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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
S&P Enters Correction Territory, Dow Slides As Trump Ramps Up Trade War; Trump Hosts NATO Chief Amid President's Criticism Of The Alliance; Sources: Senate Dems Say They Expect Shutdown To Be Averted; Trump Administration Asks Justices To Weigh In On Birthright Citizenship. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired March 13, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: -- from its mother next and see how that turns out.
[16:00:06]
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We're not supposed to get emotional about stories. We're supposed to remain dispassionate as journalists, but hearing that guys laugh just made me so angry.
KEILAR: Yeah.
SANCHEZ: Why would you do that? I never touched any babies. I stay away from all babies, but especially wild animals. That's a terrible idea.
KEILAR: Human babies into it. But yeah, you never touch an animal baby. Everyone knows that.
SANCHEZ: Yeah.
KEILAR: THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts now.
SANCHEZ: Thanks so much for joining us.
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: It's Trump versus the Kremlin.
Let's head into THE ARENA.
(MUSIC)
HUNT: As we come on the air, the president suffering a possible setback from Russia. His hope for a ceasefire in Ukraine in the coming days, looking unlikely with new comments from Vladimir Putin.
Here at home, laying out a new timeline for economic pain. Trump's new expansive tariffs sending the markets even deeper into the red today.
Plus, breaking news on Capitol Hill. CNN learning that enough Senate Democrats appear willing to join Republicans to avert a government shutdown.
And the major development brewing at the Supreme Court. The White House now asking the justices to weigh in on the president's effort to end birthright citizenship.
(MUSIC)
HUNT: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It is wonderful to have you with us on this Thursday.
As we come on the air, breaking news on Wall Street, where the broadest measure of the market, the S&P, just sank into what's known as correction territory. The Nasdaq had already been there. But these are new red flags about the scope of the stock selloff triggered by President Trump's trade war and fears of a recession. We're going to have more on the economic fallout in just a moment.
But right now, we just got a new glimpse at how the president is risking friends to influence people, or at least one person by the name of Vladimir Putin. Trump putting a positive spin on the mixed messages that have been sent by the Russian leader about whether Russia will accept a proposed 30-day ceasefire in Ukraine.
Putin saying today he has, quote, reservations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We agree with the proposal to cease hostilities, but we have to bear in mind that this ceasefire must be aimed at a long lasting peace.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He put out a very promising statement, but it wasn't complete. I'd love to meet with him or talk to him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: That was President Trump earlier today during a meeting in the Oval Office with the secretary general of NATO.
The secretary general seemed intent on making friends and influencing Trump, praising Trump's efforts to get European nations to pay more for their own defense.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK RUTTE, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: What happened the last couple of weeks is really staggering. The Europeans committing to a package of $800 billion defense spending. The Germans now potentially up to half a trillion extra in defense spending. And then, of course, you had Keir Starmer here, the British prime minister and others all committing to much higher defense spending.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All of this playing out as the president is ramping up the trade war that he initiated against some of America's closest allies, risking friends and influencing prices. Trump vowing to stand firm on the on again, off again tariffs that he has slapped on Canada.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We've been ripped off for years and we're not going to be ripped off anymore. No, I'm not going to bend at all or aluminum or steel or cars. We're not going to bend. Now there will be a little disruption, but it won't be very long.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Now, this hour, Trump's commerce secretary is set to meet with Canadian officials. They'll be here in Washington to try and discuss these spiraling for tat tariffs.
The president, though also setting his sights on Europe, now threatening to impose a massive 200 percent tariff on European wine, champagne and spirits, hitting back at the E.U.'s retaliation against his steel and aluminum tariffs and hitting all of us who enjoy a nice glass of Italian wine or French champagne because prices could soon soar.
He is trying to influence wine drinkers. He does not seem to be making any friends.
Let's get straight to our Jeff Zeleny, who is live for us at the White House.
Jeff, I don't know about you. This tariff actually could hit my household bottom line fairly significantly. I don't know if I should admit that on live TV, but lets talk a little bit about kind of the mood at the White House with the NATO secretary general visiting today, as these tariffs were announced, because there is obviously and this is something we saw Trump do in his first term as well, with the wine in particular, there's a symbolism here that perhaps is actually even more important than the economic effects of this.
[16:05:02]
What do you know about all of that?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kasie, we are just almost happy our time in Washington. Not us, of course. We are working. But across Washington, as you know, people step into happy hour.
This is topic of the conversation. There's no doubt about it. These reciprocal tariffs, just these like one after another, after another, they are starting to blend together, except the wine and champagne. And these 200 percent tariffs really are standing out.
But something else is standing out. And you played it right there. The president I think for the first time putting a timeline onto the short term disruption or pain. He said there will be a little disruption, but it won't be very long.
I think we will remember that March 13th, he said. It won't be very long. We shall see how long it lasts. You and I have. Both heard many presidents either say "mission accomplished" or in previous years, "read my lips".
So that was about as close as we get to a president saying it won't be very long. We shall see. The market certainly didn't seem to react that way today.
HUNT: Yeah.
ZELENY: And that is really what we've seen day after day after day. But the president and every source I talked to here say he is embracing, not running away from the idea of a trade war and really even deepening and doubling down. I mean, mark your calendars for the reciprocal tariffs on April 2nd.
So really, we are getting a lesson in geopolitics, geo economics. But everyone is following now the lead of the president. And that was clear in the oval office again today.
HUNT: Jeff, briefly, we also, of course, came in talking about what Vladimir Putin had to say and this ceasefire. What's your understanding of what's next, then, from the White House, given Putin's comments?
ZELENY: Well, look, I mean, the president, I thought also was fairly clear. He said it would be a disappointment to the world if Putin now would not agree to a ceasefire. But, look, I mean, the president, Donald Trump, has walked up to this line here of opening and resetting relations with Vladimir Putin, kind of, you know, building up the idea that he, too, would come along with this.
Now, the U.S. president has fewer cards to play here. So the White House is a bit on the edge of their seats, wondering what Vladimir Putin is going to do. We do know, however, one of the top envoys to the president, Steve Witkoff, is meeting with Vladimir Putin today. That meeting likely already happened. We have not gotten a readout of it yet in Moscow.
So this is something that the Trump administration has a lot riding on. What Putin's next steps are. But the -- the fine print of this is going to make all the difference. What type of concessions will Ukraine give in terms of land? What type of concessions will the U.S. perhaps give? Will they keep supplying weapons to Ukraine during a potential 30-day ceasefire?
So many, many questions on this, but I thought it was very interesting how Donald Trump said it would be a disappointment to the world if Putin does not agree to a ceasefire.
HUNT: Very interesting indeed.
Jeff Zeleny, thanks so much for being there for us. I always love having you on the show.
All right. Our panel is here. Alex Thompson, national political reporter for "Axios", CNN political director David Chalian, David Urban, Republican strategist and former campaign adviser, and the former Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms. Welcome to all of you. Thank you so much for being here.
So who at this table is going to feel the most financial pain from the wine tariffs?
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: David Urban --
DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't drink -- I don't drink, so --
HUNT: You don't?
URBAN: I do not drink.
HUNT: I learned something new every day.
(LAUGHTER)
URBAN: So pox on your house.
CHALIAN: Think of all those clients you buy wine for, right?
ALEX THOMPSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, in the Trump to the Trump message is like, well, buy American wine.
URBAN: This buy American wine. Listen, I --
THOMPSON: Don't give me that look.
URBAN: Interestingly not to pay off the tariffs too much. But one of the things you didn't mention is during this meeting with the secretary general of NATO, you know, the timing and the theater of it, I think, is very important because at the same time, you have Witkoff meeting with Putin, right, and trying to negotiate, and you have this strong, very strong meeting, I think, took place between the secretary general and Trump, very positive, a lot of positive vibes.
If you looked at that meeting, that was a -- that was a successful meeting for the U.S. and for NATO. And at the same time, Putin is sitting in an office building someplace negotiating with Witkoff. You know, the unwritten message there is, you may think NATO and the U.S. aren't tight, but we are.
And I think that's -- that's the message was designed to send today. And I think the Trump administration did a good job delivering that message.
HUNT: So, I mean, do you think that was in fact the message they were trying to send?
URBAN: Listen, I don't know. I was not a part of it, but I would say that you heard the secretary general say NATO is stronger because of your -- your -- your insistence that they pay their fair share. I think the NATO allies now all realize that, that they have to defend themselves. It's up to them. Listen, there was a -- we -- we being the United States, carried the
burden of Europe on our shoulders for a great long time. But I know in Atlanta and in Pittsburgh and other places around the world, there are people who are wondering, like, how much more do we have to pay when kids go to college for free in France, the health care in Germany is fantastic. Norway has a $1,500,000,000,000 sovereign wealth fund.
The European allies are very, very wealthy.
[16:10:00]
They can carry their fair share. And it's about burden sharing, right? And if your friends are going to take care of their own neighborhood like that, that's -- that's on them first. And so I think it was successful.
HUNT: Atlanta was invoked.
KEISHA LANCE BOTTOMS, FORMER ATLANTA MAYOR: Yeah. You know, the issue that I think Americans have in general is that there's no plan. This is just chaos. So whether you agree with the policies of Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton or even Joe Biden, there was always a plan with Reagan, a plan to expand the economy. With Clinton, a plan to reduce the deficit. With Joe Biden, a plan to bring manufacturing back to the U.S.
But with this president, the plan seems to be chaos. We're fighting with our enemies. We're fighting with our friends. And that's the thing that's giving so many people anxiety across this country. And now, a tariff on my champagne -- I mean, this is really real.
URBAN: But -- but I think you could admit that the NATO part of this part, I'm not talking about the tariffs. That's a separate discussion, talking about the NATO, the Putin, the Ukraine settling this issue, I think today was a success. And I think you have to admit that.
CHALIAN: I do think that having Trump -- whether it was completely deliberate hour by hour of the schedule, but having Trump -- I mean, NATO's largest nemesis is Vladimir Putin, right? I mean, that -- that -- that is the threat, right? And so no doubt, having NATO here with Trump, while Putin is with Witkoff, I think, creates imagery that the White House enjoys.
I also thought, in addition to what you were saying about the NATO secretary general giving a boost in the arm to the whole defense spending thing, perhaps more importantly, I thought to my ear it sounded like he was giving this moment in time, giving credit to Trump post that Zelenskyy Oval Office meeting of dislodging from a stalemate and -- and coming to a new moment of this. To hear that from the NATO leader was quite something.
URBAN: That's what I'm saying. I think it was a very successful day in the Oval Office for -- for the president and for the foreign policy team.
HUNT: Was it that though, or Alex, was it -- I mean, if you learned anything, if you watched Keir Starmer go to the White House and then you watched Zelenskyy go to the White House, you learned a lot about, okay, this president seems to require public flattery to get things done.
I mean, is it what -- what David is saying where its actually, oh, no, we are going to be on the same page as NATO? Or is NATO just trying to make sure that they don't get bitten because they handle this wrong?
THOMPSON: Everyone has gotten the memo that if you're going to come to the Oval Office, you need to give Donald Trump a win in public in front of the cameras. And clearly, that's part of what this was.
HUNT: Yeah. Because, look, I mean, I do want to -- David play kind of what Trump had said on the campaign trail about allies versus enemies, because I think it does play into this broader conversation were having about the optics. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The EU was set up in order to take advantage of the United States.
Our country's been ripped off by everybody.
Our allies are worse than our so-called enemies.
They're not allies at all. They take advantage of us.
We were like a pussycat. We were ripped off by every nation in the world. And some of the worst rippers were our so-called allies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: And then, David --
URBAN: You can go back to Larry King. Like Trump, like when he was like, you can go far back. And that's he's saying the exact same thing. We've been suckers, right? We've been taking advantage of. The American people, the people in Atlanta, the people in Pittsburgh, the people who we should be good stewards of, we need to make sure that Americans are getting a fair deal and a square deal, and we should not let our allies run roughshod over us. We should be -- we should. I think reciprocal tariffs are a great idea. If people want to treat us poorly, we should -- we should punch them back in the nose.
THOMPSON: Well, to your point, like buckle up.
URBAN: I think buckle up.
THOMPSON: Because Donald Trump did not hide the ball here during this election. And you know, you think you think its just about wine, like they're going to be more reciprocal tariffs. And Trump does not care about the transatlantic alliance the way that Joe Biden did.
CHALIAN: But he does care about whether or not he loses the American people through this process, even though he doesn't have to run for reelection.
And, you know, look at that number on the screen there. Mark it down, 537 points again today. Him today saying there's disruption but just for a short period of time or it won't be long, as you were discussing with Jeff.
You know those are potential words that could come back to haunt. He better hope that he's right. You see, in all the polling out in the last 48 hours, this country is souring on the economy right now. That has been Donald Trump's strong suit. And I think he is on warning. Right.
URBAN: Here's one. Here's one thing to think about real quickly. Fifty -- this 56 percent of Americans can't put their hands on $1,000. They don't have $1,000 in their checking or savings account. Do you think they care what the equities market is doing today, right? Do you think?
I mean, there's very few people that are impacted by the equities market. People in Beaver County, Pennsylvania, they're worried about their job day to day with the minimum wages. They're not worried about the Nasdaq.
CHALIAN: But the polls are showing broadly the American people are concerned about the economy.
BOTTOMS: Very briefly. But if you look at my home state of Georgia, 18 Fortune 500 companies are based in Georgia. And Georgia voted for Trump. Well, these people are being impacted. Their 401(k)s are being impacted from the people who are cleaning the bathrooms to the CEOs in C-suites.
HUNT: Yeah. All right, everybody, stand by for me.
Right now, I want to ask, what are you hearing to all my sources and friends, you know who you are. Check your inbox. Here's our question for you today. Did Pete Buttigieg make the right call holding out for the presidential race? He, of course, said he is not going to jump into the Senate race in Michigan.
You've got to the bottom of the hour. Send us your thoughts, tips, exclusives, if it's the wrong question, tell us what the right one is. We'll let you in on the conversation later on in the hour.
All right. Coming up next here, the will they, wont they on Capitol Hill? Senate Democrats have been facing a dilemma over what to do about funding the government. Senator Jeff Merkley is here, live in THE ARENA.
Plus, the major showdown coming to the Supreme Court inside the president's effort to get the justices to throw out birthright citizenship.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:20:15] HUNT: All right. Welcome back.
Just in new CNN reporting as Congress barrels toward tomorrow's government shutdown deadline.
Let's get to CNN's Manu Raju, who is live from Capitol Hill.
Manu, just 24 hours ago at this time, you and I were talking about what Chuck Schumer had announced in saying that they were going to try to push back against this plan. You seem to have new reporting that suggests that may no longer be the case.
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Look, senator Chuck Schumer said on the Senate floor that they would block. They didn't have votes to block this Republican plan to keep the government open through September, and that the Democrats would essentially stand together here. But there has been a change in appetite among some Democratic members who they've been having these closed door debates for days, including today, a very lengthy closed door meeting.
And talking to members after that meeting, it is clear that there is a growing belief that there will be enough Democrats, ultimately, at the end of the day, to vote to advance this Republican plan and essentially allow it to become law and avert a government shutdown.
Now, these things are still fluid. And this -- this strategy continues to develop, and there's still some time before tomorrow night. But there is this belief that ultimately, at least eight Democrats, that's what it would take to break a Democratic filibuster, because you need 60 votes to advance.
Now, the Democrats have been grappling with the dilemma that they are facing is either to accept a Republican plan that cuts domestic spending, does not rein in Donald Trump or block that plan. And that could lead to a prolonged government shutdown. That dilemma is a question that I posed about that dilemma to Senator Dick Blumenthal just moments after that closed door launch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: Did Republicans ultimately outmaneuver you guys here, leaving you in a situation where it is a lose-lose situation?
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): Republicans have the majority in the House. They have the majority in the senate. They have the White House. I think at the end of a couple of years, maybe it's just a matter of months, the American people are going to conclude absolute power, autocracy, autocracy and tyranny, not such a great idea.
So it's not a question of being outmaneuvered. It's what Donald Trump is doing to the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: Chuck Schumer is planning on going to the Senate floor sometime this afternoon, potentially indicating whether, in fact, there is a way out, whether, in fact, there might be enough Democrats to move ahead here. So potentially a shutdown could be averted. But as you know, they could still stumble into one in just a matter of hours here -- Kasie.
HUNT: You really do never know. Manu Raju for us on the Hill, thank you as always for that.
And joining us now is a member of the Senate Democratic caucus, Jeff Merkley of Oregon joins us now.
Senator, thank you so much for being here.
SEN. JEFF MERKLEY (D-OR): You bet, Kasie.
HUNT: So I want to start where we left off here. Do you think Democrats should allow the government to shut down if Republicans won't negotiate with you?
MERKLEY: I think that the House Republican plan is horrific and we should be hell no. And we should use our leverage in the Senate to negotiate a much better deal. We have that leverage. This is the moment to use it.
HUNT: Do you not think that there is a risk in allowing the government to shut down? Because using -- your -- your leverage would likely require that when it's clear Republicans are actually interested in cutting government jobs right now.
MERKLEY: Well, Kasie, I don't accept that framework.
We would be putting forward the 30-day continuing resolution that keeps the government open in order to pass the bipartisan spending bills that already came out of the Senate committee, almost every one of them, unanimously, all of them with strong bipartisan support. So if Republicans vote against a 30-day plan to keep the government open, then it's the Republicans who are shutting down the government, not the Democrats.
HUNT: Right. Although, I mean, they would have to let you take that vote in the first place because they, of course, control the floor.
But, Senator, can I ask you to take us inside the lunch that Manu was referencing. Andrew Desiderio, reporter up there on the Hill, put on -- on Twitter that he could, quote, hear Senator Kirsten Gillibrand speaking quite loudly inside the lunch. And she seemed to be making the case against allowing the government to shut down. I've seen at least one other Democratic senator give voice to this in public as well.
We also heard this from your colleague, Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona. I want to play his comments for you, and then well talk about it on the other side.
Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): If we shut down the government, that's generally considered by many people as -- as not a good thing to do. And especially in this environment when we have an unelected billionaire that's already shutting down parts of the government.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[16:25:02]
HUNT: So, of course, Senator Kelly there from Arizona, a swing state in recent elections, where is -- what did you hear from your colleagues in that lunch? And does Senator Kelly have a point?
MERKLEY: Well, the great majority of the caucus has some version of this. If you don't stop -- you don't stop a bully by handing over your lunch money, and you don't stop tyrant Trump by voting to give him more power. That is absolutely the wrong approach.
There are others who say, you know, in a shutdown, the president may have more power than we've seen in any previous shutdown. There is a legitimate case to be made on both sides of this argument.
But here's what I am aware of. And that is in history. As you see, institutions degrade in republics when there's an authoritarian president, it is because the courts cave and you get an acquiescent legislature. And the best time to take on a tyrant is as early as possible. And this is the moment we have the leverage as a Democratic Caucus to insist on negotiations to produce those bills onto the floor, those appropriation bills onto the floor. This is a moment to use that leverage.
I think the concerns about the Republican shutting down the government, because it will be the Republicans that do it, it will hurt them politically. It will be bad policy, and we will get back to using our leverage in an effective fashion.
HUNT: Sir, what do you think? If the government were to shut down because Democrats voted to filibuster or upheld the filibuster, I should say, of this house passed bill, how do you think you'd get it open again? And do you think Republicans would stand in your way?
MERKLEY: Kasie, that's the point that's so important. It won't be shut down because Democrats filibuster. It'll be shut down because Republicans reject keeping it open for 30 days.
We have the ability to go to that bill to make a motion to proceed to that bill. It's been Rule 14 onto the calendar. We can absolutely put that vote up and they can decide not to go to it.
But if that happens, they are in charge. They're in charge of the House, in charge of the Oval Office, in charge of the Senate. And if they vote down keeping the government open, it's on them.
HUNT: Senator, before I let you go, I do want to ask you about the tariffs that we learned that the president plans on putting on the Europeans, a 200 percent tariff on wine from and champagne and spirits as well. I know there's actually a pretty robust wine industry in your home state of Oregon.
Is this something that they would look upon favorably?
MERKLEY: Kasie, ive just been meeting with the ag groups, and we do have the best pinot on the planet. Everyone by that Oregon pinot, and you'll love it.
But indeed, they are very concerned about retaliatory tariffs. We have so many exports. We grow more things in Oregon than in any other state in the Union. All kinds of fruits, berries, row crops, you name it. So there is a lot of stress right now among the agricultural community.
HUNT: All right. Senator Jeff Merkley, very grateful to have you on the show. Thank you so much for being here.
MERKLEY: Thanks, Kasie.
HUNT: All right. Coming up next here, a top Democrat taking a pass on a Senate bid in a key swing state. We'll dig into it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:32:42]
HUNT: All right. Welcome back.
Two major legal developments today in the ongoing saga of President Trump versus the courts. The Trump administration has asked the Supreme Court to allow him to move forward with their plans to end birthright citizenship. That, of course, is something he's been talking about since his first term.
And then in a setback for DOGE, a federal judge ordered six agencies to immediately reinstate thousands of fired employees. It comes the same day of Trump's deadline for agencies to turn in their large scale layoff plans.
CNN's Paula Reid joins us now with more on this.
Paula, this, of course, has been an extensive back and forth on many fronts. What stands out to you today?
PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is the biggest test of Trump's use of executive power so far, right? This is his effort to end birthright citizenship, something that has been recognized by the courts for over a century. So he did this on his very first day. This is one of the first things that he signed, and it sparked nearly a dozen lawsuits.
But so far, federal judges have blocked his policy, not allowed him to implement this. Now, ultimately, in order to succeed on this, he would need the Supreme Court to take his side, because for over 150 years, the courts have understood that the 14th amendment guarantees citizenship to anyone born here, regardless of your parents' immigration status. But now the Trump administration, they're trying to argue that the
word jurisdiction in the 14th Amendment has been misinterpreted for over a century. And they are also making some additional arguments about threats to national security and abuses of birthright citizenship. But overwhelmingly, Kasie, I mean, experts say they really have an uphill battle on this issue.
Now, right now, they're just asking for the Supreme Court to lift all these injunctions blocking this policy. And eventually, though, we do expect that the larger constitutional question will come before the high court. But that could take months, maybe even more.
HUNT: All right. Paula Reid, for us today -- Paula, thank you very much for that.
Our panel is back.
David Chalian, you -- we asked in our or -- I'm sorry, Pew asked in their most recent poll about birthright citizenship. Now, 56 percent of Americans say they disapprove, 43 percent of Americans say that they approve, but, of course --
[16:35:02]
CHALIAN: Disapprove of the executive order, not --
HUNT: Oh, excuse me. You're right. Yes. Disapprove of the executive order.
Now, this, of course, the political question about Trump. What exactly do you see? How do you see the politics interacting here with the court?
CHALIAN: Well, first of all, on the legal front, what we saw from these lower courts, it was some of the most dramatic language we've seen from judges of just how certain they were that this was outside of the bounds of the Constitution. And, and in fact, what the administration, as Paula was saying, like, is asking for the Supreme Court right now is not the actual issue, which they do.
This whole thing of signing the executive order was to spark a fight, get the issue, excite the base, get it before the Supreme Court. What they're asking for today is actually just a more narrow thing of can you limit the scope of this injunction against the executive order? We'll see what the Supreme Court says.
It is definitely a base motivator, but it is not a broad winner with the American people.
URBAN: Yeah. Listen, it speaks to you know, the president got one of the reasons he was he was elected was to fix the border and immigration crisis that we face. And -- and, you know, if your notion is that people who cross the border here illegally, right? I think there's a wide swath of Americans that believe that they shouldn't be able to receive any of the fruits of our -- of our country, right. And that entails, whether their children should be citizens or not. So to David's point, I think it does motivate a large part of the --
if you polled Republicans, I guarantee you those numbers would be completely different. It'd be probably a 70/30, 80/20, 20 number there. So we'll see how it plays out because it is, as Paula said, this isn't going to be decided for -- maybe not until the end of the Trump administration, if that.
HUNT: Madam Mayor, the sort of big picture here. Of course, we also have this ruling today about federal layoffs. So the courts saying to this kind of really the first big moment where they have said, hey, what you were doing to the government, you have to -- you can't do it basically. What is your view of, frankly, how long it's taken to get to that point and the impact that that has?
BOTTOMS: Yeah. It's chaos and distraction as we are looking at these federal layoffs, as we're talking about what's going on with NATO and tariffs, et cetera. The price of eggs are still high, and it is -- I'm still looking for the plan.
So what I'm feeling at home, and I know its being felt across the country. People are anxious and people are ready for the president to deliver on those things that he said that he would do on day one. We're still waiting on that.
And I would just say, you know, the president not that he needs my advice or wants my advice, but lean into those things that you said that you would do. You said that you would lower inflation in this country. We're going in the opposite direction. You said you would end the war in Ukraine on day one. We are still looking at a war in Ukraine.
So I think its just chaos and distraction. And I think it's par for the course.
THOMPSON: Well, I can -- well, I can tell you that while the politics are uncertain, the chaos is very much intentional. And that they came in, in some ways, they actually see the fact that he lost in 2020 as a blessing in disguise because they spent the last four years strategizing every executive order, all of these court challenges, birthright citizenship, everything.
The fact is that they wanted to try to -- they were citing previous precedent of like the 14th Amendment stuff. They want to change the court precedent. And so much of this is actually very intentional. The chaos is part of the point.
URBAN: And the federal workers, again, to this court point, right. This is another just this will be appealed again, right? And the federal workers may have a temporary reprieve, but they may lose the appellate court.
And the broader question is that the Trump administration is trying to address is, you know, how do you hire and fire federal employees, which is, you know, people say, well, let's just -- let's just fix the law. That -- to fix that law would take many years. Can you imagine getting 60 votes on, like redoing the civil service
system? And so what the Trump administration has been doing is they've been taking the lowest hanging fruit, probationary employees who are people who have been employed 2 or 3 years and, and they could be fired basically for, you know, everybody is an at will employee at some point, but they really are at will employees.
And so those folks, unfortunately, are being let go with a meat cleaver rather than a scalpel.
CHALIAN: And we should just note that probationary doesn't mean they've done something wrong. No, no, no, it just means that they are new to their job. That's a term of art. Yeah, exactly.
BOTTOMS: Yeah, but these probationary employees also include people who had gotten promotions and are considered probationary. So I don't think they're --
URBAN: Madam Mayor, I don't -- I don't disagree with you, but if you were to say to me, David, let's sit down and redo the entire civil service system, I'd say, go, let's sit down, right? Because we should be able to keep good employees and fire bad ones.
BOTTOMS: Yeah, but --
URBAN: And the problem is you can't do that in the federal government right now.
BOTTOMS: Yeah. But right now you are labeling thousands of people as bad employees without even --
URBAN: No, no, I think they're labeling them as excess employees. It's like its like for those of us who live in Washington, D.C., when WTOP comes on and says, snow this morning.
[16:40:03]
Nonessential government employees don't show up, like they should just take all those people who didn't show up today, don't come to work ever again. But if you're not essential --
CHALIAN: But, David, this isn't just a Washington, D.C. thing. This actually is not what I'm saying. This is impacting folks nationally. It is the -- it is the Elon Musk-led effort. And it's not wearing well with the American public right now.
He is more unpopular than almost any other official in the administration, and it's being connected with the economic concerns we were talking about earlier. The public sees what this effort as harming the economy, as well as harming the effort. So I just think they are walking a very tricky line here.
BOTTOMS: And one-third are veterans. Don't forget that.
HUNT: There are a lot -- quite a few veterans. That's something we see pop up over and over again, especially with members of Congress. All right. Coming up next here, the announcement today from a top
Democrat who is not running for one office. And that is, of course, sparking talk that he is planning to run for another higher office. We'll explain.
Plus something totally different. The warm bandit down under.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:45:28]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN COLBERT, TV HOST: There's going to be an open Senate seat in 2026. Is there anything you'd like to tell us?
PETE BUTTIGIEG, FORMER TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: Not tonight. I've been looking at it. Look, I've decided that I'm going to continue, to work on the things that I care about to defend the values that I was just talking about. I have not decided what that means professionally. Whether that means running for office soon or not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: It's Friday. This is Thursday. Now, we know the answer to that question.
Former Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg will not be running for the open Michigan Senate seat in 2026, a decision that sets him up in the strongest possible position to run for president in 2028, a source familiar with Buttigieg's thinking tells CNN.
Earlier, I asked my sources and friends this, did Pete Buttigieg make the right call holding out for the presidential race? Here's what a couple of you had to say.
Quote, losing a Senate primary would close the door for any presidential run. If he can't win a primary in battleground Michigan, how can he win it for Democrats in 2028? That coming from a Democratic communications strategist.
Another Democratic campaign operative wrote in this, quote, he's a legit candidate for president with zero voting record. Running for Senate negates his no voting record advantage. This is a smart move by Mayor Pete.
Alex Thompson, that adviser, also said he's actually had his personal life has been vetted on the national stage, and it's been fine. So that gives him kind of a two fold advantage in a Democratic primary. But what are your sources been telling you?
THOMPSON: There was significant concern about his ability to win, not just the Senate primary, but also the general election, the Senate race. People forget that Pete Buttigieg was part of the 2020 Democratic primary, in which a lot of the party moved to the left. You know, that that -- that ad about, you know, having gender affirming care for migrants and prisoners that was run against Kamala Harris, he answered it the exact same way on the ACLU questionnaire, like they would run the exact same ads against him in Michigan for that Senate race.
HUNT: Raise your hand. Remember, everyone's like, raise your hand if you're for this. The entire panel raise their hand being far left.
Look, Pete Buttigieg -- I'm not -- I'm, you know, far be it for me, Madam Mayor, to tell you who you're going to pick. But, you know, I'm sticking with my guy, Josh Shapiro, still right in Pennsylvania. I like Wes Moore. I can name about six other, you know, Democratic nominees that I think are better positioned to win this -- win this fight than the Pete -- this is your team. So I give it to you. Yeah.
BOTTOMS: You know, I think were going to have an embarrassment of riches. I think they're going to be --
HUNT: You know who said that?
URBAN: Well played.
HUNT: Republicans in 2016, okay, and they landed Donald Trump.
(LAUGHTER)
BOTTOMS: A lot of -- lot of great candidates.
URBAN: You don't have to pick anybody.
BOTTOMS: But you have to think about it. If Pete does run, there will be voters in 2028 who were ten years old when he first ran for president. So he's going to have to reintroduce himself to a lot of folks.
CHALIAN: And a question about Buttigieg, who's clearly a very talented politician, super smart guy, has the ability to go on Fox News and tussle in a way that a lot of Democratic politicians don't. All those things apply to his skill set.
My big question hanging over is -- where have you improved your standing with voters in a Democratic primary context since you last ran for president? So, do we know that Pete Buttigieg has more of a following, an affinity among Black voters? Because Black voters tend to decide Democratic presidential primaries in a large way, when you look at delegate allocation in the contest, and that was people who just huge up flaw.
Is he improving beyond college educated voters? Which clearly the Democratic nominee will need to do in the general election context. And so I do think those questions still hang over where has Buttigieg improved his vote pool since he last ran?
URBAN: I think here's even a broader question to ask where's the Democratic Party going to be in 2028, right? You got to skate to the -- to take a hockey analogy, you got to skate to where the puck is going, right? And so is it going to be more conservative, more progressive? Where is the party going to end up? I think that's a big question. And that will tell you who's going to win the primary.
HUNT: Well, one place that clearly some of these potential candidates think that they need to do some work is among male voters. And so it seems like Democrats seem to be trying to address that by talking about sports. I'll just say women like sports, too. I'm a massive sports fan.
But that's part of the rationale behind this. Let's watch a little bit of what we've seen from a number of these people lately.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D), PENNSYLVANIA: The chatter about the passing game going into that game against the Steelers was kind of overblown, to be honest with you.
GOV. KATHY HOCHUL (D), NEW YORK: You don't have to say hi or goodbye. It's real simple. Just say "Go Bills".
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): It was a rough weekend in terms of the Knicks and seeing what happened with Cleveland and Boston, although I will say that it looked like they were out of it, and then they made a little run in the third quarter.
[16:50:10]
GOV. WES MOORE (D), MARYLAND: When you're thinking about all the young talent that's there and locked in, and the ability to now, I mean, we have one of the best pitching rotations in baseball right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Okay. So, David, can I just say more people probably saw Hakeem Jeffries on Steve Smith --
URBAN: I'm sure, listen --
HUNT: -- than they had anywhere else in a long time.
URBAN: I will vouch for Wes Moore and Josh Shapiro street sports cred. I've known them for a long time. They're sports fans.
Wait, what does he think about the brotherly -- brotherly shove? Does Shapiro approve of it? Was he asked? I didn't listen to the whole podcast.
(LAUGHTER)
URBAN: There you go.
HUNT: But seriously, I mean, this is one of the things, one of the lessons Democrats seem to have taken away from the last campaign. They need to be in more spaces like.
URBAN: Joe Rogan podcast, people where they are. BOTTOMS: For the record, I kept stats for the basketball team when I
was --
URBAN: Future president, I don't know.
BOTTOMS: And my daughter is the biggest sports fan in the house. But -- but you're right, we've got to meet people where they are. And a lot of people I love CNN, happy to be here, but a lot of people are tuned in to other places. I look at what -- my, my, how my kids get their information. It's here. And so I think going on podcasts and talking about things that people are talking about in the hair salon and barbershop makes a big difference.
CHALIAN: It was unclear to me if we should be looking at Hakeem Jeffries in that clip, or Stephen A. Smith who about entering in politics. So we do -- we may see the conversion of these two worlds.
URBAN: Yeah.
THOMPSON: There are some Democrats that think that this strategy is about just changing communications, but there are also some Democrats that believe that you actually need -- it's not just about communication, it's about policy. It's about plan.
It's about what the agenda you're putting forward. And that Kamala Harris didn't lose because she didn't go on Joe Rogan and Kamala Harris lost for other reasons. And that's sort of the debate in the party right now.
HUNT: Is it about authenticity at the end of the day?
THOMPSON: I mean, that is part of it, right? I think there was some feeling that Kamala Harris and go on Joe Rogan, because she couldn't do a three-hour podcast and there -- but also like Trump doesn't go on these sports podcasts because Trump isn't like a diehard sports fan. So I do think you have to also be authentic to who you are.
URBAN: Yeah. Look, again you know, if its golf, like Trump, Trump holds his own right. Trump could -- he could. He talks golf. I've seen him, you know, talk about the guy hitting the ball or woman hitting him. You see his granddaughter.
I mean, he's a golf fanatic, right? He holds his own with anybody. But you know you got to be comfortable where you are. And again, it's skating to where the puck is, in this instance, right?
CHALIAN: He's also been showing up in a lot of sporting events, Army- Navy game, Super Bowl.
(CROSSTALK)
URBAN: UFC.
CHALIAN: He's been making sure that --
URBAN: I was in the Oval -- I was in the Oval Office with the Stanley Cup winning, you know, Florida Panthers. And the president was, you know, chatting with all these hockey players, Canadian hockey players, right? All from all over the world. And they they --they had a vibe. They really loved it.
HUNT: Yeah. All right. Well, I guess were I predict well see a lot more of it for -- for what that's worth.
All right. Let's turn briefly to this story. There was chaos inside Trump Tower today as dozens of protesters stormed the lobby in support of the Palestinian activist Mahmoud Khalil, who was detained by ICE. Here's what it looked like earlier, activists with Jewish Voice for Peace organized the demonstration.
You can see people wearing red shirts reading "Jews say stop arming Israel" and banners demanding the release of Khalil. Police say that they arrested nearly 100 people.
All right. Coming up next here, a baby wombat is now at the center of a global controversy. I'm sorry. What?
And this Sunday, a new episode of the CNN original series "TWITTER: BREAKING THE BIRD".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I came into work one morning. I get to the office, I'm sweating, I backpack, I walked all the way. And Jason Goldman says, Ev's downstairs waiting for you in his car. And I was like, what are you talking about? And Ev had his Porsche.
So I got in and I was like, so Goldman says we're going somewhere. Where are we going? He was like, were going to talk to Mark Zuckerberg.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mark was interested in acquiring Twitter. So like Biz, we're going to Palo Alto.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And this is the first time I'm hearing about any of this.
So I was like, okay, if he says, like, what's the number? Like, what do you guys want? We just say something so outlandishly ridiculous.
And I started, like, laughing before I could even say it, because I made up the biggest number I could think of -- $500 million.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:59:02]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This quarter baby wombat.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at the mother. It's like, oh, it's chasing after her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: An American tourist, they're snatching a wild baby wombat from her mother, I am sorry. What? You do not do that. Clearly -- oh, my God, that influencer who has since made all accounts private, obviously caused significant distress for both the mother and the baby by picking it up and running away with the joey.
Now, apparently she did release the baby wombat, but her visa is now under review and she may be barred from ever entering Australia again.
Jake Tapper is standing by for "THE LEAD".
Jake, like, I mean -- I'm like as -- as a -- I'm a mother. So, I'm kind of like outrage.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, THE LEAD: Let me just say, like kind of outraged future member of Congress, clearly. And this more evidence that our country is getting dumber -- dumber and dumber and dumber every day. Idiocracy was supposed to be a comedy, not a how to manual. I do not know what's going on.
HUNT: Yeah, I just -- I don't know. I think it's outrageous and really sad. And social media clearly makes people worse, not better, Jake.
TAPPER: Agreed. I mean, you're preaching to the choir. I mean, I don't know what else to say except amen. Amen, sister.
HUNT: All right. Well --
TAPPER: I'll see you back in THE ARENA tomorrow. Thanks, Kasie.
HUNT: All right. See you soon.
"THE LEAD" starts right now.
