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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt

Officials: "Rapid Developments" In Charlie Kirk Shooting Investigation; Now: FBI Director En Route To Utah As Manhunt Underway For Shooter In Charlie Kirk Killing. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired September 11, 2025 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: -- since January, a sign that we are paying more for food, cars and clothes.

[16:00:05]

And second, a tough sign for the job market as well.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: That's right. There was this big jump in the number of people filing for unemployment for the first time. But that actually might be some good news for Wall Street, even if it's not great for Main Street, because investors are betting it means the Fed might help out with an interest rate cut. We will see.

And thank you so much for joining us.

THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Breaking news in the Hunt for the person who shot and killed Charlie Kirk.

The FBI and Utah police postponing a news conference, citing, quote, "rapid developments in our investigation," end quote. And now, a source tells CNN that FBI Director Kash Patel is en route to Utah to assist the investigation.

Hello, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA.

Those rapid developments coming just hours after they released these photos of a person of interest connected to the case. The person seen wearing a hat, sunglasses, a long sleeve shirt -- let's be clear -- the FBI says this is a person of interest. They have not yet identified them formally as a suspect.

Earlier in the day, police announced that they've recovered what they believe to be the murder weapon, a high powered rifle alongside ammunition and a screwdriver in a wooded area near the crime scene. Sources tell CNN that the rifle and the ammunition were marked with phrases related to cultural issues. We are still working through what those phrases and cultural issues are.

But authorities are analyzing them as they try to identify the suspect. The FBI is now offering a $100,000 reward for information leading to their arrest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT BOHLS, FBI SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: Any attack on the First Amendment is an attack on the very foundation of our democracy. That is why we will -- we will relentlessly pursue this case and the shooter until we find him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right. Our panel is here. But then we're going to get started with our CNN team.

CNN senior justice correspondent Evan Perez, national correspondent Nick Watt, who is on the campus of Utah Valley University, CNN senior White House correspondent Kristen Holmes is with us. And CNNs senior law enforcement analyst, the former deputy director of the FBI, Andrew McCabe, is here.

And, Kristen, I do want to start with you, because any minute now, the Vice President J.D. Vance set to land in Utah. We now know Kash Patel is also on his way there.

What else are you hearing from this administration as they grapple with the death of a close friend, and, of course, a key political ally?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kasie, look, there's still a lot of grief. There's a lot of sadness. And there's also a lot of anger.

But one thing to point out about what we're seeing with Vice President J.D. Vance, they are clearly treating Charlie Kirk like he's not just part of the administration, but that he was part of their actual families. Vice President J.D. Vance was supposed to be in New York on 9/11 to commemorate that. Instead, he flew to Utah while there is an investigation into a assassin who targeted a conservative activist, a friend of his who is still on the loose. So not ideal security wise to meet with Kirks family and then bring Kirk's body back to Arizona, where he is from on Air Force Two.

You obviously are seeing this enhancement from the FBI bringing out the director to have him on the ground as well. They are treating this in every aspect as though Kirk was a member of their own family. And in some ways, when you talk to these administration officials and these Trump advisers, they feel like he was. They do feel this sense of loyalty to one another. A very small, tight knit group of people who has been with Trump for so many years. And they believe that Kirk was part of that.

So that's why you're seeing such a difficulty with this White House as they grapple with this. We just heard from Susie Wiles, the chief of staff. She did an interview with Scott Jennings on his radio show, where she said she talked to all of them last night, all of the staffers saying, go home, hug your family and then speak louder, because that's what Charlie Kirk would have wanted. This is hitting them all very hard, and it's something that I'm

talking to, a number of these Trump advisers who say they're still processing it.

HUNT: Now, of course, incredibly difficult to grapple with on so many levels for them.

Evan Perez, there -- the news conference that was scheduled for this afternoon was postponed because of these, quote, "rapid developments". What might that mean? What are your sources telling you about the investigation?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know right now that there is still no arrests. And so whatever rapid developments are, they are -- do not involve an arrest. And so, the FBI is still grappling with really trying to get the public to provide tips. That's the reason why you've seen those new images. I think there was a debate behind the scenes because, you know, investigators tend to want to keep these details to themselves while they work the investigative details, the evidence that they have at hand.

[16:05:02]

But it might be an indication that they really are -- have run out of those. And so, they need the public to provide more tips. And so that's where we're at.

The biggest piece of evidence right now so far is really the firearm that has been recovered. You know, we talked a little bit about and you mentioned those -- those markings, those etchings that were on the firearm. And I should note that, you know, the -- those were from initial reports from the field that some analysts have been interpreting what they mean.

Until there's an arrest, we don't know exactly what those mean. And so, that's part of the reason why I think investigators are hesitant about drawing any conclusions about this, Kasie. And at this point, again, because time is of the essence, they need to find a way to find this -- this person before they perhaps carry out another shooting.

I mean, that's the other possibility here that investigators have to keep in mind that this person was doing this and may have other possible targets in mind. And so that is also a top concern for investigators.

But the reason, you know, the fact that you have Kash Patel going to the scene, Dan Bongino, I'm told, is also headed there. He's the deputy director of the FBI. What it tells you is that this is a high priority for the FBI, for this administration. And it's for those reasons that Kristen just laid out there just a couple of minutes ago.

HUNT: Yeah. No, of course.

And let's bring in on that note, Nick Watt.

You're on the ground in Utah. What are you seeing? What are you hearing from a community that is, of course, mourning, but also concerned about some of the things that Evan was just laying out. There's a gunman on the loose.

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, local officials were quick to reassure people here to say this was a targeted killing. They don't believe that the public is at risk.

Now, listen, before Charlie Kirk came here, this campus was divided. A lot of people didn't want him to come. There was a petition trying to stop him coming. Now, this campus, although it's not in session, these students are kind of united in their condemnation of violence.

You know, it's been an interesting morning. It's now, by the way, 24 hours since the shooting. First thing this morning, we were told there were some key developments overnight. We were told that they had this good video of the suspect, that they were using technology, and they were very confident that they were going to extract an identification, an ID from that video. A couple of hours later, they clearly hadn't managed to do that. And that's when they released these images.

Then we had this press conference that was supposed to happen about an hour ago, postponed because of rapid developments. Then the $100,000 reward.

Meantime, there are local officers as well as federal agents combing the area to the north, to the other side of this campus, which is where officials say this suspect fled. They are going door to door asking for Ring camera video. They are trying to piece together his movements.

And as the FBI special agent said this morning, you know, we don't know how far he's gone. And remember, it's been 24 hours.

So, you know, we were inside the campus building earlier, and it was interesting to see some of the aftermath of the reaction. Of course, people are conditioned when they hear a gunshot to believe that they're going to be more. I was walking through inside the building, and you could see a banana peel, a half empty bag of chips. People who were just left their stuff and run. There were chairs knocked over.

You could -- you could see the aftermath of that panic. Meantime, as you say, there is you know, thoughts for the family who we are now told Charlie Kirk wife and children were actually here. There is a small memorial and as you say, Charlie Kirk body will be taken from here in Utah to Arizona later.

So, shock. And as I say, a community that was divided over whether Kirk should come now pretty much united in the belief that he should not have been killed.

Back to you.

HUNT: Nick, can I also ask you about this spot shadow video of someone on the roof from yesterday? What do we know about that?

WATT: Yeah. Well, nothing further. I mean, you can see it was shot from inside the building, right after the shot was fired. And you see this dark figure running across the roof.

Now, that roof, we saw police tape up there later, we believe that that is the position from which the shooter loosed off that one round that killed Charlie Kirk, about 150 yards, clear line of sight across one other roof. Then local officials tell us they believe that this gunman turned, ran, jumped down from the roof, and as I say, fled through the neighborhood to the north.

That is where they found this weapon. That is where they are concentrating all of their investigations right now, multiple different locations. We've been told that they basically, the crime scenes are dependent on where the victim and the suspect traveled, and they have managed to put together a bit of a timeline. They now say that the suspect arrived just off campus at 11:52. The Charlie Kirk event started at 12:00. This is all local time, 12:20 is when that round was fired.

And, you know, you can see from the image, as we were told this morning, that this suspect is college age. And as we were told, could easily have blended in with the 3,000 or so people who were here on this campus to listen to Charlie Kirk and to debate with Charlie Kirk.

So that is the focus right now. This photo and anything that they can find in that neighborhood over there. But listen, as I say, the FBI, the last we heard from them, they said, we don't know how far he's gone. 24 hours plus now.

Back to you.

HUNT: And as those hours pass, that just gets harder, not easier. Nick, thanks for that.

Andrew McCabe, I want to play for you and for our audience a little bit of the dispatch audio. This is from the very beginning of the search for the gunman. Let's listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UTAH COUNTY PUBLIC SAFETY DISPATCH RECORDINGS: Going to be wearing all black, black long gun, black tactical helmet, a black mask, possibly wearing a tactical vest and jeans.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

HUNT: So, as Nick pointed out, it has been more than 24 hours. There has not been a formal suspect named here. Instead, there's this request of the public to try to help identify this blurry photo. Obviously, this person is dressed differently than what we heard in that clip.

What do you make of all of these snippets, these pieces of information?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, it's hard to compare it with those -- with that audio, quite frankly because that's, you know, those are like initial reports, in the heat of the crisis. And oftentimes they end up being not entirely accurate. Contrast that to the confidence that we saw from this law enforcement team at the press conference earlier today, when they indicated that they had the video, that from which these still images undoubtedly have been drawn.

So, the fact that they haven't identified him yet is a disappointment. But I don't believe that their confidence in the fact that he is the shooter -- I don't -- I don't think we have any reason to doubt that confidence, because that is apparently based on the fact that they've been able to track him across multiple video feeds. So, they see him from the neighborhood entering the campus. They -- we have the video that we think puts him on the roof. They have the impressions on the roof of the footprint, the forearm print and the palm print. That forearm is really key. It's not identifying, but it is the position that a shooter would likely be in when you drop your -- your upper body weight up on your forearms, kind of like a plank.

And then they have the video coverage of him going through the, you know, across the, the roof. They have some video that puts him essentially on his escape route. And then they find the rifle.

So, I think we can be fairly confident that the person in that image is the shooter. It's just that we haven't been able to put an identity -- an identification on that yet. The fact that they just laid $100,000 on the tip line indicates to you they're not super thrilled with the quality of the tips that they're getting so far. So they're really trying to incentivize people to step forward and indicate things that they might have seen.

I'm confident that they are going to find that person that we've seen the photographs of. I think it's likely that that person is the shooter. But this could take some time. We have to realize that these manhunts don't typically break open, you know, in 24 hours. And we could be here talking about this several days from now, but the investigation is definitely making progress.

HUNT: Sir, what do you make of the fact that Kash Patel and now, Evan is reporting Dan Bongino also and route to Utah here. And what does that tell you in the context of the fact that they postponed this news conference?

MCCABE: Well, like most things with this leader -- this current leadership team, its unconventional. Typically, the FBI director would not deploy out to the scene of an ongoing investigation because the FBI director brings, as you might imagine, with him, a whole, you know, it's a whole package of people and security and details and all those things require the assistance and support of the local field office and sometimes local law enforcement, which is typically the last thing that that partnership of law enforcement, that law enforcement team needs when they're in the middle of such a vital case that needs to be solved quickly.

[16:15:10]

So, it's a -- it's a strange choice. It may simply be that the director feels like he needs to be on scene to put his hands on it, to understand the details and complexities of it. I hope it's not a sign that he feels he needs to go out there to kind of take charge of things. That's usually doesn't work out well, and it can be very detrimental to the reputation and the effectiveness of his on scene commander, which is the SAC of the local field office, the special agent in charge.

As for the timing with the with the press conference that was canceled, I don't want -- I don't want to speculate too much into that. I hope that there's no -- things haven't been delayed for his arrival and there's really not any way to judge that at this point.

HUNT: Fair enough.

All right. Nick Watt, Kristen Holmes, Evan Perez, thanks very much. Andrew McCabe is going to stand by for us and be with us throughout this hour.

Up next, our panel is going to be here to weigh in on this story, all the new developments and of course, the intense reaction that we're seeing pouring in from across the country as well as from here in Washington.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:20:41]

HUNT: All right. Welcome back.

Any minute now, Vice President J.D. Vance set to land in Utah a little more than 24 hours after his close friend and political ally, Charlie Kirk, was gunned down on a college campus.

Our panel is here. CNN chief national affairs correspondent Jeff Zeleny, CNN anchor and chief political correspondent Dana Bash, former communications director for the DNC, Mo Elleithee, and senior adviser to the Trump 2024 campaign, Bryan Lanza.

Thank you all for being here on what is, of course, a very difficult day for the country as we all, Dana, grapple with what this means, and we start trying to sort through where we go from here, as we have seen more and more political violence in our country.

I think I'd like to start by playing what the governor of Utah, Spencer Cox, had to say earlier today. He, of course, is someone who has really tried to make a mark talking about the ways in which we as Americans disagree with each other. And I'm sorry, these are Cox's comments from last night. So, of course, just in the first immediate 24 hours. But I do think they're worth revisiting today. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. SPENCER COX (R), UTAH: Nothing I say can unite us as a country. Nothing I can say right now can fix what is broken. We desperately need our country. We desperately need leaders in our country. But more than the leaders, we just need every single person in this country to think about where we are and where we want to be. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: What do we want to be?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the problem is, a lot of different people have a lot of different answer to that question. And that has been true since the beginning of America, and that has been the beauty of America. And that is the whole reason why the people who rebelled against -- against the king in Great Britain wanted there to be a democracy as it is in America, to have a real debate of ideas.

And sometimes, the debate of ideas gets ugly. But the point is to not have it spill out in blood and spill out with violence, and to handle it at the ballot box. Or in the case of, most people do it, at least not on these to do it in a civilized way. And that is the real sadness that we have today about America. There's individual sadness.

Your -- you lost a friend, Bryan, but then just the pall that is over this country is people holding their breath. Even those people who didn't know who Charlie Kirk was, they didn't -- maybe they didn't like him, certainly didn't agree with him. People see what is happening and are scared for what is coming.

HUNT: And, Bryan, thank you for being here today. I know -- I know you knew Charlie. I really be interested to hear your reflections on what he stood for, as well as what you're hearing now, and how that's hitting home with you.

BRYAN LANZA, SENIOR ADVISER, TRUMP 2024 CAMPAIGN: Thank you.

Yeah. Listen, I got to know Charlie. You know, the first Trump campaign. He was a kid. He was energetic about politics. He was energetic about this country.

HUNT: He was, what, 28 or so?

LANZA: He's 31 now. So, this is the first campaign. This is -- this is -- he's even much younger. I mean, he is -- is a kid who demonstrated a tremendous amount of passion and love for this country and the process of politics.

He loved God. He talked about wanting to have a family. He wants the same dreams that all of us want. We want a strong nation. We want to be able to live in peace, raise our kids as best as we can, and provide something better for them.

And my fear is, is we're at the stage where I know if we're going to be providing anything better for them. It's scarier out there every day.

HUNT: Mo Elleithee, I want to play what the president had to say last night because of course, I think you heard Spencer Cox say there that what our leaders do and say, you know, that we desperately need leaders in our country. Here is the current leader of our country. Here's what he said last night. [16:25:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: For years, those on the radical left have compared wonderful Americans like Charlie to Nazis and the world's worst mass murderers and criminals. This kind of rhetoric is directly responsible for the terrorism that we're seeing in our country today. And it must stop right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Mo, what do you think is the imperative for people who disagreed with Charlie Kirk's ideas in this moment?

MO ELLEITHEE, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, DNC: I wish there were more Spencer Coxes in public life. People who get that, who get the importance of disagreeing and disagreeing better.

I didn't -- I wasn't friends with Charlie. I knew Charlie a little bit. He and I have sat in a lot of cable news green rooms with one another. And we had some pretty spirited conversations. But what I appreciated about him was the fact that he wanted to have the conversation, and that he wanted to challenge and he wasn't just yelling at me or lecturing me. He was asking questions and asking me to prove why I was right. And he was wrong.

That's the imperative. That's what's expected of anybody in public life, whether you're sitting in a governor's mansion or the Oval Office or on a cable news set, that's our imperative, is to engage in the conversation. I work on a college campus. The fact that this happened at a college campus breaks my heart, because there's no place where the free exchange of ideas is more mission critical than a university campus.

But when I put people from opposing perspectives together with students, I tell them like, the point is to understand, to understand the other side. Maybe you'll even find common ground. And it's awesome if you do. But throughout history, we haven't always found common ground, and that's okay, too.

You can be a better advocate for your own position if you take the time to listen and engage and understand. We need more of that right now, desperately.

HUNT: Well, and, Jeff Zeleny, I mean, to kind of underscore that point, right? Mo is talking about the exchange of ideas. That's what Charlie Kirk was doing, right? I mean, he had invited people into this forum. Come up, disagree with me, ask me questions.

The list of political violence. Let's -- we can start in 2011 with the Democratic Congresswoman Gabby Giffords, who was shot in her -- in Tucson, Arizona. Then there's the congressional baseball game in 2017. There was the plot to kidnap the governor, governor of Michigan. There was an assassination attempt against Brett Kavanaugh, Nancy Pelosi's husband was brutally attacked in 2022. Of course, in 2024, there were two attempts against President Trump's

life one, obviously, a bullet hit his ear. There was the arson attack against the Democratic governor of Pennsylvania. There were the Democratic lawmakers in Minnesota who were shot. There was the two that were killed.

And then, of course, we have Charlie Kirk. I mean, this is an incredibly devastating, and I mean, it's an indictment of our political culture.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: It is. And as you read those, I remember very well the Saturday morning that Gabby Giffords was shot in 2011, and that was a moment unlike anything that I had experienced as a reporter in this generation. You know, it was at the very beginning people thought she may have been assassinated. She obviously survived and has gone on to a second life in a gun violence prevention.

But when you read through those, it was 2011 and then 2017, and the frequency in which they occur has changed dramatically. I think that is what is something that we all have to grapple with.

But as so many statements have come in as we sit here today on September 11th, I think the words of former President George W. Bush last night certainly stood out to me. And let me read one of them, he said. Violence and vitriol must be purged from the public square. Members of other political parties are not our enemies. They are our fellow citizens.

I think that should be the North Star for Americans. Never mind Republicans, Democrats, independents.

So, the frequency with which this is occurring is absolutely shocking. And staggering. And, it is, you know, we move on faster than we certainly did in 2011 when that --

HUNT: Yeah.

ZELENY: -- I mean, you were -- you covered Congress. It was a horrifying thing.

BASH: Yeah. I mean, and if I may, the first real presidential campaign that I covered sort of cover to cover was the 2008 presidential campaign. I was covering all the Republican candidates, and then just John McCain.

[16:30:01]

And one of the hallmarks of his campaign, which made some conservatives mad at him, was that he would -- he would push back on people in his town halls who said, Barack Obama, who was his opponent is my opponent, my political opponent, but not my enemy. And that seems almost quaint now. And it isn't President Trump. Rightly talked about the violence against conservatives recently. What was omitted was the violence that has happened against Democrats. Particularly like two months ago, a Minnesota state lawmaker was gunned down, assassinated, and her husband in their home.

This is an epidemic that is nonpartisan, I would argue.

HUNT: Dana, can I also ask you -- I mean, it's interesting you say 2008 was your first cover to cover campaign. The guy that taught me how to cover campaigns, you probably know him. You know him, I'm sure, is that man named David Espo, right, at the "AP". And I remember him telling me the first time I was absolutely legendary reporter. His years, I'm sure, burning out there somewhere. He would hate us talking about him like this.

But his first full campaign was 1980. He covered Ted Kennedy, right? And as we were driving across Iowa together, he was explaining to me that actually this notion that we could cover these campaigns safely was something that was relatively new to him because in 1980, they had spent because -- obviously, John F. Kennedy was shot. Bobby Kennedy was shot.

That said, we came out of right. That was his first campaign, and it was the last one that he covered where that was the reality until now. So that is, you know, this very long period of time, I keep wondering, can we get back?

BASH: I mean, I think that's important. It's always important for us to know our history. And even though the country was founded on the idea of debating policies and politics with our words, there is a pretty horrific through of political violence since the beginning of the United States of America. It's different now for many, many reasons.

Again, the biggest is that we all see it quite literally on our phones, and, and the algorithms, the algorithms, yeah.

ZELENY: That's what I think is different from the 2011 thing. I mean, since then, what has changed is the algorithms, the -- just the fast pace of this. We are united in our divisions.

Many people only know one side of Charlie Kirk on either side, not the whole person that he was. And, Bryan, to your point, 10 years ago, he was 21 years old during that campaign. Think about that 31 years old now. He would have turned 32 in three weeks. It's an unimaginable.

LANZA: Listen, our politics, the phone -- I mean, you know, Americans were being radicalized by this. You know, there's people who -- who are loving people who are now angry, right? You know, we're being radicalized by our politics.

And, you know, guilty. Tell you otherwise. And it's how we play.

ELLEITHEE: It knows no party.

LANZA: Yeah.

ELLEITHEE: It's the radicalization.

LANZA: We've got to have an off ramp. HUNT: Right. Well, and I will also say there is a big difference

between what any of us encounter on our phones, what we encounter here, where we're sitting across the table looking people in the eye, right? And that's what we need more of in our American life.

All right. Coming up next, we're going to go live to Capitol Hill. New reaction coming in on the killing -- to the killing of Charlie Kirk. And of course, a renewed push for more security for lawmakers. We're going to hear from Republican Senator James Lankford of Oklahoma. He'll be here in THE ARENA.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:37:53]

HUNT: All right. Welcome back.

Vice President J.D. Vance has now landed in Utah. And we are told he'll visit with members of Charlie Kirk's family before taking the casket containing his body back to Kirk's home state of Arizona.

We've also got our eye on the White House. President Trump is scheduled to leave any moment for New York. He is planning to attend the Yankees Game this evening.

Joining us now is Republican Senator James Lankford of Oklahoma to reflect more on what this moment means for our country, for our national life.

And, Senator, before the political life you have now, you were a Baptist minister. You have counseled people in their worst moments of grief. You have seen them through great horror. What do you say to your fellow countrymen and women today?

SEN. JAMES LANKFORD (R-OK): Well, in moments of grief and pain as a pastor, you don't show up to really say much of anything other than just to be able to be there while people grieve and vent and struggle with the pain and grief of this kind of loss. As a leader now, to be able to sit with people, we literally try to be able to voice where we are as a country and to be able to say, when will this will get better. But the other one is it only gets better when we get better as a people.

Quite frankly, this is a ongoing trend that we have where we blow off all the different issues that are out there, whether it be on social media or conspiracy theories on things to say. That's just something else that has no effect when it does, when people are dehumanized, when we only see people as what we see on the social media post on it, then we begin to assume that's all that they are, which is false on it.

So, for us as leaders, we're going to walk with people through incredible grief. I'm going to continue to be able to pray for Charlie's family and for his children, and for his wife and for all the people that work at Turning Point USA and Turning Point Faith and so many others that are connected and that believe in the vision of this. We're going to continue to be able to pray with them, but for the rest of the nation, I'm going to turn to everybody and say, as we grieve, we need to turn around and look at it and say, what are we doing to be able to make a more perfect union?

HUNT: Yeah. What do you think we should expect from our leaders at this moment?

[16:40:02]

What do we deserve from our leaders?

LANKFORD: Well, number one, realize leaders are also human beings. That's the challenge that sometimes leaders say and do things and react as just normal people do, that. They react in their grief and their pain and their rage and their frustration of where things are. And so, they turn around and react to those. That's what human beings do.

But for leaders as a whole, I expect them to be able to set a good example for the nation and to be able to have something that you would want your children to say, I want to be able to follow that. I want my kids to be able to grow up and be able to do that. I think that's helpful for us as a nation to be able to have that.

But right now, we also need to give leaders a little bit of space to be able to grieve as well, because there are a lot of leaders that are also grieving, and a lot of them are trying to be able to ask hard questions.

HUNT: Senator, I want to show you some of the prominent members of the MAGA movement, various corners of it. And I think you're right to point out that this is a time of intense emotion and grief in many cases. But I do want to show you a couple things that have been said here in the 24 hours plus since this happened, and I'll ask you about on the other side. Let's watch.

LANKFORD: Okay.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEX JONES, INFOWARS, HOST: We're in a war. The left has been saying, put a bull's eye on Trump, a bull's eye on his supporters.

STEVE BANNON, PODCAST HOST: Charlie Kirk's a casualty of war. We're in this country. We are.

JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST: They are at war with us. Whether we want to accept it or not, they are at war with us. What are we going to do about it? How much political violence are we going to tolerate?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Do you think that there is a -- that this is part of a war?

LANKFORD: So I would say a couple of things. One is one of those particular clips. I actually saw the full statement on it, and it said we are at war and then ended with, we need to be able to fight this the same way Charlie Kirk did. Charlie Kirk did it with words and spoke out against issues and challenges, not with violence.

So, some of those clips aren't actually consistent with the whole context of the clips.

But we are, as a nation, struggling with each other. No doubt this feels like 1968 in some ways, with the violence on campuses, with assassinations and things that happened during that time period, we as a nation turned around and looked at each other and said, how does this actually get better? That's what we've got to be able to do, is to be able to do that.

But we should have strong opinions. Charlie Kirk was outspoken and bombastic with conservatives, but when he spoke to liberals and progressive, he was humble. He was listening. He was intellectually engaging. He wanted them to be able to share his ideas and say, let me share my ideas with you.

He literally was going to people and saying, we should as a nation, talk about hard issues back and forth. And he did that.

But many of the clips that are shown are his clips talking to other conservatives, being able to push them to say, let's live what we believe. But with liberals and progressives, he was often very humble, very engaging, shared his faith freely and said, let's talk about these issues. That's really what we need to get back to. And people that want to be able to honor Charlie Kirk honor by actually engaging with people you disagree with, and to be able to actually have real dialogue with them. That's what he did.

HUNT: And of course, with words, right?

LANKFORD: Right. With words. Right.

HUNT: I absolutely -- I take your point there. Senator James Lankford, thank you very much for being here. I'm grateful for your time.

LANKFORD: You bet. Good to see you again.

HUNT: You, too.

All right. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:47:42]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNSON: Political violence has become all too common in American society, and this is not who we are.

REP. STEVE SCALISE (R-LA), MAJORITY LEADER: It's heartbreaking. And, you know, it makes you angry. But obviously, for me, it also brings back, you know, some tough memories.

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): A profoundly scary, stomach turning point in our history when we are so vulnerable to this kind of violence.

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): The assassination of Charlie Kirk risks an uncorking of political chaos and violence that we cannot risk in America.

(END VIDEO CLPI)

HUNT: Lawmakers on capitol hill, reacting to the news of Charlie Kirks death, also reacting to the significant increase of political violence we have seen in this country in recent years. In 2024 alone, the U.S. capitol police investigated more than 9,000 threats against lawmakers. That is an 83 percent increase from the prior year.

Chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller joins our panel now.

John, thank you very much for being here.

I'd love to hear you know, your latest reporting on this investigation into Charlie Kirk, but also kind of big picture here. We're still looking for this man, this person. There is a fear that he may target others. And then of course, there, as you and I have talked about in other instances, the fear of copycat attacks, that this being out there in this way makes it even more likely that it might spread.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, let's -- we'll start at the ground and we'll work our way up. There was a press conference scheduled with the FBI and the Utah Department of Public Safety that's been canceled because of fast moving events. That is usually a good sign when they have to cancel a press conference where they can tell you what they know and what they don't know, because events are moving quickly. That usually means it's because the investigation is going forward, not backward. So that means there's a sign of some progress.

Progress we've seen already is the release of the pictures. This is a significant development because it takes it out of the realm of the investigators and their leads, and puts it into the realm of the public, where you can crowdsource people who may recognize that individual, may recognize that particular sweatshirt, may recognize those sunglasses as something worn by somebody they know, may come together with personal traits, so that gives them a big advantage.

[16:50:16]

And finally, the recovery of the gun in a wooded area behind that rooftop and that parking lot that we were showing you yesterday as what was the -- believed to be the crime scene, that gun is a Mauser 30-06 type rifle with a long-distance scope on it. Perfectly capable of being the weapon that made that shot in the hands of a trained shooter. One of the things we talked about was, was the shooter careful enough to pick up the shell casing from the roof before he left. But what we learn now is that the expended shell casing is still there in the gun, in the bolt mechanism. It was never ejected, which means the shooter went there, assumed his position on that perch, took his shot, didn't need to take a second shot, so didn't eject the shell casing, walked out the back into the woods, discarded the rifle, and then made his way to another mode of transportation.

HUNT: A pretty remarkable sequence of events there. And, John, can -- I just ask you about the kind of question in terms of security for additional -- I mean, this has generated a lot of questions around. I mean, honestly, I've spoken to many people, some in elected positions, others who, you know, have roles more like what Charlie Kirk had an unofficial role. People who just speak on TV. How real are the security concerns for people right now?

MILLER: Well, they'd have to be very real, Kasie. And the reason I say that is, you know, the sniper as an offender is not someone who is looking to do that up close, shooting and get captured or take their own life at the scene. The sniper, by the nature of the beast, is somebody who works from a long distance in stealth and expects to escape.

One of the debates we had in the Luigi Mangione case, the individual who's charged with killing the head of UnitedHealthcare, Brian Thompson, was, when he got away and was captured in Pennsylvania because someone recognized him from the pictures that were put out, he had the murder weapon with him, allegedly, which is why had he not discarded that? Why had he not moved on?

And one of the theories has always been because he intended to keep going. You know, here you have a sniper who conducted a successful assassination against a high-profile person. The tragedy that it is, but then made his getaway.

So, the obvious question that has to be out there is, is he out there and is he going to strike again?

Now, leaving the gun behind may be one indicator of that. But, you know, this is a person who is obviously a planner and someone who thinks these things through. So, it's a legitimate question. And until he's in custody that thought, that risk, that threat is going to be out there.

HUNT: I want to bring Bryan Lanza back into this conversation.

Bryan, you are obviously part of many of the circles that Charlie Kirk was a part of. There are text chains. There are ongoing conversations. What is the level of concern among people right now about their personal safety and security?

LANZA: It's high. I mean, first of all, they're all hurting and they're all worried about their loved ones. And it's high.

I mean, just -- just this morning, you know, my wife and I had a conversation about, you know, upping my insurance policy because I'm, you know, I'm a surrogate. I'm on TV. You know, you walk everywhere like, these aren't conversations that, you know, people should be having, but that's a conversation of the reality we're in.

And so, I think everybody's, you know, concerned about their safety. You know, we're scared to death of what he just said. A sniper hides. You feel a little bit secure when you see security walk you to the car walk you out. Now I feel less secure, thanks to that.

But we're all concerned. You know, we all have families. We all, you know, want what's best for them. And --

HUNT: Yeah.

LANZA: -- I think the best thing for my family is that, you know, that, you know, I'm not -- be part of any of that violence.

HUNT: Of course.

All right. John Miller, thanks very much for your time today, sir. Really appreciate it.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:59:07]

HUNT: All right. On another note, 24 years ago today, everything changed in Lower Manhattan, in a field in Pennsylvania, and right here in Washington, terrorists took thousands of lives. Americans across the country watched unimaginable horror unfold. For many, me included, 9/11 is a singular searing moment in our collective memory, one that shattered not just families, but our whole understanding of the world and our place in it.

We remember our lives before that Tuesday morning. We remember how different the world felt after that. We, of course, remember those who lost. We lost that day.

It was a national moment of incredible pain, confusion, anger and for the families who lost a loved one that day, that pain still so real 24 years later. But in that moment, in 2001, Americas leaders sought to unite us in our grief and not to divide us in our anger.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Tonight, I ask for your prayers for all those who grieve, for the children whose world's have been shattered, for all whose sense of safety and security has been threatened. This is a day when all Americans, from every walk of life, unite in our resolve for justice and peace. America has stood down enemies before, and we will do so this time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right. "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts right now.