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Amanpour

Interview with Parents Circle - Families Forum Spokesperson Robi Damelin; Interview with Combatants for Peace Co-Founder Bassam Aramin; Interview with Former U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman; Interview with The Washington Post Director of Press Freedom Initiatives Jason Rezaian. Aired 1-2p ET

Aired October 07, 2026 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, and welcome to "Amanpour." Here's what's coming up.

A moment of silence as Israel commemorates three years since the October 7th massacre. I speak again with Bassam Aramin and Robi Damelin, breaching

the Palestinian-Israeli divide still searching for peace. Then --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: We're kicking Iran's ass. You do know that, right? It's going to end one way or the other. It's going to end very soon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: -- across the war-torn Middle East to Iran, where eight months on, there's no sign of resolution. Veteran U.S. diplomat Wendy Sherman

joins us.

And --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JASON REZAIAN, DIRECTOR OF PRESS FREEDOM INITIATIVES, THE WASHINGTON POST: The risks posed to journalists are different than they were 10 years ago

when I was abducted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: -- he spent 544 days in an Iranian prison. Now, journalist Jason Rezaian speaks to Hari Sreenivasan about threats to press freedom around

the world.

Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London.

Today, Israel mourns as the country marks three years since the brutal Hamas-led attack on October 7, 2023. 1,200 people were killed that day.

Hundreds were kidnapped, and the nation was traumatized. Then Israel launched an overwhelming attack on Gaza, seeking to destroy Hamas.

According to Gaza's health ministry, since October 2023, more than 74,000 Palestinians were killed, including more than 20,000 children. Almost 2

million people, or about 90 percent of Gaza's population, have been displaced.

Given the war's brutality and the allegations of war crimes, Israel has seen its standing on the world stage plummet. While Hamas is severely

degraded, it hasn't been destroyed. And while prospects for peace look further away than ever, some people remain dedicated to the cause of peace.

Robi Damelin and Bassam Aramin both know the cost of trying to do this and the heartbreak of this conflict all too well. In 2002, Robi's son David was

killed by a Palestinian sniper. In 2007, Bassam's young daughter Abir was shot and killed by Israeli police. And October 7th, Robi's friend Vivian

Silva, a veteran peace activist, was amongst those murdered by Hamas. Now, we want to talk to Robi and hopefully soon be joined by Bassam.

So, first to you, Robi, welcome back to our program. We've been talking to you, you know, quite a lot over periods of time, checking in since October

7th. And I just wanted to ask you today what you're feeling three years on.

ROBI DAMELIN, SPOKESPERSON, PARENTS CIRCLE - FAMILIES FORUM: You know, I was thinking a lot during the day about grief, about what's the meaning of

grief? Is it a political affiliation? Is the pain a blue and white flag or perhaps a Palestinian flag? I don't think so. I think the pain is the same

pain. And all day long, I've just been thinking how many people will be left after the media goes away with their pain and what mask they will wear

every day to manage to cope with that pain.

AMANPOUR: Tell me, Robi, a little about losing Vivian because she was not just a close friend of yours. She was well known for being a peace activist

despite everything.

DAMELIN: There were a lot of peace activists who were killed on that same day. And the extraordinary thing is that more than 80 families from the

south have joined the Parents Circle. And that is an extraordinary thing to see how quickly they came to the Parents Circle and how quickly they are

bringing a message all over the world to stop the violence.

[13:05:00]

I think that's somewhat of a miracle. You know, some people take something like 15 years to just get to the Parents Circle, but these people are

already functioning or working in schools. I think I told you the last time that we met that we were thrown out of all the schools in Israel. Of

course, we're not exactly the flavor of the day with the government. And we went to court, and we now have reestablished the fact that we can actually

go back into schools. But the whole world is so polarized.

And you know, after October, we had thousands of people turning to us to make us come and bring hope, which is a little bit ironic, actually. So,

what we did in the long run is create a program. It's called Listening from the Heart. We did this with Georgetown University, and it's made for

campuses all over the world for the students. You know, I've been to Columbia, to all the universities, to Harvard, to Barnard, to talk to the

students. It's so important. Because what should you say to these kids who care?

I think what you should say is, please, do some research. Look for the organizations that are working to stop this terrible occupation. Look for

the organizations. Like, it doesn't have to be the Parents Circle that I belong to. It could be Combatants for Peace. It could be any of the

organizations. It could be Breaking the Silence. And if you look at those organizations, find one that talks to you and start to support them, then

you will make a difference in our lives.

ARAMIN: So, important. Robi, you just mentioned Combatants for Peace, and that is the organization that your fellow traveler Bassam Aramin is in, and

he's the co-founder of that. So, Bassam, let me ask you what I started by asking Robi, that you have given your life since your own daughter was

killed by an Israeli police in 2002, and since Robi's son, as I said, was killed by a Palestinian sniper in 2007. You guys have given your life to

trying to do something different. How do you reflect on everything that's happened October 7th until now, three years later?

BASSAM ARAMIN, CO-FOUNDER, COMBATANTS FOR PEACE: Yes. Thank you, Christiane, for the invitation. In fact, I lost my daughter in 2007, and

Robi lost her son in 2002. In fact, this, what happened in October 7th, we always mentioned it 20 years before, and we said in one day it will blow up

in our faces.

You cannot occupy millions of people without accountability. One day it will be like enough is enough, and this is unfortunately what happened. So,

the pain is there, three years of killing, of mass killing, of tragedies, of torture, and it still continues, the destruction of Gaza, unfortunately.

And the ethnic cleansing policy, which is very clear in the West Bank by the new army, which called, according to the Israelis, the new terrorist

army of the settlers, how they start to stole the olives, to pick the olives instead of cutting the trees, which is something good, and instead

of killing or burning the sheep and goats, they stole them.

And the world is still looking at us, the peace council, that even the head of the peace council forget about it. Nothing changed. It's very

disappointed by the Israelis and the Palestinians. And I believe we, as the Parents Circle - Families Forum, we continue to work and to ask the people

to act in order to stop this occupation, because this is the root of the problem.

Always I said that, unfortunately, as long as the occupation continues, we will continue to sacrifice the blood of our kids from both sides. October

7th will prove that if there is peace agreement between the Israelis and the Palestinians, not the Israelis and the Saudis, not the Israelis and the

Iraqis, only the Palestinians are the guarantee of the Israeli security. Then, only then, we can live in peace, security, and stability, both sides,

which we really deserve.

AMANPOUR: I want to ask you both, but I'm going to go to Robi first and then come back to you. This is all wonderful to hear what you're saying,

that there's a constituency for peace and that you still believe in it, despite the horror of what happened, the massacres of October 7th, the

horrendous war and the devastation on Gaza, that you can still believe that there's something decent that can come out of this.

[13:10:00]

But, Robi, you know, you live in Israel. You see a traumatized people. You see a people who, you know, still cannot stand what happened. obviously,

three years ago, and are not necessarily bolstering the peace camp.

Just tell us, as you all head into elections, where does your camp stand? Is there any hope at all, or are people more believing that war and, you

know, the Netanyahu doctrine, so to speak, is what will keep Israel safe?

DAMELIN: It is heartbreaking. You know, this work has become more and more lonely. But that's the reason that we have to continue. I see the Parents

Circle. One day, there will be a political peace agreement. And then the Parents Circle will have to own a reconciliation process. This must sound a

bit naive to you. But if I gave up that hope, there would be no point in doing this work.

And, you know, Desmond Tutu always said, if you don't think people can change, then stop doing the work. And I believe that people can change. We

are still at war. To live in Israel today is I am so ashamed of what is happening, for instance, in the West Bank. And we have to draw attention to

that. We have to draw attention to the fact that the settlers are running rampant and doing exactly what they want. And many of the army are

supporting them, burning houses, killing people, killing sheep, ruining the olives.

Where has this behavior come from, and how can we possibly accept it? It's not easy for me to say these things. But if I don't, if I don't tell the

truth, there's no possibility that I could make change. Because if I don't believe that we have to tell the truth, there can be no reconciliation. And

it's heartbreaking to see how angry people are here. It's also heartbreaking to watch the world's attitude.

You know, I spent three months in New York now, and people would ask me, where are you from? I can easily say South Africa, right? My accent's not

exactly very Israeli. But I don't, because that's not an integrity. And then I say I'm from Israel, and there's this silence. And I say, look, you

know, I'm Israeli, but I'm not the government. We need, as lonely peace workers, to have that support. I'm not even talking about money.

I'm talking about moral support. We need the world to stop importing our conflict and to become part of the solution. We can't, it's too lonely to

do this. You can't imagine what it's like to have to fight daily and to try to change people's attitude when they are so angry. And the grief on the

Palestinian side is so intense, as well as here.

Today, I was listening to some of the members from the Parents Circle to see how tragic. You asked about Vivian Silver. I loved her because she was

a real peace worker. And her son is continuing the work, and he's now on our board. How extraordinary is that? This woman, if she would have been

taken hostage, I promise you, she would have done things and changed the world and come back and still been a peace worker.

And there are, amongst the women that were hostages, like Liat Atzili, who have now came back from hostage and are working for peace. So, there is

hope. We have to bring that hope to the world, and they have to stop importing us.

AMANPOUR: Thank you for telling us that. That's really important to know that there's still a little flicker of a flame burning for peace,

including, as you say, amongst the people who've been so violently desecrated, really.

Bassam, from your perspective, I read something recently that really surprised me because there will also be -- let me just ask you a question.

There will also be Palestinian elections at the end of November. They're legislative elections. And I read that there's actually a bit of a

majority, a small majority of people who do believe still in the two-state solution and who do believe that, whether they're in Gaza or wherever, that

they have to be able to negotiate, as you've sort of said, a settlement with Israel.

[13:15:00]

Do you feel you have the leaders on the ground now to convene that kind of political campaign?

ARAMIN: To be honest, it doesn't matter who is the Palestinian leader. It doesn't matter. It depends on the Israeli leader because they have the

keys. And before that, like the most peaceful president on Earth, it's Mahmoud Abbas. And we can see the result. He don't believe in resistance

even, not in struggling. And we can see the result.

So, it's, yes, from both sides, but it's more dependent on the Israeli side. According to the whole solution, of course, it's not a matter of

whole work, Christiane. It's failed because it's not written anywhere that we're going to continue killing each other forever. If you look back at the

conflicts around the world, just 80 years ago, 6 million victims. The Palestinians didn't kill 6 million Israelis, and the Israelis didn't kill 6

million Palestinians.

And there is a German ambassador in Tel Aviv. There is an Israeli ambassador in Berlin. It means we can do it. It means until it happens,

it's almost impossible. Four years after the Yom Kippur War, 1973, the peace agreement between Egypt and Israel. So, we will do it the minute that

the Israelis, especially, will say we cannot continue living like this. We cannot continue because we can live in peace and security, both sides in

one state or two states or five states. Otherwise, we will share the same piece of land as two big graveyards, so our kids and our families and our

people. And this is what we say in the Parents Circle.

We think that the common enemy between the Israelis and the Palestinians, it's the occupation itself. When it's in, there is no reason to fight or to

kill each other. We can live together, again, all side by side as a good neighbor and to recognize each other's human rights and national rights,

which was like an example for the Oslo Agreement, for example. So, everyone ready for it without oppression, without occupation. This is the main

issue.

AMANPOUR: Let me just ask you, finally, Bassam, when you talk to young Palestinians today, whether they're in the West Bank or wherever they might

be, what do they say to you, briefly, about this future that you're talking about?

ARAMIN: You know, for them, it's also -- it's very difficult because it's not to teach them. They are living on the ground. They are moving between

around 1,000 checkpoints, the way that you need to cross in 10 minutes. Sometimes it takes 10 hours or five hours or six hours.

At the same time, believe me, I was in Tel Aviv. I was everywhere in Israel. The Palestinians have more hope than the Israelis, which is

unbelievable. Many people join us from Gaza. Their pain is fresh, exactly like the Israelis. And you see them full of hope for the future. But they

need just to understand that both majority in Israel and Palestine, they want peace, but they don't trust each other. Our problem in the media and

the leaders.

AMANPOUR: Yes. OK. Yes. Let me finally ask Robi, then. You spoke about when you try to tell, you know, the story of peace, you know, it's

sometimes difficult. You called it lonely. What sort of reaction do you get when you are talking to people outside the Parents Circle?

DAMELIN: Well, that's what we do mainly. And I'm told, don't listen to that woman. She's poisoning your mind. And those are actually the people

that I want to talk to. It's not about closing people down. The basic lesson here is to learn how to listen with empathy, even if you don't

agree.

And so, yes, of course, we're faced all over the world and in Israel and in Palestine with people who are very anti what we are doing. And in many

ways, I understand that. I look at the kids in Israel, not with my grandchildren. They went straight from COVID into war, to another war. And

this is how they've lived for several years, before October, with COVID.

So, they are very sad and are lacking in hope, in many ways. They've missed out a couple of years of their life. And so, quite a lot of kids have

become much more right-wing. We will see what will happen in the elections.

[13:20:00]

One can only pray that there will be a change because Israel has become a pariah all over the world, and it breaks my heart to see that Israelis do

not understand the repercussions of what we are doing on the Jewish communities all over the world.

I was just in Germany for the elections and in Berlin, and that's very frightening of the far left, what they think of Jews, and of course in

Saxony. So, who would have ever imagined that that could happen, and who would imagine that what is happening in Europe in general, this tend

towards fascism. So, we have to find a way, all of us, to find leaders who can get us out of this amazing mess.

Hopefully, whoever takes over the government, and sometimes I have to say it's a bit of a Hobson's choice, you know, so you pick the best out of a

bad bunch. Nobody's talking obviously about peace or the occupation, because the minute they do that, they will lose their voters. So, I'm just

hoping that I'm so pleased that many countries are not allowing goods to come from the occupied territories. It's important.

AMANPOUR: That's a whole other story. We could talk more about that. Of course, there's a big problem now between the governments of the and Israel

on that issue. But listen, Robi Damelin and Bassam Aramin, I really appreciate you being on and giving us your very heartfelt reflections about

this horrendous anniversary and your hopes for what might come. Thank you so much for being with us.

And stay with CNN, because we'll be back after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Now, in attacking Hamas, Israel was attacking an Iranian sponsored proxy force in the three years since the war has spread across

the Middle East to Iran itself. But more than seven months after Israel and the United States launched their attack on Iran, there's no end in sight

for the conflict there. In fact, American leadership isn't even sure who they should be talking to.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Thanks to the men and women of America's armed forces, dozens of Iran's terrorist leaders have been blown out of

existence and straight through to the gates of hell. As you know, their leaders are gone. Their second group of leaders are gone. And the biggest

problem I have is nobody knows who the hell is running the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So, as the war drags on, attention is pulled away from the ongoing war in Ukraine with Putin doubling down on his war plan. Now, for

years, Wendy Sherman was central to these issues in government. She was lead U.S. negotiator for the Iran nuclear deal and in 2022, led talks with

Russia to try to head off Putin's all out invasion. And she's joining the program from Massachusetts now. Welcome back to our program.

WENDY SHERMAN, FORMER U.S. DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE: Thank you, Christiane. Good to be with you on this very sobering day.

[13:25:00]

AMANPOUR: Well, I think you heard some of what Robi and Bassam were telling me. I mean, the heartfelt nature of what they experienced and what

they're trying to hope comes out of this is really something to think that there are certain people who still believe that they can negotiate and do

what you all tried to do for decades, bring peace to that region.

SHERMAN: Yes, I was very heartened that there are still people, Israelis and Palestinians who have hope. We all want to have hope to get to peace in

the Middle East and peace in the world. As you point out, we're living in a time that I don't think any of us quite expected with the Putin's illegal

and horrific invasion of Ukraine continuing. Ukrainians being extraordinarily resilient and continuing to wage a war against this

horrible leader.

We have the Iran war continuing. There really is no war, no peace. We hear President Trump saying after the U.S. midterms, he might return to military

action using very violent words of annihilation at the U.N., in his remarks in Baltimore yesterday, talking about blowing Iran to hell. Words like this

really don't help. Don't help us to get to that peace.

And I think we will see what happens in the Israeli election at the end of this month. We'll see what happens in the Palestinian legislative

elections. And of course, what will happen here in the United States where policy may indeed change, or at least there will be pushback to what the

White House is trying to do. I think most importantly, in the United States and in every country in the world, people do want security. There's no

doubt about that. It's hard to have economic growth. It's hard to have the world you want for your children without security.

But it cannot only be about security. It has to be about putting in place those policies that will help bring the peace that we just heard from Robi

and Bassam.

AMANPOUR: So, look, that leads me clearly to stay on the Israel-Palestine issue because you know that it has totally flipped in terms of the

political balance in the United States. It's really part of a lot of the political elections and people who've been elected based on their policy

towards all of this.

So, I spoke to an American journalist of, I believe, Palestinian background -- Pakistani, sorry, Akbar Shahid Ahmed in his new book, "Crossing the Red

Line." He wrote about your administration or the Biden administration. Years of reporting on the team's Gaza decisions have convinced me the

administration's policy was a result of harrowing mismanagement and willful blindness. Officials had some good, if often misguided intentions, yet

their policy was dominated by timidity, ambition, callousness, and staggering hubris. It was choice by choice, a moral and strategic disaster,

but not a master plan. Do you recognize even some of that?

SHERMAN: So, not to excuse myself in any way, and I'll come back to that in a moment, but I left after two and a half years. So, I was not there on

October 7th and the horrifying slaughter in Gaza. But yes, I think that the world had changed, that the Biden administration, although steeped in

history and the president having enormous foreign policy experience, really did not have the fingertips for understanding how the world has changed and

needed to act with more courage and more decisiveness.

That was true in Ukraine in terms of giving weapons to Ukraine so that they could prosecute the war that was necessary, pushing back against Putin. And

it was true in the Middle East, not pushing back not only against the current Israeli government, not the Israelis, but the current government,

but also imploring all of the Gulf Arab partners to do what they needed to do to ensure a Palestinian future.

It is certainly something that Israel has to take some responsibility for to ensure their own peace and security, but it is also a responsibility of

the Gulf Arab states to be there for the Palestinians, and they have often not done so.

AMANPOUR: Yes. And I just wanted to ask you again regarding the U.S. -- you know, there are books coming out, obviously, on this anniversary and

officials who've left the administration, clearly after Trump won in 2024.

[13:30:00]

One of them is Brett McGurk, who was a national security official, who had given speeches on this issue not too long before October 7th, never

mentioning the Palestinian issue. You remember Jake Sullivan said just two weeks before October 7th that everything was surprisingly quiet, I'm

paraphrasing, but in that region, and then the whole thing blew up.

But in his book -- I think it's his book -- Brent is talking about listening to a very heated conversation, I suppose in the Oval Office, when

Biden called, apparently, Benjamin Netanyahu, B.B. Man, what the F are you doing, demanding about, you know, what happened when the World Central

Kitchen staff were killed? You think I'm Santa Claus? No Santa in Israel, pal. Essentially saying, I'm not going to give you the weapons to do this.

But then, not following through on that.

What does the telling of these behind-the-scenes stories tell you? You know, is everybody trying to cover their, you know, what? Are people really

saying, well, yes, there was a problem. We didn't follow through.

SHERMAN: Well, I don't know what people's intentions are here. I think that people try to share history as best they know it. What I think is most

important, Christiane, and we're seeing it, as you pointed out, playing out in these elections, is that the world has changed. The United States has

changed. There will be very vigorous debates in the next Congress about military assistance and aid to Israel, about selling weapons to Israel.

There will be very vigorous debate about the settlement activity in the West Bank. And I certainly hope that there will be ongoing discussions in

Israel about accountability for what happened on October 7th. I think it's a central issue in the campaign that's taking place in Israel right now.

So, I think we will see a lot of change coming, not just in the United Kingdom, where you sit, but in the United States as well, about what we are

going to do to understand that the world has changed, that the younger generation, it's certainly true in my family, may support, of course, a

Jewish state, but as vigorously support a future Palestinian state so that both can live in peace and security, to diminish the anti-Semitism in the

world, to diminish the Islamophobia in the world, to, in fact, come to a new understanding of where we need to be and how we should get there.

I hope all of these books, whatever the intentions, help to have that vigorous debate.

AMANPOUR: It's good to get it out in the light, for sure. But you can draw a straight line from October 7th horrors to the war on Iran. Where do you

think that is going? Because we talked a little bit about it. The president keeps saying he's going to do it maybe before the midterms, maybe after the

midterms, describing the Iranian leaders who they whacked, basically. Israel and the United States whacked all these leaders who you actually,

some of them, were part of your group that you were negotiating with.

So, where do you think there might be an opening in this current moment where Iran just keeps escalating to end this? And how do you think it's

going to end?

SHERMAN: So, I think that the Trump administration has misunderstood from the start the culture and the history of Iran. I do know Abbas Araghchi,

the foreign minister. He was my counterpart during these negotiations. And Iran, as you know very well, Christiane, given your own history, is a

culture of resistance. That's what the 1979 revolution was about. And they are not about to capitulate. They are willing to sacrifice their own people

to not only stay in power but to resist any kind of capitulation.

We've heard tiny pieces of potential for ongoing negotiations. We've seen other countries trying to mediate those negotiations. I can only hope that

back channels will continue and that people will pull the string that might lead to a negotiation because I can assure you there will not be a rapid

capitulation by Iran, no matter how much anybody might want that to happen.

And meanwhile, American citizens, as we will see in this election, have had it with rising prices, inability to buy a house, to drive. I'm living in

Western Massachusetts. Everybody here has to drive everywhere to get anywhere. You don't walk. And I can't imagine what people who have to do

day-to-day work do given the high price of gasoline. Diesel is undermining our farmers and creating worldwide economic problems.

[13:35:00]

So, I think this election here, the election in Israel, the legislative elections in Palestine, and as was just pointed out, the elections in

Europe, which are very consequential and about another big issue for every country, which is migration, will see enormous change. I hope it's change

in the direction that we heard from Robi and Bassam, and it's a change toward peace, not a change toward more poverty. And I think that's what

we're going to see in the next conflict.

AMANPOUR: Yes. I mean, that's the hope. But there's some very hard positions developing. You mentioned in Europe, a lot of them about

migration, but also the economy, the effects of the war, the Russia, you know, invasion of Ukraine and how it's really destabilized so much of

Europe.

How do you think this administration, particularly after the midterms, would be best placed to actually try to end this war and use President

Trump's, you know, bully pulpit and his relationship with Putin, who is inviting to the G20 in the United States to make it clear that this cannot

go on? Because Putin, he is showing no sign of understanding that he's certainly losing territory and is not on the winning side right now,

despite the horror he's inflicting on civilians across Ukrainian cities.

SHERMAN: Well, the Trump administration has at hand an ability to impose more sanctions on Russia, to be very tough on Russia. We have this

additional issue today of a potential plague, perhaps, and the president saying he's talking to Putin to find out what's really going on along with

the World Health Organization. So, there's a lot going on.

And today in Foreign Affairs, there's an article by Julianne Smith, our former ambassador to NATO, talking about all the warfare by Putin, trying

to roil all of the countries in this effort to try to engage all of Europe and put pressure on everyone. In fact, we all ought to be collectively

working together to put pressure on Putin. NATO should be working collectively to push back on this hybrid attempts. And Julie lays out some

ways to do that. The world has really not come together to put that pressure on Putin. I give Ukraine enormous, enormous credit for its

resilience. I'm hoping we get to a better place.

AMANPOUR: Yes. So, do we all. Wendy Sherman, thank you very much. Stay with CNN. We'll be back after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Press freedom is at a 25-year low, according to Reporters Without Borders. In the ongoing battle with the White House, journalists

from Politico were banned from boarding Air Force One. From the United States to Russia and China, Gaza and Iran, journalists face increasingly

hostile environments. It is a lived experience for our next guest.

In 2014, The Washington Post journalist Jason Rezaian was arrested in Iran, then convicted of espionage in a closed-door trial. He joins Hari

Sreenivasan to reflect on the growing threats to press freedom around the world.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HARI SREENIVASAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Christiane, thanks. Jason Rezaian, welcome back to the program. This January, it's been 10

years since you were freed from an Iranian prison where you spent 544 days. This is after you were taken when you were working for The Washington Post,

and you still are.

[13:40:00]

And now, you've kind of made advocating for the safety and freedom of journalist's part of your life's mission and work. And I wonder, when you

look across the landscape, domestically, internationally, what do you see when it comes to how journalists are being treated and how difficult this

job is becoming?

JASON REZAIAN, DIRECTOR OF PRESS FREEDOM INITIATIVES, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, thanks for having me back, Hari. When I first came back from that

experience and decided that I was going to stay in journalism, it was not with the intention of reporting on cases of journalists under threat,

attacks against the free press. But I started to see so many instances of it in so many different places. And I think they were being reported on as

one-offs, right?

You know, a journalist abducted or arrested in Myanmar, another one murdered in Slovakia. But as you started to look at these cases, not in

isolation, but as parts of larger trends in countries that were either already autocracies or sliding down an authoritarian path, it became quite

clear that lots and lots of governments were mimicking each other's treatment of the press.

And I think I wish I could say that my reporting on these cases and trends has made a difference, but it seems as though it's only getting worse.

SREENIVASAN: Here we are talking about, you know, three years after October 7, 2023, and that particular conflict now, the number of media

workers killed has surpassed 247 and counting. And I wonder, that's a big number, but what is the story that that number doesn't tell?

REZAIAN: Look, I mean, I think, first of all, we have lost almost all windows into gossip. Similar situation in Iran and other places in the

world, but the extreme vacuum that we are operating in when it comes to reporting on Gaza is making it very difficult for people to understand, in

a fulsome way, what the United States role was there and should be or shouldn't be, what sort of injustices and potential crimes are being

perpetrated against the people of Gaza by Israeli attacks. And it makes it really difficult for us to have an honest conversation about how to lessen

the devastation, how to support the reconstruction, and what things will look like moving forward.

And I think, you know, the freedom of the press and the media to operate in these places is so fundamental to our ability to properly understand,

right? And we've been robbed of that in this situation. The number of media workers killed there in the hundreds goes far beyond any other conflict

we've ever documented before.

And the truth is, even before October 7th, there was the killing of Palestinian-American journalist Shireen Abu Akleh, which we know was done

by the IDF, which we know, through various investigations, seems to have been a targeted killing of a journalist who was an American citizen. And

there's been no accountability in that case. How can we expect there to be accountability in the cases of so many others when even a U.S. citizen's

death is not accounted for?

SREENIVASAN: An IDF chief spokesman said about that killing, we are very sorry of the death of Shireen Abu Akleh in Israel. We value our democracy.

And in a democracy, we see high value in journalism and in a free press. We want journalists to feel safe in Israel, especially in wartime, even if

they criticize us. This was some time back.

You're reminding our audience also of your former colleague Jamal Khashoggi and the lack of accountability for his death, which is said to have been

the direction of what is supposed to be one of our closest allies.

REZAIAN: So, we're talking about two of our closest allies in Israel and Saudi Arabia. And I think that the message that these killings sends to

other leaders, friend and foe alike, is you can kill a journalist. You can kill an American journalist. You can kill journalists working for American

media. You can abduct them. You can take them hostage. And by and large, you're not going to have to pay a meaningful price for it. And I think

that's the wrong message to send.

[13:45:00]

SREENIVASAN: This is something that either somebody from the Trump administration or the Netanyahu administration talks about in terms of

trying to increase access for journalists. Because the Israeli position has been, when it comes to covering Gaza, that, look, they say that it's about

safety and security. Basically saying, you do this, you're on your own, and I can't protect you. You might be in harm's way.

REZAIAN: It -- you know, it resonates with me very clearly. I can remember times when I was reporting inside Iran with full permission and

transparency and being told by Iranian authorities, you know, you should stop reporting for a while. You should leave the country. We can't

guarantee your safety and security. We're not threatening you, but this can be a dangerous and volatile place. It's a very similar sort of attitude.

And the idea is intimidate people into silence. And when they're not willing to be silent, obscure the realities on the ground in other ways.

And I think, you know, it's an important conversation to have within the media. The risks posed to journalists are different than they were 10 years

ago when I was abducted. The number of these instances, whether it's, you know, acts of violence, use of heavy firepower against journalists,

abductions, lawfare, all of these things have increased immeasurably.

I think news organizations have to decide for themselves whether they're willing to take those risks to put people on the ground. But the

calculations have to be different than they were before because it is a much riskier business. But I think that smacks to me as kind of an excuse

by the Israeli government to keep people out and also to further absolve themselves of responsibility for the deaths of these journalists.

SREENIVASAN: You know, the Committee to Protect Journalists says that more journalists died in 2025 than in any year in the three decades that they've

been keeping track. You run something now at The Washington Post called the Freedom Desk. Explain to our audience what it is and why The Washington

Post needs to be doing it.

REZAIAN: Part of what I have tried to do at The Washington Post through some of our press freedom initiatives is to figure out ways to empower

exile journalists. People who've been working in countries like Iran, places like Gaza, China, Russia, India, where it's no longer hospitable to

be a journalist on the ground. But these are people with deep insight, contacts, experience. Let them help us tell the story of their homelands

rather than relying on secondhand accounts or parachuting people in for brief periods of reporting time. We put out a newsletter a couple of times

a week that highlights those cases.

And then a podcast that is conversations with people on the front lines of the fight for freedom of expression. We'll have an episode coming up with

Nobel laureate Maria Ressa, many others. Evan Gershkovich was on the show last week. We're just trying to raise these issues up to higher levels in

public consciousness.

SREENIVASAN: You just mentioned that you had Evan Gershkovich on the podcast and you've reported on him. He came out with a book recently. He

was a Wall Street Journal correspondent for members of our audience that don't know. He was arrested in Russia in March of 2023 under espionage

charges, and he was freed after 491 days, I think, in detention there. And there was part of a prisoner exchange.

But I wonder, when you had this conversation with him, you know, you two have a very, very kind of unique overlap of life experience. And what

similarities did you see in his story? What was so different?

REZAIAN: There were so many similarities in the window dressing of our cases. We are abducted, told that we're being accused of espionage, thrown

into isolation in prison. So, many aspects of confinement and the questions that one has when they are very suddenly thrust into an experience like

that when you're cut off from the rest of the world was so similar to my own.

What was really different, though, was that, you know, Evan seemed to have a very clear understanding of what was happening, that he was fodder for a

potential prisoner swap. In my case, it took many months for that to become clear to me. And part of that is because in the decade in between, there

have been so many of these cases.

[13:50:00]

Iran does it, Russia does it, China does it, Venezuela does it. Whole slew of other countries doing this to exert some leverage over the United States

in negotiations. And when you do it to a journalist, it's sort of a double whammy, right? It's an opportunity to, one, take someone of perceived high

value that will be of interest to the U.S. government in a hostage trade, because there's so much public outcry over our cases.

But two, it has this chilling effect on the media still working on the ground. If we can do this to the correspondent of the Wall Street Journal

or the Washington Post, we can do it to you, correspondent of local newspaper.

SREENIVASAN: And just recently, we've had the president be able to kick CNN and MS NOW out of the press pool.

REZAIAN: Look, these are things that we need to take very seriously. There's a reason that the freedom of the press is enshrined in the Bill of

Rights as literally the first amendment to what was already a very strong document. And I think that we have to take any one of these threats to our

ability to cover the White House or anywhere else very seriously. That being said, these threats are still nowhere near the level of what people

are experiencing in places like Russia, China, Iran, and so many other places around the world.

SREENIVASAN: What do you see as the cost of decreased journalism being practiced in all these different places around the world, including perhaps

the United States?

REZAIAN: The first piece of it is it becomes more and more difficult to hold power to an account when there aren't journalists there to cover the

goings-on of a state and a society. The second piece of it for me is really the human understanding part.

I went to Iran with the basic premise that this country that I happen to have family roots in, my father was from Iran, my mom came from the

Midwest. I had grown up in a period of time when the enmity between these two countries was so severe that it seemed almost impossible for Americans

to try and understand the points of view of ordinary Iranians. As a stand- in for the experience, the lived experience of Iranian people, all we had were the proclamations of the clerical leadership of that country.

I believe that we could go deeper, that we could explain what it's like to be a person on the ground in that country under the yoke of a repressive

system and also heavily impacted by an aggressive foreign policy from the United States of America. And I think we did that, and I think others have

done that.

It's really sad to me that since my own arrest, we've lost so much of that access. To me, that's a very illuminating example of what we lose. We need

that ability to understand the human experience of people on the other side of the world, to be informed about what happens over there and right here.

The idea of journalism, the importance of journalism is to help keep an electorate informed, to make wise choices. And if we're not able to do that

in places far and wide, we can't claim to be informed people.

SREENIVASAN: Jason Rezaian, thanks so much for your time.

REZAIAN: Thanks, Hari.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: I could not agree more with Jason there. And finally, one of the last stars of Hollywood's Golden Age, Eva Marie Saint, has died aged 102.

She rose to fame in the 1950s with her role in "On the Waterfront" alongside Marlon Brando, which made her name in cinematic history and

earned her an Oscar. Back in 2009, she reflected on what it was like to work on Hitchcock's "North by Northwest" opposite Cary Grant 50 years

earlier.

[13:55:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EVA MARIE SAINT, ACTRESS: Well, it was just a sheer joy. And the people I was working with, starting with Mr. Hitchcock and Cary and all the rest of

the cast, James Mason, Martin Landau. I mean, we just had such a good time. I don't remember one moment of angst, as they would say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: How wonderful. In a career spanning nine decades, Eva Marie Saint continued to work into her '90s. Among her later roles, Cybill

Shepherd's mother in the TV series "Moonlighting," Cybill Shepherd, of course.

That's it for now. Thank you for watching, and goodbye from London.

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