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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Police: 2 Children Killed, 14 Children & 3 Adults Hurt In School Shooting. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired August 27, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ARCHBISHOP BERNARD HEBDA, CATHOLIC ARCHDIOCESE OF SAINT PAUL AND MINNEAPOLIS: Already today, I've been receiving messages from all over our country, promising prayers. And I think it's the prayers of the feet as well, Principal. That is, for me, is a source of hope, just as we see families stepping forward to help those who have been impacted by this terrible tragedy.
[16:00:08]
Very grateful that Principal DeBoer spoke about prayer. Certainly, that -- the bell in a Catholic Church is always a call to prayer. And so, it's a reminder for us, for sure, to be praying. And we have to recognize that it's through prayer and through that prayer of the feet, through that action, that we can indeed make a difference. That has to be the source of our hope.
I was particularly pleased today to receive a message from Pope Leo. If you'd bear with me, I'd like to share that with you. It comes directly from Cardinal Pietro Parolin, who's the secretary of state, and it reads like this.
His holiness, Pope Leo XIV was profoundly saddened to learn of the loss of life and injuries following the shooting that took place at Annunciation Church in Minneapolis, and he sends his heartfelt condolences and the assurance of spiritual closeness to all those affected by this terrible tragedy, especially the families now grieving the loss of a child. While commending the souls of the deceased children to the love of Almighty God, his holiness prays for the wounded as well as the first responders, medical personnel, and clergy who are caring for them and their loved ones.
At this extremely difficult time, the Holy Father imparts to the Annunciation Catholic School community, the archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis, and the people of the greater twin cities metropolitan area, his apostolic blessing as a pledge of peace, fortitude and consolation in the Lord Jesus. My brothers and sisters, that gives me some hope. We know that the holy father, Pope Leo, did his hospital training right here in Minneapolis, so he knows our community, and he's been reminding anybody visiting from Minnesota that he spent some time here.
We're very grateful for his blessing. But I like those who have spoken before, ask that you would continue to think, look for those ways of supporting those who have been impacted today, not only with your prayers, but also with your action. Thank you.
And, Chief, I now turn this back to you for your questions.
O'HARA: Thank you, Archbishop.
As I mentioned, obviously, the investigation continues in its preliminary stages. I will take some questions now. And additionally, we will let you know when we can provide some updated information.
The question from Matt was how were the injured students doing? I believe all of them have their parents with them now. And they are all expected to survive. All of the remaining victims are expected to survive. There is a range of injuries, however.
REPORTER: Chief, you said the weapons were acquired legally.
O'HARA: Yes.
REPORTER: And where they were acquired?
O'HARA: I can tell you they were purchased recently.
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)
O'HARA: Okay, so the question was on a possible motive. And a relationship to the church or to the school. I cannot -- I have no information to share on a motive other than saying, again that there was some sort of manifesto that was timed to come out on YouTube. It's been taken down, and our investigators are going through that to try and develop a motive from that.
Additionally, there are these three search warrants happening in residential locations, and we may very well, you know, find more information or writings that could give some sense to that. But we don't have that now, and I cannot confirm a relationship between the suspect or his family and this church at this time. But that's obviously something we're looking very closely at.
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)
O'HARA: What was by the suspect? I'm sorry. Okay.
Yep. So the question was about the manifesto. We do believe it was by the suspect. Yes.
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)
O'HARA: Yep. So the question was about the suspect, and he had had a name change at some point in the past. I cannot confirm that other than confirming the identity, the name that I gave you, the age that is the suspect, that's the person that we believe has caused this.
REPORTER: Chief, you mentioned these videos posted on YouTube, seemingly scheduled to be posted right after the shooting. Is there anything that the suspect posted days prior, months prior, that could shed any light on her mindset?
[16:05:00]
O'HARA: Yep. So, the question was we mentioned that the YouTube videos were scheduled to be posted. Is there anything else in social media that may shed some light into this? We do not have information on that at this time that I'm able to share. However, our investigators and our law enforcement partners are definitely looking at that.
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)
O'HARA: So, the question was how many children and parishioners were in the church when this happened? This was towards the beginning of mass. So, some of the children were already filed into the church and were seated. Others were coming in. I've -- I've heard estimates, but we will -- we will release a more definitive number.
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)
O'HARA: Yep. Yep, yep. So question was resources for Minneapolis police due to the other challenges we've had the last 24 hours, obviously, this has been the most difficult. The dozens of officers that responded to the scene, many of them are deeply traumatized by what they saw as are obviously all of the children, all of the staff members Father Dennis, everyone who was at mass this morning.
So, obviously, that has been our number one priority is to care for the health and wellness of the officers that responded here. Additionally, obviously, we have responded to other challenging situations and other acts of violence. I can say in regard to the shooting that happened outside of the high school yesterday, we have arrested two people for assisting in that shooting. We have not gotten the shooter yet, but we believe we have two people under arrest that were present with the shooter when that happened. And we're making significant progress.
There was an additional arrest at a homicide last night that happened on the 2700 block of Third Avenue South. That person has not been booked specifically for being responsible for that murder, but we believe -- we believe that is the person who caused that. So -- no. No. Unfortunately not.
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)
O'HARA: Yeah. So, the question was where do we start to make sure this doesn't happen again? I don't have an answer for that at this time.
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)
O'HARA: So, the question is, is this an investigation into a hate crime against Catholics? We don't have a motive at this time. Obviously, we're open to any possibilities at all, but we don't have a motive or anything to suggest that.
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)
O'HARA: Yeah. So, the question is the concern for other churches, other schools around the metro? Unfortunately, this is something that our community has been dealing with for some time. You know, the threat of active shooters, the threat of hate crimes at houses of worship, unfortunately, is not something new here.
And of course, our -- our precinct inspectors, our crime prevention specialists are available to work with both houses of worship, churches and schools that do reach out to assist in any additional security measures or advice that we can -- we can offer them.
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)
O'HARA: In the twin cities. Yeah. From the question was, is this the first time that there's been attack of Catholics at mass in the twin cities area? The archbishop is unaware of any other attack.
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)
O'HARA: The question was, is it being investigated by the FBI -- well, the FBI is here with us and has been a part of this entire investigation, as well as the ATF, other law enforcement. It's being led right now by the Minneapolis police department. And we are looking at obviously any possibilities from wherever the evidence will lead us from what we recover. Absolutely.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you all again so much for your time today, for your support. Thank you.
Yes, I think there's probably two names you would like spelling for. It's Principal Matt DeBoer, D-E-B-O-E-R, David Edward Boy Ocean Edward Robert, and its Archbishop Bernard, B-E-R-N-A-R-D, Hebda, H-E-B-D-A. Hebda.
O'HARA: Okay. Yep, just a second. We do not have any further planned press conferences for today. The focus now switches to the healing process, which will include some vigils. Tonight, we're encouraging people to show support to those if any more information does become available that we think is important.
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: All right. We've been getting an update from officials in Minnesota following this morning's tragedy, that shooting at a Catholic School in Minneapolis.
Two children were killed, pronounced dead on the scene. Three adults, 14 other children were injured by gunfire. Those children, all between the ages of six and 15, six of them believed to still be in critical condition at this hour. And we did just hear that all of the injured survivors are expected to survive.
So, a little bit of relieving news here at this hour. I'm Kasie Hunt, you're watching CNN. We've been in live breaking news coverage all day on this.
We're going to continue our live coverage and analysis with our law enforcement experts.
Let's get started with CNN's senior crime and justice correspondent, Shimon Prokupecz.
Shimon, who has just arrived on the scene here. Shimon, obviously, just a devastating day for this community. What are you seeing? What are you hearing?
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: You know, Kasie, I'm really struck by just how quiet everything is here. I mean, it is so, so quiet that it almost speaks to probably the trauma that this community is experiencing is going to experience in the months and weeks and years ahead. And I'm struck also by -- there's an electronic billboard announcing the first day of school. And one of the things it says is a future filled with hope.
This was the sign that was welcoming many of the students. Many of the parents, to the first week of school. And obviously now that has all been shattered. All the hope possible for these families who are now going to have to deal with this. Those are just some of the things that -- I just got here. But I am so struck by what I'm seeing and what I'm feeling out here already.
As you said, you know, there is some good news here. There was a lot of concern over the other victims here. The police chief here saying they are now expected to survive. Sadly, two students were killed. Really, when you think about the nature of this, and by every account, at this point there appears to be some planning here by this shooter that he barricaded these doors, that he chose a specific spot, perhaps, where he can fire through a window hitting striking children who were praying in the pews of the church.
The church is -- I could see it. I could see it from where I'm standing. The school is behind me here, and there's a church just very close by, and it's probably how the children would get there. They would just walk from the school.
A couple of other notes on the investigation that the weapons a police chief there saying that they were lawfully purchased, they believe recently and also very significant that what they're calling a manifesto, these are writings, obviously, that were scheduled to be posted on YouTube. But, mean quick enough and pull that down.
And so, they are poring over those documents now. But the police chief here at this point saying that they don't have a motive, at least not anything they're willing to speak about just yet. They're doing search warrants. They're doing other investigations as they're trying to figure out exactly what happened here.
And I think there was a really -- another really interesting question at the press conference, because I've covered so many of these, and this is a question that's always asked, where do we start so this doesn't happen again? And I think every police chief in this country would like to get to that point where they could figure out how to prevent something like this from happening.
And I'm sure in the days ahead, we're going to learn a lot more about the shooter and about what was happening here.
[16:15:04]
But most importantly will be to learn about the victims and who they are and what this is going to do to this community. And so, this investigation obviously is going to keep going. We're seeing crime scene investigators here. For the law enforcement community, it's going to be tough to having to witness such a horrific event, having to deal with these children that they were encountering who were injured and that what that crime scene must look like.
And now, we wait to hear more. You know, another thing on the victims, I just want to say 17 injured about now. So, again, Kasie, I mean, such good news here to know that most of those victims that are in the hospital now are going to survive.
And we wait to hear more about exactly how things unfolded here. And the big question is going to be, why? Right. Certainly. That's something this community wants answered.
HUNT: Yeah. Shimon, I was struck by that, that question, too, when the police chief was asked, what do we do? And he said, I wrote it down. He said, quote, I don't have an answer for that at this time. And just really striking.
And, you know, Shimon, you alluded to this. You have covered too many of these. I mean, every single one of these children, every single time. It is too many.
And you have also kept in touch with many who have been affected by events like this. Can you tell us a little bit about what the families of the victims are facing and what the children, I mean, these were such young children, to see something like this happen in front of them.
What -- what's next for them?
PROKUPECZ: I think there's going to be a lot of questions of what could have been done to prevent this. By all accounts, right now, as far as we know, law enforcement reacted very quickly here. The school did everything they possibly could. The fact that the gunman had to go outside and start firing through the windows, I've not heard of a situation like this before. It's usually a gunman entering the school forcing their way in, perhaps getting inside.
You know, this community, they're going to have to stick together. They're going to have to get together. The families are going to have to rely on each other to try and get through this. The local leaders are going to have to provide as much support as possible. Answers, answers and transparency and making sure these families know everything.
Certainly, before we find out, certainly before anything is released, the families should know first. And that is something that authorities should consider. And just the level of trauma that is going to hit these people, the victims, the community, the teachers, law enforcement, everyone will be affected by this here, and they're going to need a lot of time and a lot of respect and a lot of patience to deal with, to give them the space that they need to try and process what happened here.
It's going to be really, really difficult for them. And I think that's an understatement. And it's very obvious. But they're going to want to know things. And I'm hoping they get those answers, at least to give them some peace in these very, very, very difficult moments. And it's going to be really, really, really hard for them.
HUNT: It absolutely is. And, Shimon, before I let you go, I know you have a lot of reporting to do because you just did arrive on that scene. Can you tell us a little bit about what we do know about these two beautiful children who we lost today?
PROKUPECZ: You know, Kasie, well, I don't know much at this point because like I said, I just I just got here, so I don't want to do them any kind of, you know, I don't want to speak about them because I just don't know much about them.
HUNT: You know, I just when I got here, I was able to listen to what the police chief said, and, I know this police chief a lot of credit here to him. And for being transparent and trying to put out as much information as possible. And I think that that is also an important part, part of this -- he's doing it. He's trying to get as much information out there as possible while being respectful to these families.
But this is a very different kind of situation in a way, because I'm still kind of as I'm processing, processing this, as I'm standing here, the idea that this shooter did this from the outside, I believe through stained glass window is you know, takes some thinking and take some planning. And I think that's going to be something that law enforcement wants to figure out.
And also, I say this in all of these situations, did someone know something about this shooter that perhaps, while they may have thought was weird or striking or concerning and they never reported it, that does happen in many of these situations.
[16:20:13]
I mean, he's a man in his -- he's in his 20s, right? So, there's going to be a lot of questions about that. And were along the way. Did things change? And that's going to be a big -- a big question also for law enforcement that they're going to want answered.
HUNT: Shimon, are we at the point? I mean, I know we've seen some parents held accountable in the past, obviously, this person wasn't a minor, but are we at the point where there is going to be a search to hold people who may have known something accountable? Is that the next frontier of this awful --
PROKUPECZ: I mean --
HUNT: -- narrative? PROKUPECZ: That is part of it, you know, did someone know something
and didn't report it? And then that person potentially could be investigated over what this person may have been telling folks, you know, this looks like there was some recent planning, perhaps with the purchase of the weapons recently. Clearly, this person would have some information about this location, but perhaps no, this location. The idea that you're barricading doors, you know exactly what you're doing.
And there was some -- some planning. It just seems so obvious. So. And the timing of this. Right. You think about, I believe the students were just getting ready right around 8:15, 8:30 in the morning. And this was sadly, just so perfectly timed for that.
So that involved some planning. And certainly, if anyone knew anything, that is something that law enforcement will investigate, will look into. We've seen that, in other cases, most recently in the Manhattan shooting on Park Avenue, there was an individual that was investigated for possibly helping the gunman. There purchase some of the parts of that weapon. And something like that.
So that will be a component of this, but it's too early to say, if we're heading in that -- in that direction.
HUNT: Yeah. Shimon, I'd like you to stand by for a second just because you've spoken a couple of times about the outside nature of this.
And I know our John Miller has been doing a lot of reporting around this and may be able to give some insight.
So, John, if you could just join our conversation here with Shimon, what does it say to you and what is your understanding and reporting about these two by fours that barricaded these doors? Is this something where the gunman expected to be able to get inside and couldn't? It saved these kids where it barricaded the doors in a way that made it more dangerous because they couldn't get out? I mean, what is your understanding of what happened here?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: My understanding is that those that those two by fours were placed through the door handles of two separate exits where children could have fled during the shooting. The theory is, and, you know, we don't have the gunman to interview about this, but the theory is that he wanted to create containment where his victims would be trapped within that location.
HUNT: So, he put the two by fours on the outside of these doors to trap them in there.
MILLER: That's correct. And that requires some planning and forethought. And we know from the manifesto that the chief described, and I can go into a little bit of that, I have wanted this for so long, I am not well, I am not right. I am a sad person, haunted by these things that do not go away. I know this is wrong, but I can't seem to stop myself. And he goes on to say this is his way of getting back at the world. But he doesn't get into getting back at the world for what exactly?
Now there's more of this to go through. In writing and in video, we know from the police that they are in the midst of those multiple search warrants at three residents where they are already recovering additional firearms beyond those that were used, in this attack. And we know that they are looking for those writings and, and other things.
But, you know, we had talked about who might have known who could have had a clue, what could be done where the -- where the chief of police and I know Brian O'Hara from Newark, New Jersey, when he was the police director there. He's been -- he's been in Minneapolis since 2022. He's not a stranger to tough cities with violent parts. And dealing with that.
But no one's ever really ready for this. And he said, I don't know the answer to that. One of the answers to that is this, which is the FBI, their behavioral analysis unit, their profilers, if you will, have worked on this for a long time since Columbine, think of kids, since Sandy Hook. Think of little kids since the covenant school shooting, little kids again in a religious setting.
And what they have found is that in most of these cases, there is what is called leakage. Hints are dropped, signals are given, clues are given, and think about this www.FBI.gov easy to remember, forward- slash, prevent. That's the whole thing.
There are pages of tools and materials at that website by bough about what to look for, how to recognize these behaviors. What are the precursor signs? And one striking thing is this quote, when you know something is wrong but you don't want to say it, talk to someone about it. Report it. Even if they're your friends, brother, family. Don't let that hold you back from doing the right thing.
A statement from a close friend of an active shooter that took a number of lives. We know people say, well, what if I'm wrong? I don't want to bring this forward. I don't want to get in trouble. My friend won't speak to me anymore if I go to the police and they offer alternatives, well go to the gym teacher, go to the guidance counselor. Go to that special history teacher who you know this person admires and get them to reach out and talk to them.
You may be able to prevent this from happening by reporting it, or you may be able to create an off ramp for a person who is destined to violence because there's nothing else in their view to go to. So, there are some answers. They're not the perfect answers. They may not be the right answers, but a lot of study has gone into creating these materials, and I urge people to want to think about that.
Go to that website, look at the tools, download them, print them, copy them.
HUNT: I know, it's a -- it's an excellent piece of advice there, John.
Shimon, before we let you go, I just love it. If you could weigh in on what John provided there, we did hear, of course, from the police chief there that they confirmed that this manifesto was, in fact, the work of the shooter in this -- in this case.
PROKUPECZ: Yeah. I think John is right. You know, for years now, the behavioral analysis unit of the FBI has been studying these. They come in to these situations. They did it in Uvalde. They've done it at in Buffalo. Another mass shooting that I covered. They come in, they study. They build profiles of the shooters.
And then they try to see, okay, well where did something go wrong? You know, one of the most difficult things in these cases, when you start learning about these shooters, is that someone did know something. Something was off. Someone had tried to purchase a weapon, you know, when they were under 18, someone was having these difficulties, may have been talking about it.
But time and time again, I mean, certainly what I have found and I think law enforcement has found is that it's very difficult for parents, for loved ones, for friends to turn their own people in, right? It's very hard and it's a very difficult decision. And we don't know if that's the case here.
Obviously, we should say that. But when there are signs, when there are things that are pointing towards someone being in distress and then they are going out and purchasing weapons, that should signal something to someone if they knew. We don't know that. So those are all the things that need to be need to be answered right now.
And of course, you know, all these details need to come out. So, the right you hope that maybe the more details that come out, it can help prevent something like this from happening again. But time and time again, after every shooting, they go in and they analyze, and they try to figure out.
But yet, this keeps happening and this is time and time again. There's -- you just feel for these communities and for these families because they really, truly feel like there is no way to stop this. I mean, he did not go inside the school to do this. This happened outside from outside, shooting through a window.
I mean, that is just unbelievable. The planning here to do that, there had to be some -- and I think that's going to be one of those things here that could change the way. Now, schools perhaps do security. Like, what do you do? Do you block off entire blocks and you don't let people on unless they're somehow associated with the school?
I don't know but they're going to have to figure that out because this, you know, it's just going to keep happening otherwise.
[16:30:03]
And I think so much frustration and so much sadness now and so much trauma that is going to occur here for this state, for this city and for these families.
HUNT: Yeah, indeed. All right. Shimon and John, please stand by for us.
I do want to bring in the Democratic senator from Minnesota, Tina Smith, to talk a little bit more about this.
And, Senator, we're very grateful to have you here.
And I know you have deep knowledge of Minneapolis. I'd like to talk about the community in just a moment. But let's first start with what Shimon was saying. Just there, which is this terrifying twist on how this shooter carried this out by barricading doors on the outside and then shooting in the windows.
Your reaction to everything we've learned about this horrible, horrible tragedy.
SEN. TINA SMITH (D-MN): Well, as you are saying, we are still just learning, putting all the pieces together. Situations like this are so chaotic and so just so tragic. And of course, this school is only a couple of miles from where Archie and I live in south Minneapolis.
So, I, you know, I know this neighborhood quite well. It is -- I just -- I can't stop thinking about all of the families and little kiddos that went off to school this morning. It's the first day of school, first week of school for many Minnesota kids and just what everybody is going through. Of course, first and foremost, the families of Annunciation Catholic School. It's just such a -- such a -- such a terrible tragedy today.
HUNT: Senator, tell us a little bit about the community that attends this church that sends their children to this school. It sounds like you know it well.
SMITH: Well, it's hard to not know somebody whose children or grandchildren or nieces or nephews go to this school. In fact, in April, earlier this year, a group of Annunciation students came to visit me on Capitol Hill.
So, it's a school that's very engaged in the community and very connected to the neighborhood. And whether your family, and your children go to Annunciation school or not in that neighborhood, I think it is very much a part of the community with a real sense of kind of connection and also, you know, activism.
I was listening earlier to what the principal of the school said he was talking about an African proverb, and he said when you pray, use your feet. And I think that that is very emblematic of so many Minneapolis communities. You put your faith into action by the by the things that you do to make the community a better place.
HUNT: Senator, one thing that is sort of inescapable here is how many more of these shootings we are seeing as the years go by and we can put up a graphic on the screen for our viewers at home that makes it pretty, unfortunately, very easy to see this trend, there's obviously an exception for the year 2020, which is, of course, the height of the pandemic, when a lot of kids weren't in school at all. That bottom line shows where we are just through the number of days of
this year. What does this say about our culture and where we are as a country?
SMITH: Well, we have more guns than we have people in the United States of America. We have over 400 million guns, and we have this toxic mix of hatred and violence that is then connected with guns. And though that pain and that violence is so too often playing out in schools, which should be the place where our little kiddos should be safest, where they should be the most comfortable and confident as they're -- as they're learning and as they're growing.
It is -- I think it is a terrible reflection. And I just -- my view of this in this moment is that we should look at the tipping point that we are at, and we have to all ask ourselves, are we going to continue to go down this road, or are we going to take a step back? The level of violence in this country is so unacceptable. And when dangerous, violent people have access to guns tragically, too often, this is -- this is what happens.
HUNT: Senator, what do you say to Americans, to Minnesotans, to your constituents who look around and see what's happened? They may remember Newtown in particular. I covered that when I was a reporter on Capitol Hill. I met many of those families and followed them from office to office of your colleagues as they pled with members of congress to do something and nothing happened after that.
What do you say to people who feel demoralized in this moment, like there is no, as the police chief said when he was asked directly, how do we prevent this? He said, quote, I don't have an answer for that at this time. What's your answer?
SMITH: So, I've been reflecting on this a lot today in my time in the United States senate. I have been, you know, constantly. I have fought for better, more common sense laws to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people. Even before I was in the Senate, when I was lieutenant governor and working at the state level. And it is so deeply frustrating and it is demoralizing to think that we haven't been able to make more progress.
I would just note that a couple of years ago after the terrible tragedy of Uvalde that my colleague Chris murphy and others worked in a bipartisan way to pass one of the most substantial pieces of legislation, the Safer Communities Act, that has been passed by congress in decades. And we would all -- I would say that we should have been able to do so much more.
But this was a step, and it not only made some important steps to make it harder for dangerous people to get access to guns, but it also was a massive investment in mental health care and school based care. Now, we don't know enough about this current situation to know whether any of that would have -- you know, any of that, how that's affected the outcome of what happened today.
But I will note that the Trump administration is, you know, today rolling back some of that bipartisan work, taking back some of those grants that were authorized by Congress, rolling back some of that school based care that we authorized and we paid for, and certainly we should be trying to move forward in this moment and not unrolling the progress that we've made.
HUNT: All right. Senator Tina Smith of Minnesota, thank you very much for your time today, for your insight into your community. And of course, our condolences and sympathies and thoughts and prayers are with all of your constituents today. I really appreciate it.
SMITH: Thank you.
HUNT: All right. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be back with much more breaking news on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:41:18]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WESTON HALSNE, 10-YEAR-OLD SHOOTING SURVIVOR: It was like shots fired and then we kind of, like, got under the pews. It kind of, they shot through the stained glass windows, I think. And it was really scary. My friend Victor, like, saved me, though, because he laid on top of me. But he got hit.
REPORTER: What do you want to say to your friend who helped protect you?
HALSNE: He's really brave, and I hope he's good in the hospital.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: That little boy, Weston Halsne. He's 10. He's in fifth grade at Annunciation Catholic School.
It was his first week of school this week. The friend who saved his life was one of 14 children who were injured. In addition, of course, to the two children who lost their lives today, three adults were also shot.
I want to bring in CNN chief medical correspondent and trauma neurosurgeon, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
Sanjay, you have talked about your own personal experience treating gunshot wounds. You said this, quote, it was a handgun injury. We were able to quickly control the bleeding, relieve the pressure on the brain. The patients spent one day in the ICU for observation and was discharged a few days later. Had it been a rifle injury, there was hardly any chance he would have survived.
Can you talk about what it's like to treat these kinds of injuries, and especially how much harder it is when they're children?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, I mean, obviously you can have really significant injuries with any firearm. But to draw some context between a high-powered weapon versus something that is a lower powered weapon, it's a -- it's a world of difference.
I mean, you know, I'm a neurosurgeon, so I'm taking care of injuries to the brain and to the spine, but anywhere on the body, when you're talking about a handgun, for example, the entrance wound and the exit wound may be around the same size. Most of the energy is sort of moving through the body, and it's hard to talk about, Kasie, in the wake of something like this, because it sounds so procedural. And, you know, it's just -- it's tough to imagine these types of injuries in the stories that you're showing on TV right now.
But with a high-powered rifle, a lot of the energy from the weapon is sort of its inside the body. So, you develop what's called a cavitation inside the body. There's a cavity and the exit wounds are much bigger than the entrance wounds, so it just causes a lot more damage.
And, you know, as far as kids versus adults, you know, kids are not just little adults. They have all sorts of different things about them, their physiology. But just in terms of size, when you talk about some of these high powered gunshot wounds, you can cause these cavities that can be several inches in size. So, if you're a much smaller body, that's obviously going to be a much bigger injury.
When you heard the emergency chief talking about this earlier, he said many different departments were involved with caring for these patients. You're talking about trauma surgeons and pediatric surgeons and neurosurgeons and orthopedic surgeons. Obviously, anesthesiologists. Theres all these different, you know, components of the body, the chest, the abdomen that can be impacted by these types of injuries.
So much more severe injury and even more so in children.
HUNT: Sanjay, we did hear at this news conference just a few minutes ago that thankfully the remaining injured victims are expected to survive. What does -- what does that tell you about the preparation of the hospital? The emergency room, and everyone who worked hard to save these kids.
GUPTA: Well, you know, it's pretty remarkable what these level one trauma centers can do. And it's a sad state of affairs that within the last 24 hours, they've had two of these types of mass casualty incidents at the same hospital.
[16:45:08]
You know, at the hospital where I work, we had a mass casualty incident on Saturday. You know, there was also the hundreds of rounds that were fired at the CDC a couple of weeks ago.
So, point being, Kasie, that sadly, in a way, there's a lot of preparation for these types of incidents. So, you get a call. My understanding was around 8:45 in the morning at that point, they're told that there's going to be a lot of patients coming in whatever operating rooms are sort of underway at that point.
They basically say, okay, finish this operation. Do not bring in other patients. Keep doors open. Mobilize blood, maybe even do an all call for blood in the community.
With the level one trauma center, many of these surgeons are in the hospital, so they're just sort of on standby, waiting. And that obviously can really facilitate the care of these patients very, very quickly.
They arrive, they get triaged in the emergency room. Many of them will get a scan, CT scan, typically very quickly. Some don't have time for that. They need to get to the operating room even faster than that, so they don't have time for a scan. And this just happens.
And you know, we're talking about this. But again, this exact same scenario that I'm describing happened less than 24 hours earlier. It's happening in major cities all across the country as many of your other guests have been talking about.
HUNT: Tragically so. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks very much for your bringing your expertise to us today. I really appreciate it.
GUPTA: Thank you.
HUNT: All right. Let's bring back our law enforcement panel. CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller. We also have with us former senior FBI official and active shooter expert Katherine Schweit, and CNN senior law enforcement analyst Andrew McCabe.
And, Katherine, I do want to start with you. We -- with the senator put up a graphic that illustrates pretty starkly, the number of shootings that happen in this country, in schools and how that has accelerated in recent years. The only exception being in 2020.
I know that you, you know, were part of the creation of the program inside the FBI to work on this. When you see what happened today what do we know now that we didn't know back when this started? And what can you tell us, if anything, to answer that question that the chief of police couldn't answer when he was asked, how do we begin to try to stop this from happening again? And he said, I don't have an answer for you right now.
KATHERINE SCHWEIT, FORMER SENIOR FBI OFFICIAL: I think part of the answer is we have we have better information now. You know, years ago, we really didn't have a lot of information. We weren't catching. We weren't counting numbers. We weren't looking at firearms violence because we were prohibited -- they were prohibited from doing it by the Dickey Amendment of one of the omnibus bills that was passed.
And we put a halt, kind of on looking at how about firearms violence or death by firearm, and that included schools. And also, in addition, the numbers are I think the numbers are increasing because the reporting is increasing. So I don't think it's just a numbers 1 to 1 situation. But when you look at what can we do now and what are we better at doing now, we have threat assessment requirements in states where we know specifically for schools that we want to see people report things like withdrawal, lack of interest in their work or in their school, changes in their clothing, changes in their behavior, acquiring weapons, fascination with other shootings.
But you know what that doesn't catch? That doesn't catch the high school kids who graduate, that doesn't catch the 20 some year olds who are having trouble fitting in in society, and they're beginning to fall away. This person attended that school, attended that school. He attended that school. And still, you know, he had family that worked there. And still he had the situation where he was looking for a way to lash out.
And he escalated his violence to this point. But it wasn't something that just happened -- happened all of a sudden. So, we all have to be way better at looking for the signs. And we have that list of signs. We're just not thinking it's going to happen in our neighborhood.
HUNT: Andrew McCabe if I could just get you to weigh in on that, as well as, you know that that that sign of being interested in focused on other shooting incidents, that sort of chilling new detail we have of this one where the shooter came from outside the building and that potentially being something that's now going to be replicated. What are your concerns here going forward?
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I think Kate's absolutely right. We are better informed now as a community, as a law enforcement and policy community on the commonalities across these different, disastrous incidents. And we're -- we are well- informed enough to know that there are some warning signs, if you will that many mass shooters and school shooters share.
[16:50:04]
That's one of the things that you just mentioned, this interest in other shootings and kind of pulling back from interaction with other people, people who have been the victims of kind of, you know, social outcasts, bullying, things like that.
The problem is, it's very hard to know when those things are happening in someone's life, unless they kind of leak signals of that out to the people around them, their families, their fellow students or teachers, things like that. And then you're still dependent on one of those individuals who picked up on the who knew what these signs were picked up on the fact that this person was exhibiting them and then had the wherewithal to actually reach out to someone, reach out to the medical community or law enforcement community and, let folks know what's going on.
So, yes, we're better at it, but there's still a lot of hurdles in the way. In the meantime, one of the one of the most obvious things about these shooters is they all have basically unfettered access to very lethal weapons, high powered rifles, just along the lines of what Sanjay was talking about a few minutes ago. So that's the part of this equation that we cannot seem as a society to get ourselves together around, even though almost all polling on these questions indicates a large majority of Americans approve of common sense, gun reforms, regulations to make gun ownership more safe.
Nobody's saying repeal guns or change the Second Amendment. But to be more thoughtful and effective about how -- about that patchwork of laws that we currently have that tries to make gun ownership safe and to make guns less available to young people who are suffering from mental distress and things of that nature.
None of these shooters, none of these school shooters had the AR-15 in their -- in their hands for ten years before they showed up at school and started killing people. Most of them, if you look back over the data, have acquired these weapons, if not immediately before the act, then in some time within a year or so before that, I mean, by definition, many of them are young and they can't buy guns before that time anyway. So why are we not looking more closely at that population and thinking about whether or not it's a good idea to let any of -- anyone basically walk in and buy an AR-15 off the street. So, I don't know. Those are unpopular suggestions, but I think you have to bring it up every time we have another one of these horrible accidents or horrible attacks.
HUNT: Horrible indeed.
Katherine, there's one other thing I wanted to ask you about, which is there seems to be a little bit of a discrepancy. And then I want to ask John Miller about this as well before we wrap up.
But, Katherine, first to you, between the FBI Director Kash Patel, who has written on the platform X that this is being investigated by the FBI as a hate crime against Catholics and the current police chief, telling reporters earlier this hour that there's no known motive at this time.
And what does it tell you? And do you think it should be investigated as a hate crime?
SCHWEIT: Well, hate crimes have the facts come out. Crime is not where we pick out a crime, and then we decide how to chart -- we decide how to gather the facts, to charge it as Andy would know, and has probably said a million times, as a former deputy director and director of the FBI, the facts lead you to the charges that you can charge.
For instance, domestic terrorism, there is no federal domestic terrorism charge. And in fact, there is no state terrorism charge in Minnesota. But there is, for instance, in the state of Michigan, which is why the shooter at the high school there was charged with domestic terrorism and pled guilty to it. So, I think that the question of what the charges are is something that we want to talk about. But I think that the facts have to lead to that.
And it's not the essence of taking in this case, a kid who probably sat in the pew at that church when he went to school there and saying, oh, for some reason he has some particular bent against Catholics or against Christians. You would have to be some push together -- gathering together effects that would really kind of indicate that this entire intent of this crime was to injure this particular people, of this particular religion, just much like we see the shooter in the top shooting in Buffalo, who went there, a white man who went there to shoot blacks and made it very clear that that's why he was going there.
So, hate crimes can come in many, unfortunately many colors and flavors. But the facts will have to lead us to whether or not this -- there is some particular hate crime and whether that would be applied in state or federal court.
HUNT: John Miller, what do you make of this discrepancy?
[16:55:01]
MILLER: You know, Kasie, it's a bit of a -- it's a bit of a moot point. You can investigate it as anything.
HUNT: Right.
MILLER: But as Katie said, the facts are going to lead you where they lead you and you don't have a suspect here because he's dead. So, some of this is posturing. But if you look at the videos that that were posted and taken down, you know, like the shooter in New Zealand, like the shooter at the Top Supermarket in Buffalo, he has written slogans over the magazines and the guns. Where is your god now? This is for the children, and a number of other things indicating hate for all kinds of different reasons.
This seems like somebody who was filled with hate, not just for Catholics, but for everybody, including little children.
HUNT: All right. John Miller, Katherine Schweit, Andrew McCabe, thank you very much for being with us today. I really appreciate all the time you spent with us.
MILLER: All right. We do want to wrap up today with Tony Montalto. He is the president of Stand with Parkland, and he lost his 14-year-old daughter, Gina, at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in 2019.
Tony, I want to thank you very much for spending a few minutes with us here.
I just want to start with the parents of these two beautiful kids that we lost today. Tell us a little bit about what you would say to them in what has to be one of their, if not their darkest moment.
TONY MONTALTO, 14 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER GINA MONTALTO KILLED IN PARKLAND SHOOTING: Well, I'd say that were here to support you. However, they may not be ready to hear that. Every parent who suffers the unimaginable tragedy of having a child killed at school, you know, were not always ready to hear what people have to say right away.
So, I would say breathe. Take your time and accept the help from your family and friends when you can, because you definitely need it.
Sadly, my family knows all too well the pain that they're feeling now and the pain that's going to continue in their lives. We know that there are days upcoming are filled with unbelievable events for normal people such as picking out a casket for your child, finding someplace to bury your child. These are terrible things that no family should have to deal with. And I'll just remind everyone that the Parkland shooting was in 2018, on Valentine's Day.
HUNT: Yeah. Valentine's Day indeed.
Tony, can you talk a little bit about what the grief journey is like for these families? And I know you, of course, have channeled some of this into activism. What has that felt like for you and what might when we when these families have some a little bit of distance, what might that look like for them?
MONTALTO: Well, the first step they have to do is, is take care of themselves. Any remaining children that they have should they choose the path of some kind of activism or joining a group for some kind of change? You know, it has been helpful to me and some of the other families of Stand with Parkland as we've turned our unfathomable grief into purpose. And we've been able to work with people on both sides of the aisle to see real change.
We worked with both the first Trump administration and with the Biden administration, and we're hopeful to continue working with this current Trump administration to make our schools safer. And there are things that can be done that do that.
HUNT: We heard from the mayor of Minneapolis earlier today. I want to play a little bit of what he said because it's clearly resonating with some people here. Let's watch it and we'll talk about it on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR JACOB FREY (D), MINNEAPOLIS: And don't just say, this is about thoughts and prayers right now. These kids were literally praying. It was the first week of school. They were in a church.
These are kids that should be learning with their friends. They should be playing on the playground. They should be able to go to school or church in peace without the fear or risk of violence. And their parents should have the same kind of assurance.
These are the sort of basic assurances that every family should have every step of the day, regardless of where they are in our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: We have about 30 seconds here. But he said these kids were literally praying. What was your reaction?
MONTALTO: Well, sadly, it's true. I think people need to remember that tragedies like this can happen anywhere. We all need to come together. Democrats, Republicans, independents. We all need to come together and demand change.
There are things that the president could do through executive orders, such as mandating, behavioral threat assessment teams at each school that receives federal dollars. There are things in congress such as the MSD Act to -- that we support to have, a panel look at how to secure classroom doors and provide dollars to have that done.
There's the Eagles Act, which would allow the U.S. Secret Service to continue their research into preventing school violence, as well as go out and help our communities understand how to do proper behavioral threat assessments and management.
HUNT: Tony Montalto, very grateful to have your perspective on the show today, sir. Although, of course, a terrible day for everyone here.
CNN's breaking news coverage continues right now, Jake Tapper and "THE LEAD".
