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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
A.G. Bondi Battles Dem Senators In Contentious Hearing; Trump Suggests Some Federal Workers Don't Deserve Back Pay As Government Shutdown Nears One-Week Mark; Now: DHS Secretary Noem Visits ICE Facility In Portland. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired October 07, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:02]
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: So, fans of LeBron James and the NBA in general had a bit of a maybe a heart stopping moment or a bit of concern today.
ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: We were all wondering.
SANCHEZ: Yeah. He posted this thing online talking about a second decision coming today. Well, it turned out just to be an ad.
HILL: I think we got played, Boris. I'm going to say it. I'm saying it out loud.
So yes, fueling retirement rumors, the price of Lakers tickets skyrocketed when we learned there was going to be an announcement today, harkening back, of course, to his 2010 announcement to join the Miami Heat, Boris, during a live TV special titled "The Decision". In the end, it was an ad for Hennessey.
SANCHEZ: Great first decision. Second decision, I don't know.
THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now.
(MUSIC)
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's wonderful to have you with us on this Tuesday.
Pam Bondi coming out swinging. The attorney general testifying today before the Senate Judiciary Committee.
And while it's, of course, not unusual for Trump administration -- Trump administration officials to be, let's say, combative. Bondi started from there and then got pretty personal with Democratic senators who questioned her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAM BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL: You know, Senator Schiff --
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): Was she -- was she right?
BONDI: -- if you worked for me, you would have been fired.
Senator Blumenthal, I -- I cannot believe that you would accuse me of impropriety when you lied about your military service.
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): I am --
BONDI: You were also on video outside the White House protesting with a group called CASA, where antifa members were. Does that mean you're a member of antifa?
Excuse me, Senator, you were ordering this proceeding now. You sure didn't have order when you stormed Secretary Noem at a press conference --
SEN. ALEX PADILLA (D-CA): Mr. Chairman --
BONDI: -- in California, did you?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Sources inside the White House tell CNN the administration is pleased with Bondi's performance. One person calling it a, quote, masterclass. It's probably for an audience of one. Let's be real.
Now let's walk through everything the attorney general has on her plate right now. Lawsuits against National Guard deployments, hundreds of thousands of immigration arrests, the indictment of a former FBI director, and, of course, the Jeffrey Epstein saga. But when pressed on those stories and others, Bondi again seemed to have tailored that performance for an audience of one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BONDI: I wish you love Chicago as much as you hate President Trump. My agents are on the street working without a paycheck because your party voted to shut down the federal government.
James Comey was indicted by one of the most liberal grand juries in the United States.
We saw the Biden administration weaponize the entire Justice Department. All of the law enforcement agencies against Donald Trump, against his family members, against his friends for years and years. And that weaponization is over.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Let's get off the sidelines and head into THE ARENA.
Our panel will be here.
And we also have CNN senior justice correspondent Evan Perez.
Evan, this hearing, of course, showed, illustrated the divided nature of our politics and the new way that this Justice Department is operating. EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Kasie. And,
you know, this was a hearing about weaponization. There was two different kinds of weaponization that was being addressed, obviously, for the Democrats.
There was the one that we're watching unfold, right? James Comey, the former FBI director, is being arraigned tomorrow on federal charges after President Trump fired the U.S. attorney in Alexandria, Virginia, after, you know, career prosecutors in that office had balked at bringing those charges.
And there is a number of other investigations where -- that were brought up today, including one against Tom Homan, who is accused of taking $50,000 in cash during a bribery sting by the FBI. A case was dropped early in this administration.
Those are the questions that Democrats really had on their mind. And, of course, Republicans, they had another type of weaponization that they wanted to illustrate with the help of the attorney general. And that includes, of course, these phone records that senators yesterday said they learned had been seized by the FBI due to a subpoena, court authorized subpoena from a grand jury authorizing the FBI to obtain four days or so of court -- I'm sorry, of phone records, not their content, just, you know, calls made to and from what time and the duration of calls, what they call total records, that was done as part of the January 6th investigation under special counsel Jack Smith.
That, of course, is going to be a big story going forward, because Republicans say that this was a weaponization of the Justice Department against them, against only GOP members.
[16:05:03]
Of course, you know, part of the story there, Kasie, is the fact that what the investigation was about was trying to figure out who the president was pressuring to not certify the election back on January 6th, 2021. That was that part of the investigation. But it doesn't matter, right? Because we are going to see for the next, at least for the next few months. An investigation of that aspect and to see whether any wrongdoing occurred during that time -- Kasie.
HUNT: All right. Evan Perez for us -- Evan, thank you very much for that reporting.
Our panel is here, chief Washington correspondent for "Puck News", Leigh Ann Caldwell; CNN political director, Washington bureau chief, David Chalian; Democratic strategist Adrienne Elrod; and former Republican congressman from Illinois, Rodney Davis.
Thank you all for being here. Really great to see you.
David Chalian, Pam Bondi -- okay. She has. Oh, and I'm sorry, I have -- I've forgotten our friends in the text chain that's going to be on the left of your screen. They're joining us again to discuss, more of the legal aspects of what we saw today from Pam Bondi. But, David, the politics of this, right? I mean, she's been in hot
water with the Trump administration. This was with Trump himself, or at least under pressure from Trump.
DAVID CHALIAN, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF: Right. Certainly, there was the mishandling of the Epstein stuff from the perspective of some inside the administration, although all the reporting all along you know, there was his frustration that justice officials were not going against his political enemies as much. We saw his very public truth social with director. But all along, all the reporting indicated that she was still in very good stead with the president. He came out to sort of support that.
Clearly, she still felt the need to perform as she did. But I cannot think of an example of a cabinet secretary's testimony that was basically -- like I kept thinking while I was watching, can you imagine what the prep session was like for this? Like just her learning an oppo book on every senator on the Democratic side of the day.
HUNT: I heard that case.
CHALIAN: Exactly. Exactly -- like, I mean, going back to the 2010 campaign of Blumenthal. Like, I was just like you -- she mastered an oppo -- opposition research book on every Democratic senator and unloaded it as her strategy to get through the hearing.
HUNT: Wasn't that against Linda McMahon, too? Was that race? Maybe I'm misremembering.
Anyway. Leigh Ann, the -- what David's point about the White House backing her -- I mean, you can look at "Politico", wrote a story about Pam Bondi and pulled all of her. She's done 30 live shots on Fox News, at least than and they're all in front of the White House, right? Like, if you look at these, these live shots, right?
I mean, that's a Washington power play. It doesn't really happen unless you're in good standing with the president.
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL, CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, PUCK NEWS: Yeah. And it's also what the current terms of being a cabinet official are. If you are in the Trump administration, it is not necessarily to be in the bureau running the agency, but being the face of the agency, and that's what Pam Bondi is doing. That's what this hearing was all about.
But the opposition research, that is exactly what I was thinking watching this. This was not a traditional oversight hearing. She treated it as a campaign moment, as a way to attack her opponents.
And it is really also emblematic of the way the administration actually thinks of Congress. They don't respect it as an oversight body of the administration. They don't give the congress any even basic information committees that ask for information, and they kind of think that Congress is a nuisance. And that's exactly how Pam Bondi treated this hearing today. HUNT: I mean, Congressman, if a cabinet, a Democratic cabinet official
came onto the Hill and talked to you like that, would you have put up with it? I mean --
RODNEY DAVIS, FORMER U.S. CONGRESSMAN: I will tell you, there were some pretty rambunctious hearings that I was a part of. They just didn't get the coverage that the attorney general got today. And frankly, it's common to have the minority party ask for information from cabinet officials. I know I did when I was a ranking member of a full committee. And you know what? We didn't get a lot of responses. And sometimes when those.
HUNT: You were more polite, I will say, typically. I'm giving you credit.
DAVIS: Thank you. Leigh Ann never says I'm polite. You do. I appreciate that.
You know, I will tell you, this is indicative of the politics of the day. Its performance. It's polarization. It's fighting. It's showing the base that you're going to fight like hell for what they want. It's exactly the same reason that Leader Schumer and Leader Jeffries have put themselves in a box right now in a shutdown.
HUNT: Adrienne Elrod, of course, the big picture here, is what pressure the presidents been putting on Pam Bondi as well. And David mentioned that Truth Social post. We can put that up. And it was directed straight at Pam Bondi a couple a weeks ago, September 20th.
Pam, I've reviewed over 30 statements in post saying essentially same old story as last time. All talk, no action, nothing is being done.
And then he goes on to basically talk about what has become you know, Comey, shifty Schiff, Letitia, we can't delay any longer.
[16:10:02]
It's killing our reputation and credibility.
And, of course, this just before Comey is indicted that now set to proceed this week. What does that say about where we are?
ADRIENNE ELROD, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I mean, I think it certainly underscores the fact that my friend Xochitl Hinojosa, who is sitting there in the text chain right now, who is a former spokesperson at DOJ, the point that she is making, which is Pam Bondi, is playing to an audience of one. She is simply trying to save her job.
Now, what it means for the overall context of where we are in Congress versus the White House and Oversight and whatnot. I mean, the fact that this Justice Department is coordinating so much with the White House, it's incredibly terrifying. It should worry every single American, no matter what side of the aisle you're on, that she is literally taking direct orders from the president of the United States. She's -- there's no separation of power. I mean, we could sit here
and, you know, certainly criticize Merrick Garland a little bit for his inaction, but she is taking the extreme overstep of doing whatever President Trump wants her to do. And he's made it very clear that she's, you know, her job is sort of on the chopping block. And she was playing to an audience of one today. And that came across quite clearly to every single American who was watching this hearing.
CHALIAN: And we should just note, though, I don't know any White House of either party that welcomes the oversight role of Congress or that welcomes investigations. But this was -- I mean, find me a performance from a cabinet official that mirrored this.
I just think this shows the unique moment were in because it's not oh, she's not wanting oversight. No, White House welcomes that. But this this was such a unique, distinct performance of attack.
HUNT: Well, and I think we should be clear too, that this is a Republican Congress, right? So -- any, you know, minority cannot -- they do not have subpoena power. It's not as though this is a Democratic congress, Leigh Ann, that is demanding that in a legal forum that she turn over documents. This was, to David's point, strictly a situation where she was trying to use the platform she had to go after Democratic senators.
CALDWELL: Yeah, absolutely. And sometimes, usually in these hearings, you might resist actually directly answering the question. But she didn't even attempt to even acknowledge what the questions were. There was no really exchange of information, exchange of ideas.
And that is what is different, as you said in your open, Kasie, she came in hot. It's not like she turned hot in the middle after being berated. She came in hot. And that was the goal of the entire hearing.
And for her, I think that her goal was absolutely accomplished. She did not want to give the Congress anything. No opening to get a word in and no opening to prove a political point either.
HUNT: Congressman, the one big potential weakness for Pam Bondi with -- maybe not with the president because she seems to be defending the president here, but certainly in terms of the MAGA base and controversy generally is what's gone on with the Epstein files.
And I want to flash back to February because this is part of what has gotten the administration in trouble on this because she went out in public and said, look, I got the files there on my desk. And then obviously we haven't seen them since.
Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS HOST: The DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients. Will that really happen?
BONDI: It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's been a directive by President Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: And of course, part of her going on offense was to criticize some Democratic senators for taking money from donors who have shown up, you know, tied to Jeffrey Epstein. I mean, was that the point of all of this offense to just push away from that story?
DAVIS: I don't know what the point is. And frankly, I bet she wished she probably would have read that information sitting on her desk before she went out and made that comment, because I think it's come back to bite her in many ways and created an opportunity for Republicans to feel like they've been under siege by part of their own base. You see, Thomas Massie's discharge petition continuing to gain signatures. Republicans who are on it are, you know, basically digging in. They are not going to take themselves off.
And now you have the new, newest Democratic member, when the House gets back to session, she'll likely get sworn in. That might put it over the top and cause a vote on this. It's an issue that I don't think is going to go away for Pam Bondi or Republicans. And it's unfortunate because it's taking valuable time away from getting real things done in Washington.
HUNT: Yeah. And we should note, of course, that that congresswoman, the congresswoman to be Grijalva, congresswoman-elect, keeps asking, hey, why am I not been sworn in yet, possibly for this very reason.
All right. Our thanks to our friends in the text chain. We'll have another group of them come through a little bit later in the hour. The rest of panel standby.
Coming up in THE ARENA, I'm going to talk with Democratic Senator Chris Coons. He questioned the attorney general today. Well ask him what he made of her answers, and those attacks.
Plus, the governor of Oregon, Tina Kotek, will join me live.
[16:15:02]
Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem is in Portland today to visit an ICE facility, as Oregon officials insist they do not need the National Guard.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAN RAYFIELD (D), OREGON ATTORNEY GENERAL: The United States military does not belong on our streets unless it's extreme circumstances. That's what the judge found, right? We don't have a rebellion here in Oregon. We don't have an insurrection. We don't have an invasion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BONDI: Senator, I am not going to discuss any conversations I have or have not had with the president of the United States.
I don't want to discuss any of that publicly.
[16:20:00]
I can't comment on whether we have or have not.
I cannot comment on that.
I'm not going to discuss anything about that with you, Senator.
Senator, I'm not going to discuss personnel matters.
Senator, I'm not going to discuss that with you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: That was Attorney General Pam Bondi today during her testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee. She was telling the Democratic senators, questioning her that she was either unable or unwilling to answer some of their questions.
A quite frustrated Senator Adam Schiff ran through just a few of those unanswered questions during the fiery hearing today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): You refused to answer that question. You were asked what -- who or what role you may have played or who played the role in asking the Trump's name be flagged in any of the Epstein documents gathered by the FBI? You refused to answer that question.
You were asked whether Homan kept the $50,000 bribe money. You refused to answer that question.
You were asked whether Homan paid taxes on the $50,000 bribe money. You refused to answer that question.
You were asked, did career prosecutors find insufficient evidence to charge James Comey? You refused to answer that question.
You were asked, how are military strikes on these boats in the Caribbean legal? And you refused to even answer that question.
You are asked --
BONDI: Do you have a law degree, Senator Schiff?
SCHIFF: Excuse me, excuse me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Okay. So, joining me now is the senator who asked her a few of those last questions that Senator Schiff mentioned, Democratic Senator Chris Coons of Delaware. He sits on the Senate Judiciary and Foreign Relations Committees.
And, sir, I think we've been having some technical challenges getting you up with us. So, fingers crossed you can hear me. I think you can. All right. We're good. This will be better than when I think Siri talked to you during one of my last -- my last interviews with you.
But listen, just watching this, hearing today, having covered and watched dozens and dozens of these, obviously, you've participated in more than I have, but I've seen my share over the years. I was very struck by the tone that she took with senators and the way that she was essentially saying that she couldn't speak to many of these questions.
What was your reaction to the way she presented herself today?
SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): Well, I was really struck, Kasie, by how aggressive, combative that Attorney General Bondi was today, particularly with Democratic senators questioning her. Senator Blumenthal, for example, was right after me, and he asked some of the same questions I had at greater length about the indictment of Jim Comey. And she immediately launched back at him, attacking him with issues raised in his last senatorial campaign that were utterly off the point and had nothing to do with the hearing, but were ad hominem attacks -- attacks at him and his truthfulness and his integrity.
That repeated a pattern that began with the very first Democrat to question her, Senator Durbin of Illinois, and continued until Senator Schiff of California. So, it was an unusually aggressive and combative performance by Attorney General Bondi.
A key part of what the Judiciary Committee does is conduct oversight. And I was glad that we had a long and full oversight hearing today. Ten minutes for each senator asked a wide range of questions, but it felt more like a boxing ring than like a senatorial oversight hearing.
HUNT: Sir, what is your top concern right now about the way the Justice Department and Pam Bondi, the Justice Department is handling these various affairs? There's a long list we talked about some of them at the -- at the top of the show. But if you had to name one thing that you are most concerned about, what is it?
COONS: It'd be very hard to pick just one, Kasie. But the way in which President -- the way in which President Trump is explicitly directing Attorney General Bondi to go after political enemies of his and the aggression with which she and the president were willing to fire a Republican nominee as the U.S. attorney for the eastern district to install as U.S. attorney someone with no relevant prosecutorial experience in order to ensure a prompt indictment of the former FBI director and then the ongoing list of additional enemies of the president.
This is a chilling politicization of the department of justice and something that Attorney General Bondi promised wouldn't happen when she was in her confirmation hearing before us now, many months ago.
HUNT: Senator, one, of course, running theme here is discontent as well among Democrats with how -- among Democratic voters, with how hard Democrats are fighting back against the Trump administration as part of why the government is currently shut down.
[16:25:10]
I'd like to put to you, are you at the point where you think your leadership should come to work with Republicans as the president is essentially arguing that perhaps these federal workers will not receive back pay, these furloughed workers? Or is the pain not where it needs to be, or where it would have to be for this shutdown to be resolved?
COONS: Kasie, let me try and pull apart your question for a minute if I could. First, it is just illegal for President Trump to threaten not to pay furloughed federal workers. That's because of a statute, a law that President Trump himself signed in his first term so he can threaten that. But it's not legal. Federal workers furloughed under a shutdown will be paid when the government reopens.
Second, between the Republican majority in the Senate, in the House and the Republican in the White House, they control whether or not this government is open or closed, what threats they're making, the ways they're trying to impose as much pain as possible. This is a Republican shutdown.
And I think what matters more than anything is that folks who are watching understand why -- in particular, why I'm standing behind our course as a caucus. That's because of health care.
Earlier today, I met with a group of heart doctors from Delaware. Several days ago, I met with the head of the hospital association from Delaware, and they are pointing to alarming signs that health insurance rates are jumping double digit for Delawareans, that our emergency room wait times are already long and are getting longer, that the price of drugs and pharmaceuticals is going up.
All of these are the result of decisions and actions by the Republican majority in Congress and President Trump. President Trump promised to reduce prices and to make America healthy again, and instead he's raising health care costs and leading to Americans being sicker.
So, I think this is an important moment for us to stand up and say we will work with Republicans and reopen this government and move ahead with appropriations when they change direction from imposing health care cuts and costs on the American people.
HUNT: And finally, sir, before I let you go, I want to ask you about the ways Democrats do have right to bring pressure in this system and one that's come up in the past has been around the Supreme Court.
I want to play you something that the former attorney general, Eric Holder, had to say today and then ask you about it on their side. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAIME HARRISON, HOST: Do you think in 2028, reform of the Supreme Court should be a part of the platform for the Democratic Party?
ERIC HOLDER, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: Absolutely. I think the Supreme Court has to be reformed, potentially, you know, expanded. We cannot simply allow this court to continue to do that, which it has done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: And, sir, I know this is an area where you have been relatively cautious in the past. I'm interested to know, considering what we've seen in this first year of the second Trump administration. Have you changed your mind? Do you think the Supreme Court should be expanded?
COONS: Kasie, that's literally a question I have not dedicated one minute to thinking about this year. I think --
HUNT: You know, we're three years out from the presidential primary here --
COONS: It's a long way off. I do think, I do think, to answer your question, I do think Democrats need to advance a concrete and affirmative agenda for here's what we would do to fight for the American people, to increase opportunity, economic opportunity to increase economic justice, to increase security, and to help fight for them. If we were somehow to be given the opportunity to lead in Congress and in the White House again.
And the question you put to me is one of many things that should be on the agenda for us to debate and discuss in the weeks and months ahead.
HUNT: All right. Fair enough.
Senator Chris, thanks very much for your time, sir. I really appreciate it.
COONS: Thank you.
HUNT: All right. See you soon.
Still ahead, we will speak to the Democratic governor of Oregon ahead of a critical court hearing on whether the president can deploy troops to her state.
But first, more on the White House considering not back paying furloughed federal employees as Americans start to feel the impact of those workers not being on the job.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP, LIVEATC.NET)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clear is closed. Grounds closed. Locals closed. The tower is closed due to staffing.
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:34:04] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Is it the White House's position that furloughed workers should be paid for their backpay?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I would say it depends on who we're talking about.
I can tell you this. The Democrats have put a lot of people in great risk and jeopardy, but it really depends on who you're talking about. But for the most part, we're going to take care of our people. There are some people that really don't deserve to be taken care of, and we'll take care of them in a different way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Seven days into the government shutdown, the White House trying to ratchet up the pressure on Democrats by floating the idea that furloughed government workers will not get backpay. That's according to a draft White House memo that's been circulating today. CNN has not reviewed the memo that suggested that these furloughed workers do not need to be paid.
It is worth noting, as our previous guest mentioned, that President Trump signed a law in his first term that would guarantee that workers would be paid in the event of a shutdown.
Now, on Capitol Hill, Speaker Johnson was quick to say that both he and the president want furloughed workers to get backpay.
[16:35:05]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I hope that furloughed workers receive backpay, of course. We have some extraordinary Americans who serve the federal government, and they serve valiantly, and they work hard, and they serve in these various agencies doing really important work.
I can tell you, the president believes that as well. He and I have talked about this personally. He doesn't want people to go without pay.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. My panel and THE ARENA chain are both back here.
I mean, Leigh Ann Caldwell, the way that Mike Johnson does -- he says the president and I both feel this way. And yet Mike Johnson's tone, quite different than the president's.
CALDWELL: Yeah, that's also Mike Johnson, who last week said that Russ Vought does not want to fire any federal workers when Mike Lee says this has been his dream since puberty. But anyway so, yeah, Mike Johnson was at that press conference. He was
really struggling with this answer because he said, oh, I saw a headline that the interpretation of the law might be different now. I haven't talked to the White House about it. So, he was struggling to be on message. He wasn't sure what the White House message was on that specific issue.
But as senator said, the law seems to be very clear. They passed a law in 2019 after the longest shutdown in history, to avoid any sort of confusion or freak out from federal workers during these government shutdowns.
HUNT: That basically says that, okay, you're not going to get paid while the government is actually shut, but as soon as it opens, you will receive any of your backpay. I mean, David Chalian, this does seem like a bid by the White House to try to put more pressure on Democrats.
Is it going to work?
CHALIAN: I mean, no doubt about that. I think you're seeing they're trying to turn any dial they can to pressure the Democrats to open up the government, right? And then begin a negotiation. I mean, we talked yesterday here about the president being open to negotiating on health care, and then he had to sort of clean that up right after to say, after you open up the government. I think what we're seeing -- what you played before the air towers, the air traffic control towers, whatever, right? That's a dial that Secretary Duffy is turning up again, all the pressure.
And I think this too, and I but just as you heard the president again, Kasie, I think they're also aware of the potential backlash. You heard from Johnson, if indeed they were not to give these federal workers back pay, there would be a real outcry by that, that they would be dealing with headlines they don't want to deal with. Yeah.
HUNT: And I think it's worth also noting, right, air traffic controllers are not Washington, D.C.-based people. Right? I mean, there are federal workers all across the country. Yes, concentrated in Maryland and Virginia.
But, Congressman, affecting other states as well. How do you think the politics of this are cutting? Because it seemed clear at the beginning Democrats were taking a risk. But in some ways, it seems to be Republicans that are feeling a little bit more pressure.
What's your view of it?
DAVIS: Oh, I don't think there's -- I don't think there's that pressure on Republicans. As a matter of fact, I -- I see no different than the 2013 shutdown. When I was a freshman member of Congress when we talk about air traffic control towers.
You know, David's right. This is a leverage point. The Obama administration threatened to close down contract air traffic control towers in Illinois during that shutdown. And coincidentally, almost all of them were in my district. What a shock.
It was a leverage point to get somebody like me to say, okay, I got to vote to reopen. I eventually did vote to reopen government because we were playing a strategy, putting a strategy forth that was not achievable.
And unfortunately, Democrats have put themselves into the exact same position. I can give you clip after clip after clip of Leader Schumer and Leader Jeffries and Democrats even probably senator, saying, you know, we don't want to negotiate on policy with Republicans during a shutdown. Just open the government, get a clean C.R., and then we'll talk. And it's the exact opposite.
I don't know how they get out of it, but I don't think Republicans feel that pressure.
HUNT: I mean, Adrienne, he's right. Those sound bites do exist.
ELROD: And sure, of course, they exist. But look, I mean, we've seen quite a few polls that have come out, media polls that have come out, "The Washington Post"/CBS, most notably that have shown that Republicans so far are owning this. And look, Kasie, you've covered congress in Washington for a long time. The White House, the party in charge, especially when you have all three, both chambers of Congress and the Senate and the White House, the party in charge is the party that typically gets blamed.
And yeah, when Obama was going through that in 2013, he was the one who got blamed. So --
DAVIS: We did.
ELROD: So --
HUNT: I mean, I think most Republicans who were there for that would say that they took the heat.
DAVIS: We got blamed.
HUNT: Right?
ELROD: Well, I was also a chief of staff on the Hill at the time. So, it was sort of, you know, a double-edged sword. But the bottom line is Republicans are the ones who are suffering this. We're seeing it play out in the polling and the very like notion that Democrats are to blame when we have no control of the House or the Senate is absurd. If they need our votes, which they do need in the Senate to get to 60 votes, come to the table, have a conversation, instead of adjourning the House, before the vote even takes place.
CHALIAN: Republicans got blamed in 2013 more than Democrats did. And then a year later, they picked up control of the Senate. They won House seats.
So, it didn't -- it didn't really impact the political landscape all that long. [16:40:01]
When we look at these polls about who's going to get the blame, I'm not sure that actually affects the long-term political landscape for voters.
HUNT: Fair enough. This is why we have you David Chalian for that important perspective. Thanks also to our friends in THE ARENA text chain for being with us.
Coming up next here, the governor of Oregon joins us live in THE ARENA. This as we get our first comments from Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem. She is on the ground in Portland right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Secretary, what do you hope to accomplish by visiting Portland today?
KRISTI NOEM, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: We hope to have peace and secure some partnerships that will keep our officers safe and allow us to enforce federal law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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[16:45:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It's been invoked before as you know. If you look at Chicago, Chicago's a great city where there's a lot of crime. And if the governor can't do the job, we'll do the job. It's all very simple.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: President Trump suggesting once again today that he may invoke the Insurrection Act of 1807, the centuries old law that would allow the president to send U.S. troops to American cities to respond to what he deems to be an insurrection.
His remarks coming as national guard troops land today in Illinois against the wishes of the state's governor, an appeals court set to hold hearings on Thursday on the legality of both the Chicago and Portland proposed deployments.
Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem just landed in Portland a bit ago to visit the ICE facility that the president has said is, quote, under siege.
CNN's Shimon Prokupecz is there. He is right outside that ICE facility.
Shimon, I know you've been on the ground for at least the last 24 hours or so. What have you seen in your time there? What are you seeing now.
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, today, this entire area just about a couple of hours ago, when the homeland security secretary arrived, they cleared out this entire area, which is agitated. Some of the protesters that you see out here now. Many of them were agitated because all of a sudden, law enforcement moved in and said everyone had to clear the street. Many of them have been camping out just behind where some of these officers are here. They had to clear out.
And the scene out here is just basically been people sitting around, standing around holding signs, yelling at the building. You know, the building where all of this is centered at is just past the viewpoint of our camera here. And it's really just one area. It's a driveway.
And I was here last night, and I was watching how it all would unfold. And what happens is in the evenings, the homeland security, they have border patrol, they have other law enforcement officials here. And what they do is when cars come in and out of the driveway leading into the facility, they stand around, they block the entrance, the gates, and they surround the vehicles that come out and they come out in essentially, they're heavily armed. They're in tactical gear, that draws a crowd.
They have rubber bullets that they fire at some of the protesters to get them to move back. I saw that. I felt some of that last night, and that's what sort of escalates the situation here. And then they retreat. Last night, we did see one person being detained by the Border Patrol and Homeland Security. We don't know why, but that's generally how things unfold here.
I should tell you that we are seeing a lot of Trump supporters out here, and they go back and forth with the protesters, and it's usually peaceful. There's some back and forth. Portland PD is out here as well. They intervene if things get a little too heated, but they generally are standing back.
It's been quite interesting to watch how the Portland Police Department has been responding to this. They're allowing the federal law enforcement here to maintain the security of the building and any interaction that there have been between protesters and law enforcement. It's been on the federal side, Kasie.
HUNT: All right. Shimon Prokupecz always grateful for your really textured reporting from the ground. Do keep us posted if there's anything else going on while you're -- while you're with us, really appreciate your time.
And joining us now to discuss is the Democratic governor of Oregon. Tina Kotek.
Governor, thank you very much for being with us today.
GOV. TINA KOTEK (D-OR): Thank you, Kasie. Thanks for having me.
HUNT: I want to start by asking you about the Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem, who has arrived in Portland to assess this situation. Have you met with her, and if so, what was discussed?
KOTEK: Yeah. I learned through unofficial channels yesterday, the secretary would be visiting Portland. So I reached out to her personally, and I wanted to speak with her face to face. As governor, my job is to stand up for Oregonians, protect them, and just have a direct conversation with the federal administration about what is happening on the ground here in Portland.
We talked about safety. We talked about safely allowing folks to peacefully protest. No one in Oregon is interested in seeing military policing on our streets when people are protesting peacefully. I also brought up the issue of the use of tear gas. We have some very strict laws in Oregon about how we interact with protesters and people who are lawfully demonstrating.
So, it was a straightforward conversation. I'm glad she is here on the ground to assess the situation, because she needs to see what the reality is here.
HUNT: So let me just back up a little bit. So, you had not heard from the Department of Homeland Security at all ahead of this planned visit? You reach out personally to her. Was she receptive? I mean, was it difficult to get the meeting? How were -- how were your overtures received?
KOTEK: She was receptive.
[16:50:00]
We have you know, I did speak with her more than a week or so ago when we had heard that, the president was considering military deployment in Oregon. We spoke on that very first day before I spoke with the president.
And -- so, I've continued to keep those lines of communication open, and I'm glad she was able to sit down when she landed by plane at Portland airport. We sat down. We talked about what was going on and, you know, and I really empathized with her. And she is meeting with local law enforcement that local law enforcement is working very hard to keep the situation calm.
What we are seeing, however, are tactics from the federal agents that are escalating things, and I really asked them to reassess what they're doing. The goal is to keep everybody safe.
HUNT: Did she tell you or do you have an understanding of who or how the tactics that should be used by federal law enforcement are being communicated to them?
KOTEK: Well, I think it's an interesting situation. State law here, you know, five years ago, in the midst of the George Floyd protests, the Oregon legislature passed laws here to be very clear, like when you can use tear gas, how you have to notify the crowd, how you how law enforcement interacts with people who are lawfully protesting.
And I would hope and expect and what I asked was for the federal agents to follow the law here. We also talked about the fact that, what is happening here is not what other people think outside of Portland is happening, right? Remember the ruling from the court with the idea of deploying the military, the Oregon National Guard and the California National Guard and the Texas National Guard to Portland.
The court ruled that that was unlawful because it was, quote, untethered from reality. She is here. It's a beautiful fall day in Portland. She gets to see what is happening in a one block radius of the ICE facility. And, I'm glad she's meeting with local law enforcement because she could see and hear the type of tactics that they are engaging in to keep this situation as calm as possible.
What -- what would you ask for, if anything, from the federal government to aid your local law enforcement in fighting crime?
HUNT: You've obviously said you don't want military police. What do you need, if anything?
KOTEK: Well, this isn't a crime situation. You know, crime statistics in Portland are down. Sure. We're a large -- Portland's a large city. They have things they have to deal with. But when it comes to the situation on the ground, we're hearing from the federal administration that this is a war zone in front of this facility. Its simply not true. And if I had anything to ask to, the federal administration is, follow the rule of law from the federal court, send the Oregon National Guard troops home, the California national guard troops home. They don't -- they don't need to be here. And it's unlawful that they are here in my state.
HUNT: Okay. So, you're obviously not the only state that has been affected here. We've been reporting today about Texas and other national guard members landing in Illinois. Have you spoken with Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker about this or others as this legal fight continues?
KOTEK: Yeah, I've been speaking with Governor Pritzker in particular almost on a daily basis. It's really important to understand that this isn't just about Democratic led states or Democratic-led cities. What is happening here when the federal government, without real facts and the court has said there are no facts on the ground to justify this, is talking about putting military troops in American cities.
It is crossing a line. This is a threat to our democracy, and we need to allow the rule of law to be upheld, which says there is no insurrection, there is no rebellion here. And the president needs to stand down, and we need to send these troops home.
HUNT: What -- what would you say to Republican governors that are participating in this, along with the president, Governor Greg Abbott, for example, and the Texas national guard being sent? What would your message to Governor Abbott be?
KOTEK: I think it's important for every governor in our country to really think this through. As the governor of Oregon, I am the commander in chief of the Oregon National Guard. That is true for every governor across our great country. The idea that a president could misuse and abuse the power to deploy
the military into our American cities should show everybody this is a very serious situation. And I would urge Republican governors not to volunteer their troops, because this is not who we are as Americans. This is not what the law says. And this is a threat to who we are as a democracy. And I would just -- it needs to stop.
And when the judge was very clear and she ruled twice, and she said the facts on the ground do not match what the president is doing with his authority.
[16:55:08]
He does not have the authority, according to the court, to deploy military troops in Portland.
HUNT: All right. Governor Tina Kotek of Oregon, thank you very much for your time today. I really appreciate it.
KOTEK: Thank you.
HUNT: All right. We'll be right back.
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HUNT: All right. Thanks to my panel for joining us today. Really appreciate you guys.
And if you at home missed any of today's show, you can always catch up with our podcast. Scan the QR code below. You can follow along wherever you get your podcasts. You can also follow the show on X and Instagram @TheArenaCNN.
But now, it's time for Jake Tapper, who is standing by for "THE LEAD".
Hi, Jake.
