KAMYSHIN: For me, it's important to give enough capabilities to my army to make them stand as long as they can. In Kursk, you know, that western
partners don't like very much when we use western things on the other side. So, it's even more important to produce more to supply to the army in the
Kursk area, locally produced things.
AMANPOUR: We just had a report. We went to, as I said, a private factory run by a former, you know, special forces officer, and he was saying that
what you all have to do is really make up for lost time, that there was a lot of time, many, many months, where you could have been ramping up your
own domestic production, and that now, it's really, you know, urgent, whether it's land drones, as we saw, whether it's what you're talking
about, the air drones, whether what your president said, ballistic missiles you're trying to develop here now.
Do you feel you've lost time depending and waiting on the NATO allies to help you?
KAMYSHIN: I'm running defense industry for only one and a half years, and you probably haven't heard much about the industry before. Also, we got
quite a strong defense industry back in Soviet Union. It was neglected for a few decades. Finally, you've seen in the last year that we are capable to
produce enough and capable to produce quite a wide range of things.
This year, we produce, finally, twice less than we could because of lack of funding. Next year, the capabilities are three times higher than potential
funding we have. That's why it's even more important to get enough financial support from our partners, because it's quite embarrassing to be
capable to produce, meanwhile not having enough funds.
AMANPOUR: You know, it's interesting what you say, that Ukraine used to be the heart of the Soviet defense industry. So, you have a lot of experience
and expertise. Is that right?
[13:10:00]
KAMYSHIN: For me, it was complicated, but we've done it. We got back to producing. And we proved that we are capable to produce enough. That's why,
again, having enough funding, having enough fuel, we can make this car run really fast.
AMANPOUR: Your foreign minister today essentially again said that you're being forced or the forces here are being forced to fight with, you know,
their hands tied behind their backs. Do you feel that way too? Do you feel that until you get this up and running in sufficient quantities that you
really need to be allowed to use the weapons that are coming in from abroad to its maximum capability?
KAMYSHIN: Even not considering the restrictions on the western supply limitations, we proved and we opened that to all our partners that we're
capable to produce more things locally. All we need is enough funding for that. That's why, indeed, it's right, as my minister of foreign affairs
said, it feels like fighting with tight hands.
AMANPOUR: When you say you need the funding, you keep saying that, do you think now you need funding more than just being sent weapons and
ammunition?
KAMYSHIN: Definitely. Because before when -- before we proved that we're capable to produce, funding would not help much. At this point where we
prove and we show that we're capable to produce much more, definitely, funding is the limitation.
AMANPOUR: So, you know, you speak as if this is going to go on for not just another week or another month or another six months, that this is
going to go on for a long time.
KAMYSHIN: Again, living through 922nd day in Kyiv, where they promised to take over in three days, trust me, we're ready to fight as long as it
takes.
AMANPOUR: I know that you're the guy in charge of defense procurement and strategic industries, but one of the strategic, you know, pieces of this is
manpower. The Russians just have more people than you do. They just do. And as yet, you don't have the full-scale conscription, recruiting, and all the
rest of it.
Let's say you get to build all these weapons. What if you don't have people to go to the front?
KAMYSHIN: I can't speak about the manpower on the front line, but I can speak about the manpower on the factories. Trust me, these people are iron
people, living under shelling, working 24/7. And meanwhile, standing and fighting. That's something that really deserves respect.
AMANPOUR: And do you think that there's a bit of a division between those who have -- you know, families who've sent their people to the front lines
and those who haven't? Do you think there's a bit of -- what is the holdup?
KAMYSHIN: Trust me, fighting on the front line is really heavy. Working on the factories is heavy as well. My president said, you either fight on the
front line or work in the factories. It's a big war. We can't stand aside. That's why it's really a challenge to get the best people on the factories.
But at this point, we got enough smart people. We proved that we got enough engineers that are capable. And it's also a war of engineers as well. We
proved that we are capable, we are creative, and we are hardworking.
AMANPOUR: And, you know, just finally, do you think that -- your president has talked about a four-point victory plan, he calls it, that he wants to
present to the United States, and officials have gone to the U.S.? Can you share with us any of these details?
KAMYSHIN: We've got preparations, and we give them to my president, and I believe I would be there with him as well. So, we've got something to show
how we --
AMANPOUR: So, you're going to Washington?
KAMYSHIN: Yes. We plan to go together.
AMANPOUR: So, can you tell us what you'll be saying?
KAMYSHIN: Everything we deliver would be presented by my president.
AMANPOUR: So, you're not going to tell me here tonight?
KAMYSHIN: Never.
AMANPOUR: Minister Kamyshin, thank you so much indeed for joining us.
KAMYSHIN: Thank you, Christiane.
AMANPOUR: Thank you. So, let me hand over to my colleague, Bianna Golodryga, in New York, with the rest of the day's news. But, Bianna, it's
been really interesting to be here for these -- you know, just not yet a couple of days and to see the state of play and just to listen to this
senior minister talk about what's coming up next.
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, and it's notable that he said he's going to be traveling to Washington, D.C. Their defense minister was just there
having meetings with officials here and their counterparts reportedly asking for the use of long-range weapons inside of Russia.
Christiane, I wanted to ask you in your interview with the journalist there, Nataliya, something stood out to me and she said regarding the Kursk
invasion and incursion there into Russia, the first time since World War II, any country has invaded Russia, she said that boosted morale among the
military. I'm curious what you're hearing the reaction from that is with regards to morale among everyday Ukrainians there in Kyiv.
[13:15:00]
AMANPOUR: You know, quite similar and yet, they're clear-eyed about it. They know that it isn't an end in itself. They hope that it's a means to an
end, and they really do hope that it has at least shaken things up. I even spoke to -- you know, as you saw, the CEO of the factory, and he said that
this is also designed to try to change the calculation or affect people around Putin in Moscow, in the Kremlin, to try to show that, you know, just
as they were counting Ukraine out, so to speak, you know, this year has not gone well at all in terms of, you know, the front line, that they could do
something that was a surprise.
Now, clearly, it hasn't changed fully the dynamic on the ground. And maybe the military believed that it would draw Russian forces away from the most
fiercely contested bits of the front line in the east, but it actually hasn't. And Putin has, you know, started, you know, for want of a better
word, to play psychological warfare, trolling the Ukrainians, saying, see, they tried this and they failed. But he does that all the time.
Here, you hear that they did this, they wanted to show the west that they could do it. They wanted to show that they could really put their weaponry
and their ammunition to good use. They wanted to show that they have the manpower to do this kind of operation, and they're still there and they're
still hanging on in Kursk. Maybe they think it might be for a little bit of diplomatic negotiating, a bargaining chip, so to speak. But they kind of
see the Pokrovsk thing and the Kursk thing as somewhat, you know, two different sides of the same coin.
Then, they know that Pokrovsk is under huge pressure, and they probably think they're going to lose it, and they are retreating at the moment. But
then, they say Bakhmut was meant to be a key logistical hub, and we've sort of survived that. So, it's a very long game as I'm beginning to realize
more and more the longer I, you know, come here and the more I talk to people and see what's going on. There's no quick end to this.
GOLODRYGA: One of the analysts that I speak with, the Russia-Ukraine expert, says that Ukraine likely would have been better positioned for an
incursion like this next year. But there are concerns among Ukrainians, I'm curious to hear, if you're hearing that, how closely they're following
politics here in the United States and what impact the impending election, the presidential election, may or may not have had on this decision to
follow through with this incursion now.
AMANPOUR: Well, I think that's, you know, really a part of it. They want to show whoever is going to be the next U.S. president that actually this
is not good money after bad. This is not weapons that are just going into a black hole, that they are trainable, that they are capable, and that they
are using their weapons. And frankly, they want to use them even, you know, with less restrictions. So, I think that's very clear. That's a very clear
message.
They -- you know, they can't affect the outcome of this election, but they want to be sure that whoever is elected in the United States they keep
supporting an ally who can actually show that they have proven to be good custodians of this effort and this support and of the great, you know,
alliance that has been, you know, created to support Ukraine.
But I will say, I mean, you're right. There are many questions, including by opponents of the current government, as to why they did this now, why
they didn't wait, as you say, and why they, as the critics say, leaving Pokrovsk sort of basically undefended. So, I've given you both sides of the
argument.
And there is a debate here. There's no doubt about it. There's a debate in the press. There's a debate amongst people. There's probably a debate
amongst, you know, various different political factions. But as I say, you know, they believe that they are going to keep fighting. And that as much
asymmetrical warfare as they can, you know, muster, as much asymmetrical technology and weapon systems, like just the ones that we saw, it might not
look like much, but it does actually make a difference on the front lines.
And it's -- as I say, it's really a long, long war. And I think mobilization also is a very, you know, touchy subject. I've heard and read
and listened to analysts who collected data, and what they've said is that the people of Ukraine are not against conscription and mobilization, but
they want their defense ministry, they want their president and others to tell them what it would mean, is it, you know, deployment forever or is it,
you know, a finite, I don't know, one year, two years?
What about, you know, how to care for them and their families should anything happen to them? You know, all of those kinds of -- they want more
clarity on what actually, you know, conscription means for them and for their families. And I think that's -- you know, that's legitimate as I was
told. You know, in a democracy, you've got to -- that's how you have to behave. And you can see the difference between how Ukraine treats its
people and how Russian -- Russia treats its fighters, just by throwing, you know, essentially, you know -- you know, I hate to say it, but, you know,
fodder it --
[13:20:00]
GOLODRYGA: Cannon fodder.
AMANPOUR: Yes, into the meat grinder. It's horrendous.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. Well, listen the length of this war already, as Minister Kamyshin told you, 922 days. They are counting.
AMANPOUR: Yes.
GOLODRYGA: And the manpower disparity really is an issue between Russia and Ukraine. It is so important to have you there now, this week.
Christiane, you have very important interviews coming up for us this week as well. So, thank you so much. We'll be watching all of it and covering it
here.
AMANPOUR: Yes. Thanks, Bianna.
GOLODRYGA: Meantime, coming up next, as grief and fury overwhelm Tel Aviv after six hostages were killed in Gaza, I speak with the mother of Romi
Gonen, whose daughter is still being held by Hamas.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: Welcome back. In Israel, it is a day of mourning and anger at the funeral of Hersh Goldberg-Polin, one of the six Israeli hostages whose
bodies were recovered from Gaza this weekend. His mother said she hopes her son's death will be a turning point.
We want to take you now to Prime Minister Netanyahu, who is speaking in a press conference, and we will follow this for you as well.
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): Against the evil axis of Iran, the first conditions for victory in this existential
war. It is us being united. We have to be united as one person against a cruel enemy who wants to eliminate all of us without any exceptions, right
and left, religious and secular people, Jews and non-Jews.
We found out -- we discovered not only the 7th of October, but throughout the war, but even more so in the horrible massacre in the execution of six
of our hostages. Carmel Gat, Eden Yerushalmi, Hersh Goldberg-Polin, Alexander Lobanov, Almog Sarusi and Ori Danino. May God avenge their
(INAUDIBLE).
[13:25:00]
Over the last 24 hours, I've been on the phone with a few of the families of the hostages. And while we were talking, I looked at the pictures of
these holy spirits and my heart and the heart of the nation broke.
You can see the light emitted from their faces. You hear about their life stories, and this light is shut. This innocence is gone by the cruel hand
of monsters. I told the families, and I repeat and say this evening, I'm asking for your forgiveness that we didn't manage to bring them back alive.
We're very close, but we couldn't make it.
And I repeat tonight, Israel is not going to ignore this massacre. The Hamas will pay a heavy price for this, a very heavy price. In the war
against the evil axis in this specific war against Hamas. And up in the north as well. We've set four goals to eliminate Hamas, to bring all of our
hostages back, to secure that Gaza is not going to be a threat over Israel, and to return safely our residents in the north.
Three out of those goals, they go through one place, the Philadelphi Corridor. This is Hamas lifeline. And I want to take a few minutes to
understand what the significance, the meaning of the Philadelphi Corridor is. What is the meaning for the security of Israel? Why is it important to
make sure that the 7th of October is not going to repeat itself, as the Hamas promised that it would do.
I want to show you what we had throughout the years until we went out of Gaza. You can see the Gaza Strip. The distance from Tel Aviv or Be'er Sheva
is not great, but we had an international border from the sea to Eilat. That was the international border of the State of Israel.
When you look at it, zoomed in, you can see that all these borders are ours, Ashkelon, Sderot, the kibbutzim, Kerem Shalom and at the bottom, the
Philadelphi Corridor. They're all under our control.
What happened when we left Gaza, what happened, that the borders are stealing our lands. But once we left, and we left the Philadelphi Corridor,
Philadelphi Corridor is the border between the Gaza Strip and Egypt. And once we left it, there's no barrier there against infiltration of arms and
weapons. And means for digging tunnels, all with the support of Iran. All these things entered Gaza. And Gaza turned into a great threat over the
State of Israel, because there was no barrier in the Philadelphi Corridor. That's what happened.
And now, I'm being asked, if it was so bad, why didn't he take it over? Why didn't he take it back? And the answer is that we've always tried -- we
always tried immediately after we left Gaza in 2005. It continued even after that, even under Mubarak rearming Gaza. And we fought them.
[13:30:00]
In a few wars, I led some of them, we fought it, and this thing, of course, brought to the fact that we eliminated thousands of terrorists and their
leaders, but there was no international legitimacy to enter, to conquer Gaza, to take over the Philadelphi Corridor again. There was no
international -- national or international agreement, the significance of the Philadelphi Corridor.
I told -- I said about that also 20 years ago when Sharon said that we'll leave Gaza in 2003. On the 26th of March, 2004, I said what my demands
were, the minimal demands, and I said, my first condition is controlling all the entrances to Gaza, the Philadelphi Corridor that separates Gaza,
the Gaza Strip and Egypt, is not going to be evacuated. If Israel is going to withdraw from the Philadelphi Corridor, Gaza will become a terror
enclave.
When I resigned the government, when I found out that they're going to uproot the Jewish settlements in Gaza, I gave my resignation letter to
Sharon, the prime minister, and I said, as a minimum, I demanded that we will keep the Philadelphi Corridor in our hands. This is not a new thing.
It was clear that if we don't have the corridor, there will be rearming, there will be the creation of a monster.
The evil axis needs the Philadelphi Corridor. And for that reason, we must keep control of the Philadelphi Corridor. This is why Hamas insists that we
are not going to be there. And this is why I insist that we are going to be there.
The presence along the Philadelphi Corridor is a strategic thing. We have to make it clear that we're there. And I'm being told, OK, we'll withdraw
for 42 days and then we'll come back. But we've been there already. We were there when we left Lebanon. People said that, you know, we'll be able to go
back there when the first rocket is going to be launched. But there's no international support for that.
We were told that when we left the strip, we were told what is the problem with the first rocket we're going to re-enter Gaza. 20 years has passed --
have passed, and we haven't re-entered Gaza. Anyone who says that there's no problem re-entering, they're wrong. There is a problem. It's not an easy
thing to do. It's not a military tactic thing, it is a question of a huge international pressure that is put on the State of Israel. If we withdraw,
we will not be able to go back.
I can tell you how difficult it was to overcome the international pressure to enter Rafah. Look what we had to pay. There was a huge immense pressure
at the ICC. A weapon embargo, we paid with the lives of our soldiers, but this is nothing compared to what's going to happen if we're going to
withdraw, and everyone understands the significance of that.
What everyone wants is for us to end the war. And this corridor is different from all the other axis, it's central. It's instrumental to our
future. It has a huge significance to us. But for the world, who wants us to end the war, the last thing the world wants is for us to enter the
Philadelphi Corridor.
[13:35:00]
Why do we need to get into this trap? We are being told that it's possible, I am saying that this is not going to bring the hostages back. On the
contrary, I want to tell you that when we entered Philadelphi, only then we felt a change for many months. After the first deal, Hamas didn't budge.
They insisted on declaring in advance that we're going to end the war. And the first fracture -- and obviously, this is not going to lead to a deal.
But the first fracture came when we entered Rafah and we took over the Philadelphi Corridor, the Hamas' lifeline, all of a sudden, they started to
talk differently.
After that, they withdrew a little bit when they thought Iran might save them or Hezbollah might save them. Now, their hope that international
pressure might help them. But the fact is that the first change and the effective change towards a deal that might be possible came actually from
taking over the Philadelphi Corridor. But it's withdrawal, if we go out, we're not going to come back.
I said, we're not going to withdraw. I was quoted of saying that if we're going to leave for 40 -- what I do know that if we are going to leave for
42 days, we're not going to be able to go back for 42 years after we've sacrificed and fought, after we captured them. That's what can give us back
the hostages and that's also what prevents smuggling of hostages above ground, over ground. They can smuggle them to Sinai. They cross the border
and they disappear. They can all of a sudden show up in Iran or Yemen.
After we got all this, we're not going to give up on that. We're not going to get ourselves into a trap. This is a political strategic question.
Security officials yesterday said that, you know, we can withdraw from the strip and then go back. I think that after the 7th of October, we know we
need to be a little bit more cautious about our assessments and to understand all the ingredients that are part of that.
I regret to say that we are committed, fully committed to achieving a deal and to advance a deal. We haven't seen the Hamas feel the same. We've
agreed to the route that Biden presented on the 31st of May. We agreed to what they called final bridging proposal on the 16th of August. Hamas
declined the first and also the second proposals. Its representative said yesterday, withdrawal from all of the strip, the end of the war, keep us in
control. That's their problem.
They budged a little, but once they think that there's a weakness within us, or some kind of pressure that's going to break us, they go back. And
that's why we're not going to withdraw from the Philadelphi Corridor. The significance of Philadelphi Corridor is cardinal. Also, to bring back the
hostages, but also to make sure that the Hamas is going to be completely destroyed and that Gaza is not going to be a threat over Israel. And we
clarified this is our stance.
But from within us, voices have started to be heard within the cabinet, ministers in the government who said, no problem, we can withdraw, although
we've already agreed that we can't. And that's why I had to bring it to the cabinet formally to make sure that it's clear that we are not going to
compromise, there are things that we're not going to compromise on.
I am flexible when I -- when it's possible to be flexible. But I'm inflexible when I have to insist on things. And that's something that we
all have to insist on.
[13:40:00]
The evil axis needs Philadelphi Corridor -- the Philadelphi Corridor. We need to have it under our control. Therefore, after we received the
cabinet's decision -- we agreed in the cabinet, I was shocked. I was simply shocked because I heard from within us that people say that we can
withdraw. But when was it said? After we were massacred, after they murdered six of our hostages, what kind of message is it giving to Hamas?
The message is murder us and we will compromise.
It is legitimate during discussions for ministers to say what they think. Anyone knows the truth, I encourage everyone to say their opinions. I don't
block anyone. On the contrary. But once the decision has been made, everyone needs to follow it. Membership in the cabinet is not have it your
way. Once an agreement has been -- the message that we will change a strategic agreement, a vital strategic agreement is a horrible message.
It's a boost for terrorism and for more murders, and that's why it's not going to happen. It's simply not going to happen.
Hamas, of course -- Hamas thinks that it is going to happen, as long as they see how divided we are. By the way, it's not a new thing. That's --
there has been their tactic. That's what we want to happen. The IDF is at the Philadelphi -- on the Philadelphi Corridor. Hamas wants us to -- Hamas
wants us divided, weakened, and defeated ultimately.
This is a document that was found in a Hamas tunnel. It was found by our soldiers. In the media, they said that it was Sinwar. I can't say. But it
is senior members of Hamas. This is the original document in Arabic and this is the translation. To increase the distribution of pictures and
videos of hostages because of the psychological pressure that they create. To do all we can to increase the psychological pressure on Gallant. To
continue the line that Netanyahu is responsible for what happened and to damage the Israeli narrative as if the ground action serves the return of
the hostages.
Word for word. This is Hamas' strategy. They want to divide us. They rely on an internal division. They think that most of the people in Israel are
going to follow that. But Hamas is wrong. I said at the time, when there was an argument, do you remember that, at day of need, we will all enlist.
We will all be mobilized. We will all fight together. That's what I said.
Hamas creates the same illusion kind that we are going to surrender --
GOLODRYGA: All right. We've been listening to a press conference from a very defiant Prime Minister Netanyahu who opened by offering his
condolences to the six hostages who were murdered by Hamas over the weekend naming them, asking their families for forgiveness that they couldn't bring
them home alive. And he went on to say that Hamas will pay a heavy price. That's the remainder of his speech has centered around his defiance that
the IDF, that Israel will remain along the Philadelphi Corridor. That's a quarter that divides Israel there, Gaza and Egypt there. And this has been
an issue of contention within the Israeli government, specifically as of late.
[13:45:00]
The last few days, there has been extraordinary reporting about disagreements and public disputes between the prime minister and his
defense minister, and the defense establishment there in his government. The latter there provided, pushing like the United States and the Biden
administration for a deal that Israel had agreed to in May that didn't include the perimeters of keeping the IDF there along the Philadelphi
Corridor. Now, the prime minister saying that is essential for keeping Israel safe and that he will not budge on that decision on that vote that
was taken within the cabinet on Friday. Incidentally, the defense minister, the only cabinet member who did not vote in favor of that.
And he also said that any sort of withdrawal that would be just six -- 42 days, saying Israel would be back there for another 42 years, and that's
something Israel cannot afford. When the question-and-answer section begins, we will bring that back to you.
But now, I want to turn to the morning -- excuse me, we're going to now go back to the question-and-answer session with the prime minister and then go
to our next guest.
NETANYAHU (through translator): It has to be the day after Hamas, and there is no alternative to the destruction of Hamas. If one day there will
be another body that can look after Gaza, so be it. But right now, we have to be there and look after security and be of control of the borders to
prevent smuggling of weapons and arms that will threaten our existence. I think there's a big question that we're working on it at the moment.
We're very close to defeat Hamas, to destroy Hamas. People understand it now. But we still need to negate its governmental capabilities. We have to
find an alternative to the humanitarian aid. This is part of the day after.
As for what -- I don't know exactly what President Biden said. I just want to present the facts again on the 27th of April. Blinken referred to the
proposal, a generous proposal, an exceptionally generous offer that Israel gave on the 31st of May. As I just said, Israel agreed to the route that
was supported and presented by Biden, but Hamas declined.
On the 16th of August, Israel agreed. On the final bridging proposal, Hamas declined. On the 19th of August Blinken and said, Israel has agreed to the
American proposal. Now, Hamas needs to agree as well. On the 28th of August, the deputy head of CIA said, Israel showed seriousness -- Israel
was serious in the negotiations. Now, it's Hamas' turn. That was five days ago.
What happened over the last five days? One thing happened. They murdered six of our hostages in cold blood. So, after this horrible murder, I can't
believe that any serious person will come and say -- would come and say, now compromise more. You're not serious. Hamas is serious. I don't believe
something like that or anyone like that, anyone thinks that, and I don't believe that Biden really said that.
GOLODRYGA: All right. Well, Israel now counts 101 hostages currently remaining in Gaza and one of them is Romi Gonen, who was kidnapped at the
Novo Music Festival on October 7th. Her mother, Meirav Leshem Gonen, has been campaigning tirelessly for her daughter's release, and she joins me
now from Israel. Thank you so much, Meirav, for taking the time to speak with us.
I know you were listening to the Prime Minister there at that press conference as well. He began by offering his condolences to the families of
those six Israeli hostages who were murdered by Hamas over the weekend, and then went on to focus on some of the political details he says are
pertinent and must be included in any sort of deal that Israel will agree to going forward.
[13:50:00]
I'm just wondering from what you heard from the prime minister, did you get a sense that he was speaking to you, to the other 100 families who are
still waiting to hear about their loved ones and their fate in Gaza?
MEIRAV LESHEM GONEN, MOTHER OF HOSTAGE ROMI GONEN: I'm not sure he was speaking to us. I think he more tried to explain the way he's choosing to
act now.
And, you know, I'm a mother, and my daughter is one of the hostages in Gaza. One of the hostages that is still waiting for her government to take
her out of there. Exactly like the six hostages that were murdered just now, the six hostages, which is Eden, Ori, Carmel, Hersh, Almog, Alex, they
waited for us, for all of us, for the International Community and also United States since Hersh is a citizen of the United States and my
government to take them out. They waited. They waited for fear. They waited for Philadelphi. They waited for the army forces. They waited and they were
murdered.
My daughter is still in Gaza. She's still alive. I want her to be out of there alive and this is my request from for all of the International
Community, make sure that they will come back alive and the one that already murdered to come back for proper burial.
GOLODRYGA: What is your message to the prime minister now? You are not somebody involved in politics. We've spoken before. The last time we spoke,
it was May 6th. That was day 213. It is now 332 days that you have been without your daughter. She turned 24 years old on August 18th. Your focus
is on bringing her back and on bringing the other hostages back alive.
What is your message to the prime minister right now when you hear him basically airing public disputes, disputes that he's had behind closed
doors publicly amongst cabinet members?
GONEN: I think I wanted to speak to the International Community, which is important also in this agreement. This is something that we're doing
together, and I'm just asking why feel that fee (ph) is so important. It wasn't important for eight months. So, I asked the International Community
to check if this is so important, how they will take responsibility over that so Israel will not have to stay there and we will be able to take out
the hostages and still remain this border as quiet as possible.
I'm also asking if I understand that the International Community agreed on making a kind of a big wall to prevent those smugglers. This is something I
request also. I understand from President Biden that the deal he was offering did not included Philadelphi and that Prime Minister Netanyahu
agreed to that. I need my prime minister and the International Community to check what is right and what is wrong.
And how can it be that 332 days people are still held by Hamas and we are letting them die there, just letting them being murdered?
GOLODRYGA: Meirav, who, if anyone, at this point, do you trust to answer those questions for you? You talk about the International Community. You
know, President Biden says that he's going to be focused on this, to bring these hostages home, to put in a ceasefire his remaining time in office
here. You hear the words from the prime minister. You hear the defense minister saying that Philadelphi isn't a top priority, that they can go
back if they need to. The focus should be on the hostages. You're hearing so many different things. Where is your trust right now?
GONEN: I'm not sure it is important whom I trust. I think it is more important whom you trust, because you're abroad. It's not just you, sorry,
but you and the International Community, the -- who is -- whomever is dealing with the deal right now, I'm asking you, who do you trust? Because
I trust my people, my people, my citizens, the citizens of Israel. I believe in them. I believe in our strength and I know that we will be able
to hope -- to be together against any -- you know, any fight that we will have to have, but this is not something we can do.
[13:55:00]
This is a deal that is signed, not just between Israel and Hamas, this is between Israel and all the International Community against Hamas. So, I do
ask you, the one that needs to sign this agreement, who do you trust? And please tell me who can I be trusting? I want to trust the people that are
inside the deal right now, this is all of you, my prime minister and the negotiators.
GOLODRYGA: Listen, obviously, the onus is on Hamas. They are the perpetrators here who kidnapped your beautiful daughter and 250 more
innocent lives. And this could all end if they release these hostages right now.
But I will tell you who I trust, and that is mothers like yourself, mothers like Rachel Goldberg-Polin, who I know fight every single day to do
everything you can to not only tell the world how important it is to bring your loved ones home, but to tell us a little bit about them.
In these last few seconds, I just want to say, you've said all along that you have hope that she is alive, you know that she's alive. That she is
alive. I was even listening to a vigil last night for Hersh Goldberg-Polin, where Hatikvah, the national anthem called The Hope was played, and I know
that that is where our trust is right now and talking to family members like you who never stop hoping, who never stop fighting. And we are looking
forward to the day where you will be reunited with your beautiful Romi. Meirav --
GONEN: Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: Thank you for taking the time. Be well, stay strong.
GONEN: Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: And that is it for us for now. Thank you so much for watching, and goodbye from New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:00:00]
END
