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Amanpour
Interview with European Commissioner President Ursula von der Leyen; Interview with Palestinian Observer to U.N. Riyad Mansour; Interview with U.N. Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs Tom Fletcher. Aired 1-2p ET
Aired September 24, 2025 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:00:00]
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, and welcome to "Amanpour." Here's what's coming up.
I'm here at the United Nations after Donald Trump swerves again on Ukraine while again urging an end to the war in Gaza. We hear from European
Commission President Ursula von der Leyen and from the lone Palestinian representative, its envoy to the United Nations, Riyad Mansour.
Then, since the Trump administration slashed foreign aid, crises mount in Gaza, Sudan and elsewhere, U.N. Relief Chief Tom Fletcher breaks down the
toll of these funding cuts in terms of human life.
Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour at the United Nations.
In a Truth Social post heard around the world, President Donald Trump unexpectedly reversed his stance on Russia's war, saying for the first
time, I think Ukraine is in a position to fight and win all of Ukraine back in its original form. Trump called Russia, quote, "a paper tiger" and told
reporters that NATO countries should shoot down Russian aircraft that violate their airspace.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy called Trump's post a game changer but speaking at the U.N. today, he also issued a warning to world leaders
saying --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: Whether you help peace or continue trading with Russia and helping Russia to fund this war, it
depends on you. Whether prisoners of war will be freed, whether abducted children will come home, whether hostages will be free, it depends on you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: To answer that question and to respond to Trump's broadside against European allies from the U.N. podium, my exclusive conversation
with the E.U. Commission President, Ursula von der Leyen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: President Ursula von der Leyen, welcome to the program.
URSULA VON DER LEYEN, EUROPEAN COMMISSION PRESIDENT: Thank you very much.
AMANPOUR: I mean, can I just start with what was it like in the room when President Trump literally delivered a broadside against you all on climate
change, basically calling it a con job and you'll fail, on immigration, your nations are going to hell. What did you make of it?
VON DER LEYEN: Well, you know, I know exactly what's going on in Europe. We have by now worked very hard to limit migration in a way that we say we
decide who comes to Europe and under what circumstances, not the smugglers and traffickers.
On energy, we're very clear. Every country decides on its own energy mix. For U.S., it's important to be independent. And therefore, to focus on
homegrown energy like renewables or nuclear, for example. That gives us energy security, is good for the planet, but also independence.
AMANPOUR: So, you don't agree that the renewables are a gigantic con job?
VON DER LEYEN: We will stay the course with the renewables because we think it is good for the climate, it is bringing good jobs at home in
Europe, it is cheaper than the fossil fuels for us in Europe because we do not have to import them and it gives us independence and energy security.
AMANPOUR: All right. So, you're going to forge your own way no matter what the president of the U.S. says?
VON DER LEYEN: The European Union is very clear on that. We have climate targets agreed with all 27 member states. We stay the course.
AMANPOUR: Fine. Let's move on to Ukraine because huge issue, and it's being perceived -- I don't know how you perceive it, I'd be interested in
your reaction, that Trump has made a dramatic switch from, remember in the Oval Office telling Zelenskyy in front of the world that you have no cards,
you need to negotiate, you need to call a ceasefire, you have no cards, to here saying that, yes, I actually think that with E.U., NATO help, you can
actually win back your territory. First, do you agree with what his assessment is and what do you attribute his shift to?
VON DER LEYEN: Well, we always were convinced and are convinced that Ukraine's fight is not only for Ukraine's independence and sovereignty, but
it's a question for the global order and the respect for the Charter, the sovereignty and territorial integrity of countries.
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Second, we have been working very hard to support Ukraine but also to show that there's a strong coalition of the willing, making sure that once peace
is there. We are able to give the security guarantees to Ukraine it needs. And the third point is most important. It took a while, but the evidence is
overwhelming to show to President Trump that President Putin is the predator, that he does not want peace, and that we have to be very clear
that the international rules have to be respected. And this is what you heard then yesterday.
AMANPOUR: I heard it from the president yesterday, you're right, and he said, you know, Putin has really disappointed me. I thought, as he said
many times, I could fix this war because of my relationship with Putin. I didn't realize that that wasn't going to be the case.
But my question to you is, do you think this signals a ramping up of E.U., NATO aid to Ukraine for the purpose of what Trump said, that they can win
back their territory? Do you think that is what the aim is now? What is the aim for Ukraine?
VON DER LEYEN: So, what the United States do is their decision, but the European Union has always been crystal clear that we're going to support
Ukraine and what it needs. So, far, $175 billion have been invested in Ukraine's defense, but also economic survival, and we will stay the course.
We will be ironclad by the side of Ukraine, and that is also giving them the military capabilities they need to defend their country.
AMANPOUR: But what is your assessment? Is the aim now for them to fight to regain their territory, or is it to keep defending, as you've said, and get
to a place where Putin takes everybody seriously, including Ukraine, for reasonable negotiations? What's the aim?
VON DER LEYEN: So, the aim is, of course, the decision on what is Ukrainian territory to be defended, that's a Ukraine decision. And we
respect that. The aim is that Putin comes to the negotiation table and sits down and negotiates, because we all want peace.
AMANPOUR: President Trump has over and again, I'm not going to use the word threatened, but said that he will punish Putin in various ways if he
doesn't do X in two weeks, or in 11 days, or in 20 -- I'm making it up, but, you know, constant deadlines that keep being fudged and missed. Now,
he's saying he's ready to impose tough sanctions on Putin, and this is a couple of weeks ago, as long as allies, NATO, European allies, stop buying
fossil fuel energy and et cetera, from the Russians. What's your response to that?
VON DER LEYEN: Well, President Trump is right, it's unacceptable that through the back door, Russian fossil fuel come back. Just a figure. We
have reduced Russian fossil fuels in Europe by 80 percent. Zero coal from Russia, for example. Only 3 percent of oil from Russia. So, really
drastically reduced.
But what I see, that LNG comes through the back door. So, we just propose to sanction LNG coming to the European markets that comes from Russia.
AMANPOUR: And the back -- OK. I'm just going to read you a Trump quote. He basically says, think about it. He's talking about you and other NATO
nations. They're funding the war against themselves. In other words, by buying Russian oil. Who ever heard of that? He actually said, who the hell
ever heard of that one? So, you're agreeing, then?
VON DER LEYEN: Look, three years ago, when the war started, indeed, there was a huge dependency on Russian gas. And Putin cut us off the gas. We had
a huge energy crisis. We diversified away to others in France. We invested massively in renewables and nuclear. So, that today, we almost got rid of
Russian fossil fuels. And it's correct, we have to finish that job. We have to get rid of Russian fossil fuels. Because it's only filling the Russian
war shed.
AMANPOUR: So, who's standing in the middle of this? So, you have imposed a ban on maritime Russian oil imports, refined products like diesel. But as
you say, many countries continue to import those fossil fuels and liquefied LNG, as you say, around the back door. So, who are the culprits? Is it
Slovakia? Is it Turkey? Is it Hungary? Who is it?
VON DER LEYEN: Some member states in the European Union that are still having LNG or Russian oil. And here, we just, as I said, issued a sanctions
package that makes very clear that in a few months, they have to get rid of the LNG because it is sanctioned.
AMANPOUR: There's sanctions also on China. Trump has reportedly demanded of you, the E.U., to put tariffs up to about 100 percent on China and
India. Again, punishing countries who buy from Russia, notably energy, and also fund the war.
VON DER LEYEN: It is absolutely correct that we have to reduce the war chest of Putin as much as possible. And therefore, we, for example, have
already put out a ban for products, refined products from Russian fossil fuels.
[13:10:00]
These hits, for example, countries like Turkey or India. But we also are sanctioning banks or refineries and different companies where we see that
they are circumventing our sanctions. So, there is an ongoing hard work really to limit the revenues that Putin is getting from fossil fuels as far
as we are able to do that.
What is not possible in our legal system is to put on tariffs for foreign policy reasons. We put tariffs for economic reasons, but not for foreign
policy reasons. We work with sanctions. We work with bans. We have been very successful. If you look at the Russian economy, it's a total war
economy now, skyrocketing interest rates, high inflation. They are at their limit. They are at a point that is critical for them. And if we increase
the pressure, my prediction is that finally Putin will come to the negotiation table and we can end this war.
AMANPOUR: That's your prediction. Then how do you react to this constant testing, testing, testing by actual military of the NATO airspace? I know
you're not officially NATO, but many of your nations are. Drones into Poland, into Romania, and fighter jets into Estonian airspace. President
Trump was asked again yesterday, do you support NATO shooting down any unidentified flying objects or planes, Russian, that fly into NATO
airspace? He said, yes, I do.
VON DER LEYEN: So, as you rightly said, I'm not NATO, but I have a personal opinion.
AMANPOUR: Yes, what is it?
VON DER LEYEN: And yes, my opinion is we have to defend every square centimeter of the territory. And that means if there's an intrusion in the
airspace, after warning, after being very clear, of course the option of shooting down a fighter jet that is intruding our airspace is on the table.
AMANPOUR: Turkey did it 10 years ago and didn't suffer consequences necessarily.
VON DER LEYEN: No, and it's a principle of NATO and Article 5. So --
AMANPOUR: What's taken you so long? I know you're not NATO, but what's taken the world so long? Because Russia has been really testing for such a
long time. Is it time now to punch back in the nose?
VON DER LEYEN: Russia is testing on all fields. I mean, that's a hybrid war that we experienced since many, many years, that Russia is leading
against the democracies of the European Union and others. And therefore, we fight back on all the different fields. And as I said, it's a decision of
NATO. But I would be very clear, you don't touch our territory.
AMANPOUR: And you were a former defense minister, I remember, when we first met, for Germany. You're talking about interference. There is an
election coming up in Moldova, which I know is not an E.U. nation, but has all the -- you know, wants to be and is being supported by a lot of Western
nations in its efforts. It is said that there's a huge amount of Russian interference. They don't want the current president to be re-elected. She's
very pro-Western. What do you see happening there? What concerns you about what might happen in Moldova?
VON DER LEYEN: The evidence is overwhelming and very clear that there is massive interference. Important is to create transparency. That's what
we're doing, to show to the people, do your own choice, choose the one that is better for you and your future, and to be very clear that Moldova has
our support in being an independent democracy and having the right to have independent, secret and true votes. And therefore, very clear that there's
full support for Moldova in trying to fence off this foreign interference.
AMANPOUR: And what is your analysis? Are they going to be able to fend it off, do you think, you know, or not?
VON DER LEYEN: Look, everybody's working hard on that one, and I think the more transparency we create on what's going on and that this interference
is there, the more people will realize their future is in their hands and go vote.
AMANPOUR: Well, that's a clear call. On Israel, here this week is dominated by the recognition of Palestine as a state, Palestinian
statehood. Now, four of the five permanent members of the Security Council recognize it, except for the United States.
How do you think this movement is going to show results on the ground? Israel is already threatening to retaliate. I had the ambassador on my
program yesterday who said maybe they'll have to put more Jewish civilians in what he called Judea and Samaria, the occupied West Bank. We've got a
massive offensive happening as we speak. Hospitals, civilians, people as they try to go after more Hamas in Gaza City. What is -- first, what is
this recognition going to do?
VON DER LEYEN: Well, I think the most important at this moment at the United Nations the day before yesterday was that there was absolutely unity
on a two-state solution. This is the important part. This is also where Europe is completely united, that we see the future in a two-state solution
and that we should work intensively towards that.
[13:15:00]
For us it's important that all hostages are being relieved, that Gaza -- the war in Gaza stops, that there is a ceasefire, but there needs to be the
hope for a two-state solution that is viable. And this is the unifying factor.
AMANPOUR: Because the Israelis say no, and they're doing everything they can, as you've heard from ministers, including the prime minister, there
will never be a Palestinian State, he said. I've got news for you, it's not going to happen.
VON DER LEYEN: Yes. But that is something where we have to be, and we are very clear, and you've seen a large number of countries support this
resolution with a two-state solution.
AMANPOUR: What can Europe do more? There are certain European countries who stopped certain trade with Israel, who talk about the Eurovision Song
Contest even, pulling out if Israel joins. What can you do beyond rhetoric? There are trade deals, there's stuff that you could do. What will you do?
VON DER LEYEN: Look, first of all, Europe is the largest donor of humanitarian aid in this conflict. Europe is also the largest donor to the
Palestinian Authority, that is crucial for the two-state solution, very important. Europe has strong and good relations also to Israel, and we've
been very clear that we will take away the preferential treatment in trade, not affecting civil society, not affecting our work with Yad Vashem, but
that we look at the reduction of preferential treatment for Israel trade.
Our wish is that we go back to the path of a two-state solution. Therefore, we want a strong relationship with Israel -- with Israeli people, with the
Palestinian people, and we want solutions that are viable for the future.
AMANPOUR: One last question, I don't know whether you have any more details, but you were flying in your own official plane a while ago, and
there was a GPS issue, and there was all this thought that maybe the Russians had interfered or what. Do you know what happened? Did you even
know it was happening at the time?
VON DER LEYEN: The airport authorities are the ones who were very clear on that one. Actually, this seems to be a daily experience for the frontline
countries. I visited the frontline countries, and for them a daily experience is the jamming that the Russians and Belarusians do, but also,
for example, the event with drones coming to the Polish territory, forced migration at the border of those frontline countries. These countries
experience every single day the hybrid attacks by Russia and Belarus, and they need our full support.
AMANPOUR: You know, I didn't ask you, but I know it's a big deal for you. President Zelenskyy laid down a challenge to the Global Community to not
just stop this war, but also to help bring back children who've been kidnapped and Russified. I mean, they've been completely turned into
Russian citizens, these children. And as we know, President Putin has been -- there's an arrest warrant out for him by the ICC on this issue of
kidnapped children. What have you discussed here? I know Melania Trump was here talking to Olena Zelenska about it.
VON DER LEYEN: So, first of all, it's abhorrent what is happening there. And therefore, from day one on, we were at the side of Ukraine to do
everything possible to bring back those children. We worked very intensively with UNICEF. We're funding in UNICEF a program for the children
that are coming back to be treated and to give them the opportunity to heal and to give them support and to raise attention globally.
We will host the next summit on the abducted children. This is something where the world has to look at and the world has to stand as one that these
children go back home.
AMANPOUR: All right. Ursula von der Leyen, president of the E.U. Commission, thank you so much for being with us.
VON DER LEYEN: Thank you very much.
AMANPOUR: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Stay with CNN, because we'll be right back after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:20:00]
AMANPOUR: Now, to Gaza where more than 60 people have been killed over the past 24 hours according to an update from local hospitals. Those hospitals
are themselves a prime target of Israel's assault on Gaza City. Most of the latest killings occurred there.
The war in Gaza is a key focus of diplomatic discussions at this U.N. General Assembly. France, Britain, Canada, Australia are among a surge of
nations now recognizing Palestinian statehood. And yet, there are no high- level Palestinian officials in attendance.
In an unprecedented move, the U.S. refused visas to PA leaders, leader of the Palestinian Authority. Instead, the sole representative is the
Palestinian envoy to the United Nations, Riyad Mansour, and he is joining me now. Welcome to the program.
RIYAD MANSOUR, PALESTINIAN OBSERVER TO U.N.: Thank you for having me.
AMANPOUR: So, we see before, you know, talking to you, a picture of you alone in the Security Council, in your box of the General Assembly
yesterday. How does it feel? Do you feel alone or do you feel the world is with you?
MANSOUR: No, I don't feel that alone. First of all, I have a capable team with me in New York and I have the whole world is with me. So, Palestine is
not isolated. And the Palestinians, the leadership, the angel, the children are filling the rooms in the General Assembly. And I feel they're filling
the streets in New York City.
AMANPOUR: There are certainly Palestinian flags flying. And it has been a huge focus with the recognition. And now, an overwhelming majority of U.N.
members recognize Palestinian statehood. What do you think it will mean practically?
MANSOUR: It means a lot, especially when you have countries like the U.K., which adopted the Balfour Declaration almost a hundred years ago to finally
recognize the State of Palestine is historic. And as I said yesterday to President Macron jokingly, I said, you know, this is a wonderful adjustment
and shift of something of the caliber of Sykes-Picot. And then he told me, I know a lot about Sykes-Picot.
So, when you see countries like that, Canada, Australia, joining the 149 countries that voted the -- voted to recognize the State of Palestine. So,
now we have 159. It's massive. It's very important. Historic.
AMANPOUR: Important countries, though, the United States, obviously Israel, and islands like Nauru, Palau, nations in Latin America, Paraguay,
voted no. President Abbas of the PA will speak to this assembly tomorrow, but only by remote. There was a vote. They agreed to let him address by
remote because he's been denied a visa along with his major delegation. What do you think that's going to achieve? A, denying the visas. Why do you
think that happened?
MANSOUR: Well, what will it achieve? You know, I asked the United States government that made that very unfortunate and regrettable decision. If
they think that this way they will silence U.S., they're mistaken. I think it backfired. Some countries that maybe they were reluctant about the
recognition made up their mind and recognized the State of Palestine. And I don't want to name countries.
You cannot in today's technology silence anyone. Palestine is present. Palestine is filling all of the holes at the United Nations. Our president
on Monday addressed the international conference on the two-state solution, and tomorrow he will be the fourth speaker addressing the General Assembly.
AMANPOUR: Have you seen a draft? Do you know what he's going to say, more of less?
MANSOUR: Well, he said something that everybody heard that on Monday. There will be more that will be built on that.
[13:25:00]
AMANPOUR: Because as we speak it's -- we can see it, and it's been said that all well and good to recognize Palestinian statehood, but Gaza is
being demolished.
MANSOUR: Yes.
AMANPOUR: How do you think this is going to stop?
MANSOUR: The first thing is that this genocidal war against our people has to stop. Stopping the war will create so many positive things. Number one,
it will save lives. We will not lose on the average of 100 Palestinians. A large number of them are children on a daily basis. Hundreds injured. And
also, it increases the chances of the release of the hostages.
The continuation of the war, it takes lives. Peace saves lives. We should be giving peace a chance. Remember that chant that, you know, when we were
young, it used to be filling the streets in the United States regarding Vietnam? Let's give peace a chance in our region. This war has to stop.
Food should be provided to our people, not to starve them to death. And medicine. And we need not to allow the crime against humanity to take place
of forced displacement. We need to rebuild Gaza. Gaza is a precious part of Palestine, and we can rebuild it. We can make it more beautiful than
before. Our people are resilient, and they want to stay in that part of our national homeland, Gaza. It's a precious part.
AMANPOUR: Can I ask you something, then? You talk about rebuild more beautiful than before. There have been various plans put forth. The Arab
countries have said they will. It's been rejected so far by Israel and the United States, at least publicly, as part of the plan they put out many
months ago. But there is this plan by this trusteeship called the Acronym is GREAT.
It suggests that Gaza will go into a U.S. and other kind of trusteeship, that it will be built as a sort of, like Trump said, you know, Riviera of
the Middle East, that it will be a tech hub and all the rest of it, and that it might even include Palestinians being moved, at least temporarily.
What do you know about that?
MANSOUR: Some of these narratives are history. They were suggested at a certain period of time, but once the Arabs and the Muslims at the level of
the summit and the ministerial meeting of the OIC said we have plans, and they put the plans, 130 pages, and we will fund these plans, $53 billion.
President Trump sort of retreated, because when he knew that there is a plan by the Arab and the Muslims and supported by the European Union and
others, then therefore, that is the plan that has the global consensus.
And in fact, in the declaration of New York on the two-state solution, there is an endorsement by all the countries that voted in favor of that
plan, they endorsed that reconstruction of Gaza plan. So, that is the only plan, and it will start three weeks after the ceasefire, according to the
Egyptians. They will convene the reconstruction conference organized by Egypt, Palestine, and the United Nations, and endorsed by so many European
countries and others will be convened in Cairo, and we will begin the process of the implementation.
AMANPOUR: OK. All right. Now, as you know, Israel is very angry, and so is the United States, about the recognition. They say that it is a reward for
Hamas terrorism. They say that it's not up to any third-party to decide on the resolution of your 80-year conflict or more, but it's up to the two
parties to decide in negotiations. Then they say that there is no Palestinian partner to negotiate with. They say that even the PA, which
recognizes Israel, is not legitimate in terms of its credibility.
This is what Ambassador Danny Danon from Israel --
MANSOUR: But before you show me --
AMANPOUR: OK. Go ahead, go ahead.
MANSOUR: -- is it the right of Israel to decide for us our fate? To deny us the right to self-determination? Is it the right of Israel to say there
will never be a Palestinian State, the occupiers? At least the Palestinian people, have the right, under the Charter of the U.N., through exercising
their right to self-determination, to decide for themselves what they want, and we have decided we want the end of occupation.
[13:30:00]
The ICJ said it's illegal occupation, that it has to be terminated as rapidly as possible. The General Assembly, one year, we want the end of
this illegal occupation, and we want the independence of our state, with East Jerusalem as its capital on the border of the 4th of June of 1967.
That's the position of the Palestinian people.
AMANPOUR: Of course. And to your point, I spoke to, as you saw, the president of the E.U. Commission, Ursula von der Leyen, who this morning
said that this recognition reinforces the E.U. and the International Community's continued commitment to a two-state solution. So, you do have
that obvious recognition.
But when you talk about a state, the reality is that there's a huge number of more settlements, as you know, in the occupied West Bank. And again,
Ambassador Danon told me yesterday that one of the things they may do in response to this recognition is, I believe he said, put more Jewish
civilians in what they call Judea and Samaria. And you know there's this big settlement, which I think is called E1, that they have threatened to
put and potentially even annex large parts of the West Bank. So, those are physical responses.
MANSOUR: But this is illegal. Illegal by international law and by the historic opinion of the ICJ.
AMANPOUR: OK. But it keeps happening.
MANSOUR: And let me also add --
AMANPOUR: But it keeps happening.
MANSOUR: Let me --
AMANPOUR: I'm talking about practical and pragmatic.
MANSOUR: I know. But let me add that while this insane government led by Netanyahu are doubling down on violation of international law and they want
to erase the existence of the Palestinian people and express the rest and to annex what they want to annex in the West Bank and to have more
settlements, the International Community is doubling down and not allowing them to succeed with that. That's one of the components of the recognition.
This is one -- another component of the atmosphere that you see at the U.N. Almost everyone for the two-state solution, which requires the end of this
occupation, which is illegal, and the independence and freedom for the Palestinian people.
AMANPOUR: Can I also just put to you, because I've been trying to put to you what the Israelis say about not having a credible Palestinian Authority
to deal with. One of the issues they say is this pay-to-slay program that they say is still going on. Can I just play this bit of my interview with
Ambassador Danon?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANNY DANON, ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: I'll tell you why it was the right decision. Because, you know, people make the distinction
between Hamas and the PA. But the PA, they continue to pay terrorists. They have the pay-to-slay policy. There was a terror attack in Jerusalem a few
weeks ago. Six Israelis were massacred. The PA, President Abbas, will pay the families of the terrorists a monthly salary of $1,000 a month for life.
AMANPOUR: From what I gather, that is no longer the case.
DANON: No, no, that's the case. And you can ask President Abbas, next time you interview him.
AMANPOUR: I will.
DANON: And he will tell you --
AMANPOUR: I will. I'll ask his representative tomorrow, actually.
DANON: And they will tell you that's for them, that's part of their ideology.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: OK. So --
MANSOUR: You are right, it is not the case. Ask, you know, the U.S. administration. And our government has been in discussions with them. And
there is now, the old arrangement is not in place. There is something else that was negotiated over a long period of time. And it met the approval and
the acceptance of many parties, including the U.S. administration.
AMANPOUR: You mentioned the U.S. administration. Obviously, the nation with the most influence in the region is the United States, right?
MANSOUR: Yes, that's correct.
AMANPOUR: So, how do you see the current U.S. administration being an honest broker, as you've always wanted, you know, third parties to be,
between your legitimate rights and Israel's legitimate rights? Do you say that this -- do you think that you have that commitment from this
administration?
MANSOUR: You see, this administration cannot ignore what happened on Monday and what happened after that. When these very important countries to
the U.S. administration and to U.S. policies, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, United Arab Emirates on one hand, France, U.K., Italy, Spain, Canada, Australia,
just only to name a few, are saying this war has to stop. They're saying this occupation has to end. A two-state solution has to take place. The
Palestinian Authority is our partner, and it should run the affairs of the Palestinian people in all parts of the land of the State of Palestine,
including Gaza. We are working with them. We are strengthening them.
[13:35:00]
I just signed in the European Union headquarters just an hour ago a loan agreement between European Investment Bank with our Palestinian Monetary
Authority, 400 million European euros. And our prime minister just a few weeks ago was in Brussels. He signed an agreement with the European Union
of receiving 1.6 billion euros in the next three years to strengthen the institutions of the State of Palestine. It means that people are determined
not to allow the Palestinian Authority to collapse or to be destroyed in spite of these crazy wishes of the Israeli leaders.
And we will see who will win the baton. It is the International Community saying you will not succeed in killing more Palestinians. Ceasefire will be
in place. You will not succeed in starving them. Food will be coming to scale to the Gaza Strip. You will not succeed in pushing them to the border
of Egypt to end up having them in Sinai. We will allow them to begin the process of the reconstruction, and we are determined that this occupation
will end and the two-state solution will be a reality. So, they're doubling down, and the world is doubling down. Now -- again, you will not succeed in
erasing a nation, and we will see who will win.
AMANPOUR: All right. Special Envoy Riyad Mansour, thank you very much indeed.
MANSOUR: Thank you. I am the ambassador of the State of Palestine.
AMANPOUR: I know, but officially it says permanent observer, but now, you're the ambassador because of the recognition?
MANSOUR: No, in the blue book if you read, I am ambassador of the State of Palestine, permanent observer of the State of Palestine.
AMANPOUR: There you go. Thank you for clearing that up.
MANSOUR: You're very welcome.
AMANPOUR: And we'll be right back after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
AMANPOUR: So, as we've mentioned, it's not only global challenges being discussed here at the United Nations General Assembly, but also the future
of the U.N. itself, which President Trump laid into, along with allies arrayed before him. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Not only is the U.N. not solving the problems it should too often, it's actually creating new problems for us to
solve. It's time to end the failed experiment of open borders. You have to end it now. See, I can tell you. Climate change. Because if it goes higher
or lower, whatever the hell happens, there's climate change.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: All of this with the UNGA's new president, former German foreign minister, Annalena Baerbock, looking on from above. But before the speech
yesterday, previewing for us the U.N. at 80, she had come out swinging in defense of this global institution. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNALENA BAERBOCK, UNITED NATIONS GENERAL ASSEMBLY PRESIDENT: This is a task of our time, to make the United Nations alive again. And for that one,
we have to reform it. Obviously, not all the reforms we needed in the past have been delivered. It has to be made fit for the 21st century. There's
also so much more potential with A.I. and other techniques and tools.
However, this does not mean that we should get rid of our principles. Because the principles in the charter, they are the baseline for a peaceful
world. And it's a responsibility of every member state, especially of the permanent members of the Security Council to deliver on these resolutions
and on these principles.
[13:40:00]
And this is why I've called as a president of the General Assembly to reunite at this moment, when we are at the crossroads, to underline that
this is a make it moment and not a break it moment. To embrace the vision that we are all better together and that every state leader should ask
himself when he comes to the General Assembly, what has the U.N. done for my country? And no country in the world would be better off without United
Nations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: So, the humanitarian crisis requires everyone to work together. It continues to worsen, as you've been hearing from our guests today.
Medical facilities there are overwhelmed. They face a tsunami of injured and sick patients fleeing the Israeli attacks. And while President Trump
claims that the U.N. is failing to solve global problems, his own dramatic aid cuts are making humanitarian crises worse.
Tom Fletcher is the U.N.'s Under Secretary General for Humanitarian Affairs, and we spoke about his ongoing efforts to keep desperately needed
aid flowing in the face of these severe political and institutional pressures.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Tom Fletcher, welcome to the program. Can I ask you, Trump was in sort of broadside mode yesterday. He was, you know, launching into his
allies and even the U.N. Can I just play a little soundbite of Donald Trump?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: What is the purpose of the United Nations? The U.N. has such tremendous potential. I've always said it. It has such tremendous,
tremendous potential, but it's not even coming close to living up to that potential. For the most part, at least for now, all they seem to do is
write a really strongly worded letter and then never follow that letter up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Were you surprised by that? And how did his meeting with the secretary general go?
TOM FLETCHER, U.N. UNDER-SECRETARY-GENERAL FOR HUMANITARIAN AFFAIRS: Well, there were fireworks yesterday, but you know, this is the purpose of high-
level week. This is the place where we come to air our disagreements, but also to think how we work together practically.
So, yes, there was lots of theater. There was lots of knock of them stuff yesterday. It was high drama, but it brings an energy to the conversation.
And actually, you know, I heard President Trump say in his speech how committed he is to a ceasefire in Gaza. I heard him in the meeting with the
S.G. He was very clear he's 100 percent behind the U.N. He wants to see the U.N. go out there and work with the U.S. administration and others in
ending some conflicts. And that's why we're here.
You know, what's the purpose of the U.N.? It's saving lives. It's ending wars. It's building resilient communities. And I think that's a shared
objective.
AMANPOUR: So, he was, you know, slightly different in his demeanor with the S.G., more accepting of and wanting to partner in good ways.
FLETCHER: Absolutely. It was a very practical -- it was two leaders meeting to think about how do we end some of these conflicts around the
world. And it's something that President Trump has made clear he's very committed to. He's willing to work the phones, to put the energy through
the diplomacy. And that's what we need right now. We need the world to come together and actually end some wars.
AMANPOUR: Just another question on the how the body works. We know that, you know, in its heyday, the U.N. played very important mediating roles,
whether it was -- even the Cuban Missile Crisis in Congo and in all sorts of places in the '60s and such. But now it seems like the Security Council,
the five permanent powerful members, are always deadlocked.
And there's never a resolution because everybody's using their veto, whether it's Russia or China or the United States. Do you see a sort of a
reform there needed?
FLETCHER: Yes. Look, I mean, even in the good days when it was easier, when the Security Council wasn't paralyzed, diplomacy was still tough. It
was still hard. It still took patience and tenacity and creativity. And, you know, George Mitchell talked about 799 days, if only one, of success.
This stuff isn't easy. The work we're trying to do in Sudan to end the conflict there, the work we're trying to do to get access to Gaza, these
aren't easy things to achieve, but we're working on them every day.
Now, do we need a Security Council that functions better? Absolutely. Could we be smaller, faster, more agile? Absolutely. This isn't a perfect
institution, but it wasn't created for good times. It was created for times like this.
AMANPOUR: You mentioned George Mitchell, the senator who famously was a major negotiator between the Northern Ireland and Britain and all the rest
of it during the peace process there. You also mentioned Sudan. It's one of the incredibly difficult humanitarian crises. Some 24 million face acute
food insecurity. Cholera is spreading.
In one place in Darfur, al-Fashir, 300,000 civilians are trapped under siege. I mean, it sounds like a nightmare on a par with Gaza. Can you tell
us what's happening?
FLETCHER: Yes. Well, in terms of the scale of this, it's even greater than Gaza. When you're looking at 20 to 30 million people who need that support.
I want al-Fashir where those people are under siege, I want them to get in there with food and water. We've got convoys ready to go
[13:45:00]
But here, as everywhere else, we need three things. We need a political process. And so, I've got two meetings, a day, working behind the scenes to
try to bring together the right regional players to try and get ceasefires. We need access, and that means we work the phones, I'll have calls with
leadership of the parties on the ground to try to get us through those checkpoints, try and get security for our people, who are often under fire
when they're delivering, and we need funding. The Sudan appeal is about 20 percent funded, and that's consistent across all of our appeals.
You know, next year, we could save 114 million lives with just 1 percent of what the world will spend and boast about spending on defense.
AMANPOUR: Wow, that's a lot.
FLETCHER: 1 percent. I'm not asking people to choose between a hotel in Brooklyn and a hotel in Darfur. I'm asking them to just give us 1 percent
of what they're spending on guns, many of which, by the way, are targeting the communities we serve and are targeting us as well. Last year was the
deadliest year ever to be a humanitarian.
AMANPOUR: All over.
FLETCHER: All over. Hundreds of colleagues.
AMANPOUR: Just on the issue of funding, the United States started the Trump 2.0 administration with a scythe through USAID, foreign aid, and also
funding for the U.N. humanitarian arms, whether it's WFP, UNHCR, all of those things. How can you deal? I mean, you say only a small percentage of
these funding calls have been met. How are you going to get money out of the richest country?
FLETCHER: So, it's a very, very tough funding environment for a certain moment. And let's remember, U.S. funding has saved hundreds of millions of
lives over the years, and, you know, we should be grateful for that. But now we're in a very practical conversation with the new administration, as
people fill positions in that administration, about how the U.S. could play that major humanitarian role again.
You know, we need the U.S. as part of that equation. We can't save over 100 million lives without that American support. We have to work out how we can
work together, where the U.S., with its new configuration, will be interested in working, and where it's very clear with us that it doesn't
want to work. And let's get into that conversation. I want to have that practical conversation.
AMANPOUR: Is it a happening, the conversation?
FLETCHER: It is. I've had really practical, engaged conversations with appointees as they're filling these roles in State Department and
elsewhere. And it's a conversation I absolutely relish, because what I don't relish is taking these brutal life and death decisions every day
about which program to stop. And as we've discussed before, I've seen in Kunduz and Kandahar in Afghanistan, I saw it in Goma a couple of weeks ago,
I saw it in Haiti. I'm seeing the direct impact on people's lives, people who will die because of funding cuts.
AMANPOUR: Exactly, and let's just talk about Gaza, because it's so in the -- you know, it's so much in the forefront. 65,000 Palestinians killed
since October 7th. Hostages still there, the remaining ones. This hasn't -- you know, it hasn't been resolved in any sort of negotiated fashion. But in
the meantime, this massive offensive on the last remaining huge city, Gaza City, is really causing a lot of life lost, and fear, and forced
departures. And apparently, surrounding hospitals, they're hospitals under severe attack right now. Again, what do you know, what can you tell U.S.,
what can you do about it?
FLETCHER: It's absolutely horrendous. It was horrendous when I went in in February and met kids who had had amputations without anesthetics. It's
horrendous that kids dying of starvation, effectively their body's consuming their own organs. What we give them to try and avoid that is this
kind of high-protein peanut butter paste.
AMANPOUR: Yes, yes. I know what it is.
FLETCHER: And we've been told we can't bring peanut butter in because it's a luxury, because Hamas might try to steal the peanut butter. So, we are on
the border every day arguing --
AMANPOUR: Seriously?
FLETCHER: Seriously. We are fighting to get our convoys through. We're getting a little bit more in now, but it is still a drop in the ocean. And
what we're seeing in Gaza City is utterly horrendous. And again, people have been displaced time and time again, the lucky people are the ones
living under tents. The lucky people are the people who can escape. But we're there, we will stay and deliver. We've got our colleagues remaining
in Gaza City to save as many lives as we can and to bear witness and testimony to what we see.
AMANPOUR: I'm literally trying to process the peanut. It's called the Plumpy thing, right? I've seen it given in desperate situations all over
the world. And you're telling me that is being forbidden. It's on a list of banned substances into Gaza?
FLETCHER: Yes, and what we have to deal with each day are these bureaucratic restrictions. We deal with the rules changing all the time.
You know, we get convoys across the border, we unload, we then have to load them up again onto different lorries. We then don't get the permission to
move. We get sent down the road where the looters are waiting, desperate, starving, hungry people.
You know, my colleague in Gaza has been documenting each day in videos the reality of what we face on those convoys. And guess what? She's about to
lose her visa and get kicked out.
AMANPOUR: Because?
FLETCHER: Because she's trying to tell the world what you are not allowed in to tell the world. And I heard you interviewing the Israeli ambassador
earlier. The international media can't get in. So, we're just trying to explain the logistic, the bureaucratic obstacles we face. And we're not
even being allowed to do that.
[13:50:00]
AMANPOUR: Can I ask you, because, again, I've covered a lot of these humanitarian crises and I've noticed that there is a, you know, media
effect. If you're there, if we're there on the ground, it does raise awareness much more and makes it a more urgent problem that needs to be
solved by the world. What do you think is the result of the media like us not being allowed in?
FLETCHER: Well, there's a reason you're not being allowed in, it's because Israel doesn't want you to see what's happening on the ground. Now, there
are, of course, as you've always highlighted, many, many courageous Palestinian journalists, many of whom have been dying in massive numbers,
who are telling that story. But I think it's appalling that you haven't been given that access. And it's chilling.
AMANPOUR: The Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, which we know is a very suspect organization. I mean, it's highly militarized. You won't work with
them for a reason, right?
FLETCHER: So, we're not working through that mechanism. We've been very clear about that. We desperately want to see principled, neutral,
independent humanitarian aid based on need. And we desperately want to make sure that our aid doesn't support displacement of people and that we can
reach all parts, including the north, and access all crossings. And --
AMANPOUR: Just quickly about all crossings. There is a closure of the Allenby Bridge, which is the crossing from the Palestinian territories into
Jordan, right?
FLETCHER: That's right.
AMANPOUR: And Israel has closed it. Is that a permanent thing and if -- or even a long-term thing? And what does that do to the humanitarian route?
FLETCHER: So, I've just come from a meeting with Queen Rania and the Jordanian foreign minister about the Allenby Crossing. We've got to get it
back open again. But we need all these crossings open for aid. Because we shouldn't have to ask. Like, the idea is that aid, humanitarian aid, is
neutral, independent, impartial, and that we get complete access. And of course, that's been denied to us all the way through this crisis.
AMANPOUR: Is starvation a policy as far as the U.N. is concerned?
FLETCHER: We think this is a man-made famine. We know that it's happening within meters of our supplies on the border. We can see every day what's
going on. We know that we have the resources, the networks, the convoys, the experience, the expertise to stop this starvation. If we could get 500,
600 trucks in a day, we could end this famine, and we're being prevented from doing that at that scale. And that's the problem.
AMANPOUR: And tell me about what you notice at the hospitals because there are desperate reports coming out of now Gaza City and its hospitals. You
know, there are attacks, people are dying.
FLETCHER: Unfortunately, this has been a pattern throughout this conflict now. So, for almost two years. And I visited many of those hospitals,
including al-Awda, al-Shifa. You know, I met doctors who were operating while under sniper attack. I visited the hospital where someone -- one of
the doctors has written on the wall, tell them that we did what we could, which I hope that we will all be able to say one day. He was later killed.
I visited al-Shifa, donated blood there because of the lack of blood. Our colleagues found shallow graves. You know, I met the doctors --
AMANPOUR: Shallow graves?
FLETCHER: Shallow graves. I met doctors who are operating without anesthetics because, again, we're not allowed to bring in the anesthetics
that they need. You know, it's utterly horrendous.
AMANPOUR: Who were in the shallow graves?
FLETCHER: Very hard to say, but they were recently dug. We fear that they were patients who, you know, had been killed then in the offensive that had
overran that parts of al-Shifa hospital. So, it's unimaginable what we're seeing and what we're finding in those hospitals. And hospitals should
never be a target.
AMANPOUR: You know, and obviously the hostages are somewhere. I mean, what do you think about how this offensive is affecting their chance of being
recovered alive?
FLETCHER: So, I visited Nir Oz, one of the kibbutz that was hit on October the 7th, where one in four people were killed or taken hostage. And I spent
time with the families there and I'm in touch with them very regularly. They want the food to get in. They want a ceasefire because they know that
during the ceasefire, we were able to get loads of hostages out and I'm desperate to get the remaining hostages out. We need that ceasefire to be
able to do that. They should be at home with their loved ones.
And we need, of course, as President Trump said yesterday, we also need to bring out the remains of those hostages who've been killed. And you know,
their families have a right to be reconciled with their loved ones too.
So, we will keep fighting, keep battling to get the aid in and the hostages out. You know, that message hasn't changed since the beginning of this
phase of the conflict. And it's -- you know, it's a 21st century atrocity that we're seeing around us. And the hostages are suffering, the
Palestinians are suffering, the families are suffering, and we need the ceasefire.
AMANPOUR: Tom Fletcher, thank you very much indeed for being with us.
FLETCHER: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Dire indeed. And finally, a victory in the fight for free speech following a massive public outcry. Jimmy Kimmel is back a week after being
pulled off air by ABC over his comments about Charlie Kirk's murder.
[13:55:00]
In an emotional monologue last night, the comedian apologized for those remarks saying it was never his intention to make light of the murder nor
blame a specific group. But the talk show host also expressed his disdain for the president's overt support for his cancellation. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE!": Look, I never imagined I would be in a situation like this. I barely paid attention in school. But one
thing I did learn from Lenny Bruce and George Carlin and Howard Stern is that a government threat to silence a comedian the president doesn't like
is anti-American.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Hearing about Kimmel's return, Trump threatened to test ABC out with a new legal complaint.
That is it for now. Thank you for watching, and goodbye from the United Nations.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:00:00]
END
