Return to Transcripts main page

CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt

Conservative Activist Charlie Kirk Shot In Utah; Trump: Charlie Kirk Is Dead. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired September 10, 2025 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:04]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Chief Ramsey, thank you so much for that perspective.

If you are just joining us, we are following two shootings this afternoon, one in Utah. Conservative activist Charlie Kirk appears to have been shot in the neck. We are working to find out his medical condition at this time.

We're also following a report of two students being shot at Evergreen High School not far from Denver, Colorado.

Stay with CNN.

THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: We do have breaking news as we come on the air this afternoon. A horrific act of violence.

The conservative activist Charlie Kirk, a close associate of the president, shot in front of a crowd during a political rally in Utah. We just got video of the moment this occurred. We're going to freeze it when the shot is fired. But we do want to warn you that even with that precaution, this footage is disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLIE KIRK, CONSERVATIVE: Counting or not counting gang violence?

(GUNSHOT)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh my God. Go! Run, run!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: At this time, the extent of Kirk's injuries is unknown. At this moment, he does remain hospitalized. That's according to Turning Point USA, the organization that Kirk founded and that he leads.

In a statement, Utah Valley University said that they believe a shot was fired from a campus building about 200 yards away. President Donald Trump, posting online just moments ago this, quote, "We must all pray for Charlie Kirk, who has been shot, a great guy from top to bottom. God bless him," end quote.

Our CNN team is covering this unfolding story. Senior White House correspondent Kristen Holmes is here. Chief law enforcement analyst John Miller, our chief media analyst Brian Stelter, and chief national affairs correspondent jeff Zeleny all with us.

Kristen Holmes, I want to go first to you. You have been reporting out this news. What do we know right now about what happened and what the White House is saying about it?

KRISTNE HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Kasie, the details are still coming in, but we do know that he was at this stop. It was for his new tour. It was the first stop in Utah.

He often -- Kirk often does these kind of trips to these college campuses where he engages in what he calls political debate. He is trying to bring people over to the Republican Party.

I do want to talk a little bit about what's going on right now, behind the scenes at the White House and Kirks relationship with Washington, with President Trump. I have talked to a number of White House officials and staffers, all of whom seem to be in disbelief. They are following this incredibly closely. They have been in touch with Charlie Kirk's team. They are trying to learn the details of what exactly happened. Other than him being shot.

There is no one really who is -- who is as close to being a government official, or an administration official or a cabinet secretary, but not that Charlie Kirk. He is in direct contact constantly with President Trump, with President Trump's team.

He is somebody who President Trump thanked and credited for winning the 2024 election. He has an enormous following on social media. He has brought young people into the Republican Party, which is why President Trump has thanked him.

I have talked to people that are close to Trump and to the MAGA sphere who have described Kirk as having more of a finger on a pulse of these issues than some people in the administration. The issues that Trump's base cares about.

At one point during the transition, it was floated that Charlie Kirk might get an administration position and ultimately decided that he was more powerful and had more influence outside of the White House. However, he is here all the time. He talks to President Trump all the time, and his influence is felt.

And it is very clear that it's not just, you know, the White House officials monitoring the situation. They're monitoring the situation of which many of them are close friends with this man who they witnessed in these videos getting shot.

HUNT: John Miller, I want to bring you into this conversation just to talk a little bit about what we know about the scenario that played out here, and we are just working through details of whether or not there is a suspect in custody. It may be that initial reporting that said that there was someone in custody, not actually the case here, but the university saying that this shot came from a building 200 yards away.

What does that tell you about this incident?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, it tells us that it is still too fluid to put our thumb on real hard facts beyond what we know. I mean, what we know was from all the video that a single shot appears to be fired. You can hear the shot and what appears to be the echo from that shot, which indicates fired from a long distance.

[16:05:01]

You see Charlie Kirk get hit by that shot and go down. His security people take him from that, from underneath that tent where he's sitting, where he is seated, giving the speech and move him towards medical care. Now, what we are also told, and this is official from the university, is that campus police are investigating that a suspect was taken into custody -- what we understand from the -- from other video we've seen is that an individual was taken into custody. He was handcuffed. He was taken away from the scene by police.

But what we are not able to establish right now is what led up to that. And whether or not that individual who was taken into custody is the shooter was the right person or someone who was pointed out, who was taken into custody and removed for investigation. That is a set of facts that is still not confirmed, other than we know an individual was taken away in handcuffs. So, something we're still working on.

We also, you know, are able to glean from the university statements that that shot was fired from a campus building. They believe from that distance, 200 yards that this has the earmarks of an attempted assassination, not a spontaneous event where someone in the crowd pulled out a pistol, but something that was much more likely carried out by a long rifle, likely with a scope from a great distance away, which shows a level of planning in advance for an event that we already know based on the 6,000 people who we are told signed a petition against this event, or the over a thousand that signed a petition in favor of it, that Charlie Kirk's appearance at the university was going to be controversial and was the subject of contention and enough attention that some individual would have had time to put together a plan and to scope out a location, a perch, a place that this could be seen from.

But again, these are indicators we're seeing. We are still waiting for investigators to give us the facts that they can give us at this early stage.

HUNT: All right, John Miller, stand by for us. I know you're going to continue reporting this out.

I do want to bring in -- we have an eyewitness to the shooting who is on the phone with us, Raydon Dechene.

Raydon, thank you very much for being willing to call in and tell us what you saw here. Can you walk us through where you were, what you saw, what you heard this afternoon?

RAYDON DECHENE, EYEWITNESS (via telephone): Yeah. So, I was right up front. So, there's a camp for the Charlie -- for Charlie and his security and whatnot. And his hat. And then there's a walk. There was like a two guardrails, with a walkway between the two guardrails for the people that were going to go up and do their -- prove me wrong debate.

And then I was right up against the I was off if I was looking at Charlie, I was off to the right center -- right against the great. And he was just on his second interview. And it was a -- it was about a gun control with a whole new transgender issue where they're talking about, you know maybe taking away their rights or whatnot. I'm not sure all about that.

But all of a sudden, I heard just one pop, saw Charlie all of a sudden, like, his head kind of fell back and blood was just gushing out of his neck. And then at that point, I kind of turned my head to look uphill because it felt like it came from up behind me.

And then I saw everybody dropping. So, I dropped down, and then the next thing I know, they said, run. So, we all took off running. So, I didn't see the arrest or anything like that.

HUNT: Yeah. What can you tell us about kind of the mood of the event up -- and up until this point? I mean, John Miller, John Miller was just reporting that this had been apparently somewhat controversial, but clearly it had drawn a significant crowd.

DECHENE: Yeah, we were -- I mean, we were all having a good time. I was talking to some college kids around me. I'm in my 50s, so, you know, it's kind of fun to hear the younger, the younger kids' point of views with different things.

And so, I was just kind of talking with them. We were doing chants, you know, like USA, Charlie Kirk, things like that. We were listening to, you know, some Queen or some Bon Jovi just fell down, and the whole time.

HUNT: Raydon, did you see any of the aftermath in terms of emergency first responders coming?

[16:10:02]

Our reporting now that Charlie Kirk is in the hospital.

DECHENE: Okay. I'm worried about him because it looked really bad. Yeah, there was -- I mean, there was already some cops on scene. And, you know, he had security. I'm sure he had other people, too, that were -- not sure what their roles were. But as I was leaving, even walking, running to my car while I briskly walked, but there was a bunch of emergency vehicles still coming and even leaving.

HUNT: Raydon, can you tell us a little bit about the security measures that were in place? You obviously were able to get very close to Charlie Kirk here. Did you have to go through a metal detector or anything like that?

DECHENE: No. There was none. They didn't even ask for a ticket.

HUNT: So, this was an open event where you were able to walk up without having a ticket checked, without having your bag searched or anything along those lines?

DECHENE: Yep, exactly.

HUNT: All right. And is there anything else, Raydon, that you noticed that you felt at, at this event that you think we all should know about?

DECHENE: I just feel that, you know, for these type of things, they need to have better security. They need to check bags. They need to have metal detectors, and that -- that felt off when I went there.

HUNT: Did you -- you mentioned that there were some police officers on scene. Did you notice any security measures around Charlie Kirk beyond that, or did it stand out to you at all before this happened?

DECHENE: Yeah. I think it was probably his own security and maybe some campus security. I'm not sure who -- who belonged to who.

HUNT: Fair enough. All right.

DECHENE: You know, I don't know how many and where they were all located. I mean, these were just the ones that kind of saw up in my front area.

HUNT: No. Of course.

All right. Raydon Dechene -- Raydon, I'm sure this was a very difficult to witness. And of course, as you note, we're all worried about the condition of Charlie Kirk at this point. I want to thank you very much for bringing the information that that you saw to our audience.

I want to bring into this conversation our Scott Jennings, because, Scott, I understand you spoke with Charlie Kirk at fairly recently, actually. And this is, you know, someone that's very close to a lot of the people who are around President Trump. This -- this is someone -- he's got two young kids.

Can you talk a little bit about Charlie Kirk, the person, what? You kind of understand him to be and help our audience who may not be familiar with him, understand why he matters.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah. I did see Charlie a couple of weeks ago. We were -- he invited me to a Turning Point USA. That's his organization. An event for some of their supporters in Colorado. And I went and we did a conversation.

And Charlie, to many people on the right, especially a lot of young people, represents a resurgence and a rebirth of being a conservative and a young person at the same time. You know, we went through an era where, you know, a lot of young people who felt conservative or had conservative values, felt alone and felt like, you know, they couldn't be public about it. And Charlie shows up and starts to organize young people, and he starts to speak out, and he becomes this inspiration for a whole generation of young conservatives.

And his organization starts to build. He has these chapters on college campuses. They have recently expanded into having chapters in high schools. They have a robust and growing high school network as well. To all these young conservatives, Charlie is their guy and Charlie bridges that gap between the older politicians and the older sort of hierarchy of our official politics and the younger, excited grassroots conservatives that are just getting into it.

Now, Charlie and I work together. He's on the Salem Radio network. He has the radio show that's on from noon to 2:00 each day. I was on, I'm on from 2:00 to 3:00. So I had just come on to do my show, and about halfway through it, we got the news that Charlie had been shot.

And so, I had to talk through it this afternoon. And ill be honest with you, I am a -- in utter disbelief at this. I sat in this room last summer, the night they shot the president, and now they shot Charlie. And I'm not sure it's safe to be an outspoken conservative walking around in America right now.

And, there's a lot of people out there who are in absolute shock and are horrified by this. And I don't know what's going to happen other than to tell you that this nation is in desperate need of prayer and some kind of an intervention because the -- when you can't -- I mean, what was Charlie doing? Making a speech, engaging in rhetoric, having a debate. That's the bedrock of our nation.

And now, you can't go out in public and engage in speech. It's the opposite of violence. Speech is the opposite. And so, I don't know what's going to happen to Charlie. All I can really think about is his poor wife and those two babies.

And so, I think the best thing any of us can do right now is just pray for his recovery and pray for their comfort, because God help us, were in a bad place.

HUNT: You mentioned that what he was doing at this event was speaking and we actually do have video of what Charlie Kirk was saying right before this moment. And again we do have to warn you that this footage is disturbing, not because of anything that was said, but because we will freeze it at the end. Because that is the moment when a shot that was fired hits Charlie Kirk.

So, let's watch a little bit of the conversation that he was having right as this unfolded. Let's take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Great.

So, do you know how many transgender Americans have been mass shooters over the last ten years? KIRK: Too many.

(APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay. There's five.

Okay. Now, five is a lot, right? I'm going to give you -- I'm going to give you some credit. Do you do you know how many mass shooters there have been in America over the last ten years?

KIRK: Counting or not counting gang violence?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Great --

(GUNSHOT)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get down, get down, get down!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right, so again, very disturbing, those moments there.

And, Max Rose, your former congressman from New York, a Democrat, veteran. You were listening to what Scott said just there. What -- what is your reaction to what we've seen unfold today?

MAX ROSE (D), FORMER NEW YORK CONGRESSMAN: You know, politics is so deeply emotional and personal today. And my heart really goes out to Scott, you and everyone else in your movement who worked so closely with him because there's nothing like being in the political trenches to forge incredible, incredible bonds. And I just can't imagine the pain that everyone is going through.

I would urge us, particularly in a moment like this, to both not make this political and also to not jump to conclusions. We're not aware of the political affiliation of the -- of the shooter either. We have no idea what's going on right now.

And so perhaps the only slight change I would make to what you said or suggestion is, is that I fear for anyone who's outspoken today for their safety, for how vitriolic the world is becoming.

What I would just say from a purely analytical standpoint of that horrific video is that whoever the shooter was had an opportunity to undertake a mass shooting there and did not -- fired only one shot. And so, whatever their motivation was, it was fueled by hatred.

And we can never feel so trite to say it during these times. But we have to do everything in our power during good times and bad to not allow for political sentiments to translate to violence.

HUNT: Well, I think it's an important reporting point that we do not at this point have information about who the person is that perpetrated this, why they may have perpetrated it, but that does not take away from the pain that those who are close to Charlie Kirk are feeling, or from the fear they may feel that they are targeted or being targeted because of the things that they believe politically.

We just need to underscore what we know and what we don't know at this point. And for that, we want to go back to our John Miller, who has some new reporting about whether there is a suspect in custody here.

John, what's the latest?

MILLER: All right. What we are told now and this is official from the Utah valley university spokesperson is that this shooting occurred at 12:10, about 10 minutes into the event, around the second question. But that a suspect is not in custody.

Now, the school originally said police had a suspect in custody, and we have seen the video where police clearly have an individual down on the ground. He is picked up, he's handcuffed, he is marched to a police car and taken away.

[16:20:03]

This is that older man, possibly in his 60s, that was described earlier.

But what we are told is that person is not believed to be the shooter. Don't know how that person got pointed out or came to be taken into custody. But the important point here is the shooter is not in custody.

Now, that also changes the dynamics of the story because it is not a situation where, you have a shot fired and the crowd grabs somebody and police are investigating. You have a situation where it appears that a gunman who may have done a deliberate, premeditated assassination, perhaps with a long weapon from a great distance away, maybe 200 feet, according to the college officials, who say they believe the shot came from a campus building at that distance, that means that you may have a suspect at large at this time, which means that there is -- unless that suspect's identified and taken into custody outside this event, that means that there is still a danger to the community and somebody that needs to be identified through investigation and then track down.

So that really turns the story to a different dynamic, because we are not only awaiting to hear from the hospital, what is the fate or condition of Charlie Kirk, but we are also looking to investigators to say, what do we know? Do we have an identity?

If we do not have an identity, do we have an image from video, from an indoor camera, from an outdoor camera that shows someone we believe were looking for, and, and to start formulating that information and getting it out, because right now, that means we have a suspect who's out there somewhere.

HUNT: John, can we just underscore here, this with this reality that this person is apparently still at large? There was just the single shot fired. So, what does that tell you as you think like an investigator about -- whether, I mean, it seems fairly obvious that this would have been a targeted assassination attempt, but how is that evaluated for law enforcement as they continue to search out this man?

MILLER: Well, it means you're looking for it. Well, let's break it down from a couple of angles. One, we just spoke to someone on this show who said this was an open event on an open campus. There were no gates, tickets, metal detectors.

The object of inviting Charlie Kirk here, and the object of his Prove Me Wrong tour is to engage with as many people as possible. So, this was an open event.

Now, let's talk about the realities of the law in Utah, which is it is perfectly legal to carry firearms on college campuses in the state of Utah. That includes open carry, where you can see it in the open or concealed carry if you have a concealed carry permit. So anybody could have shown up at this event. And because of the local laws, anybody could have shown up with a gun.

What we're looking at here is very different. A shot that's made from 200 yards away. And that's the official statement from the Utah Valley University spokesperson that they believe the shot came from a campus building approximately 200 yards away tells us this isn't someone who just showed up with a gun.

This is someone who, because of the controversy around this event or the news coverage around it, was aware of it enough to get there, at some point ahead of time and maybe not today, maybe days earlier. As this controversy roiled to scope out a spot to find a place that gave him a direct line of sight to where Charlie Kirk was going to be speaking to have the right kind of weapon and optics in terms of a scope and talent, in terms of a shooter, in terms of practice and training, to be able to make that shot.

So, this is -- this is a very particular kind of shooter that we're looking for, not the active shooter, like the Las Vegas sniper who was looking to shoot and kill as many people as possible. But a cold- blooded assassin who knew who his target was and was determined through planning and proper equipment to make this happen the way it happened today.

Again, we still do not have any update on the condition of Charlie Kirk at this point, who -- who was taken from the scene by his security people and then -- and then to medical care at the hospital.

[16:25:04]

HUNT: Yes. And, of course, we're going to continue to try and report out the very latest on his condition.

To talk a little bit more about this, I want to go now to Phil Lyman. He is a former Utah state representative.

And, Phil, I understand you were actually backstage with Charlie Kirk before this event. Can you tell us what you witnessed both before and after this took place?

PHIL LYMAN, EYEWITNESS/FORMER UTAH STATE REPRESENTATIVE: Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I met his entourage when he came up, and I -- and I shook Charlie's hand and said hello, and we talked for a second and lots of college students were there to get their pictures with them. So, they did that, and we -- and then we went up to wait as he -- as he came up to the stage, he was thrown out hats and I was kind of, you know, there's a handicapped person there that wanted that. And so, I was like, trying to get Charlies attention. And he saw me, and he came right over and handed this guy a hat, and it was really very kind.

I'm just sitting there watching, I think, wow, he's taller than I thought he was. And he's -- and he's -- and he's so energetic and he's so happy and he's one of these hats out. And the crowd is just going nuts. And it was, you know, a huge college crowd. When he started talking, I thought, you know, I'm going to go up top and see if I can get some better pictures of the crowd. And just on my iPhone.

So, I went up to, went up to the top as high as I could go to towards the back. And, and I was standing there, I was about to walk into the building when I heard this loud bang, and I turned around to see what, you know, like something had tipped over or some, you know, it was very loud. I thought, that's that -- that was loud. And I'm looking around and, and then -- and then -- and then start, start screaming at people fleeing down, down on the -- in the concourse.

And so, I started looking around and then, a couple of minutes went by and, and I'm, and people were saying he was shot. He was shot. So I'm looking for a shooter trying to see who was this and are they going to shoot again?

And I honestly think it might have been coming from the building on top of I think it might come from on top of the building. Based on where I heard the sound come from, because it's like that was right here.

Anyway, and then then the cops came right where we were at and, you know, did you see, did you see, did you see? And nobody, nobody claimed to have witnessed that. So, I -- so then I then I ran down to back down to the -- to the front and I -- and I ran into a couple of as I'm coming up, the kids were that had been down there. The college kids were saying, yeah, we saw. And he was -- he was shot in the neck. And it looks really, really serious.

And I saw one of Charlie Kirk's people, and I -- I just said, do you know what happened? And he said yeah. He said he was shot and were not sure. You know, we wouldn't give me any reports about Charlie, but said that, that they thought that they had apprehended the shooter. And that was about ten minutes in, but I don't -- yeah. I didn't see the shooter.

I just -- yeah, I was there. It was, it was just -- it was just unbelievable. And just, you know, and then afterwards, the people are just you know, not here, not Provo, not Provo, Utah. It's like that just such a such a contradiction.

HUNT: Phil we should note that the university initially did report that they had a suspect in custody, but they've since said that whatever transpired there, the person that was taken into custody was not. In fact, the shooter. And that the shooter is apparently --

LYMAN: Oh, really?

HUNT: -- still at large. Obviously, I understand you're sharing your experience with us, but that's what we know now. Can you say anything more about, you know, I think were all, you know, thinking about Charlie Kirk, his condition at this point.

How likely anyone who saw this happen felt that what happened to him was survivable?

LYMAN: I mean, there's so much speculation, and I -- there's a lot of people said, oh, yeah, no way, no way. He survived that. But the word I'm getting now is that he that they are still working on him, and he is alive. And I'm hoping -- I'm praying that that's the case.

I also I've got -- I've got a lot of family that live right next to the -- to the university. And I'm just kind of hanging out at their house and one of my -- one of my relatives called and said, hey, just so you know, my son in law is on the police force. And he said, they're looking for another suspect.

So, lock your doors and so the neighborhood is locked down. And we saw -- we saw National Guard, you know, several blocks away moving in mass up the hill. So, it would confirm that what you're saying that they're still -- they're still doing something.

But yeah, I had the same I was listening to the interview just before, and I had the same thought. You know, this you would not be able to pull out a rifle in the crowd where I was at and where I thought those shots were coming from. Unless you were on top of the roof, I don't think you would have.

And obviously, this person fired one shot and it was a kill shot.

[16:30:04]

Again, hopefully, hopefully, Charlie survives it, but -- but it was definitely intended to kill him. So, yeah, it's not your standard. It's not your standard nutjob. Somebody that knows how to use a gun.

HUNT: Phil, you said that your community couldn't believe that it would happen in Orem, Utah. Of course, Provo, Utah, well-known town. And now you're saying that there is this lockdown.

Can you say a little bit more about the community, about how Charlie Kirk would have been welcomed potentially by the broader community?

LYMAN: I mean, that was the thing that is just like, so refreshing. You go there and just a sea of -- a sea of people, you know, young people and they're -- they've got their music playing and, you know, them up stuff. And it was just -- it was about this, this is America right here.

And I think Charlie said something like that as he was kind of like getting out of his car and stuff like, you know, God bless America. And so -- yeah, the crowd was electric. There were some haters there. There were some people there, you know, with protest signs and which is what Charlie thrives on that.

But that's like, it's to Prove Me Wrong tour. So, people were asking questions, and that's always exciting. Yeah. So, the feeling was -- the feeling was just 100 percent electric. And like, this is exciting to have Charlie Kirk in town.

HUNT: Phil, can you say a little bit more about what you may know about your neighborhood? You said you're with family at a home nearby. And that because the shooter is still on the loose, the community needs to be aware, be careful, as someone dangerous is on the run.

LYMAN: I mean, that's the -- that's the word that's around. I -- some people may be afraid, I don't think that most people are like hunkering down or, you know, fearing for their life. But when the cops, you know, when the police say, you know, could you stay in your home and keep your doors locked? They probably do that more to stay out of their way.

But yeah, very, very curious. I mean, you probably have a way better information source. I really feel like I'm a little bit isolated here. Lots of phone calls and lots of communication going on, but, all of it, so much hearsay.

HUNT: No, of course. And were, of course, reporting out with the official authorities. But as you were someone who was there -- who was with Charlie Kirk today.

Phil, before I let you go, I know it's been a -- I'm sure, incredibly difficult day for you. What are your reflections? What were the -- what were the things that Charlie Kirk said to you before this tragedy unfolded?

LYMAN: So, again, talking to talking to Charlie for the, you know, the 15 seconds that we -- that we talked he remembered. He remembered having met me before, and I told him who I was, and he was like, oh, of course, of course. And he's glad to have you here in Utah. And he just said, yeah, it's great. It's great. Great day to be in Utah.

And you know, again then all the kids are that's where his attention was. It's not on old guys like me. He was there to really pump up the college kids. And he was doing that. And it's fun to watch him.

Yeah, like I said, he's taller and better looking than me. Every time I see him, he's like, he's really tall. And yeah, very, very friendly, very nice.

HUNT: All right. Phil Lyman, former Utah state representative, who, of course, was with Charlie Kirk at today. I want to thank you very much for taking some time with us. I really appreciate it.

I want to bring in now our Jeff Zeleny, who, of course, covered the entire 2024 presidential campaign for CNN, has covered many campaigns before that. And, Jeff, you know, one of the things about Charlie Kirk, and you can see it in what we're hearing from people close to the president.

You know, Donald Trump, Jr., calling Kirk one of the finest humans I know. Everyone lift him and his family up in prayer.

J.D. Vance is saying, say a prayer for Charlie Kirk. A genuinely good guy and a young father.

They are speaking about him in intensely personal terms because of the deep personal relationships that Charlie Kirk has developed with the president and those around him.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Kasie, there is no one who compares to Charlie Kirk in terms of his relationship with President Trump, Vice President Vance, the Trump family, and Charlie Kirk. Let's talk for a moment about who he is. He's a 31-year- old college dropout himself, but he had more of an influence on college students and young voters, helping to elect the president. Yes, but also to inspire a new movement of conservative activists.

He's from the Chicago suburbs.

[16:35:01]

He went to Wheeling High School in the northwest suburbs of Chicago, and he actually came of age politically when Barack Obama was elected. But he was a high school student who was sort of at odds with his peers, and he was a conservative and did not like the Obama election and became an activist.

He dropped out of college and became a central player in the conservative movement. His movement was funded by Foster Friess, who of course, was a major Republican donor, and then Charlie Kirk was off to the races, really building an organization unlike any other.

And I attended many of his rallies during the campaign, and he attracted, a group of young followers but older followers as well, just as, the former state representative was just talking there. He was a conservative rock star. There were very few people like him. He, of course, he was a media star as well, a bestselling author. Again, 31 years old.

Kasie, I can tell you, the president, the White House, watching this very, very carefully. I've been talking to a Turning Point USA official who was on the ground in Utah. They are, considerably worried about this moment. All in shock, of course, and in disbelief.

But President Trump is a friend of Charlie Kirk. So, at some point we will obviously hear from him as well as the afternoon moves into the evening. But there is no one like Charlie Kirk in terms of his -- his assistance getting President Trump reelected. And that was clear.

I'm thinking back to inauguration day. Charlie Kirk was seated in the capitol rotunda. He was a key part of the president's reelection effort and a very good friend of Donald Trump, Jr.'s -- Kasie.

HUNT: Jeff, thank you for that context. And our David Chalian, of course, our Washington bureau chief is here.

And, David, we are, of course, waiting on final, you know, on reports about Charlie Kirks condition, being just very cautious about that piece of this. But clearly, this is a targeted attack in an incredibly divided and difficult moment for the country. How do you see what happened today?

Obviously, these initial moments here were thinking about, first and foremost, his friends and family. But this is also a very difficult political moment for the country.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF AND POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yeah. It's hard -- it's hard to hold both of those things at the same time. The human component and the unacceptable, horrific political violence. I mean, you can't, unfortunately, separate politics out from this because it's inherent to this horrific act.

And Scott, earlier called for an intervention and, it is hard -- I've, you know, to for me to say this an observer and I love, American politics and how voters and participants in the process sift through their choices. And it's what I've dedicated my career to. I -- this -- I think this we may be broken in an irreparable kind of way. And I don't mean to sound so unhopeful about it, but this is so dark and so horrific and so unacceptable that this, that this could occur in the manner that it did because of his commitment to his beliefs and spreading that message and building a movement and leading a movement.

It's -- it's to me, I don't see many signs out there of how we get as a as a people, as a body politic, as a nation on the other side of this. This stuff has been on the increase and, you know, its if we if this I don't know why this horrific event will be a different kind of wakeup call than others in the past. I hope it is. But I think we're -- we are broken and potentially beyond repair.

HUNT: Well, I think, you know, one of the things that when we grappled with violence during the campaign, David, and, you know, I remember seeing the video of then candidate Donald Trump with blood pouring from his ear -- you could also see that he walked away from that event. And that is not what we are seeing here, which, feels different.

CHALIAN: Yeah. I mean, no doubt it's different. But the political violence has gotten --

HUNT: Like we are continuing a cycle that is only headed for something that is worse --

CHALIAN: Yes, right, we are not --

HUNT: -- seen before.

CHALIAN: -- breaking the trajectory that we're on. And we need to because this is not sustainable.

HUNT: Not sustainable. It's not American. It shouldn't be American. Lulu?

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think -- I think the problem that happens is with an event like this, and I know we're all praying for Charlie, is that it just increases the hatred.

[16:40:06]

It just increases the polarization. I do not see an event like this, and we come out of this deciding that we're going to actually come together. I'm already seeing online a lot of vitriolic partisan talk.

HUNT: Yeah.

I want to bring into our conversation the former Republican senator from Arizona, Jeff Flake, is on the line with us or actually is live with us.

Senator, thank you very much for taking a moment with us.

JEFF FLAKE (R), FORMER ARIZONA SENATOR: Thank you.

HUNT: You, of course, have -- Arizona is a place where Charlie Kirk did a lot of his work. And you yourself have ties to communities, Mormon communities across the country. But in Utah, I understand you were just at this university recently, and you're also someone who has spent a lot of time talking, thinking, working on how to make our politics less like this.

What are -- what are you thinking about as we grapple with this today?

FLAKE: Well, first, my thoughts and prayers obviously are with the Kirk family, with Charlie and his family. This is just awful.

I, my wife and I were on that campus yesterday. I gave a speech on that campus and had lunch with students. Just in those buildings. You see in the background. So, this really obviously hits home.

No. It's terrible. You know, in Arizona, we grappled with shooting of Gabby Giffords and members of her staff and the federal judge, and then I was on that baseball field when the violence that happened there. And so, this is just -- it has to stop. And we've got to do better. Weve got to quit treating each other, those that -- who we may be opposed with or not agree with politically, we can't treat them as an enemy. And we've just got to do better.

HUNT: How do you think we can do better?

FLAKE: Well, I think for those of us you know, those in the public eye and those holding public office to -- and I'm not placing any blame on this specific issue, but we need to stop referring to those on the other side of us as evil or, you know, ascribing motives that just aren't deserved. And we need to realize that we can disagree with each other and still not count each other as evil.

And so, because that makes some people feel justified in violence. And, so, I think those of us in positions need to be a better example, frankly.

HUNT: Senator, Senator, I need to interrupt. We are hearing from President Trump. He is on his truth social platform, saying that Charlie Kirk has passed away.

So, again, I'm going to read to you what the president said: "The great and even legendary Charlie Kirk is dead. No one understood or had the heart of youth in the United States of America better than Charlie. He was loved and admired by all, especially me. And now he is no longer with us. Melania and my sympathies go out to his beautiful wife, Erika, and family. Charlie, we love you."

So, again, President Trump telling us at this hour that Charlie Kirk has died. Kirk was shot at a event at Utah Valley University earlier today, shortly after noon, according to the university, there was a single shot that rang out. He was shot in the neck and now the president of the United States, someone that Charlie Kirk was close to, is reporting that he has died.

I want to bring in Kristen Holmes. She is live for us at the White House.

Again, Kristen. We're, of course, mourning Charlie Kirk. This is a man who he was 31 years old. He had two very small children, three and one, ages, I believe. He is someone who was very close to the president of the United States, close to the Trump family, someone who played a critical role if you talk to people around the president in the president winning his second term, what are you hearing from those close to us? We, of course, read the statement that just came through from President Trump.

HOLMES: It's a very somber mood here. People are very upset.

[16:45:01]

It's not just at the White House. It's really among Republicans as a whole. The Republican Party has become the party of Trump. The MAGA movement. And Charlie Kirk was really at the heart of all of that.

He is credited with huge portion of Trump's win in 2024. He was on the ground. He created an entire system to get young voters out and excited and enthusiastic about Trump. And it's not just as though he was some kind of outside influencer. He was very close to the president himself.

I know specific examples of times that the two of them went back and forth over various issues. When Charlie thought something was important to the MAGA base, he brought it to the president's attention. There are some people who believe that Charlie had his finger on the pulse of Trump's base, more than even some of his own cabinet officials.

He had a huge following and again, was so close to the family, to President Trump himself. And one of the things I continue to bring up is the fact that there was a lot of conversation during the transition as to potentially making Charlie Kirk part of the administration, but the ultimate decision was that he was more influential, had more power outside of being in a government position.

He had been in Washington a number of times. He had been here with his family. He went to swearing-ins of numerous officials because he was so close to those officials. He had direct lines to almost, if not all, cabinet secretaries. I can tell you a number of them spoke to him personally.

He was incredibly powerful and influential within this administration. And it feels from -- those that I'm talking to as though they've lost a member of their team. It is really critical to point out here just how important he was to the election, but also to President Trump.

I had one person tell me that Trump considered him to be like family, and that's likely why you're seeing Trump as the one who is announcing his passing, not his family. All of this was done in conjunction. They've been in constant touch with the family, with Charlie's team getting updates, trying to figure out what exactly happened on the ground.

Now, no indication, no word if President Trump is actually going to also make a statement other than this Truth Social post, I know that they are in touch. Still with everyone close to Charlie, Charlie's family. With his team at Turning Point, with the team around him just trying to make sense of what happened.

But I will tell you, I talked to again a number of officials within the administration who are close to President Trump, who just can't wrap their head around what happened earlier today.

HUNT: Of course, of course, they can't.

Kristen Holmes, stand by for us as we continue to cover this story.

I want to bring back our Scott Jennings.

Scott, first of all, I'm sorry for your loss. I know this is somebody that you knew. What are your reflections on his life, his legacy in this moment?

JENNINGS: Well, Charlie was one of the most unique and special people in the conservative movement today. What he was able to build, the people he was able to organize was just so large and powerful. He was able to convince people to get involved in politics that might not have otherwise done so.

When you look at what he did on these campuses and in these public events, thousands of people were showing up, not for a rock concert, not for a sporting event but for American politics. He inspired all these kids to be involved in their country. This is unequivocally a good legacy.

He was also a godly person. He spoke about his faith openly. He was unapologetic about his views.

I think what's been said about Charlie having his hand on the finger on the pulse of the of the MAGA base is true. But what's also true is that he was enormously influential in that when an issue was emerging, when something was happening and people were sorting out their own views on it, you know, how should I feel about this? Charlie was one of the first people they turned to see where's Charlie going to be on this issue, and how is he processing it? How is he analyzing it, and how does he think the young conservative should view whatever the issue happened to be?

So it wasn't that just he was just reflecting people. He was leading people. He was influencing people. When he did something, when he said something, when he took a stand on an issue, you can bet that people would move.

And so, what he did to organize these young kids, to bring conservative values and views into public spaces that aren't normally thought of as places where conservatives would gather, was enormously courageous.

[16:50:13]

It took a lot of damn guts to do it, and we'll never forget Charlie, for being that next generation of conservative leader, rallying people when you might not have thought it was cool to do so, but he did it anyway, and he made it cool. And he made it -- and he made it. Honestly, Charlie Kirk was a destination for a lot of young conservatives and. We're going to miss him.

HUNT: Scott, I mean, one thing it's worth just noting how young he was. I mean, he started this organization back in 2012. He was 18 years old.

JENNINGS: Yeah.

HUNT: He was 31 today. I mean, even -- I think the Trump people at the beginning sort of raised an eyebrow. They thought this kid like, what does he know? And he showed them all that he actually had what you are talking about. He had something.

JENNINGS: He did. He had a charisma, and he had an ability to make politics engaging for that audience. You know, he took something that some young people might find to be boring or out of reach. And he made it relevant and interesting for them.

And once he had them and once they were involved, he had then this ability to motivate them to do something with that. If you've ever been to one of these Turning Point USA rallies, I went to the one in Tampa just a few weeks ago, and I was honored he invited me to speak there. It was the first time I had done so.

And it's just arena full of young people. Some are in college, some are in high school. You know, some are just young adults and their enthusiasm and zeal for the future of our country and how you change it for the better, and how they arrived at that was so inspiring.

The way they arrived at it was because they were inspired by someone who knew how to use his voice, knew how to engage in debate and political rhetoric. What he was doing was the opposite of what's happened to Charlie. You know, what's happened to him is violent, but he was using his words and his speech, which is our first protected freedom in this country.

And so, we're going to miss Charlie, and we pray for his wife and those babies. He leaves behind a young family.

You know, people like this who exist in the public sphere, we, you know, we know them as public actors, and we see them in front of crowds, and we see them on TV, and we hear them on the radio, but they go home at night, too, and they open a front door and they hug a wife, and they hug children, and they put him down and they oversee the toothbrushing and everything, just like the rest of us.

And so, there's that side of them that we don't often think about, but Charlie was doing that, too. So, I just think, in moments like this, it's easy to analyze the politics. But, you know, there was Charlie the husband and Charlie the father, and he'll be missed forever.

HUNT: Since we've just learned of this, I think it's absolutely appropriate that we're talking about Charlie Kirk, the man.

But, Scott, how do you think we can go on from this? In a way that doesn't get uglier and uglier?

JENNINGS: Well, I don't know. I mean, we all start to ask these questions in the aftermath of something. We had a lot of these conversations after President Trump was nearly assassinated, we had a presidential election. The people voted. And it's sort of the beauty of America. We've always endured and persevered through even dark moments like this one.

You know, I think there are a lot of people, though, who have given up on politics and have turned their hearts to violence. And one of the legacies of Charlie, in my opinion, is, is that politics is good. Politics is speaking to each other. Politics is conservatives and liberals and Republicans and Democrats debating and reasoning with each other. Maybe we don't agree, but when you walk --

HUNT: That's what it's supposed to be.

JENNINGS: -- into a conversation and you debate and you walk away from that conversation, that's what we're supposed to be doing. Charlie was modeling that behavior.

And so, you know what's happened to Charlie? He inspired people in his life. My suspicion is his death is going to inspire the next generation of Charlie Kirks to rise up and use their voices and stand up for what they believe in.

[16:55:03]

And, that's a legacy. Not just that you organize something in the moment, but that it could endure for a long period of time.

ROSE: I -- I've never -- I never met Charlie. But I can tell you what the Democratic Party looked at him as. And I can tell you that it wasn't a day that went by over the past few years, that on a purely apolitical level, we didn't wish that we had someone like him building a movement at that scale.

I remember the president's -- excuse me, the vice president's recent trip to Greenland. Charlie Kirk was on that plane with Don Jr. And really, unlike anyone else in politics on both sides of the aisle, he existed at that space where you have an overlap of a social movement, a political movement, and actual governance.

And so what I believe that were witnessing here, and it is, I think, at least unprecedented to a certain degree in my adult life, is the assassination of a movement leader and it's at particular moments like this that I think our country could not be in a more tenuous, tenuous place.

And so, I do hope that Democrats are able to stand up now and also acknowledge whether they -- there were many things, he said, that I disagreed with. But he had extraordinary political skill and an extraordinary ability to build a movement and build political power. And that is something that he should forever be admired for, to say nothing of, as a family man.

HUNT: David Chalian, something that just said there really strikes me. And, you know, you have so much experience, you've covered so many campaigns, you've seen a very long arc of our American politics. I've covered some of them alongside you.

The assassination of a movement leader is not something that when I started doing this job, I thought was going to be a sentence that would come out of my mouth in the context of our American politics. What does this all mean?

CHALIAN: Well, you're right, that sentence wouldn't come out of your mouth. But, you know, you do think back to last summer and you think back to watching an attempted assassination of a movement leader. And, and so, we've been in this moment and I -- the way out of it clearly is -- from your mouth to God's ears, Scott. Like, if more Charlie Kirks on the left and the right are inspired to go and become leaders of their next generation movement in politics to bring the body politic into that debate and to solve it all at the ballot box, and in rhetorical discussion, I -- you know, that would be a bright future for the country.

We just haven't seen that trajectory. I mean, we haven't seen it, whether it's on a congressional baseball field or outside a supermarket in Tucson, or whether it was in a field in Pennsylvania last year, we have seen an uptick of violence creeping into our politics in a totally unacceptable way.

It can't -- we can't stand for this because we can't move from this and advance as a society from this if we stand for this. And now with the death, the assassination of a leader of the movement like this, it -- to me, it just brings this all so much more into our reality that we have to find some path to get around this or through this, and I -- it's not clear right now what that path is.

HUNT: Yeah. We have about a minute left here.

Lulu, the other thing that I'm also struck by, as much as, you know, in you rightly point out, there have been many things leading up to this moment. I, of course, Gabby Giffords being shot. One of those key moments here. But they're also, of course, is a history of political violence in America through the civil rights movement. Obviously, somebody shot Ronald Reagan.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: The Kennedy brothers, I mean, you know?

HUNT: Yes, of course, as I was moving kind of through, through the decades. What's the way out?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think at a moment like this, what I would like to see is our leaders in this country left, right, center. Take a moment and not take advantage of a terrible action like this and ask for calm and not use it for partisan reasons. And that I mean, by the leaders in the White House and the leaders in Congress and the people who are online.

We need to show leadership in this country to find a way out.

HUNT: Leadership is what we need at this point.

And, of course, our hearts are with Charlie Kirk and his family at this time.

"THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts right now.