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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt

New: Majority Leader Says Epstein Bill Could Pass Senate Today; Saudi Crown Prince Gets Elaborate Welcome At White House; Judge Blocks Texas From Using New GOP-Friendly Map In Midterms. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired November 18, 2025 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:01]

CLARE DUFFY, CNN TECH REPORTER: And on top of that, we've seen some other folks find workarounds to these kinds of A.I. age estimation tools using selfies or video game characters. Roblox says that it has fraud prevention measures in place, but that is something we'll be watching closely here as this moves forward.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: All right. Claire, thank you for that.

"THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT" starts right now.

(MUSIC)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Come on the air with breaking news. The bill to release the Epstein files could be on President Trump's desk as soon as tonight.

Hi, everyone. Welcome to THE ARENA. I'm Kasie Hunt. It's wonderful to have you with us on this Tuesday.

A wave of stunning developments on Capitol Hill, the House voting overwhelmingly to release the Epstein files. And now, the Senate majority leader, John Thune, says that since it has the presidents support, he could hold a vote as soon as today.

Let's get off the sidelines and head into THE ARENA. My panel is here.

We're also going to start with CNN chief congressional correspondent Manu Raju and CNNs senior White House correspondent, Kristen Holmes.

Manu, first to you, this timeline pretty quick.

Now, Manu appears to be talking to Thomas Massie. So maybe we'll just listen in to this for a second.

REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): Not just to do a discharge petition and get it passed through the House, but to get the Senate to pass it and get the White House to sign it. We're not there yet, but when we get there, this is not a subpoena. This is a law.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And so, you are confident that these documents will ultimately come out, even if the president tries to fight this?

MASSIE: Yes. I'm confident we sort of -- we know when they're out because we know what some of these lists, some who some of the men are. I don't have the names in my head right now. The ultimate thing that we could do is read the names on the floor of the House, and that could happen. But what needs to happen is the FBI needs to release these names.

RAJU: Is that something you might do if he resists this at the DOJ release this? Could you go to the floor and read these names?

MASSIE: We absolutely would do that. Marjorie would do that. I would do that. There are Democrats who would do that. And -- but that's not the right path forward. That's a -- that's the last effort, if we hit all of the walls. But so far, we're making it through the walls and over the walls and we're getting this done.

RAJU: How much time are you willing to give the president and the administration to release these documents when this becomes law?

MASSIE: I've never set a timeline. The victims have waited a very long time to get justice. And it's really up to them.

RAJU: Okay. All right. Congressman, thank you.

All right. I know that were on with you, Kasie. As I walk back to you and to talk to you about the conversation that I just had with Thomas Massie, you caught -- you caught the end of it right there. But we talked a little bit beforehand. I talked a little bit about just the whiplash that we are experiencing here in Washington from going from looking like that. This bill, it was unclear when the vote would happen in the house. It appeared that they were going to try to push this until early December for a vote. It appeared that it was dead in the United States Senate and then suddenly, the president reversing course, saying that, yes, Republicans should vote for this.

And then the speaker begrudgingly voting for this, and then the 427 to 1 vote in the House tonight, today, and now, the expectation that the United States Senate could pass this bill unanimously tonight, which seems like a very, very likely possibility to do that, even as the Senate majority leader, John Thune, just a few weeks ago, was throwing cold water on moving ahead with this because the president was opposed to this flatly.

And I asked him about why this happened. He said, what happened here was that the president pitted his base against Republicans in Congress, and the Republicans in Congress could not buck the base of the party.

And that's why he saw this shift. And he also said that he sensed that the party would be in dire straits heading into the midterm elections if they were seen to be on the side of covering up in the Jeffrey Epstein sex trafficking ring. So, the political dynamic in Thomas Massie's view, helped change what happened here over the last 24 to 48 hours. And a really remarkable turnaround here, where were now seeing this bill on its way to becoming law, potentially as soon as tonight because of the shift in politics and the president essentially joining the rest of his party after fighting against this bill for some time.

HUNT: Yes. The train leaving the station. Manu Raju doing what you do best. Thank you very much for that.

Kristen, is the president going to sign this, and are they prepared to do that tonight?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, President Trump committed yesterday to signing this bill if it landed on his desk now, it doesn't seem as though he believed it was going to be moving this quickly. He also said that they would wait and see what happened in the Senate. But as this is picking up momentum, I talked to White House officials who say that he is pledging to sign that bill.

Now, of course, anything is possible. Once the bill is actually on his desk. And again, the White House was not expecting this to move so quickly. In fact, just over a week ago, they didn't think this was going to happen at all. They thought that they were doing a good job at trying to keep this vote from happening, trying to keep Republicans from going all in.

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But it became clear to President Trump on Friday that he was going to lose when it came to this issue, that the vote was not only going to happen, it was going to happen. It was going to pass in the House and likely by a large margin, which, of course, we saw to be true, which then you saw President Trump reversing course.

Now, I have spoken to a number of White House officials who say that they fully expect that after this has passed, there will be new documents released by the Department of Justice. What exactly is released and when? That still remains a question.

But you could see today, President Trump sitting in a meeting, getting asked questions by a reporter on the Epstein files on the release of these documents, growing more and more irritated. This is something that has plagued him for much of his second term. This is his interaction with the reporter who pressed on Epstein.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Mr. President, why wait for Congress to release the Epstein files? Why not just do it now?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, it's not the question that I mind. It's your attitude. I think you are a terrible reporter. It's the way you ask these questions. Your company, your crappy company is one of the perpetrators. And I'll tell you something. I'll tell you something.

REPORTER: Why not just do it now?

TRUMP: I think the license should be taken away from ABC. I think the way you ask a question, with the anger and the meanness is terrible. You ought to go back and learn how to be a reporter. No more questions from you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Now, it's not that surprising to see President Trump talk to a reporter like that, but it has grown increasingly likely when he is getting questions about Epstein. Just over the weekend, when another reporter was pressing him on questions related to Epstein, he said, "Quiet, piggy" to that reporter before then turning to another reporter to take questions on Venezuela.

This has clearly gotten underneath his skin. But again, I am told by White House officials that if this lands on his desk, he's planning on signing it. They do expect more documents to be released, but there are still questions as to what exactly is going to be released and when.

HUNT: All right. Kristen Holmes, Manu Raju, thank you both very much for getting us started.

Our panel is here in THE ARENA. CNN political analyst, White House correspondent for "The New York Times", Zolan Kanno-Youngs is here. CNN special correspondent Jamie Gangel, former White House communications director Kate Bedingfield, and the Republican strategist Brad Todd, both CNN political commentators.

Thank you all for being here.

Jamie, you were watching that exchange between the ABC reporter Mary Bruce, and the president, and then, of course, there was the comment that he made the night before on the plane. What do you -- what is your assessment of why the president reacted the way he did?

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Let's be clear. He didn't like the question, and that's what he does. When he doesn't like the question, he attacks people. Donald Trump lost today. He hates that word loser.

And let's be clear, he was forced to change his position to save face because the votes were going against him. I think one question is, is this the turning point? Is this the moment when the Republicans get their spine back?

I think the answer is maybe Donald Trump is a survivor. He has survived January 6th and two impeachments. But there are two words were going to hear more and more, and those two words are "lame duck". And he is not going to like those two words.

And so, I think we're still going to see a tension between him.

HUNT: And I want to show everyone what one of the things Marjorie Taylor Greene said this morning, she, of course, has been MAGA from the beginning, which you'll hear her say. But the president in recent days has called her a traitor because she has pressed him, disagreed with him over this issue. Let's watch what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): I wasn't a Johnny come lately to the MAGA train. I was day one, 2015. And I'll tell you right now, this has been one of the most destructive things to MAGA. Watching this actually turn into a fight has ripped MAGA apart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: That, of course, at a press conference with survivors.

Brad Todd, can you just help us understand the political dynamics of what happened here? Because we don't -- we haven't seen the Republican Party or groups of Republicans stand up to the president in significant numbers, except here.

BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think Marjorie Taylor Greene is getting -- Thomas Massie are getting outsized attention here. They have very little credibility in their own conference in the House. There was the only Republicans willing to talk. So, they got a lot of media attention on it.

I think this was always going to head this way. The administration probably should have done the release on its own terms before it came to a discharge petition. I don't fault Mike Johnson at all for trying to stop a discharge petition from passing in the House. It's a terrible thing for a majority party to have, to allow to happen. And I don't think in the end this will cause a lasting rupture between the president and his supporters, because I think they mostly are behind the president.

HUNT: Why did he fight it so hard?

TODD: You know, never back down as his philosophy. More than any ideology, that's his philosophy.

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And I think -- I think he did not want to be told what he had to do on it.

KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Maybe. But he also -- he also behaved in a way that made him look guilty. I mean, there's kind of no other way around it. I mean, I understand the never back down philosophy, but when your actions telegraph that you are guilty of what you're being accused of, I'm not sure that that's a position of strength.

And I also -- I'm not -- I'm not sure I would agree that it was inevitable that it was always going to go this way. I think Massie, Greene, Lauren Boebert stood strong in a time when the White House was putting maximum pressure on her. And we've seen in other instances, like this, House Republicans who've had intense pressure from the White House have folded. And they did not.

So, I think the combination of another thing that Marjorie Taylor Greene said today that I thought was really helpful in understanding the dynamics is that this, this saga really went at undermining what people, the faith that people had in MAGA, that people were for MAGA because they felt like it was going at a government that they couldn't trust and that they didn't have faith in, and that this, this scandal really eroded that sense of that -- that MAGA is for you.

TODD: I saw Jamie Raskin said that he would welcome Marjorie Taylor Greene to the Democrat Party. And I think most of us would say, you can have her.

BEDINGFIELD: Well, listen --

HUNT: There's some truth from Brad.

BEDINGFIELD: With caveats. With caveats. But, hey, electoral politics is about bringing people into the tent. So, you know?

ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: So, it is remarkable though, just to see -- I mean, the president throughout this year has bent its institutions to his will and the private sector, universities, law firms and Congress, right? There have not been many times where Congress has rebuffed this president. And here, you saw that happen, even though. You mentioned Lauren Boebert was summoned to the Situation Room to talk about this issue.

And, yes, these are a few Republicans in Congress that are speaking out loud about this, but it does come at a time of a fissure in MAGA. And it's not just Epstein, right? Epstein, in combination with a break from the president's rhetoric to affordability prices as well, that he campaigned on, he's also been criticized for the attention on foreign policy versus domestic policy.

You are seeing some criticism, and Epstein is a data point of this, of a president who campaigned on a populist message. And now, this base saying, well, where is that populist message now that you're in office? I don't think that's limited. In fact, it's not limited just to the voices of Marjorie Taylor Greene and Thomas Massie. You're seeing polling also indicate that among Republicans as well, when it comes to his management of government.

HUNT: Yeah. Well, and, you know, we can put up some of the polling that shows how Republicans feel about how Donald Trump has handled the Epstein saga. And you can compare it to how they think he handled January 6th.

You know, in, in a different world, Jamie Gangel, I would have expected those numbers to be reversed. But I guess this is the world that we're living in now.

GANGEL: Absolutely. And just to go back that we had a CNN poll recently where his approval rating was 37 percent, an all-time low. This is -- this is not good. The economy is not good.

Affordability, which we now -- you know, it used to be it's the economy, stupid. It's now affordability.

No matter how many times he says things are great, people are going to the grocery store. They know what the prices are. HUNT: Yeah. Brad Todd, what is your sense here? Jamie used the phrase

earlier -- lame duck, right? And there does come a point in any president who is expected to be in his last term, that's maybe a different conversation for a different day, considering what some of what this president has said about that. But under our usual norms, this is his last term. And there is usually a point where the party looks around and starts to say, maybe we're going to have to figure out how to go our own way, especially when the president's approval rating is sitting at 37 percent.

Is this data point, this Epstein data point, part of that broader trend, or are we not there yet?

TODD: I don't think so. I think it's the outlier. I think the president has a sense of urgency and vigor that's pretty much unmatched. He's arguably doing too many different things at one time to suit a lot of Republicans. And I think that's because he believes he has a very short window of time to get things done. And so that's why he's moving on so many fronts so fast, so much in so many different directions.

I don't -- that's why I would say, no, I don't think this is any kind of watershed moment. I think we'll see next week hell have three more different initiatives.

HUNT: Kate, what is your sense of how Democrats are feeling about what this means for an effort? I mean, obviously they've tried to figure out how to fight against President Trump. This seems to be a win from that perspective. But, you know, polling on Democrats is also not great.

BEDINGFIELD: Yeah. Look, I think for the most part, Democrats are going to look more to the election results from two weeks ago, frankly, than they do the outcome of today. And I think what the lesson they're taking is a focus on prices, a focus on affordability. Obviously, they, we learned this lesson in a very hard way in the 2024 campaign that when people are feeling rising prices, you can't go out and tell them that the economy is doing well. And that's what we're seeing Trump do. And I think Democrats see that vulnerability.

So, while this is obviously -- this has been a moment where Democrats have in concert with Republicans, driven the president's approval rating down through conversation around Epstein. I think most Democrats look at the affordability, the central affordability argument from the elections two weeks ago and say that's -- that's where the -- that's where the future lies.

TODD: I predict for two weeks away from Democrats not wanting to talk about Jeffrey Epstein anymore because the files are going to include a lot of Democratic names, a lot of Democratic donors. And the more you know, you're going to see powerful people of all kinds. Democrats only wanted to do this to embarrass Donald Trump, and they're going to have gotten their win on that. And then they'll be done with it. They'll be on to something else.

BEDINGFIELD: But they've also been quick to -- I mean, Elizabeth Warren put out a statement criticizing Larry Summers. He was kicked off of the board at CAP. I mean, Democrats have been very quick to distance themselves from people who have showed up in these files. And I expect you will see you will see more of that as we move forward.

TODD: Yeah. All right. Coming up next here in THE ARENA, the elaborate White House welcome for a world leader that U.S. intelligence says likely ordered the brutal murder of a prominent journalist.

Also this hour, the breaking news out of Texas, what Republican Governor Greg Abbott is doing after a judge says he can't use the new congressional map he forced through.

But first, a top member of the House Oversight Committee, Democrat Raja Krishnamoorthi, is here live after that overwhelming vote today on the Epstein files.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): Why now after four years of doing nothing? Because going after President Trump is an obsession with these guys.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:21:00]

HUNT: All right. Welcome back.

We are keeping our eyes on the Senate floor where leaders are telling CNN they're going to move quickly to a vote on a bill to compel the release of the Epstein files, potentially as soon as today.

Joining us now, Democratic congressman of Illinois, Raja Krishnamoorthi. He sits on the House Oversight and Intelligence Committee.

Congressman, thanks very much for being here.

REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL): Thank you.

HUNT: The Oversight Committee, of course, has put out a lot of some of these new revelations from Jeffrey Epsteins estate. But I want to start with what this bill would do, which is to force the release of the files from the Department of Justice. And I think my top question for you is, do you think do you trust what the DOJ will be forced to put out? Are you confident that you can trust what you see?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Not yet. I think that there's going to be a lot of pressure. However, from not only Democrats, but Republicans, members of the MAGA base and others to release the files in full. One of the things I'm concerned about is an effort to maybe amend this particular bill to be able to have the greater ability to redact names and information, which I hear is an amendment that some Republicans want to do. And I think that will just invite monkey business. And we can't have

that. I think they should just take up the bill as it is, get it signed -- passed and signed into law, and then release the files.

HUNT: Do you at this point have reason to believe that there is more information in these files that DOJ has, or in additional files from the Epstein estate about President Trump?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I think so. You know, basically some of the files that we have right now have emails which you are well aware of, that make reference to certain aspects of Donald Trump and his relationship to Jeffrey Epstein. But we don't necessarily understand the context. And so, we're left wondering, okay, well, what else is in the files that could explain that?

But if I could, if I could just step back for a second, I think the real reason why this passed with such a huge vote in the House is because of the survivors and the victims of the child sex trafficking ring. I got to tell you, I met with them for three hours, along with a group of bipartisan members of the Oversight Committee.

I think that meeting helped to stiffen the resolve of people that we have to do justice by them. We have to make sure that they are able to see these files, which in many cases detail trauma and abuse, that they've long forgotten because of that abuse. And so, to do justice to them and to prevent this from ever happening again, I think there's a real desire to release the files and then hold people accountable.

HUNT: Yeah, no, it's very important. We're going to have a conversation later in the hour with Gloria Allred, specifically about those -- those experiences. If you in the committee receive more information that also implicates Democrats. I mean, some of the revelations from the files that you all put out have resulted in Larry Summers, a longtime Democratic official, stepping back from a number of his public roles because of what was exposed, are you committed to putting those emails out no matter what?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Absolutely. Nobody should be spared scrutiny as part of this particular investigation. I think that at this point, whoever emerges as having been implicated needs to be held accountable.

HUNT: And when do you think the public can expect to see more from Jeffrey Epsteins estate? I mean, we heard from Robert Garcia last night that there is another expected release coming.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Yeah, I think that they're going to produce it on a rolling basis. And so, it could literally be any time. That being said, my hope -- you know, one issue that maybe hasn't come up is that, you know, the president could release these files of his own volition today. He doesn't have to wait for this legislation to pass the Senate and get signed into law.

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He could release it today.

And so, that's something that I and others are also pressing for as well, in response to our own subpoena from the Oversight Committee.

HUNT: Sir, I also -- because, of course, you sit on the House Intelligence Committee and I do a lot of work on these issues. I want to talk to you about the visit of MBS, the Saudi prince to the White House today. He, of course, met with President Trump and the CIA has assessed that he likely ordered the killing of the journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

What was your reaction to the way President Trump welcomed him to the White House, saying, in fact, that he would shake his hand and didn't care where his hand had been, was basically the quote?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: It's disgraceful. I think it's unbecoming. It's beneath the dignity of the office of the presidency.

Here's a person, MBS, who's committed some real violations of human rights in addition to, probably ordering the murder of an American permanent resident. And so, to see that kind of treatment in the Oval Office is deeply disturbing.

I'll tell you something else that's deeply disturbing to me. The thought of selling F-35 fighter planes to the Saudis is going to undermine our own national security, in part because the Chinese communist party has its claws into information in the possession of the Saudis. And I -- I'm very concerned that were going to compromise secrets to the CCP via the Saudis as well.

HUNT: You actually took the next question on my list right off, right off my piece of paper. I was going to ask you about that. The final thing before I let you go, there, of course, was the vote in the House around your colleague Troy Garcia, who is essentially engineering his replacement in the House of Representatives. Can you explain why you voted the way you did? And for Americans who feel like the system may be rigged -- I mean, why -- why is this not an example of the system being rigged in favor of people who are already in power?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, unfortunately, it's a -- it's a relic of Illinois law that needs to be changed. And I think that we have to go to Springfield, Illinois, the capital, to change it to prevent this kind of thing from happening. But I didn't think it was appropriate, given unfortunately, the large number of people across numerous states who have engaged in this to have Chuy Garcia singled out for this type of treatment, that's why I voted no.

That being said, we have to go back to Springfield and change the law to prevent this from happening again.

HUNT: All right. Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi, thank you very much. Really appreciate your time today, sir.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Thank you so much.

HUNT: Come back soon.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Thank you. HUNT: All right. Coming up next, the court fight now coming to Texas

and how it could impact who controls Congress after the midterm elections. Plus, what the president is saying about the killing of a Saudi journalist while sitting right next to the man that U.S. intelligence says likely ordered his murder.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: You're mentioning somebody that was extremely controversial. A lot of people didn't like that gentleman that you're talking about, whether you like him or didn't like him, things happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:32:31]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We have a extremely respected man in the oval office today and a friend of mine for a long time, a very good friend of mine. And, I'm very proud of the job he's done. What he's done is incredible in terms of human rights and everything else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Seven years after the murder of the journalist Jamal Khashoggi, Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman was welcomed with open arms to the White House in a red carpet spectacle that included horses, trumpets and a flyover. The one on one in the Oval Office raised even more eyebrows as President Trump defended MBS, insisting he wasn't involved in Khashoggi's murder.

A reminder, America's own central intelligence agency assessed MBS likely ordered the killing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: You're mentioning somebody that was extremely controversial? A lot of people didn't like that gentleman that you're talking about, whether you like him or didn't like him, things happened, but he knew nothing about it. And we can leave it at that. You don't have to embarrass our guest.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Our panel is back.

Jamie Gangel, can you just walk us through? I mean, you've done so much reporting for so many years on our intelligence agencies, our national security, and the law at the significance of this, I don't want to pass over the kind of big picture meaning of the two of them seated in 2025, 24 years after September 11th, 2001.

What does it all mean? GANGEL: So, I just want to go back to the intelligence community and

the CIA that put out this report. We must say over and over again, that was Donald Trump's CIA and intelligence community. That report came out during his first administration. So he can't put it off on anybody else.

What we saw today was extraordinary. And if you go back and look at the pictures of the first arrival where they're standing outside, I will tell you, the crown prince MBS looked a little uncomfortable, maybe almost a little shell-shocked, surprised to see to be back. He has been persona non grata.

And President Trump not only welcomed him back, he was completely dismissive of these charges and our own intelligence community's report about MBS's role in it. Donald Trump is willing to put it all behind him.

You know, Kate, you said earlier that you understand the politics of the way the world works, but MBS seemed more -- I won't say apologetic, but conciliatory about what had happened than President Trump.

HUNT: How do you understand, Kate? What we should and need to be doing with Saudi Arabia versus the display that was put on at the White House today?

BEDINGFIELD: Sure. Well, look, I think in order to advance America's interests in the Middle East and beyond, I do think it is necessary for the United States to work with Saudi Arabia, certainly in the Biden administration, there was an effort to try to normalize relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel. There is a lot of important work there that goes back pre-Trump, pre-Biden, goes back many decades, and the Saudis play an important security role in the region.

And I think it would be foolish for the White House to ignore that. However, there is a difference between doing that work substantively and bringing MBS into the Oval Office and not just bringing him into the Oval Office, but bringing him into the oval office and saying he didn't know anything about that killing and essentially trying to absolve him publicly of something that our own intelligence agencies have said that he directed.

So that, to me, is was an incredibly unnecessary and frankly appalling thing to say. But the larger question of working productively with the Saudis, I think that is a responsible thing for the government of the United States to do.

KANNO-YOUNGS: He didn't just distance himself from the question when the question came up about U.S. intelligence finding that the crown prince likely directed the killing of Jamal Khashoggi. Often when there's tough questions in the Oval Office, I've seen a bunch of these meetings now, the president will almost refer to the foreign leader to answer the question and, like, defer it.

And this one, he didn't distance himself or defer. He leaned in and almost scoffed at the question. You know, on the same day that Jamal Khashoggi's widow is hoping that the White House could urge the Saudis to return the remains of Jamal Khashoggi, the president answers that question by essentially saying, well, he was a controversial figure, and many people didn't like him. Somebody who was doing his job as a journalist. It was stunning. It's a stunning moment.

HUNT: I want to watch a little bit more of what the president had to say with MBS, because he talked about and he was referring to a moment where apparently there was a fist bump from President Biden. But this is how Donald Trump discussed his greeting of MBS today. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOHAMMED BIN SALMAN, SAUDI CROWN PRINCE: We've worked with all presidents.

TRUMP: Does Trump blow them all away?

BIN SALMAN: That would be you -- tell me about me (ph), Mr. President.

(LAUGHTER)

REPORTER: Thank you.

REPORTER: Mr. President --

TRUMP: And Trump doesn't give a fist bump. I grabbed that hand I don't give a hell where that hands been. I grabbed that hand.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: I mean, Brad Todd, that hand probably has a lot of blood on it.

TODD: Well, Donald Trump is a very personal leader. This is his style, his style. And he loves to play host at the White House. He -- you may remember when Zelenskyy came to the White House, even as J.D. Vance and Marco Rubio were putting pressure on him. Donald Trump sort of took up for Zelenskyy for a while.

He likes to play presiding officer. That is a big part of his success in negotiating people. And, you know, when you ask about the U.S. relationship with Saudi, as Kate says, it's complicated. We have Iran sitting in the same region as their rival, and you have to play Saudi Arabia off Iran.

Saudi is always going to have controversies with the United States. There's a trial coming up about the 9/11 victims that we're going to learn a lot more about. I don't think we'll ever be in a place or that relationship --

HUNT: Those victims are not thrilled by the statement they put out today.

TODD: -- not complicated.

Well, they have their day in court and they deserve it. And we're going to learn a lot more when that happens.

We do need Saudi Arabia to check Iran. We do need the progress from the Abraham accords from the first administration, what Biden administration tried to continue. We need that to continue to hold Saudi Arabia in our camp, not China's camp. I want to give the president a little rope to do that.

BEDINGFIELD: And it is true, just quickly, it is true that the theatrics of these kinds of meetings are an important part of how they play out, and the choreography and the personal interaction between the leaders are important part of how it plays out.

And it may well be that that Trump's team was briefed, that Khashoggi was hoping for, wanted -- to hear Trump absolve him. I don't know that, but it is certainly possible.

TODD: MBS.

(CROSSTALK)

BEDINGFIELD: That MBS wanted to be absolved or to have a public statement where Trump said, you know, we're not concerned about this. But it is Trump's responsibility as the president of the United States to hold to a level of respecting human rights that we would expect the American president to hold to.

HUNT: Brad, on a slightly different but possibly more important topic, I mean, where are the conservative hawks on the F-35 and Saudi Arabia?

[16:40:02]

TODD: I think they're concerned. But, you know, the Saudis don't put their own troops in harm's way very often. The Iranians not only put their troops in harm's way, they empower everyone else in the region to put their troops in harm's way.

So I think the hawks are concerned about it. It's kind of like when we sold AWACS planes to them 30 years ago, that was the best technology we had at the time. So, I think there is some concern, but I also think everyone understands Iran is the worst actor in the region and we have to check them.

HUNT: All right. Fair enough.

All right. Let's turn to some breaking news on the redistricting front. A federal court has this afternoon just blocked Texas from using its newly drawn and Republican-friendly congressional map in next year's midterm elections.

CNN national political writer Fredreka Schouten joins us now.

Fredreka, can you walk us through what this judge decided?

FREDREKA SCHOUTEN, CNN POLITICS NATIONAL POLITICAL WRITER: Yeah. It's actually a three court panel and two of -- two of the judges said that this was an unconstitutional racial gerrymander. But, I mean, let's go back. I mean, this whole thing started this redistricting fight started in Texas, where after Donald Trump really urged Republicans to draw five more Republican-friendly districts for the party.

The goal is to hold on to the House, where Republicans now have a very narrow majority. You're seeing the districts that they made friendlier for Republicans. And so, this -- this three-court panel has said, no, you can't use this map. Go back to the old map.

Now, we are probably going to see this legal fight continue. It's going to go to the Supreme Court. Ken Paxton, the attorney general of Texas, has already said that he intends to appeal. And let me read to you what he said in his statement today.

He said Democratic states across the country, from California to Illinois to New York, have systematically reduced representation of Republican voters in their congressional delegations. But when Republicans respond in kind, Democrats rely on false accusations of racism to secure a partisan advantage. I will be appealing this decision to the Supreme Court of the United States.

So, this battle is going to continue. And it's -- it's also really striking that Ken Paxton talked about Democrats using the false accusations of racism, because part of this case centered on some language that came from the Trump administration itself in justifying this redraw. It centered on a letter that Harmeet Dhillon, who heads the Civil Rights Division at the Department of Justice, sent to Texas lawmakers who were sort of reluctant about doing this initially.

And she argued that the states map was a -- current -- the map that was used in the last election was an unconstitutional coalition district or districts with a nonwhite majority were not -- there's not a single racial group makes up the majority, and that's something that Greg Abbott then turned to and said, okay, we got to go in and redistrict because the DOJ is going to take legal action against us.

And so, this has come back to bite the Trump administration a bit at this point.

HUNT: All right. Fredreka Scouten, thanks very much for that report. We're going to continue to follow all of this. Coming up next here in THE ARENA, with the vote today in Congress means for the many survivors of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNIE FARMER, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: This is not an issue of a few corrupt Democrats or a few corrupt Republicans. This is a case of institutional betrayal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:47:56]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SKY ROBERTS, BROTHER OF VIRGINIA GIUFFRE: My sister is not a political tool for you to use. These survivors are not political tools for you to use. These are real stories, real trauma, and it's time for you to stop just talking about it and act.

WENDY AVIS, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: We are exhausted from surviving the trauma and then surviving the politics that swirl around it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: For survivors, today's vote to release the Epstein files is a small step in the right direction. Their voices have been absolutely critical in putting pressure on lawmakers to get to this point.

Gloria Allred has represented many of Epstein's victims. She joins us now in THE ARENA.

Gloria, thank you very much for being here today. One of our guests earlier said that testimony from these victims in private settings has been part of what made this vote almost unanimous today on the House floor.

Can you just talk to us a little bit about what this day means to people who survived this and the role they have played so far?

GLORIA ALLRED, PARTNER, ALLRED, MAROKO AND GOLDBERG: Well, I think what you've seen here is the power of empowered women, and I always say, Kasie, that there are three levels. The first is being a victim, the second is becoming a survivor, and the third is becoming a fighter for change.

And you saw that not only with the survivors who were present in Washington, D.C. today, but so many of them. And reportedly there are about a thousand of them throughout the country. And I might add, throughout many other countries in the world, because I know that of those that I represented -- I represented many, from Europe, South America, Asia, as well as the United States and elsewhere.

So they are watching and even survivors -- victims who are not victims of Epstein and Ms. Maxwell are feeling more empowered now because they can see what can be done to help win change and accountability and justice.

[16:50:12]

So, I'm very, very proud of them. And yes, they're exhausted, probably quite a few of them, but that's what it takes. You have to work hard in order to win change. Nobody gives it to women. They have to fight to win it. And they did today.

HUNT: Yeah, one remarkable dynamic here has been, of course, the president of the United States. And a number of these of the survivors that we've heard the most from Virginia Giuffre, for example, they have sometimes said that the president was not necessarily the problem, but that has changed as he has stood in the way of this. I want to play this a little bit long. It's about a minute, but I think it's important. What's the survivors had to say directly today to the president about what should be done here?

Let's watch that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENA-LISA JONES, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: I beg you, President Trump, please stop making this political. It is not about you, President Trump. You are our president. Please start acting like it.

Show some class. Show some real leadership. Show that you actually care about the people other than yourself.

I voted for you, but your behavior on this issue has been a national embarrassment.

HALEY ROBSON, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: To the president of the United States of America, who is not here today, I want to send a clear message to you. While I do understand that your position has changed on the Epstein files, and I'm grateful that you have pledged to sign this bill, I can't help to be skeptical of what the agenda is.

So, with that being said, I want to relay this message to you. I am traumatized, I am not stupid. I am traumatized, I am not stupid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Pretty remarkable, Gloria. And of course, one thing that the victims have kept coming back to is that they don't want to have to be forced to make the list themselves, even though perhaps they could. Can you expand on that a little bit?

ALLRED: Well, they can and they cant. In other words, they can disclose to their lawyers, myself, other lawyers that represent them who sexually abused, exploited, trafficked them because that is confidential. And that's attorney-client confidentiality. I can't disclose it without their permission. I wouldn't even ask for their permission under these circumstances.

But if they go out, for example, and have a press conference outside of the Capitol and they say the name of the person who abused them, they can be sued by that person because that person who is being accused, the abuser can say, look, you just defamed me. You accuse me of a crime, rape, child sexual abuse, assault. I'm innocent and I'm going to sue you. And then he does. Or he sends a letter through his attorney saying, if you don't retract, if you don't apologize, I'm going to sue you.

So that's why they can't say the names in public of outside of a confidential relationship without risking being sued. Big exception, they could go to the police or law enforcement, and some of them have entered into confidential settlements so that they can pay for their medical bills or hospital bills or therapy bills. But -- and however, one of the provisions may be a non-disclosure agreement where they can't say the name of the accused or they'll be in breach of the settlement, maybe have to give all the funds back. However, an exception is always that they can't speak to law

enforcement. They can disclose the name to law enforcement, and they can't be sued for doing that unless somehow that there was a malicious reason for doing that.

So, this is why some members of Congress have said, oh, well say the names on the on the floor of Congress, because they may have well call it immunity from being sued and if they say the name because of that special exception for, say, for a member of Congress saying it on the floor of the House or during a hearing.

HUNT: So, would you urge members of congress who can learn these names from these victims to go to the floor and lay it out there?

ALLRED: Well, I would like to see if the Department of Justice is going to release the names. If as and when they feel that they have to, because Senate votes for it. The president signs the bill.

[16:55:02]

And by the way --

HUNT: Yeah.

ALLRED: -- that isn't even necessary because the president could just say release the names.

HUNT: All right. Gloria Allred, I want to thank you very much for your time. Always appreciate having you talk to you soon. I hope.

ALLRED: Thank you very much. Thank you.

HUNT: All right. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HUNT: All right. Thanks very much to my panel. Really appreciate all of you being here today. Thanks to you at home for watching as well.

Don't forget, you can now stream THE ARENA live. You can catch up whenever you want. It's all in the CNN all access app. You can scan that QR code below on your screen.

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But definitely do not go anywhere because Jake Tapper is standing by for "THE LEAD".

Hi, Jake.