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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Epstein Survivors: Release The Files; Trump Suggests Sending National Guard To New Orleans; Xi, Putin & Kim Stand United At Chinese Military Parade; Judge: Trump Unlawfully Blocked $2 Billion From Harvard. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired September 03, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:00]
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Bad idea. That 7-year-old boy you just saw there. won $100 top prize and bigfoot bragging rights. The foundation also has big plans for its first mid-October. So, if you're free, mid- October. So if you're free, sounds like a party.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: I know that was funny, but they all sounded really good.
SANCHEZ: They put some work into it.
KEILAR: They put a lot of thought into it.
SANCHEZ: Yeah, yeah, there was one guy that had a little Chewbacca in there, which for some reason I feel like is appropriate for bigfoot.
KEILAR: Totally agree.
SANCHEZ: What was that picture of bigfoot? That was -- that was a bit too sensual?
KEILAR: THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now.
(MUSIC)
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's wonderful to have you with us on this Wednesday.
As we come on the air, we are grappling with an extraordinary moment, not just in American politics, but in our American life. A group of women, girls when they were abused, pleading with their government for justice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The days of sweeping this under the rug are over.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We matter now. We are here today and we are speaking and we are not going to stop speaking.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please recognize how important it is for transparency relating to Jeffrey Epstein.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are requesting transparency and I am requesting every congressman and woman that goes against this bill be outed. I want to know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Women who survived abuse at the hands of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell here in Washington today, many of them speaking for the first time in public, telling their stories of lives torn apart. Most starting when they were young teenagers.
They are pressing lawmakers to act and support a move that would force the White House to release files related to Epstein. In their telling, the failure of the Trump administration to do it so far is one of protecting the powerful at the expense of the vulnerable, because they say they know who the powerful abusers are.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LISA PHILLIPS, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: We know the names. Many of us were abused by them. Now together as survivors, we will confidentially compile the names we all know who regularly -- and who were regularly in the Epstein world, and it will be done by survivors and for survivors. No one else is involved.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Now, standing behind these women, talking before they talked, a trio of lawmakers that I'm not sure I would ever -- I thought I would ever see standing in the same camera frame.
That is Republican Marjorie Taylor Greene. She probably needs no introduction. Safe to say, she was MAGA before MAGA was MAGA and is one of the most MAGA of the MAGA.
Then there's Democrat Ro Khanna there in the middle, a staunch progressive, someone who co-chaired Bernie Sanders presidential campaign.
And libertarian, contrarian Republican Thomas Massie, who is the lawmaker leading this pressure campaign to get President Trump to release the files and all of them were standing with women who were pleading directly with the president to tell the world the truth about the people who hurt them.
So, what did the president do? What did President Donald J. Trump, someone who himself spent time with Jeffrey Epstein? What did the president do in response to their pleas?
This is how it played out today. That news conference on Capitol Hill, just about 25 minutes before President Trump, noted regular viewer of TV news, spoke to reporters in the Oval Office.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would like Donald J. Trump in every person in America and around the world to humanize us, to see us for who we are and to hear us for what we have to say. There is no hoax.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So this is a Democrat hoax that never ends.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Listen to us. This is not a hoax.
TRUMP: It's really a Democrat hoax.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are tired of looking at the news and seeing Jeffrey Epsteins name and saying that this is a hoax.
TRUMP: We're having the most successful eight months of any president ever. And that's what I want to talk about. That's what we should be talking about, not the Epstein hoax.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Hoax. They said, don't call it a hoax. It's not a hoax. Here we are. Here we are asking you for something, and we are not a hoax.
The president, just minutes later, literally says it's a hoax.
All right. Let's get off the sidelines, go into THE ARENA.
My panel is here. CNN legal analyst Elliot Williams, CNN anchor and chief political correspondent, Dana Bash, CNN chief political analyst David Axelrod, and CNN political commentator, Republican strategist Brad Todd.
Welcome to all of you. Thank you very much for being here.
Dana, let me start with you just because I was so struck by all the ways in which this is so different from anything we normally see here in Washington, those three lawmakers standing together, the pleas of these women and a president who was more than willing to let his supporters, who said throughout the campaign that they wanted these files released he was willing to take -- take that on during the campaign and say that that we should do that now, faced with the prospect of being able to do it, he is saying no directly to those women's faces.
[16:05:11]
What do you make of it?
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That the significance just politically, and then I'll get to the -- to the survivors, which is the most important thing here. But politically, what Donald Trump has been able to do since he was inaugurated for the second time has been to control the conversation, the narrative for his base and even beyond that, in many ways, this is something he can't get a handle on. He cannot figure out how to quash it. You heard in his Oval Office Q&A that he did with reporters when he
was with the Polish president. He's tried to, you know, throw this red ball over here about crime. Throw that red ball over here about, you know, pick your issue that he feels is the economy, that is the one that he wants people to be talking about.
It's just not going to happen when you have these women en masse, having not just speaking and speaking out, but doing so in such -- with such eloquence and with such emotion and so many people who again, as you said, got him elected, did so because they believed the conspiracies that he and others were pushing about, you know, big powerful figures silencing them.
HUNT: Well, I mean, David Axelrod, from a -- I just -- from a purely political calculation perspective, this seems to go directly in the face of what Donald Trump's own voters desperately want from him. And those -- these women are so incredibly sympathetic.
DAVID AXELROD, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah. Yeah. Well, listen, I think this underscores a reality, which is Donald Trump is his greatest asset and his own worst enemy. You know, he -- his force of personality and his will and his salesmanship has gotten him to where it is. But in this case, it's -- the things he's doing are actually inflaming the story and prolonging the story.
He rode this thing and his supporters did throughout a campaign and then it came to the critical moment of releasing these records. And all of a sudden, the attorney general does a 180, obviously at his insistence. And then he compounds it by sending his personal lawyer who's the deputy attorney general down to Florida, and interviews her for two days, Ghislaine Maxwell, and then suddenly, this heinous sex predator -- which is what she is, she groomed them, she recruited them, and she participated -- is now transferred to a club fed, a prison camp where sexual predators never go.
So -- and now this group of incredibly compelling women speak. And his answer is, this is a hoax.
And it's plainly not a hoax. Jeffrey Epstein was a sexual predator. She was convicted, and he is trying to dismiss it all as a fantasy. And this is one thing he cannot spin.
HUNT: Brad Todd -- I mean, to that point, it seems like -- and I think -- I think part of why there are so many people out there who don't understand why it is that Donald Trump isn't just putting the files out there if he doesn't have something to hide, because if he doesn't, you know, put the files out there.
There was one victim today, one survivor, Chauntae Davies is her name. She said that Epstein bragged about the president. Let's watch that moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHAUNTAE DAVIES, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: Jeffrey and Ghislaine were always very boastful about their friends, their famous or powerful friends. And his biggest brag forever was that he was very good friends with Donald Trump. He had an eight by ten framed picture of him on his desk with the two of them, like they were very close.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: You know, your -- your day job is electing Republicans. What is your advice to President Trump in the face of all of this?
BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, one of the cardinal rules of politics is never get in a fight with someone who's a victim of a sexual abuse crime. It's --
HUNT: I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone put it quite that way but that makes a lot of sense.
TODD: It's pretty high up on the list of things, you know, and you can do it. People make that mistake. Believe me, I learned that the hard way when I was a young political operative. So, I think that that's the thing the White House is going to be very mindful of.
When this was fighting with Democrats. And by the way, Robert Garcia, the ranking Democrat on the oversight committee, has no credibility on this because he never asked the Democrat Department of Justice for what he's asking this Department of Justice
Thomas Massie also has no credibility in this administration. If he's for it, usually it's often a bad idea.
But these victims are going to be change the game on this, in my view, and I think they will change the political physics of how the Department of Justice reacts.
[16:10:08]
The chairman of the oversight committee in the house is James Comer from Kentucky. He's what I would call a members' chairman. Right? He is an upstanding public servant who will follow the will of where the members of his committee take it. And there are Republicans on his committee who are pretty, pretty feel strongly about releasing more information.
And I think Comer will do that. I think he will do it in a pretty orderly way. It's not going to be done in one news cycle, but I think that's what's going to happen.
HUNT: So speaking of trying to figure out how Congress may get more of this into the public domain, Congressman Thomas Massie is leading what is called a discharge petition. He needs 218 lawmakers to force a vote functionally on this.
Now, this morning, a White House official told CNN that anyone that supports this effort would be seen as a, quote -- if they do sign on, that would be a, quote, hostile act toward this administration.
Now, let's bring in chief congressional correspondent Manu Raju, who's been with us through this conversation. Manu, bring us up to speed on the status of this discharge petition
that could force this issue. And I also know you spoke with Marjorie Taylor Greene today, who I think what she had to say to you plays right into what Brad Todd was just saying about how this may change the calculus -- could change the calculus for the White House.
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Look, she made very clear that she is pressing forward despite those threats coming from the White House. In fact, she spoke with Donald Trump himself this morning, urged him to actually have an Oval Office meeting with the victims in and actually talk to them directly about the harrowing stories that we all heard publicly aired out today.
But she indicated she has not gotten a response to that request.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): And this isn't a hostile act towards the administration. The hostile act has been against these women for so many years now. I look forward to talking with President Trump about -- about these women that I've met. I also encouraged him already this morning that he should have these women in the Oval Office. They deserve to be there.
RAJU: You spoke to him?
GREENE: Yes, I did, and I told him I'd be happy to set that up, arranging with their attorney by sharing his phone number.
RAJU: What was his reaction to that?
GREENE: I haven't gotten an answer back on that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: And the question is ultimately going to be whether or not the Republicans who are facing withering pressure and criticism over their handling of this, will decide to side with Donald Trump or side with the victims. And Thomas Massie who are all calling for the passage of this bipartisan bill. They need 218 signatures in the full house in order to get this vote to come to the floor of the United States house.
As you can see on your screen there, four Republicans so far have signed on, including Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene. But they need six total to do that. And, Kasie, there are roughly about 12 or 13 Republican members who actually co-sponsored Massie's bill. But they have yet to sign on to this -- this effort to force a vote. And I've talked to most of those members, and many of them simply say they are not planning on signing onto this yet for a variety of reasons, one of which is some are satisfied with the information that was released just yesterday by the House Oversight Committee, even though Massie and others say that that information that had come from the Justice Department is essentially public -- in the public domain already. Nevertheless, it's unclear at this moment, Kasie, if it does in fact move the dial and get Republicans to sign on and force this vote, because the White House and Speaker Johnson are lobbying hard to deny that vote from ever happening.
HUNT: Yeah, really interesting.
Manu, thanks very much for that.
Brad Todd, you've been itching to get in and I want to go to you.
TODD: Well, what she's talking about is about the discharge petition. It is a mechanism to force a bill onto the floor against the will of the leadership. It is a cardinal sin in legislative bodies around America to sign on to a discharge petition in defiance --
HUNT: I assume you mean around -- around the world or you mean the state as well?
TODD: Yes.
HUNT: Okay.
TODD: Yeah. The -- you don't defy the leadership's right to control what hits the floor. And there are a lot of consequences to that. And there are a lot of members who want to see more information on this, who will not sign on to a discharge petition.
AXELROD: Well, yeah. Sorry --
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I was going to say I love not being the person who's deepest in the weeds on the panel for once, because the body --
TODD: Jealous, you know --
WILLIAMS: I'm so jealous right now.
AXELROD: I think he just insulted him.
WILLIAMS: But the body that needs to act on this right now is Congress for a big reason. The Justice Department is very limited in what they can do no matter what information comes out here, it's hard to see how someone else could be charged with a crime for acts that happened many, many years ago. Many of them would have had five-year statutes of limitations. They can't --
BASH: They can't just release it?
WILLIAMS: Well, they could release it. What's going to happen? Like what comes of it? Are more people going to be charged with crimes?
No. What needs to happen is Congress --
HUNT: Public accountability --
WILLIAMS: Public accountability is the thing.
AXELROD: How many times -- and Brad can maybe answer this -- how many times can Republican members be forced to walk the plank and choose between Donald Trump and what's in the interest of their majority?
[16:15:12]
You know, we -- the president is doing everything he can to try and influence the outcome of this midterm election through structural changes, because he's worried, as he should be, about these midterms. I don't think they want this on the floor because then these Republicans are going to have to vote on it. And they don't want to have to go back to their constituents and say, we chose Donald Trump over our pledge to disclose what happened to these victims.
WILLIAMS: Against victims.
TODD: Well, they want to be talking about immigration and crime in places where the American public --
AXELROD: Well, then they ought to get it off the plate.
HUNT: Want a quick last word?
BASH: I was going to go really deep in the weeds, but I'm going to let you go. We'll talk about it in the break about the numbers. Oh, okay. I'll just say it --
HUNT: You can't tease them like that.
BASH: All right. Fine, fine, fine. There are -- there are -- I mean, I know your viewers love this. There are open seats that are likely to be filled by De -- that will be filled by Democrats because of deaths on the Democratic side, that could change the calculus later in the month when they're actually seated. That could change the numbers when it comes to the discharge petition.
AXELROD: That's not that weed.
BASH: And that is not that far in the weeds.
HUNT: Really?
BASH: Basically, no. Absolutely not.
HUNT: All right. Coming up next here --
BASH: Let's try harder.
HUNT: Long victim rights attorney Gloria Allred is here in Washington. She's going to be here, live in THE ARENA.
Also this hour, the world leader that President Trump says he's talking to in the next few days ahead of his deadline for Vladimir Putin to end the war in Ukraine.
Plus, that new city in a red state that might be the president's next target, as he prepares to order the National Guard into Chicago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We'll straighten that out in about two weeks. It will take us two weeks, easier than D.C.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:21:20]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fourteen to 17 years old. I went and worked for Jeffrey.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was 16 years old.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was only 14 years old.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was a 16-year-old.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was only 14 years old when I was introduced to Jeffrey Epstein by a 13-year-old friend of mine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Victims of Jeffrey Epstein on Capitol Hill this morning, bravely recounting their abuse at the hands of the disgraced financier and his accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell, and urging lawmakers to fully release the Epstein files.
Just minutes after that, President Trump, sitting in the Oval Office, called the push to release all the documents relating to the Epstein files a, quote, Democrat hoax that never ends.
Joining us now is Gloria Allred. She's a longtime victims' rights attorney. She's represented 27 survivors of Jeffrey Epstein and some alleged victims of Ghislaine Maxwell.
Gloria, thank you very much for being here.
GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS' RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Thanks for inviting me.
HUNT: You have seen, unfortunately, so many women in this kind of a position with powerful men. This has been going on for years. You have been involved with it for years. And yet it seems like there is something about it that is changing right now. What those women did today.
ALLRED: I agree with you, Kasie. And I spoke at the rally at the end., the pre-rally, to the other rally. And there were many victims, survivors there.
And so, I think the change that you're keynoting here, that you're focusing on is, you know, the first stage is being a victim, then becoming a survivor. And then I say the last stage, the highest stage is a fighter for change.
So, I see a lot of the victims evolving to that third stage, fighting for change. In other words, they've told their story. I think the public has clearly said in all the all the polls, Democratic, Republican and the independent polls, they want the files to be released. And the victims are willing to fight for it.
They have been delayed justice so many times. They were delayed at what my client Alicia Arden filed the first document, a police report, in 1997, alleging inappropriate conduct by Jeffrey Epstein. And then after that, in Florida, we know what happened with Alex Acosta, the U.S. attorney for southern district of Florida. And somehow, sweetheart deal was made without consulting many of the victims.
And Jeffrey Epstein ended up being able to serve his 13 months by going to his office every day and just sleeping in the jail at night. That's outrageous.
And then, of course, in New York, when Jeffrey Epstein died, either whether it's suicide or homicide right now, they were delayed -- they were denied justice because there was no trial. They didn't get to confront him, the sexual predator in a court of law. They were denied justice then.
So, what about some element, some measure of justice right now? And that is what Congress can help do. They'd like to know the truth. They know their own truth. They don't know the whole picture. And we need to find out from the release of all the files, not having it cherrypicked, not having certain names redacted that are not the victims.
They want the truth, the whole truth. Nothing but the truth. I think that's fair for them to want that they have to fight for it. We -- I think we as victims attorneys are tired of victims being patted on the head in a paternalistic way by certain elected officials. Oh, we're so sorry. What is there -- what can we do?
Okay, there's something they can do. They can do it now. They should have done it yesterday. Thats what they're seeking. And that's what they have to fight for, because no one's going to give it to them if they don't fight for it.
[16:25:03]
HUNT: Fighting for it, obviously -- you're taking on a risk, right? Going out in public. And one of the survivors today talked about how she feels intimidated that she was threatened. I want to play that, and we'll talk about it. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANOUSKA DE GEORGIOU, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: I have been threatened. I was threatened by phone. My daughter was threatened. I have been followed. I have been stalked. I have been followed not only by journalists, but by people who do not
get out of the car and do not try and talk to me and just drive behind me as I drive my daughter to school. So, the fear is very real for us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: What does what the president did today in the face of this, from the victims where he said it's all a hoax? What does that do in terms of ratcheting up the potential for threats?
ALLRED: Well, it's salt in the wound that they already have, the trauma they've experienced from the initial victimization. Now they're being victimized again.
The -- really name-calling is not going to be a substitute for release of the files. All the files, not just the ones that someone higher up says, okay, these are okay to release all of them. And so but I'm focused not on what the men do, frankly, but what the victims are going to do, the survivors, the fighters for change.
We have to make this happen. It can't just be a press conference and then it goes away. It has to be a constant drumbeat. I think people all over the country can help. There are so many people all over the country who have been victimized by child sexual abuse when they were children, they never got any justice.
Now they want to help the Epstein victims and survivors. They want to help those who were victims of Ms. Maxwell. And this is their opportunity to do it by letting their elected officials know they're going to make the elected officials accountable if they don't make any third parties who are -- whose names are in these files accountable.
So this has to be power to the people, so to speak, to make these elected officials do what the right thing is. And I think the elected officials know it's just that, you know, there may be others telling them that maybe politically they shouldn't do it. They'd have to pay a price.
What you just showed is a victim paying the price for speaking out. You know what? If the elected officials don't do the right thing, they should pay a price. The price should be they're not going to get elected next time.
HUNT: All right. Gloria Allred, thank you very much for spending some time with us today.
ALLRED: Thank you.
HUNT: Appreciate it. Come back soon.
All right. Coming up next here. New comments. Just coming in from the Vice President giving an update on how quickly or not the president could order national guard troops into Chicago.
Plus, what Chinas unveiling as part of a very public, very flashy show of solidarity among three of America's biggest adversaries. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I was -- I was watching, and I was watching. My relationship with all of them is very good. We're going to find out how good it is over the next week or two.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:32:31]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We're making a determination now. Do we go to Chicago or do we go to a place like New Orleans, where we have a great governor, Jeff Landry, who wants us to come in? We're going to be going to maybe Louisiana. And you have New Orleans, which has a crime problem. We'll straighten that out in about two weeks. It'll take us two weeks easier than D.C.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Easier than D.C. in that two-week time frame. It's very familiar for some reason. I wonder why. It's usually the time frame.
So, President Trump, we know, has been very happy with how he has used the National Guard and how that's gone here in Washington, D.C. That was today, him wondering aloud about whether he should send the National Guard to New Orleans. Now, he already vowed this week to send troops into Chicago.
Big difference between these cities. Washington, D.C. is not a state. There is no governor. Illinois leaders, okay, are all Democrats. They have signaled that they're going to push back legally.
Governor Pritzker has said, don't show up. I'm not going to call you, Mr. President. And it did not go well for the president after he deployed National Guard troops in Los Angeles. He lost big in court.
Now, New Orleans is a blue city with a Republican governor of the state. Could that give the president some flexibility?
CNN's Kristen Holmes joins us now from outside the White House.
Kristen, a couple questions here. I mean, the latest on Chicago, right? Because yesterday we heard the president say were going in was the quote. And then today he seemed to be waffling in public and saying, well, maybe that, but maybe New Orleans. And now we're hearing from vice president.
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, that's right, Kasie. I mean, one thing to keep in mind here is that the White House, the administration, they're watching these legal cases very closely, and they're not unaware of what hurdles they have going into blue states with blue governors when they are not invited. You talk about that loss in Los Angeles. They are expecting to be challenged in court if they are to go into Chicago.
Now, I was told at one point by a number of White House officials that part of what president Trump was hoping and pushing for was that using this rhetoric on crime, talking about how he wants to come in and help and pushing Pritzker, who we know that Chicago has had a crime problem that is not a secret, but pushing him that he would eventually have to either say yes, come in and help us with crime, or he would pay for it politically.
He believed that Pritzker might say yes. Now it's starting to appear as though that's not going to happen. And when we heard from the vice president today, it certainly sounded like those Chicago plans were on hold. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Look, there are no immediate plans, but the president has said he has the legal authority to protect American citizens, whether that's in Chicago or Washington, D.C. Obviously, as the president has said, we want the governor to be a partner here. We would love it. Democrat or Republican, if we had governors who were willing to actually be partners in cutting down crime in our country. Unfortunately, it looks like that's not what we have in J.B. Pritzker.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Now, we heard from some council members in New Orleans who are pushing back. But you also heard what President Trump said there that the governor would welcome them. That indicates that there's been a conversation. And on top of that, we saw the senator from Louisiana saying that he was supportive, posting that on Twitter, that he was supportive of having the national guard, that it would keep people safe.
And even though Vance and Trump have said that they believe they have the legal authority to keep people safe, they're also very aware of what legal authority they actually have. And that's why when you look at what they were talking about with Chicago, the focus other than Trump continuing to say how dangerous Chicago was, the focus from the administration when they were putting this information out there, kept saying, this is all about adding federal resources to a federal program about immigration, because that's what they knew they could do legally.
Clearly here, when it comes to the national guard, when it comes to that lawsuit in Los Angeles, which we know only applies to California, this is prompting them to at least rethink the timing and table this Chicago piece of this for now, when it comes to the National Guard.
HUNT: Quite a walk back.
All right, Kristen Holmes, thank you very much for that reporting. Really appreciate it.
And our panel, of course, is still here. David Axelrod, Chicago is your hometown.
AXELROD: It is, proudly.
HUNT: You've seen the mayor of Washington, D.C. I mean, obviously, the legal situation, as we outlined is different. She has in some ways embraced the president and his push here to reduce crime. She said, great, bring on the resources. We could use them.
J.B. Pritzker and the mayor of Chicago, Mayor Johnson, have taken a completely different approach. Obviously, a much different legal situation.
How do you see the contours of this, and what do you make of the way the president's changed his tune today?
AXELROD: Well, I think, you know, Kristen talked about the legal aspects of this. Theres a political one, too, because there's an obvious question, why are you choosing the cities you're choosing?
Chicago has had a crime problem historically, and it's also a great city, by the way. I mean, I'm around the city all the time, and I see people flowing in there. I was at NASCAR and I was at Lollapalooza, or at least watching it from afar.
HUNT: Really? You were --
AXELROD: I don't want to -- I don't want to stretch this beyond -- I don't want to stretch beyond the bounds of credulity here. But -- and I just love watching people stream into our city. You know, our buddy Scott Jennings brought his kids there over July 4th, and he was just effusive about the experience.
So, yes, we have problems. Okay.
HUNT: Great town, Chicago.
AXELROD: But if you want to help, you can help. You know, we have violence interruption programs that have made a difference in the last few years. They just got cut by the president. We have a terrible gun problem. Gun trafficking that comes in largely from Indiana, or half of the guns recovered in crimes from Indiana.
Help us. Where? I think we should accept that help. We should want that help. But his issue is when he starts picking on Chicago and sort of sander -- you know, it's sullying its image and calling it a hellscape and such.
The question becomes, okay, but Memphis is worse. New Orleans has a worse problem. St. Louis has a worse problem. Why aren't you going into those states? Why are you just choosing states where you think you can start a political fight that benefits you? And so going to New Orleans is a partial solution to that.
BASH: So, I didn't grow up in Chicago, but I'm the daughter of two proud Chicagoans. So, you know. HUNT: I always forget that. I love that Midwestern --
BASH: Your Cubs, right? Not White Sox.
AXELROD: Well, I'm from New York, so I don't have to choose. I have tickets on both sides of town. Season tickets on both sides.
TODD: Wishy washy.
BASH: Come on.
HUNT: Very political answer.
AXELROD: I can only be truthful.
(LAUGHTER)
HUNT: Brad, what do you think?
TODD: Well, I think this is a trap Democrats keep falling into. There have -- they have to choose. Do we hate Donald Trump more than we hate crime more? And the fact is, "AP" has a poll out recently says 81 percent of Americans think crime in these large cities is too bad. And things that they can't accept. Meanwhile, 53 percent say they mostly trust Donald Trump on crime.
So, I think the best thing Democrats could do is say, yes, we have a problem. Please help us. Send us all the resources you want. That's how they could mitigate their political problem on the issue.
HUNT: So I'm going to invoke Scott Jennings name again on this show --
AXELROD: Even when he's not here.
HUNT: -- hanging over there, he's not here, but he was here yesterday. And Jonah Goldberg was sitting in Dana's seat.
And, Brad, the way Jonah and -- he and Scott got into it. Jonah being very sort of conservative around the Constitution and originalist ideas, he said, hey, if there's a Democratic president saying were going to send in the National Guard to take away people's guns to get those off the streets, solve the crime problem, would someone sitting in your Republican chair be cool with that?
[16:40:02]
TODD: Because the person pulling the trigger on the gun is the criminal. And so, David -- I was going to point David. The guns may come from Indiana. The criminals come from Chicago. You can lock a criminal up, and Chicago has to do more of that.
But again, Trump has an advantage on a couple of subjects. Immigration and crime. Democrats have advantages on other things like health care. They're walking right into the trap to lock themselves into the crime position that has gotten them beaten. WILLIAMS: Yeah. And I think, you know, to your point, brad, the best
thing, perhaps the mayor could do is agree to take, like, if I were king or mayor of Chicago, at least close. The best thing to do is accept the help but put conditions on it and say, we will take your folks. But number one, ensure that they're all uniformed. If they're coming in.
Number two, perhaps the masks have them take or we won't prosecute any case that doesn't meet a certain evidentiary threshold. So, yes, we're taking the help. We are willing to collaborate to make the city safer, but we're not going to take these junk, these junk cases.
TODD: Sort of saying something, something along those lines. Mayor Bowser here --
WILLIAMS: And that's what she's doing, which is, you know --
BASH: Again, it's different.
AXELROD: I'm sorry.
WILLIAMS: No, I was just going to say you can, you know, a local mayor can put restrictions on what the federal government does. Everybody works together, but you just can't bring these junk prosecutions --
BASH: You're talking about the law and you're talking about policy. But let's just get down to the main reason why president is doing this, so to speak.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
BASH: Yeah. And that is every time he talks about crime, it's -- he believes it's a winning issue. And just like Brad said --
AXELROD: More than the economy.
BASH: He believes that -- he believes that the more he pushes it, the more he's going to pull Democrats right into a trap.
AXELROD: Well, I think I agree with both of you guys. I think that there is a trap here, and there is also, just as Republicans are drawn to support Trump on stuff that is damaging to them as a party, in some respects, there are Democrats who see profit in fighting Trump within the Democratic ranks, and that that is all true. And I think there's a trap and you have to avoid that trap.
But all I would say to you is that, yes, there are, you know, people should be prosecuted. We don't have a high enough arrest rate in Chicago. We could use more police. Id love to see him take that money that he's spending on national guardsmen, sending them to send them to Chicago. Let us get more police officers on the street.
All of that -- more prosecutors. All of that is true. But the question is whether this is on the level. You're saying exactly what is right and you're saying what is right. He sees a political calculus here. We have a problem. I live in Chicago. You want to help? Help. You want
to play politics? Go somewhere else.
WILLIAMS: Yu know it's all political theater is that you know, where you're far more likely to be killed on the street than Chicago, Illinois. Shreveport, Louisiana. If we were having a serious national conversation about making cities safer, you would look at all the cities.
HUNT: And that's what the governor actually said. He said, we'll take President Donald Trump's help from New Orleans to Shreveport.
WILLIAMS: Look at that.
HUNT: Look at that.
Ax, briefly, as you were saying, that it made me wonder, what did you think of J.B. Pritzker, the governor of Illinois' political performance yesterday in taking on Donald Trump? Because you can't help but see contours of 2028, in Gavin Newsom fighting in California and Pritzker fighting in Illinois.
AXELROD: Yeah. And, you know, I -- look, I have a lot of respect for J.B. Pritzker and -- but I think there is I would be careful about playing '28 politics on this issue because the right answer is we'll take all the help we can get as long as it's appropriate help, as long as it's stuff that will really help. I mean, these national guardsmen aren't even trained to do that work. They're not authorized to do that work.
So, you know, send us the resources that we need. We want to work with you. If there are criminal, if there are people doing violent crimes here who are illegal immigrants, we want them out of our city. We'll work with you on that.
I think that's the appropriate, position to take.
HUNT: Fair enough.
All right, coming up next here, the not one, not two, but three world leaders that President Trump says are getting together to actively conspire against the United States.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:48:41]
HUNT: Chinese President Xi putting his military on full display for the world, the West and Washington, D.C., to see showcasing China's latest drones, submarines and nuclear capable ballistic missiles. Also showing a united front with Russia and North Korea. The first time we've seen China's leader, Russian President Vladimir Putin and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un all together in public.
President Trump saying today that he was watching from Washington. Minutes after the parade started, he posted this on his social media platform, quote, "May President Xi and the wonderful people of China have a great and lasting day of celebration. Please give my warmest regards to Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong Un as you conspire against the United States of America."
He expanded slightly on those comments in the oval office today as he welcomed the president of Poland.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When they did what they did. I thought it was a beautiful ceremony. I thought it was very, very impressive. But I understood the reason they were doing it, and they were hoping I was watching. And I was watching. My relationship with all of them is very good. We're going to find out how good it is over the next week or two.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. CNN anchor and chief national security analyst Jim Sciutto joins our panel.
Jim, did they do this all just for the benefit of Donald Trump?
[16:50:01]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Absolutely not. There's a huge domestic audience --
HUNT: Sure.
SCIUTTO: -- speaking to, as well global audience. But yes, the U.S. is a big portion of that audience. And you saw united front among Russia, China and North Korea. And despite President Trump imagining -- he may have a strong personal relationship with him as far as we know. But as far as strategic interests go, those three leaders are aligned and they're aligned against the U.S. on virtually every field of play.
On the Ukraine war, they are united. There -- China and North Korea supporting Russia in that war on nuclear disarmament talks, or limitation talks, that Trump talks about wanting Russia, China, North Korea, none of them are interested in that at all. And on trade issues, China continues to stand up to some of the worst threats from Trump.
So there's nothing wrong with -- and in fact, we want our leaders to reach out on a personal level with the leaders of our allies and adversaries. But their interests, their strategic interests are a million miles apart from Americas strategic interests. And the idea that personality alone, or art of the deal negotiation tactics are going to move these countries off what they see as strategic, existential issues, it just does not line up with reality.
BASH: I was just looking down at this, forgive me, Kasie --
HUNT: No, please. BASH: -- when you were talking and thinking that these are images that are going to be indelible and memorable for a very long time. It's just astonishing.
HUNT: No, it's frames of history.
BASH: Correct. Yeah.
And I was actually going to -- sorry. Go ahead.
AXELROD: No, I was going to say and the image from the other day of Modi with them, who's in -- who's you know, we've driven him into China's arms. It feels like -- but my question to all. Well, I guess to you, Jim.
HUNT: Go ahead.
AXELROD: Is, the president said again today. Well, Putin's got two weeks. How many times? I mean, I've got kids and our grandkids. How many times can you say if you don't behave? They're going to be consequences. And after a while, when there are no consequences, what's the lesson to be taken from that?
SCIUTTO: Well, listen, you speak to Ukrainian officials. It's almost become a joke. Now, Trump's two-week deadline of which for Russia, which of which? There have been many, to the point where it's clearly not a deadline, right? Because it's been broken. It's been broken so many times. On that issue, it's just -- there's clearly no forward progress and no genuine interest from the Russian side. And sitting down and talking.
And again, in the last 24 hours, Russia launched 500 missiles and drones against Ukraine. Look at -- I mean, as we say with our kids, right? Look at what you do, not what you say. And Russia has made its lack of interest quite clear.
I mean, the other piece is this. And again, no one faults a U.S. president or other leader from attempting to negotiate and engage adversaries and allies. But when you look at the three of them, there just -- is it two weeks since the Alaska summit or three weeks.
I mean, Putin is far closer to Xi than he is to President Trump, right? They are working together. They are actually taking steps together to support each other. There's been no progress since that other, you know, at the time, we thought that that was a powerful image of Trump meeting Putin, but it didn't move the dial at all.
TODD: Well, they are -- it's a rogue's gallery and they are closer together. Xi and Putin are closer together, as are most the other thugs that we see in this picture. You know, they we cannot survive as a country if we cannot unite to fight the threat of China over the next hundred years.
They have a population advantage on us. They have an ambition advantage on us right now. And they're funding Russia. They're keeping Russia afloat. And so, I hope that the president note that these people are
conspiring against us, will cause regular Americans to decide we ought to work together on combating China.
SCIUTTO: Here's the thing, though, from China's perspective, is that China sees the U.S. as undermining its own interests by other actions, weakening its own alliances, right? Because, you know, traditionally one of Americas greatest strengths in terms of standing up to China or others is that we had allies where they don't have allies, right? And China's view is that is accelerating Americas decline, at least in their view, rather than strengthening America's position.
AXELROD: Yeah, as well as tariffs, as well as alternative energy, and as well as the brain drain, you know, keeping people from --
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: Tariffs are a way to check China's power.
HUNT: Potentially. Yes.
All right. Unfortunately, we got to cut this off. We'll take -- we're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:59:12]
HUNT: All right. Welcome back.
We have some breaking news just in on President Trump's battle with Harvard University.
CNN senior White House reporter Betsy Klein is here with the latest.
Betsy, what are we learning?
BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah, Kasie, we are still going through this ruling right now. But it appears that a federal judge has handed Harvard a major victory in its efforts to take back nearly $2 billion in federal funding frozen by the Trump administration.
Now, Harvard is the only university that's been targeted by the Trump administration to fight back in court that Trump administration argues they are cracking down on antisemitism. But Harvard has really become the epicenter of a much broader fight over academic freedom, federal funding and campus oversight.
But the judge, Judge Allison Burroughs, wrote in her decision there was no obvious link between the affected research projects that were being cut and antisemitism. She lists some of those. She says that it is a smokescreen for a targeted, ideologically motivated assault on the country's premier universities -- Kasie.
HUNT: All right. Betsy Klein with that report -- Betsy, thank you very much.
And thanks to our panel as well for being in THE ARENA today.
Don't go anywhere. "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts right now.
