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Amanpour
Interview with Lebanese Author and Human Rights Activist Joumana Haddad; Interview with "The Diplomat" Creator and Executive Producer Debora Cahn; Interview with "The Diplomat" Actress Keri Russell; Interview with Mississippi Black Women's Roundtable Executive Director Cassandra Welchlin. Aired 1-2p ET
Aired October 31, 2024 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:00:00]
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, and welcome to "Amanpour." Here's what's coming up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought coming out today and voting is one small away. I can maybe help influence the election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: More than 55 million Americans have already cast their vote. Now, Kamala Harris and Donald Trump are chasing any remaining undecided. We
get the latest.
And in Lebanon, nowhere is safe, no one is secure, says author and journalist Joumana Haddad. She joins us from Beirut to discuss the reality
on the ground and the prospects of a ceasefire.
Then --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can we find the home secretary? I'd like to be able to tell the ambassador whether her husband is alive or dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: -- Washington's woman in London gets the Hollywood treatment in "The Diplomat." We're joined by creator Debora Cahn and star Keri Russell
to talk twists and turns in season two.
Also, ahead --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASSANDRA WELCHLIN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MISSISSIPPI BLACK WOMEN'S ROUNDTABLE: Voting rights are still being suppressed here in the State of
Mississippi.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: -- getting out the vote in Mississippi. Cassandra Welchin, executive director of the state's Black Women's Roundtable, tells Michel
Martin how she's trying to increase turnout and counter suppression.
Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London.
The presidential cavalcades are hitting Nevada and Arizona as Kamala Harris and Donald Trump target key swing states just days before Tuesday's
election. Some good news came today for Democrats and the White House. New economic data showing inflation has cooled again and prices are climbing at
a slower rate compared to last year.
So, far across the United States, tens of millions of Americans have already cast their vote. And yes, you've probably heard this before, a lot,
but the election remains on a knife edge. So, what votes are still winnable and where are they?
Joining me now with the very latest is Jeff Zeleny. He's on the ground in Hartford, Wisconsin. Jeff, welcome. So, answer that question first. Are
there undecided still out there?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF U.S. NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Christiane, believe it or not, after millions and millions of dollars of television ads
and campaign visits, there are some undecided voters that we do still find in our conversations.
But they may be undecided for a couple different reasons. Some are undecided whether they will vote at all. They're fed up or not satisfied
with either candidates. Some are, though, here in the suburbs, or in an exurban suburb of Milwaukee, where some independents and even some moderate
Republicans are still trying to decide if Vice President Kamala Harris is suitable to them. They've decided against Donald Trump, but they are still
trying to see some more from her.
But look, by and large, I think most have decided, but there is still that sliver, and in these races where there's no clear leader, remarkably, in
any of the seven battleground states, those few voters actually can matter.
AMANPOUR: Do you think, Jeff, that the economy will play a big part in their decision? And what do you make of that new data that we just talked
about, which is presumably good news for the White House?
ZELENY: Sure. I'm not sure that any piece of new data at this point will change any minds, but the economy overall certainly will. And as we've been
driving around Wisconsin for several days this week, and certainly many times this year, gasoline is at the lowest price of any point during this
campaign. Groceries are not as high as they were. Do voters factor that in? Some may.
Inflation, of course, has been a driving issue in this campaign. Things are more expensive coming out of the pandemic. But clearly, the Democrats and
Vice President Harris must welcome the stronger economic news, but people are voting on their pocketbook issues, their kitchen table issues, and
certainly, some things are a little bit more expensive.
But, Christiane, as we talk to people, this is not as much of an issue driven campaign as it is on some other issues, like a decency, democracy.
So, it's not a 10-point plan necessarily. It's a feeling.
[13:05:00]
But I can tell you still, as we are days away from this election, this is the first presidential election in the U.S. since the Dobbs decision, and I
think that is one of the biggest drivers of many of the voters that we're talking to here as they make their decisions between Vice President Harris
and Donald Trump.
AMANPOUR: Well, so that's really interesting, because, clearly, Harris is appealing on that issue amongst many others, but so too now the Trump
campaign. And Trump himself I think is trying to reach out, it sounds like it anyway, to women. And I wonder what you make of what he said -- just the
latest thing he said. He declares he will quote, "protect women whether the women like it or not." And this comes a day after Nikki Haley, who, you
know, ran against him and now is a supporter, said that his campaign is making women uncomfortable.
What are you hearing from women about that, and what does that mean? Have you tried to -- have you figured out whether they like it or not?
ZELENY: Well, look, the ones who are in the rally -- actually, Donald Trump said that right here in Wisconsin. His base supporters, of course,
like most everything he says. But the challenge, of course, is he needs more than his base to win. He needs to reach out to some of those people
who are not at his rallies, who are not hanging on every word, and that is what is really sort of causing many moderate Republicans we're talking to,
Nikki Haley, of course, to cringe at the type of language he is using when talking about women.
One thing is clear. The gender gap in this presidential race is likely to be the highest that we have seen. Vice President Harris has strong support
from women. Donald Trump, of course, has stronger support from men.
But, you know, for men, abortion rights also an issue, but hearing the former president talk about women in that way, it's not something his
advisers often like to hear, but of course he does it all the same.
So, I think that that language, it's not helpful to the people who have not yet decided. And outside of his rally crowds, it's likely not helpful at
all.
AMANPOUR: Jeff Zeleny, thank you. And I have to say it's a beautiful fall day where you are. It's a great backdrop.
ZELENY: It sure is.
AMANPOUR: And there are also some rare green shoots of hope in the Middle East today. American envoys like the CIA director, Bill Burns, are in the
region, making another push for ceasefires between Israel and Gaza, with a deal to end the war in Lebanon potentially imminent. And it couldn't come
soon enough for civilians in that country.
Thousands of Lebanese people have been killed since Hezbollah and Israel began trading fire last year, and more than a million have been displaced.
In a recent piece for The New York Times, the Lebanese journalist and author, Joumana Haddad, says, this suffering is nothing new. In fact, they
have been forced to endure it for decades. And Joumana Haddad joins me now from Beirut. Welcome to the program, Joumana.
JOUMANA HADDAD, LEBANESE AUTHOR AND HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVIST: Thank you, Christiane. Many thanks for having me.
AMANPOUR: Well, we were so interested because you wrote this piece. I'm just going to -- you know, the title was "We Took Pride in Our Resilience,
Not Anymore." And Lebanon has always been known as sort of the plucky nation that managed constantly to rise like a phoenix from all the ashes.
But you say, I've witnessed so many wars and tragedies here that I sometimes feel 100 years old.
So, just let's start by you explaining why this one seemed so different and so much heavier than the last that you remember.
HADDAD: Well, as you know, Christiane, the last five years in Lebanon have been hellish enough. We had a popular uprising that did not amount to the
real change we were hoping for. We had an economic collapse that led people to lose their life savings to banks. We had a port explosion that literally
shattered most of our capital, and a political stalemate that's been suffocating the country for years and in which I have to say, Hezbollah was
playing a huge role.
And this is only our recent history. Starting 1975, we had a horrific civil war, a series of assassinations and explosions, several confrontations
between Israel and Hezbollah. And I can tell you many of us Lebanese are thinking now, you've got to be kidding me. We thought we had reached the
bottom of the pit already, but the pit seems to be bottomless. I mean, why can't we just live instead of surviving?
I'm sure -- I mean, Sisyphus at this point would say, enough is enough. I'm not climbing up that mountain with the rock on my shoulders again.
AMANPOUR: Do you think -- I mean, that sounds like you've all given up hope. You know, I just said, and the Americans and even the acting prime
minister in Lebanon that potentially for your country, there is an imminent ceasefire in the works.
HADDAD: Well, I mean, despite all the talk about a ceasefire and a potential agreement, like you said, the bombing isn't stopping and there's
a great deal of uncertainty about what's coming next. We already know the heavy price of war, but who knows what the price of a ceasefire will be?
Who knows which deals are now being struck under the table at our expenses as Lebanese? Certainly not us.
[13:10:00]
And also, I would like to say this, this is not a fight between good and evil, like both parties try to make it sound. This is a fight over power
and influence in the Middle East. This is a fight meant to teach a lesson to put the opposite party in its place. A fight meant to prove who's got
the strongest muscles. And instead of this fight happening fully on the lands of the two parties concerned, and I mean Israel and Iran, it is
mainly happening yet again on our land here in Lebanon.
I mean, Israel and Iran are hitting each other so gently and precisely that you think they are lovers having an argument. And most probably this is
what they are. Meanwhile, we are being arbitrarily destroyed. Thousands of innocent people are slaughtered, millions displaced, forced to live in
terror and insecurity. They are causing each other minor bruises while they are causing us full devastation. And I so want to tell them, and many
people as well, we are done being your sandbox or your playground.
AMANPOUR: Joumana, that is very impassioned and very colorful in terms of painting a picture of what you're feeling and what Lebanese civilians are
feeling. Tell me a little bit about -- you know, obviously the Israelis say that they're going after Hezbollah, but we know that areas -- you know,
hospitals are in some of the kill zone areas and they have been damaged and a lot of people have been killed. Journalists have been killed. What are
you seeing, I guess, different, maybe, than the last time Israel was at war in your country?
HADDAD: I mean, I believe that this time they are not to stop. I mean, I really -- I mean, we cannot afford the luxury of optimism, and maybe this
is where -- what I'm saying is coming from. But at the same time, I refuse to believe that there was no political alternative to this disaster that we
are going through.
I mean, Netanyahu keeps saying he wants to get rid of Iran's tentacles in the region, whether it's Hamas or Hezbollah or the Houthis. But why doesn't
he cut the head of the octopus directly instead? I'm sure he knows that if he only cuts the tentacles, new tentacles will grow again later. So, why
does he spend days and weeks consulting on how to hit Iran? But when it comes to hit Lebanon, he's hitting savagely and without hesitation.
As for Khamenei, he has the nerve and the insolence to keep telling the Lebanese to resist, to go on fighting the big, you know, Satan, that is
Israel and the U.S. So, basically, he's telling us to keep dying for him and for Iran. Why doesn't he fight them directly instead? These are the
questions that I'm hearing around me. Why doesn't he fight them for real instead of doing his laughable staged hits just to save face? Why doesn't
he send his men to die? Why doesn't he tell his women and children that it's OK to lose everything for the sake of the great cause? I think they're
all liars. Hippocrates and criminals, pardon my language.
AMANPOUR: You're talking specifically about Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who's the head of the Iranian regime. So, I want to pick up on that because, you
know, you don't often hear that, what you're saying, from civilians in that part of the world. And you just expressed real frustration with Hezbollah
just in a couple of answers before, and you implicated them heavily when in the disaster that's befallen your country. So, let me hear what it is
particularly that you're angry at Hezbollah about.
HADDAD: Well, I mean, not to mention, first of all, they have held the state hostage for more than two decades now. This is for one. And they have
dragged us into a war that is costing us too many innocent lives, too much destruction. And I want to also responsibilize the Lebanese politicians
because they also are responsible. They are completely ineffective, they have been ineffective, and they have been caught in the quagmire of self-
interest for so many years now instead of prioritizing welfare and relief now, debates are often about power plays and political gains.
I mean, Christiane, I'm so sad for my fellow countrymen and women. Sad for those who are against Hezbollah because they are getting their supposedly
break out from Hezbollah's violent grip through an even more violent entity. And who knows what will be coming after Hezbollah anyway, if the
Lebanese people and leaders don't get their shit together ASAP, and unite to build a strong democratic state that wouldn't allow for similar militias
to form and grow anymore.
[13:15:00]
You know, monsters tend to procreate quite fast, and their offspring turns out to be worse than they ever were. And on the other hand, I'm also sad
for the Lebanese who have always been hard Hezbollah supporters, because it doesn't seem like they have learned their lesson. They are still in full
denial mode, and they have also paid too high a price for their allegiance to Iran via its proxy Hezbollah. They have been brainwashed generation
after generation with the use of religion, you know, the most efficient brainwasher that ever existed to believe that life amounts to death and
that they should just close their eyes and surrender blindly to whatever they were being told. They truly believe that they are waging a righteous
and victorious fight.
But if victory is more -- is just a million displaced, whole towns destroyed, thousands dead and injured, then honestly, I would choose
defeat. This is not the price of war. This is the price of arrogance, of the arrogance of Hezbollah, of the ideological extremism of Hezbollah, of
the indifference towards the lives of innocents, and considering human beings mere wood for the fire, not to mention the -- a criminal Zionist
government that is waging an absolutely inhumane war on the Lebanese without any differentiation between those who are a mere pawns in the game,
let me say, just mere civilians who are innocent and those who are truly responsible for what we're going through.
AMANPOUR: You're obviously referring to the Israeli government. I just want to ask you something because, you know, you're so angry about the
various different, as you said, factions in your country that have held you hostage and prevented you from real stability.
You know the Israeli government talks about reshaping the Middle East and what they're doing in Lebanon and all over is -- can only be to the benefit
of the whole region. What would you say to that?
HADDAD: I doubt that. I doubt that. I mean, if the war ends and I'm not sure about that, I'm really worried about what's going to happen on the
inside, in Lebanon, because we will be left with a huge problem how to deal with Hezbollah, how to really rebuild with a -- I mean, let me say it a
political corrupt elite that is actually doing nothing and has done nothing to build a really strong state. We are now paying the price of what this
corrupt political elite has been doing for years.
So, this -- all this talk about reshaping the Middle East and making Netanyahu sound like the liberator of the Lebanese, it makes me even more
angry and frustrated. He is not a liberator. He is a criminal. I repeat, there should have been and there could have been a political solution to
this problem, to the problem in the region, but nobody wanted this.
And let's not forget that war is also a lucrative business. It's very cynical. Politics are very cynical and many people are making money out of
this. They are getting financial gains, power gains. And we have to admit it, we're not naive anymore. We know what's happening.
AMANPOUR: I want to ask you because you're -- personally, your family comes from a village in Southern Lebanon. It's called Yaroun. And it has
been incredibly hard hit. And I think Southern Lebanon, lots of parts of it, are believed to be Hezbollah strongholds.
We've got pictures of -- you know, it's been reduced to clusters of gray craters, according to Reuters. And your father is buried there, according
to his wishes. Do you know anything about what's happening to that village where you come from, your family comes from?
HADDAD: It almost doesn't exist anymore. It doesn't exist anymore and many other villages and towns are the same. Obviously, I mean, there are -- I'm
not denying the fact that there are tunnels under those towns and that there are weapons hidden under civilians, I'm not saying that, but is this
really the solution? I mean, Israel keeps saying that it's the only democracy in the Middle East. Is this how democracy works? Is this justice,
with this genocide after genocide?
[13:20:00]
I mean, let me tell you something, something that I'm hearing a lot from people around me. How many times can a person build and stand up ever after
being knocked down again and again? It's -- I have to say, it's unbelievable. It's un-intolerable the times that we have -- like Yaroun has
been destroyed so many times before, my father's village, and people are always expected to rebuild. But how many times can you rebuild your home
and your life and your dream -- and your ability to dream?
I know we have the reputation of being resilient. You mentioned that, because I talked -- spoked about it in my article. And that's like a cat,
our country has many lives. But we are tired, tired to get up and get knocked down again and again. I can feel this exhaustion all around me.
Many people have already left the country. Entire families. Beloved sons and daughters. Beloved grandsons and granddaughters. How many more? It's
like, again, we have to realize how much our geography in Lebanon is a curse to us.
AMANPOUR: Joumana Haddad, thank you so much for that visceral eyewitness experience and testimony. Thank you very much for joining us, Joumana.
And now, in a world full of challenges and crises, a blockbuster TV show is focusing on the people who are trying to put the fires out. "The Diplomat"
on Netflix centers on the U.S. ambassador to London and her team as they try to figure out who is behind a deadly plot that could trigger even worse
consequences. Here's a glimpse of Season 2.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Explosion in central London.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can we find the Home Secretary? I'd like to be able to tell the ambassador whether her husband is alive or dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you hear me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The American ambassador was nearly widowed last night. This was Russia. They've attacked us at sea and at home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can still leave me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'd leave me if I am.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you sleep with him?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you planning to?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Earlier, I spoke about the show with actress Keri Russell, a star of TV hits like "Felicity" and "The Americans," and also with
showrunner Debra Cahn, who previously wrote and produced episodes for hits like "The West Wing," "Grey's Anatomy," and "Homeland." Here's our
conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Keri Russell and Debora Cahn, welcome to the program.
KERI RUSSELL, ACTRESS, "THE DIPLOMAT": Thank you so much. It's so nice be here.
DEBORA CAHN, CREATOR AND EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "THE DIPLOMAT": It's great to be here.
AMANPOUR: Well, "Diplomat," first season was a massive success. Now, the second one is dropping. I guess I want to ask you first, Debora, since
you're the creator. What was it that inspired you?
CAHN: When I was working on "Homeland," we met with a lot of experts from all sorts of different fields, and one of them was a former ambassador who
had come in to talk to us a little bit about what it was like to work in Pakistan. We were writing about Pakistan, and her name was Beth Jones. She
was such a sort of mild mannered, unassuming person.
And started talking very quickly about what she does during a typical day at the office in Islamabad. And it just sounded like a superhero story. And
the amount of on the frontline action activity that she was doing, trying to meet with the warlord while bombs were dropping so that she could
deliver a message that might end the conflict, it just seemed like -- it was shocking that the story hadn't been told before.
AMANPOUR: And as you said, the State Department and diplomats tend not to get the credit that often they do, sometimes not, but sometimes yes. Keri,
you have been known on television for, you know, legendary things like "Felicity," "The Americans." You played a Russian spy in "The Americans,"
and now you are the U.S. ambassador to the U.K.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUSSELL: It'll end your career.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Worth it.
RUSSELL: No, actually, it isn't.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's the only power I've ever had.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: What made you want to do this? Is it because of, you know, the experience in "The Americans," or was there something more specific?
RUSSELL: Honestly, my entry point was just the writing. Debora -- the -- that very first episode that she wrote was just, yes, it was taking a peek
into the State Department, which I think we've said before and we really mean it, this show is meant to be a love letter to the State Department and
the people who do this incredible work. But it was like the specificity of this character that she created within that world.
You know, the messiness, the foul mouth, the crazy marriage. And so, all of the fun with the smarts and the political stuff, but the specificity of
this really messy, bossy, fun person.
[13:25:00]
AMANPOUR: The sort of subplot is that she's being groomed potentially to be the next vice president. So, I'm going to play a little clip because
it's starring -- this one has Allison Janney, the wonderful Allison Janney, as the vice president and your character, Keri, the ambassador, is talking
to her about -- kind of like an interview, a job application. Here we go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUSSELL: I'm no one's first pick, is my point. I know I have a lot to learn. If you have any advice, I'd love to hear it.
ALLISON JANNEY, ACTRESS, "THE DIPLOMAT": Billy says your DCM's got a lot of experience. He's been giving you a crash course?
RUSSELL: Yes.
JANNEY: What have you covered?
RUSSELL: He's fantastic. We haven't had a lot of time. So, far, he's sort of hung up on the packaging. I'd rather focus on policy and, I don't know,
the Senate.
JANNEY: Packaging?
RUSSELL: My clothing, my hair, which he finds particularly upsetting.
JANNEYL: He's right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: That is hilarious. I really didn't expect her to say, he's right. And I saw you laughing while you were, you know, anticipating that -
- you know, that punchline. Keri, you started by saying, you know, the messy hair, the clothes, the foul mouth. Who is this modeled on?
RUSSELL: Well, I don't -- I mean, it's an amalgamation.
CAHN: Yes.
RUSSELL: It's many people, many stories, books that Debora and all the writers have read. And, I mean, I think there are certain prototypes.
Debora can answer. But I think we have certain heroes, heroines that we really love.
CAHN: We thought that was topical. We didn't realize how topical it was going to be.
RUSSELL: A year and a half ago.
CAHN: A year and a half ago. And, yes, it's --
AMANPOUR: So, listen, I want to ask you because, you know, Allison Janney was in there. She, of course, was the beloved C. J. of the White House
spokesperson fame during "The West Wing." And you, Debora, cut your teeth, right, during "The West Wing" writing.
CAHN: I feel like so much of the way that I write was shaped around writing for Allison. There's so much that she can do. She can sort of do it
all at the same time. That created in me an interest in telling stories where comedy and tragedy and absurdity and embarrassment and optimism and
striving were all present in the same moment. There aren't a lot of people in the world who can do that. Keri is one of them.
And discovering her ability to juggle that material and sort of turn it into something magical is -- has been the great gift of this process. And
the idea of bringing Allison into that, bring sort of these two titans of the acting world together to work with each other and off each other seemed
like, way too good to be true, and I'm still shocked that it actually happened.
AMANPOUR: Yes, before I get to another clip, I just want to finish up with you, Debora, on "The West Wing" part, because I just interviewed Martin
Sheen a few weeks ago during the whole "West Wing" plus 25 celebrations. And he was saying, look, we really reflected our commitment to public
service. And at the time, we look back at heroes like John F. Kennedy, Dwight Eisenhower, you know, basically people who put country first, who
had served country who were party partisan, but not divisively and desperately like they are right now.
And did you feel that? And do you feel still that what you're doing may be a public service?
CAHN: Certainly, the people that we are writing about have made a lifelong commitment to public service. They are out there representing the United
States and the ideals that sometimes we live up to and sometimes we don't, whether or not they like what's happening at home, whether or not they
support the government that they're representing.
And that question, what do you do if you don't feel like your country is doing the right thing, but you still have to go out every day and face the
rest of the world and say, we're doing our best, please be patient with us as we go through our own growing pains as a nation? You know, how do you
continue to work when you're not sure your counterparts still trust your word?
AMANPOUR: So, much of the season, the first season, was about will they, won't they bomb Iran? I mean, talk about topical. The storyline was, you
know, about that, about Russian mercenaries who reared their ugly head, about diplomats and others trying to damage control around mad leaders.
You've touched a little bit on that.
Now, the U.K. PM is a very Boris Johnson-esque kind of guy in this series who uses all sorts of highfalutin rhetoric to conceal a lot of, you know,
deficits.
[13:30:00]
So, I want to play this, because this is a clip where ambassador, Keri, and her chief of station, i.e., the CIA station chief, discuss a big reveal of
that season one. Here we go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUSSELL: Lankov put together the attack on the carrier, but the Kremlin did not hire him. I think the prime minister did.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What?
RUSSELL: Of this country.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Spell them (ph).
RUSSELL: They are British police. This is a British hospital. Our people are not safe here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kate, you think the British prime minister --
RUSSELL: Ordered a strike on his own warship, which may or may not be connected to the bomb that just went off in his own city.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You think he ordered that too?
RUSSELL: I think the call is coming from inside the house. And three Americans, including my husband, just got blown up inside the house.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: So, inside the house is a bit of a sort of a term, right? A term of art. But it's -- you know, that's pretty dramatic, Keri.
RUSSELL: Yes, it is. I mean, you know, it is where it's a show full of suspense and drama and that's that whole arc. I mean, you know, we're -- it
is fictional, and we're not saying anything about British government currently. But, you know, it's exciting. And the way we've -- our show has
gone is it takes place over very little time, right?
CAHN: Yes.
RUSSELL: The first season was only a couple of --
CAHN: A couple of weeks.
RUSSELL: A couple of weeks.
CAHN: Three weeks. Yes.
RUSSELL: So, it allows for a lot of suspense and every little moment to be watched and articulated and that's the fun of it.
CAHN: Something that drew me to the material was the idea that I think when we look at global conflicts we're really, I think naturally as humans,
interested in finding somebody to blame and interested in looking at an enemy, and we have enemies in the world, but this story is based on the
idea that we think Iran has done something to us and we are not correct. We think Russia has done something and we are not correct. And it turns out
it's our best friends who are a lot like us. And we're interested in -- instead of kind of playing a blame game, looking at we -- what we ourselves
contribute to global conflict.
AMANPOUR: So, you talk about the -- you know, the British prime minister, now there's a new one, since you did season two, in fact, there's a new
one. And you got some advice and assistance from the current U.S. ambassador to the U.K., who famously, you know, tells, because this is
true, that she's been ambassador under, I don't know, at least four British prime ministers, in a pretty telescope period of time.
What did you get from her? And I know that -- well, do you know what, I'm actually going to play a soundbite of when I interviewed her about this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANE D. HARTLEY, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.K.: What's fascinating is Debora Cahn, who's the executive producer, when she started this, it was because
she wanted to get more women in foreign service. And that was her goal, and she told me -- when she first was approaching companies with this concept,
she said all of them said, oh, yes, but there won't be a female ambassador to the U.K. You have to change it.
AMANPOUR: And she was wrong.
HARTLEY: And she was wrong, exactly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Well, that that's cute. And yes, she's proven, you know, that she is, but very rare. I know you wanted to highlight that, but also, so
what specific kind of feedback did you get from Ambassador Hartley? And you went to Winfield House, or to the embassy, right, for this?
CAHN: I think what was most interesting was having conversations with her again about kind of what happened earlier that day, every time we met her,
and she would sort of casually drop how she had, you know, perhaps met with a dissident who was struggling to get a message out. It all is very mundane
for her, and every conversation could have been a story on the show.
AMANPOUR: And, Keri, because she is actually the opposite of your character. She is beautifully quaffed, looks great, fabulously dressed. And
like you, she's a real policy person.
RUSSELL: Absolutely. She knows her stuff. She is effortless. I mean, she is so graceful, so easy with every single different kind of person she
could have in her orbit. I mean, we've been to dinner with her where she just -- she knows everybody from, you know, the -- I think the last time I
dined with Ambassador Hartley, sports people were coming up, financial people who are in town from New York. She just juggles it all effortlessly
and, you know, she just moves back and forth in and out of it.
[13:35:00]
AMANPOUR: And just finally, you know, part of it does also show you all trying to do your best to save the world, save your country from mad
leaders, either at home or where you're stationed or abroad. What do you make of it happening right now? You know, it's going to drop four or five
days before the U.S. election.
CAHN: It's terrifying. I think, simply put, it's -- hopefully, it's sharing the idea that there are a lot of people who work for the
government. We worry -- I certainly worry that the decision that's going to be made in a few days is a world building or world ending one. But I think
what I find a lot of comfort in, as I learn about this world, is there are just thousands of people working for our government, most of whom have
great intentions and great values.
RUSSELL: Absolutely.
CAHN: And we are proud to have them out there every day doing a sort of a more of a retail version of American democracy in the world than perhaps
what we see here.
AMANPOUR: And on that note, Keri Russell, Debora Cahn, thank you so much.
RUSSELL: Oh, It's so nice to see you.
CAHN: It's great talking to you. Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: And as we said earlier, American diplomats are in the Middle East right now trying to get a ceasefire in the ongoing wars in Lebanon,
Gaza. Season 2 of "The Diplomat," the show, is out now.
And as the presidential candidates barnstorm the swing states, voter turnout will be key. And our next guest is dedicated specifically to
mobilizing black women to exercise their democratic rights. Cassandra Welchlin is executive director of the Mississippi Black Women's Roundtable,
and she now speaks with Michel Martin.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MICHEL MARTIN, CONTRIBUTOR: Cassandra Welchlin, thank you so much for joining us.
CASSANDRA WELCHLIN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MISSISSIPPI BLACK WOMEN'S ROUNDTABLE: Thank you for having me.
MARTIN: As we are a couple of days out, you know, from Election Day, although in some parts of the country, people are already voting, which is
something we'll get to. Let me just back -- go back to you. How did you get the idea for the work that you're doing? I mean, it's just -- it's the kind
of thing that -- I just have to be honest, a lot of people might think isn't necessary anymore.
WELCHLIN: One of the goals for me when I was asked to take over the Mississippi Black Women's Round table in 2018, the number one thing that
drove me and that my vision was I needed to liberate my people. And I knew what -- and it felt very much like a call, and I accepted that call.
And for me it looked like a couple of things. I am a policy advocate. I am a social worker. And one thing that I say is, you know, policy is the work
of our democracy, but the vote is the heart of our democracy. And so, for me, I wanted to make sure that liberation really stood tall with voting.
And so, we took that opportunity and began to say, how can we increase the voting population of black women, particularly infrequent black women?
And with that information, we develop an intentional voter engagement training plan that was rooted in culture, rooted strategically, and with
the intensity of a boot camp, because we understand that our voting rights are under attack. And so, we wanted to really design it in a way to where
it felt rigorous and it felt serious, but it also had a lot of joy in it as well.
MARTIN: So, let's back up a second, because there are a lot of people who are going to be listening to our conversation who are going to be asking
themselves, why do you need that in Mississippi? It's 2024. What are some of the things that you see that perhaps who are not in Mississippi wouldn't
know about what you see as obstacles to that participation?
WELCHLIN: When you ask that question, I'm really glad that you asked it that way, is because voting rights are still being suppressed here in the
State of Mississippi. People -- we have really regressive voting laws here. We do not have early voting in Mississippi.
MARTIN: Wait, wait, wait. You have no early voting at all?
WELCHLIN: We have no early voting.
MARTIN: OK.
WELCHLIN: We have absentee voting in Mississippi. And that you have to qualify for based on your age, based on disability, and you have to have a
reason to do it -- like, for instance, you cannot -- you have to go to work on that day. And so, then you can go and have absentee voting.
MARTIN: And that is my understanding that you also have to have your application for absentee voting notarized, which means you have to go to
somebody who is a notary public and get them to validate this.
WELCHLIN: Well, one more thing, Michel, is that we also don't have online voter registration and we don't have early voting.
[13:40:00]
And so, what this does is that it gives people only 12 hours in the day to go and vote. Well, that's problematic, particularly for black women in the
State of Mississippi that are working two and three jobs just to make ends meet.
And so, we're talking about child care and we're also talking about having inflexible work schedules. And for us, we're saying, you know, if this is a
democracy and where the vote is supposed to matter to everyone, then let's expand voting access so that people can vote their voice. That is
important. But we have these restrictions here that keep people from doing that. And let's not even talk about the disenfranchising crimes, you know,
that we have in Mississippi where people have lifetime voting restrictions where they can't vote.
MARTIN: Is the issue there that there's no process for restoration, like once your sentence is complete or once your period of probation is complete
that there is no -- there's no mechanism by which you could ask for restoration of your vote? Is that the main issue here?
WELCHLIN: Main issue is that is difficult here in Mississippi. You can ask for restoration, but because we also have a supermajority in the State of
Mississippi, the process for getting people's voting rights restored is very, very difficult.
Our process is you have to get a legislator to write a bill. And then present that and they have to vote on whether that person can get their
voting rights restored. That's very hard to do. The secretary of state had a hearing before the legislative body to say they want to put more
restrictions on people not being able to vote.
So, for instance, one of the things they want to do is add more crimes. Another thing that they want to do is they want to make sure that before
they can get their voting rights restored, they have to serve all their sentencing, and they have to pay back all of their restitutions and fines.
Well, we know that when folks are coming out of out of prison, that's very difficult. It's hard for them to even get a job. And we know that bails and
fines are really predatory on families and communities.
MARTIN: I'll tell you one of the things about Mississippi that is striking, is that it has one of the largest percentages of eligible black
voters in the country, some -- almost 40 percent of Mississippians are black or black and biracial, right? And yet, there are no black people in
statewide office in Mississippi. Both houses of the legislature are dominated by Republicans and the percentage of African Americans in that
body is nowhere near their percentage of the population overall. Why is that?
WELCHLIN: Yes. So, it has to go back to the -- you know, what I think are, you know, voter suppression and gerrymandering. You're right. We have not
had a statewide -- a person of color to be in a statewide office, not for not a lack of trying. Representation matters. But if you are drawing these
lines in such a way that disenfranchises the vote, then that becomes an issue. And this is the effect of that is that we haven't been able to have
a person of color or a black person to have -- to sit in that statewide office.
MARTIN: So, when you say that this is voter suppression, like how do people in the state respond to that? Do they believe you? Do they think
it's ridiculous? Like, what do they say?
WELCHLIN: So, Mississippi had 30,000 registered voters purged from the voter rolls. 30,000.
MARTIN: And when was -- yes. When was -- I was going to ask you, when did this happen?
WELCHLIN: Yes. Last year, 30,000. One of the things that we did this year, just a couple of weeks ago, we met the voters where they were, in the
restaurants, in the clubs, and we had a check your voter status day. And we presented them with an iPad, and we said, we need you to check your status.
Sure enough, some of those folks checked their status, like, no, it can't be me because I voted. They were not on those voting rolls.
We have made phone calls to people. You are not on the voting rolls. We want to help get you registered. Folks are knocking on doors and doing the
same. It is real.
MARTIN: What is their argument about why they were purged? Would they say that they were not voting and so, therefore, they thought that they were
either didn't live in the state or were no longer eligible? Like what's the stated reason why these voters were purged from the rolls?
[13:45:00]
WELCHLIN: Well, the stated reason is that they haven't voted in the last two elections. But what we know is that some people did vote and have
always consistently voted, super voters, but yet, they have been purged from the rolls.
MARTIN: I understand that yours is a nonpartisan organization, right? But can you give us a sense of what difference it would make if the -- let's
just focus on black voters. black voters who are registered, but for whatever reason, don't get to the polls, what difference it might make if
they were able to get to the polls?
WELCHLIN: In 2018 there were seven points between a Cindy Hyde-Smith and Mike Espy. So, that's a 60,000-vote difference.
MARTIN: And that's in the 2018 Senate race?
WELCHLIN: Yes, senate race. In 2019, there was five points between Jim Hood, this is the governor race, and Tate Reeves. So, that was a 45,000-
vote difference. And in 2023, there was a three-point race between Presley and Tate Reeves in the governor race. That's a 26,000-vote difference.
So, what that means is that the voting percentages is closing, which also means that there's opportunity for people to vote their values. And what
that also means is that the rules keep changing because it is those percentages are getting closer and organizations like ours are doing our
part, right, to ensure that people have access to the poll so they can vote who they want to vote for.
MARTIN: I think some people look at what they call like an undervote, right, that people who are eligible to vote but don't vote, they look at as
an undervote. They say, well, the undervote is that people aren't interested or the undervote is because people don't -- aren't motivated
enough to vote. And you're saying that that's just not true. In fact, more people keep voting despite these impediments.
WELCHLIN: Absolutely. More people keep voting. And we see it in the data. I think what's also driving this is -- so, for instance, we know that, you
know, the overturning of Roe versus Wade came out of Mississippi. Our attorney general brought that case to the Supreme Court, and people are
talking about that and on fire about that, and our young people are really carrying that banner and saying, this is important to me. And so, our young
people are showing up, you know, to the polls and having these conversations.
So, it's not that they're not showing up, it's about having that access and continuing to move the needle that will close that gap.
MARTIN: So, presumably you've testified to these matters, you've spoken about this publicly, you've been working on this for some time. When you
service these issues, what do these legislators say? What do these state officials say? How do they defend these decisions?
WELCHLIN: Last year, we have -- we saw during the legislative session where many of our legislators, particularly in the legislative black
caucus, put forward legislation that would restore people's voting rights, but it was rejected.
Now, when we talk about these issues that we are seeing in community, many of them understand that and see that. But when we go over to, you know,
less friendly legislators who really want to be more restrictive, one of the things that we hear is that we want to prevent fraud from occurring.
And we know that in Mississippi, that's very few and in between. There's not a lot of data that support there is fraud. And so, there's a lot of
disinformation that's occurring.
And so, we just continue to educate, this is what we're seeing in communities and we continue to stand together as a coalition to make sure
that our community is brought to the policy table so that they can get access to the right to vote.
Because what this really is about, Michel, at the end of the day, too, is how people who we elect in office really has an impact on what happens to
people's kitchen tables, making sure their wages are increased. Mississippi hasn't had a wage increased, right? It's still $7.25 cents.
MARTIN: You're saying your minimum wage, the minimum wage in Mississippi is 7.25 an hour?
WELCHLIN: Yes.
[13:50:00]
MARTIN: Is that what you're saying? So, let me just ask you this. I think it's just surprising people to hear that in a state like Mississippi where
people have all these -- you know, that is far more rural, people are far more -- you know, there are population centers that people are a lot more
spread out, that there aren't those opportunities to vote, you see this as intentional, as a way to keep certain people from voting?
WELCHLIN: Oh, absolutely. Oh, no doubt about it. You know, when you see that many people, black folks, registered to vote and has the potential to
elect someone that cares about their families and cares about their kitchen tables, cares about their drug prescriptions, right, care about, you know,
putting food on the table, then you're going to do everything you can to change the rules to the game, to ensure that they don't have access to that
ballot.
And so, racism runs through this, through and through, like you can't deny that. You know, this is why I think the John Lewis Voting Rights Act is so
important. That was once upon a time before it was struck down, where we had preclearance. Before any rules or policies or anything was changed, you
know, a state or jurisdiction had to get preclearance from the Department of Justice or higher court in D.C. to ensure that there wasn't, you know,
voter suppression. Well, that went away. And so, we don't have that kind of protection now.
And so, we have to continue to push hard and do the groundwork to ensure that everyone understand where their polling location is, check their voter
status and then let's help try to get people out to the polls while also working, at the same time, to push for early voting, online voter
registration, those kinds of things.
MARTIN: The Republican Party is dominant in Mississippi now, but I have to ask you whether you think that the Biden administration has done enough to
address these issues legislatively. There are, as you pointed out, a number of legislative proposals on the table. Do you think that the Democrats have
pushed hard enough on legislation that would address some of these issues?
WELCHLIN: So, we're nonpartisan. Well, this is what I will say when it comes to what this administration has done. It's not just about the
administration. This is an act of Congress. Congress has to do its part to ensure that we have a John Lewis Voting Rights Act, you know, the bill that
would strengthen, you know, legal protections against discriminatory voting policies.
So, it's not just about the administration, it is about Congress, both parties coming together to ensure that people -- that the people's freedoms
are centered in this debate, right, in this political context.
MARTIN: Before we let you go, why should people outside of Mississippi care about this?
WELCHLIN: So, they should care because it's just human nature to care about people. They should care -- and I -- this is just my story, right? My
mom making $2.13 had to hide me in the utility closet at her job back in the early '70s while she goes out and clean the floors because she was a
maid at one of the state agencies because she didn't have enough money to take me to childcare. That was in the '70s.
This is still happening today. This is Mississippi, but we also know this is happening in the south, this is happening in the country, and this is
happening around the world. People should invest in a place like Mississippi and in a place like the south. You shouldn't write us off.
MARTIN: Cassandra Welchlin, thank you so much for talking with us today.
WELCHLIN: Thank you for having me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: And finally, it is that time of year, lights, pumpkins, and skeletons all around. Today, Diwali, the Festival of Lights, begins. In one
celebration in India, millions of earthen lamps were lit up along this riverbank, near a famed Hindu temple in Ayodhya. And of course, it's also
Halloween. While children will be stuffing buckets full of candy, these zoo animals are getting pumpkin treats of their own. And speaking of spooky
holidays, Mexico City is gearing up for the Day of the Dead this weekend with people donning flamboyant skeleton costumes and families preparing
offerings to honor their deceased loved ones.
So, joy, even at the end, is in fact at the heart of all these celebrations. And it's a sentiment we want to leave you with.
And also, do tune in tomorrow for my interview with the Ukrainian tennis star Elina Svitolina. She's in Canada right now on a different kind of
mission, a special ambassador to help bring Ukraine's stolen children back from Russia. Here's what she told me about it.
[13:55:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELINA SVITOLIN, UKRAINIAN TENNIS PLAYER: The presidential initiative called bring kids back U.A. (ph) which takes care of the kids that's been
kidnapped. There are more than 20,000 kids that are being stolen from Ukraine. And kids are our future. They are our hope and this is in a big
danger for us for Ukrainians.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: And that's it for now. Thank you for watching, and goodbye from London.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:00:00]
END
