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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
House Speaker: Not Changing Strategy On Shutdown; Hochul Holds First Event With Mamdani Since Endorsement; Now: Trump Speaks At Presidential Medal Of Freedom Event. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired October 14, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KRISTIN FISHER, CNN SPACE AND DEFENSE CORRESPONDENT: Starting to be had about could Blue Origin ramp up the production of its lunar lander in time to make that deadline and beat China back to the moon, guys?
[16:00:12]
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Yeah, a huge difference between taking William Shatner and Katy Perry and other celebrities to space or what some describe as space, and then actually to the moon and beyond.
Kristin Fisher, so great to get your expertise. Thanks so much for being with us.
FISHER: Thanks, guys.
SANCHEZ: Great to be with you, as always.
ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: Always a pleasure, my friend.
SANCHEZ: We have to hand it off to THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT, which starts right now.
(MUSIC)
SANCHEZ: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA.
It's wonderful to have you with us on this Tuesday.
We begin today on Capitol Hill where the government shutdown now is in its 14th day. House Speaker Mike Johnson warning we could be headed toward the longest shutdown in U.S. history as tensions appear to be nearing a breaking point.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: At what point for the good of the country do you need to change your strategy to negotiate a deal with them?
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: It's a great question. Manu asks, why don't I change my strategy? I don't have any strategy, Manu. I'm doing the right thing, the clearly obvious thing, the traditional thing. That's exactly what Chuck Schumer voted for in March of this year and gave impassioned speeches, was the right and only thing.
I don't have anything to negotiate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: No strategy. That's something people in Washington usually admit out loud.
Right now, most lawmakers are back here in Washington. At some point in the next hour or so, the Senate is expected to try again to pass a measure to fund the government. If you're keeping score at home, it will be the eighth time the Senate has tried to pass the Republican version of the spending bill. And just like times one through seven, we do expect this to fail. And we expect the government to remain closed.
Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries today insisting his party wants to make a deal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): There has to be a willingness amongst Republicans to actually have a conversation and since the White House meeting over two weeks ago, Republicans have gone radio silent. Donald Trump has spent more time on the golf course than talking to Democrats on Capitol Hill.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: President Trump, however, does not seem to be in a dealmaking mood. Moments ago, he vowed to use the ongoing shutdown to permanently eliminate more federal jobs to punish Democrats.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Democrats are getting killed on the shutdown because we're closing up programs that are Democrat programs that we were opposed to. So, we're being and they're never going to come back in many cases. So, we're being able to do things that we were unable to do before.
So, we're closing up programs that are Democrat programs that we wanted to close up or that we never wanted to happen. And now we're closing them up and we're not going to let them come back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Let's get off the sidelines and into THE ARENA.
Our chief congressional correspondent, Manu Raju, is on Capitol Hill.
And, Manu, you asked the minority leader about putting a new offer on the table as we head into this 14th day, what's the mood like right now?
RAJU: It's very grim. And there's a real belief that this shutdown could extend for weeks longer and could very well be the longest shutdown in American history. The longest one, of course, went from 2018 to 2019, lasted 35 days.
How long this will go is a major concern here on the Hill, because both sides say that the ball is in the other sides court. You have Republicans saying pass the short term spending bill to keep the government open, reopen the government until November 21st. Democrats are planning to block that for the eighth time in the United States Senate tonight, because they want an extension of those expiring Obamacare subsidies, in particular, as part of this plan.
Now, the Democrats have their own proposal that they put out there that Republicans have blocked. Time and again, it deals with a wide range of health care issues. But the question ultimately is what will change the dynamic? That's the question I did put to the Leader Jeffries.
I asked him, what are you planning to do to jump start negotiations here? And will you put something new on the table to get Republicans to your side? And he indicated at the moment he is not.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: Republicans have rejected the Democratic C.R. that includes all of your demands there. So why not come up with a new approach, a put a new offer on the table to try to jumpstart something rather than dig into your position?
JEFFRIES: We're open to sitting down any time, any place with anyone. In terms of our Republican colleagues, either here at the Capitol --
RAJU: But why not put a new offer on the table --
JEFFRIES: Either here at the Capitol or back in the Oval Office to have a conversation about finding a bipartisan path forward? But there has to be a willingness amongst Republicans to actually have a conversation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: And then earlier today, I asked the speaker that himself, why not change your strategy?
[16:05:02]
Because you're going out there every single day bashing Democrats, saying that they need to accept their bill. Democrats aren't budging. Why not at least sit down and talk?
And he said there's nothing to negotiate. He said, this is the bill. They need to pass the bill. He said he's not going to play Chuck Schumer, the Senate Democratic leader's, quote/unquote, game.
So that's where things stand. Unlike past shutdowns where there could be around the clock negotiations, they're working through the weekend trying to potentially find a solution to avert this damaging crisis, there are no negotiations, no talks. The House is out of session yet again, and the speaker has no plans to bring the House back into session until the Senate Democrats agree to their plan. Senate Democrats say they don't plan to agree to that.
And also, the Senate, Kasie, could be gone as early as Thursday from this week. They're coming back today after a four-day weekend. So just a lot of questions and concerns that this very damaging crisis could drag on for quite some time -- Kasie.
HUNT: All right. Manu Raju for us on the Hill. Manu, thanks very much for that.
And joining us now to discuss Democratic senator from Maryland, Chris Van Hollen. He sits on the senate foreign relations and appropriations committees, among others. And, of course, represents thousands, tens of thousands of federal workers in Maryland.
Senator, thanks very much for being with us.
I think my top of the line question now, as it's very clear, a lot of our neighbors and friends here in Washington work for the federal government. You're starting to see implications at Smithsonian institutions, the National Zoo canceling events for kids. How is this helping the American people right now?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): Well, Kasie, it's not helping the American people. That's why I've now voted seven times in the Senate and will vote an eighth time this evening to keep the federal government open.
But to do so without giving Donald Trump a total blank check to continue his illegal activities, which from day one have harmed federal employees and to deal with the health care crisis that is about to be triggered because Republicans left a ticking time bomb on health care. And we would like to have a discussion with the president of United States.
He's been working to try to bring an end to the conflict in the Middle East. But he's unwilling to address the situation right here at home and talk to Democrats about ending the Trump shutdown. And you mentioned the earlier record shutdown. Remember, that was during Trump's first administration. We're now in the second Trump shutdown.
HUNT: But let's be realistic. Democrats could decide. Chuck Schumer could decide to vote to pass the C.R. again.
Why not do that?
HOLLEN: Well, because we've seen what -- what's happened since day one of the administration, right? I mean, they have fired federal employees in the absence of a shutdown. In fact, they have less legal authority to fire federal employees in a shutdown than in the absence of a shutdown. The judge will decide preliminary motion in that case tomorrow. But they've had Elon Musk and his chainsaw since day one. I just met
today, Kasie, with fired federal employees from much earlier in the administration. So, what I'm hearing from federal employees is they want some kind of assurance that this kind of illegal activity won't continue.
But Trump's unwilling to do that. He's willing to give the president of Argentina $20 billion of taxpayer money, but he's not willing to work to end this shutdown.
HUNT: Senator, did you agree with Senator Schumer's assessment in an interview that he did with punchbowl, that the situation gets better by the day for Democrats as this shutdown drags on?
HOLLEN: Kasie, I really don't see it that way. I see this as being bad for the country. Republicans or Democrats. And the reality is these patriotic federal employees are being unfairly punished for something they had nothing to do with. And when you punish federal employees, you're actually punishing the American people by depriving them of the benefit of the important services that those federal employees perform.
I do want to make the point that the Trump administration is now viciously terrorizing federal employees. Some of them claim that when you're in a shutdown, they have to fire federal employees. That's just a lie.
You furlough federal employees, but there's no previous shutdown where administrations have fired federal employees. And I think it's very important that public understand that this is gratuitous cruelty that's also hurting the American people by depriving them of the benefit of that good work.
HUNT: Senator, while I have you, I also want to talk to you about what we saw unfold yesterday in the Middle East, which, of course, was that ceasefire in Gaza.
[16:10:07]
And you recently visited the region. Youve obviously weighed in on foreign policy issues as part of your role on the committee. I want to play something the president said earlier today. He was asked about a key piece of what comes next, which is this question about Hamas disarming. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And if they don't disarm, we will disarm them, and it will happen quickly and perhaps violently. But they will disarm. Do you understand me?
REPORTER: Yes.
TRUMP: Because you always -- everyone says, oh, well, they won't disarm. They will disarm. And I spoke to Hamas and I said, "You're going to disarm, right?" "Yes, sir, we're going to disarm." That's what they told me. They will disarm. We will disarm them. Got it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Remarkable, the president says there that he spoke directly to Hamas. But of course, saying that directly, we will disarm them. Did you read that as him saying American troops will be involved in that effort? And what would your reaction to that be?
VAN HOLLEN: It wasn't clear to me, Kasie, what the president meant. In fact, he's often -- he often makes these statements that are very difficult to interpret. It is going to be very important that the United States and the other parties to this agreement make sure that all of the signatories, all of the participants comply with its terms.
You know, right now, we're in the early days, thank goodness we have the hostages back home. Thank goodness we have a ceasefire. And a surge of humanitarian assistance that's supposed to flow into Gaza. But the next steps are going to be very important, and it will require, you know, Trump's continued engagement to address the other issues that were part of his 20-point plan.
HUNT: And finally, before I let you go, we heard today from the front runner in the New York mayoral race, Zohran Mamdani, who appeared with the governor of New York. He has pledged to enforce the ICC arrest warrant for the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu. You've endorsed Mamdani. Do you think he should enforce that warrant if he's elected?
VAN HOLLEN: Well, I have endorsed Mamdani. He is the Democratic nominee. He won with a big, big plurality of the vote. And he is generating lots of support from New Yorkers.
You know, my view is that the future mayor of New York should focus on issues important to the city of New York. Others continue to drag him into these foreign policy issues, and he obviously will express his views --
(CROSSTALK)
HUNT: But he was the one who said this and obviously, Netanyahu comes for the U.N. I mean, it's relevant.
VAN HOLLEN: Yeah, it is. It is relevant. Look, I have been -- I've made clear that war crimes have been committed in Gaza. They've been committed also by Hamas against Israel. And it is important that the International Criminal Court be allowed to do its work.
So, I oppose the efforts of the Trump administration to undermine its work, to try to sanction the ICC. That's sort of a mafia style approach to a judicial body. As to the decisions with respect to Netanyahu, we do have a tradition of allowing all representatives of all countries to come to the United Nations in New York, the Trump administration violated that rule when they essentially denied the Palestinian Authority the ability to come to the last U.N. General Assembly.
HUNT: All right. Senator Chris Van Hollen, thanks very much for your time, sir. Always great to talk to you. Thanks for being here.
VAN HOLLEN: Good to be with you.
HUNT: All right. Our panel is here in THE ARENA. National political reporter for "Axios", Alex Thompson; CNN special correspondent Jamie Gangel; the former communications director for the DNC, Mo Elleithee, and former Republican congressman from Michigan, Peter Meijer.
Welcome to all of you. Thank you very much for being here.
Jamie, can we just stop for one second on what he didn't say there about Zohran Mamdani and the -- what we saw yesterday with the hostages and this question about whether he would enforce, this warrant.
It is a little bit difficult. I mean, Mamdani has clearly tried to distance himself on this from some of his past comments, but it's still not super clear to me.
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: The way someone described it is he is evolving on this position. We're not quite to Mamdani 2.0, but look, since -- since September, he has been meeting with powerful people in New York, with business executives, with fundraisers, and he has been tweaking his position but he is not --
HUNT: Yeah.
GANGEL: -- gone all the way.
[16:15:06]
HUNT: All right. We're going to dig more into Mamdani a little bit later in the program.
But, Alex Thompson, let's talk about the government shutdown, right, and the dynamics at play here. Obviously, Chuck Schumer was quoted as saying this is working for Democrats. They see political upside in this. What's your latest reporting on whether that's actually true and what the pressures are going to be?
ALEX THOMPSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think a lot of Democrats believe that's true, but really wish Chuck Schumer had not said it because and you saw it in his comments there where he said, I don't think that's the right approach. We're sympathizing with federal bureaucrats. You saw it with Mark Kelly in his interviews over the weekend.
A lot of Democrats do believe they do have the political advantage. You also saw, you know, the super PAC supporting Senate Democrats come out with a memo saying, hold the line. Chuck Schumer has been successful in not having any more defections from Senate Democrats. Besides those initial three, in part because they do believe they have political advantage. But when you start bragging that a lot of people that you know, that
you are winning politically, even though a lot of people are actually feeling real effects, it does not endear you to members of your party.
HUNT: Yeah.
Mo, how would you assess this?
MO ELLEITHEE, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, DNC: Yeah, I don't think part out loud. But look, I think, I was -- last time we did this dance. I actually sided with Schumer. I actually thought he was right the last time when he voted to help pass the continuing resolution.
But since then, I've evolved, right? Since then, I think a lot of people have seen that the Republicans on this issue of protecting people's health care have not been acting in good faith, and that's a line Democrats are always happy to draw. They're always happy to stand up when it comes to protecting people's health care.
So I don't know what's going to break this. The Republicans keep saying that there's nothing to negotiate. There actually is. Weve had members of Congress, members of the Senate say, well, just vote our way and trust us. We'll deal with this on the other side.
Democrats have been asking them to deal with this for the better part of a year. And this is the time when people have to start making budget decisions based on their health care costs.
So, I get why Democrats are pushing. And, you know, the Republicans can play a role in this, too.
HUNT: Congressman, how do you see it? I mean, Mike Johnson basically said, I don't have a strategy here.
PETER MEIJER (R), FORMER MICHIGAN CONGRESSMAN: The House did its job. They passed a continuing resolution.
HUNT: Well, his strategy has been to simply keep the House, you know, out of town. But do you think at the end of the day, Republicans are going to have to cave on this? I mean, do you see the politics of this the way the rest do?
MEIJER: I mean, I agree that I don't think this is good for the Democrats. I mean, you have Donald Trump negotiating Mideast peace and flying to Egypt to oversee an agreement between Hamas and Israel. And meanwhile, Chuck Schumer is parading around the senate trying to stage a photo op. I mean, the split screen between actual governance of the Trump administration and just a Senate Democrats trying to figure out their message, right?
Senator Van Hollen pointed out. Or he called it, excuse me? He called the expiring Obamacare subsidies a ticking time bomb. The Republicans planted. They were introduced in ARPA, the American Rescue Plan in 2021. I know I was in Congress. We all voted against it on the Republican side. That was a Democrat budget reconciliation bill. It got to the Senate, and it needed 50 Senate votes. They talked about
making it permanent, could not get unified Democratic support to make it permanent. It came up again in the Inflation Reduction Act. They kicked the can down the road again, solely Democrats voting in support of this could not get Democrats to agree to make these permanent.
And now, somehow, years later, as the Republicans that are the sticking point. You were right. In March, sir, Chuck Schumer should just continue to reopen the government. And right now, Donald Trump is having to take tariff revenue to support food stamp and WIC programs. He's reallocating budgets within DOD so that troops are getting paid. He's actually doing work, and Democrats are still figuring out their message.
HUNT: All right. Well, we've got apparently many more days to argue about this because the shutdown is not ending any time soon.
Coming up here in THE ARENA, the shocking video released today showing the moment a man set fire to the Pennsylvania governor's mansion and what Josh Shapiro, the governor, is saying today.
But first, New York governor -- New York's governor making her first campaign appearance with mayoral candidate Zohran Mamdani. What they're both saying after new attacks just today from President Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: She's down and dirty. He's a communist. He hates police. He wants to get rid of all police. I mean, how can a policeman -- he hates Jewish people and yet he's got Jewish people supporting. He hates Jewish people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:24:14]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. KATHY HOCHUL (D), NEW YORK: Among my many conversations with Assemblyman Mamdani, we've also talked about the need for affordable housing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Democratic candidate for mayor Zohran Mamdani just wrapped an event alongside the New York Governor Kathy Hochul. It's their first since she endorsed him last month in the New York mayoral race. It's one of the most closely watched races of this election cycle.
His event with Hochul coming on the heels of a rally last night that featured an impassioned appearance from recently indicted New York Attorney General Letitia James.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LETITIA JAMES (D), NEW YORK ATTORNEY GENERAL: I will not give in! I will not give up!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: With Election Day just three days away, Mamdani has emerged as the clear frontrunner in that race. The latest Quinnipiac poll finding him 13 points ahead of former Governor Andrew Cuomo, of course, running as an independent.
[16:25:04]
President Trump today saying a possible Mamdani win would be nothing but a, quote, fluke.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If somebody's going to be a communist mayor of New York, it's a fluke if he gets in. There are a lot of failed people that he's running against.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Our panel is back on the left side. We are joined by our arena text chain. They've got additional analysis from some of our top reporters and contributors.
Alex Thompson, that event that Mamdani did with Kathy Hochul today, they almost looked like -- well, she -- I wasn't sure she wanted to be there necessarily based on the body language, but she showed up.
How are Democrats feeling about this race right now?
THOMPSON: Okay, so here's the subtext, Kathy Hochul --
(LAUGHTER)
THOMPSON: Kathy Hochul has a reelection next year. She already is going to get primary challengers. She initially did not support -- endorse Mamdani, then eventually did. You know, she needs to make sure that she does not get a challenge from her left next year.
Now, what's going to be really fascinating is if and when Mamdani does win in November, that means the whole next the very beginning of his mayoralty, she's going to still need to back up her left flank. And does that mean that she is more willing to go along with some of the things that he is calling for? He notably has not endorsed her reelection bid. He has kept that leverage over her.
Tish James, the thing to remember about that, she hates Andrew Cuomo. Andrew Cuomo hates her. That is -- that is as much of the reason why she was there as anything else.
HUNT: Wait, so give us a little bit more backstory on Letitia James and Andrew Cuomo and why this dynamic exists. THOMPSON: Tish James ran for governor also was the one that
investigated Andrew Cuomo over the sexual harassment allegations. Cuomo has called those politically motivated. So, you notice that when Cuomo, when it looked like Letitia James, is going to be indicted by the Trump administration, Cuomo was like, it's bad if both sides do it.
And so, there is like a lot of subtext and very New York rich relationships going into what's going on here.
HUNT: Love this. When we, like, really dig into a place where you're like, you are so zoned in. I mean, Mo, did he miss anything?
ELLEITHEE: You set it up pretty well. And that's the thing people got to remember is that particularly when it comes to mayor's races, like these things, they're local. They're full of, like, personal vendettas. And -- and so sometimes we try to extrapolate what it means nationally when so much of this is local and personal.
But, look, you know, I'm not surprised that the governor was standing there. The right thing for her to do politically for many of the reasons you just talked about. You know, I thought it was interesting that Mamdani said in that rally, I am the future of the soul of the Democratic Party. Maybe that's true in New York. I think he's going to be an important voice in the Democratic Party.
But remember, at the same time, he's leading and likely to become the mayor elect, Abigail Spanberger is likely to become the governor-elect in Virginia, and she comes from a very different wing of the party. She's running a very different kind of campaign. She is not the kind of candidate he is, but they are both doing something very similar.
They're both talking about real issues. They're not taking the bait on a lot of the other stuff that people are throwing at them. They're talking about real issues, maybe different issues, maybe issues that resonate differently in Virginia than they do in New York.
And that's, I think, where Democrats are, at least in 2025, Democrats are starting to get the picture that talking about results on issues that matter to people. And that's different than what we've done in the past couple of cycles.
HUNT: Yeah, I want to play a little bit more of what Letitia James had to say at that event, because of course, this was -- these were fiery remarks from her in the wake of the indictment that she is now facing in the eastern district of Virginia.
Let's watch a little bit more of what James said last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES: I know what it feels like to be attacked for just doing your job. But I also know what it feels like to overcome adversity. And so, I stand on solid rock.
And I will not bow. I will not break. I will not bend. I will not capitulate. I will not give in. I will not give up!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Now, of course, Jamie Gangel -- this is different from what Mo was talking about in terms of Democrats who could run on issues. This is a Democrat who is I'm not exactly sure what office she's running for, exactly. But she is campaigning as the anti-Trump Democrat.
GANGEL: No question. And she's, you know, involved in Trump going after her. And so, that's what she's responding to.
Can I go back to what Mo said about Mamdani just for a second? He is so charismatic.
[16:30:00]
He is 33 years old. Nobody knew him a year ago. Now you can't walk down the street in New York without people stopping him.
But his ideas for policy things like free buses, free childcare, you know, freezing, rent stabilization, they are probably not practical things that the city has money for, that the governor is going to be able to support, that the state legislature is going to support. The thing that I keep hearing from New Yorkers is, yes, he is charismatic, but can he run the city?
HUNT: Yeah. So, I want to redirect our conversation a little bit because we have some new sound just in. These are -- this is Jack Smith, who, of course, led the investigation into Donald Trump as special counsel. He made some of his first ever public comments about those investigations and about his view of the current Justice Department. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACK SMITH, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL: I worked in the department for years, Republican, Democrat, Republican. I worked in the -- I was the acting U.S. attorney in the first Trump administration in Tennessee. Nothing like what we see now has ever gone on.
This case in New York City, where the case against the mayor was dismissed in the hopes that he would support the president's political agenda -- I mean, just so you know, nothing like it has ever happened that I've ever heard of.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Okay, so those comments were made on October 8th. So, a little while ago, I think we had not yet learned of the Letitia James indictment at that point.
But, congressman, can I bring you into this conversation here? Because obviously you were at the Capitol January 6th. You voted the way you did. We then saw Jack Smith do the investigation. He's now commenting in public.
Obviously, the president reelected in that period of time. How do you think about or consider what he said there?
MEIJER: I mean, I think if you're looking at the sweep of the DOJ and just thinking back, Clinton administration onwards or Bush administration onwards, it's going to look very different than if you go back to an older school version of American politics.
Now, I will say again, as somebody who closely watched that investigation and was like, hey guys, the months and years are ticking by. Oh, wait, you're waiting until before the election to drip, drip, drip all these things out. Oh, you're pushing forward to the indictment, running it right up.
Well, some things in the midterms and then additional elements waiting until closer to the 2024 election.
HUNT: Do you think back -- did the timing of this to try and affect electoral politics?
MEIJER: The timing was incredibly convenient.
HUNT: Well, I mean, if you ask Democrats who were watching Merrick Garland --
MEIJER: They wanted --
HUNT: -- to take their time. They wanted it faster.
MEIJER: Yes, yes.
HUNT: Right.
MEIJER: And they didn't go faster, right?
HUNT: Right.
MEIJER: I mean, that was the frustration with Merrick Garland. But I -- and I saw in real time how the American public lost interest, stopped caring. And then you had some of the prosecutions which bordered on. I mean, we saw some of those get turned or thrown out by Supreme Court rulings in terms of overzealous prosecution going after folks.
I had a friend who never entered the Capitol, had armed police banged on his door. I mean, the guy would have surrendered voluntarily. Like it got to the point where the Democrats forced their hands so much that the sympathetic card flipped, right? And that -- I'm not sitting here -- you know, it's disappointing.
HUNT: Jamie?
GANGEL: I -- you know, I may be wrong, but to me, what you're saying, the blame about delays falls on Merrick Garland, not on Jack Smith. He was given a case to pursue very far down the road.
MEIJER: And it also -- you're right in terms of that, how the DOJ was doing it. GANGEL: My goodness.
MEIJER: No, but it was also dependent in dovetailed with the January 6th investigation taking place.
GANGEL: Absolutely. I mean, you forced -- the January 6th Committee forced the Justice Department's hand, so that didn't happen for a long time. But I don't think people hold Jack Smith responsible. I think they hold Merrick Garland more responsible for the delay.
I'm actually fascinated to see him out here speaking. There are a lot of threats against him. It's been a pretty scary time for him and his family.
HUNT: Alex Thompson I mean, how did you hear the comments that he made? Because he has, as Jamie points out, become a very public villain for Republicans. Democrats, of course, have honestly been more frustrated with Merrick Garland behind the scenes than with Jack Smith.
I also -- I share Jamie's surprise that he was speaking in public.
THOMPSON: Yeah, because he kept a very low profile as most special counsels do. I mean, he, you know, in the end, he didn't -- I mean, you say like, oh, drip, drip, drip, before the election, he didn't do -- he didn't bring any -- like there was no trial before the election or anything else.
[16:35:09]
And then he basically resigned because he saw the writing on the wall.
Now, I think what he is saying you know, especially about the Eric Adam's indictment, that or potential that that was dismissed and that was brought by a lawyer that had ties to the Federalist Society and was conservative. And, you know, I think a lot of -- there's this frustration that Republicans are deflecting from accusations of politicizing the Justice Department by saying, well, you guys did it first. And that's not really a defense of what they're doing now.
MEIJER: Sure. Yeah. And that, I think, is a game as old as time in Washington, right? Who started it? Who did it worse.
The feeling on the right is that the weaponization of these institutions, again, we can judge this on its merits, but the feeling is that the weaponization of those institutions over the years has been heavily biased against Republicans, that if, you know, for my friends, anything for my enemies, the law that that was applied against the right.
And so now, rather than saying, hey, let's get back to neutral, that ratchet only went one way. This is the opportunity to turn it back. Again --
GANGEL: I would just say two words. I don't -- Hunter Biden. I don't think Hunter Biden feels that, you know, that was the case. MEIJER: Well, he got his pardon. So --
HUNT: All right. We're going to look at -- we're going to watch a little bit more from Jack Smith. Just ahead, we've got other conversations to have here as well. We here, we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:40:47]
HUNT: All right. Welcome back to THE ARENA. President Trump is walking to the podium for a Presidential Medal of Freedom ceremony posthumously honoring Charlie Kirk. Let's listen.
TRUMP: Thank you very much, everybody, please. This is such an honor. This is the -- please, be seated.
This is the first time we've been at the new and improved Rose Garden. And people are loving it. They're loving it like they've not loved a lot of things.
We have the presidential walk of fame, which you just saw, and just opened, and we wanted to get it open for this occasion. We were hoping we were able to get outside and the weather allowed us to.
It was supposed to be terrible, rainy day. I was telling Erika, and God was watching and he didn't want that for Charlie. He just didn't want that.
So, it's really a beautiful. Couldn't -- couldn't be more beautiful.
Today, we're here to honor and remember a fearless warrior for liberty, beloved leader who galvanized the next generation like nobody I've ever seen before. And an American patriot of the deepest conviction. The finest quality and the highest caliber, the late, great Charlie Kirk.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: Five weeks ago, our nation was robbed of this extraordinary champion. He was a champion in every way. I got to know him so well. He didn't like losing. And he was able to fight people that were enemies. And he didn't necessarily love those enemies so much.
You know, I heard -- I heard he loved his enemies. And I said, wait a minute, is that the same Charlie that I know? I'm not sure, but I didn't want to get into it.
But it was a horrible, heinous, demonic act of murder. He was assassinated in the prime of his life for boldly speaking the truth, for living his faith and relentlessly fighting for a better and stronger America. He loved this country, and that's why this afternoon it's my privilege to posthumously award Charles James Kirk our nation's highest civilian honor, the Presidential Medal of Freedom. Thank you. As you know, only hours ago, I returned from a very historic trip to
secure peace in the Middle East. People said that couldn't be done. Charlie felt it could be done. Charlie felt it could be done.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much.
But I raced back halfway around the globe. I was going to call Erika and say, Erika, could you maybe move it to Friday? And I didn't have the courage to call, but you know why I didn't call? Because I heard today was Charlie's birthday and I said, you know, now that was a definite. And I said, we're going to have to forget about some of those very big, very rich countries that expected me to be there.
And I can tell you based on the length of that flight, I wouldn't want to go back tomorrow, but I would not have missed this moment for anything in the world. Nothing. And it's a very important time for our country, and our country is doing so well. It's never done better.
We are a country with almost now $18 trillion of investment coming in. Nobody's ever seen anything like that previous administration had less than a trillion for four years. We have more than 18. It will be much more than 20 by the time the year -- more than $20 trillion has never been a country in the world that had anything like that. What's happened to our country is incredible.
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In a short period of time, Charlie was a big person for, sir, can we close up those borders, please? A little bit, you know? They're really leaking badly. I said, Charlie, I haven't gotten there yet, but, you know, it came out last four months literally nobody was allowed into our country. And the only people that were allowed in were people that came in legally. The borders are absolutely stone-cold closed, and they reported zero, zero, zero, and zero. So that's pretty good.
But he was a big believer. He wanted people in the country -- more than I did, frankly. He wanted them to come in legally and he got his wish.
October 14th is Charlie's birthday and he should have been turning 32 years old. I tell you, I never -- when I first met him, he was like 22 and I said, boy, he's awfully young. But I thought he was older than that. You know, he looked a little bit older than his age. That's okay.
You know, that's not good when you're old, but when you're young, it's great. He had the best of all things. But he was special.
But instead, Charlie is attaining a far more important milestone. We're entering his name forever into the eternal roster of true American heroes. He's a true American hero, an amazing person, way, way beyond his years.
And I'm honored to be joined by a woman who has endured unspeakable hardship with unbelievable strength. And that's Charlie's widow, Erika.
And I just want to thank you, Erika. He loved you so much. I was with him. Please. Thank you, darling. Thank you.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: I was with him before I met Erika. And he told me he was going to get married. He said, you won't believe how beautiful she is. I said, well, then, now that I meet her, he's right.
But then he also said, and you know what? She's like the smartest person I know. See, they do go together on occasion. Not often, not often, but on occasion they go together.
But he was -- he was in love with you. He was deeply in love with you. It's great.
Erika, your love and courage have been an inspiration to all of us, and we will always be here for you. And we're always going to be here for your gorgeous, beautiful children. And we'll never forget what your family has sacrificed for our country.
Man loved our country. When things were going badly for our country, he was so -- as you know, angry. He would get angry because he said, it doesn't have to be that way.
We're also pleased to be joined by an incredible group of Charlie's friends, very powerful friends, actually, and some not so powerful. And they're actually better people. Okay? I know they're the less powerful ones. I have to tell you that all of you power guys down here, the best ones in the group, are the ones that are less successful. But that happens, too.
Now, they're all great and they're here. And let's start with Erika's father. Where is Erika's father? Where are you? Where are you, dad?
Oh, look at him. Wow. I want to get a hat like that, too. I like that.
How are you? Nice to see you again.
Thanks as well to Vice President J.D. Vance, who's been fantastic. J.D., thank you very much.
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TRUMP: Great. Doing a great job. Did a great job on Sunday with George Slapadopoulos, I think. Put him away pretty good.
Second lady who is a phenomenal woman, Usha Vance. Thank you very much, Usha. Thank you very much. Great woman.
President of Argentina, he wanted to be here. That's Argentina's a serious flight, right? And he's become a superstar and he's doing amazing things. It's -- he's a MAGA person, but it's make Argentina great again. That's what he does, right?
And I want you to stand, please, Javier.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: Javier Milei doing a great job. Thank you very much.
Many members of my cabinet are here. Just about all of them are here. I won't go into every single one of them, but I'll announce a few of the people that have really turned this country around and helped me, incredible people.
Speaker of the House Mike Johnson. Where is Mike? Mike.
What a job you're doing, Mike. What a job you're doing. And I watched you this morning and you're in there trying to say, look, just let the country open and everything will be fine.
[16:50:00]
We're dealing with some radical left lunatics, and I just wish Charlie was here to fight us. I think the fight would have been over already. He would have had a march on the Capitol by people whose average age is about 21, because there's nobody that had that relationship with young people, right, Mike?
So, thank you, Mike, for being here.
House Majority Leader Steve Scalise -- Steve, thank you very much.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: Brave, a brave guy and a friend.
House majority whip, another terrific man, Tom Emmer. Tom. Thank you, Tom.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: Senate Majority Whip John Barrasso. John, thank you very.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: You have all these senators. I'm going to get in trouble. I'm not going to read all their names. I'll be reading all day. We'll be talking about Charlie in about 45 minutes from now, we can't do that.
So, all of the senators, there are so many of you. Thank you very much.
I do want to thank Senator Thune for doing a terrific job. He's really been leading properly.
Do you agree, Mike?
The team, the two of these guys have been fantastic. So, to Senator Thune -- I want to thank you very much incredible job. I watched him this morning and he was out there pounding him this morning on television, too.
And John Barrasso, thank you for the work you've done. And congratulations on your success.
But I want to thank you all and all of the congress people that are here.
I see we have our attorney general here. So -- and you are doing a fantastic job. Thank you very much, Pam. Thank you. Thank you very much.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: We have everybody. Wow. That's incredible.
Okay. I'm not going to do any more. It's going to be here too long. But I just want to thank -- you have given him such support. But he always gave you such support. Thats why you're here and very unusual.
Charles James Kirk was a visionary and one of the greatest figures of his generation. He was truly an amazing figure, and growing leaps and bounds. He knew that the fight to preserve our heritage is waged not only on the battlefield and in the halls of power, of which we have tremendous power here, including the head of a place called war. We call it now war.
We had defense. We had our secretary of defense. Now we have a secretary of war. And somehow, I think it's more emblematic and hopefully, we'll never have to use war.
But the fact that we're ready is very good. Peace through strength is very important, but also in the hearts of our nation's youth. That's where Charlie rode strongest at age 18.
That insight inspired Charlie to found the organization that ultimately touched the lives of millions and millions of people and so many young people that nobody's ever seen anything like it, frankly.
Turning Point USA, it's amazing. And it's actually bigger now. It's become bigger in the last few weeks than Charlie ever thought.
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TRUMP: I think his end vision in many years from now would have been just a fraction of what it turned out to be in a couple of weeks, right? It's amazing.
With hard work and joyful spirit and endless enthusiasm and determination. And he did have great enthusiasm. You know, I always say you need enthusiasm to be successful. Enthusiasm.
Charlie grew Turning Point into the largest conservative youth organization in the entire country. He forged a personal bond with countless young conservatives. He fought for free speech, religious liberty, strong borders, and a very strong and proud America. In everything he did, he put America first. He really put America first. And ultimately, Charlie became more than a leader of an important
organization. He became the leader of historic movements all over the country. There were movements, individual movements. One movement.
But it was historic. Everything he did was historic and a true evangelist for the cause of freedom and the word of Almighty God. God was very important to Charlie. He would say, you know, if you don't have religion, you're not going to have a strong country. It's true. He was so wise beyond his years.
You know, I talked to him sometimes and say, this guy is like a young guy. He was really a wise man.
From the time Charlie worked on my presidential campaign in 2016, and he was there right from the beginning. He liked me. I don't know, I have no idea why. What the hell was he thinking?
He said, you're going to win, sir. I said, you know, I'm running against 17 senators and a lot of tough people and governors. We have all these people.
And he said, no, you're going to win, sir. He said, not going to be close. And he made it happen. He helped make it happen. I'll tell you that.
Without him, who knows what would be. Maybe you'd have Kamala standing here today.
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That would not be good.
I will tell you, Javier, you don't know who Kamala is. Promise. It would not be good.
You agree with that, Howard?
He also mobilized countless citizens to go vote. Its called go vote, very simple. And with his help, in 2024, we won more young people than any Republican by far in the history of our country. And we won the popular vote. We won them.
Remember they said, oh well, if Trump could win four, that would be nice. I win seven by a lot by a landslide. But the popular vote was massive, and we won the Electoral College.
Remember they said, well, it's going to be very hard. I'd say 270. Well, we got 312 to 226 and then we won something called districts and councils and different things. But in one case, we won 2,750 to 525. That's the one where you see the map is almost entirely red, except they have a little blue line on one side and a little blue line meaning New York and a little bit Los Angeles.
I have a feeling that if the vote were 100 percent we would have won that too. You want to know the truth? But he knew, and he knew very well. And he also understood honesty. And he was always concerned with honesty. He said, the only way we can lose is if the cheating gets so bad.
And that's where we came up with a little phrase too big to rig. We said, go out and vote. Just go out and vote. And we had that. Remember we used to say that all the time because people would say, oh, they're going to win. We don't have to vote.
Let's go to a movie. We'll come home and watch later, and he wasn't about that. So, we had -- we come up with really together. We came up with that phrase, we've got to make it too big.
I never made a speech where I didn't say at the end, now look, the polls are showing. Good. Don't believe the polls said were going to make it, Susie, right? Too big to rig. So, if you think we're going to win by a lot, it doesn't matter.
Pretend we're losing. You got to go out and vote. They voted. And at 9:02 the whole thing was over, right, 9:02.
Remember they said, oh, this could go a few days. Well, when a few minutes, 9:02. And he knew that and I felt it, but he knew it. He knew it. I think he knew it more than anybody.
But Charlie never missed an opportunity to remind us of the Judeo- Christian principles of our nation's founding, or to share his deep Christian faith in his final moments, Charlie testified to the greatness of America and to the glory of our savior, with whom he now rests in heaven.
And he is going to make heaven. I said, I'm not sure I can make it, but he's going to make it. He's there. He's looking down on us right now. It's so incredible.
Look at this. How this turned out. This was supposed to be so dark and cloudy. Not dark and cloudy, is it? Look at that. How beautiful that is.
There's no artist that can -- can capture it, as beautiful as it is today. Wow. It's amazing.
As I said on the day that he was assassinated, Charlie Kirk was a martyr for truth and for freedom. And from Socrates to think and to Saint Peter, from Abraham Lincoln to Martin Luther King, those who change history the most. And he really did, have always risked their lives for causes they were put on Earth to defend.
He was put on Earth to do exactly what he was doing. He didn't want to waste time. He would have been a top student at any college in the country. I know the college as well. He was smarter than the guys there. He was so smart.
But he almost, I guess didn't have the time. It was -- he knew what he wanted to do. It wasn't like -- I want to sit in a classroom for four years listening to people teach me liberal principles, because they were never going to teach him that anyway.
But he didn't have the time. He really didn't have the time. But every time the enemies of goodness and virtue tried to silence the voice of righteous and noble leaders like Charlie, they failed. They seem to fail.
Ultimately, they look like they're doing well, and then they end up failing, because the truth has been unrelenting over the years, over history and people like Charlie. It's just they've got a power that others don't have, and very few people will ever have.
So today, like those martyrs before him, Charlie's voice, his message and his legacy are stronger and greater than ever before. They are greater than ever before.
Look, this is a horrible event, but it brought out the greatness of Charlie. Nothing could have ever supplanted this. It's incredible, the way people are talking about him. And with great love.
I mean, I read so many stories about some of the enemies, but I watched the enemies, and it's hard for them to speak badly about him because they just don't. And then you do have people in the days since Charlie's killing, we've seen exactly why our country so dearly needed his example.
