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Amanpour
Interview with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy; Interview with The New York Times Journalist Katrin Bennhold; Interview with Albanian MP and Protester Marjana Koceku; Interview with "One in a Million" Filmmaker Itab Azzam; Interview with "One in a Million" Filmmaker Jack Macinnes. Aired 1-2p ET
Aired October 22, 2026 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:00:00]
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello everyone and welcome to "Amanpour." Here's what's coming up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: We will do everything to bring peace closer, but we will not give chance Putin to win this war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Volodymyr Zelenskyy in his own words, the Ukrainian president tells me whether he can still count on America as he fights for his
country's survival.
Then from India to Albania we look at what's behind the Gen Z led protests rocking almost every corner of the globe.
Plus --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ITAB AZZAM, FILMMAKER, "ONE IN A MILLION": She was selling cigarettes in the street basically to fund -- help her family and fund the journey to
Europe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: -- "One in a Million," tracing the life of a Syrian refugee as she goes from girl to woman. Filmmakers Itab Azzam and Jack MacInnes join
Hari Sreenivasan.
Welcome to the program everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London.
When Volodymyr Zelenskyy, a comedian, was elected president of Ukraine in 2019 he likely could never have imagined that seven years later he'd be a
seasoned wartime leader defending his country against the aggressive and ruthless Russian President Vladimir Putin.
But this is the cold reality for him now heading into yet another winter of war. A possible make-or-break moment for Ukraine. And just when Zelenskyy
needs his strongest partner, the United States, the most the Trump administration appears to be cozying up to the Kremlin. U.S. Special Envoy
Steve Witkoff called Russian President Vladimir Putin a humanitarian just yesterday. The White House has invited him to the G20. And that Trump
diesel deal with Putin has angered many Republicans and American allies abroad.
It is a critical time for Ukraine and President Zelenskyy who's been increasingly vocal about what he feels is a U.S. betrayal is caught between
the devil of a conundrum. He says it'll be much harder for Ukraine to survive without American help.
Now, as the United States is floating another round of trilateral talks Zelenskyy made a heartfelt plea when he joined me from Kyiv.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: President Zelenskyy welcome to the program from Kyiv.
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: Thanks so much having to see you Christiane.
AMANPOUR: So, this is an incredibly important moment all of a sudden it looks like talks may be getting underway again. In Oslo you met with the
U.S. delegation the negotiators particularly Mr. Steve Witkoff.
ZELENSKYY: Yes. And I said that, look, we can call it ceasefire. We can call stop the killings. We can call freeze the conflict. The only one thing
what is important not the item the result. We have to move from the war time. We have to move to diplomatic way how to get real end of this war.
How to get peace. And this is very important.
AMANPOUR: OK.
ZELENSKYY: You know. Yes, between us. When it was the beginning of President Trump's storm he proposed unconditional ceasefire and we
supported Russia doesn't -- didn't, sorry. Then President Trump moved to stop the killings and we supported Russia is continuing now to kill us each
day. And today, we had also ballistic attack, massive attack. And then they said, maybe it's a peace conflict. Doesn't matter for Ukraine. Not -- it's
not about the name the result. Stop the killing, ceasefire or free the conflict and have strong security guarantees.
Because this is important. The most important thing security guarantees security peace not to give any chance for Russia for Putin or for other
Putins who will be in the future, I don't know, to come back to Ukraine and kill our people.
AMANPOUR: OK. Mr. President, can I ask you because Secretary Rubio who you've also spoken to told reporters yesterday that, as you say, the fight
is over, a lot of territory still concentrated on what happens to the remainder of the Donbas.
ZELENSKYY: So, first of all for us, our land is very important because it's about people. It's not about kilometers.
[13:05:00]
But then we want to speak about kilometers by the way just to remind everybody. Now, about 19.5, 19.4 percent of our territory is temporary
occupied. Not 25. So, it is 17, et cetera. This is important. Even want to speak about kilometers. But more important it's about people.
And a lot of people died defending this land defending our independence our country. A part of Donbas. It's a part of our country. And all this what is
occupied is temporary occupied. So, nobody will recognize these territories which are temporary occupied as Russian territories. And I think Russia
understands it. It's a pity if somebody doesn't understand. But it's up to them.
So, for me what is important to speak very clearly. So, stop the killings, ceasefire or freeze. Then diplomatic way of negotiations. If Putin was to
negotiate about territories, what Steve told me, not once, Jared and other people they know my attitude to it. And if they want to talk about our
territories, really want, Russians or Russians with negotiation position of Americans, they have to know that they will speak directly with me on the
level of leaders. It's my responsibility.
AMANPOUR: Yes.
ZELENSKYY: And people trust me --
AMANPOUR: Mr. President --
ZELENSKYY: And this is duty my duty to speak about it.
AMANPOUR: Yes. So, no talks about Ukraine without Ukraine as you've said many times. Do you trust right now that even if -- you know, real security
guarantees are put on the table that the U.S. the Trump administration would actually come to be able to impose those security guarantees if there
was another threat by Putin?
ZELENSKYY: I think that what is important that American side proposed bilateral security guarantees from American side to Ukraine. And of course,
I said to them it's better to all of us have strong security guarantees because it's a signal to Russia. All of us have to trust the security
guarantees in between us all the sides.
Because for me it's very important not only to have strong security guarantees from the United States. For me it's very important that Russia
will know that Ukraine has strong security guarantees from their strategic partners because Russia in this way will not think again to come with
occupation because it will it can be dangerous for them.
AMANPOUR: Mr. President, obviously there's been a lot of spotlight on the latest rupture in your relationship with President Trump. He's blaming you.
You're saying that he's on the wrong side of history with that diesel deal for Russia.
Are you stepping back from that personal criticism? Have you been, you know, advised that this might not be the best way to be public about it
since you need American help What are you feeling right now about this relationship?
ZELENSKYY: So, we have our partners. It's United States. And we have -- we need to have strong relations with our administration with Congress. And we
need bipartisan support. And this all is very important because it's not about days. It's not about personalities. And I hope that is for the case
for the future between us because we share the same values. And I think that we will be in the same security allies.
So, in any way Ukraine now is a strong part which can help NATO and be a member is better. But also, it's important for NATo have Ukraine. I think
so. And of course, my opinion to my attitude to Putin is very clear. I think that if we will lift sanctions, it will make him stronger. And that's
why I'm like a president. It's not something personal between me and President Trump.
And of course, I'm against of any lifting of sanctions. I always said it to European partners and I said it directly to American administration. I'm --
of course, I know what I do. I have to strengthen me, my country, my people, my army, but not my enemy. This is, I think, very clear and fair
between us. That's why I know that if you give something to Putin, he will need everything. He will want everything and will not come down before he
will eat all of this.
[13:10:00]
That's why I think that these sanctions it's like the first step. I hope that it will stop on it and chance to go back with this. But it can be news
-- new lifting of sanctions. And it will only give much more money for Putin for this war. And that's why I'm against it. And doesn't matter how
many people will speak with me with -- about my messages, rhetoric and -- I mean, this -- what matters? Who is on the right side? Me and my country, we
are on the right side. Our partners who support us, on the right side. Americans, on the right side.
And if some sometimes somebody makes not the things which are stressing us, it's been democracy, freedom, I have to speak about it.
AMANPOUR: Mr. President, can you tell me about the controversy over intelligence sharing over Starlink? Can you tell me what is the situation
now with intelligence sharing and the Musk-owned Starlink, you know, quality that you need there?
ZELENSKYY: Yes, of course. So, as I said yesterday, by the way or day before, we had conversation by phone with Secretary Rubio and we spoke
about how we raise these topics. And I said that we had real problems with intelligence. We are thankful for this.
But there is very sensitive information. It's only warning. Yes. When you know that Russia uses ballistic exactly this moment. It's been that we need
to give a signal to our population to civilians to go quickly as quick as possible to bomb shelters. So, it's all about lives. And that's why we
spoke about it. That was point number one.
Now, intelligence works. Why we raise this topic. Because we know how it works. And this is a big challenge and dangerous that we didn't get any
from any channels. We didn't get this message. That's why it was so dangerous for us. And I asked please give us intelligence back. And it
works now. Thanks to secretary. Thanks to Congress. Thanks to president.
I don't know who did it. I mean, I really don't know on what level. But thanks. It came back. Then the second about Starlinks and Starshield.
Starshield it's a military version of Starlink. We use these systems and we are thankful to government and SpaceX. Been thankful all this period of
time. I'm thankful to Europeans who paid for this.
So, one night can imagine all the drones what we use. And I will explain why it's so important. But all the drones began to be slow. Yes. And it was
not a technical problem because, between us it still doesn't work. So -- but it was limited. Then a little bit increased the speed. Yes. In some
days after all this noise. Yes. But now, it's still limited.
Why it's so important. I gave the -- an example with jet drones. The new generations of their drones. I mean, Russian drones but which are Iranians,
really. But Russia now produces them.
So, this drone attacked our schools, universities, bridges and of course, energy everything what you see. And we found a way how to destroy these
Iranian jet drones. It was our means, I think, unique instrument how to destroy these jet drones after all these massive attacks during August and
September. And it was our interceptors, new drones which are using with quick speed by Starlink. So, drones with Starlink.
And when Iranian drone goes with the speed 450 kilometers or 500 kilometers and your limit one night decreased to 70 or even to 100, you cannot destroy
anything. And this is terrible.
AMANPOUR: Who do you think did it?
ZELENSKYY: I don't know. It can be -- I mean, technically, it can do I think SpaceX. But the decision comes by themselves or from some
institutions. I don't know. It does -- it's not clear for me. But technically, it can be only one company.
AMANPOUR: OK. Is it up to speed? I don't understand. Is it up to -- is it back up to speed or not?
[13:15:00]
ZELENSKYY: No. We had enough speed to destroy Iranians Shaheds, 400 500 kilometers per hour. It's -- yes, it's more than 300 miles. Now, we had
maximum 100 miles. And it's very important not to --
AMANPOUR: You know, Mr. --
ZELENSKYY: -- not to be mistaken, it's not about the drones which you use or which you can use on Russian territory, it's not about deep strikes. So,
you can't say that, look -- and the Ukrainians attack some refineries or something like this. And that's why we limit it. No, no. We don't attack
Russians -- any Russians military goals or energy goals using Starlink. Never.
That's why I asked President Trump, and we and we asked SpaceX to open for us these. For what? I can explain to everybody that to understand that we
are responding. So, for what we really wanted to get the help about Starlink on the territory of Russia. Because after attacks on our civilian
infrastructure and energy we didn't have enough Patriot missiles.
So, the only one way is to block Russian launches of ballistic missiles. How you can block them? You can destroy them after the attacks. You can
destroy the launchers using Starlink or something similar. This is only one thing what we asked. But they never gave us this. Americans never gave us
this possibility. That's why it was strange. They limited us in Ukraine. It mean limited our possibility to defend.
AMANPOUR: And my final question. Clearly President Putin thinks that this winter he is going to break the back of Ukrainian resistance both morale
and on the front line and maybe with these negotiations. What is the risk for you for the civilians for the integrity of Ukraine this coming winter?
And what did you think about Steve Witkoff calling Putin a humanitarian, I guess for releasing that 74-year-old American?
ZELENSKYY: Yes. So, the last thing -- of course Putin wants to continue this war. And of course, American side can stop him. And of course, if
possibly American side can do it because of the different reasons. I mean, this -- Putin doesn't want and et cetera. Because I -- what I hear from
negotiators and Steve and Jared and president that they want to end this war.
And if they can't stop him, and I hope they will, and I hope that we will have negotiations some meetings some success, because the last meetings in
Norway was productive meeting between us. So -- but Putin is playing, you know, he's a player. So, it's a pity because he plays with the lives of
other people. And of course, he doesn't want to.
What we wanted from our partners not to give him possibility, be stronger and break us. For these we need next things not to lift sanctions from
Putin, not to give him additional money.
The second point is to give us better missiles. We are asking for our partners and we are asking very much. We have now from Europeans some
number. It's not enough to defend ourselves because our energy system is under attack, and bridges. The separation of Russia. They want to destroy
all the bridges. What is important. Yes. To understand the goal of Putin, break us, destroy, us kill us.
That's why we hope that American administration and negotiators and Congress and they will -- they know it. They understand that they will
support us. Not -- it's not -- by the way, it's not too much. And we pay for these missiles. We're asking -- I know that they are focusing on Middle
East, but I understand it's important. But everybody in Europe everybody from -- I mean, all of the leaders, we all see the number what Middle East
can get from American side. And I mean, it's another support to Ukraine.
We understand. We don't want to compare. We're just asking not to forget about us. We're thankful for all the support what's been done. We are
asking for critical important things about Patriot missiles. If energy, ceasefire is not supportive by Russian side. And we are asking if it's
possible to give us Starshield with normal speed to defend ourselves, great. If not, OK. We will survive and we will stay strong. We will try to
do it and we will do everything to bring peace closer. But we will not give chance Putin to win this war.
[13:20:00]
AMANPOUR: President Zelenskyy, thank you very much indeed for joining us at this very difficult time.
ZELENSKYY: Thank you very much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: So, firm and resolved, even as the drums of war beat again around the Middle East. Stay with CNN. We'll be right back after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
AMANPOUR: Next to Europe, where protests and unrest have swept several countries, driven in large part by disaffected youth. In France, weeks of
protests over underfunded schools have rocked the nation, leading to rioting this past weekend and an uncertain response from President Macron.
In Italy, people have taken to the streets over the cost of living, and after some protests became violent, the government has approved the
deployment of troops to Milan, increased penalties and expanded powers for detaining teenagers.
In Albania, student-led protests have gone on for more than a week, clashing with police as people demand better education and employment
prospects and an end to corruption. And in Serbia, this weekend's elections could see a Gen Z-led protest movement finally defeat the longtime leader
and nationalist, Aleksandar Vucic. And then there is India, the world's most populous democracy, taking its voting right demands to the streets,
too.
So, why are young people turning out in such numbers now, and what unites their causes? Marjana Koceku is an Albanian member of parliament who was
elected last year before quitting Prime Minister Edi Rama's Socialist Party this summer to join the street protests. And Katrin Bennhold is a longtime
journalist for The New York Times and now the current author of The World Newsletter. Both of you, welcome to the program.
Can I just ask you, Katrin, because you've been writing a lot about this, certainly in France and elsewhere? We sort of laid out what the genesis of
these protests were. What has it developed into? How do you read the current state of these protests and apparently another big one scheduled
for this coming weekend?
KATRIN BENNHOLD, JOURNALIST, THE NEW YORK TIMES: I mean, you're talking about the French ones or the protests in general?
AMANPOUR: The French ones to start with.
BENNHOLD: I mean, you know, look, the French state is clamping down right now. There's curfews and they're really worried about it because these
young people have political power. You know, they are disrupting things. And the fact is that we're in a situation in France where, you know, the
government does not have much to offer anybody really anymore because at the same time as you're seeing this unrest unfold, you also have a debt
crisis in the making where there's very little money at hand to be given to anyone making demands. And of course, you have a presidential election in
six months time.
You're seeing now that the far-right national rally led by Marine Le Pen is in the lead and it's probably going to get momentum from this. You have the
far-left of Jean-Luc Melenchon equally sort of instrumentalizing these protests and trying to sort of be on the side of the young protesters. And
the center, the political center, has really nothing to offer to the young protesters.
[13:25:00]
But, you know, the bigger point to make here about France and some of the other protests that we've seen in European countries is that young people
are a kind of shrinking demographic. And what this is about really is a distributional, you know, conflict because old people have been hogging a
lot of the resources in these very stretched government budgets. You know, 25 percent of the French budget goes to pensions and it's rising as our
societies age.
So, this distributional conflict, I would say, is at the heart of what we're seeing in Europe. It's very different from the Gen Z protests in the
Global South.
AMANPOUR: So, let's talk about, before we get to the Global South, let me ask you, Marjana, what is actually driving, is there anything specific or
is it broader, like Katrin says, what's driving the protests on the streets in Albania?
MARJANA KOCEKU, ALBANIAN MP AND PROTESTER: The protests that have started from students the recent week in Albania is much more than about its
education. It's a combination of weak governance, very strong party, and unable institutions to function in basements of meritocracy, transparency,
and accountability.
It started more than four months ago, actually, in a very peaceful way, and one of us called them in well-processed as well. And during that time, the
protesters have called upon the government for reflection and repeal of three main laws that have to do with these destroying the environment.
In regard to these very peaceful protests, they have taken arrogant answers and completely lack of accountability and transparency from the
institutions. And with the coming of students this autumn, a further escalation, it was warned before it happened. And we have seen it happen
now since one week. And what the demands of the students are is for a betterment of democracy in our country.
Since the recent years, we have faced a massive brain drain from students and young people of our country being forced to leave because of corruption
and lack of meritocracy in our country. So, it's not something only about education. I wouldn't say that it's part of the wave like in other
countries in Europe, because the foundation and the source of such protests in Albania derived from months ago regarding the huge corruption scandals
that happened from the government of Albania and lacking of accountability and transparency from our institutions.
AMANPOUR: Now, you run for parliament as a member of the current prime minister's party. You've seen since quit his party and you yourself have
joined the protests. What tipped you over the edge?
KOCEKU: It's been one year that I am part of the political life in Albania. And last year, I started this journey with a socialist party. I've
been an activist for environment and part of previous student protests in Albania. And my drive to join the politics come from the community where I
come from and the lack of the state attention during decades, not only from this government, but also previous one. And I considered this an
opportunity to contribute to some more laws into improving the sustainability and the nature of our country.
Soon to understand that this is not possible because other political plans were on the list from the group I was part before. When the Flamingo
protest started in Albania, as I am a Gen Z, I was born in the 2000s, I'm 25 and the same age with the most of protesters. I realized and it
definitely further motivated me to join them because this is where I felt that I belong and that I could give my contribution in a better way, in a
more honest way to the public service and on what we took the oath as a member of parliament to represent and to respect.
So, I support these protests and these demands that are very legitimate. They need full attention from the government and full institutional
accountability as well.
AMANPOUR: Katrin, I'm going to get back to Europe in a moment, but you raised the Global South and how what's happening in Europe, even though
it's Gen Z, is different from the Gen Z-led street protests in India, for instance. Talk to me about that. And it's quite interesting, the movement,
the political party that is rising to actually challenge the current prime minister, who I think has been in office for some 13 years or so.
BENNHOLD: Yes, it is interesting. And you know, I think it's the demographics of it that I mentioned earlier that really is the main
difference between Europe and the Global South.
[13:30:00]
Because in the Gen Z protests that we've seen really rolling across various countries, I mean, you know, they've deposed Nepal, in Bangladesh, in
Madagascar, in Peru. You know, these are very serious movements in countries where there is a youth bulge. So, you know, it's a very different
situation when you have an age, an average age in a country that is sort of in the mid-20s and, you know, compared to Europe where it's in the mid to
late 40s.
These young people are a growing demographic. They have real power, which is why governments are worried about them.
And in India, it's particularly interesting because, you know, Modi is not scared of the Congress Party, you know, he's not really that scared of
Rahul Gandhi. And it's become very clear that he's trying to cast that as his enemy and sort of trying to sideline almost these protesters, which
created a real problem for him a couple of months ago when they first took to the streets regarding these university entrance exams and actually that
resulted in a minister having to resign. And now, they're back on the streets after the scandal with the electoral rolls where, you know, many
votes have just been sort of eliminated from these electoral rolls -- voters basically.
And so, it's similar to what Marjana said, it's something that exceeds a specific demand as it was in the summer, it's now about democracy. And I
think, you know, being that disruptive force, that is not actually a political party, but that disruptive force with these young people who have
the demographic edge on the older people is a real danger, perhaps for the first time in a long time for Modi. And it's interesting that he is sort of
casting Congress as his enemy.
And the Congress Party, of course, just to add this one point, is instrumentalizing these young people as well, trying to sort of cast
themselves as their supporters, you know, trying to benefit from their support.
AMANPOUR: Yes, exactly. Where do you think it's headed in India? And then I want to know where you think all this is headed in Europe. But, Katrin,
where do you think this is headed in India?
BENNHOLD: It's hard to say. My colleague, Mujib, has been writing about how, you know, the government is clamping down very seriously. So, I mean,
you know, the young people are being detained. They're on the back foot right now, because there's a lot of state repression right now against
them, which shows how dangerous they're perceived to be.
It's hard to know where that goes from here, because we've seen these movements evolve and actually last many, many months. And as I said in the
past, you know, resulting actually in governments being toppled. I don't think we're anywhere near that point in India.
But depending on where -- how Rahul Gandhi plays his cards, you know, it may be something -- if he plays his cards right, and if he does help these
young people, it may actually result in a coalition, potentially, that helps him. I mean, it's the first time that he has a glimpse, perhaps, of
winning after losing time and time again.
The one thing I would say, to connect it back to Europe, I, you know, it's not super comparable, but there is an analogy in my mind, being German
myself and having parents who were sort of, you know, student protesters in 1968 in Germany and across, of course, Europe, there were these youth
protests then in America as well. It was the countercultural Vietnam moment.
And of course, at that point, we had our own youth bulge. Young people were rising demographically. And that was a real political force that resulted
in really a massive cultural change in our societies. In many ways, the advantages of the older generation, the boomers in France now that are
hogging those resources that younger people today are demonstrating against came out of that movement.
AMANPOUR: That's really fascinating, you know, perspective there. And I want to ask you again, Marjana, about not just Albania, but basically the
Western Balkans, because it's in your country, it's in Serbia. It's, you know, it's happening all around.
Do you think that it could change the government? Do you think the government of Edi Rama is at risk? Do you think it'll affect the elections
in Serbia, the Gen Z protests?
KOCEKU: I definitely believe that this protest that is happening in the streets of Albania, it's one of the strongest protests that we have at
least in the recent 20 years. And now, the narratives have changed. The social circumstances have changed.
The Gen Z is owning the information, is owning the way. And they act in a completely unexpected ways that even though the state owns all the
mechanisms, very often is cut out of the attention from the Gen Z and the way how they combine and how they organize each other. And this is at the
same time quite inspiring.
[13:35:00]
Regarding the protest in Belgrade and the students, it's very inspiring as well, their resistance and their consistence -- considering that how the
politics and the reality is in this country under the authoritarian regime of Vucic. And we are all looking forward into the election, students'
election, because I believe that it definitely has an effect, especially in the neighboring countries in the Western Balkans.
As a Gen Z, I strongly believe that the Gen Z is arising in a completely different form now and this way will not pass without some concrete
results. And regarding the government of Prime Minister Rama here in Albania, I believe that it has to step back. It has to step back because we
are passing through an extraordinary situation in our country. And we need to treat it in this way and not to pretend as if there is none. Otherwise,
it will get just worse.
AMANPOUR: OK. Let me just ask you quickly because you mentioned the Flamingo revolution, but apparently it all started with this real estate
development that actually Ivanka and Jared Kushner wanted to develop. And this is apparently what caused all the problems.
So, just very briefly, I mean, that impact, their impact is being felt. Is that going to go ahead, that real estate deal, the resort?
KOCEKU: There have been some pressure coming from the European Union Commission in order to change some laws and to be much more careful
regarding the environment as this is a very challenging chapter for our country regarding the legal frame and how it is executed.
Despite the transforming, let's say, of the Flamingo protest into the student protest, the Kushner resorts remain of a very important attention.
And for the moment, there are no ongoing projects. And this is definitely one of the most important calls of our country in order to protect this
land and not to sell Albanian land at all.
AMANPOUR: OK. All right. Marjana Koceku and Katrin Bennhold, thank you very much for being with us. It's really a fascinating movement that's
spreading up amongst the young around the world.
And stay with us. We'll be back after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
AMANPOUR: Nearly two years after the fall of the Assad regime, Syria is entering a new chapter. But for the millions of refugees who fled during
the war, the challenge is not just returning home, but finding their place in the country that it's become. It is the question at the heart of a new
documentary, "One in a Million," chronicles a girl's life from childhood to adulthood as she escapes Aleppo, begins a new life in Germany, and
eventually returns to her homeland. Here's part of the trailer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): A missile destroyed everything, our home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HARI SREENIVASAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Christiane, thanks. Itab Azzam, Jack MacInnes, thanks so much for joining us.
This is a beautiful film, and I guess let's start at the beginning here. This kind of starts in this town square in Turkey, and it's this young girl
selling cigarettes. How, Itab, did you even find her in the first place? What stood out about her?
[13:40:00]
ITAB AZZAM, FILMMAKER, "ONE IN A MILLION": Well, you know, we went to Turkey in 2015, which is like the height of the refugee crisis, that we
call it in Europe. And, you know, I'm Syrian myself, and I really wanted to make a film about Syrian refugees and about that experience. So, we went to
Turkey to this square called Basmane Square, where it's like a hub where smugglers and refugees do deals, basically.
And we spent two weeks there, and we met other families and other refugees, but, you know, suddenly, out of like nowhere, we were just like there with
the camera, this kind of, the face of this incredible child, who's Isra. She was looking at us and started smiling and started talking to us. And,
yes, we talked to her and her family, and she was selling cigarettes in the street, basically to fund, help her family and fund the journey to Europe.
And we kind of connected straight away and we kind of straight away knew that we want to make a film about her.
SREENIVASAN: Jack, by the time we get to the point in the film where they get on these boats, oh, my gosh. And you, here you are as a filmmaker,
watching these people, and, you know, the facts. You know that these boats are capsizing., you know, that people are drowning. There's a real
legitimate possibility that the people you are filming today might not make it.
JACK MACINNES, FILMMAKER, "ONE IN A MILLION": Yes, it was harrowing. While we were in that square, the picture of Aylan Kurdi, who was the child who
was washed up on the Turkish coastline was -- died. And the family were aware of that, and we were aware of that as we were filming.
And, as you say, we were in the midst of a place where not only were these smuggling gangs operating, but people were also selling things to refugees
as life jackets, as life aids, that if anything were going to bring them down, you know, that were not to task. It was so hard to get your head
around the disconnect between the horror of that and what was happening.
And the fact that this was almost like, you know, Central Station, you know, where people were just getting together and being so matter-of-fact
about taking these journeys.
SREENIVASAN: You know, I know that there are little cell phone clips of the actual crossing. How did the family describe that crossing to you?
Because we see a boat with way more people than should be on it.
MACINNES: There aren't any words for it. It's the stuff of nightmares. I mean, this is a family of 16 people. There were five young children amongst
them, and they're crammed in a dinghy that is designed for 12 people, and there's about 80 people in there.
And they were on the water for three and a half hours. They had no sense of where they're going. What happens is the smuggler drops them off on the
beach, puts them in this boat, gives one of the other refugees a five- minute tutorial on how to drive the boat and says, Greece is that way. And we -- you know, we had no idea if they were going to survive.
So, we took a $20 boat from Turkey to Greece and waited in a tourist hotel to see if these people were going to die. And that is the absurdity and the
horror of what was going on at that time and is still going on.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): A missile destroyed everything, our home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Oh, my god.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): We've known each other a long time, Israa.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Yes. Something like 10 years.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): you're still the same person?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I don't know. War is not the hardest thing a person can go through, it's not as hard as what comes
after.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SREENIVASAN: You know, Itab, it's not a spoiler in the film to give away the fact that they make it across, right? But what was fascinating is early
in the film, this young woman tells you that the hardest thing is really war is not the hardest thing that we can go through. It's really what comes
after. What happens after they make it to what they think is the promised land, right? Europe. There's a new start. They don't have to live under the
fear of bombs falling on their apartment and dying on the streets.
But what could be harder than that? And your story really just starts to show you that it's not that simple. It's not milk and honey and streets
paved with gold.
AZZAM: I guess people think that displacements end when people reach safety. And that's just completely not the case.
[13:45:00]
I guess what is meant by that is the experience of displacement is the hardest thing and it's the -- it's a lifelong, you know, process to find
your place in this new place that you arrived in and find your identity and belonging and adapt and integrate and all of that.
And you know -- and also, like, it's a completely different culture from the culture that you left and enabled to belong. You need to get -- you
know, get used to this new tradition and new laws and new everything. And that's hard. And we saw in the family how each one of them that kind of
process of integration broke them in different ways. And it took them a long time to really find themselves, I guess.
SREENIVASAN: Itab, it's almost like Tarek (ph) got the -- sort of be careful what you wish for, where freedom means a completely different thing
to his then wife and daughter. And some parts of it are maybe normal teenage rebellion, what any daughter might feel about her father. But it
was really poignant because you see these women developing their own senses of self.
AZZAM: Yes. I mean, Serene (ph), the mother back in Syria, they come from a very, very conservative background. Serene (ph) wasn't like -- she was
only allowed to kind of see her house and her parents' house. She only knew that street in Aleppo that she lived in. And she wasn't allowed to go to
school. So, she doesn't read or write.
And like we -- the first two weeks after we met them, we didn't hear anything from her. Like she was like completely silent. And suddenly, I
don't know if you remember in the film, we were crossing the Croatian border, freezing conditions, muddy. We were there for hours. And then she
looks at us and said, this is freedom. This is incredible for me.
And when she arrived in Germany, she started to learn about women's rights. She never heard that term before, and feminism. You live in a country that
protects women and protects, you know, mothers. And she suddenly -- you know, that's what she looked for all her life. You know, freedom and the
kind of right to live her life without, you know, abuse and to have her choices. And so, yes. And that's what she want.
And -- you know, and it's a completely different story for Israa. Because Israa -- you know, she went through war. She grew up before her. She wasn't
allowed to be a child. And she went through that journey. And she was really, really looking for love and belonging and stability and community
and that's why she kind of went a different way.
SREENIVASAN: You're looking at one specific family. But I think a lot of members of the audience, whether they're refugees or not, they start to see
themselves in these different characters. Everybody kind of has a migration story somewhere in their history.
And, you know, when you sit with that and say, this is really a much more universal story. You've figured out a way to do this with just one family
and this one particular patch of their lives. When did you figure out, OK, there is a natural end to this? Because you could check in with Israa
another 10 years from now and see where her life is, right, Jack?
MACINNES: I think it evolved for us that we obviously thought we were making a film about the Syrian experience and the Syrian crisis. The more
we got to the end of this, the more we realized we were making a film about something quite fundamental, you know, which is, you know, parenthood,
childhood, growing up, and how that is affected by something which is the reality for billions of people around the world. You know, so many of your
audience, so many people listening to this now, so many people we're talking to, as you say, who have migration in their story somewhere or have
just had to adapt to a new culture.
And so, in answer to your question about finding the end, we didn't film with Tarek, with Israa's father, for a few years because it had got too
tense and difficult between them. And we didn't feel like the film was over until that had been addressed, until we had somehow seen how that story
between them ended.
And we were out in Germany and it was on that day, we were on the train from London to Germany when we started to see Aleppo fall and Idlib fall
and we suddenly said, when I was saying to each other, I think Assad is going to go this weekend. And sure enough, you know, we woke up the next
morning and the Syrian regime had fallen. And we filmed the fall of the regime. And suddenly, it felt like, yes, OK, this is it. This is what this
film's been waiting for.
[13:50:00]
It's been waiting for the ring fence of this -- you know, the sort of this Syrian experience of exile and then suddenly, the opportunity of going
home. And then, suddenly, all of the themes that we'd been looking into Israa and her father and would they reconcile and, you know, a question had
opened up again which had never been there before, which is could they go back? And suddenly, this felt like this is what our film is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Look at my ruined country. I used to run around here and play ball.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I'm trying to imagine what it was like before.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): It was all high-rises, clean streets, a lot of trees and flowers. Every minute I spend here, I remember
even more. Here's the mosque. Oh God, yes. There's the car wash. This is the right street, I'm starting to remember, for me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SREENIVASAN: Years have passed, but the scale of devastation is so profound and the rubble that is still on the ground and people are
navigating through to try to start their lives. And what was important about following Israa to this place and just literally kind of watching her
and how she's feeling through this?
AZZAM: Yes. I mean, like I -- you know, I'm Syrian myself and I like -- through the years, I like experienced the exile and the -- you know,
through that film I feel like I kind of -- I was trying to express my own kind of emotions and my own kind of trying to belong in the way.
And, you know, seeing Syria being destroyed through the years and like bit- by-bit kind of losing any hope of kind of returning, it was devastating for me. And, you know, going back to Aleppo with her and seeing the destruction
and the poverty and the, you know, devastation really is really, really hard.
And I like, I myself is still kind of going through this kind of disaster because in the last two years also my family attacks on my community and my
family had to leave home and be displaced and all of that. So, the whole time I'm making this film I was just going through the same emotion and
same kind of loss and all of that as Israa.
SREENIVASAN: Itab, we see this struggle that Israa has, you know, her narrative arc in her own mind of who she is, what her identity is, how
Syrian she is and she, you know, in the beginning she's sort of like really specifically very proud of being from Aleppo and then you see this sort of
teenage years where she's just happy to speak more German than Arabic and you know, and then she's like, oh, I really want to be, you know, free and
European, et cetera.
And then in the -- you know, we take kind of a turn in the film where her identity is to go back to a little bit more of a conservative version of
life.
AZZAM: Well, I think like people think that integration is a kind of straightforward success story and it isn't and, you know, the kind of --
like finding your identity and belonging is kind of a lifetime of negotiations really. She always said to me like, I want to be a doctor, I
want to be a lawyer, and that's kind of what I hoped for her. And like at the beginning when she made kind of different choices from what I wanted
her to make, it was really hard for me, honestly like as a woman because I wanted her to be something else.
But then like I realized that really what the most important thing for her is like she just wanted to be happy and stable and, you know, she did find
the love of her life and for her is it's -- she's happy. And like she's now -- she's going back to school and she wants to work with the German
government. And so, she's doing like things in reverse. But, you know, that's her choices.
SREENIVASAN: Jack, I don't know if Israa has watched the film. If so, what does she think about it? What does she communicate to the two of you?
MACINNES: I think she's really proud of it. I think she would say it's helped her make sense of her story a bit. It's helped her make sense of
what her journey means and it's very important to her to show the world that, you know, Muslim women can be strong, multifaceted, what the value of
her faith is, of her values and that she sees herself as a bit of an ambassador for that and I think that's brilliant that we feel really proud
that we've been able to make that happen for her.
SREENIVASAN: Itab Azzam and Jack Mcinnes, thank you so much.
MACINNES: Thanks so much.
AZZAM: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[13:55:00]
AMANPOUR: What a story. And finally, kudos to an Australian colleague. This is the moment a TV reporter helped rescue a man trapped in a sinking
car today, just minutes before it was totally submerged. ABC's Will Murray was reporting on floods in the city of Brisbane when he saw the car stalled
in the water. His camera woman who captured the whole incident said, there was no doubt Murray and a bystander had saved a life. And who knows,
perhaps it will even help restore some trust in journalists.
That is it for now. If you ever miss our show, you can find the latest episode shortly after it airs on our podcast. And remember, you can always
catch us online, on our website, and all-over social media. Thank you for watching, and goodbye from London.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:00:00]
END
