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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
CNN Poll: Trump Has Worst Rating On Economy Of His Political Career; Stocks Stabilize After Massive Sell-Off Amid Trump Trade War; Newsom Praises Charlie Kirk & Steve Bannon For Their Work; RFK Jr. Claims It's "Difficult For Measles To Kill A Healthy Person". Aired 4-5p ET
Aired March 12, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:02]
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: And usually its been Republicans, at least in the last 10 or 15 years. Now it's Democrats.
And I think they understand, as Senator Angus King laid out, that its a lose-lose situation.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Yeah. The question will be how far are they willing to go?
SANCHEZ: Right.
KEILAR: Right? So if Republicans who control the Senate floor, they control the calendar, and they do have the majority of the votes, if not the filibuster proof majority, you know how far Democrats are going to go on this? It will be really interesting.
SANCHEZ: Thanks so much for joining us today.
THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now.
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: It's Trump versus the people?
Let's head into THE ARENA.
(MUSIC)
HUNT: At this hour, Americans are giving the president his worst ratings on the economy ever. We're breaking down CNN's new poll and what it reveals about the public's patience with Trump.
Plus, guess who Gavin Newsom is talking to now? He's interviewing none other than veteran MAGA flamethrower Steve Bannon. Part of the California governor's new push to be a different kind of Democrat?
And does RFK Jr. think it would be better if everybody got measles? The health secretary offering quite the take on the outbreak rapidly spreading across west Texas.
(MUSIC)
Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's wonderful to have you with us on this Wednesday.
Today, we are halfway through president Trump's first 100 days in office. And there are new signs that his honeymoon with the American people on what has been his strongest issue may be over?
Take a look at CNN's exclusive new poll. A majority of Americans, 56 percent, now say that they disapprove of Trump's handling of the economy. He's underwater on the issue that voters care about the most, the issue that got him elected. And this is the worst rating of Trump's political career on the economy, worse than at any point in his first term.
So is the whiplash of the past few weeks finally destroying this image Americans have of Donald Trump?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: With lots of companies and thousands of employees, I'm always looking for someone who's new and talented. I'm looking for someone who's a sharp negotiator. I'm looking for the apprentice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So what is President Trump doing to reconnect with Americans and their economic concerns?
He is hawking $100,000 cars, of course, quite literally, as markets were closing yesterday when the Dow was down more than 400 points, Trump was making a sales pitch for Tesla. People are watching thousands of dollars evaporate from their retirement accounts, as Trump was holding this piece of paper in his hand, showing just how much Teslas cost some into the six figures.
Now, it's not clear which one of these Trump actually bought, but this entire display led to this question from a Fox News reporter, no less.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: What is your message, President Trump? Buying a new car while there are some folks who will see this clip at home and they are struggling with their retirement accounts down at the moment, uncertainty about work ahead?
TRUMP: Well, I think they're going to do great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: I think they're going to do great.
So is the Trump honeymoon over?
We should be clear. There are some positives for the president in the new poll we have here, including strong approval for his immigration crackdown. And this just in, the markets stabilizing somewhat -- the S&P and the Nasdaq closing in positive territory moments ago, their first attempt to rally after that massive selloff that was triggered by Trump's trade war and his comments about a possible recession.
Still, Trump may be putting his own political capital on the line for someone that Americans like a lot less than they seem to like the president. In our new poll, more than half of Americans have an unfavorable view of Elon Musk. He is underwater, and nearly two thirds say that Musk does not have the right experience for his role, slashing and overhauling the federal government.
And yet, this is the image that President Trump is leaving all of us with.
All right. Joining us now is our panel.
Xochitl Hinojosa, former DNC senior adviser, communications director; Jonah Goldberg, co-founder, editor in chief of "The Dispatch"; CNN anchor and chief political correspondent Dana Bash; and Scott Jennings, CNN senior political commentator.
Welcome to all of you. Thank you so much --
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Thank you.
HUNT: -- for being here.
Jonah Goldberg, I want to start with you on this kind of Tesla display that we saw yesterday and how it fits into this big picture, because Trump does seem to be losing ground on something that Americans have given him all the credit for in the past.
JONAH GOLDBERG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah. So the first thing I want to know is whether or not Trump got the undercoating on that. You know, they put that into the factory. You just can't get that removed.
[16:05:00]
Look, I think -- I think Trump is still very much likes having Elon Musk around, not just because he wrote a $100 million or made $100 million pledge to his various PACs and whatnot.
HUNT: Sure.
GOLDBERG: You know, Musk is -- gets to play bad cop for him.
BASH: Exactly.
GOLDBERG: And to have the richest man in the world playing bad cop for him, you could see why that would appeal to Donald Trump. I don't think that this relationship lasts forever. The act is going to get old. There's been reporting that the DOGE people are desperate to find actual wins, because a lot of them have been exaggerated. And eventually, this is going to -- the conversation is going to move from the slashing phase to some other phase.
And the show will get over. And I think they'll figure out a way to peacefully move them off to the side. HUNT: But, Dana, if that's the case, I mean, why do you think Trump
feels the need to do this sort of public display of -- I mean, he could just let Elon play bad cop. He doesn't necessarily need to be the booster.
BASH: Part of it is quid pro quo. And that is some of it is basic politics and by quid pro quo, I mean, he has already given a lot of money to the Trump campaign during the 2024 election and to the PACs. And he did pledge to give more.
And the stock -- I mean, we all know that the stock market has done not well over the past couple of days. Tesla is an exaggerated example of that. And that's not just because of the trade war. That's because of Elon Musk's war with the federal government.
And so, some of it is personal. It is interesting, loyalty is often a one way street with Donald Trump in this case, in this time, in this space --
HUNT: A hundred million dollars.
BASH: -- in this time and space with this person, he's -- he's going on the other side of the street.
You like that I'm still using the driving --
HUNT: I appreciate it very much.
BASH: Yeah, metaphors.
HUNT: I see what you did there.
BASH: Yeah, but -- but -- but the point is, is that, like, even after yesterday, Tesla stock did go up a little bit. So it helped Elon Musk a little bit as kind of ridiculous as that whole scene was on the lawn of the White House.
HUNT: Scott Jennings, I actually want to sort of broaden this conversation out a little bit and talk about other CEOs of other companies, right? Elon obviously has the companies he runs, but we heard from the Goldman CEO, from another, the founder of Altimeter Capital, and they're raising questions about the bigger picture here.
Let's watch what they had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID SOLOMON, CEO, GOLDMAN SACHS: I think CEOs are looking for more policy certainly broadly. The more we can have certainty on the policy agenda as we move forward, the better that's going to support capital investment and growth.
BRAD GERSTNER, CEO, ALTIMER CAPITAL: We have high economic uncertainty, high political uncertainty and high technological uncertainty. So for us, that was just a period to say, okay, we'll go to the sidelines, we'll wait this out. (END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Scott, I mean, it seems like he's taken an awful lot of risks with his own, his own capital on the economy as well as with everyone else's money.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Sure. Well, a couple of things. Number one, a lot of the certainty that maybe they want will come if and when the Congress can pass the reconciliation bill. If you get -- the tax cuts are made permanent, they make interesting changes to our --
HUNT: You have mentioned this on our -- on the set a couple of times.
JENNINGS: It's vital. We're Republicans. We would like to make tax cuts permanent. And I assume the business community would like us to do that, too. So that's a -- that's a vital item. And so would all the other changes that Congress can make.
On the Trump side, it has been bumpy in the markets, but there are some signs inflation is down. Oil is down. You know, all the -- all important price of eggs. Eggs are now a little bit cheaper than they were when he took office. You've also had some announcements of investments from companies out there that have come in.
So there are a few green shoots of optimism for Trump on what he says his plan is going to do, which is ultimately bring down prices, stimulate job growth in the United States and in the jobs report, manufacturing jobs and auto jobs were up a bit. So, you know, I don't --
HUNT: He's deep down on the economy. I mean, what hope do Republicans have to keep the House in the midterm elections? Right? Like, doesn't he need to fix that for them if he wants to stay in power?
JENNINGS: It's March of the of the -- of the year before the election. I mean, I think what any Republican would tell you is if we make the tax cuts permanent, if we unleash American energy, if we get the regulatory state out of the way, this is our plan for always having a better economy. And we have plenty of time between now and next November to do that. That's when we'll get the report card.
XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So you have plenty of time and you claim you have plenty of time. The problem is that the Republican messaging right now continues to be workers, Americans, you're going to feel a little bit of pain. And Americans have been feeling pain. That's why Democrats lost the election. That's why Democrats lost everything.
He, Trump, promised that he would end up lowering costs, that he would have a better economy, that he would get us out of the war in Ukraine. He promised all of these things, and he hasn't done it.
And instead, which I think was a terrible PR move, and, Scott, I'm assuming you agree because as a Republican strategist, you wouldn't have advised him to go in front of the White House and drive a Tesla. [16:10:04]
JENNINGS: Wait, why?
HINOJOSA: Because --
JENNINGS: Of course I would have. You know why? Because if I were advising a Republican president, I would say, let's support American companies that have thousands of American workers and thousands more workers who make indirect products for it. Yeah, I think it would be a good idea if American companies did under my watch.
HINOJOSA: And, oh, okay. So you're going to go ahead and support a billionaire, but not support the American worker and not necessarily --
JENNINGS: Who do you think makes Teslas, Xochitl? American workers, it's good --
HINOJOSA: But it's very much as Dana mentioned. It's a quid pro quo.
JENNINGS: Did Elon build them on his basement? They got factories all over the place.
GOLDBERG: Including China. But --
JENNINGS: Do we not -- do they not have thousands of Americans?
GOLDBERG: Of course, they do.
HINOJOSA: The visual -- the of him driving a six figure --
JENNINGS: Did Joe Biden drive a Jeep Rubicon around the South Lawn?
HINOJOSA: A six-figure car --
JENNINGS: Where did they make those?
HINOJOSA: -- is owned by a billionaire in the White House.
HUNT: Well, nobody moves -- Stellantis is giving.
JENNINGS: The UAW had a stake in it, and the UAW gave money to Joe Biden, and they supported Joe Biden. Are you saying one handed?
HUNT: Well, you're talking about the UAW. You're kind -- talking about the workers.
HINOJOSA: A billionaire who is in the federal government making cuts and -- and making business deals that end up benefiting himself.
HUNT: A lot of those UAW (INAUDIBLE) for Donald Trump.
JENNINGS: I never see Democrats so excited to tear down an American company or companies the way they are right now. It's crazy. BASH: Can I also just mention one? You talked about all of the
promises that Donald Trump made. One of them was to put these tariffs in place.
HINOJOSA: Absolutely.
BASH: And it's not just a promise he made in this election. He made it in the first time he ran. He's been talking about it since he was out of the womb. I mean, this is something that he cares so much about.
And I just -- I'm not entirely we don't know how this movie is going to end, but we do know that obviously they have a lot on their agenda. And you talked about a lot of what they want to do in Congress. But whether that is even going to matter when there is an actual trade war, a global trade war that he is inciting because he fundamentally believes, as you said, that the short term pain will equal long term gain.
GOLDBERG: Yes. I think I think it's early for all the reasons Scott says and all those kinds of things.
I think the thing -- I don't think the Tesla event was done as a homage to the American worker. It was a it was a favor to Elon Musk, who's -- I take Trump at his word that he thinks Elon is being treated unfairly. And the violence against dealerships is outrageous, and all those kinds of things.
But I think what this whole spectacle really does is it -- it takes the bloom off of the honeymoon in the sense that when Trump hit the ground running with all those executive orders, it really seemed like he had a plan for what they were going to do, right? This time was different.
He knew -- all the punditry was about how he knows what he wants to do, and he's going to have the people in place who won't undermine him and all that kind of stuff. And in the last month, we've just seen this on again, off again. I'm going to do tariffs. I'm not going to do tariffs. He's trying to say, well, it's just about flexibility.
And I think what's rattling the markets more than anything else is that he's kind of making it up as he goes along. And that's the thing that fuels a lot of uncertainty and makes people think, gosh, this isn't the stuff. He said he knew how to do this stuff on day one, and it turns out he's just feeling his way.
HUNT: Well, and the headline in "The New York Times" this morning was investors thought they had Trump figured out, turns out they don't. And that's part of why were seeing so much volatility in peoples 401(k)s.
All right. Panel is going to stand by.
Right now, we want to know what are you hearing? To all my sources and friends, you know who you are. Check your inbox. Here's our question for you today. We're going to talk a lot about this later on in the show.
Why is California Governor Gavin Newsom palling around on his podcast with MAGA influencers? Send us your thoughts, tips, exclusives. It's the wrong question. We're all wrong around this table. We say this every day. Let us know.
Viewers, we'll let you in on the conversation coming up next.
Also up next here, we've got breaking news off Capitol Hill. Senate Democrats announcing that they plan to block the government funding bill that was passed by House Republicans.
Plus, RFK Jr. unveiling his plan to combat a deadly and growing measles outbreak. Spoiler, he seems to be relying heavily on fringe theories.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:18:26]
HUNT: All right. Welcome back.
We've got some breaking news on Capitol Hill. The Senate minority leader, Chuck Schumer, just announced that Senate Democrats are preparing to block the government funding bill that was passed by House Republicans last night.
Our CNN chief congressional correspondent, Manu Raju, on the Hill, as per usual.
Manu, what did we learn from Schumer here? I mean, this big question was, were Democrats going to stand and fight? Were they going to view it as important to keep the lights on? The deadline is Friday.
I think my question is, I mean, how much of this is real that we could actually face a shutdown here? And how much of it is them needing to show that they are fighting?
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they definitely need to show that they are fighting to a lot of Democrats who want to see this as really there, really it is their first piece of leverage to push back against everything that Donald Trump has done so far, because their votes are needed in the Republican led Senate in order to overcome a filibuster attempt. They need 60 votes to overcome a filibuster.
The Senate is controlled 53-47 by the GOP. We expect one Republican senator to vote against it, which means there needs to be at least eight Democrats to vote yes. And what Chuck Schumer just said on the Senate floor just moments ago was that there would not be 60 votes, there would not be at least eight Democrats to break a filibuster.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Funding the government should be a bipartisan effort. But Republicans chose a partisan path, drafting their continuing resolution without any input, any input from congressional Democrats.
Because of that, Republicans do not have the votes in the Senate to invoke cloture on the House C.R.
[16:20:03]
Our caucus is unified on a clean April 11th C.R. that will keep the government open and give Congress time to negotiate bipartisan legislation that can pass. We should vote on that. I hope -- I hope our Republican colleagues will join us to avoid a shutdown on Friday.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: Now, a C.R. means continuing resolution, which is essentially an extension of government funding, which Schumer is calling for. There is a one month extension of government funding, but the Republicans are just not going to go for that. So that really is going to leave Democrats with a choice here in the Republican-led Senate. They can vote for the House plan, which they are opposing, because it does have cuts to domestic programs. It does nothing to constrain Donald Trump or Elon Musk or the efforts to purge the federal government so they can vote to accept that House plan, which extends government funding until the end of September, or they could line up and do what Chuck Schumer said right there, block this plan, and that could lead to a shutdown.
And that has actually caused, Kasie, a lot of consternation, a lot of concern among Senate Democrats. They don't know how long the shutdown could go on for. They don't know what Trump would do if their government is shut down. Perhaps he could go even further in his effort to purge the federal workforce and shut down government agencies, which is why a lot of Democrats are still uncertain.
Despite Schumer's declaration whether they would actually stand firm and block this plan, or whether, come Friday, when we expect that key procedural vote to happen, where they'll vote to advance it and eventually let this become law. But if they do that, there will be a lot of backlash from a lot of Democrats who want to see their party fight in their first piece of leverage against Donald Trump.
HUNT: Yeah, we've obviously seen Republicans be willing to play with the fire of government shutdowns in years past. But with the stakes so high and Democrats tending to believe that the government functioning is something that's, on the whole good for the country, it tends to be a contrast sometimes with how Republicans view bigger government high stakes, incredibly high.
Manu Raju, thanks very much for bringing us that breaking news.
Dana Bash, let's look at how Republican leaders have been talking about this apparently coming showdown here. This is Speaker Johnson and the majority leader in the Senate, John Thune.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Chuck Schumer has a big decision to make. Is he going to cast a vote to keep the government open, or is he going to be blamed for shutting it down?
SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: Here we are on the brink of a government shutdown which will be entirely of the Democrats making if it happens. I think the American people are going to be interested to see whether the Democrats are going to filibuster, and by filibustering, shut down the federal government. It is on them if this happens.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So, Dana, this has always been a blame game when we've faced these shutdown questions. So clearly, and Republicans often think they take the blame. I mean, that was the message J.D. Vance had for his Republicans in the House when he went up there.
But in some ways, this one is a little bit different because of the way Elon Musk and DOGE have been kind of rampaging through -- rampaging through the government. What's your view on what Democrats are doing here and how this ends?
BASH: Well, first of all, let's just take one step back, a half a step back, to say that what Republicans are doing is jamming the Democrats. They're jamming the Democrats by passing what they did, saying, take it or leave it. I mean, the House is literally gone through, what, ten days after this shutdown?
HUNT: Johnson said.
BASH: Yeah, yeah.
HUNT: All you.
BASH: All yours. Yeah.
And so, so -- it is a tough decision for Democrats. And I agree with you that in today's day and age, where Democrats are being urged to -- to use a -- well, maybe to use other than a spoon in a -- in a duel, there is a lot of pressure on Democrats to do so. But the bigger picture for Democrats and talking to them is what you were alluding to, which is the story line out of Washington right now, is Elon Musk dismantling the federal government of Donald Trump and the chaos in the federal government.
If Democrats don't vote yes, or at least are in any way seen as allowing the government to shut down with their no votes, they risk taking that narrative, which is helping them away from the Republicans.
HUNT: Xochitl?
HINOJOSA: That's right. I think that you put it -- it was great -- where Republicans essentially negotiated this deal without Democrats for a reason, because they want to head towards a government shutdown, and they want to blame the Democrats.
The reality is, is that the administration is already essentially shutting down the government. They're cutting jobs everywhere. They just cut jobs at the Department of Education.
If you have a government shutdown and if you're Donald Trump, you're looking at it like, oh, great, I get to keep all of my top political appointees at every government agency. And everyone else is wiped for at least until we -- as long as we have a government shutdown.
To Donald Trump and Elon Musk, that seems like a massive victory for them.
[16:25:03]
And this is exactly what Republicans are doing. I think it was smart for Chuck Schumer to come back and say, let's pass a short term cr. Let's try to make sure that this is a bipartisan conversation. Republicans, you left Democrats out. If the government shuts down, it is your fault. You did not negotiate with us. We're willing to negotiate with you. Now, let's come to the table.
HUNT: But do you think they should ultimately stand in the way of this? Because, I mean, I don't think Republicans are going to give them that option. So it may be up to them. Shut it down or not. What's the right move?
HINOJOSA: Well, I think that if Democrats decide -- decide to move forward and -- and to vote, not vote with Republicans, they need to explain to the American people exactly what position they're put in. And it was Republicans that control everything that shut down the government. This isn't on Democrats.
HUNT: Let's watch what John Fetterman, who's the Democratic senator from Pennsylvania, who has angered his party on a number of various fronts, but had to say this just this week about what to do about this particular question. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): We don't agree with what's been sent to us. But, you know, if we withhold our votes, that is going to shut the government down. And I think that's one of our core responsibilities in the Senate or in the government here to -- to not ever let allow the government to shut down.
And I would see that it become for Democrats, were going to burn the village down just to save it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: He needs to relax more.
HUNT: He's just sit back a little farther.
BASH: Relax.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Xochitl, does that not -- does that not thrill you to see your favorite senator explaining the political reality to you today?
HINOJOSA: I will say --
JENNINGS: The issue is every Republican in Washington, save one, my congressman, Thomas Massie, has or will vote to keep the government open. And all these Democrats in the House save one and most of the Democrats in the Senate, are going to vote to shut down the government after spending weeks and weeks and weeks arguing that even the most minuscule job cuts in the federal government was a disaster and a chaos for the American people, and now, they're apparently going to shut it down. There's no cuts to Medicare, no cuts to Medicaid, no cuts to veterans benefits, no cuts to Social Security.
BASH: There are some cuts to Democratic --
JENNINGS: It's basically Biden spending levels and Democrats just can't find it in their heart to keep the sacred federal government open.
HINOJOSA: Also, there are not necessarily minuscule cuts to jobs. I'm sorry. They are going to cut major cuts.
JENNINGS: You're going to cut them all? You're going to cut them all.
HINOJOSA: No, it's Republicans that are because they're the ones that are in charge of everything.
JENNINGS: We're voting to keep it open, Xochitl. You're the ones voting no.
HINOJOSA: It's a game that Republicans are playing.
JENNINGS: Big cuts for an answer.
GOLDBERG: So, I think that its just a purely political question, right? Because, you know, I'm Henry Kissinger on the Iran-Iraq war when it comes to like the statesmanship involved on both sides of these things. But when it comes to the actual the key political question is who will get blamed for causing more chaos? Right now, one of the only messages that the Democrats have is that you guys -- you know, Joe Biden got elected on normalcy and then didn't provide it. He swung for the moon and messed up.
Donald Trump promised return to common sense. And instead we're talking about Mara Gaza or whatever that is, and, you know, making Canada a state and shutting down the government and chainsaws and whatnot.
If the Democrats are seen as sowing even more uncertainty and chaos, it's devastating for them. And -- and so, that's the only messaging they should care about.
HUNT: All right. Coming up next here, Steve Bannon is the latest MAGA influencer to RSVP yes to Gavin Newsom's new podcast. Bannon has quite the compliment for the California governor, who, of course, was the one who invited him. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:32:58]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE BANNON, HOST, "WARROOM" PODCAST: If we're ever to get a control of the oligarchs, you as governor, and as, quite frankly, the leader of that wing of the party have got to work with us to say, hey, this can't go on any longer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: That was Donald Trump's former chief strategist, Steve Bannon, not only calling Gavin Newsom the leader of the Democratic Party, but saying they need to unite forces.
This is for the second week the governor has hosted conservative firebrands on his new podcast to have what he calls discussions with people he deeply disagrees with.
But so far, he has been heaping on a considerable amount of praise.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D), CALIFORNIA: You are making a dent.
CHARLIE KIRK, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: Thank you. I'm kidding. I'm --
NEWSOM: No. But I know, and I but I appreciate that. I mean, it's the reason you're here because I think people need to understand your success, your influence, what you've been up to.
It's been a hell of -- a hell of a beginning of an administration. And I appreciate your -- your advocacy. I also appreciate that you called balls and strikes as it relates to what you're seeing with -- with the administration.
BANNON: I'm just honored you had me on here. And, you know, we're able to conduct this and some level of -- of decency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: You heard it right there. Gavin Newsom, likely presidential contender in 2028, says to Steve Bannon, you call balls and strikes.
Xochitl Hinojosa, what is going on here?
HINOJOSA: What is going on? Steve Bannon does not call balls and strikes. I just want to correct the record there.
Listen, I think that was -- he's essentially running for president. He's running for president. And as someone who ran he --
HUNT: He has to run with the Democratic base. I'm just -- HINOJOSA: He -- he -- well, what I have seen is last time I helped
run the Democratic process for the primary, and it is two very long years. I mean, I think what he's doing right now is laying the groundwork.
I think instead of talking to these podcasts or, you know, bringing people on, conservatives on, I think that he should maybe raise money and try to help Democrats win some Senate races or some House races, or try to find ways to go and tell the American workers story about how they're being impacted by Donald Trump's policies.
What I do agree with is, you know, if he would like to go on Fox and talk to some conservative voices here and there.
[16:35:03]
I do think there -- right now, we're in a situation where Democrats are going on MSNBC. You have Republicans and Trump administrations, which Mr. Trump administration officials only going on Fox.
So I do agree that we need to talk to everyone and broaden our base. I'm not sure that saying that Steve Bannon calls balls and strikes is the right way.
BASH: I think at the risk of Elon Musk tweeting about me, because apparently he likes when I say the word balls on TV, I will say that balls and strikes when you're talking about Steve Bannon, when he calls balls and strikes, he calls strikes balls and balls strikes.
I mean, that's what he does. He says the opposite of what is happening, particularly when you're talking about, I don't know, the 2020 election. So let's just be clear on that.
Having said that, we are so siloed in how we consume information that the fact that Gavin Newsom is so aggressively going -- he's not just going over the line, he's going like to the other side of the spectrum in order to make a point. That's what he's doing.
GOLDBERG: I got -- so there's another California governor who built a political campaign, a presidential campaign, in part by doing something, something like this. Ronald Reagan went and did all these radio commentaries to sort of build an audience or whatever.
But Ronald Reagan was actually standing for something that he actually believed, cultivating his philosophy, you know, all that kind of stuff. I do not -- I have no problem with, with Gavin Newsom, let's admit it, has very important hair. Doing these things with these people, that's fine.
But, like, he's not -- at least. Look, I haven't watched all of them, so maybe I'm being unfair. Ive been too busy chewing glass and things I would prefer to do more than watch an hour long thing with this guy. But the idea that, like, you're going, you're developing a coalition or a constituency by kissing these guys rather than debating them like you could do it civilly. But this stuff about telling me -- calls balls and strikes, and
talking about how important and vital Charlie Kirk is, that's not going to win him any MAGA votes, and it's not going to convince any base Democrats, correct me if I'm wrong that he's a fighter, right?
I mean, being willing -- like when he debated DeSantis, that was smart, right? He did it civil. They had a real disagreement. I think DeSantis won, but that's a different matter.
The simple fact is he was actually engaging in fighting in a high minded way. This is like he's trying to sell these guys a condo. And I just don't -- I don't get what he gains out of it.
HUNT: So -- well, perhaps attention, right? I mean, it may be just baseline about that, but, Scott Jennings, the one place he seemed to really push back on Steve Bannon to Dana's point, he didn't around the 2020 election. And Joe Biden was around what he's had to say about Elizabeth Warren, where he corrected Steve Bannon.
Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BANNON: In the spring of 2017, it was really Bernie Sanders and -- and the -- Pocahontas, that was going to be -- the --
NEWSOM: Senator Warren.
BANNON: Elizabeth Warren is going to be Pocahontas we call, going to be the challengers coming from the populist left. And I thought it was very important to nip that in the bud at the time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: I mean, Scott, does it surprise you that the governor of California is having Steve Bannon on and that's the conversation?
JENNINGS: You know, Newsom strikes me as a guy who's like, I'm going to ride a unicycle and see if that works. No, it's not. Now I'm going to spin some plates on a stick and see if that works. Nope. Now I'm going to bounce a ball on my head while I do that.
It's -- it -- there's no -- there's nothing inside. It's all for the purpose of creating a spectacle to control attention in the conversation. And I have to say, right now, no one's running the Democratic Party other than Donald Trump. And the most visible Democrat heretofore has been Jasmine Crockett. And so there is a vacuum of a need, I guess, for some Democrat to take control of the Democratic conversation. I question whether -- you know better than me, Xochitl -- whether Democrats enjoy these conversations or not.
But as it relates to what Democrats are we actually talking about right now, you know, he -- he seems to be rising in the control of the conversation.
GOLDBERG: Pointing really quickly that Steve Bannon wants New Deal style big government liberalism. He just doesn't want to call it liberalism. But so their -- on ideological grounds, he and Newsom actually have a lot in common.
BASH: It's a horseshoe.
GOLDBERG: It's a very horseshoe theory thing.
BASH: By the way, you have very good hair, too.
(LAGUHTER)
GOLDBERG: It's the rest of you that's a problem.
(CROSSTALK)
HUNT: I last saw you.
Xochitl, one of the other things that someone -- "The Sacramento Bee" reported that there was a lawmaker in California or, excuse me, someone in California who suggested that Gavin Newsom host Tucker Carlson on his podcast. And the quote in "The Sacramento Bee" is that Newsom said, quote, I agree. I'm fascinated by Tucker.
Good idea or bad?
HINOJOSA: I don't think that you should have anyone on your show that is a January 6th conspiracy theorist. I don't think you should have anyone on your show who does goes off, and you shouldn't give them any sort of platform to go off and tell lies about our country. So I think that Gavin Newsom needs to be very careful with his bully pulpit.
I think that he can do a lot of good with it.
[16:40:01]
I think that he can help a lot of people, but I don't think that he should be giving a bully pulpit to people who constantly lie.
JENNINGS: What are the odds he's the Democrat nominee if you had to put a percentage on it right now.
HINOJOSA: I would say very low.
HUNT: In fact, let's -- what we have up next speaks to that a little bit, Scott, because we did ask my sources and friends today earlier about this very question. Why is Governor Newsom doing this? Doing this podcast with MAGA influencers?
Here's what a couple of you had to say. One Republican strategist from California writes in this quote, I don't know a single person in California or beyond who believes that this makes him more likely to be the Democratic nominee in 2028. He wants a career in media. I think he may want to be president, but that's the only place I would quibble with that particular one.
A former Democratic house candidate writes in this quote, Gavin's decided that capitulating on his purported values will broaden his coalition. He looks like even more of an empty suit than before.
And I do think -- I mean, Scott Jennings, it strikes me that, first of all, he's pushing back on or sort of implicitly criticizing the Kamala Harris campaign for not doing stuff like this, right. But that his issue and has been sometimes authenticity, right, and sometimes people have perceived certainly in the, in the MAGA world going on these podcasts has been a way to show authenticity. Is that working for him here?
JENNINGS: Well, going on podcast and answering questions and having a conversation where you're responding, that is an authentic way to communicate. He's trying to be the interviewer. I mean, he's trying to be the one that controls the conversation.
I don't really see him putting himself on the hot seat as much as he wants to pal around with us. Look, if Democrats want to nominate Gavin Newsom, President Vance will be more than happy to have had that campaign, and we'll have another.
HINOJOSA: I'm not sure Vance is going.
JENNINGS: -- to last glorious eight years. I mean, this would be a really silly road for Dems, but you guys go down silly road sometimes. So, we'll see.
HINOJOSA: So I think what will happen is that we will have 15 to 20 people jump in this race. Democrats jumping in this race. We will have a ton of debates. There will be plenty of time to answer tough questions.
And you know what? The Democrats will vet a candidate that I think will ultimately win. I think our problem last time around is we didn't have a primary. We -- it was -- we didn't -- we weren't able to vet a candidate, and we ended up coming up short. And I think Democrats do.
JENNINGS: But you did have a primary.
HINOJOSA: The Democrats do best. We -- well, Democrats --
JENNINGS: Joe Biden.
HUNT: Some honesty here.
HINOJOSA: Democrats do best whenever you have a primary, you're able to debate the issues. I mean, that's why when Joe Biden was elected, we had a very long, contentious primary. And the person with the most votes rose to the top right, and we won. And that is when the Democratic Party succeeds.
GOLDBERG: But your point about primaries is that primaries are about where you have arguments, right? That's the -- that's the value of primaries. These podcasts could be great if Newsom was willing to have arguments with these people and really stand up for some values that, you know, someone told him he should have.
HUNT: To your earlier point. All right. Coming up next here, the new comments from the nation's top
health official about how to combat or not a deadly measles outbreak.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:47:34]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT F. KENNEDY, JR., HHS SECRETARY: It used to be when you and I were kids, everybody got measles, and measles gave you a lifetime protection against measles infection. The vaccine doesn't do that. The vaccine is effective for some people, for life, but many people, it wanes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Everybody used to get measles, he says. Secretary of Health and Human Services Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. in an interview with Fox News at a Steak 'N Shake, reminiscing somewhat fondly over when, quote, everybody got measles, amid the deadly measles outbreak across the Southwest.
The latest numbers there, 223 cases in Texas, 33 cases in New Mexico and an additional two cases there.
Now, Kennedy does say that vaccines stop the spread of measles, but he does say he is opposed to vaccine mandates. That's in line with what he told me when I pressed him about where he stands on vaccines in 2023.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So do you think schoolchildren should not be required to be vaccinated in public schools?
KENNEDY: No, I would be against mandates at all.
HUNT: For any vaccines.
KENNEDY: For any vaccine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Elliot Williams is now joining our panel.
Scott Jennings, is this defensible?
JENNINGS: Well, I think that first of all, I'm not an expert on this. And as our viewers know, I'm not accustomed to talking out of my rear end. So I would just say, whatever you're going to do, talk to your pediatrician about it. That's number one.
Number two look, he has said vaccines were --
HUNT: From our political -- from our political leaders, again, because I think you're -- I mean, I appreciate you saying I'm not a doctor. I'm not an expert.
JENNINGS: And when I --
HUNT: He's not a doctor, either.
JENNINGS: I have. And, you know, everything we do, we talk to the doctor about it. We get their best advice. I mean, that's - that's kind of the -- the medical interactions we've had on it. Look --
HUNT: Is there not a risk for public health officials when there are literally kids dying right now of measles?
JENNINGS: Well, I mean, the -- yeah. I mean, yes, if you don't have a vaccine, I guess there is a risk of getting the measles. I mean, I think the death rates are low on it, but I -- I'm -- this makes me nervous because, you know, you don't want to give people an idea that getting a vaccine is somehow adverse when that's not been the case and when it might have, you know, an obvious benefit.
So, yeah, this -- this whole conversation makes me somewhat nervous about it. And I, you know, I just again, my advice would be parents, talk to your doctors. Get -- get the best personal medical advice you can get.
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Can I go a little further than Scott on this?
The secretary of health and human services is grossly out of step with both experts and public opinion on this issue. Number one, he's incorrect with -- with the things he's citing. Encephalitis being -- being one of the things he talked about in his comments. You have a 1 in 1,000,000 chance of getting encephalitis with the measles vaccine. You got a 1 in 1000 chance of dying of measles, like so, if you actually get it.
And given how communicable measles is, far more than whether its chickenpox or COVID or any of these other things that we see every day, people can die from comments like this. And so not only is he just out of step, whether it's politically or, or logically, he's also misstating information that is detrimental to people's public health.
HUNT: Yeah, let's watch what Elliot here is, is talking about, because we can play that section of the interview with RFK where he talks about and again, underscoring Elliot's comments. The FDA has shown this vaccine that RFK Jr. is going to talk about here in this clip as being safe and effective. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENNEDY: But if people don't want it, they shouldn't be. The government shouldn't force them to do it. There are adverse events from the vaccine. It does cause deaths every year. It causes -- it causes all the illnesses that measles itself cause, encephalitis and blindness, et cetera. And so people ought to be able to make that choice for themselves. And what we need to do is give them the best information and encourage them to vaccinate. The vaccine does stop the spread of the disease.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So can I also say, Jonah, one of the things that RFK Jr. has not done is say that he would encourage people to vaccinate. I mean, he -- he is saying it in that clip, but in the interview that I did with him, I pushed him repeatedly on this and he tried to flat out lie to me and say, I never said vaccines are not safe and effective. I played the clip for him.
And then the other thing that he had said, just within the -- again, this is all within the last two years, was that he literally would stop people on a trail and say, don't vaccinate your babies, right? It's the opposite of what he's saying there.
GOLDBERG: Yeah. I think part of the problem with talking about RFK Jr. is people want -- people want to defend him will say, you know, he's right about a lot of stuff, but he has some crackpot ideas. The problem is he's a crackpot who's right about a couple things.
But for the most part, he's a crackpot. You know, look, I'm a conservative. I can wax poetic about all of the things I miss from the good old days. The days when everyone got measles is not one of them, right?
I mean, I looked it up on the CDC. Its like, you know, 500 people a year would die from the measles before the measles vaccine. You know, in a good year. That's the time he's nostalgic for -- the death rate from measles, statistically vanished and literally went to zero after we got the vaccine.
And he cannot bring himself to say to fully endorse any vaccine because -- he's locked into this whole crackpot industrial system that he's helped build up that is anti-vax.
WILLIAMS: And just for the benefit of our viewers, to fact check another point that he made there, talking about blindness, the CDC has said that blindness is not a side effect of the measles vaccine. He's just stating untruth after untruth. And people buy that crap and it's dangerous.
HINOJOSA: It's extremely dangerous. And I think that this whole anti- vax conspiracy theory that he has said for quite some time is mainly because in the last Trump administration, they tried to politicize as much as possible the COVID pandemic, right? And every parent remembers a COVID pandemic, every parent remembers when this country was shut down, every parent remembers when you had to home school your kids. We lost family members because of it.
If there is a measles outbreak across the country, because this administration has not encouraged people to get vaccinated and they haven't taken the actual steps to protect the American public, and they haven't had a campaign to educate people, then I really do think that this impacts Donald Trump. It will be interesting to say to hear what the White House has said about this, because if you're in the White House sitting there like, what did this guy, what is he doing, right? This is something that every parent, I think should be terrified about.
HUNT: All right. Coming up next here, for something totally different, the shell shocking discovery at New Jersey's Newark Airport. You'll see what we did there, up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:59:11]
HUNT: All right. Welcome back. A traveler triggered Newark Airport security. You'll never guess why there was a live turtle in his pants. I'm sorry. What?
This red eared slider turtle was found on Friday after a body scanner alarm went off when TSA officials asked the man if there was something hidden in his pants, he reached down and pulled out the live turtle. It was near his groin and wrapped in a small blue towel.
The turtle was confiscated. The turtle was unharmed. It is not clear if the turtle was the man's pet or why he had the turtle in his pants, but the turtle most definitely slowed down the security line. Wah, wah.
All right, Jake Tapper, how's that for --
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, THE LEAD: Is that a turtle in your pants or are you --
HUNT: Oh, my God, don't. Absolutely not. I was going to wish you a happy birthday. Now, I can't say anything nice to you at all, but happy birthday anyway.
