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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Stocks Volatile As Trump's Trade War Explodes; Trudeau Hits Back At Trump's Tariffs, "A Very Dumb Thing To Do"; Soon: Trump's First Address To Congress Since Returning To Power; Zelenskyy: Clash With Trump "Regrettable", Now Ready To Negotiate Peace. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired March 04, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:00]
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Every year, pancake races held across the U.K. to mark the day before lent. What exactly is a pancake race you ask? Well, it's people racing, costumes optional, highly encouraged though, while flipping hotcakes in a frying pan.
And this year, there was someone dressed as an airplane, a crystal ball, what appears to be a construction worker. The first pancake race supposedly held back in 1445.
And THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now.
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: It's prices versus promises.
Let's head into THE ARENA.
This hour, market madness. Stock prices are volatile as President Trump ramps up his trade war, threatening to make inflation even worse. Will he give Americans an explanation tonight?
We're getting new details on the president's primetime address. Some of his allies are predicting fireworks while Democrats are still divided over how to respond.
And, regrettable. That's what Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is now calling his Oval Office clash with Trump declaring, he is ready to negotiate peace with Russia. I'll get reaction from a key Senate Republican.
Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's wonderful to have you with us on this Tuesday.
As President Trump prepares to speak to Congress and the nation tonight, his trade war is heating up even more. Steep new tariffs on Canada, Mexico and China are now in effect, and the question here is at what cost?
We just got one answer from Wall Street, where stock prices have been on a wild ride after yesterday's nosedive. The Dow Jones Industrial closing down more than 600 points just moments ago. At what cost does this come for all of us? Trump's tariffs will likely raise prices on products big and small,
including a number of things that you probably buy every single day, groceries, gas. Then there are cars, computers, toys, clothes. The CEO of Target saying it could just be a matter of days before prices in their stores start to go up.
And at what cost might this come for Trump politically? Because this is not what candidate Trump repeatedly promised.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to get those prices down.
We're going to bring down the energy prices fast, fast.
So when I went, I will immediately bring prices down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So what will the president say now about prices when he faces the American people tonight, an address like this is a rare chance to talk directly to an audience of millions, including potentially many who often otherwise tune out politics. And let's review what did voters tell us about why they sent Trump back to the White House?
Yes, there were absolutely concerns about crime and immigration, but far and away, the top issue for voters was costs. They wanted someone to bring down costs. And right now voters are telling us they do not think that President Trump has done enough. In fact, a recent CNN poll found that nearly two thirds of Americans, 62 percent, say that Trump has not gone far enough to reduce prices. Just 11 percent say that he has gone too far to do it.
So what will be the cost of President Trump's trade war? It's already very clear there's a significant cost on the world stage. He has damaged our relationship with our closest friend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUSTIN TRUDEAU, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: They've chosen to launch a trade war that will first and foremost, harm American families. They've chosen to sabotage their own agenda. That was supposed to usher in a new golden age for the United States.
Now, it's not in my habit to agree with the Wall Street Journal. But, Donald, they point out that even though you're a very smart guy, this is a very dumb thing to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So that jab there from the Canadian Prime Minister didn't go over so well with President Trump. He posted on his Truth Social platform a little while ago, promising a for tat response to those retaliatory tariffs from Canada. All right. Our panel is here. CNN political analyst Astead Herndon,
national political reporter for "The New York Times"; CNN chief national correspondent John King, Congresswoman Sara Jacobs, Democrat of California, and Republican strategist and CNN political commentator Brad Todd.
Welcome to all of you. Thank you so much for being here.
John King, I actually want to start with you because the -- the project of -- of your -- of your time at the moment and through the election year was talking to voters about what mattered most. Now we know that Trump had promised these tariffs, but he had also promised to lower prices over and over and over again.
[16:05:05]
And I want to play a little bit from some of the voters who talked to us through August into the fall about what they were looking for, and many of these folks were undecided or leaning toward Trump. So just for that context, let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The economy was definitely improved when he was in office.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The inflation thing is just wild.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want a person that's going to fix the economy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: And, of course, our numbers backed that up. A Fox News poll from October, the economy most important issue, 40 percent. The next closest issue was way down at 17. And that was immigration.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So rare is the politician who does something that might actually hurt him, and he knows its going to hurt him immediately, and this is going to hurt him. The disruption even before the tariff announcement, just the uncertainty was causing a lot of turmoil in prices, international trade.
Now, in the long run, some ranchers will love this. The ranchers who want to sell more American beef in America will love this. Some farmers, if you make soybeans and you're dependent on exports, they won't. It's the winter right now.
So the long term will be interesting to see how this plays out. And for all the inconsistencies of Donald Trump, this is an issue in which he has been consistent back to the 1970s about trade and tariff and America first, and rebuild American manufacturing, and don't be reliant on foreign markets. So he is consistent here.
But again, what, we're 43 days in, his numbers are flat or down a little bit. It is unfair of any president to say, well, 40 days in you promised to lower prices. But he did so repeatedly say I'll do it on day one, that he gets whacked for it anyway.
But this is something on which he is going to take a hit in the short term. It will be interesting to say tonight if he concedes that point, and if he talks about where he thinks you're going to get from this. I'm just --
HUNT: Have we ever seen him concede a point?
KING: No, but -- but it's just --
HUNT: To be fair.
And a lot -- if you -- if you talk to, you know, the brainy people, the people who are involved in trade, they understand the China piece of it, you know, okay, we get that China is an unfair player.
If you talk to Mexico and especially Canada, they're just flummoxed here because they think this -- this partnership, these this neighbor relationship is one of the most productive economic relationships in world history, that it works for everybody. And why?
They just don't get it. It's a big why.
HUNT: Yeah. Congressman, that I think John makes an interesting point that I mean, some of where Trump is coming from on these more protectionist policies, there are actually Democratic positions, right. Ask Sherrod Brown about NAFTA, for example, and you'll get a pretty interesting answer.
How do you square that with of course, what is very intense opposition right now from Democrats to Trump?
REP. SARA JACOBS (D-CA): Yeah. Look, I think that there are cases to be made about specific tariffs that you want to put in place in order to protect domestic industries. And I think a lot of Democrats support that the question is this broad based tariff that is going against our partners, that is just going to hurt American families and American workers.
And, you know, the USMCA, the sort of follow on to NAFTA, was negotiated between Democrats and Donald Trump. Donald Trump signed it. Many of the least pro-trade Democrats got on board because it had really strong worker protections. It had a lot of the things that people have long wanted to see from trade agreements.
And yet now, it's Donald Trump himself who's reneging on his own trade agreement.
HUNT: Brad Todd, what has the sort of reaction to this been among -- obviously, congressional Republicans are not exactly standing up to Trump publicly in a lot of aggressive ways, but especially this is really going to affect American farmers, not all of them, as I mean, it may affect some of them positively, as you point out. But there's a lot of people have got to be really upset about this.
What are you picking up from all the people you talk to on the Hill? BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, Republican Party today is
a heartland party. It's a workers party, and there is a big drive to bring manufacturing back to the United States in the Republican Party. And that's the benefit.
We've talked about the cost of the tariffs. There's going to be a benefit, too. You've seen Honda, the automaker this week decided they're going to make their new Civic hybrid in Indiana and not in Mexico as they had previously planned.
Apple is bringing $500 billion in new manufacturing to the U.S.
So there are going to be benefits. Donald Trump set these tariffs to take effect tonight because he's giving this speech tonight. You're going to hear a lot from him tonight about how he wants to reorient the U.S. economy and how he wants to reorient this North American trade system. I think in the end, he still sees Canada and Mexico as partners. But he there are concessions he wants.
ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah. It's clear. And I think the timing of it is really important. I do think we're going to get a message from the White House trying to lay out a story, and I think they have to. If there's been a warning sign in the slight dip in numbers that John is referencing, I think it's about the economy and tariffs. I think Donald Trump is now approval rating underwater on the economy. That's not where he was in the campaign.
Fifty-one percent of Americans in systems saying that they think the economy is getting worse. So I think that, again, it's too early to kind of be prescriptive on this. But I do think if the prices go up, there is an expectation of a political blowback. That's not clear. He has the kind of insulation for.
But when I posed this to some Republican supportive of him, I was like, what is the story? What should where are we going to hear? What I heard? Was this about fentanyl specifically with Mexico and -- and Canada, and also that they could be temporary and that he would, could reverse them if he feels like he's getting the type of investment on stopping drug policy.
[16:10:06]
If that's the message tonight, I think that's a more clear one because it's all been chaos. It's all been havoc. And I do think that's having a political effect even more so than some of his other, maybe more controversial social policies.
HUNT: Yeah.
TODD: The U.S. does have leverage, though. You know, Canada and Mexico are about 70 percent of their economy is related to trade, most of it with the United States. Here, only about a quarter of our economy is trade.
So there is leverage. And Canada does have duties on a lot of American products that he'd like to see dropped. JACOBS: But, you know, I think this fentanyl point is key, right?
Because yes, he says he wants to address fentanyl. And it's a huge issue.
I represent San Diego, a border community, and what we know is that 99 percent of all fentanyl that comes across the border comes across by United States citizens. So what are we going to have Mexicans doing more to not let U.S. citizens cross the border like we need to address fentanyl? These tariffs are not the way to do it.
KING: That's an interesting point in the sense that this is unfortunately part of what you have to deal with in the era of Trump, a lot of things, he says, are not backed up by the people who do the work. Just by coincidence, when I was in Canada, I bumped into DEA, FBI, and ICE people who were there meeting with their Canadian counterparts on the fentanyl issue.
And they say, yes, of course it's a problem because it's poisoning our children. But they say there's not a relationship in the world that works better than that relationship at the northern border. And Trump is always bashing it and saying it's horrible.
TODD: But even the New York Times this week had ran a story that said the cartels in Mexico, the leaders are locked down. They're afraid that the Mexican governments cracking down on the cartels isn't going to take effect. That's because the Mexican government, no question, tariffs are coming.
KING: No question about that, that this -- this Mexican president has been more aggressive than her predecessors, in part because she understands the pressure to slap tariffs on her.
HUNT: Yeah, John, I mean, one of the things we have seen Trump do is basically use these as threats, right? And obviously now, he's kind of followed through on it. How much of this do you think is still hanging out there as well? He just wants to be able to take it back at any moment. Or is this going to be a long term play?
KING: Well, to Astead's point. He has always done it and pulled it back. He just did it today. I think he's going to pull it back tonight, you know. And we're just texting with people on my team, texting with people we just talked to in Canada about what happens. You're sending something back across the border.
One of the complexities here is so many things are made in the United States. A piece from the United States goes into Canada or Mexico, then it's redone or added to like cars. They go back and forth.
HUNT: Chevy Equinox.
KING: So you try doing what the tariffs go on that these things go back and forth. So they have to read the rules to all of these things.
But there's no question he's doing it as leverage. The -- the thing is Trump is disruption. I mean, that is his middle name. Trump is disruption. He's -- the thing is again, it takes some courage for a politician to disrupt something that he was sent to Washington to fix, which is the economy. So he is hurting himself in the short term.
HERNDON: Yeah. I mean, that to me is the biggest thing is if target CEO is saying prices are going to go up in the week, what is the explanation from Republicans, from Donald Trump about why Americans are paying that? And I don't think we've gotten a clear one tonight might start that.
HUNT: Yeah. Very interesting.
All right, everybody, stand by.
Right now, I want you to tell me something I don't know. To all my sources and friends around town, you all know who you are. Check your inboxes. Here's the question were posing to all of you today. What is the most effective way for Democrats to oppose President Trump tonight? Should they keep it civil? Should they stay home? Should they disrupt the address?
You got until the bottom of the hour. We're going to take all your thoughts, tips, exclusives. If you're telling us it's the wrong question, telling me our panel is entirely wrong. Let us know and we'll let all of our viewers in on the conversation coming up later on this hour.
Up next here, new CNN reporting on President Trump's big night, including what one official tells CNN, will have Republicans clapping all night long.
Plus, a new offer today from Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy on a partial ceasefire to end Russia's war.
We're going to talk with a key Republican senator about the way forward. Markwayne Mullin -- Markwayne Mullin joins us in the arena.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:18:17]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Rush, in recognition of all that you have done for our nation, the millions of people a day that you speak to and that you inspire. I am proud to announce tonight that you will be receiving our country's highest civilian honor, the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Lights! Camera! Action! Ever the TV showman, producer, President Donald Trump has long relied on an element of surprise and drama during his addresses to congress. Like that moment from 2020 when he surprised the conservative commentator Rush Limbaugh with the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
You could see the surprise on Nancy Pelosi's face when that happened. Now, as Trump readies to address the Congress for the first time since
he's taken office a second time, sources are telling CNN that Trump has included a few theatrical moments in his speech that are specifically intended to resonate with viewers watching on TV, at home, and those made for TV moments could feature his highly visible and controversial adviser, Elon Musk, who we do expect to be in attendance.
Trump allies have been using one particular word to sum up what we can expect tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MIKE ROUNDS (R-SD): There's going to be some fireworks.
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF TEH HOUSE: Fireworks, you know, in a great way.
GOV. SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS (R), ARKANSAS: I don't think that we've ever expected anything other than fireworks from President Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Fireworks.
Joining us live from the White House with new reporting, CNN chief national affairs correspondent Jeff Zeleny.
Jeff, usually these days are kind of like, hurry up and wait affairs, but it's already been pretty busy over there. What are you hearing about what to expect tonight?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kasie, I'm told the phone has been ringing here at the White House, pretty much all day long, a different kind of fireworks perhaps.
[16:20:04]
Some Republican criticism and really venting over these, you know, this new trade war over the idea of tariffs.
I'm told that White House chief of staff Susie Wiles and other Republican advisers here have been hearing from some Republican senators and lawmakers about the concern of this. So the president is walking into a House chamber tonight where there is skepticism, and some criticism of some of his policies. Of course, he -- this is coming exactly four months after Election Day.
So White House officials are pointing to his popular vote win, the fact that he swept the battleground states, there's no question about that.
But I am told that the president is also going to pivot to and point to some of the executive orders he has signed on cultural issues. I think the trans sports issue, that he had a big event in the early days of his White House. He is going to talk about some of those accomplishments to try and blunt some of the criticism or skepticism from some of the actual policies that are in place here, namely, some of these farm state Republican senators have been deeply concerned. Also, just by some of his messaging.
He put out the message on social media and he said, my great American farmers have fun. So this is. Certainly not viewed as -- as fun, some markets, of course, might be a closing. But look, the bottom line is one official here tells me watch, our Republicans will be clapping all night long. They think largely because the president will mention tariffs, of course, but point to many issues super popular with the Trump base -- Kasie.
HUNT: All right. Jeff Zeleny for us at the White House -- sir, very grateful to you for bringing us this new reporting in our hour.
John King, what do you make of it?
KING: Well, it's interesting. Again, one of the criticisms of Donald Trump is that he only cares about Donald Trump. The issues that fire up the Trump base do fire up a lot of the Republican base.
However, let's assume Trump's not on the ballot again. If that becomes an issue, we'll talk about it after the midterm elections. The next election is the midterm elections. The next big election is a midterm election. And a lot of those Republicans, whether you're from farm state, not too many competitive districts in the farm states, but there are a few. There are a few.
Democrats are looking at a couple in Iowa, looking at one in Nebraska, you know, things like that. Those -- they -- they want to hear things that help them back home, right beyond the Republican base. And that's the question. That's a long ways off. It's a long ways off.
And again, Trump is hurting himself in the short term with the economic disruption. What really matters is how much do eggs cost and how much do milk costs and how much do avocados cost. And that's now brought in to the trade war.
How much does that cost, say, a year from now? Right, is the big question. But in the short term, you do have some Republicans and they do it in phone calls to the chief of staff. They don't say much publicly, because to publicly criticize Donald Trump is to get yourself chainsawed.
HUNT: To be crucified, right, by the base?
KING: They won't do it.
HUNT: Chainsawed, that's a better --
KING: They won't do it.
But you do hear -- you do hear a lot of jitters from Republicans. Is he going to remember us or is this all about him again?
HUNT: Yeah. Congresswoman, you are planning on bringing as your guest a restaurateur in your district who's likely to be affected by some of these tariffs. Um, how do you find some of these theatrical plays that the president often uses to try and point, you know, as Jeff notes, to other to other issues that are distractions from what you're focused on.
JACOBS: This is Trump's playbook to a tee, right? People voted for him to address the cost of living. Instead, he's doing things to make the costs higher. You know, the -- the small business owner I'm bringing has said that she's going to see the price of meat, the price of vegetables, the price of canned goods all go up when they already are barely making ends meet in the restaurant industry.
And so, to distract from that, he's going to talk about these social issues that are not what he was elected to do and are not why people -- you know, what people want him to be focusing on as, as we've seen. And so, you know, we are going to keep focusing on the impacts of what he's doing to our constituents, to the American people, because I think it's important that we stay focused on that and don't let him distract us with his theatrics and trying to talk about these social issues when it's all because he's not actually doing the thing he promised he was going to do, which is bring costs down.
HERNDON: I do think the theatrics of Trump are just core to his political strategy, as we've seen, but it also works like when on the trail, like there are so many moments of his that cut through uniquely that Democrats do not have a counterweight.
Throw in the Elon Musk other, maybe the second most famous person in the world, and there's an ability to command attention that Donald Trump has that no other politician remotely matches. And so I'm like --
HUNT: Yeah.
HERNDON: -- well, we'll see what happens with Zelenskyy on Friday, when we see DOGE and all of that, that is very clearly part of the strategy that has allowed him to cut through a different type of media environment and reach a different type of person. So even if it is clearly disconnected from the policy reasons people voted for him, as I totally agree with.
HUNT: Yeah, let's put up that that moment, of Elon musk with the chainsaw because I have to say like point of personal privilege in terms of these moments cutting through, this is the first time that my five and a half year old has ever, like, looked at the TV when news was playing and he said, mommy, did he win something?
[16:25:02]
He looks like he won something, right? Like that's -- it's sort of this like sense of victory in a in a picture. And, Brad, I'm interested in what you think of the Elon of it all because he is a theatrical piece of this. But he also -- I mean, there's always this question of like, is he going to upstage Trump? There's also the scenes of Elon and Trump in the Oval and their joint interview and all of that. TODD: Well, I mean, first off, I think Republicans believe we have an
advantage on cutting waste, fraud and abuse. We think Democrats ought to be joining us if they were smart. And to the extent that Elon represents that, I think that that is a -- that is a -- he will be a prop, if you will, to talk about the fact that were cut trying to cut waste, fraud and abuse.
I think you'll also hear a lot about immigration tonight. You know, in Joe Biden's average February, 165,000 people illegally crossed the border. Last month, in Donald Trump's February, 8000 people crossed.
This is a big moment where Democrats ought to be willing to cheer that success. And I think he's going to -- I think his sense of theater is going to put Democrats on the spot to see if they'll cheer this drop in border crossing.
KING: Musk is fascinating to me in the sense that when you find the Republicans who do have jitters, he's one of the reasons. You know, if you have a district that has a lot of federal workers, it's not -- it's not that -- Brad is exactly right. Even a lot of Democrats say this government has not been in the age of all these technological changes. Why has Washington not been taken by the ankles and shaken and modernized?
And in some agencies that means big cuts. In other agencies, it might mean more people, you might need more people for competitive things and things like that. But why hasn't it been changed? There's broad support for that. How they're doing it is what's going to be interesting.
And so you do get the idea that unelected billionaire, they keep changing their story about we've saved $800 billion. Well, actually, no never mind we didn't. And so the consistency and the transparency there -- there are some there. Again, it's a very -- they don't say it publicly that much. But there are Republicans out there muttering like this one looks a little dangerous.
HUNT: So, John, actually let me -- I want to play. We all saw Roger Marshall, the senator from Kansas, abruptly leave his town hall meeting after constituents, many of whom he says drove hours away, you know, from hours away. He left because they were talking to him about this very thing.
And there was one attendee at that meeting, his name is Chuck Nunn, and there were accusations that he was a paid actor as part of this. Well, he was interviewed and refuted that. Let's look at what he had to say. John, I want you to weigh in on this. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAM NUNN, TOWN HALL ATTENDEE: No, I wasn't paid -- paid. And if they, you know, it makes no sense if they were going to have a paid actor, they would pick somebody a hell of a lot better looking than I am, and someone that's much better spoken than I am.
(END VIDEO CLIP) HUNT: He's got a sense of humor.
KING: If he's not an actor, he should be -- because he's -- he's very. The man has a gift right there.
Look, look, we always have to be careful about these things because, yes, if you schedule a town hall, guess what? There's grass roots. There's going to be Astroturf. They're going to be people who see that on the schedule, who are going to come in, and they have every right to be there, by the way.
I mean, if they're not constituents, why are they doing it? But if -- if from your state, they have every right to be there. If you didn't vote for somebody, you still have every right to go in a public town hall and yell at them. That's okay.
So we have to be careful about making sure who are these people? And of course, the people who oppose Trump are going to organize and show up or oppose Republicans are going to organize and show up at their events. Welcome to life.
However, you know, let's assume that if there's a lot of volume at anybody's town hall, maybe some of it is not acting but organized, right? But there's still something to it, is there? Is there a little to it? So we have to be smart reporters and scrub it and get to it and get through it.
But again, some of it's organized. But I just had a rancher in Colorado voted for Trump, said he would vote for Trump again if he had to vote again tomorrow. But he looks at Elon Musk and he finds something fishy.
HUNT: Very nervous.
All right. Well, we'll -- we'll see tonight.
All right. Coming up next here, Republican Senator Markwayne Mullin is going to join us here in THE ARENA live. His view on how the president's new tariffs will impact Americans and how he wants Russia's war in Ukraine to end.
Plus, what will Democrats do tonight? Insight into their plans to make their own statement on this joint address this evening.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:33:24]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We want the Ukrainians to have a sovereign and an independent country. We think the Ukrainian troops have fought very bravely, but were at a point here where neither Europe or the United States nor the Ukrainians can continue this war indefinitely. The president has been very clear. He wants the Ukrainians to come to
the negotiating table. I think when the Ukrainians come to the negotiating table, everything is on the table.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Vice President J.D. Vance saying that Ukraine needs to come to the negotiating table. Ukraine now saying that they are ready to do that. In a lengthy post on X, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy praised President Trump's, quote, strong leadership and tried to move past their disastrous Oval Office meeting last week.
He wrote this, quote, our meeting in Washington at the White House on Friday did not go the way it was supposed to be, Zelenskyy wrote. Quote, it is regrettable that it happened this way. It is time to make things right. We would like future cooperation and communication to be constructive.
So will that be enough for President Trump?
Joining us now from Capitol Hill, a close ally of the president, Republican Senator Markwayne Mullin of Oklahoma.
Senator, thanks very much for being in the arena.
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R-OK): Kasie, thank you. Congratulations on the new show. I feel pretty special to be on your as your second day. So, best of luck with your show moving forward.
HUNT: You're very generous, sir. Thank you very much.
I know you talked with President Trump all the time. What do you know about how he reacted to what Zelenskyy has said today, and whether there's any update on the potential minerals deal that they were hoping to close in the Oval Office last week?
[16:35:01]
MULLIN: Well, I haven't spoke to the president today. He's got a lot of stuff on his mind. Going to deliver a great speech tonight.
But I will say it was very regrettable what took place. You know, the President Zelenskyy messed up during the campaign by going to Pennsylvania for Harris. That was one strike. Then you come to the Oval Office, the president is wanting to make a deal. He made it very clear he wants to make a deal on the minerals.
And then you move out and behave that direction, basically a slap on the hand that's feeding you. It's -- it wasn't a good move.
Now, I do believe the president can move past it. I do believe that a mineral deal can be struck, and I believe that peace can be brought to Ukraine, but it takes Zelenskyy willing to do that.
I will say, though, it didn't -- it didn't put us in a very good position negotiating peace. When they showed that there was a rift between President Zelenskyy and President Trump, I think that actually strengthens Putin's hand. And it was a big mistake on Zelenskyy's part behaving that way.
HUNT: Do you think Zelenskyy's statement today went far enough?
MULLIN: I think it's a beginning. I do believe that Zelenskyy has been signaling at this. You know, a couple of days ago, he said he was ready to sign a mineral deal, which is in their interest, right? If the American government and the American people invest in Ukraine and we start relying on the rare earth minerals that they have there, it becomes a national security risk for us. And it's in our interest to protect that supply chain.
And that's why I believe it was important that Zelenskyy sign that deal. What Zelenskyy did today is he did reach a hand out, he showed the olive branch, if that's what you want to say. He showed the olive branch to say, hey, the White House, we want to start again. The question will be, is he willing to negotiate a peace deal? Is he willing to come to the table and do whatever it takes to end the fighting?
Here's what we know. Ukraine can't win this fight. They can sustain it for so long, but they can't -- they can't win it. This is a no win situation for Russia and for Ukraine. President Trump made it very clear on the campaign trail that he wanted to end the killing. That's his number one goal.
Now, what is Zelenskyy willing to do to get that deal done? And what is Putin willing to do to get that done?
You have a guy at the table. You got a guy in the White House that literally wrote the bill -- wrote the book on the art of the deal. He will negotiate the best deal possible for both to come out and the best way possible to end the killing today.
HUNT: Senator, we've talked a lot about the relationship between Donald Trump and Zelenskyy, and that obviously has dramatically affected this process. But given that you do know the president well, how do you understand President Trump's relationship with Vladimir Putin?
MULLIN: Well, keep in mind, Reagan was criticized for his relationship with Gorbachev. And -- and here, here -- here's the issue that we have here. We have a foe --
HUNT: Well, Gorbachev was quite different figure than the former KGB agent that is Vladimir Putin.
MULLIN: Well, and keep in mind, Gorbachev was picked by the KGB -- KGB to be put in place to begin with and not -- we didn't know American people didn't know a whole lot about Gorbachev at the time. But we do know that he worked for the Kremlin, and there was an issue there. Reagan was strictly criticized for trying to build a relationship with him. He did that because he was wanting to end the cold war.
Here's what Reagan was facing. Either we make a make friends to some degree with a -- with a logical relationship, or we're going to end up fighting Russia. I think President Trump is seeing the same direction with Putin.
The Russian people are going to choose Putin to be the leader one way or the next. That's not our decision. That's their decision. And Russia is a threat. Or they can be a foe or they can be a friend.
What we want to have is to say, hey, we don't want to fight, but we will if we have to. But let's try building a relationship that's from a mutual standpoint. And President Trump sees that he's truly taking a book out of Reagan's book and saying, we're going to bring enemies a little closer and try building a relationship rather than just resorting to the fact that we're going to fight on one day.
HUNT: Do you think that President Trump has a stronger affinity for Vladimir Putin or Vladimir Zelenskyy in this back and forth?
MULLIN: I don't think he has an affection for really a stronger affection for either one. He just made a campaign promise. And the president has -- has so far since he's been in office. He said, making promises and keeping promises, promises made, promises kept. And -- and this is what he's trying to do, trying to end the fighting. That's his whole goal.
When he started this, he started it in Israel, with Hamas. And he's carrying it over to Russia and Ukraine. So I don't think he's picking sides. He's just trying to end the fighting.
HUNT: Fair enough.
Sir, let's talk for a moment about domestic politics. And of course, I know -- thank you for taking some time out of your very busy schedule. I know you make a point of meeting with basically every person that comes to the Capitol Hill from your home state of Oklahoma.
Obviously, there are a lot of farmers in your home state, and there has been this statement that was put out by the national farmers union expressing significant concerns about the tariffs that the president has let put into effect today from Canada and Mexico. They want real, tangible protections. They say, for the farmers directly affected.
Have you heard from farmers today about these concerns? And what do you say to President Trump about what is good for farmers, especially considering the way he framed his conversation and his attitude toward farmers on social media today?
MULLIN: Well, listen, I count myself in that group of -- of ranchers and farmers, many of these individuals are friends and -- and relatives of mine. The issue that were running into, though, we have fentanyl that's in our backyards, and its affected every one of us. It's affected our families. It's affected our friends. It's affected our communities, our cities, our schools and our state.
And -- and we would rather Canada and Mexico work with us. This isn't about just imposing tariffs because we want to. It's that they're allowing illegal activities to flow from their countries into our country, and we're asking them to help and they're not willing to help.
And this is President Trump's agenda. When he said he's putting America first. This is part of it. Now, does it hurt our homes? Does it hurt our -- our finances? Does it hurt our communities?
Yes. But we understand that we need to get America back on track. And we got to stop the criminal activity, the flow of illegal activity coming across our northern or southern border is wreaking havoc in our communities and our states, and we have to fix that.
We all want to live in a safe community. We all want to know that our kids are going to be able to make it home. We all want to know that our kids can go to a ball game or go away to college, and they're going to come home safe one day, not face the criminal activity that's coming across our border. And that has to be solved.
What we would love to do is we would love to have Governor Trudeau work with us on the northern border and help solve that issue. We would love to have Mexico work with us and solve that issue. Why they don't want to, and why they're allowing cartels to openly work in their countries following their illegal activities to us is the bigger question. Why are they allowing that to take place?
HUNT: Not sure if you're calling him governor Trudeau was -- was intentional, since Donald Trump often calls it the 51st state.
MULLIN: It was intentional, 100 percent, Kasie.
HUNT: All right, fair enough.
MULLIN: It was -- it was 100 percent intentional, yeah.
HUNT: Okay. Senator Markwayne Mullin, I really am so grateful to have you join THE ARENA. I really do hope you'll come back. Thank you very much for your perspective.
MULLIN: Thank you, Kasie.
HUNT: All right. Coming up next, one of the most recognizable Democrats on Capitol Hill going to take a pass on attending the president's speech tonight. So that's one answer to our question about how Democrats should oppose Trump tonight. Coming up, we're going to tell you what else our sources are saying.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:47:28]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: The reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally.
REP. JOE WILSON (R-SC): You lie!
OBAMA: It's not true. JOE BIDEN, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Anybody who doubts it, contact my
office. I'll give you a copy. I'll give you a copy of the proposal.
TRUMP: Thank you very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Who can forget, then Speaker Nancy Pelosi giving her assessment of Trump's final State of the Union Address during his first term two decades ago, booing the president at a joint address was incredibly controversial.
In 2005, people were absolutely outraged when President George W. Bush faced this moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: By the year 2042, the entire system would be exhausted and bankrupt, if steps are not taken to avert that outcome.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: That really just kind of qualifies as a murmur of disapproval. It was considered incredibly controversial and incredibly disrespectful at the time. And obviously, what we saw at the beginning shows you just how much times have changed.
In addition to those moments, Republicans heckled Biden in his last three State of the Union Addresses.
So how are we going to see Democrats conduct themselves tonight? This has been a big question, and we put it to all of our sources and friends. We asked you to tell us something that we don't know. The question was, what's the most effective way for Democrats to oppose President Trump tonight?
So here's what some of you had to say.
One Democratic member of Congress wrote in and says it's a challenge on how to manage it. Some can skip it, others cannot. Of course, referring to everyone's personal politics.
Now, a Republican strategist tells us the more you try to compete basically with Trump, the stupider you look. And this actually got a ton of responses today. These are just some of the top two, top couple ones.
John king, you have seen so many of these. This is really becoming a generational divide as well in Democratic Party. One strategist told me oversight letters aren't getting the job done. Democrats need to see full generational change. People should absolutely walk out or disrupt. What say you?
What are we seeing? KING: Astead made the key point earlier, that Donald Trump is really
good at this. He's really good at this. He knows how to communicate this way. He knows how to cut through.
He has an ecosphere. Whether it's Elon Musk's X or this podcast universe out there. That is how people under the age of 40 communicate.
[16:50:03]
They don't watch, you know, cable news programs, unfortunately. And he's really good at it.
So if you're a Democrat, number one, one of the interesting, when Joe Biden was president, usually the party out of power has this search. Who's our leader? What do we want to talk about? Who's our best spokesman or spokeswoman, right?
Donald Trump was that person for four years when Joe Biden was president. The Republicans didn't have that problem. The Democrats have it now.
So are you going to do a stunt thing in that room? You'll get attention in your district. It will help you raise money. Have you seen your inbox just today?
A lot of Democrats, a lot of emails today because they think this is a moment to raise money. It's smart. I'm not criticizing them. You're trying to raise money to try to keep your campaign organization going. So they've chosen today to like flood the zone, thinking today is the day Democrats will be animated to maybe give some money.
But look, I actually believe in respect. I was raised to believe in respect. It's the president's speech. If he says something egregious, you can sit on your hands. That's fine.
In the social media age, I guess people do more than that. I don't think you win. I agree with the strategists. I don't think you win.
I just -- you know, again, again, if you're Marjorie Taylor Greene, you think you win because you have a very safe district and you raise a lot of money. Does it win you influence in Congress? Do you think there's anybody in Congress who listens to her on a key policy issue? So --
HUNT: She is kind of trying to change that. But your point is absolutely taken, and I'm not sure how far she's gotten with it.
Sara Jacobs, Congresswoman, I want to ask you, because you're making a decision about this, you are planning to attend. And there was actually a top Democratic White House official who wrote in and said that this is keeping it civil is the right move. Trump will be at the podium and in control of the room.
And I do want to show you what Hakeem Jeffries, of course, the House Democratic leader, had to say about this earlier today. Take a look. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY), MINORITY LEADER: It's not his house. It's the people's house, and the 215 of us who serve on the House Democratic side. And my view is we shouldn't let him come in there and just speak to a group of sycophants who are going to applaud at every single thing he says or does, like lapdogs. He's got to also know that there's a significant opposition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: What's your view, Congresswoman?
JACOBS: Look, I agree with Leader Jeffries. It's why I plan on attending. I think it's important that as he's giving the speech, he has to talk to us. He has to see that there is disapproval. He doesn't just get a room, an approving audience.
But that doesn't mean that we are condoning or supporting the things he's saying. And we are going to be pushing back, in all the ways that we can, because while he is good at the attention, the thing that cuts through the most is peoples actual lived experience, and people are hurting and they are going to continue to be hurt -- to be hurt by his policies. And that's what we're going to highlight.
HERNDON: Yeah, I think that that makes a lot of sense. I don't think these individual big moments create the kind of lasting change that the Democrats need to kind of bring their, you know, bring themselves back from the political wilderness here.
I, you know, I frankly think their problems are much bigger and deeper, to be honest. I think that they Donald Trump exposes a kind of misalignment with their base, and he exposes a lack of authenticity.
I think, too, I think a lot of times when people are asking, are they going to show up or not? It's because they feel like Democrats. They don't know what they believed in, they don't know what they stood for, and they don't feel as if there is a clear sense of message coming from them.
If I could take a couple issues just from this week, you think about the reaction to Zelenskyy in Ukraine on Friday. That is an issue from public perception that has moved in Donald Trump's direction consistently over the years.
He has a much clearer mandate from public than Democrats do on that front. Or even if you take on trans women in sports. And we saw that yesterday with 45 Democrats opposing that, that's a 7080 issue in all polling.
Democrats don't say that. And so all I'm saying is, more than any speech right now or standing up or throwing an egg carton, they have a question of their own alignment with their base and the type of authentic messengers who can communicate that.
TODD: Democrats don't ask me for my advice. I'd be glad to offer some now.
You know, there are 13 Democrats there who sit in districts Donald Trump carried. If Democrats are going to take back the House, they're going to have to win those seats that Donald Trump carried. If I were the Democratic caucus tonight, I would be trying to find places to applaud Donald Trump, find places to show the American public that they're willing to work with him and not just fight him on everything.
It's not news that they're against Donald Trump. What would be news is where they support him.
HUNT: All right. Coming up next here, the Supreme Court case that's putting Samuel Alito on the same side as San Francisco? We'll explain next.
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[16:59:06]
HUNT: All right. Welcome back.
Conservatives on the Supreme Court today siding with liberal San Francisco. I'm sorry. What? Yes, we did read that headline a few times. Yes, it is correct.
In a 5-4 decision today, the justices said the EPA went too far when they told the city and county of San Francisco that they were pumping too much raw sewage into the Pacific Ocean. Justice Samuel Alito wrote the majority opinion, saying the federal government has plenty of tools to regulate water quality. He said in part, quote, if the EPA does its work, our holdings should have no adverse effect on water quality.
Alito was joined by other conservatives in that view, John Roberts, Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh, Clarence Thomas.
Justice Amy Coney Barrett sided with the court's three liberals in the dissent. She writes this, quote, taking a tool away from EPA may make it harder for the agency to issue permits that municipalities and businesses need in order for their discharges to be lawful. She's becoming more and more interesting as days go by.
According to a local environmental group, the San Francisco Bay Keeper, the city already dumps millions of gallons of, quote, combined sewer discharges every year, and big storms make that number higher. Boating season right around the corner.
All right. Thanks so much to my panel for joining us today. Really appreciate it. Hope you all come back.
Thanks to all of you at home for watching as well.
Don't go anywhere. "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts right now.
