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Amanpour
Interview with "American Doctor" Subject Mark Perimutter; Interview with "American Doctor" Subject Feroze Sidhwa; Interview with Anti- Corruption Action Centre Executive Director Daria Kaleniuk; Interview with "Half Man" Creator and Actor Richard Gadd. Aired 1-2p ET
Aired August 19, 2026 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:00:00]
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello everyone and welcome to "Amanpour." Here's what's coming up.
Israeli settler violence surging. Strikes on Gaza and Syria. No sign of peace in the Middle East. We get the latest from Jeremy Diamond and his
special report from the West Bank.
Then --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want hospitals to be able to operate without the fear of being attacked. And we want Palestinians to have a chance at life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: -- the horrors of war in Gaza's hospitals. I hear from two surgeons featuring in the new documentary, "American Doctor."
Plus --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MYKHAILO FEDOROV, FORMER UKRAINIAN DEFENSE MINISTER (through translator): We are facing a systemic governance crisis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: -- Ukraine's ousted defense minister calls for wartime elections. Is Zelensky facing a crisis of government? I ask anti-corruption
activist Daria Kaleniuk.
Also ahead --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's the best and the worst thing all at once.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: -- masculinity and rage. "Baby Reindeer" creator, Richard Gadd, joins me to discuss his latest series, "Half Man," which explores a chaotic
and troubled male friendship.
Welcome to the program everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London.
Despite pressure from the Trump administration, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel appears in no mood for peace as elections loom there.
At least 15 Palestinians have been killed in Israeli airstrikes on Gaza since Monday. That is when Trump's envoy and son-in-law Jared Kushner met
Netanyahu in a bid to implement the peace plan.
Meantime, Israel hit a Syrian military airbase, citing an imminent deployment of Turkish troops. Both Turkey and Syria have called the move
untenable and unjustified. The United States has condemned it as an unnecessary escalation.
And it's not just in Syria and Gaza that America has expressed concern. In the West Bank, U.S. Ambassador to Israel Mike Huckabee has condemned
ongoing settler terrorism as an American citizen returns to his own West Bank home in an effort to protect it. CNN's Jeremy Diamond reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With a military escort leading the way and armed Israeli soldiers manning a checkpoint, the
journey to Loui Ridi's home in the occupied West Bank feels more like entering a restricted military area. That's because it is.
The Israeli military declared it a closed zone to non-residents last week after radical Israeli settlers made Ridi's home their latest target of
conquest, establishing an illegal outpost outside his gates and preventing anyone from coming in or out.
And yet, despite all the extra security, this is what Ridi found within an hour of arriving. Four Israeli settlers squatting right outside his home.
LOUI RIDI, WEST BANK HOMEOWNER BESIEGED BY SETTLERS: That's terrifying. That's truly terrifying that they're able to sit there, not fearing that
anyone will be arresting them. They are trespassing. They are illegal here under the international law, under the Israeli law, and the Israeli
military are here to move them. But they're still there.
DIAMOND (voice-over): For over a week, Ridi, a Palestinian American, has watched from Ohio via security cameras as Israeli settlers besieged his
West Bank home.
DIAMOND: You made it.
RIDI: I made it.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Now, he's finally joined his brother who's been trapped here under siege.
RIDI: It's a lot of emotion because I've been talking with him 24/7, watching him on the cameras, fearing for his life.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Ridi is now in the same boat with an American flag draped over his shoulder. He's hoping that his presence and this flag will
protect him.
[13:05:00]
RIDI: This flag is the most powerful flag in the world. My fear, the settlers taking this house, the first thing they do, they raise their own
flag. So, they have to take this flag down so they can raise the settler's flag. That's why I'm asking the U.S. officials and the embassy to protect
me and protect that flag.
DIAMOND: So, the Israeli military now has a regular presence outside of Loui's house. You can see one of those Israeli military vehicles right down
there. And in fact, two Israeli soldiers are currently patrolling right outside the gate to this home.
DIAMOND (voice-over): But that presence alone isn't enough to stop these settlers from trying to take this hilltop. They are clearly undeterred.
DIAMOND: Do you feel like if the military wanted to, they could get rid of the settlers?
RIDI: Absolutely. Absolutely. If they really want it and they give the OK from top of head, they could have done it probably within the first hour.
DIAMOND (voice-over): The next morning, Ridi comes face to face with this new reality, an Israeli settler trespassing in the restricted area.
RIDI: He's a terrorist. He needs to be removed from here. That's my house.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Rather than detaining him, Israeli soldiers prefer to negotiate until the settler walks away.
YASMINE, RIDI'S DAUGHTER: Did you bring food and water, Baba?
DIAMOND (voice-over): Ridi's 10-year-old daughter, Yasmine, is keeping tabs from Ohio.
YASMINE: Why couldn't you just say, I live, this is basically my house, so I don't need to know this stuff?
RIDI: Exactly. That's exactly what I've been telling everybody.
DIAMOND (voice-over): But there's only so much Ridi can promise his daughter.
DIAMOND: Were you able to tell your daughter that you're going to be safe?
RIDI: Maybe if I tell them that, just to ease their mind, but truly, I'm not feeling safe.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Qusra, the West Bank.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: And Jeremy is joining us now from Tel Aviv. Jeremy, you know your reporting is really quite extraordinary because that situation is
quite extraordinary, but you have access and you're talking to Ridi. He obviously is saying what he says. What about the American officials? This
is an American citizen. What are they saying about getting the government to, you know, grant American citizens safety and home ownership?
DIAMOND (on camera): Well, the U.S. ambassador to Israel, Mike Huckabee, has actually been quite strong in his statements about what's happening in
Qusra because of the fact that an American citizen is involved. He has referred to the Israeli settlers who've been besieging his home as
terrorists. He has said that the U.S. embassy has been very involved in speaking to the Israeli government about taking care of this issue.
But the reality, Christiane, is that there are still Israeli settlers roaming around Loui Ridi's home on a daily basis. He's been sending me
videos every single day, including just a few hours ago of Israeli settlers, again, either on foot or on ATVs coming in front of his home,
making threats in some cases, claiming that this is their land before ultimately soldiers come up to them and ask them to leave.
But what's not been happening is any kind of arrests of these settlers or going after the illegal settler outposts that have been established in this
area, not just right in front of Ridi's home, but nearby from where these settlers are actually coming, and that seems to be what's lacking from the
Israeli military to actually address this problem in a more permanent fashion.
AMANPOUR: Right. So, on the one hand, they're sort of a wall, a shield between Ridi's house and the settlers, and on the other hand they're not
doing the active pushing away. They're keeping them from storming the house.
But here's what I'm not sure that I understand, A, why not? And, B, why is it that the defense minister, Katz, has now talked about absolutely
changing the parameters of security from the IDF, the military, to the civilian police? Do you think that will help or hurt?
DIAMOND: Well, first of all, it seems quite unlikely that Katz is actually going to be able to make that happen. That's the kind of consensus
assessment here in Israel. In part because what that would mean is some -- a new form of de facto annexation of the West Bank by handing over control
over all law enforcement matters in the entire West Bank to the Israeli police, that would basically be a form of annexation.
Now, what's important to understand about the defense minister, Israel Katz, is that he has been one of the biggest allies of the Israeli settler
movement and one of the reasons why the Israeli military and the Israeli domestic intelligence services, the Shin Bet, has been so constrained in
dealing with Israeli settlers, that's because Katz one of the first things he did when he came into office as defense minister is he removed this tool
of administrative detention, not allowing the Israeli Shin Bet to use that tool against Israeli settlers, allowing them only to use it against
Palestinians in the West Bank.
[13:10:00]
And the Israeli military, when I've spoken to them, they've said that they feel quite constrained, that they don't feel like they have enough tools to
deal with this issue of settler violence. That being said, there are still tools that they could use, such as detaining these settlers, that they are
not. The reasons for why they are not are not exactly clear.
AMANPOUR: Yes, indeed. Of course, there is this election coming up. And, you know, lest we forget, the police are, you know, subservient or rather
answerable to the minister of police and the minister of security, who's Ben-Gvir, another far-right extremist in Netanyahu's government and a
committed settler himself.
On the other hand, Israel has announced or the IDF has announced that it's opening some investigations into some very high-profile killings in Gaza.
We just mentioned that there have been more, even in the wake of Jared Kushner's visit to Netanyahu. Specifically, they say they're going to open
an investigation into the IDF and its role in the killing of Hind Rajab, the five-year-old girl who was trapped in a car full of dead relatives in
January 24 and then finally basically killed in, you know, in what's going to be investigated.
Tell me why it's taken so long. Why do you think it's happening now? And are there any is there any real investigation to be done, given that so
much has been done to point the finger of responsibility?
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Yes. Well, indeed, Christian, the Israeli military announced today that it is launching a criminal investigation into
this incident that led to the killing of that five-year-old girl, Hind Rajab. In fact, when the Israeli military announced that today, it was part
of a conclusion of 150 fact-finding investigations that it has carried out into alleged war crimes in Gaza. And two of those that we know of so far
have been essentially referred for deeper criminal investigation, including this case involving Hind Rajab.
And the Israeli military is actually, for the very first time, in more than two and a half years, admitting that it was its forces that opened fire on
the vehicle that was carrying Hind and six of her family members. For the last two and a half years, the Israeli military at first said that they had
no connection to this incident, that they weren't even aware of it. Then they said that they were, quote, "not present near the vehicle or within
firing range." And now, today, for the very first time, they're finally admitting that Israeli forces did indeed open fire on that vehicle.
Now, it's not clear why it has taken so long, as you rightly point out, and why this is being announced today, other than it's in coordination with
other investigations that they have now concluded. I think the next question now is whether this criminal military investigation is actually
going to be leading anywhere, because we have seen repeatedly in the past the lack of accountability that exists within the Israeli military. We have
-- you know, there have been very, very rare cases where any Israeli soldiers have been prosecuted for killing Palestinians going back several
years now. So, this will be another test of that.
But as you know, Christiane, there was a lot of publicly available information, including investigations done by CNN and other news outlets
that already pointed quite conclusively to the Israeli military's involvement. But it's taken them until now to acknowledge that.
AMANPOUR: Yes. And an incredible feature film also, which is almost like a documentary in its reality. Jeremy, thank you very much, as always.
And now, there is also mounting danger to Palestinian health care workers in the West Bank. In the past few days, a nurse was shot, a doctor was
attacked by settlers, another was detained, and an ambulance pelted with stones. That's according to the NGO, Medical Aid for Palestinians.
The latest strikes in Gaza add to a growing death toll there, according to the Palestinian health authorities. Some 73,000 people have been killed in
Gaza since October 7. It is a bleak and brutal reality for health care workers.
"American Doctor" is a new documentary that follows surgeons who volunteered to serve in Gaza during the war. In the film, we witness them
delivering lifesaving treatment under near constant bombardment. Here's a clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want hungry kids to be fed. We want hospitals to be able to operate without the fear of being attacked. We want Palestinians to
have a chance at life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The ceasefire never, never was a reality. Israel broke it at every level that they could have, just like they did every other one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, the Israelis are going to do whatever they're going to do. But as an American, I just don't want my government involved
in crimes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[13:15:00]
AMANPOUR: It is a difficult watch, but with international journalists still barred by Israel from entering Gaza, these doctors' testimony is
crucial. Two of those -- Perlmutter and Feroze Sidhwa are joining me now. Welcome to the program.
I've obviously watched this documentary. There have been some exceptional reviews about it. And let me just start by asking you both what your
feelings are about what we've just been talking about, increased and constant attacks on health care workers in the West Bank and also in Gaza
against civilians. We've seen the attack on a cafe and another attack there that's killed at least 15 people, even in the last 24, 48 hours since Jared
Kushner was there talking to the prime minister. Mark, what are your feelings as you digest this news?
MARK PERLMUTTER, SUBJECT, "AMERICAN DOCTOR": I personally think that this is part of the Israeli government's, quote, "final solution," close quote,
for the Palestinian. You know, the Zionist government of Israel is simply boiling down to, I want their land and I'm willing to kill their children
to get it. Killing the press, and I've had press reporters that I've operated on there for high velocity gunshot wounds that were deliberately
targeted by snipers.
The absolute deliberate killing of children, I personally have seen children shot in both the chest and the head, are all designed to destroy
the population. The destruction of their food supply, the recent destruction of medical supplies in one of the four remaining hospitals, the
adoption of software programs that were altered in the United States to follow children home to their -- from the playground to their home so they
can blow up the entire apartment building with a 2,000-pound bomb. This is all part of the genocide.
It's an orchestrated, well-planned, three-dimensional chess game to our checkers about how to destroy a population of people simply so they can
have their land.
AMANPOUR: Before I move on to Feroze, Mark, I need to ask you, you are American and you're Jewish and you have used words like final solution,
genocide, that go back to what happened to the Jews. How difficult is it and how concerned are you or aware are you of the specific language that
you're using in this case? What has been the reaction to the way you describe what you've been doing and what you've been seeing?
PERLMUTTER: Well, first of all, I'm agnostic. I have Jewish heritage, but I don't think -- and this has never been a Jew versus Muslim conflict, not
since 1948 during the years of the Nakba and ever since. I meant what I said, there's never been a ceasefire. They've only been facades
orchestrated by Israel while they confined Gazans to an open-air prison. What's going on, which you've just reported on in the West Bank, has always
been going on in Gaza. This is simply just a simple land grab.
It has never been a Jew versus Muslim event. Israel has painted it that way. They have created the image of Muslims as terrorists. When the real
terrorists, if you study history, has always been the militant forces in Israel supported by the militant forces in our government.
AMANPOUR: Feroze Sidhwa, you know, again, this is a very, very difficult situation. Just being a doctor in Gaza under war must have been incredibly,
incredibly difficult. What do you remember? Tell me a little bit about the conditions that you were working under while you were there for a good
period of time.
FEROZE SIDHWA, SUBJECT, "AMERICAN DOCTOR": The conditions were horrible. I've been to Gaza twice. The first time was March and April of 2024, and
then again in March and April of 2025. I tried to go back in November, but I was blocked. The conditions are horrendous. They got worse from the first
time I was there to the second time I was there. In speaking to everybody who's there now and has been there recently, they're even getting worse
still.
The entire -- you know, when you destroy an entire society, all the way down to the level of the sewage system, I mean literally the sewage system
and the ability of people to even live indoors, for the most part, is gone. An anesthesiologist that I know well, Dr. Nizar (ph), he just texted me
yesterday with a video of him just soaked in sweat because he's living in this tent encampment where he lives under basically a plastic bag. And, you
know, in the sweltering heat of Gaza right now, he's just boiling in this tent.
There's no access to clean water. There's no access to sewage. Half the hospitals have been destroyed. And the few remaining hospitals that are
actually partially functioning, none of them fully functioning, are unable to cope with this.
[13:20:00]
You know, if you eradicate everything in a society that keeps people healthy, there's going to be mass death and disease, and that's exactly
what we're seeing.
AMANPOUR: I want to put a clip from the documentary to you. Both of you were at Nasser Hospital when it was struck for the first time. That was in
March of 2025. So, Feroze, a bomb came through the window of a patient that you had operated on the day before. Here's a little snippet of that
incident from the trailer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIDHWA: That bomb hit the building.
PERLMUTTER: There was a 15-year-old kid ready for discharge, that was incinerated.
SIDHWA: If I had gone down and been changing that kid's dressing, there would have been three bodies, and I would have been one of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: It must have been terrifying. How did you, Feroze, keep your cool and your medical professionalism under that kind of attack?
SIDHWA: You know, honestly, by looking at the Palestinians that were there, I don't mean to contradict you, but it's actually not the first time
Nasser has been struck. Nasser was laid siege to in February of 2024, and then again in March of 2024. It's been bombed. It's been shot at, all sorts
of destructions that have been there.
And, you know, I was actually -- like I think I mentioned it there, I was on my way down to this boy's room, Ibrahim. I had operated on him five days
before, fixed his colon, basically, from shrapnel injuries, and he was ready to go home. He was actually one of the few kids, or a few people
even, that didn't get a major surgical site infection, was actually recovering pretty well, and he was able to go home. His twin brother had
already been killed in December of 2024.
And then the day before, or actually the night before, he's going to be discharged. Yes, he's blown up in his hospital bed. I've never had that
happen before to any of my patients. It's pretty uncommon if you don't live in the Gaza Strip to have that happen to you.
And, you know, it's horrifying. I mean, I don't really know how we can be supporting such things, and honestly, it leaves me without words.
AMANPOUR: Can I ask you both, because I got a deep sense of not just you being committed -- or all three of you, committed medical workers, and
doctors, and surgeons who've gone to help save lives and do no harm, but I also got the sense that you were there as activists as well to obviously
send this news out to the world, but then to go back to the United States to try to talk to politicians and others who might be able to change
things. Would that be an accurate description, Dr. Mark Perlmutter, that you were also activists?
PERLMUTTER: We evolved into activists. We were there when the World Central Kitchen vans got destroyed on our first trip. Feroze and I were
together. And I had contacted Chuck Schumer's office, called his office, spoke to it four times from Gaza, contacted the American embassies, there's
two in Israel, on four different occasions to try to seek help, because we had a dozen Americans in our troop, and I wanted to secure their safety,
because we were going to drive on the same road with the same permission from Israel in a couple of weeks. They'd come back home, and I didn't want
to missile through our van, the roof our van either.
I got no response from Chuck Schumer's office. I got no response from the American embassy, and this whole time, on this intervening time, I'm sewing
together or pronouncing dead press workers, and then I realized finally on the way out of Gaza, there was a line of trucks that was 31 or so miles
long, eight trucks aside, these are 18-wheelers, filled with rotting food and dead animals that were being brought in for a food supply, and none of
them were coming into the then-still-open Rafah border.
36 miles, 31 miles of trucks, eight abreast, is enough to surround Gaza three to five times with trucks of supplies that Israel was not letting in.
And that -- the horror of what I saw the weeks before and what I saw on the way out, realizing that my government was taking no action to protect us,
realizing that the press was not allowed in, no foreign press was allowed in, and that they were targeting the denizen press, made us really the only
truth-tellers that were there. We were very uncomfortable even being on CNN while we were there, and then we largely received closed ears as we tried
to report the truth from all legacy media.
AMANPOUR: Well, you know, obviously we have protested, and I've protested so many times, the fact that we're not allowed in on behalf of us, on
behalf of just about anybody who I can name. It is really unconscionable that we can't get in. So, we do rely a lot on your kind of testimony.
[13:25:00]
And to that point, I do want to play this little clip, Mark, because it's about you talking with the director of the documentary, and she's feeling
uncomfortable with some of the images and feels that perhaps they should be blurred or pixelated. Let's just play this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PERLMUTTER: This is what my tax dollars did. What your tax dollars did. What my neighbor's tax dollars did. They have the right to know the truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: You know, this is an eternal issue. Even we sometimes have to, you know, put warnings on about what people are about to see, blur people's
faces, blur some of the worst, you know, scenes that are out there.
Feroze -- Dr. Feroze, do you think, in retrospect, that all that you did and all that you showed and all that you spoke about publicly while you
were doing it and when you'd come out helped move the dial? Because I don't need to tell you that opinions about what Israel did in Gaza have really
taken on a whole new, you know, reality.
SIDHWA: Yes, American opinions have definitely changed. I doubt it had anything to do with what I did specifically. I think mostly it had to do,
quite honestly, with the fact that the Palestinians were broadcasting a lot of this, a lot of the horror and violence that was being inflicted on them
day by day. And people could just see it on their phones, you know, before the social media apps were kind of closed up.
And, you know, that made an impression on people. You know, now somebody like Ms. Rachel is aware of what's going on. And that's kind of -- it's
kind of hard to put that genie back in the bottle when you've seen, you know, the official number is that 20,000 children have been killed in Gaza
by my estimate. And I think I'm the only person who's actually tried to figure this out. It's probably closer to 70,000. That's an enormous level
of killing. And it just couldn't be hidden anymore. So, honestly, I think that's what did it.
But, you know, getting back to the question you asked before about, you know, weren't you acting as activists? You're not wrong. But, you know, I
testify -- I'm a trauma surgeon and I testify at murder trials, at assault trials, at drunk driving trials all the time, because that's my job. When I
work in Ukraine and when I come back and write like I did in the American College of Surgeons and in the World Journal of Surgery about what I did
there, nobody says, oh, you're just a pro-Ukrainian activist or something like that.
Doctors are actually supposed to bear witness to crimes and are supposed to report them when they see them. And that's, you know, doubly and triply
true when we're the ones funding the crimes. So, you know, if somebody considers that activist work, that's fine.
But, you know, we were -- like Mark said, we're both quite uncomfortable in that role. But nobody else -- like you mentioned, nobody else was there.
International journalists are barred and Palestinian journalists are often ignored. So, we were the only ones left.
AMANPOUR: Well, Doctors Feroze and Mark, thank you very, very much for being on this program. And certainly, this film is getting a lot of
attention. So, thank you very much for talking to us about it.
PERLMUTTER: Thank you.
SIDHWA: Thank you.
AMANPOUR: And later in the program, anti-corruption activist Daria Kaleniuk joins me from Kyiv. We'll discuss the political crisis facing
Ukraine's president while Russia escalates its assault on that country.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:30:00]
AMANPOUR: We turn now to Ukraine and what could be a mounting political crisis for President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. His ousted defense minister calls
for elections, even now during the war. In a YouTube address, Mykhailo Fedorov called on his country to renew its, quote, "democratic process." He
becomes the first senior official to do so. Currently, Ukrainian law prevents elections being held during wartime.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MYKHAILO FEDOROV, FORMER UKRAINIAN DEFENSE MINISTER (through translator): What if the war continues for another year, two, three? Can Russia
effectively be given the right to dictate when Ukrainians can choose their government again? I am convinced that the answer is no.
Democracy cannot be held hostage by Russia. We are fighting precisely because we want to remain a free European state. Therefore, we must find a
legal, safe and realistic mechanism that will allow Ukraine to restore a full democratic process, even amidst a prolonged war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Fedorov also called out corruption that he says affected weapons getting to frontline soldiers.
Let's bring in anti-corruption activist Daria Kaleniuk, who's joining me now from Kyiv. Thank you for being on the program. Can I just first ask
you, how seriously are you taking any kind of political crisis? In other words, for Fedorov, who's very, very, very popular, to come out and make
this YouTube address. How -- does this really have legs, do you think? Is it what most people believe?
DARIA KALENIUK, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ANTI-CORRUPTION ACTION CENTRE: Most people demand Volodymyr Zelenskyy to finally speak honestly to its people
and explain his recent decisions. He found time to go and give interviews to many foreign medias, trying to find the reason why he fired quite
effective and popular minister of defense, but he didn't talk to his people who have been rallying in a peaceful protest for more than 30 days,
demanding to explain what was wrong with this minister.
But President Volodymyr Zelenskyy simply ignored its people, and therefore, the question about political accountability of President Zelenskyy to its
people began to grow and raise. And already before even this statement from Mykhailo Fedorov about the need for elections, there were more and more
questions from different Ukrainians about elections. Why?
What we can do in a wartime when our president is not responding to its people and when he's not open to answer complicated questions about his HR
decisions and also about internal corruption, which is happening on high level among his inner circle.
AMANPOUR: So, let me talk about that because it's a constant problem in Ukraine and it's very often bubbling up, the issue of corruption. And
you've dedicated your professional career to combating this. What can you tell us about how it's affecting the war itself, weapons, money, this and
that, especially for soldiers who are so beleaguered at the front with very little rotations?
KALENIUK: Ukrainian people again and again confirm in sociology polls that corruption is a largest security threat.
[13:35:00]
It is equal to many Ukrainians to the threat Russia poses through missiles, drones and all the attacks in the front line. Because we understand that
corruption is weakening our institutions from inside and weakening our ability to resist. It is destroying our ability to hire high effective
professional managers who can think outside of the box in order to find solutions to the complex challenges in this wartime.
And therefore, so many cases of large-scale corruption happening inside the inner circle of President Zelenskyy and the president just ignoring these
cases, still appointing on highest positions only people who are loyal to him or people of low integrity, that is unsatisfactory for Ukrainian
people.
And in Ukraine, we understand completely that the elections during wartime are risky, but the more risky for us, for many of us, is having the
president and having authorities who are not accountable to its people.
AMANPOUR: As you know, the president says he is accountable. He's trying to fight this. He fired his closest aide months ago. And some people say he
was practically deputy president. How do you think Zelenskyy is going to react to the direct call by a very popular politician, Mykhailo Fedorov,
for elections? I know he hasn't said anything yet. How do you think he, his party, the government, the system will react?
KALENIUK: While elections are prohibited in Ukraine by the war, and moreover by the consensus, it was the consensus until this summer that it's
unacceptable to have elections in wartime.
Volodymyr Zelenskyy himself was preparing for elections. So, we have the only politician who has all the resources of the state, who is not publicly
announcing that he's preparing for the elections, but he's doing some of the measures and decisions inside Ukraine, which indicate that he was
preparing for elections. For example, imposing sanctions against political opponents, triggering and discreditation campaigns from anonymous telegram
channels against everyone who is criticizing him.
And it includes not only political opponents, it includes independent media, it includes organizations like ours. Then appointing people into
important leadership positions in law enforcement institutions, not in order to guard the rule of law, but in order to safeguard his corrupt inner
circle. Attacking anti-corruption institutions like anti-corruption bodies, which are charging his inner circle for corruption.
So, all that decisions of Volodymyr Zelenskyy are not supported by the people of Ukraine, they indicate that we have the only politician who is
preparing for elections. He's disguising that preparations. But the sociology, the polls in Ukraine show that such kind of lack of honest,
straightforward adult communication with its people actually is not helping Volodymyr Zelenskyy as he's losing his credibility in Ukraine. And there
are more and more people who distrust him.
AMANPOUR: Daria Kaleniuk, thank you very much for being with us. And obviously, we're going to have to put this again to President Zelenskyy and
his inner circle. He just did an interview with CNN before all this call by Mykhailo Federov for elections.
Later in the program, Netflix program, "Baby Reindeer," captured audiences around the world. Now, its star, Richard Gadd, joins me to talk about his
physical transformation for his new show, "Half Man."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:40:00]
AMANPOUR: With just weeks away from the Emmys, and if past performance is an indicator of future results, my next guest is a shoo-in for multiple
awards. Richard Gadd broke onto the scene in a big way with his hit Netflix show, "Baby Reindeer." The fictionalized account of his experience with a
stalker won six Emmy Awards in 2024.
Now, Gadd is back with "Half Man." It follows the violent, conflicted relationship between two men who grew up together in Scotland. It dives
deep into timely questions of masculinity and rage. Here's a clip from the trailer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) moved into your room.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What? No way. He's a psycho. (INAUDIBLE), you know, doesn't bother you at all?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that your boyfriend
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are these guys bothering you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why do you care?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're family now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Really?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's the best and worst thing all at once.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: You can see "Half Man" on the BBC and on HBO Max, which, like CNN, is owned by Warner Brothers Discovery. And Richard Gadd is joining us
from Los Angeles. Welcome to the program.
RICHARD GADD, CREATOR AND ACTOR, "HALF MAN": Thank you.
AMANPOUR: So, look, you know, you went from the frying pan into the fire or whatever. "Baby Reindeer" was not exactly sugar-coated, and "Half Man"
is, I don't know, is it more bleak? It's certainly rough and tough. No idea of doing something slightly different?
GADD: Well, I'll think about it, I promise you. Yes, it might be a rom-com next, who knows. But I -- yes. I -- you know, life, I like to explore the
darker edges of life, the kind of difficult contradictions that we all kind of face on a daily basis as humans. I think, you know, in this day and age,
quite a lot of television is quite commercial and broad, and I like to try to dig deep into the idiosyncrasy and the difficulties of the human
condition. So, that's where these two shows come from.
AMANPOUR: So, tell me a little bit about the story. We know that "Baby Reindeer" was, you know, your character was being stalked, et cetera. That
was a huge success. This one is a very brittle, violent, loving relationship between two kin, essentially.
GADD: Yes, absolutely. Yes, yes, I wanted to basically show the kind of depths of male repression. Really, ultimately, the show has a lot of
violence in, and there's a lot of -- you know, the words that surround the show are these popular words now, you know, like toxic masculinity and
manosphere. But for me, aside from the kind of those sociopolitical terms, I think the show is about the difficulty of expression, particularly of a
slightly lost generation of men who grew up in, like, the '80s in the U.K., who grew up in a kind of less than accepting time. And it's about the
difficulty of expressing.
Ultimately, for me, the show is about the difficulties of them loving one another and loving themselves. And that, I think, is the great struggle
behind a lot of the masculinity crisis that we see today.
[13:45:00]
AMANPOUR: I want to take a quick look at least one clip that we have from "Half Man." You play Ruben, and you're sort of stepbrother, Niall, I think,
or is it Niall, is visiting you in prison.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can't go there. You've been learning to let go of your anger, have you not?
GADD: Yes, but now it's back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, no. Process it like they taught you. This is just grief, and you're shouldering it onto the nearest emotion that you --
GADD: Don't you psychoanalyse me. You don't know a damn thing about my emotions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I do a bit. I mean, my dad died too, remember?
GADD: At least you got the chance to say goodbye. Imagine not being there for him in his deathbed because some -- took it from you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, that'd be horrible.
GADD: Exactly. So, you think about that before you start talking about my damn emotions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: So, Ruben and Niall. And you couldn't look much -- you couldn't be looking more different. You underwent a pretty big transformation. If
you wouldn't mind me saying, you're a bit of a scrawny fellow in "Baby Reindeer." And now, you're -- you know, you're beefed up and, you know,
shirtless and all the rest of it. How did you go through that transformation?
GADD: Well, at my lightest, I was 68.8 kilograms when I did "Baby Reindeer." And I know you do pounds out here, but I'm struggling to do the
conversions in my head. And at my heaviest, I was about 108 kilograms on "Half Man."
I think I knew in order to go from Donny Dunn, who was quite a meek, very sensitive, kind of very neurotic soul, all the way to Ruben, who is the
kind of epitome of masculinity, male rage, violence, machismo, all these kinds of things, that I almost needed to change everything about myself the
way the world saw me. "Baby Reindeer" was so ubiquitous, you know, me in my comedy suit, very gaunt, very thin, that I knew the second I was seen on
camera as Ruben Pallister, it needed to be so different that people were drawn in by that. And so, I went through a pretty rigorous training regime,
dieting regime for about nine months. I was working out six times a day, sometimes twice a day. It was a crazy, crazy schedule for sure.
AMANPOUR: You didn't -- I think you didn't intend to be acting in this. What changed?
GADD: Well, a number of things changed. I think "Baby Reindeer" changed a bit of the narrative because suddenly I was -- I guess, I was like a
marketable personality, thanks to "Baby Reindeer," suddenly. And there was a calling from the channels for me to be in it in a meaningful way, from a
kind of marketing perspective and from all kinds of things.
And Jamie really wanted me to be in it. I remember I really wanted Jamie to play Niall. And when I flew out to L.A. to meet him, to kind of convince
him to be in the project and to discuss it with him, he said, I really want you to be in this. Have you thought about playing Ruben? And I sort of was
like, how did you land on that from Donny Dunn? It didn't kind of make sense for me. But he said, look, I really think you could do it. And then
the channels were kind of echoing similar sentiments.
And so, I had this really night of the long soul thinking about it, thinking about, oh, what if it goes wrong? What if I make a fool of myself?
What if people don't buy it? But I realized that all my thoughts were kind of fear of failure type thoughts, or worry of what people might think. And
I think if that's the reason for not doing something, then it's not a good enough reason.
AMANPOUR: Yes. And Jamie, of course, is Jamie Bell, who does play Niall, a great actor. You said that this fame of "Baby Reindeer" just made you into
a big, big, big property now. What is that like for you? What is this transformation from where you started to right now?
GADD: It's been a huge adjustment. I mean, I'm more used to it now. I think it's been over two years now since "Baby Reindeer" came out. But I
remember at the time, it was a real whirlpool. The show was a kind of -- "Baby Reindeer" was an arthouse show on a major television platform. And it
had all the spirits and trappings of an indie film.
So, really, when you do an indie film with idiosyncratic subject matter and dark subject matter, you never expected to have such commercial potential.
And then it came out on the Thursday. And I think by the Sunday, you know, my follower count was exploding through the roof. I was getting recognized
wherever I went. And it was literally overnight. And it was a huge, huge adjustment. It was a huge adjustment to just suddenly be in the public eye
to that extent and to just go about my daily life.
I'm used to it now. I love chatting to people in the streets. If people come up to me, that's totally fine. At the time, it was the most -- it was
just so overwhelming. But also, some of the best times as well. I mean, everyone wants to have a show that, you know, change -- is a cultural
discussion point. And "Baby Reindeer" was that. And I'm super proud of that.
AMANPOUR: Yes, I think that's super interesting, the cultural discussion point. Look, I'm just going to read you some quotes about this one.
Metacritic, the review website for TV, calls "Half Man," unsettlingly good TV. That quality seems to be at the heart of your work, the unsettling
nature of these men that you play.
Quote of yours in Variety, "Art should comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable." Tell me what you meant by that.
[13:50:00]
GADD: Well, I -- that's a quote that's -- that's not my quote, as much as I'd love to claim it. But I think it's a beautiful quote. And I think when
I was going through my darkest periods in life, I remember, you know, some of the stuff that I was exploring in "Baby Reindeer." I remember there was
nothing for me on television back then. I would have loved to have flicked the channel on and seen somebody going through what I was going through or
even any sort of human struggle I could relate to and grab onto. And I do believe that seeing struggle on TV helps people who are struggling kind of
make a little bit of peace with themselves.
And so, I always try to write the kind of difficult edges of humanity because I think that actually large portions of the world and large
portions of society are experiencing difficult things. And I think it's very true to life. And I think that one of the reasons "Baby Reindeer" was
so popular in the way that it was, was because I think a lot of the television landscape at that point had become a little kind of commercial
and maybe slightly homogenized. And I think it kind of really stood out. And it was very sort of reflective in its sense of human pain.
And I think one of the reasons "Baby Reindeer" was so popular was because I think the whole world at that point were kind of tapping into a sort of
post-COVID sense of human pain. And I think that that was one of the reasons it was so popular. And I will always try to write as to how I see
human life, which I think is innately challenging and contradictory and a whole load of things all at once.
AMANPOUR: Yes, indeed. Now, as we said, it got six Emmys, was one of the 10 most popular series on Netflix, boasted a perfect 100 percent approval
on Rotten Tomatoes. So, now that we've been talking about it, let's just play a clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please welcome to the stage Donny Dunn.
GADD: I'm really worried here. You can't let her affect us like this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's not her affecting us. It's you. I miss you.
GADD: Ladies and gentlemen, this is my stalker. Say hello to mom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't you say that to me. Apologize to me right now.
GADD: Can't take my mom anywhere.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: So, that's -- you know, that that's you basically and her saying it's not her affecting us. It's you. Is she saying that Donny is
responsible for bringing this all upon us?
GADD: Yes. I think one of the things I really wanted to explore. I mean, one of the things that was quite unique about the experience of stalking
that I never saw on television before was that I think on television I'd always stalking can be kind of, for lack of a better word, like sexy
stalking. Like you meet someone that they're normal and then they get slightly weirder and slightly weirder. And that was the kind of a common
archetype of the television shows around stalking, somebody would be really charming and then they would become less charming and more controlling and
more weird.
And to me, stalking wasn't like that. I had a great deal of empathy for the person and I really found it very hard to -- once know that somebody is
causing you great difficulty, but know at the same time that you need to shut it down. And I think at that time in my life, I lacked huge
confidence. I was going through huge changes in my life and struggling to come to terms with the past that I felt, in a lot of ways, I -- there were
moments I could have shut it down and I didn't. And I wanted to explore that because I thought it was an interesting.
And I think it's more common in -- I think it's more common than we like to admit in in in human condition to not shut things down and to let
situations go on past the point of being acceptable because of, you know, a people pleasing nature or a sort of our lack of decisiveness or an
inability to draw boundaries. And I wanted to explore that because I thought it was very true to life. And in a lot of ways, that's what's one
of the parts of the show that people responded to the most.
AMANPOUR: Well, Richard Gadd, thank you very much. And of course, we know that a lot of this started at the Edinburgh Fringe that's going on right
now. And you did say maybe a romcom. I know that you're very keen and you really love "The Office," which is not a romcom. But, you know, comedy
might be in your future. We'll wait and see. Great to have you on. Thank you.
GADD: Thanks so much. Lovely time. Thank you.
AMANPOUR: And finally, tonight, the singer, Angelique Kidjo, has cemented her place in history yesterday, becoming the first black African performer
to receive a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. The five-time Grammy winner received the honor for her music, but also for her advocacy on
behalf of young women and girls in her own home country of Benin in West Africa. She told fans at the ceremony that it doesn't matter where we come
from, what language we speak, what skin color we have. We are human. It is one human family.
[13:55:00]
Now, I spoke with Kidjo back in 2021 about what music means to her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGELIQUE KIDJO, SINGER: My whole entire life, I have been educated through music, through so many different genres of music, from traditional
music to all James Brown, to name some few. The thing that it is important to me that make me wake up every day is that inside each one of us, there
is strength, there is love. Us being on this earth is an act of love. So, why can't we just use the music to speak to people? I've come from that
kind of culture.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: And we can and we will. That's it for now. If you ever miss our show, you can find the latest episode shortly after it airs on our podcast.
And remember, you can always catch us online, on our website, and all-over social media. Thanks for watching, and goodbye from London.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:00:00]
END
