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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
ABC Suspends Kimmel After FCC Pressure Over Kirk Comments; Trump Suggests Pulling Network's Licenses Over Negative Coverage After ABC Suspension Of Kimmel. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired September 18, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:01]
ANDREW YANG, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'd been on one carrier, Verizon, for 25 years and breaking up with them in five minutes, and then in my case, saving over $1,000 a year was like a like a game changing experience. But yes, your phone, your number, everything stays the same.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Good to know, good to know.
Andrew Yang, thanks so much for joining us.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Oh, my God, Boris.
SANCHEZ: Well, I mean --
KEILAR: Of course.
SANCHEZ: Of course. Anytime. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I like my phone. I want to keep it.
KEILAR: Yeah. Well, you get to.
SANCHEZ: Hey, thanks so much for joining us.
THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now.
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt.
Welcome to THE ARENA. It's great to have you with us on this Thursday.
As we come on the air, President Trump appears to be threatening television stations across the country, speaking aboard Air Force One, he said this quote, "I read someplace that the networks were 97 percent against me." He later added, "I would think maybe their license should be taken away," end quote.
This just after ABC announced the indefinite suspension of Jimmy Kimmel's late night show, days after he made a comment about reaction to the death of Charlie Kirk.
Here's how President Trump reacted to the news of Kimmel's suspension earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Jimmy Kimmel was fired because he had bad ratings more than anything else, and he said a horrible thing about a great gentleman known as Charlie Kirk. And Jimmy Kimmel is not a talented person. He had very bad ratings, and they should have fired him a long time ago.
So, you know, you can call that free speech or not. He was fired for lack of talent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Kimmel has yet to comment publicly. ABC did not say why his show was suspended. Still, it comes after Nexstar. That is one of the ABC affiliate groups that airs Kimmel's show, announced yesterday that they would not air future episodes of Kimmel. Just so happens that Nexstar is trying to merge with another media company, Tegna.
And in order to do that, they need approval from this man, the chairman of the Federal Communications Commission.
Yesterday, Brendan Carr described Kimmel's comments as, quote, the sickest conduct possible and suggested that he might revoke ABC's broadcasting license. Here's what he said yesterday before Kimmel was suspended.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRENDAN CARR, FCC CHAIRMAN: They have a license granted by us at the FCC, and that comes with it an obligation to operate in the public interest. And we can get into some ways that we've been trying to reinvigorate the public interest and some changes that we've seen. But frankly, when you see stuff like this, I mean, look, we can do this the easy way or the hard way. These companies can find ways to change conduct and take action, frankly, on Kimmel or, you know, there's going to be additional work for FCC ahead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So, what was the comment that Carr is focused on here that President Trump says was a horrible thing?
Here is what Kimmel said on Monday night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY KIMMEL, TALK SHOW HOST: We hit some new lows over the weekend, with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them, and doing everything they can to score political points from it. In between the finger pointing, there was grieving.
On Friday, the White House flew the flags at half-staff, which got some criticism, but on a human level, you can see how hard the president is taking this. REPORTER: My condolences on the loss of your friend Charlie Kirk. May
I ask, sir, personally, how are you holding up over the last day and a half, sir?
TRUMP: I think very good. And by the way, right there, you see all the trucks? They've just started construction of the new ballroom for the White House, which is something they've been trying to get, as you know, for about 150 years. And it's going to be a beauty.
KIMMEL: Yes. He's at the fourth stage of grief, construction.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right, let's get off the sidelines, head into THE ARENA.
Our panel is here, and we're also joined by CNN chief media analyst Brian Stelter.
Brian, let's go to what we saw at the top here. This -- these new comments from the president seeming to suggest that networks seeming to suggest that networks licenses could be pulled off the air over negative coverage of him. What do you make of that?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Every network needs one nerd who knows about FCC licenses. And I am your nerd, Kasie.
I have studied this because I've been interested in it for years, and here's what I want everybody to know about licenses, okay? Before President Trump returned to the Oval Office, licensing was a boring thing the FCC did every eight years, every local station in the country has a license. It's renewed every eight years, and we have not seen a license renewal be rejected for decades.
So, essentially, once you have a license, you keep your license. And yes, it can be time consuming to do the paperwork to get it renewed. But the FCC historically has not been in the business of challenging licenses.
[16:05:02]
In fact, I spoke with experts last year who said even if Trump wanted to take away station licenses, it would be so time consuming, it would be tied up in the courts for so long, it would never even happen during his four years in office. So that's the context for Trump's latest threats.
However, is it possible that the legal landscape has changed? Is it possible that Congress, Republicans in Congress, want to make it easier to revoke licenses? I think all of those possibilities have to be considered because Trump is being so loud and so serious about these license threats, and because his FCC chairman, Brendan Carr, is showing a willingness to not just talk tough, but to use his public platform to bully these media companies. So that's the reality about licenses. They are hard to revoke. But
what Brendan Carr and President Trump are doing, they're using their bully pulpits to pressure media companies into changing content.
And it feels to me, Kasie, you can picture the American media, picture we're all stuck in an elevator together. And it feels like every week, every month, we're going a level lower and lower and lower. We're in an elevator and every time Trump sues a news outlet, every time he gains a settlement, every time he threatens the licenses, every time Disney or Paramount capitulate, we're sinking lower and lower. And here's the problem, we don't know how much lower this can go.
HUNT: Well, Brian, we had one major figure in the media landscape weigh in on where we are. Perhaps, to use your analogy, categorizing kind of what floor were on, on your elevator. And this is the former late night host, David Letterman, who was speaking at a conference earlier today. Let's watch. And then we'll talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID LETTERMAN, FORMER LATE NIGHT HOST: We all see where this is going, correct? It's managed media. And it's no good. It's silly. It's ridiculous. And you can't go around firing somebody because you're fearful or trying to suck up to an authoritarian criminal administration in the Oval Office. That's just not how this works.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Worth noting. Letterman sitting there with Jeffrey Goldberg, the editor in chief of "The Atlantic" magazine.
Brian, what do you make of it?
STELTER: Well, we know what President Trump wants to do. He wants to silence his critics. He wants to stop dissent. The question now becomes, what do figures like David Letterman do? What do journalists like Jeffrey Goldberg do?
What do networks like CNN and ABC and CBS do? ABC is under a lot of pressure right now, a lot of angry Kimmel fans that want to hear from the network. We've heard nothing new from ABC today, but we're already hearing from showrunners, producers in Hollywood who say they don't want to work with Disney anymore because of the action against Kimmel. So, I'm really struck by that.
I'm also struck by some breaking news in the last few minutes, Kasie, Jon Stewart, who normally only hosts "The Daily Show" once a week on Mondays, he's coming back to the show tonight. He's hosting his Comedy Central program tonight because he wants to weigh in on this matter.
So, we are seeing some loud, some vocal voices trying to push back against the president's threats. But, you know, frankly, it's one of those situations where with free speech, with your rights to free speech, you either use them or you lose them.
HUNT: All right, Brian, stand by for us. You're going to be part of our panel here.
We're also of our panel here. We're also joined by CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig, CNN special correspondent Jamie Gangel is here. The former Democratic New York Congressman Max Rose and senior adviser to the Trump 2024 campaign, Bryan Lanza.
We are also rolling out something new here on THE ARENA, on the left side of your screen for parts of our show, you're going to see our ARENA text chain. You're going to get some additional analysis from some of our top reporters. You can see that conversation has already started.
So, if you're one of these people that watches on mute, this is for you. And we're going to continue, of course, to have our usual conversation here.
And, Jamie Gangel, I do want to start with you, and I want to put up what The Drudge Report currently has on their home page e or did earlier today and double-checked to see that it's exactly still there. But it looks like this.
They call Kimmel an ABC martyr, network under government control. "The View" censored. Trump orders remaining late night hosts removed.
I just think it's worth noting, removed. I just think it's worth noting, you know, Matt Drudge, longtime conservative media figure, not been a fan of Trump for quite some time. But as Brian noted, we are at a very difficult moment.
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: I would say this. I'd add a word to what David Letterman said, and that's dangerous moment.
The number of calls that I got from people for the first time who said this is too far, from both Hollywood people, media people. Look, breaking news, presidents don't like being made being made fun of. Ask Bill Clinton, ask George W. Bush, but they don't normally cancel late night shows.
This is not in a vacuum. Donald Trump doesn't like Stephen Colbert. His contract doesn't get renewed.
[16:10:00]
He doesn't like Jimmy Kimmel. He's gone.
You know, what is next? The FCC chairman, Brendan Carr, said earlier today on CNBC, we're not done yet. This has a serious chilling effect on freedom of speech.
HUNT: Elie Honig, I think it's worth noting. I mean, basically, Brendan Carr's claim is that the problem with what Kimmel did is not making a joke about the president, but rather characterizing MAGA, and the way that that Kimmel talked about the shooter and the MAGA movement together.
But we heard Brian talk about just how difficult it would be to actually do some of these things. What is your perspective from the legal side, because there's what happens in the courts and then there's what these businesses are doing to, you know, ahead of it, exactly?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: There is a fair debate to be had, and I'm sure we'll have it here today about whether Jimmy Kimmel's comments were benign or malicious, good or bad, evil or whatever. I'm not a fan, but fine.
However, the question really is, who gets to decide and where the First Amendment line gets crossed is when there is government coercion. There have been multiple Supreme Court opinions. Other federal court opinions over the last several years saying when the government says we don't' like this speech and if you don't fix it, we will use governmental power through the FCC, the CDC, the White House, what have you. That is where the First Amendment line is crossed.
But here's the practical problem to Jamie's point and to somebody on the chain, I'll incorporate the chain, somebody there said there's a -- there's a chain reaction here. The problem is who's going to actually have this fight? Because as long as the ABCs and the Nexstars of the world or certain law firms, or certain universities are not standing up and they're either settling or they're capitulating, we're not going to have that fight where somebody is going to go to court, and there may be, I believe there would be a ruling saying this does violate the First Amendment.
And so, what does that lead us to? Donald Trump's rant just now on Air Force One, where he says, well, here's the hit list, going down what's next and next? So, we can talk about. And there is a First Amendment problem, but until someone stands up and becomes a plaintiff, we're not going to get a resolution in the courts.
HUNT: So, speaking of a list of, you know, what maybe next, Scott Jennings, a contributor here at CNN, also hosts a radio show. And the FCC chairman, Brendan Carr, was just this afternoon on that radio show, and he spoke a little bit about "The View", which is, of course, that morning talk program on ABC, the same network that airs Kimmel.
Let's watch a little bit of what Carr had to say about say about "The View" with Scott.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARR: I would assume you could make the argument that "The View" is a bona fide news show. But I'm not so sure about that, and I think it's worthwhile to have the FCC look into whether "The View," incentives of the programs that you have, still qualify as bona fide news programs and therefore exempt from the equal opportunity regime that Congress has put in place.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Now, I think Brian Stelter is still with us before I want to bring in our Democrat and Republican to weigh in on this for a second.
STELTER: Yeah.
HUNT: But, Brian, I just want to walk our viewers through what this means, right? Because it's a little bit -- if you're not really familiar with it, since you're our FCC nerd, what he's talking about is often shorthanded as the equal time rule, right? He is basically saying that they might look and say that "The View" is required to give equal time to any candidate because it is not a, quote/unquote, bona fide news program.
What could that mean in terms of them going after "The View"?
STELTER: Right. And Carr has used this rule to target other networks and other shows as well. He did this around NBC's "SNL" during the fall campaign season. You know, a lot of these FCC rules and regulations, they exist, and they have not been applied. They haven't been tested. They haven't been tried in many years.
Carr is trying to flex his muscles and use his power, which is limited, but use his power in new and unprecedented ways. And this is one of those examples, you know, talking about a random -- I love "The View", actually, but a random daytime talk show, picking on the anti- Trump hosts, trying to find a way to get under the skin of ABC, trying to find a way to pressure the network to soften the content.
That's what we see Carr doing in real time, out loud, you know? At least to his credit, he's not doing this behind the scenes. We can all see it happening in public view. And that's really part of the point.
You know, he doesn't have as much power to actually take actions. You know, he can open investigation, for example, of ABC. He can kind of legally torture ABC for a while. But there's relatively little he can do action-wise.
I think Elie would agree with me. It's much more about a war of words that Carr is engaging in, and right now, he's winning in some cases. "The View" did not mention Kimmel today. They stayed away from this altogether.
HUNT: Yeah. Which is unlike them. I think if any of you are familiar with the -- especially the top of the show.
[16:15:00]
Bryan Lanza, you worked for Donald Trump. You're a longtime conservative. Jamie used the word dangerous to describe the situation here. Do you think that that's an accurate description?
BRYAN LANZA, SENIOR ADVISER, TRUMP 2024 CAMPAIGN: No. I mean, listen, I think at the end of the day, you know, what led to Jimmy Kimmel sort of being canceled is, you know, his ratings were poor, the same thing that sort of led to James Colbert. You know, Trump had issues with these late night shows in the first term, and none of these things took place, right?
And so now, you know, it seems to be an easy scapegoat. Trump has an issue. Now is the time we're going to cancel your contract. But the reality is, is, you know, with the special case with Jimmy
Kimmel, you know, he willingly went on to his network, misrepresented, lied, some would say, about what took place with this, this assassin who killed Charlie Kirk. And it's an incredibly sensitive moment to my side, to my base. And they're reacting -- the way they're reacting. I would say part of the reason they're reacting is because they're hurt, because of what happened to Charlie, but also what's happening to free speech.
This is an individual who was gunned down for opening debate, and then you have, you know, you have Kimmel trying to sort of --
HUNT: But isn't Kimmel also speaking --
LANZA: Yeah. But he's entitled to have his speech but his employer says differently. Your employer says differently, too. You're not entitled to say whatever you want at any time you want. You have restrictions on what you can say, what you willing to tolerate. Clearly, Nexstar had boundaries that they think Jimmy Kimmel went too far, and they exercised their right.
It wasn't government that shut down. It was the employer that said, this is just too far for us, and that's what's going to happen. A lot of these late night comedy, you know, comedians have gone too far sometimes to try to trigger their audience, trying to create this aura of still division. And, you know, there's and that leads to lower ratings.
HUNT: Is the effect not the same though, Congressman?
MAX ROSE (D), FORMER U.S. CONGRESSMAN: This is all absurd. I mean, MAGA at this point are the snowflakes who are adherents to cancel culture. Who would have thought we'd see this day? But here's the most shocking thing about all of this since Charlie Kirk's murder, the media has, if anything, shown a rightward bias, not a leftward bias.
In the immediate aftermath of Charlie Kirk's murder, J.D. Vance canceled his appearance at Ground Zero, the Ground Zero site, on 9/11, in downtown Manhattan to go pick up Charlie Kirk's podcast. If a Democratic vice president had done that, cancel the ground zero appearance on 9/11 to go pick up the podcast of a youth movement leader and podcast host, he would have been lambasted, or she would have been lambasted by the media.
Donald Trump ordered the flags at half-mast for nearly five days after Charlie Kirk was murdered. That is not given to fallen combat soldiers. The pope was literally not given that. The media never said a thing.
So, everybody has shown intense sensitivity to exactly that pain that you mentioned, except for the leaders of the MAGA movement who are using Charlie Kirk's death and Charlie Kirk's murder to push a political divide and advance their own political movement. And that, to me, is the most disrespectful thing one can possibly do in the aftermath of someone's tragic murder.
HUNT: Bryan, thoughts?
LANZA: I just fully disagree. I think you know, my side, my friends who are friends with Charlie are hurting and they don't see, you know, and they don't see the politics that everybody is trying to inject into. Sure. You know, they're given some latitude with the grieving process, and we're thankful that some have given us that space.
But the overwhelming majority of the left which your side is from, has not given us that space to deal with it. They've actually been more than offensive and the media sort of -- and Kimmel represent that far left that's been offensive to our side as we try to grieve Charlie's death.
HUNT: Again, the big picture question, whether that means that Jimmy Kimmel should lose his job over it.
LANZA: He's not funny. That's the problem.
HUNT: Elie Honig, thank you very much. Brian, thank you very much as well. The rest of the panel is going to stand by.
Coming up next, Senator Mark Warner will be here live in THE ARENA as new reaction comes in from Capitol Hill to Jimmy Kimmel's suspension. Some Democrats pushing to subpoena the head of the FCC, Republicans mostly brushing it off.
The FCC, Republicans mostly brushing it off.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): This isn't the government, Manu. This is -- this is Disney.
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the FCC was threatening taking action against ABC. Brendan Carr was out publicly, warning --
HAWLEY: The FCC guy.
RAJU: He's the chairman.
HAWLEY: Well, he says he doesn't like it. I mean, you know, blah, blah, blah.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): It's not a question of whether you agree with Mr. Kimmel or disagree with Mr. Kimmel. The point is one of the government not coming in and making decisions about who's speech gets heard.
HAWLEY: It's a financial decision for Disney. REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: This a matter of
ABC's leadership. It doesn't have anything to do with Congress.
REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): You can have two thoughts in your head at the same time. You can say Kirk's death was awful and he should be with his kids today. But you can also make a joke about the president and the way that he's reacting to it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Reaction from lawmakers to Jimmy Kimmel's indefinite removal from ABC's airwaves falling predictably along party removal from ABC's airwaves falling predictably along party lines today. President Trump now suggesting networks licenses could be pulled if they air mostly negative coverage of him.
Joining us now to discuss, Democratic Senator Mark Warner of Virginia. Of course, vice chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee.
Senator, thanks very much for being here. You also, much for being here. You also, of course, have the distinction of having led companies in the telecommunications space, and you have a unique understanding of the significance here.
Do you believe this was just a business decision for ABC? What does this mean for the country?
SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA): Kasie, I'm not sure. And I heard your earlier segment and listen, I respect those people who are still grieving about what was obviously a brutal murder, and political violence can never be tolerated and still grieving Charlie Kirk.
[16:25:08]
But you're right. I was in the telecom business. I was in businesses that had been was in businesses that had been licensed by the FCC, and I do fear and I've heard the reports, I want to do some more due diligence on my own. But if the FCC chairman is threatening to pull licenses or the president of the United States is saying, well, if a network doesn't agree with me, I'm going to pull their right to exist, because these are public airwaves.
And the government, at the end of the day, sets the terms. And if the government can set the terms the government can set the terms the president or not, that puts us in -- frankly, America unchartered territory.
HUNT: Did this ever -- anything like this ever happen when you were in this space? I mean, how unusual is this?
WARNER: I was -- I was in the '80s and the 9 -- early '90s. I had never seen this. I read about these kind of activities, and I'm not even sure back -- we go back to the McCarthy era. There were ever threats on pulling, you know, broadcast licenses. But I'm not an expert on that. But I do, at least in my tenure in business and now in public life,
this is not the way. There are businesses that obviously make decisions all the time about performance of their employees. That is a right.
But the idea that you're actually threatening your -- basically your basically your right to exist as a broadcaster, which is removed if the FCC pulls the licenses and somehow the president now saying if you don't agree with me, we're going to pull licenses, that's some -- that's pretty scary.
And then again, when you combine that -- with what I've been talking about earlier today, some of the undermining of the integrity of our intelligence community, I've said this before. If this doesn't bother you, if this doesn't seem, you know, not normal, then I don't know what's going to -- I'm not sure what's going to really shake you up.
HUNT: Can I ask you about that? I mean, I saw you spoke on the floor about. And in particular, there were security clearances that were pulled that were pulled recently, among other things that you pointed out, I am interested in your thinking about how this ties together, because it together, because it really is about what we are able to know as a government, as citizens, in each of these contexts.
WARNER: Well, one of the things, you know, our First Amendment right, and a free press kind of cornerstone of what led to the creation of the country and, you know, in the modern time, a lot of that communication is done at least kind of 20th century wise over the public airwaves. And if licenses are being threatened, that being threatened, that puts us unchartered territory.
You know, literally, since, you know, the end of the Second World War, we've had an intelligence community that at the end of the day, it's job was to speak truth to power. And boy, we've screwed up at times. We didn't pick up all the clues around 9/11. Clearly, you know, we got the intelligence was corrupted around the war in Iraq.
And the irony of this is Tulsi Gabbard, who's now the director of national director of national intelligence, who is -- appears to be waging a vendetta be waging a vendetta against the integrity of the intelligence community, she said that she would never do that. She cited the Iraq war and the corruption of intelligence and that is happening I fear, almost on a regular basis, where intelligence professionals are driven out of their jobs, because driven out of their jobs because if they don't come up with an assessment that fits the political talking points, I can't imagine the level of uncertainty amongst young intelligence professionals who would want to go into that work where we need smart, young people, bad guys are around the world.
If they're somehow there -- if their assessments don't meet the current political wishes of the White House, that makes us less safe. I've already said on air a number of times, I fear that our allies are not going to share information, particularly around Russia and Ukraine at this point, because, you know, Ms. Gabbard, again, is so adamantly, appears to be against Ukraine in so many ways. And we are scaring away the ability to speak truth to power.
And if we lose some of our First Amendment and we lose the ability of the intelligence community to tell the truth, no matter how inconvenient, then we are going into, again, uncharted territory.
HUNT: And sir, this is, of course, what has set America apart for so many years and made it a place where people want to come to do business, to learn. It's made us competitive.
WARNER: Right.
HUNT: It puts us at the center of everything. Is that in jeopardy?
WARNER: Well, Kasie, at the end of the day, if we're not, you know, as people said, that bright shining city on a hill, we're not viewed as the good guys -- you know, for all of our economic and military strength, that sense that at the end of the day that we were going to do the right thing, that's probably been our greatest strength.
[16:30:10]
And, you know, back on the intelligence committee, we have people that have no job, couldn't even get a job in the Trump administration. This 9/11 denier Islamophobe, you know, Laura Loomer appearing to call the shots and driving out, you know, she claimed the scalp of the NSA director. She claimed, and she's equal opportunity abuser. She claimed to push out the first national security advisor to President Trump. She obviously tried to restrict my ability to do oversight.
This is just not normal. And what I keep appealing. I know so many of my Republican Senate colleagues, I know they love our country, but they can't continue to say, Mark, you're right. And then be silent. That is, you know, or we will wake up one day, and the things that have made us unique will have slowly been will have slowly been slipped away. And in a world where, you know, one of the things that know, one of the things that breaks my heart more than anything when I hear people around the world starting to say, you know what? China is a more dependable partner than America.
HUNT: Really stark line.
Senator Mark Warner, thank you very much for your time, sir. Really appreciate having you. I hope you'll come back.
WARNER: Thank you, Kasie.
HUNT: All right. Coming up next here, how Jimmy Kimmel's suspension is impacting what's historically been a traditional bipartisan comedy space and whether being funny now comes with a prize.
Plus, two different messages from the president on Russia's war in Ukraine, hinting today there's some, quote, good news coming, while also expressing frustration with Vladimir Putin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's let me down. He's really let me down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:36:03]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We at SNL would like to say to Donald Trump, we have been with you all along.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have never wavered in our support of you, even when others doubted you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Every single person on this stage believed in you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every single person on this stage voted for you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because we see ourselves in you. We look at you and think, that's me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: That was SNL's first cold open after last year's election in November 2024. That, of course, a departure from, you know, their usual posture, bipartisan skewering over many decades, the FCC chair, Brendan Carr, said that Jimmy Kimmel's Monday remarks constituted, quote, the sickest conduct possible.
Now, of course, he was talking about how Kimmel, in his view, misled Americans about the nature of the killing. But it does raise the question what kind of chilling effect might what happened here have on America's long tradition of jokes mocking political leaders from every side of every issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And whatever you dig up, I promise you I will lie about it. I will do this. I will do this. I will do them both together.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will instead ask each candidate to sum up in a single word, the best argument for his candidacy.
Governor Bush?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Strategery.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I can see Russia from my house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nice to meet you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jerome Smith.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, brother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's up fam? You know this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got to hit him with a no joke. Here's the deal. Let me be clear.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: CNN reporter Lisa France joins us now.
Lisa, I know you've been trying to talk to your sources in the entertainment world across Hollywood. What effect does this having?
LISA RESPERS FRANCE, CNN ENTERTAINMENT REPORTER: Use the proper word, Kasie. Chilling. People are freaked out. You know, there's concern. We're hearing from comedians who are in support of Jimmy Kimmel.
And let's be very clear. In some ways, Jimmy Kimmel is almost like the mayor of Hollywood. He's the only late-night show that films in Los Angeles. He is a man who is not afraid to cry. He's a man who started on, you know, the man show before he launched his late night show in 2003. And he is beloved.
You don't get to host award shows, including the Academy Awards, if you're not popular. So, people feel like if a Jimmy Kimmel can't make a joke about the president, then who can? And so, people are really concerned. They're really upset.
And, you know, Jimmy Kimmel, like I said, is like someone who even the Fonz, Henry Winkler, you know, an actor, took to social media to talk about his humor and his insight and about the respect that he has. You know, he said he is a most wonderful, but he said his humor, his insights are important to keep us showing us keep us showing us who we are.
So, you know, this is a man who has used his platform to advocate for health care, telling the very private and personal story in 2017 of his newborn who had a congenital heart defect, who had to have open heart surgery. He cried about that. He cried about, you know, earlier this year when the horrible wildfires happened and he had to be evacuated, along with many of the people who work for him.
So, in a lot of ways, Jimmy Kimmel is viewed in Hollywood and by the public as almost like an everyman. So for him to get this type of suspension is very, very worrying to a lot of people, Kasie.
HUNT: All right. Lisa France, appreciate your reporting.
[16:40:00]
Thanks very much for being here.
FRANCE: Thank you.
HUNT: All right. Our panel is here and we're joined by the former Republican senator from Arizona, Jeff Flake, also former ambassador to Turkey.
Sir, thanks very much for being here.
JEFF FLAKE (R-AZ), FORMER U.S. SENATOR: Thanks.
HUNT: Look, this -- what Lisa was saying there, I mean, she had Henry Winkler saying something in public. There are so many people right now who don't want to say anything in public at all about this.
I mean, as someone who has been -- and you've been a conservative your entire career, not pro-Trump, of course, by any stretch. But what does this represent, this turn in terms of our national journey with President Trump?
FLAKE: Well, it's unbelievable to me that so-called conservatives and Republicans are okay with, you know, those who say they believe in limited government with the FCC, a government agency, telling basically, you know, broadcast stations what they can broadcast and what they can't, what kind of limited government is that?
And I just have to say, my name is Jeff Flake. I come from Snowflake, Arizona. It's a town that I grew up in, and I'm less of a snowflake than that. I mean, , that's -- you're just, you know, as a conservative growing up, that the legacy media is leaning liberal. You accept that. Talk radio leans, you know, conservative, you accept that.
But you don't use the arm of government to go in and dictate what they broadcast. That's just a slippery slope that I think, and I hope that conservatives say that's not where we want to go.
HUNT: So one conservative that we can hear from on this is actually Charlie Kirk himself, who, of course, has been widely noted that he was gunned down when he was engendering debate. He was having debate with people that he disagreed with, that he agreed with, right?
So, he did an interview with Fox at one point where he talked about comedy, what it means to be made fun of. I won't characterize it. Let's watch it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLIE KIRK, CONSERVATIVE ACTIVIST: I look at this as a badge of honor. I laughed and I chuckled. I couldn't believe, honestly, at first, like, come on. Believe, honestly, at first, to be some sort of A.I. troll, but turns out it's real. I'm excited to watch it because, look, we as conservatives need excited to be able to take a joke, right? We shouldn't take ourselves so seriously. That's something that the left has always done to great detriment to themselves in the movement.
And look, again, they're professional comedians. They're probably going to roast me. And I think that's fine. I think that's probably one of the problems that we've had in our politics, is that people can't take a joke.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Charlie Kirk himself on that episode of "South Park", saying, it's one of the problems. We can't take a joke.
FLAKE: Well said, well said. And I mean all of us mourn his death. I was on that campus the day before he was killed. I went to, you know, to Arizona the next day, went to the memorial at Turning Point USA. This has struck a nerve among Arizonans, struck a nerve among Arizonans and across the country. It's a horrible thing.
But to use that, you know, as conservatives to then go after the media, it's just not right.
HUNT: Congressman, I want to put up what "South Park" actually put up last night, their show did not air. They did not say why, but they did say apparently when you do everything at the last minute, sometimes you don't get it done. And this one's on us. We didn't get it done.
Thanks to Comedy Central and "South Park" fans for being so understanding. Tune in next week. Trey Parker and Matt Stone, of course, the creators of "South Park", and again, the environment is such that -- I mean, very many questions about -- they say I'm not sure if they've ever not finished an episode in time before, but it suggests that they were making some last-minute change.
ROSE: The dog ate my homework excuse for content creators. First of all, here's the crazy thing. I've never met a politician who didn't want to be talked about. Every other politician I've ever met, they're --
HUNT: Donald Trump first among them --
ROSE: Yeah, right.
HUNT: -- of this criteria, right?
ROSE: I mean, every other politician I've met, what their biggest fear is, you would confirm this. Their biggest fear is to biggest fear is to not be the subject of the joke. To be to be ignored. That's the first shocking thing about this whole conversation.
The second thing is, though, one could argue that a big reason why the Republicans were so successful in 2024 is because Democrats went too far in the direction of cancel culture. Everyone -- we have to be so afraid about what we say. Those days seem like so distant now. So I'm a little dumbfounded here as well about the political calculation itself. I can't think of one independently minded voter who would say, I'm with MAGA now that they're going after free speech on TV.
LANZA: I just think it's the environment, right? Like, look at Target. You know, Target's received a boycott, right, as a result of backing away from whatever liberal agenda they wanted to promote. The liberals are mad at them. The conservatives are mad at them for going that route.
Like this at the end of day, this is no different than the boycott of Nexstar, saying if you're going to go down this route, you know, viewers who are ultimately the purchasers of this media are going to say, we're passing, we're not interested. And, you know, boycotts --
HUNT: But it's another thing for people to do it. And it's another thing for the government to do it. It's very different thing.
LANZA: But the government complain -- I mean, listen, governments complain about things all the time.
I might have a problem with President Trump complaining about --
HUNT: We're not going to talk about complaining here. Go ahead.
FLAKE: There's a difference between government complaining and people complaining about the coverage they get. Members of Congress do that all the time. The president does that all the time. That goes with the territory.
But for the chairman of the commission, the FCC, to say that you can do it the easy way or the hard way, that's not complaining. That's threatening government action. That's what's objectionable. I mean, say Jimmy Kimmel has no talent. Maybe he does. Maybe he doesn't, let the market decide.
LANZA: And they've decided. Their ratings are so slow.
FLAKE: Ratings are low, but let them cancel them, let the market cancel them. Don't use the FCC to say that he should be taken off the air.
LANZA: But I think it's unreasonable to think that Donald Trump picked up the phone and said, you know, car, I need you to put the muscle on the -- on these guys. You know, Carr, you know, Brendan Carr has always had his agenda. It's always been in front of the president on certain issues. If you look at ahead of the president on China policy, he's certainly go ahead of the president on China policy.
GANGEL: I just have to stop you, Donald Trump has made it very, very clear, over and over and over again how he feels about Jimmy Kimmel. Brendan Carr knew exactly where he stood. To bring back the boycott question I think it's going to be interesting to see now. Viewers will they boycott Disney? Will they boycott ABC? Will there be reaction?
We don't know yet, but we are in unprecedented times and we're only nine months in to --
HUNT: For that -- for that reason, we're going to push pause on this conversation. But given our unprecedented times, we're just going to continue on the other side of the break. Don't go anywhere.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:51:36]
HUNT: So, we were just talking about how politicians greatest fear generally is not being talked about. And you can see there Donald Trump himself has used late night TV to his own political ends over the years. Reaction, of course, pouring in now to the suspension of Jimmy Kimmel.
As we've been on the air, we have heard more from former legendary late night host David Letterman.
Let's watch a little bit more about what he has had to say about Kimmel.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LETTERMAN: This is a misery. And in the world of somebody who is an authoritarian, maybe a dictatorship, sooner or later everyone is going to be touched. But this is me for 30 years. I did this for a living. Everybody sort of understood in the name of humor, in the name of commenting on what's going on in the world, cultural events, why not?
And by the way, the institution of the president of the United States ought to be bigger than a guy doing a talk show. You know, it just -- really ought to be bigger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Our panel is back.
Senator Flake, what's your reaction to what Letterman had to say there?
FLAKE: Yeah, yeah. I mean, every politician, as is mentioned you know, you mark the time that you were parodied on "Saturday Night Live", that's a -- that's a highlight. No matter what they said.
HUNT: Yeah. Mocking you on SNL like you've made it. Like that's good.
FLAKE: That's exactly it. So, yeah. And presidents use these platforms during the campaign. But then when you're president, then you don't want the criticism. Hey, if the First Amendment works, when you're doing a campaign, it ought to work when you're president as well.
And so, that's what's bothersome is that, this, this -- I don't know, this fear of getting parodied and that comes with the territory. And it's disturbing to watch this.
HUNT: Well, I will say that the word fear seems to really, Jamie, capture the moment that we are in conservatives, certainly. I mean, Brian has spoken to it.
GANGEL: Right.
HUNT: Those who watch Charlie Kirk be gunned down fearing for the -- themselves, their own families, for the country, but also others fearing what would happen in reaction to what we saw.
GANGEL: Absolutely. So, you know, Bob Woodward called his first book on Donald Trump "Fear" because he was actually an answer that Trump gave in an interview. Woodward said, what do you see power as? And Trump said, I'm paraphrasing slightly here. You know, I hate to use this word, but fear.
And these companies, you know, we have heard this was a business decision for CBS with Colbert and with Disney. But it's also true that Disney could have said, we will see you in court. We will fight this. And Brian Stelter said, it's hard to take, you know, licenses away.
These companies are scared of this hurting their business. Disney caved to Trump. They caved quickly, as did some law firms and universities. I think there is a question here of when -- if people are going to stand up and fight in these -- fight back.
HUNT: We have 30 seconds.
ROSE: First of all, the person or the family that should be most afraid right now is the Murdoch family, because there's a huge contingent in the Democratic Party that says when we take power, we're going to send this right back to you.
[16:55:08]
And I think that's something worth considering.
The other point here is that the biggest weakness that the Republican Party has right now is there's an enthusiasm gap. Their base is not motivated enough. They are using this moment. And it is so sad to motivate their base by going after a comedian who in the end didn't even say anything that bad. This is politics and it's wrong.
HUNT: All right. With that, we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HUNT: All right. Thanks to my panel for being here. Really appreciate all of you. Thanks to you at home for watching as well.
If you missed any of today's show, you can always catch up by listening to our podcast. Scan the QR code below. You can follow along wherever you get your podcasts. You can also follow us on X and Instagram. We are @TheArenaCNN.
Phil Mattingly is standing by for "THE LEAD".
Hi, Phil.
