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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
New GOP Backlash Over Trump's "Locked And Loaded" Iran Threat; NYT: DOJ Reviewing More Than 5 Million Potential New Epstein Docs; New Videos Show Chaos Inside Swiss Bar As Deadly Fire Spread. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired January 02, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:01]
DR. AILEEN ALEXANDER, GENERAL PRACTITIONER AND LIFESTYLE PHYSICIAN: And once you've got that set in stone, then thinking about the tangible tips of how do we go about changing things?
So, one of the important things I always say to patients is, where do you charge your phone? Is it charged beside your bedside or is it charged in the kitchen? Because you're far less likely to use your phone first thing in the morning if it's not there.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: That is such a good point.
ALEXANDERA: A piece as well is thinking -- yeah, thinking about notifications. Should we turn notifications off on the phone? So, you need to actively go and log in rather than it buzzing and thinking as well about celebrating the small wins.
So, if you've charged your phone in another room, if you've taken the notifications off, or maybe even put your phone in a drawer, then celebrating the fact that you've done that and then reflecting rather than thinking about, oh, I didn't do that right, or I didn't do that right. So positively reinforcing the good behaviors.
KEILAR: Yeah, so good. Dr. Alexander, thank you so much.
And THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now
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JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone, and welcome to THE ARENA. Kasie is off today. I'm Jim Sciutto, thanks so much for joining us on this Friday.
As we come on the air, there is a growing MAGA backlash to President Donald Trump's latest threat to Iran.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE BANNON, HOST, BANNON'S WARROOM: Are people teasing right now that Samantha Powers and Hillary Clinton must somehow have gotten invited to the Mar-a-Lago New Year's Eve celebration because the president coming out today saying, hey, were locked and loaded. Isn't that straight from the Samantha Powers and Hillary Clinton playbook?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Steve Bannon used to be Trump's chief of -- chief strategist. Of course, he knows exactly how his old boss would feel about being compared to Hillary Clinton and Samantha Power.
Those comments coming after Trump posted this just before 3:00 a.m. this morning, mind you, saying, quote, if Iran shots, sic, I think he meant shoots, and kills peaceful protesters, which is their custom, the United States of America will come to their rescue. We are locked and loaded and ready to go, end quote.
Protests, we should note, are growing across Iran as inflation rises and the nations currency plummets. So far, though, the president's words are just that, words. A White House official tells CNN that there are not -- they are not aware of any actions taken or increases in troop levels in the region.
But it's not just Bannon breaking with Trump when it comes to Iran. Soon to be former Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene tweeted, quote, "President Trump threatening war and sending in troops to Iran is everything we voted against in '24, Trump voters spent the week threatening a tax revolt because they are so furious about the never ending waste, fraud and abuse of their hard earned money going to foreigners and to foreign wars," end quote.
So, let's get off the sidelines and head into THE ARENA.
My panel is here. First, I do want to go straight to senior White House correspondent Kevin Liptak with his new reporting.
Kevin, is there any military muscle behind the president's words?
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: At this point, what we've heard from officials is that no troops have been added to the region. Their preparation levels have not been changed. And what one White House official told us is that the president hasn't taken any action and that his words here were really meant as a strong warning.
So, it's not exactly clear what precisely has been locked and loaded, as the president puts it there. He's being kind of characteristically vague about what his intentions are.
I do think when you talk to officials, they do sort of describe a hypothetical list of actions that the president could take that would stop short of firing missiles into Iran. For example, he could take a step akin to what President Biden took back in 2022, the last time protests flared up in Iran, which is to use American technology to bolster Internet connectivity to essentially allow some of these protestors to get around the regimes attempts to crack down on information.
You hear potential talk about sanctions you know, on regime figures or on sectors like the banking or oil sectors. Of course, Iran already has loads of American sanctions on it, so it's unclear what effect those could have. The other hypothetical that you hear discussion of is potential cyber action, you know, taking steps that would potentially target the regime on the cyber front. And, of course, that's something that the U.S. has done before when it comes to Iran.
You know, I think at the end of the day, President Trump has demonstrated that he has a greater appetite for risk in Iran than some of his predecessors. You know, even acknowledging these protests and throwing his support behind the protesters is more than, for example, what President Obama did back in 2009, when protesters were flaring up in Iran, Obama not really saying anything, fearing that that could potentially lead the regime to claim that the protesters were backed by the West.
Obama later said that he regretted not doing and saying more there, but President Trump clearly showing quite a provocative streak. Remember, it was just earlier this week when he said, standing alongside the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, that he would be willing to carry out further airstrikes in Iran if its demonstrated that Tehran is rebuilding its nuclear program or its ballistic missile program.
But there is a dilemma here. Of course, if he doesn't follow through on this threat, it could just embolden the regime and cause them to crack down on these protestors further.
And you have seen regime figures are really going harshly after President Trump, the head of Iran's parliament, said that American bases and forces across the entire region will be legitimate targets if the U.S. interferes in the country. And of course, we've seen them target American forces previously. You know, just back in June, they fired at the Al Udeid Air Base in Qatar.
And so, the president quite provocative language. And I think its something that the U.S. will be watching very carefully to see how all of this proceeds going forward.
SCIUTTO: No question. The risks are real.
Kevin Liptak, thanks so much.
My panel here with me. Terry Moran. He is journalist, host of "The Real Patriotism" podcast; Sophia Cai, White House reporter for "Politico"; plus, Democratic strategist and CNN political correspondent Maria Cardona. Bryan Lanza, former senior advisor to Donald Trump's 2024 campaign. And we're joined by David Sanger, CNN political and national security analyst, also with that newspaper called "The New York Times".
David, let me begin with you. Because what Kevin mentioned there, given you and I have covered Iran for a long time of the risk for the protesters of being tied to the U.S. government. That's a real risk, right? They don't want the impression that they are operating under the direction of Washington.
DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, you know, there's a lot of -- a lot of history here, Jim. And, you know, no Iranian student gets through school without learning about the U.S. role in engineering. A major coup in Iran in the 1950s by -- run by, among others, Kermit Roosevelt of the Teddy Roosevelt -- the descendant.
So, the message that the president was sending, while I'm sure at 3:00 a.m., he probably wasn't really thinking about the 1950s history, here is one that plays right into the regimes hands because they want to say this isn't an organic protest. This isn't about our mismanagement of the economy and the entire country. It's all engineered by the United States again.
And of course, when the president says he's locked and loaded, I mean, this is not like taking out nuclear sites. What exactly do you aim at? If there are protests underway, the troops that are surrounding the protestors? Probably not. The regime itself. The president had that chance in his first term, and he decided not to go do it, although he did kill a major military leader.
But it's not clear what it is that the military could actually do here. Kevin mentioned that the Trump -- that the Biden administration sent in basically internet in a box that would help connect the protesters. That's the kind of thing that would do the most good at this point.
SCIUTTO: Yeah. And by the way, they did that with consciousness that they did not want a U.S. stamp on that material because they didn't want that connection.
Sophia, you cover the White House closely here. And to Kevin Liptak's point, this is not the first time that President Trump, in the last 48 hours, has mentioned military action against Iran. I want to play that. These are his comments. Part of his comments next to the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, earlier. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I hear that Iran is trying to build up again. And if they are, we're going to have to knock them down. We'll knock them down. We'll knock the hell out of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Is there serious consideration to your knowledge in this administration about further military action?
SOPHIA CAI, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, POLITICO: I mean, he's done it recently. He's done it with the strikes on those nuclear sites. So, you know, I mean, taking that into consideration, I think a lot of options are on the table.
And no one really knows what Trump means by locked and loaded. But I think that's a part of the point. That's a part of his strategy of sort of keeping these other governments on the back foot because he is unpredictable, he is brash. He is willing to go there at 3:00 a.m. while he's at Mar-a-Lago without a lot of aides besides him. SCIUTTO: Yeah. And listen, I mean, a little madman -- madman theory
in there.
I mean, the trouble, Bryan Lanza, I imagine, is the political risk within, within his own base. And you saw some of that, Marjorie Taylor Greene. Here's Representative Thomas Massie, he posted on X today a few issues with this. He says we have problems at home. Shouldn't be wasting military resources. Military strikes on Iran require congressional authorization. And the threat isn't about freedom of speech in Iran. It's about dollar -- the dollar, oil and Israel.
[16:10:02]
How severe is that split in the party regarding military action? Not just Iran, but I mean -- Venezuela, you name it.
BRYAN LANZA, SENIOR ADVISOR, TRUMP 2024 CAMPAIGN: I think it'll get larger by the day, right? I mean, it's -- as soon as that tweet went out at 3:00 in the morning, I started getting calls from European friends, Middle East friends. Five minutes later, as soon as 6:00 a.m. hit, I started getting calls from my -- calls, physical phone calls at 6:00 a.m. saying, hey, what's -- from people in D.C. saying, what's going on?
There is a concern, right? You know, President Trump has shown -- has shown to be in this second term, willing to engage in any issue that hits the headline or any issue that hits the news wire. Iran's one of them, Venezuela. And he's got -- he's got to try to circle that with the base.
The people I talked to certainly don't want any connective -- kinetic activity in Iran. They want to be supportive of the protesters. They want it to have this organic push because ultimately the regime change that matters in the long term is something that comes from within.
But I think, you know, part of the people I talked to, the base that I talked to, they're just confused this morning.
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
Maria, is there some value here though for the U.S. president who has a track record to run on? Right? I mean, he killed Qasem Soleimani. He dropped a lot of bombs on Iran's nuclear program to put the Iranian regime on notice, saying, you know, we're not going to let you get away with murder here, literally, when it comes to these protesters.
MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: There would be except for there is no real plan here, right? If this was controlled chaos to do it, you know, the way that we just mentioned in terms of keeping regimes on their back foot. And I think that that that is part of it and they are on their back foot.
But the problem is what is the plan? Right? What does he mean when he says, locked and loaded? You remember during the Democratic campaigns of years past, the question was who do you want answering the phone at 3:00 a.m.? I think today, Americans are scared about who is tweeting at 3:00 a.m. from the White House.
And so, I think that is the problem, not just with the MAGA base, but with Americans in general. When American voters are having trouble making ends meet and they see a president who promised in the 2024 election and was the reason that he won, non maga voters, that put him in the White House is because he would help them make ends meet, that he would bring down the cost of groceries, gas and rent.
They would bring down inflation. Everything that he has done has actually exploded those costs. And now, they see him sort of, you know, playing cowboy at the international level in places like the Middle East that are so chaotic, without a plan. I don't think that brings anyone any kind of calm.
SCIUTTO: And with real cost. I mean, it costs a lot of money to put the country's largest aircraft carrier and thousands of troops and all these airplanes, you know, off of Venezuela just there.
Terry, I wonder, though, is there evidence that there is something of a plan, whether you agree with the plan or not, right? That the Venezuelan military activity. Yes, it's about regime change, but they're also trying to squeeze Cuba, makes money from Venezuelan oil, and China and Russia, which also transship and benefit from that.
Is there -- do you see the makings at least of a plan strategy here to weaken those government, all of whom are working together to some degree?
TERRY MORAN, JOURNALIST: Well, I see Donald Trump, right, and Donald Trump is not a strategy guy. He -- it's his personality. It's his instincts. He trusts his fingertip sense of deal-making situation, of a conflict situation. And he has good instincts. He's had some success.
The problem is the president's words matter in a situation like this. If you're a protester, if you're -- if you think this is a moment that you can rise up against this corrupt and wretched regime, what is the president saying to you? If you're the regime, what is he saying to you?
It is a dangerous game to play at 3:00 in the morning. But that's the president we have.
SCIUTTO: And to that point, I mean, when you hear Iranian officials say, hey, we can hit you back, it's true, right? There are a lot of American forces deployed in the region, and they have exercised that before.
David, as you look at this, I mean, of course, the contradiction, right, is that America first was supposed to bring the U.S. back from all these foreign entanglements, but the president is proving himself quite willing to get deeply entangled, certainly in his own hemisphere, but not just in in the Western hemisphere, right? Given the strikes on Iran.
I mean, is it clear to you what America first foreign policy is in this second Trump term?
SANGER: And certainly, it's gotten a lot more confusing. You know, in the first term, the president turned down a national security strategy that said, let's focus on the big superpowers, right, on China and Russia. In the second term, they pretty well blew past China and Russia in the national security strategy that came out a month and a half ago, and instead focused, as you point out, Jim, on the western hemisphere, that was confusing enough given the degree of our economic interests, military, technological interests in China. But Iran barely got a mention other than to celebrate the strike in June.
[16:15:05]
So, to have the president sort of go back and focus on Iran again is a little head snapping, especially when you think about the question, where did the Gerald R. Ford come from when it showed up on the coast of Venezuela? It came from the Mideast, right? It was there to protect against Iran. So he's got a little bit of an issue here of limited resources.
SCIUTTO: Sure. And certainly, more attention to Venezuelan black fleet tankers, more so than, say, Russian tankers, which are kind of flying all over northern Europe.
David Sanger, thanks so much.
Panel, please stick with me.
Coming up on THE ARENA, affordability -- get ready to hear that word a lot, as the 2020 election heats up. So is President Trump focused on high prices or is he too focused on, say, picking out marble for his big new ballroom? We got a story connected to that.
Plus, it's been two weeks since the Justice Department was supposed to, by law, release all of the Epstein files. But they are, in fact, still reviewing millions of documents related to the case. Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi is here to discuss.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? This guys been talked about for years. Are people still talking about this guy, this creep? That is unbelievable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:20:51]
SCIUTTO: It's now been exactly two weeks since the Department of Justice failed to meet the deadline to release its files, all of them on Jeffrey Epstein. And while hundreds of thousands of documents pertaining to Epstein are now accessible here on the Department of Justices so-called Epstein library web page, there are still a lot more to come. "The New York Times" is reporting that the department is reviewing
some 5.2 million pages of files and enlisting the help of 400 lawyers to do so. Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche posted that the effort is, quote, "all hands on deck." And that, quote, "Redactions to protect victims take time, but they will not stop these materials from being released." But when?
Joining me now, Democratic congressman of Illinois, Raja Krishnamoorthi. He sits on the House Oversight Committee, which of course has been conducting its own investigation into the Epstein case.
Congressman, thanks so much for taking the time.
REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL): Thank you so much, Jim.
SCIUTTO: So, I mean, by law and I -- and I've read the legislation, all of this should have been out two weeks ago. It's not. They're still reviewing kind of coming out in dribs and drabs. Are they not following the law here?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: They're not in compliance. That's exactly right. I think that not only are they not in compliance, but its just been kind of a chaotic rollout. It's been a rollout where they've taken extreme care to redact any reference to Donald Trump. But they've been careless with regard to redacting names of survivors, which is in direct contravention of the law.
I -- I also feel that they're feeling the heat from people across the political spectrum, not just Democrats, but also their MAGA base. And so, I think that they are -- they kind of understand the political imperative and the public kind of sentiment that these documents need to get out and be disclosed.
SCIUTTO: Do you suspect or are you alleging that the delay, the slow rolling is a deliberate effort to hide the most politically damaging documents as it relates to the president?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Possibly, yes. I do believe that we should absolutely consider that there's a cover up here with regard to the most damaging documents, and the reason is they're whole categories of documents that have not been released that are perhaps the most revelatory about what happened in this child sex trafficking ring. We're talking about witness memoranda that would actually name coconspirators. We're talking about financial records.
Remember, this was a $1 billion child sex trafficking ring. So, you have numerous transactions, and we need to be able to see those documents to be able to follow the money, who paid whom for what and when. At the end of the day, I think that there's just, you know, were hearing from our constituents, that, you know, basically we have to get to the bottom of this, the survivors, the 1,000-plus victims and survivors who were girls at the time of the abuses, who are now middle aged men -- women came forward at great courage to themselves, to expose what happened.
And it's kind of stiffen the resolve of people to make sure that we get to the bottom of this and give them the justice they deserve.
SCIUTTO: I certainly don't want to diminish the importance to the victims of transparency. They've quite publicly called for this. They want everyone to be held accountable.
But as it relates specifically to the president, have you seen any indication of criminal wrongdoing here? Because it's been quite clear to this point, right, that there is no evidence of criminal wrongdoing by the president? Have you seen evidence that changes that in any way, or -- because, of course, the allegation from Republicans is that you're simply trying to embarrass the president by association.
KRISHNAMOORTHI: No, I haven't seen that evidence. But I want to see all the documents.
[16:25:00]
We've seen emails from Jeffrey Epstein saying that Donald Trump, quote, unquote, "knew about the girls".
We now have this "Wall Street Journal" article that talks about how basically women were sent from Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago spa to Jeffrey Epstein's home. And Ghislaine Maxwell helped to scout them out and send them. And at least one of them complained of you know, basically inappropriate sexual advances by Jeffrey Epstein.
And this has been going on. Apparently, this practice of sending girls to Jeffrey Epstein's home from the spa had been going on for years. So, these are the types of things that we need to get to the bottom of.
SCIUTTO: I wonder if I can turn to a different topic that is Iran. You heard us talking about it earlier in this broadcast. The president, as you know, overnight at 3:00 a.m., tweeted or shared on social media that the U.S. is, quote, locked and loaded. If Iran were to threaten or harm protesters in the country.
Do you take the president at his word there? Is that a serious threat of U.S. military action against Iran?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: I don't know I see a lot of different sentiments conveyed on truth social, and I can't really tell what's, what's what, sometimes.
However, I will say this. We should speak with one voice with regard to the Iranian government that we take extremely seriously any threats of violence toward protesters in the country and also, quite frankly, their, you know, transnational efforts to go after dissidents, even in other countries, you know, Iranian nationals.
And so, we should absolutely condemn any attempt to suppress them. And in that regard, I stand with the administration.
SCIUTTO: Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi, we do appreciate you joining us. Happy New Year.
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Thank you, Jim. You, too.
SCIUTTO: Coming up next in THE ARENA, investigators in Switzerland narrow in on a cause for just a devastating inferno that killed dozens, many of them young people, as family members search hospitals for loved ones still missing. Some of them unidentifiable after the blaze.
Plus, the midterm elections are almost upon us, and high prices look to be issue number one. The president, though, said affordability is just a hoax. And today, he's out shopping for marble to decorate his $400 million ballroom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: So, you'll have drinks, cocktails, everything on this floor. And then they'll say, welcome to dinner. You walk into the ballroom, Mr. Senators, and you're going to see a ballroom, the likes of which I don't think will -- I don't think it will be topped.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:32:11]
SCIUTTO: Right now, in Europe, an entire continent is in mourning for the dozens of lives lost in a tragic, just devastating fire at a New Year's Eve party in Switzerland.
Some 119 people from nine European countries were also injured, many of them severely. Investigators say the fire developed rapidly into what's called a flashover, meaning that the room where those young people were partying became so hot that everything inside ignited almost instantaneously, all of it believed to have been caused by sparklers attached to champagne bottles.
This image shows the moment that happened. You can see the sparklers pointed upward, igniting what appears to be a foam insulation attached to the ceiling. Noise proofing.
We're going to show you footage of what happened next as people attempted to escape the inferno. I must warn you, the footage is disturbing.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
SCIUTTO: Good Lord.
Nic Robertson is live in Switzerland at the scene.
Nic. I mean, beyond the tragedy, that moment, just a heartbreaking situation now for families still who still just don't know the condition of -- of their children or whether their children survived
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It's terrible and it's been harrowing to watch. There have been people coming to lay flowers. You'll see around me here. Lots of floral tributes. You see young people coming because there were so many young people in that bar. You see tears in people's eyes.
But I think for me, standing here and the team in general, I think one of the hardest things we watched today was a father literally collapsed to his knees on the ground in tears, looking for his son. His son had gone to Le Constellation bar. He'd been there for the New Year's Eve celebrations, and he's lost contact completely with his son, and he has no idea where he is.
We've also heard from a woman looking for her son as well, and you can tell in her words just how desperate she is. This is what she said
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This was taken that night, two hours before -- two hours before he went to Le Constellation. So, if you have seen him in hospitals, if you have seen him in the morgue, whether he's alive or deceased, please contact me. I don't know how severe his burns are. I don't know if he's recognizable. I don't know. All I want is to find my child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: And it's not just the families, Jim. I was speaking to a 17- year-old girl just earlier on.
[16:35:02]
She had been planning to go to the bar with friends. She had dropped out at the last minute. She now has five friends that she's trying to track. Two of them she's discovered her in hospital, but three of them are still missing and even those in hospital. She can't really get much information about their condition. Are they getting better? Are they getting worse?
She said this is just for her and her cohort of teenage friends. This is just life changing, she said. They've just gone out to have fun and now this, a 17-year-old. Three of her good friends are missing no information -- Jim.
SCIUTTO: Good Lord, your heart breaks. Nic Robertson in Switzerland. Thanks so much were going to turn now to Venezuela, where the search for survivors continues after the U.S. military struck what it has described as a convoy of three alleged drug boats, this time in the pacific. Earlier this week. Those strikes are the latest salvo in the U.S.'s escalating and ongoing anti-drug operations.
And while it is unclear where these boats were coming from, U.S. strikes on alleged drug trafficking vessels have been part of the administration's broader pressure campaign against the Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro. A source tells CNN that Venezuela has now detained at least five Americans in the country in recent months, a move that administration officials believe is intended to create leverage against the U.S.
Maduro now says in an interview that he is open to talks with the U.S.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICOLAS MADURO, VENEZUELAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We must start to speak seriously with the facts in hand. The U.S. government knows that because we have said it a lot to their interlocutors that if they want to speak seriously about an agreement to battle drug trafficking, we are ready to do that. If they want Venezuela's oil, Venezuela is ready to accept U.S. investments like those of Chevron. When, where and how they want to make them
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Sounds like a negotiation offer.
My panel is back with me.
I mean, Maria, he's feeling the pressure, but he certainly hasn't buckled under the pressure yet, Maduro. Do you see the president as being willing to make a deal? I mean, for instance, Maduro, perhaps quite wisely says, I know you're interested in the oil. Here's my offer.
CARDONA: Well, we'll see. The president prides himself on being sort of the dealmaker in chief, right? But what would that deal look like? And I think part of the problem is we don't really know what the end game of this president is of this administration.
He starts by saying, this is all about narco trafficking. We know that's really B.S. if he was really concerned about narco trafficking and the networking, he wouldn't be blowing up these boats. We don't know who's on these boats. They've never offered any evidence that it is drug traffickers.
If they really knew that they were drug traffickers, they would board the boats, detain them, figure out who they were working for, go --
SCIUTTO: Prosecute them. Prosecute them.
CARDONA: Prosecute them. Exactly.
And he wouldn't have pardoned one of the biggest narco traffickers that we have seen in, in recent history. Right? And so, so then what is it?
Is it oil? The -- apparently, the oil companies have said, we're not interested in going after Venezuela oil. That is way too complicated.
So, is it regime change? Maybe. Maybe not. But I think again that is the problem with this because it is all chaotic. It is all shooting from the hip. They're making it up as they go along. We have no idea what to expect from this.
SCIUTTO: Bryan, do you think the U.S., the president would settle for less than Maduro flying out of the country? LANZA: No, I mean, listen, I think you find -- I find it interesting
that you see Maduro conducting his diplomacy through a car, literally --
SCIUTTO: Was he driving that car?
LANZA: It looked like he was driving or he was driving -- karaoke, you know, car karaoke. But he's clearly on the run.
I think the president, you know, from the things he's doing, he's doing, his administration is doing, is to put more pressure. And they want regime change. I think it's pretty clear they can say it's drugs. I don't necessarily think it's oil, but they very much see Venezuela, Maduro, as a destabilizing force in the region.
And this is our hemisphere. And he's -- he's -- he is copying the Kennedy doctrine, where you don't get to do this in our hemisphere. And that's, you know, it's 50 years, 60 years.
SCIUTTO: Kennedy had some missteps in the region, right?
LANZA: But he did, but how critical is it to make sure that we didn't have nuclear weapons in Cuba, whether it was missteps or not? And what we know now, and we've seen the reporting, is that Hezbollah is now in Venezuela. And that's a problem. That's our hemisphere.
And it's very destabilizing. He can make a strong case, I suspect, at the right time they will make a strong case. But I think it's pretty clear at this point it's all about regime change.
SCIUTTO: So, Sophia, I mean, arguably regime change beyond the shores of Venezuela, right? Because you have this odd coalition, don't you, with the president's interests, Stephen Miller's connection to immigration policy here. But Marco Rubio's interest in pressuring the Cuban regime as well.
CAI: Yeah. I mean, I asked the president recently, right after Christmas. I asked him, how long do you think Maduro will last?
SCIUTTO: What did he say?
CAI: He said, oh, I don't want to talk about that. But there are clear signs that this administration is thinking about what a post Maduro regime would look like, because we have reporting that President Trump's admin, they've been talking to oil companies to try to get back into Venezuela. And, you know, the conversation has looked like -- well, now it's a huge risk of capital. We don't really know what your policy looks like, but if Maduro leaves, then that might be a better environment for companies like Chevron to come back in.
I think the oil companies, to be fair, they're very reluctant to do that. But that that conversation is even happening is a sign of where this administration potentially wants to be.
SCIUTTO: Terry, you know, administration officials and their supporters will make the argument say, I mean, don't you want Maduro to leave? He's a bad guy. Sure. You make that case. Wouldn't it be nice to have, you know, more oil in the market price, et cetera.?
The thing is, there are so many pieces here. It sounds a little bit more like hope than a strategy.
MORAN: Yeah, once again, it's more instinct. And the problem that he has is, as a general rule, regimes do not change without a fight. Okay? There are some exceptions, but the enemy gets a say.
All right. Right now, Maduro wants none of this. He thinks there's a way out. I'll give him the drug stuff. Some of it. Look, he pardoned the guy from Honduras. The biggest drug runner around. You know, as long as we turn down the temperature on the drugs, what? We can do that.
And, you know, Chevron invests in, in Venezuelan oil, we can have some more. Maybe there's a deal here. If he finds out there's not, he gets to shoot back.
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
MORAN: What that looks like, if the Americans died, you can imagine Trump will then, because he's got this giant armada, he's pushed all of his chips into the middle of the table for Venezuela.
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
MORAN: Who saw that coming? What American voted for that?
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
CARDONA: The other complications are Russia is an ally of Venezuela. China is an ally of Venezuela. You know --
SCIUTTO: Iran.
CARDONA: Iran is an ally of Venezuela. So, it all becomes this cauldron and Trump's relationship with Putin right now, he's acting like his BFF. I mean, that doesn't help, right? All of this is just boiling to whoever what it's going to be.
LANZA: Listen, I would we all like to talk about Russia and Trump and Putin. Let's -- Putin just called -- at least the Russian government just called President Trump's action in Venezuela pirates and piracy. So that kind of sort of blows up the theory that Trump's some type of asset of Russia, if he's doing something exactly that he's trying to do.
CARDONA: Maybe not necessarily.
LANZA: It's pretty clear. I mean, we're talking billions of dollars are at stake. And Trump's doing exactly what the Russians don't.
SCIUTTO: Bryan, what about the risk to Trump here? Because this is an enormous investment in -- set aside the money, but in U.S. force deployments here, the costs he has I mean, his base clearly doesn't like the idea of even threatening military action against Iran. Here you have the military action piled around, and it might not work, right? It's a --
LANZA: Very well. I mean, listen, we -- the U.S. has a history in Latin America of regime change with not a lot of deaths. You've got Panama, you've got other countries.
SCIUTTO: Panama is a good one. But Bay of Pigs didn't work out.
CARDONA: Not all of it is good, right?
LANZA: Yeah. Under -- under different terms, sure. But, you know, there is a recent history of regime change working in Latin America that didn't work in the Middle East, primarily because of culture. There's a huge -- there's shared values. You know, Latinos have a lot of shared values with Americans. It's not like it's a religious war which the Middle East is able to turn every American activity into a religious war.
But listen, I think at the end of the day, you know, if he makes the argument that, you know, in our hemisphere, we cannot allow Hezbollah to take a foothold, we cannot allow Iran, Venezuela, Russia and China to be this -- I think it's an easy case to make to the American people when we sort of realize what the real risks are.
SCIUTTO: It sounds like -- sounds like you just confirmed this is about regime change. I'm going to write that down.
LANZA: I've always believed that about regime change.
CAI: You got to get Steve Bannon on board.
CARDONA: You've got to be easy, unless the economy gets better.
SCIUTTO: All right. Stick around. We've got more to discuss ahead in THE ARENA.
2026 is set to be a year of affordability when it comes to politics. So, the president is spending its shopping for marble and onyx for the new White House ballroom. How is that going to play with voters?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm doing a magnificent, big, beautiful ballroom that the country has wanted -- the White House has wanted for 150 years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:48:39]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We're donating a building that's approximately $400 million. I think I'll do it for less, but its 400. I should do it for less. I will do it for less. But just in case I say 400.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: The White House ballroom has consumed certainly a lot of the president's time and attention. Now, the day after millions of Americans lost their health care, enhanced premium subsidies, Trump went shopping for marble and onyx for that ballroom.
My panel is back.
Bryan, I hate to hit you up twice in a row here, but not a good look for the president.
LANZA: I prefer he wouldn't have done that. I think we know what the signature issue of 2026 is. It's going to be pricing, affordability. Anything that allows -- you know, that allows the media to have a conversation beyond that with the president is a problem. You need to maximize every second, every minute of the day showing what you're doing for the American people.
He has a story to tell. It could be better. He has six months to change it. But I think that image was not something I would have preferred.
SCIUTTO: The thing is, he goes even further, right? As you know, going so far as to say that affordability is fake. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The word affordability is a con job by the Democrats. Affordability is a hoax that was started by Democrats. The word affordability is a Democrat scam.
[16:50:00]
They use the word affordability. It's a Democrat hoax. You can call it affordability or anything you want. The Democrats love to say affordability.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: I have to imagine that's going to be in a lot of campaign ads.
CARDONA: I was just going to say you just saw campaign ads. They write themselves.
And the problem is that it's not just the media making this a conversation. American -- the American people are talking about this when they see the president that is out shopping and bragging about ostentatious gold and onyx and marble tables. He's giving the finger to Americas kitchen tables.
And so that is what Americans talk about, because they say, again, I go back to what I talked about at the very beginning. This is the one issue, Bryan, that Americans voted for him on. Non-MAGA voters trusted him. He has betrayed the American people, especially those who trusted him
to bring down the cost of groceries, gas and rent. A lot of Latinos, a lot of young people, a lot of independents, all of whom are now against him because he sees this kind of behavior. They see this kind of behavior, and he's done nothing except explode those costs.
LANZA: I would add -- I would add that gas is the cheapest it's been in five years. So, clearly, he has done something, right? You can't say he's done nothing. It's hard to get gas prices down.
The economist at the beginning of administration said Trump would have a tough task lowering gas prices, lowering energy costs. He's done exactly that. Well, you can't say he's done nothing. He's actually -- he's actually --
CARDONA: Medical costs are exploding.
(CROSSTALK)
SCIUTTO: Well, let's look at the numbers. Personal economic impact. When Americans were asked, does the economy work for them? Sixty-one percent say no, 39 percent say yes. And this was, of course, one of the issues on the economy that Trump had the strongest numbers prior.
Sophia, you speak to the president on this topic. When you asked him about affordability, how does he answer?
CAI: He's got a new word for it. He said it's pricing. Pricing will be the most important issue in the midterms, and I think it's because Susie Wiles has been in his year about this issue. She made him give this speech about affordability.
And, you know, he has shifted his tone on this issue a little bit. A couple of weeks ago, it was it's a hoax. It's a hoax. Now he's -- he's a little bit more focused.
He's got a couple of good economic indicators to talk about. He's got GDP growing at faster than expected. He's got cooling inflation. So, he's taking this moment to sort of refocus. And I think that's what he has to do.
It's -- you know, one day, he'll tell me that pricing is important. The next day, he'll go shopping. I think, look, the building stuff, that's a hobby for him. It's, you know, he's got this stuff on his desk in the Oval Office. It's the thing that he likes to do if he's letting loose and he's not on the golf course. I mean, okay.
SCIUTTO: It's a big, expensive hobby.
CAI: It is a very -- and of course, I should mention the White House has refused to tell us how much money he has spent today and what he's bought.
SCIUTTO : Terry, I mean, the question on money, he could change his tune and begin talking about it more. Give a speech here or there. What are the policy moves to address pricing, right? Because, I mean, you cut interest rates. Arguably that's going to -- that's going to boost inflation, right? And on health care, the prices are going up again because of a policy decision.
MORAN: You know, he seems unusually flummoxed. He seems confused at this moment about what to do. Two weeks ago. It's a great big hoax. It's really tough to tell people that the facts of their lives are not the facts of their lives. Bad move for politicians.
SCIUTTO: Which was exactly what Biden paid for it, politically.
MORAN: Everything is great. Just believe me. And trust me.
People aren't going to do that.
The other problem is that when people say affordability, I think the notion that this price will come down or that price will come down is not what they're talking about. They're talking about a generational problem that they're living worse than their parents.
And that takes, big picture not -- okay, I'm going to have some price controls. I think he's saying price pricing because presidents have occasionally imposed price controls. Maybe he'll do that.
I think, in general, people are looking -- make practical, pragmatic structural changes so that we can afford housing, health care and a better life.
SCIUTTO: And that is a phenomenon not confined to this country, because you see it reflected in European politics as well. And you see equal anger and frustration at parties of the left and the right. You have this kind of pendulum swing, right? Because they're like, it hasn't been working for me, whether that's E.U. policies or American policies, generationally.
CARDONA: And in terms of policies, you had the ACA subsidies just expired. That was an easy thing for Trump and the Republicans to fix. And they slapped Americans in the face.
LANZA: Let me tell the truth to the American people. The only reason health care costs are going up is because of Obamacare.
CARDONA: Oh, that's not true, Bryan.
(CROSSTALK)
LANZA: Obamacare did not actually solve the -- it was on purpose, 100 percent on purpose. It's structured to drive up the personal cost. Obama could force people into the government health care. That's why it took place.
SCIUTTO: No way.
CARDONA: The rate of the cost --
LANZA: Obamacare was supposed to fix it. Obamacare was supposed to fix it. We're eight years later and it's a bust. We have to bail it out a third time now.
CARDONA: If not for Obamacare, health would incredibly --
LANZA: American people, your costs are going up as a direct result of Obamacare. There's no way --
CARDONA: The American people understand that because of the ACA, millions more have --
LANZA: They need another bailout.
CARDONA: -- thought there was a replacement. That's why they're mad. Right? And the replacement --
MORAN: In two weeks --
SCIUTTO: In two weeks time.
CARDONA: Right.
SCIUTTO: Please, just stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Thanks so much to my panel. We had some, you know, honest discourse here. You know, a little bit of some smiles, some disagreements.
Happy New Year to all of you. All of you watching.
Phil Mattingly, of course, standing by for "THE LEAD".
Phil, I leave everything in your hands.
