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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Sources: A.G. Bondi Was Caught Off Guard By Letitia James Charges; White House Budget Chief: Firing Of Federal Workers Underway; Israel: Ceasefire In Effect As Troops Pull Back In Gaza. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired October 10, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:29]
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. Happy Friday. We made it to the end of quite a week.
New details today around the indictment of Letitia James, raising questions about the origins of the case. The attorney general of New York just the latest in Donald Trump's perceived enemies targeted by the Justice Department. Two sources telling CNN that Attorney General Pam Bondi was caught off guard by the indictment. The U.S. attorney who brought the case, Lindsey Halligan, apparently did not coordinate with Justice Department leadership.
On Thursday, a grand jury in the Eastern District of Virginia indicted James on one count of bank fraud and one count of making a false statement to a financial institution. They are charges that James denies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LETITIA JAMES (D), NEW YORK ATTORNEY GENERAL: These charges are baseless, and the president's own public statements make clear that his only goal is political retribution at any cost. I'm a proud woman of faith, and I know that faith and fear cannot share the same space. And so today, I'm not fearful. I'm fearless.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: James's indictment follows that of the former FBI director, James Comey. You may remember that both were named in this Truth Social post from President Trump last month. But it turns out this was supposed to be a D.M. A source familiar with the matter tells CNN the president was surprised to learn that the message had been posted to his Truth Social account.
In a statement to "The Wall Street Journal", the White House did not deny that the message was supposed to be private, instead saying that the Justice Department was, quote, committed to ending the weaponization.
Still, President Trump has been very public about his feelings toward the woman who successfully prosecuted a civil case against the Trump organization. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have a racist Attorney General who's a horror show.
He's got serious Trump derangement syndrome. There's no question about it. Letitia James, the corrupt attorney general of New York.
Did you ever watch her? I will get Donald Trump.
James ought to be looked at. He's like the puppet master of the judge.
Letitia James is a total crook. All they do is want to go after political opponents.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right, let's get off the sidelines, head into THE ARENA.
My panel is here. National political reporter for "The New York Times", Astead Herndon; former Trump White House communications director Alyssa Farah Griffin; former communications director for the Vice President Kamala Harris, Jamal Simmons; and CNN's senior political commentator Scott Jennings.
On the left side, you will see our arena text chain joining us today. You're going to see some additional analysis from some of our top legal contributors about the legal aspect of this while we talk about the politics. It's great to be here with all of you in New York.
Alyssa, it's great to see you. Congratulations on your baby. I know you had some new news there.
But let's talk about what this means. Big picture, right? So we're learning these new details that the Justice Department was apparently surprised about this. Lindsey Halligan kind of went on her own, and that this message was supposed to be a direct message.
I think the question I have here is everyone probably has their own reasons for wanting various parties to think that the public message was supposed to be a DM, that Pam Bondi had no idea that this was coming. What do you think we should be focused in on here?
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, listen, first and foremost, I thought it was totally inappropriate when Letitia James ran for attorney general saying she was going to go after Donald Trump. I think it's equally inappropriate that he DM'd or tweeted or truth out that his Justice Department should go after her, James Comey and others. I don't think it's good for the justice system in the state of New York or federally.
One rule as a staffer, do not give the boss the keys to any of the social media. You are bound to have this happen, and it is going to undercut his own prosecution here.
I think it's a lot harder to make the case that this wasn't a directive with this new reporting. But I've said before, I'm not convinced that convictions are the goal in this Comey case or in this case. It's simply about people who went after him, making it tough for them the way he feels that they did for him.
So they're going to be tied up in legal fees and in court for a while, but it's going to be incredibly hard, I think, to get convictions.
ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah. I think that second part is hugely important. It seems pretty clear, even based on the actions that we're seeing, the purpose from Trump is that intimidation. You know, I was at the 2023 CPAC where he debuted his I am your justice, I am your contribution. He summed up his own kind of directive for this term, at least among the voters he's most caring about.
Now, that may not be the reason he won, right?
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We know the economy matter. We know that the other issues matter. But for the folks he's most thinking about, he has made the kind of pushback against those institutions and that kind of enemies list. And going one by one on that, at least seemingly a core feature of this second administration and a much different than the first time around.
HUNT: So, Scott Jennings, do you buy that it was supposed to be a D.M.? To be clear, I'm not questioning our reporting. Our reporting is that the White House, this apparently was supposed to have been a direct message and not a public posting. Do you?
I mean, it seems like the White House would have an interest in saying, actually, this wasn't supposed to be public if they want these prosecutions to succeed.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, the things he said in the message are the same things he says publicly. So, I mean, it's not like he's ever really, you know, shied away from telling us what he thinks about these people who've been going after him inappropriately for all these years. I think the only question we ought to be asking today is, is she guilty?
I mean, a grand jury found enough evidence to bring charges. And, you know, it looks like there's something there. And so, whether she's been a political opponent of Donald Trump or whether Donald Trump has been a political opponent of hers, whether they've sniped at each other in the press, I just wonder, is she guilty? Because if she's guilty, it's a serious thing.
Mortgage fraud is a serious thing. Making false statements is a serious thing, particularly when you hold high office the way she does in New York.
HUNT: Yeah. We'll say, Jamal -- I mean, I was talking to a legal expert on this show yesterday who basically said, actually, in a case like this, going after a high profile person for committing a crime, that or allegedly committing a crime that's relatively common is actually something that they -- the Justice Department, prioritizes on the regular. It's not necessarily because -- or it may not be for political reasons. I mean, what's your view of the merits of this?
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, the first thing I'm thinking about here is we've got signal chats with the defense secretary and the others talking about war plans. Now we've got the president claiming that he's deeming their argument here. Is that incompetence actually is what happened here. Right. Because if the president doesn't know how to DM, who else is the president DM-ing and what else don't -- are we not supposed to know that it is that he's sending out?
Listen, our democracy is built on a few foundations, and one of those is that we're going to have, you know, a stable middle class. We're going to have freedom of the press. You know, we're going to have a good civil service. We're going to have independence that we've done over the last few decades, and independence of the Justice Department.
This shows whether it was a D.M. or it was meant to be public, it shows the president of the United States directing the Justice Department to go after his political enemies. And whether she did it or not, that pales in comparison to a president of the United States directing the Justice Department to target people. And we now know who've done it with three people, two of them have court cases.
HUNT: One thing that Republicans are pointing to was a post that Letitia James herself made back in February of 2024, and she says when powerful people cheat to get better loans, it comes at the expense of hardworking people. Everyday Americans cannot lie to a bank to get a mortgage. If they did, our government would throw the book at them. There simply cannot different rules for different people, Alyssa.
GRIFFIN: No, I think it's significant. Listen, of all the cases that were brought against Trump, I always ought that Letitia Jamess was the most of a reach. You heard from many experts at the time who said this is going to hurt people wanting to do business in the state of New York. This feels personal. It felt like a vendetta. And now, we've seen in the appeals court that massive settlement that he was supposed to pay has been knocked down.
I do think that there was an -- there was more than an element of her wanting to target Donald Trump. But the answer to that, folks, is not that he should then target her back. That does not make justice of both sides or misusing the power that they have. If she did in fact commit a crime, if she did, in fact, when denouncing this previously, she should be held accountable.
But we know other prosecutors didn't want to bring this case because they didn't think there was enough "there" there.
HERNDON: You would also think that Donald Trump's argument really minimizing the prosecutions that came, was successful. That's why he was able to win, right? The voters really dismissed those claims. It is his desire to use the levers of government once he's back in for that purpose of retribution, which he signaled on the campaign, on the campaign trail.
Donald Trump won because of his diagnosis of legitimate problems throughout society, throughout even the legal system. But folks never fully agreed, at least beyond the full base, about the solutions he was proposing. And I think we're seeing that type of clash right now.
HUNT: So the question, of course, is potentially, who's next here? Because there, of course have been kind of lists out. And as Scott pointed out, the president freely talks about a lot of the people that he wants to go after.
So here are some people that are under investigation right now, John Bolton, John Brennan, Lisa Cook, of course, Federal Reserve, Chris Krebs, Adam Schiff, Jack Smith, Miles Taylor, the public calls to investigate, Reid Hoffman, Mark Milley, George Soros, Fani Willis, Chris Wray. This is quite an array of people.
Scott Jennings, one person we've heard about is John Bolton, although it sounds like that investigation may have begun under the Biden administration.
JENNINGS: Yeah, that started under Biden. And from what I read in the newspaper, they did find classified material, according to the reporting in his house.
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And so, I don't know if you can put that one on the list exactly. Fani Willis has got, you know, I mean, we could spend a whole hour discussing the ethical problems of Fani Willis. I mean, some of these people have real problems. And so, to call them all vendettas, I'm not sure is accurate.
But look, my view is there is a process here. And the case of Letitia James and the case of Comey, really, in the case of anybody, anybody, you wind up getting charged through a grand jury system. The grand jury looks at these things. They decide whether you should go to trial. Then you get your day in court.
And that's what happened to Donald Trump here in New York. He got put through a process. And as Alyssa pointed out, the one that she pursued against him, the big judgment was vacated. So, it looked like it was massive overreach in that particular case.
At some juncture, we do have to have some trust in the process. These are ordinary citizens. These are our peers. These are just average Americans who get called into grand juries and juries to sort out what's right and wrong. And I still have some belief that that system is -- has integrity.
SIMMONS: You know, I'd like to have trust in the process, too. And, you know, it would help me have trust in the process would be if someone like Tom Homan, who got caught taking $50,000 bag of cash, apparently, according to the reporting, also had his case investigated thoroughly by the Justice Department. And then we had that adjudicated in whatever fair way it is that people should have these things adjudicated. Instead, we've got the Justice Department pulling back on that investigation, according to the reporting.
So, sure, I'd like to have some trust that means --
HUNT: Look at the mayor, Eric Adams --
SIMMONS: -- having the president -- Eric Adams --
HUNT: Who's not going to be the mayor anymore.
SIMMONS: Had it pulled away.
And Joe Biden, let's remember -- he left. He left a prosecutor investigating his son while he was in office. And he had a Democrat -- hold on one second --
JENNINGS: And he had a pardon.
SIMMONS: He had a Democratic senator investigated who now is in jail. So, I think we've --
JENNINGS: You've seen Joe Biden did it personally.
SIMMONS: I'm saying the Justice Department did it, and Joe Biden did not interfere.
JENNINGS: So, you're saying the White House does have personal interest in prosecutions?
SIMMONS: I'm saying the president did not interfere in the Justice Department.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: We want to get you there.
SIMMONS: -- as a standard, I think, we'd all be much better off.
(CROSSTALK)
SIMMONS: Trump pardoned Kwame Kilpatrick, what does that have to do with anything?
GRIFFIN: I do just want to know on John Bolton, without knowing the details of the case, beyond what is public, he's not being accused of anything that Joe Biden and mike pence and Donald Trump weren't also accused of, well, carrying out their duties, and he would have been the most senior national security advisor in the White House during that. So, I think that's where the substance behind it.
HUNT: Yeah. Instead, you want to get in on it?
(LAUGHTER)
SIMMONS: You can take your own, you don't have to jump in.
JENNINGS: Astead has signaled that it's now turtleneck weather in New York City.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: It is a nip in the air. And Astead you called it.
HERNDON: It feels to me as if, you know, like, you know, I'll let y'all have it. Honestly y'all have it.
HUNT: Astead is tapping out.
Okay. I think that's our cue to take a break. I want to thank our friends in the text chain for being here. The rest of our panel is going to stick with us through the hour.
We do have some breaking news right now, though. U.S. markets closed sharply lower just minutes ago. The Dow tumbling almost 900 points, the S&P down 2.7 percent, the tech heavy Nasdaq slid a massive three and a half percent.
What might be moving the markets today, President Donald Trump saying that he is considering a, quote, "massive increase," end quote, on import -- on imports from China. That's related to the tariffs. This was the worst day for the markets since April and May.
All right. Coming up next, Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar will be here in THE ARENA. I'll get her reaction to the news that Trump's message about prosecuting his opponents was not supposed to be public.
And then Republican Congressman Mike Lawler joins me. Federal employees have started to lose their jobs permanently as the government shutdown is stretching into next week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: If you're a -- if you're a service member who's not getting a paycheck, it's because Chuck Schumer has to appease the Marxist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): How about the Truth Social post on September 20th, 2025, in which the president said, we can't delay any longer, Pam, using your name. Not bringing criminal charges are killing our reputation, his words, and credibility. Do you consider that a directive to the Justice Department?
PAM BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Senator Klobuchar, President Trump is the most transparent president in American history.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: That was the attorney general, Pam Bondi, responding to a question about this now infamous Truth Social post from September 20th, where the president directly urged Bondi to prosecute his perceived political opponents, including FBI Director James Comey and New York Attorney General Letitia James, both of whom, of course, have since been indicted by the Justice Department, a source now telling CNN that the very post that was in fact, that that was there was in fact, intended to be a private message to Pam Bondi, not to be shared with the president's nearly 11 million followers on the platform.
Joining us now to discuss the person you saw, ask Bondi about the president's post there, Democratic senator from Minnesota, Amy Klobuchar, who, of course, sits on the Senate Judiciary Committee.
Senator, I'm so grateful to see you. And --
KLOBUCHAR: Yes.
HUNT: -- of course, for anyone who doesn't know, you yourself have been a prosecutor. You are an attorney.
KLOBUCHAR: Uh-huh.
HUNT: Why might it be that the White House is now -- wants to say through the press that this public message was supposed to be private?
KLOBUCHAR: That's unbelievable to me. I guess you just say oops. But to me, whether that's true or not, 11 million people versus one to me, in some ways, the fact that he would be, if it's true, just sending it to her makes it even worse.
How many other secret messages are there -- out there where he told her to do things? To me, this is just the fundamental -- fundamental part of being a prosecutor is that you can't take that kind of pressure. Your job is not to represent the president or powerful people that call you. This happens to everyone that has a job like this.
I had hundreds of employees and people from the outside, not electeds would call me from time to time. Ho, hey, don't bring this up. I've never once -- once you cross that line, you are no longer representing the people. And that's what's so concerning.
And by the way, as I listen to that questioning from the Judiciary Committee, I hadn't heard it for a while, and I remember her saying the president is the most transparent president in the history. I wish I had said, well, then why doesn't he just release the Epstein files if he so transparent?
But in any case, this is a question. When you look at what's happened with James Comey, he sent a direction. Then he sent a direction about Letitia -- Letitia James.
And now he's sent a direction, by the way, talking about the governor of the state of Illinois and the mayor of the city of Chicago and the other FBI director that served under both Republican and president, Democratic president. He is now widening his net. Adam Schiff of who he is telling them to prosecute. And the question I have is, when does this end? They've already gotten
rid of a conservative, Republican, career, well-respected prosecutor in Erik Siebert, who was suggested to the White House by a Republican governor of Virginia. And they got rid of him and they installed their own aide. And now they're bringing these cases.
It's absolutely frightening for the justice system and for anyone that believes that the rule of law should govern, and we should be a law of -- we should be a country of democracy and not kings.
HUNT: Yeah. Senator, while I have you, the other major story, of course, that we have been covering has been the shutdown of the government. It still remains shut down. And I want to bring in your leader, Schumer, was interviewed by punchbowl news, and he said this about a shutdown that's now about to stretch into another week. He said, quote, "Every day gets better for us," end quote.
And it seems he was talking about the politics there. I'm curious what you thought he was talking about and whether you think it's helpful.
KLOBUCHAR: You know, I wasn't there for that interview, but I know that Chuck feels deeply as we all do, that this is actually about what's happening to the American people right now. And we have made that really clear. This is about the fact that people are standing on a cliff right now with insurance premiums.
We're going to see a doubling in my state and other places for anyone that's on any kind of a plan with the Affordable Care Act and our colleagues on the other side, I'm still here. If they want to meet right now, I'm ready to do it.
The House has not been in session for 21 days. They are not there. Every other budget debate we've had over years through Republican president, they come to the table. They're not coming here and they know very well, privately and publicly that we need to do something about these escalating premiums.
People are already hit as your report just showed, with what just happened with the market in response to more cries of tariffs that have been changed over 100 times, grocery prices up, electricity prices up, health care premiums up, people who are working hard for a living know exactly what's going on here. And that's why we are standing up and saying, come to the table, let's do something about one of these things.
HUNT: What do you say, Senator, to critics who see Democratic leaders doing this because they say there's pressure from the far left to keep the government shut down?
KLOBUCHAR: Okay. So, let's look at these health care premiums. Three fourths of the people on Affordable Care Act plans live in states that Donald Trump won. The majority of them are in Republican congressional districts.
HUNT: Yeah, that's the point on healthcare.
KLOBUCHAR: If you work at a big corporate --
(CROSSTALK)
KLOBUCHAR: That is my point. The far left --
HUNT: In the past, Democrats have said policy is not a reason to shut down the government, right?
KLOBUCHAR: No, but this is about the budget. The budget is a statement of our values. The budget is about where we're putting money.
I mean, they chose to put a whole bunch of money in the pockets of wealthy people with the big, beautiful betrayal of a bill. That's what they did. And they put us into much, much bigger debt, and as a result, triggered Medicare cuts. They already had Medicaid cuts in there, and then they didn't correct this.
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So that's their values.
And now, we have this moment because another budget is coming up here, another decision about how we're going to spend money. And this is the place where we should do that.
So that's what this is about. And it is about my constituents. One guy, soybean farmer whose markets completely dried up and he's got higher fertilizer costs because of the tariffs on that in Canada, and no market. And now, these health care premiums.
He said to me, it's a perfect storm of ugly. They know that's what we're in the middle of it and I don't -- I listen to them say, blame, you're doing this, you're doing that. I just look at the people who come up to me who say they need help. That's what this is about.
HUNT: All right. Senator Amy Klobuchar, I really appreciate your time today. Hope you can come back soon.
KLOBUCHAR: It was great, to be on, Kasie. Thanks.
HUNT: Hopefully, I'll see you in D.C. next time I'm there. You caught me on the --
KLOBUCHAR: There you go.
HUNT: -- in the studio. I'll see you then.
KLOBUCHAR: OK.
HUNT: All right. Coming up next here in THE ARENA, new video shows Gazans making the long trek back home as the deal between Israel and Hamas appears to be holding.
CNN's Clarissa Ward standing by. She is in Israel.
Plus, the Nobel Peace Prize has been announced. And the winner? It is not President Trump. The reaction from his MAGA base and from the president himself, after his years-long campaign for the award.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think I'm going to get a Nobel Prize for a lot of things if they gave it out fairly, which they don't.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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HUNT: All right. Welcome back.
Phase one of the deal between Israel and Hamas is now in effect. So far, the ceasefire appears to be holding. Today, thousands of Palestinians began the trek from south Gaza back to what is left of their homes in the north. As the IDF makes their way out and to the new deployment lines. An official tells us that U.S. troops have started arriving in Israel to monitor the plan's implementation.
CNN chief international correspondent Clarissa Ward is here now in THE ARENA with the latest.
So, Clarissa, the 72-hour window for Hamas to release this -- these remaining hostages. I mean, we are -- we are moving through that. What are we expecting in the next 60 hours here?
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So that's right, Kasie. We're almost 12 hours into this ceasefire. It does appear to be holding, as you said. The IDF has pulled back to what they're calling the yellow line. That's the first retreat or withdrawal line, per this plan.
And we expect to see -- we don't have an exact timeline, but sometime in the next 60 hours, we expect to see those hostages released.
Now, important for our viewers to remember, 20 of those 48 hostages are believed to still be alive. At least two of those are believed to be in poor health. We are also expecting to see 28 deceased hostages being released, though we did hear earlier, Kasie, from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and he was essentially kind of paving the ground for the possibility that it might take more than this 72-hour window to effectively locate the remains of all of those 28 deceased hostages.
But nonetheless, this is poised to look a little different to previous hostage releases that we've seen. According to the plan, the hostages should be released in one tranche or in one go. Previously, we had seen them released in smaller groupings. And then, of course, you are also expecting to see some 1,700 Palestinian detainees who have been held since October 7th, and the release of 250 Palestinian prisoners serving life sentences about 150 of those are expected to be deported to third countries. Others will be returned to the West Bank and East Jerusalem. So, a lot of moving parts in these next 60 hours. And from there we
then expect to see the next phase of implementation and most crucially, Kasie, you talked about those honestly biblical images of Palestinians battered and beleaguered, trudging on foot back to what remains of their homes in northern Gaza. We now expect to see this anticipated, hotly anticipated, I should say, and vital surge of aid 170,000 metric tons, according to the U.N. now waiting on the borders, ready to go in and help the people of Gaza as they are still in the throes of this horrific humanitarian crisis -- Kasie.
HUNT: All right. Clarissa Ward, for us in Israel -- Clarissa, thanks very much for that reporting. And, of course, this ceasefire deal that we are seeing play out here.
It led to the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu's office posting in support of President Trump after Trump did not win the Nobel Peace Prize. That was just announced. Instead, the illustrious award went to Venezuelan opposition leader Maria Corina Machado, who led the pro-democracy movement in their election last year. This caused outrage among many MAGA supporters and politicians that it did not go to President Trump.
The White House communications director, Steven Cheung, posted on X, quote, the Nobel Committee proved they place politics over peace. The right-wing commentator Jack Posobiec said no one is surprised the globalists would snub our president, while Megyn Kelly and Laura Loomer both defended the president, saying he deserves the prize.
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You may remember President Trump has not been shy about talking about how important winning this prize is to him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I will never give me a Nobel Peace Prize. Do I deserve the Nobel Peace -- well, maybe for the Abraham Accords.
They should give me the Nobel Prize for Rwanda. I should have gotten it four or five times. I should get a Nobel Prize for each one.
Everyone says that I should get the Nobel Peace Prize for each one of these achievements. Will you get the Nobel prize? Absolutely not. They'll give it -- they'll give it to some guy that didn't do a thing.
Nobody in history has solved eight wars in a period of nine months. They gave it to Obama for doing absolutely nothing but destroying our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So worth underscoring that nominations for the Peace Prize, they were concluded on January 31st, so the president had only been in office for 11 days before nominations for this year's prize closed. He has been nominated by several world leaders for consideration next year. So, of course, Machado, who won this year, was nominated in august 2024 by none other than a group of U.S. lawmakers. One of them was Marco Rubio, of course, now President Trump's secretary of state.
Our panel has returned. THE ARENA text chain is also going to weigh in on this.
Alyssa Farah Griffin, this is clearly -- it's, you know, the president talks about this out loud so often. How he deserves the prize, but how they're never going to give it to him for all these, you reasons, these grievances that in many ways it encapsulates the way he has lived out his time on the world stage, period.
GRIFFIN: Listen, I'm not the biggest Trump fan. If this ceasefire holds, he absolutely deserves the Nobel Peace Prize next time around. Hands down. The suffering that we've seen from hostages who have been in for entertainment for two years -- from innocent Palestinian civilians who have been just in the aftermath of this horrific war.
He, Jared Kushner, Steve Witkoff if this holds, they should absolutely be considered for it. And listen, maybe give it the time.
HUNT: I don't know how much argument there would be around that.
GRIFFIN: Right. But it obviously couldn't have happened yet because this deal has only been underway for 20 or so hours.
HUNT: Right.
GRIFFIN: I mean, I think to your point, we will see a wave of folks do that nomination next year. I mean, I think there's one reason President Trump wants the Nobel Prize, likely because Barack Obama won it in 2009. And it is fair to say based on, you know, even it was controversial at that time, too, because he was at the beginning of his term. Right?
And so that has been the grievance that has driven so many, I think, of Trump -- Donald Trump's relationship with some of these institutions. He has a push and pull type of thing. He wants that validation, even though he's been so upset that these institutions have never really seen him fully.
SIMMONS: You know, he is the most powerful, politically powerful president. Donald Trump -- Donald Trump is the most politically powerful president of my lifetime. And yet he plays the victim. It's just not a good look.
I wish he would just sort of grow into the role a little bit. And I'll tell you, I'm not a Democrat who roots for Donald Trump's failure. I root for him to be fair, right? And I think what's killing him on the supreme -- on the Nobel Prize in the end is going to be on one hand, you're going to have things like what's happening in the Middle East.
On the other hand, you've got troops on the streets, you've got pastors being pepper sprayed by ICE agents. Youve got all this disarray happening at home, and it's so hard for people who want to root for American success, to root for Donald Trump, because Donald Trump is doing both of these things at the same time. JENNINGS: I agree with everything you just said. It is hard for
Democrats to root for Americas success because they're so broken by Donald Trump. Donald Trump is the core problem of the Democratic Party. You cannot bring yourself to root for America because Donald Trump is the president.
SIMMONS: It's not fair, Scott. That's not what I said.
JENNINGS: He deserves --
SIMMONS: It's precisely the opposite.
JENNINGS: He deserves the Nobel Prize. He deserved it before this deal. He deserves it now. He deserved it for hitting Iran. He deserves it for the eight other peace agreements that he's negotiated. He deserved it for the Abraham accords. If they don't give it to him next year, it will be a travesty. I would note that the lady who got it this year, who, by the way, deserves it, she dedicated her award to Donald Trump and was thanking Donald Trump and the American people for their support in getting rid of the Venezuelan regime.
And so I hope he does get it, because at the end of the day, it will piss off all the right people. And I just, I would be so happy. I would be so happy --
GRIFFIN: I think that this ceasefire deal, if it holds, is so historically and diplomatically significant that I would separate it from the other things. I support the Abraham Accords. That was a tremendous accomplishment. But it's a very different thing.
I mean, the suffering that we've seen, the way its torn people apart in this country, all over the world, like that is a tremendous success. And you've seen people like Ian Bremmer of the Eurasia Group --
JENNINGS: Yeah.
GRIFFIN: -- no supporter of Donald Trump's foreign policy, who says this looks like an incredibly smart deal. I think we should all be rooting for its success.
HERNDON: Whether Donald Trump gets the Nobel prize or not, Democrats should ask themselves why this deal is happening now and not under Biden, 100 percent.
SIMMONS: But remember, Joe Biden did have ceasefires. So, the question now is -- he did have hostage releases when he was president. The question now is, will we actually get to a peace deal. And so, we know well have ceasefire, we know have hostage releases.
[16:40:01]
I think we can all celebrate that. What happens next is yet to be determined.
JENNINGS: These people have been screaming about genocide and free Palestine for the last several months. They have gone awfully quiet. Trump stopped it. He's apparently freed Palestine. He's freed the hostages.
We have the makings of a peace deal here. All these people have been in the streets, Kasie, all these months -- awfully quiet, awfully quiet.
SIMMONS: Wait, it's quiet in the streets. Why are the military being deployed all over America?
JENNINGS: No, I'm just -- I'm just asking, where are the -- where there's people?
SIMMONS: War and turmoil all over America.
JENNNGS: This has been a cause celebre.
SIMMONS: You just said that there's quiet in the streets.
JENNINGS: No, I'm saying the military. There's quiet among these free Palestine terrorists that have been --
(CROSSTALK)
HUNT: Astead right here basically laughing while the two of you --
JENNINGS: You've had person after person on this network and out -- wherever, screaming about genocide and so on and so forth. Why are they not celebrating this deal? Where are all those people?
HERNDON: I would say I hear a lot of kind of pro-Palestinian protesters saying, Donald Trump has done what Joe Biden has refused to do. That is an argument that folks on the left are making about the failures of traditional Democratic establishment. Now, you may -- you may not care about those folks, but that's 100 percent an argument that this happened.
JENNINGS: Just this week in New York. We had people on the streets of New York saying we didn't do enough on October the 7th, we got to come back for more. So --
SIMMONS: I'd be happy -- for the record, I'd be happy if this worked. I just want it to work. And I also want the troops out of the streets and pastors to stop getting hit with pepper spray. And Donald Trump to release the Epstein files.
HUNT: I mean, and, Scott, on the point that you are making and the protesters out in the streets and to pick up on what Astead said. I mean, a lot of these Palestinian protesters, they were showing up at Democratic events, angry at -- I mean, if you look at what played out in Michigan with President Biden, do you? I'm not sure I see this as a strictly left right issue the way that --
JENNINGS: I just -- there are people, there are people who have made this their whole life's mission for the last two years to scream about Israeli genocide, to scream about how this is all Israels fault, to scream about how the United States shouldn't be supporting Israel. Trump has literally ended it. He has saved the hostages. He has put an end to what you called in their case, a genocide.
And I just don't detect that they are appreciative of it. And it's almost like it wasn't really it wasn't really the thing that they were interested in. But we'll see what they say when the hostages come home. Everybody ought to be happy about this. I've been wearing this pin for two straight years. I can't wait to take it off Monday night.
SIMMONS: I appreciate it, Scott.
JENNINGS: I'm glad you do. Talk to your party.
HUNT: Thanks very much to our friends in THE ARENA. Really appreciate it.
The rest of our panel will stand by.
Coming up next, Congressman Mike Lawler will be here live in THE ARENA. We're going to talk about the government shutdown stretching into that second week. And this -- I don't know what you want to call it spicy moment with the minority leader.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): You're going to talk to me and talk over me because you don't want to hear what I have to say.
(CROSSTALK)
REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): Oh, I'm listening.
JEFFRIES: Why don't you just keep your mouth shut?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:47:20]
HUNT: All right. Welcome back to THE ARENA.
The president's budget chief Russ Vought is executing today on the administration's threat to lay off federal employees over the government shutdown. A spokesperson tells CNN that the layoffs will be, quote, substantial. Vought posted this on the 10th day of the shutdown. Quote, "The RIFs have begun." RIF stands for reduction in force.
It's not immediately clear how many federal workers have received RIF notices. Vought's post coming a day after the president made this promise during a cabinet meeting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We'll be making cuts that will be permanent, and we're only going to cut Democrat programs. They wanted to do this, so we'll give them a little taste of their own medicine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Joining me now to discuss, Republican Congressman Mike Lawler of New York. He sits on the House Financial Services and Foreign Affairs Committee.
Congressman always great to see you. Thanks very much for being here.
Do you want to see --
LAWLER: Thanks for having me.
HUNT: -- Russ Vought and the Trump administration lay off high numbers of federal employees?
LAWLER: No, I don't want to see that at all, but this is also why I've been opposed to the Schumer shutdown and why, regardless of who the president has been, I have always pushed back against those who try to shut the government down. It is idiotic and all it does is create chaos and uncertainty, and it harms the American people.
You have federal workers who are going without pay. Our military is not going to be paid effective the 15th of this month, Border Patrol agents. You have obviously concern about funding for critical programs like WIC and SNAP.
And, Kasie, all of this can be fixed and resolved immediately if Chuck Schumer and Senate Democrats would show up and vote yes on a clean C.R. like they did 13 times under Joe Biden. There is no reason for this.
HUNT: Congressman, one thing that Congress usually does in these instances is they pass a measure that allows troops to continue to receive their pay. Right now, that's not happening. Should House Speaker Mike Johnson bring the House back to pass a measure to pay the troops while this shutdown is going on?
LAWLER: Well, let's be clear. We did pass a measure to do that. House Republicans passed a clean C.R. three weeks ago --
HUNT: But often there is a separate piece of legislation to pay the troops.
LAWLER: But, Kasie, we've done that. We have passed a clean C.R. to keep the government funded and open, to pay our troops, to pay our Border Patrol agents, to fund critical programs like WIC and SNAP.
[16:50:08]
The president and the administration may take action to make sure that our troops are funded. And I -- and I hope they do. But again, this could all be resolved immediately. Chuck Schumer could vote yes to keep the government open and funded and make sure that none of these issues that we're all concerned about become a reality. And I just think fundamentally, the situation here is very
straightforward. Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries have shifted their previous position of passing clean cars and keeping the government funded and open because they are petrified of AOC, Zohran Mamdani and primary challenges from the left.
And they want to show them that they are standing up and fighting back against President Trump. That's what this is about. It's not about health care because I went and asked Hakeem Jeffries the other day, sign on to this bill.
HUNT: We can show a little bit of that.
LAWLER: I've signed on to legislation. Go ahead.
HUNT: Yeah. Let's show a little bit of your exchange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So I will -- I will say we're not showing the part where you get Hakeem Jeffries finger in there, but it does show up at a certain point. I did see this and wonder like, is this congress or is this a schoolyard? I mean, is this the way to do it?
LAWLER: Well, listen, the leader has been holding press conference after press conference, claiming that Republicans shut the government down. But we all know this is a Democrat-driven shutdown because they want to show their base that they are fighting against President Trump. And my point was, if there is an issue to be dealt with, like health care, then let's deal with it. Let's come to an agreement and deal with it. But you don't do it at the barrel of a gun and you don't shut down the government to stomp your feet and pound your fist and it's wrong.
HUNT: Let me ask you where you are on the merits. I absolutely take your point. And I have in my career covering Congress, heard plenty of Democrats tell me you don't shut the government down over policy disputes. So, I absolutely take your point. The sound bites exist out in the world.
But on the merits of this question around subsidies for people who are getting Obamacare plans, where are you on the substance of that? Do you think the Trump administration should be willing to take a hard look at that, and to keep those subsidies in place?
LAWLER: Well, let's look at the facts of it, right. These subsidies were put in place during COVID by the Biden administration. They were put in place for four years. They are expiring at the end of this year.
Premiums obviously, without these subsidies, will go up. But that speaks to the fundamental problem with Obamacare. Since 2010, health insurance premiums have skyrocketed by over 60 percent increases since the implementation of Obamacare. So clearly, Obamacare is not doing what it was intended to do, which is actually to reduce the cost of health care in America.
So, yes, I support legislation to extend these premium tax credits by one year so that we can actually address the longer term problem, which is the cost of health care in America. But my Democratic colleagues are saying permanent or bust. When you look at what they did with these premium tax credits, you have people making $600,000 a year getting subsidies from the American people to pay for health insurance.
That is not fair to the vast majority of Americans who clearly don't make $600,000.
So, at the end of the day, to me, there's a negotiation to be had. But you don't shut the government down over it. And my point in going to Hakeem Jeffries was to say, look, you're saying this is an issue. I agree, I'm signed on to a bill, a bipartisan bill to extend this by a year. Why won't you join me on this bill?
And he had no answer. He was stuttering. He was stammering. He was yelling. He was angry.
To me, it was ridiculous. I was asking him very simply, come on, join this bill. He's talking about, you know, your boss, Trump. He's talking about your embarrassing yourself. I was asking him a very pointed question, which is if you're saying that this shutdown is about health care, here's a solution. Join me on it. And he wouldn't do it.
HUNT: All right. Congressman Mike Lawler, I always appreciate you coming on THE ARENA. I hope you'll come back soon.
LAWLER: Thank you. Appreciate it.
HUNT: All right. See you.
All right. We do have some breaking news right now in Tennessee, a desperate search for survivors after a massive blast at a facility that manufactures explosives.
[16:55:04]
Police say that 19 people are either missing or dead at this hour. Authorities confirmed that there are fatalities, but they don't want to release a death toll yet. We're going to be following this story very closely here at CNN, and we'll bring you more as it develops.
And with that, we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HUNT: All right. Thank you all my panel for being here. It's fun to be in New York. I never get to see some of you on the regular. So really appreciate it. If you missed any of today's show, you can always catch up by
listening to THE ARENA's podcast. You scan that QR code below. You can follow along wherever you get your podcasts. You can also follow us on X and Instagram @TheArenaCNN.
Mr. Jake Tapper is standing by now for "THE LEAD".
Hi, Jake. Happy Friday.
