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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Now: Closing Bell On Wall Street As Trump's Tariffs Tank Stocks; Supreme Court Gives Trump First Win In Effort To Curb DEI. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired April 04, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Breaking news right now on CNN.
Let's head into THE ARENA.
Historic losses as U.S. stocks tanked for a second day. The market rout unleashed by President Trump's trade war deepening the economic turmoil around the world, sinking in. The closing bell just moments away.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
[16:00:00]
HUNT: I'm Kasie Hunt.
Thanks for joining us here in THE ARENA on this Friday.
We are following a huge breaking story on Wall Street. The shock of President Trump's tariffs causing the stock market to meltdown again today.
That there, the closing bell with the Dow down more than 2,000 points for only the fourth time ever.
I want to get straight to CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich. She is live from the New York Stock Exchange.
Vanessa, what has it been like there today? And what does it mean that the numbers are where they are as that closing bell rings?
VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. And I'm just looking over my shoulder as these numbers -- numbers settle. As you said, the Dow down 2,200 points. You have the S&P down almost 6 percent and the Nasdaq down over 5.5 percent.
You know, the mood here today has been one of frustration, disbelief as investors really watch this trade war play out in real time and react in real time. I just spoke to an analyst before coming on air, and he said that consumers vote, and this is Wall Street voting, and this is not a good vote. They are waiting to see and have been waiting to see whether there would be a de-escalation of this trade war. That is certainly not what they are seeing.
They were waiting to see how our biggest trading partners would retaliate, and they saw that this morning when China announced a retaliation of a 34 percent tariff on U.S. goods. Investors here also seeing what's going to happen with the European Union, another key trading partner.
But this really caps off a week of just confusion, uncertainty and really disbelief over what is happening. One analyst this morning writing that he has been covering the markets for 25 years. He mentioned the dotcom bubble, the financial crisis, COVID, and he's never seen anything like this.
And that is because this is self-inflicted, according to him. This is self-inflicted. This did not need to happen. We did not need to see these numbers on Wall Street today.
But this is what happens when you launch a global trade war, and you have other countries that are willing to retaliate. The end of the week here on Wall Street. Not a pretty picture. You see the Dow there down more than 2,200 points, Kasie.
HUNT: Vanessa, how much of this is a reflection of the fact that it's worse than what was expected, in part worse than what some of these analysts thought the president might do?
YURKEVICH: Yeah, that is exactly it. It is much worse than they expected. And so now, they're pricing in the worst case scenario, that this is a trade war that drags on for a while, that more and more countries start to reciprocate. And this just escalates. They're not seeing any sign of real negotiation of any backing off by the president.
Yes. There have been some conversations today with foreign countries saying that they may lower their tariff rates, but they haven't seen anything tangible. They want to see deals and they want to see the president walk this back. I spoke to one analyst who said that really, the president has a month to get this together and try to walk back and peel back some of these tariffs. Otherwise, we're in a really bad place, according to this analyst, Kasie.
HUNT: All right, Vanessa, stand by for us.
I want to bring in our panel now, CNN anchor, chief domestic correspondent, Phil Mattingly, Chuck Todd, the host of "The Chuck Toddcast", Kate Bedingfield, former Biden White House communications director, and Republican strategist Brad Todd is with us. And we also have Gene Sperling, the former Biden White House economic official.
I'm very grateful to have all of you here.
And, you know, Gene, let me actually start with you, because obviously, people didn't feel great about the economy when Joe Biden was president. People have been struggling with grocery prices all the way along here. And voters sent the message in the election, this latest election, that they wanted Donald Trump -- what Donald Trump had given them in his first term.
The reality is he inherited an economy that was relatively strong, at least on paper, even if voters didn't hear it that way. Things are dramatically different now.
Can you give us a little bit of perspective on what this means, and the reality that the Republican Party in power are the ones who did this?
GENE SPERLING, FORMER WHITE HOUSE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN COORDINATOR: Well, it is shocking and very disappointing. It's also, as I think, someone you quoted said and I'll make it stronger. It is one of the worst self-inflicted economic wounds in U.S. history. I want to be clear when we're talking about other moments where markets have gone down like this, it has been war, depression, the pandemic, the financial crisis.
You are right. This economy was quite stable and strong. I mean, 2.8 percent growth, 4 percent unemployment, inflation had come down. What people were unhappy about was price levels. Even though inflation was coming down, they still remembered when eggs and milk and meat were lower prices.
So, you know, I think if I was advising or I think if anybody, you know, with common sense was advising this president, they would have said, you've got a beautiful soft landing coming. What you need to do is don't mess that up. And focus every day on prices, because in this really strong, steady economy, that was the one thing that people were unhappy about.
So, it's kind of shocking to see for no reason at all a president proposed something that's not only heartbreaking for me to think of people who've lost 10, 11 percent of their life savings, or 401K or IRA, but has led to not just experts like Goldman Sachs seeing inflation going from 2.1 percent to now, 3.5 percent. But average people are saying they now expect inflation to be higher.
Consumer confidence has gone down so much just due to President Trump's tariff policies that people are now more pessimistic about the next 12 months than they've been since the pandemic. All of that was self-inflicted. And it is -- it is puzzling, disappointing, but it shows a certain reckless disregard for realities that we've seen in DOGE. And now we've seen, affecting the entire global economy.
HUNT: So, Chuck Todd, big picture here. This is obviously a policy that the president has believed in for the entirety of his life, his public life, his political life. You've -- you've been around the block. Youve seen a lot.
Did you ever think you'd see this?
CHUCK TODD, HOST, THE CHUCK TODDCAST: Well, no, but, you know, I think that the one thing that I think we don't -- we didn't price in enough is, you know, yes, Donald Trump's a transactional guy on a lot of things, but he's been consistent on one thing, right? It goes all the way back to 1987, when he first time he sort of played, bought a paid political advertisement. It was to trash the fact that the American leadership allowed Japan to eat our lunch and was doing all these things. So, he truly believes this. What I will just say is, let's accept the premise that he believes
this is the right way to reindustrialize America. He politically did this in such a poor way. He should have gotten his tax cut first. He actually should have waited six months to do this sort of let people know that it was hanging over their head, seeing what kind of deals he could have cut, seeing what kind of companies would make pledges to invest more in America, get the tax cut, sort of use the -- there was a way, if you really believed in this, there was a way to do this methodically and with a little bit of precision.
But he did it very haphazardly. And it does. It appears to me it's funny that Gene said he doesn't seem to be getting any advice. I think the people that would have advised restraint weren't allowed in the room.
I question whether the treasury secretary has even been allowed to give advice because he, my understanding is every conversation he had on Capitol Hill, he was saying, I don't know. I don't know what's going to happen here, the treasury secretary.
HUNT: That's remarkable.
Phil, what are you hearing?
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: I mean, I think the most critical point to understand is two things from -- from what Chuck was saying, just to bounce off of him. One, the people around him now are what's different from why he didn't allow this thing that has animated him since the 1980s to go this far in the first term, the people around him --
(CROSSTALK)
C. TODD: Gary Cohen to grab a piece of paper on the table --
MATTINGLY: The Wall Street trade warriors fight no longer exists. It is trade warriors or less trade warriors, or maybe slightly less trade warriors who are there to execute what the president wants. There's never been a dispute over where they wanted to take this, and they also have four years of economic theory that they believe backs up their case. And they believe it.
They believe they think everyone was wrong in the first term. And I think what Vanessa said was the best case scenario is fascinating, because the best case scenario is Trump starts making deals based on what street guys are telling her. If he starts making deals, that's the worst case scenario for their actual long term agenda, the tax cuts.
Uncertainty in this market is devastating to the overarching economic agenda that they have. Getting tax cuts passed, getting companies to reinvest. And that's the space they're just living in right now.
KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And he is also saddled himself with an economic message that is incredibly hard to execute. So, if you look at if you look at the Biden economic message from the 2024 campaign, which was essentially we've made investments that are going to pay off. People don't want to hear that. They don't want to hear this is going to work.
It's like I learned --
C. TODD: I tried that.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
BEDINGFIELD: Free advice.
HUNT: Didn't do it to ourselves on purpose.
BEDINGFIELD: Let me give you a little free advice. People don't want to hear this is going to be good for you in 10 years, even if it is going to be good for you in ten years. So, it is -- it is, you know, aside from it almost sounds absurd to say, aside from the real impact this is having on the global economy, which is -- is significant, you know, from a political standpoint and to the point that that Phil is making about his long term agenda, he has -- he has made the political argument for himself much, much harder when you see him out now saying, you know, just you just got to hang in there and the pain is just going to last for a year. That's a tough argument.
HUNT: How are those Republican senators that you do so much work for, Brad? How are they holding up today and yesterday?
BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, I think first off, we got to remember that the tariff power that is in the Constitution is for the Congress. But over 100 years, they've gradually delegated it to the president.
They can take it back. Most of these tariffs are executed under an emergency declaration by the president, which Congress can nullify. So, Donald Trump has two pressures, right? On the one pressure, he has to make something that he really believes in work. And he can, by the way, because most Americans think we should not be taken advantage of.
But he also has to keep Republicans in Congress happy with him. And plenty of Republicans are free traders at their core. So, he has to keep their confidence up.
I think the way he does that is with deals. You know, Germany needs a deal, the EU needs a deal with Donald Trump right now. One out of four cars made in Europe comes to the United States. They cannot just suddenly sell 25 percent less cars.
Their tariffs are four times as high as ours. They have to come down. So, it's time to make a deal. Eric Trump, the president's son, has said that that's what it's deal time. Then you got Peter Navarro in the White House saying no deals.
C. TODD: No deals, I know. So, who do you believe? B. TODD: It's like two little -- two little animals on the president's
shoulder. They're arguing and he's got to navigate those two things to prove he's serious about it and also get deals.
HUNT: Yeah, I mean, you can put up the truth that says my policies will never change. I'm like looking at the time stamp here, 8:44 a.m. This is like a few hours, Chuck, after he says on Air Force One, I'm available to negotiate. Like bring me some deal. Like, which one is it?
C. TODD: So, I suspect that we're going to see some deals, but not a lot of deals. And I think this is and I'll be curious to see whether it's enough, like, I do think he personalizes everything, right? There's not going to be a big deal with China right away. And I question whether he'll do a deal with the E.U.
But he will do a deal with the U.K., because they broke away on Brexit. So, he almost sees a kindred spirit. I think he will do a deal with Japan because Japan has worked -- Japan's leadership has worked really hard to have a personal relationship with Donald Trump.
B. TODD: South Korea will get a deal.
C. TODD: But I don't know. I'm not so sure there on South Korea.
I think, you know, first of all, they have their own leadership vacuum right now, number one. And there is this weird sort of angst. There is, you know, he thinks the South Koreans may not have helped him do his deal with North Korea, right?
So that's what I'm wondering here is it just a couple of deals for the preferential treatment countries, right? The countries he wants to do deals with. And is that going to be enough to satisfy the markets or to satisfy the business community? I don't think it is, but he's got one thing on his side.
House Republicans will give him a lot more room to run than Senate Republicans. And the fact is, Congress can't take away this authority unless the House and the Senate agree.
BEDINGFIELD: Yeah, I assume the tough talk on there will be no deals is just an attempt to bring people to the table. I mean, that feels like that that is his effort to sort of say, you know, to bring people to the table. The problem is you can't, you know, you can -- you can let these things play out.
But there are real economic impacts. I mean, there's not -- this is not simply like you wave a magic wand and you kind of erase, you know, whatever the -- has happened to the market for the last month while you've been playing out these politics. So, there are real consequences.
HUNT: Gene Sperling is still with us.
Gene, what is your sense of how long president Trump might have before any of the impacts here are simply not reversible or not mostly reversible.
SPERLING: Well, I mean, you've already had a tremendous amount of damage. You know, look, going back to something that, you know, some of your panelists have said, you know, there are smart and dumb ways to do things. This is in the reckless and destructive.
It does remind me of DOGE at a larger level. There are smart ways with thoughtfulness that you can reduce government, increase efficiency. I am somebody who does share a belief that we should strengthen manufacturing, that we should be willing to use tariffs selectively against bad actors, that we can increase location.
But look at what you're doing here. This is not strategic. What they announced was just kind of a made-up fantasy number, which now has taken us away from the high side.
And also, it is really -- I mean, it's not just that the market is down. This is hurting people. People are projecting costs will go up from $2,000 to $4,000 for a family, but it's going to be worse. They're going to feel it when they buy a new car, when they buy new shoes or new clothes or toothpaste, it's going to be felt.
And let me say something about the tax cut issue. It is not going to escape American consumers that he is essentially putting a significant tax on them.
[16:15:03]
At the same time, he is now going to argue for Medicaid cuts to them and significant tax cuts for the well-off. But -- but I think that uncertainty breeds uncertainty. When everybody pauses at the same time, if everybody says, we're not sure we're going to increase jobs, we don't know if hospitality is going to increase. You hire less, you give less wages. People start to spend less. They're worried about inflation.
As Kate said, this is not just a political game. This is about real people's lives. And we have gone from a steady, soft landing to now a significant high chance of a slowdown and even a decent chance of a recession.
And it can be very hard to unwind when that kind of uncertainty hits, not just at the corporate and investor level, but among average families and small businesses making day by day decisions.
HUNT: Yeah, well, and, Phil Mattingly, one other piece of this is, of course, the federal reserve. And you had Donald Trump telling Jerome Powell, cut interest rates, Jerome, stop playing politics. It's almost like he's banking on something like that to try to pull us out of what we're seeing today.
MATTINGLY: Yeah.
HUNT: It's --
MATTINGLY: I mean, it was a fascinating split screen because Jerome Powell also had public comments today. And the first ones really since the tariffs were unveiled. First off, the president seems to think that Jay Powell has unilateral authority to affect interest rates with the federal open market committee, which I think is something they need to work on, on some level.
Look, him jawboning a Fed chair is something we saw in the first term. It's something we haven't seen by anybody else ever. It is what it is. I think everybody kind of expected it on some level. I think the reality is though, him telling Jay Powell to cut rates as Jay Powell is speaking in a Q&A saying bigger than we all expected.
I'm in no hurry to move because I got to figure out what this all means. We have no idea what this is going to look like. We haven't been able to forecast this out on a macro basis is like a -- that's everything, right?
Like the Fed chair was surprised. The Fed chair has no idea what's going to happen. The Fed chair doesn't know how your policy is going to work because of all the uncertainty there. I actually think it's probably the best kind of capture of things today. As the presidents telling him, cut rates.
BEDINGFIELD: Now, uncertainty manifesting itself in a very tangible way.
B. TODD: He said he was going to do this. He said he was going to do this. Jay Powell shouldn't be surprised.
(CROSSTALK)
B. TODD: He shouldn't be surprised. He's -- you know, he watched the campaign presumably unless he was out of the country. He said he was going to do this.
C. TODD: You think -- you think all those Republican senators really believed he'd do it like this?
B. TODD: Well, I don't know that they thought he would do it across the board, I think -- I think an aggressive tariff regimen is what people expected, but not across the board.
HUNT: Yeah. All right. Up next, reaction to the president's global trade war from key lawmakers in both parties. Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar joins us live.
Plus, Republican Congressman Tim Burchett of Tennessee will be here live in THE ARENA.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:22:09]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We decided not to move forward on that. And in part it was the thought of taking on some additional risks when we didn't know, building the building. How like what -- how would the costs of building that building increase?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: That's a brewery owner in Minnesota talking about the decisions that he is already making, because of what we are seeing from President Trump's tariffs, as markets have been plunging and allies have been panicking. So, how are Democrats trying to push back against President Trump's tariffs?
Senator Amy Klobuchar joins us live now from Capitol Hill.
Senator, thanks so much --
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): Hey, Kasie.
HUNT: -- for being here. That, of course, somebody from your home state of Minnesota saying, you know, they get their steel from China for the tanks, they get the beer cans from Mexico, from Canada, they get other, other goods.
What's your reaction and what have you been hearing from your constituents about how they're reacting?
KLOBUCHAR: I've been predicting this, Kasie, for weeks and came out strong against this. I know that our states, the fourth biggest ag exporter of any state in the country. I know that breweries and small businesses across our state, they're not -- they're not just in isolation. They depend on the rest of the world for parts, for machines, for their markets, for their soybeans.
That's what's going on in our state. And I think mostly as I watch the news, and I love all these experts you guys have had on from Wall Street, other places.
And Gene Sperling, of course, amazing. But as I listen to all of it, I just keep thinking, yes, it's tough on Wall Street, but it's really tough on main street. A guy pushing a mop. Just now, when I came to go on your show in the bowels of the Capitol, he looked at me and he said, this is me. This is about me and my mom.
And he said, I just talked to my mom and she has her savings and that's it. That's all she has are those savings. And I -- he just immediately was pouring out about what this meant to him.
And I just think right now, what's going on across our country, it's not just people looking at their high end. And oh, I lost $1 billion. I lost millions of dollars for the wealthy people. The people most hit by this in the cruelest way are the people that least deserve it.
The guy pushing the mop and his mom. Thats what we're talking about here. This is a $4,000 tax on the average American family. We call it the Trump tariff tax.
And so, what are we doing about it? Oh, they're going to have a chance to fix it tonight. The Republicans, because Senator Schumer and I and others have an amendment that they're going to vote on in the context of this budget they have that gives a bunch of money to billionaires.
And the amendment simply says, okay, if costs are up for groceries and household goods and things like that, then you've got to rescind the tariffs, except for, say, Iran and North Korea and some of these countries.
[16:25:02]
You got to rescind them back to the day that Donald Trump took office.
And then at least we would be back at the starting field, having dried up markets all over the world, but nevertheless a lot of the craziness would go away. So, if they have so much trouble Republicans with these tariffs, they should vote with us on this amendment tonight.
HUNT: Senator, there's also a broader bill to take some of the tariff authority that congress has given away to the president over the years, back for the Congress.
Do you think that there is a realistic possibility that that moves in some way or not?
KLOBUCHAR: I hope so, and that has some bipartisan support. If you're referring to the bill that I'm on with Senator Cantwell and Senator Grassley, there are a number of pieces.
HUNT: Yeah.
KLOBUCHAR: Yeah. So that was bipartisan. Even Democrats and Republicans, that we have put forward. Of course, we should be taking back our authority. And we know there's a crack in the wall already. As four Republicans joined Tim Kaine and myself and Mark Warner when we put forward just two days ago, a bill to take back the emergency powers when it comes to Canada because they were bogus.
And so those are the kinds of things we can push on. But in the end, our Republican senators over here, they've got to stand up.
This is not a kingdom. Even though the president claims he's a king. He's not. They were independently elected in their states, and they need to stand up for their farmers and their manufacturers and their consumers and their small businesses, and they have their first test case tonight.
HUNT: Senator, I want to show you something that President Trump reposted on his truth social platform. And it was someone who suggested that Trump is purposefully crashing the market. It's a little graphic, and you can see it there on your screen. And he recirculated this image.
What do you make of the fact that he did that? And do you think he is crashing the market on purpose?
KLOBUCHAR: First of all, I was thinking to myself, did he do that while he was on the golf course or while he was dining at Mar-a-Lago? I hope to God he's not doing that. He's long been skeptical about the way all of this works, but at the same time, he never seems to care about those little small businesses or those small farms, or the guy pushing them up in the capital. Thats not who he's looking out for.
So, I have no idea. But what I do know is that it is time for him to realize that this did not work. It's going to be a disaster. We look at our economy, which had come out of the pandemic stronger than most. My state had one of the lowest unemployment rates that we've seen in recent years, the last few years.
And now look at what's happening. Major companies in my state, just down, down, down. And again, I think a lot of those can absorb it for a few weeks or a few months, and then we'll see what happens. But it's not going to be good.
But the small guys, they're not going to be able to absorb it. Why would he want to do this to our country? Is that into shock and awe? I have no idea. But all I know is that it's yes, shock people and we have literally lost over 10 percent of the market in just two days. He did that.
HUNT: Senator Amy Klobuchar, very grateful to have you on the show. Hope you'll come back soon.
KLOBUCHAR: Great to be on. Thank you.
HUNT: All right. Coming up next here, some Republicans taking on the president over his tariffs. But how far will they be willing to go?
Plus, the new video of former President Obama, his comments on the policies of his successor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is up to all of us to fix this. It's not going to be. It's not going to be because somebody comes and saves you.
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[16:33:20]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM CRAMER, CNBC HOST: I feel like a sucker tonight. Because I am not a free trader. This is what they came up with. Jeez. Come on. Have some gumption. Have some math.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: That was last night before this reaction. The reaction to China joining the trade war, prompting the Dow to drop more than 2,000 points for just the fourth time in American history.
And it's not just Jim Cramer who thinks this is all way worse than anybody expected.
Let's check in with Republicans, even those who otherwise usually completely refuse to say anything critical of President Trump. Here's what Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky wrote today under the headline, terminate the Trump tariffs before it's too late.
Quote, Republicans would be wise to rediscover their principles and oppose new and high taxes. It is time we saved the American people from high prices and prevent the Democrat restoration to power. It is time to terminate the tariffs. He said a lot there with a few words.
This was Senator Ted Cruz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): If the result is our trading partners jack up their tariffs and we have high tariffs everywhere, I think that is a bad outcome for America. Tariffs are a tax on consumers and I'm not a fan of jacking up taxes on American consumers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Our panel has returned.
Brad Todd, two voices that are usually very much with President Trump. Are we going to see more of that? Is this the place where, I mean, it breaks?
B. TODD: Well, I think if you get the Peter Navarro version which says all tariffs now and forever, then you're going to get more Republicans to voice that. If you get the Eric Trump version which says we're going to negotiate, now's the time to come get your deal. Theres a way to then I think they will stick with him.
[16:35:01]
There's a way to do this, and that is to say, should the United States face tougher tariffs from other countries than they -- than we impose on them? It's just a matter of fairness. If President Trump sells it that way, A, he will get deals and, B, Republicans will stick with him.
BEDINGFIELD: I think part of the challenge is going to be that there's a certain abstractness to that argument for the average person, whereas if the cost of what they're buying, you know, at Walmart or elsewhere is going up, and that's what they're going to be feeling, and so the pressure is going to just continue to ramp up on these Republican, particularly Republican senators, although I think there will be some fissure in the House, too, if the pressure continues to -- to rise and the unpopularity of these moves continue to rise.
At the end of the day, I think the price issue is going to drive dissatisfaction, which is going to in turn, drive fissures. And it's going to be interesting to see whether this is -- this is a moment, is this finally the moment where Republicans who privately complain about Trump speak out publicly? B. TODD: Well, you're right in the fact that we have a blue collar
coalition in the Republican Party now. And so, they feel prices first. And we also have a small business coalition.
And, you know, Walmart can force its Chinese suppliers to eat part of the cost of the tariff. But if you're a mom and pop store, you have no leverage over China. So I'm concerned about the small business pressure as much as I am about the price.
C. TODD: You know, it's not lost on me, though. You know, you know, Rand Paul and Ted Cruz have in common. They both ran against Donald Trump in 2016 and tried to, in part, try to make some of these arguments. And it didn't -- you know, this is a case where Donald Trump litigated this fight in the Republican primary and won. And this is part of it is a -- is a new coalition of folks that certainly are part of the Republican Party.
So, I think -- I think this doesn't break until voters prove it to these Republicans that this is toxic. And this is -- it's an interesting argument I thought Rand Paul was making and that, hey, if you don't do this now, you're going to help Democrats get back into power. And he made an argument earlier that -- and he's right. Right after Smoot-Hawley in the 1920s and '30s, essentially the Republican Party didn't get unified control of Congress for 60 years.
HUNT: So, you don't have to summarize it. We have it. Let's -- let's play it because it's a good, succinct kind of way of -- of outlining.
C. TODD: He's going to get hired at the Cook Political Report.
BEDINGFIELD: Potentially.
HUNT: Could -- could do for our elections. This is Rand Paul.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): Historically, tariffs have also led to political decimation, when McKinley most famously put tariffs on in 1890, they lost 50 percent of their seats in the next election. Smoot and Hawley put on their tariff in the early 1930s, we lost the House and the Senate for 60 years, so they're not only bad economically, they're bad politically.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Yeah.
MATTINGLY: I mean, the McKinley reference is particularly pointed because that's obviously somebody that the president talks about constantly. I think Scott Bessent said in an interview early on in the administration, when he knew he was actually in the running for treasury, he bought a bio of William McKinley. Larry Kudlow has said that Trump will text him pictures of William McKinley. That's what happened to William McKinley and the legislative majorities of his party in the next election that occurred.
HUNT: It's why we have --
MATTINGLY: History, yes.
HUNT: -- depth of knowledge about --
MATTINGLY: These are the things I pay attention to in interviews, that --
C. TODD: He's texting pictures of.
HUNT: It's great.
C. TODD: I'm sorry. I'm just sort of absorbing.
MATTINGLY: That's -- it's like a real thing.
C. TODD: He's not texting policy.
MATTINGLY: No, according to Larry Kudlow and Larry Kudlow -- I just want to say, though, that like Jim Cramer and some of the street guys, I have a little bit of understanding and not necessarily grasping where this was going. I have no sympathy for Republican senators or House members who didn't know and didn't ride the coattails on an agenda that was literally laid out, universal tariffs in June, sorry, in March of 2023, reciprocal tariffs in April of 2023.
The Republican platform that was laid out at a convention that they all signed on to, talks about both of these things. This is the platform. This is the policy. This is what they said they were going to do. If you're a member and you won, likely Trump helped you. That's part of why like you bought the ticket. Enjoy the ride.
C. TODD: So let me get this straight. Do you take him seriously or literally? Sorry.
(LAUGHTER)
C. TODD: I'm sorry. I don't mean to, like, throw, but it's -- it's the most --
B. TODD: It sounds familiar.
C. TODD: Here we go again.
BEDINGFIELD: Is this seriously or literally? I can't remember --
C. TODD: How many times are we going to go through this where Republicans have gone down this road since 2015? Well, he doesn't really mean it. Oh, he doesn't really mean it. Oh, he doesn't really mean it. And you're like, oh, maybe he meant it.
HUNT: Well, but he was president for four years and he didn't do it. And this seems to be the question for me in terms of the voters, again, the people that you're saying and that Senator Klobuchar was talking about as well, is, you know, I think a lot of those, especially swing voters maybe thought Trump won was it was okay. I did pretty well under that.
B. TODD: Well, he did do it on steel and aluminum. And then, Biden kept them in place when he got in. You know, the two --
HUNT: Well, those are the targeted tariffs that if somebody like a Jim Cramer is talking about, right? Like --
B. TODD: Well, if you ask Republican voters, they'll tell you they generally support tariffs to bring down the trade barriers of other countries. And they generally support any tool to bring back manufacturing to this country.
[16:40:02]
And I think, by the way, if the president uses these tariffs to bring down the tariffs of other countries, will -- it will trigger an economic expansion.
And today, we'll look like a great buying opportunity. I'm wearing bulls on my tie today. It's going to be a bull week right now. If you had bought the market --
C. TODD: But I didn't have a shirt on because I lost mine.
(LAUGHTER)
B. TODD: But when the market crashed in the pandemic, if you bought it, then, you bought it at $10,000. It's 10,000 on the -- on the nice. It's now 17. It's now 17.
It was the greatest buying opportunity. If -- if Donald Trump is able to leverage lower tariffs around the world, this will be a key economic expansion. If he's not, then Republicans will have real problems.
HUNT: Yeah.
MATTINGLY: I do think -- I think the '18, '19 tariffs with China, the China trade war, that was -- it was the most expansive trade war we'd seen in decades. People took the wrong lessons from that in terms of what they perceive this administration to do.
They believed that showed that there was not a lot of growth, that there was actually a hit on a microeconomic scale. When you looked at specific industries, obviously, the farmers needed a bailout to the tune of $21 billion. If you talk to Trump economic advisors, they look at that and say, what that told us is we could have gone bigger and we should have gone bigger. There was no significant inflation. In fact, there wasn't really any inflation in that period of time.
They believed the microeconomic analysis doesn't necessarily capture the macro effects that were happening right now. Am I going down a rabbit hole?
(LAUGHTER) MATTINGLY: I just think that, like, people need to understand that when they point, a lot of people look at that generally and say, that was the lesson, that maybe that's as far as they will go, or maybe that's too far. They touch the stove a little bit opposite. Opposite. What happened with the China trade war was actually the genesis of why we're here today.
HUNT: Really interesting.
All right. Coming up next here, Republican Congressman Tim Burchett of Tennessee will be here live in the arena. And we will ask him what he thinks about the president's tariff policy and what he's hearing from his constituents.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:46:15]
HUNT: All right. Welcome back.
President Trump's tariffs sending the markets plunging for the second straight day suffering historic losses. The ripple effects of the slide being felt on Main Street, too.
Take a look at the front page of "The Daily Times" in Blount County, Tennessee, summing it up with Wall Street shutters. And joining us now is the man who represents that area of the country, Republican Congressman Tim Burchett.
Congressman, thanks so much for being with us.
Is this good --
REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): Thank you.
HUNT: -- for your constituents?
BURCHETT: I think long term, it will, ma'am.
HUNT: I honestly do. I've -- I've surveyed some of my constituents. People in business, manufacturing and other places. And it's -- it's a mixed bag. You have things that that obviously we can't make in this country or like champagne, for instance. I'm not a drinker.
My buddy Thad Cox owns a liquor store, and he was talking to me about the thin margins. And real champagne, of course, is the grapes that are grown in an area of France. I have another friend who's in the boat manufacturing business, and they were -- we had been talking for weeks, ahead of time of all this, about him being able to get things from areas like resins and things. And it turns out that they were not affected by the tariffs.
So, it's a mixed bag. But I think everybody agrees that to get manufacturing back to Main Street, we -- there is going to be some tough times and I and I but I predict it'll be temporary. Youve already seen some -- some movement, Israel, Vietnam. You've seen some actually some positive talk out of Canada even about some -- some movement in our direction. So, I think it's an excellent negotiating tool.
HUNT: So you think that the president is in this to negotiate and cut deals? Not that he is going to follow through on his pledge, on his social media platform this morning, that he will not change any of his policies.
BURCHETT: Well, the deal is to do better for America, ma'am. I mean, Make America Great Again, that is his -- his motto and that motto, he's following through with this because this will allow Americans to have better jobs. It will allow us to be competitive because the real enemy of America in the past has been Congress.
We've cut these deals with the Chinese and others. You know, they're -- they're buying up our farmland near -- near our military bases. They're actually in our -- in some of our military bases. The commissaries, we allowed them. They've -- they've stolen trillions of dollars in technology. And we've allowed that.
And Congress has been pretty gutless, in my opinion, about going after them. And that's because the lobbying of -- of companies that would profit from it. And I think that is -- is very shortsighted for the working men and women of this country. And I think ultimately this is going to -- going to pay big dividends.
And if I had money on Monday morning, if I had any cash. But my daughter rides horses so I don't, I would be putting that in the stock market.
HUNT: Yeah, well, that's fair. Fair enough, on the horses.
Sir, is this Donald Trump's economy now?
BURCHETT: Well, I don't know that I'd call it that. Are you going to call it that --
HUNT: Really?
BURCHETT: -- when it turns around? I mean, you know, I haven't seen on CNN too many times that you all had a panel railing on Joe Biden when the average American -- well, average East Tennesseans was paying 600 more dollars a month out of pocket because of crazy deficit spending that we were doing and sending money overseas, borrowed money to do that.
(CROSSTALK)
HUNT: I've got a former Biden aide sitting next to me. You can't see her on camera, but she is definitely nodding that we in fact, she was in a number of tough situations where we talked plenty, plenty about -- about those issues.
BURCHETT: Ma'am, listen --
HUNT: But seriously, my question, my question stands. BURCHETT: Joe Biden was mentally incompetent and you all would --
never -- you would always deny that and you would talk over.
HUNT: We started on the economy.
[16:50:01]
That's --
BURCHETT: Everybody knows that.
HUNT: That's what we were focused on.
BURCHETT: The biggest cover up that's been done.
HUNT: But Donald Trump has been out there saying, you know, this was Biden's economy. This was so bad. Like, the eggs are so expensive because I haven't had a chance yet. And voters are willing to give new presidents the benefit of the doubt in those circumstances. You don't -- do you really not see yesterday as a line in the sand? Before he could argue it was Biden's and now he has to. Whatever happens, good or bad, own that?
BURCHETT: Well, I remember that. And I will say this, in the Biden administration, when it took a downturn, one day and you all just called it a correction and there was never really any mention of it. So, it's really a double standard. Yeah.
And everybody knew it was going to take a hit. But economists will tell you, you can -- if you can stack up a group that'll say no. And the other ones will say yes, that the market is not really a good indicator.
I noticed we haven't mentioned the -- the job growth thats -- that's happened. The so-called surprising new numbers. And I'm sure that that people will say that's just Joe Bidens economy that that Trump has inherited. But in fact, that is an indicator of where things are headed.
And I think things are headed to more manufactured in this country. You've seen major car manufacturers announce billion dollar investments in this country.
HUNT: All right.
BURCHETT: You've seen -- you've seen that across the board. And Tennessee, for instance, were booming and -- and we're the number one depository of U-Haul trucks and trailers if you -- and they're all leaving California and all the other border states to come here. So --
HUNT: All right.
BURCHETT: You know, I think that -- that's a good indicator.
HUNT: All right. Congressman Tim Burchett, very grateful to have you on the show, sir. Hope you come back. Thank you. BURCHETT: Thank you, ma'am. Bye-bye.
HUNT: All right. And we do need to get to some breaking news. This just in, the Supreme Court giving President Trump a big win.
CNN's Paula Reid joins us now.
Paula, we're apparently just learning about this in the last few minutes from the court. What's going on?
PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: So, this is significant because, as you said, this is really the first time that President Trump has gotten a win from the high court, since he came back to the White House and under -- has undertaken this expansive effort to reshape the federal government.
Now, here, the Supreme Court is allowing him to block $65 million in Department of Education grants meant for states to help with teacher shortages. These grants were allegedly targeted because they contain some DEI initiatives.
Now, I want to caveat while this is a win for the administration, it's sort of a lowercase w win because this is one of the lesser known challenges in this parade of cases that is heading to the Supreme Court related to things that Trump has done since he took office, there still outstanding questions about whether the Supreme Court will uphold his effort to do away with birthright citizenship or use war powers to facilitate deportations.
His lawyers have always told me, Kasie, they are confident that even if these policies are blocked at the lower court, that once these ideas, these questions got before that conservative supermajority, that they would prevail. But it's unclear that will be true. I will note in this case that Chief Justice John Roberts sided with the three liberal justices dissenting in this decision.
HUNT: Very interesting. All right, Paula Reid, for us there -- Paula, thank you.
Chuck, I actually want to talk for a second about what Tim Burchett was just saying there and this sort of big picture question of who owns the economy and whether this is a "you broke it, you bought it" situation or not for the president.
C. TODD: Oh, I think it's pretty obvious. It's -- it's all on his. I mean, you know, you use -- he sort of grabbed -- he now owns it quicker. He actually I think had more time if he had stretched this out a little bit that now by doing this, he's almost accelerated the timeline where it's his.
I remember covering Obama. I think he -- he went 18 months blaming, claiming he was still using Bush's economy.
HUNT: For a really long.
C. TODD: You can get away with it, especially if you win on those circumstances. And this is a -- I mean, again, Trump arguably won because of peoples sour view of this economy. So, in some ways, again, I go back just strategically how poorly executed this has been, because they could have come in here, responded to the economy with a tax cut and with the perception they're giving money back.
(CROSSTALK)
HUNT: -- guys together, very happy.
C. TODD: And then, in the fall, you start in on this after you've delivered some relief. Now they're in this flip and you know they're going to come up with some convoluted attempts at relief. I don't know how they do it.
HUNT: All right. Coming up, something totally different, turtle power? We'll explain.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:59:15]
HUNT: All right, welcome back.
Everyone who is one knows that being a parent is hard. Imagine becoming a parent, specifically a biological mother, for the first time when you are almost 100 years old.
I'm sorry. What? Yes. A very lucky Philadelphia mom, welcoming not one, but four new additions to her family. And here we go. Here they are, four perfectly healthy, critically endangered tortoises. Western Santa Gruz Galapagos tortoises, to be exact.
They hatched at the Philadelphia Zoo just four of about 3,400 left in the world. They are the first born at the zoo in more than 150 years. The new mom here she is, is known simply as mommy. She is estimated to be just shy of 100 years old.
Take a look at this. This is a newspaper photo from 1932. Thats when she arrived at the zoo as a young tortoise. So, if you've ever been to the zoo, she has most likely been there. The hatchlings, they each weigh less than a pound. They'll be up to 250 pounds when they're grown.
The team says they're still working on names. They might be all girls, but I still suggest Leonardo, Donatello, Michelangelo, Raphael. They're the newest celebrities.
Anyway, "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts right now.
