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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt

ICE Agent Shoots & Kills Woman During Minneapolis Crackdown; Hegseth & Rubio Brief All Lawmakers On Venezuela Strike. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired January 07, 2026 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: -- videos of the scene as we continue our coverage next on THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT, which starts right now.

[16:00:17]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Breaking news in Minneapolis, an immigration enforcement agent has shot and killed a woman they accuse of attempting to run them over.

Good day, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA.

A 37-year-old woman is dead after being shot by an ICE agent following a confrontation in the streets of Minneapolis. We're going to show you the video of this fatal incident. A warning: the footage is disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No! No! Shame!

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shame! Oh my god! What the (EXPLETIVE DELETED)? What the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you just -- what the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) did you do?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: The footage of the incident you just saw now at the heart of a dispute between federal and local officials over what happened and who's responsible for the woman's death.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTI NOEM, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: It was an act of domestic terrorism. What happened, it was our -- ICE officers were out in an enforcement action. They got stuck in the snow because of the adverse weather that is in Minneapolis. They were attempting to push out their vehicle, and a woman attacked them and those surrounding them and attempted to run them over and ram them with her vehicle.

An officer of ours acted quickly and defensively, shot to protect himself and the people around him. And my understanding is, is that she was hit and is deceased.

MAYOR JACOB FREY (D), MINNESOTA: They are already trying to spin this as an action of self-defense. Having seen the video of myself, I want to tell everybody directly that is bullshit. This was an agent recklessly using power that resulted in somebody dying, getting killed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Right now, on the ground, the anger, the protests are growing. Minnesota Governor Tim Walz has ordered the state's National Guard to prepare for possible deployment, as he and Minneapolis mayor urged the federal government to leave.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. TIM WALZ (D), MINNESOTA: We do not need any further help from the federal government. To Donald Trump and Kristi Noem, you've done enough.

FREY: I have a message for ICE. To ICE, get the fuck out of Minneapolis. We do not want you here. Your stated reason for being in this city is to create some kind of safety, and you are doing exactly the opposite.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right. Let's get started with CNN law enforcement correspondent Whitney Wild. She is live on the scene in Minneapolis. We're also joined by CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller.

But, Whitney, first to you, we just heard the governor of Minnesota, Tim Walz, saying that he's angry, urging people to protest. What are you seeing right now there on the ground?

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: We are steps away from where this woman, whose name we still do not know, lost her life. What you can see behind me, over my shoulder, is a small vigil. There is still blood in the snow, Kasie. That is how fresh this scene is. There are still pieces of what appeared to be a brake light broken among the flowers here.

This is an extraordinary moment. It is an extraordinary scene. What you're seeing now is people continuing to lay flowers at the very spot where this woman spent her last moments on earth.

We spoke with a man who saw all of this happen, Trevor Heitkamp. Here's what he said. He saw.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TREVOR HEITKEMP, WITNESS: I saw the passenger like exit the vehicle. They were crying and their face was covered in blood. The agents on the scene were shouting, no pulse, no pulse. Another man on the scene said, I'm a doctor. I'm a physician. Let me in to administer emergency medical care. They said, no, back up.

It does not appear aggressive to me. I think that if they felt like they were in any danger, they could have stepped two feet backwards. I think, in my opinion, that this was an unnecessary use of force in a reaction to imagined danger.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILD: Again, I want to take a moment to direct your attention back to the video, because DHS put out a narrative. Again, they say that this happened because an ICE agent was in fear for his life and fear for the life of the law enforcement officers around him, and fear for the life of the public. Again, you're hearing officials here in Minnesota say that is patently not true. Here again, to get our viewers up to speed, here is more from that video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shame! Shame! Shame! Shame! Shame! What's happening to her? What happened?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Step back!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILD: Kasie, earlier today, we saw quite a bit of anger, and I think we've said that word so many times that, you know, there's a risk of it starting to lose its value. And actually, when I said it earlier, someone stopped me and said, it is not anger. We are enraged.

There was a lot of -- a lot of energy, a lot of frustration directed toward the Minneapolis police department, who was here earlier trying to control this crowd. We saw multiple federal law enforcement officers, and as they were leaving, you saw the crowd throwing snowballs and chunks of ice at their vehicles. When Minneapolis police cleared the scene here and allowed people to move in to where this actually happened, as they were pulling out, people were throwing chunks of ice and snowballs at the Minneapolis police department.

And I think that highlights the tight line that the Minneapolis police department is walking right now. That is what these on the ground is. That is the local challenge here is how to keep this under control without inflaming tensions.

And I'll leave you with this, some context here that is unique to Minneapolis. We are four blocks from where George Floyd was killed. That is not at all far from the minds of the people here. Everyone I've spoken with has brought it up to me.

This is where -- this is a city that has worked really hard to heal. This is a police department that's worked really hard to come back from that, to change how it operates, so that something like that never happens again. And now they are dealing with this crush from federal law enforcement, really thrust upon them. And in this moment, that is the pressure that is the context on Minneapolis, Kasie.

HUNT: Whitney Wild, very important points there.

John Miller, I want to bring you into this conversation to talk a little bit about the video. I mean, there are multiple videos of this incident from different angles. And we already have officials out there talking about what happened, making statements about what they believe to have happened.

Can you walk us through what folks are going to be looking at and how this moves forward in a way that is or isn't going to be similar to what normally happens in a situation like this?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT & INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Sure thing. When you look at the video, you see the team of ICE cars, moving out and you see this maroon SUV blocking the street. One of the things you notice is that she's waving the ICE vehicles through, meaning just go around me and the first one does the second one. A pickup truck rolls up. And what you see on the video, there is one of the agents gets out and puts his hand on the door and is grabbing the door and says, you know, get out of the car.

It appears that he is trying to take her into custody at that moment. The other thing you see is another agent to his left, and then the car starts to move as if it's going to finish it's U-turn. The wheels are turned to the right, and then the officer who appears in front of the vehicle opens fire.

So, here's the video now. The first ICE agents get out. One moves slowly, the other moves more quickly to the door. He puts his hand on the door. The car starts to move forward and the agent in front then fires three shots.

We're going by the audio. You hear pop, pop, pop. One of those shots goes through the windshield. We don't know where the other two went, but it happens very quickly.

Now here's the standard, which is if they're trying to arrest her, she's fleeing that arrest. Is she posing a danger of imminent death or serious bodily harm to the agent in front? One suggestion is, well, she could hit him with the car. The other suggestion is he could get out of the way and the agent holding on could let go, and they could determine whether or not to pursue.

This is one of those decisions that was made in a split second to use deadly force. It depends, you know, on how the federal government decides, whether this was the way a reasonable agent with proper training would have acted in that circumstance.

HUNT: I'll ask you about something specific in that video. If we could bring it back up, which is the way that the wheels are turned in the -- in the car, and she does appear to cut kind of away from the agents, the way she turns the tires. [16:10:05]

What would you read into that and how it may play into what happens next?

MILLER: So, this is such a good question because clearly they're trying to arrest her and she's backing up and then trying to make that turn to go away. She does not want to be arrested. I mean, this is what the video suggests, which is all we have to go on right now. But the wheels are cut away.

If she was intending to run over the agent in front of her, the wheels would have stayed straight. She would have gunned the engine and done that. The reason it's such a challenging question is when you've been in these situations, there's something that they call tunnel vision, which is you're focused on the target and the threat, and you're not seeing the bigger picture around you. For instance, that the wheels are cut to the right. You're seeing the car moving forward. You see your partner there who may be dragged by the car. You're seeing that the car may hit you. And in that tunnel vision, sometimes you make decisions absent the big picture.

It still begs the tactical question. And this is not a new question, which is if you're facing a moving vehicle and it's a threat to you because you're in the way, get out of the way. Now, that's not a suggestion on my part. That has been the policy adopted by the New York City Police Department when I was there, by the Los Angeles Police Department, when I was there, by the FBI and federal agencies.

Now, the current policy for the Department of Homeland Security on what do you do about a moving vehicle? It says, DHS law enforcement officers are prohibited from shooting at the operator of a moving vehicle. Here's the but -- it says, unless the vehicle and the operator's actions comport with you are in danger of imminent death or serious bodily harm.

Which then begs the question, well, if you are, why not get out of the way of the moving vehicle? It further says in that policy, and this was updated in 2023, to go along with so much of the American law enforcement policy, which says it is inherently dangerous and almost always ineffective to shoot at moving vehicles.

The DHS policy concludes, consider the danger to innocent bystanders of an out-of-control vehicle with an operator wounded by or killed by a gunshot. So, what they say is it's a bad idea.

HUNT: John, I mean -- yeah, remarkable that you have all of that to hand. And quite telling. What does it say to you? One of the things we learned from the governor of Minnesota in that press conference is that they don't have an ID. They don't know who this woman is. Is that unusual after so many hours have gone by?

MILLER: So, it is pretty clear to me that they know who she is. But there's a lot that comes with that, which is the governor's representing the state with the head of the state investigations and the state authorities. These would be Minneapolis police officers on the ground who would get that ID from the federal authorities, from the family members.

And then they have to consider things like, has every family member been found and notified in terms of parents or other relatives, have they established that identity with the coroner or the medical examiner? I think that they know who she is. They just haven't released it to us or to the public while they cross those T's and dot those I's.

HUNT: All right. John Miller, thank you very much for that. Our thanks to Whitney Wild as well.

Our panel is here in THE ARENA. CNN political analyst, host and editorial director at "Vox", Astead Herndon; CNN special correspondent Jamie Gangel; CNN political commentator, former DOJ official Xochitl Hinojosa; CNN senior political commentator Scott Jennings.

Scott, I want to start with you, because the president has already weighed in here on his social platform. He says he just looked at it. It's a horrible thing to watch. He calls the woman screaming, a professional agitator. He calls the woman in the car very disorderly, obstructing and resisting violently, willfully, viciously run over the ICE officer who seems to have shot her in self-defense.

Then he says the situation is being studied in its entirety. But the reason these incidents are happening is because the radical left is threatening, assaulting and targeting our law enforcement officers and ICE agents on a daily basis. They're just trying to do the job of making America safe.

Do you think it's appropriate for the president to be weighing in in this way, while so many of the facts are still in dispute?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, all the political actors seem to be weighing in. The president is weighed in. The governor of Minnesota and the mayor of Minneapolis have weighed in and effectively called this guy a murderer. They don't know that.

I mean, there's obviously two points of view, and I assume there's going to be more facts that were all going to learn in the days and weeks ahead. But it's pretty apparent this guy was standing in front of a vehicle and somebody accelerated it at him. How this shakes out in the legal system, I don't know.

I do know this. The president has been a strong proponent of standing up for these ICE agents and other federal law enforcement who have been, in fact, under assault from protesters since he took office and instructed them to simply enforce federal immigration law.

[16:15:12]

And we have seen, in my opinion, a lot of irresponsible rhetoric over the years from Democratic officials like Tim Walz, who have called them gestapo and murderers and everything else. And so, there are consequences to that kind of language. And I think we're seeing that play out today. HUNT: Xochitl, you, of course, have a background at the Department of

Justice. Can you walk us through, I mean, one thing that some of our analysts have been saying is that it is unusual for officials like Kristi Noem, for example, in positions of power to make statements about the facts of something like this before an investigation is able to take place. Is that the case? How do you understand the difference between what we've seen from Trump administration officials and what we have typically seen in the past?

XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And you're right, you often do have mayors and governors come out and give statements and potentially give political statements. And the Justice Department, the federal government have a responsibility to make sure they get all the facts before coming out and making conclusions.

And what happened with Kristi Noem is -- what should have happened if she were a responsible DHS secretary, is she should have called for an investigation, an internal review of what happened before going out and blaming the victim, the person who was shot and killed. I think it was completely irresponsible.

The other thing that should happen immediately after is because this was a federal law enforcement shooting, the FBI and the DOJ, specifically the civil rights division and the U.S. attorney's office should be investigating this immediately. The problem is, is that you no longer have an independent Justice Department. You no longer have an independent U.S. attorney there anymore.

And so, who will take this case? Who will investigate it? You should also have the ICE inspector general investigate. That likely won't happen.

And that's why you heard the state say we will be looking at it. That will be interesting to see how that plays out, but I doubt that federal law enforcement will actually investigate this matter.

HUNT: Jamie, Astead, briefly, I mean, the reality of this is that it is -- it is an explosively difficult situation that is going to explode our politics most likely.

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. No question. And, and I spoke to some law enforcement officials who made this point. I'm just going to read what the person said. Have the rules of engagement and the ICE raid tactics led to more violence.

They look at this and they say, this is not the way these things were carried out before the Trump administration.

ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah, I think that context is important. Over the last couple of months, there's been an intentional effort to ramp up these deportations. We have seen Stephen Miller make a kind of projections about what he wants 1,000 a day in terms of apprehensions. I think that kind of chaos has created a tinderbox that has unfortunately led to some of the scenes that I think we see today. And I think that chaos is a logical result of that mass deployment of federal agents. HUNT: All right. And we are just learning that the Homeland Security

Secretary Kristi Noem, is expected to go to Minneapolis Wednesday. Today is Wednesday after this ICE-involved shooting.

All right. Our breaking news coverage is going to continue throughout the hour on this story.

We've got two senators with us today. Republican John Kennedy, Democrat Mark Kelly.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:22:52]

HUNT: All right. Welcome back.

We are continuing to follow the breaking news out of Minneapolis, where a woman was fatally shot by an ICE agent. That moment, captured in this video obtained by CNN. We do want to warn you, it's graphic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No! No! Shame!

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shame!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right. Joining us now is retired navy captain, the Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona.

Senator, thanks very much for being here.

That video is, of course, incredibly disturbing. The DHS secretary, Kristi Noem, has called what the woman in the car did domestic terrorism.

Do you think that's what we saw in that video?

SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): Well, it's one angle of the video. I don't agree with Kristi Noem on this situation, and I think it's important to recognize that sending a huge number of ICE agents into communities, rounding people up who are not criminals, who are not dangerous people, drug dealers, gang members, you create an environment where things like this can happen. It's a, you know, it's a -- it's a situation that's very unsettling for people.

I looked at the video. I think it's going to be very important to get other angles on the video and have a real investigation. And the use of deadly force by a police officer is a big decision, and there needs to be an investigation. And if it turns out that this officer used that in a circumstance that they should not have, there needs to be accountability.

The other thing I wonder is, you know, with all the number of people that ICE is currently hiring, what kind of training are these individuals get? Are they ready to do this?

Both my parents were police officers. You know, my father once had to fire his gun in the line of duty. My mom had been shot at. It's challenging for any cop, but cops that are not well-trained, you could wind up -- I'm not saying that's the situation here, but this is the kind of thing that can happen.

[16:25:06]

HUNT: When you talk about that training. We were just talking with John Miller, who, of course, worked with the NYPD. He worked with the LAPD, and he pointed out that the guidance for those law enforcement officers is, if is, if you're in a situation like that, back away from the car, right? And he was pointing to the video and saying, would it be possible for this person to back away?

Is that something that if you're extraordinarily well-trained as a police officer, would be an instinct that you might have to hand that wouldn't exist if you didn't have such training?

KELLY: Well, if you got a question about airplanes and flying in combat, I am your guy.

HUNT: Well, maybe your parents talked to you.

KELLY: My parents, you know, they might. They might be. Would have --

HUNT: But you've also been through a lot of training yourself. You know the difference between something you can do on instinct because you've been trained and something that you don't.

KELLY: But also, another thing I know is it's -- when things are happening very quickly, you got to make a quick decision. Sometimes things go wrong and I am really concerned about what Kristi Noem, DHS has done in these communities by sending, you know, dozens, hundreds of people in there going after people in their community who are no threat to society.

That's created the kind of environment where these mistakes -- maybe this was a mistake, maybe it wasn't. I think the investigation is going to have to, you know, determine was this officer at fault or maybe was this officer correct in, in doing what they did?

But I think DHS really needs to consider. And the president should. Is this the right approach?

This is not what he ran on. He said he was going to be removing, you know, gang members and criminals and felons from our communities. ICE is going after just like regular people, moms, you know, folks who are obviously -- they're undocumented, but they're no threat to society. HUNT: Your colleague in the Senate, Chris Murphy, posted on X today

that Democrats can't vote for DHS budget that doesn't restrain the growing lawlessness of this agency. And he, of course, was referring to ICE.

Do you think he's right about this?

KELLY: About us voting for DHS budget? So DHS budget is --

HUNT: Doesn't restrain ICE.

KELLY: That doesn't restrain. I would like to see, you know, ICE not repeat what is going on in Minneapolis and other cities. There is some indication right now the next city that they're going to. I think it's fair to say target is Phoenix, Arizona, where my constituents live.

I am seriously concerned about them going in there and terrorizing communities, and that don't benefit anybody, doesn't benefit our country.

To remove somebody like -- give you an example, Kelly Yu (ph), who is still sitting in an ICE detention center in Florence, Arizona, who I visited, who's a business owner who has 70 employees. She's got a deportation order, despite being here for 20 years. She's never committed any crime. Yes, she's undocumented, but she has a kid who's a U.S. citizen, a husband who's a U.S. citizen. Moms a U.S. citizen, sister is a U.S. citizen.

How does it benefit us by kicking out a woman who is created, you know, a beneficial thing for our economy. She has 70 employees. Doesn't make any sense.

HUNT: The mayor of Minneapolis and the press conference today said his message to ICE was to get the F out of Minneapolis.

KELLY: Yeah, I saw that.

HUNT: Do you think that's the right message? I mean, would you say that if they came to Phoenix?

KELLY: Hey, one of -- one of -- one of -- a member of his community is dead. We don't know much about that person, but we certainly will find out more. I understand his frustration.

HUNT: Let's talk a little bit about Venezuela, which I know is something that you, of course, have been involved and briefed on. And you heard from national security officials in the Trump administration on Capitol Hill today.

Are you convinced that what the Trump administration did to Nicolas Maduro was a legal operation?

KELLY: There was an indictment? And there was a bounty on him, and he's clearly a bad guy, murderous dictator, illegitimate, not the elected leader of Venezuela. And I think it's good that he's gone and hell face the U.S. justice system. I kind of wonder what's going to happen to him, by the way, longer

term, because Donald Trump pardoned Juan Hernandez, who's basically the same kind of guy. And what were those circumstances? I mean, did somebody like, why did Juan Hernandez get pardoned? So I'm concerned about that.

But is should it be the policy of the United States to go in and remove people, regime change? By the way, his number two person, this is like being in the navy squadron and the CEO leaves and the executive officer fleets up is what we call it. That's what happened.

So, we still have somebody can we -- can we do anything here? But what is their plan?

[16:30:01]

If you saw what happened in Iraq like initially this seemed like a good thing when Saddam Hussein was overthrown and then it resulted in chaos and we wound up being bogged down there for years, hundreds, thousands of Americans lost their lives over that conflict because there wasn't a good plan. I don't see a good plan here.

HUNT: The other, of course piece that has plagued you in the news is your participation in the video about illegal orders resulted in the Pentagon launching an investigation into you and ultimately deciding they're going to dock your pay and censure you because of your retirement pay, because of what you said.

But I wanted to sort of point out that what they said in the letter that censured you, this is what Hegseth wrote, that between June 2025 and December 2025 so this is a six-month-plus period, you engaged in a sustained pattern of public statements that characterized lawful military operations as illegal and counseled members of the armed forces to refuse orders related to those operations. So, this is about a lot more of what you're saying than just the video.

KELLY: Yeah, absolutely. When you look at the dates. But let me -- let me correct him for a second. We counseled members of the military to not follow illegal orders to follow the law.

And the Uniform Code of Military Justice is really clear. But they didn't like what I said then. And they also don't -- didn't like what I said between those dates, including where they, quote me, you know, in this letter, they quote me in here because I criticized them for firing admirals and generals. These are people I voted for that then Hegseth fired because of the color of their skin or because they were women.

And I criticized them for that. I'm on the Armed Services Committee. It is my job to do that. And they censured me and are now threatening to demote me from my military rank and dock some of my pension because I am critical of them. They're trying to silence me and other members of the military, other retired members, people who have served in my case for 25 years.

I think they're also trying to silence other members of Congress. If you disagree, if you say something that we do not like, we are coming after you. That's the message they're trying to send.

But here's the result -- I am not going to change the way I do my job. I was elected to this office. I have constituents that I represent and I am accountable to. So I'm going to continue to speak out and do my job.

And, you know, Pete Hegseth's options here are to -- I mean, he can continue to do what he's trying to do here, or he can go take a hike.

HUNT: Do you have any recourse here to fight back against them? I mean, are you going to sue?

KELLY: We have options. We're exploring those options.

HUNT: Exploring those options. You don't want to preview any of them here?

KELLY: No, no, no. We will -- we will take the appropriate action. And the reason is because this is -- has a chilling effect on so many other people, and it affects all of our first amendment rights.

We have a right when we don't like what the government is doing. And beyond it being a right for me, for me, it's an obligation. But we have -- everybody has a right to speak out against the government. They're trying to take that away from us. And that's not right.

HUNT: Well, when you decide, come back and make the news here, let us know.

Senator Mark Kelly, very grateful to have you today. Thank you.

KELLY: Thank you.

HUNT: All right. Coming up next in THE ARENA, we're going to talk to Republican Senator John Kennedy. He was also briefed on Venezuela today.

And we'll get back to that breaking news out of Minneapolis. Those new details on the fatal shooting of a 37-year-old woman by an ICE officer.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:37:55]

HUNT: All right. Minnesota Governor Tim Walz earlier this hour provided an update on that fatal shooting of a woman in Minneapolis by an ICE agent. The governor saying that state officials have yet to definitively identify the victim. They say she is a 37-year-old woman.

Walz also with this message.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. TIM WALZ (D), MINNESOTA: This was so. So preventable. So unnecessary. And I don't know, I hope maybe were at their McCarthy moment. Do you have no decency? Do you have no decency?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right. Joining us now, Republican senator from Louisiana, John Kennedy.

Senator, always grateful to have you in THE ARENA. Thank you so much for being here.

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): Thanks.

HUNT: I want to start with the same question I asked Senator Mark Kelly. We heard the DHS secretary, Kristi Noem, describing what the woman did. She's inside a car in this video of the incident. She called what her actions were, quote, "domestic terrorism," end quote.

Do you agree with the DHS secretary's assessment based on what you've seen in this video?

KENNEDY: Well, first, Kasie, I'm sorry it happened. I wish it hadn't. I don't know the facts, and I'm not going to pass judgment until I get them. The brief reporting I've seen, indicates that the decedent tried to hit a number of cops. ICE agents with her car, and one of the cops shot her, and she died as a result.

And that's all I know. I don't know who's at fault. And I'm not going to pass judgment until I do. The secretary is entitled to her opinion. But I'm going to wait to voice mine.

HUNT: Do you feel as though the Trump administration broadly is taking the right tone in terms of how they are talking about this incident? Are they talking about it in a way that is going to bring the temperature down or escalate tensions?

KENNEDY: Well, I -- look, I trust in the American people. Now they don't read Aristotle every day, but there are plenty smart. They'll read the stories and they'll look at the videos and they'll draw their own conclusions in terms of the tone being set by the Trump administration.

They are following the law. Legal immigration is legal. Illegal immigration is illegal. Duh. And in response to President Biden's decision to ignore federal law and immigration, the Trump administration is acting and sending a message that if you want to come to America, you have to follow the law.

Now, that obviously doesn't include killing people, but I can't say that the officer involved here was at fault. I can't say he was or wasn't. I just don't know. But the facts will come out and I'm just sorry the whole damn thing happened.

HUNT: Sir, this, of course, ICE's actions in Minneapolis, part of a broader effort across the country for -- from the Trump administration to remove undocumented people. Now, of course, the president campaigned on removing criminals, drug dealers, people from the country. He did not, during the campaign talk about removing, for example, people who may not have documented status, but who have been members of their communities for many, many years.

I think my question for you is, do you think there are any instances where ICE has gone farther than they should have in carrying out President Trump's policies?

KENNEDY: Well, I think the president's priority is to deport criminals. But as you well know, Kasie, if you're here in our country illegally and you're a criminal, they don't just come out on the corner and say, hey, I'm here illegally and I'm a criminal.

You have to seek them out. And in seeking them out, ICE is finding people who are not criminals in the sense that they committed a felony, but they are criminals in the sense that they're in our country illegally.

And the president is enforcing law. I'm well aware that many Americans think he's gone too far. But the president has decided to do this, and we will have judgment day in the next election.

HUNT: Judgment day in the next election. Speaking of the election and the president, of course, talked about the midterm elections when he spoke, to Republicans yesterday and he, of course, has also just gone into Venezuela and taken Nicolas Maduro. Of course, the military action there incredibly effective.

I'm interested to know what you think the next step is going to be in Venezuela. Are you convinced that the administration has a plan that will result in something other than a years-long potential quagmire?

HUNT: Well, we had a classified briefing today on both Greenland and Venezuela, and it was one of the best briefings I've attended, and I've attended a lot of them.

Usually, they come in and both Democrats and Republicans and speak to you in Sanskrit, Sanskrit. I apologize for my voice. And they don't tell you anything.

But Rubio today really shot us straight. He did talk about Greenland.

Let me give you my perspective. Even -- even a modestly intelligent ninth grader knows that to invade Greenland would be weapons grade stupid.

Now, President Trump is not weapons grade stupid, nor is Marco Rubio. They do not plan to invade Greenland. That doesn't mean they're not going to seek a legal formal partnership with Greenland as to their and ours national defense.

That doesn't mean -- I'm not saying they will or won't. They're not going to. The president is not going to try to buy Greenland.

There are 41,000 people, electors eligible to vote in Greenland. If everybody votes, 20,501 Greenlanders can vote to join America. I'm not saying that will or won't happen, but I think that's really what the president is up to. Now in terms of Venezuela, the administration does have a plan. And Marco -- Secretary Rubio explained it to us today in great detail. It's not my place to tell you what he said.

[16:45:03]

But I will point out this -- I hope that eventually the Venezuelans will embrace democracy, but the military is going to determine that. That's just the bottom line. Unless you were in the quad playing frisbee and history 101, you know that in all of Venezuela's history, whenever it has embraced democracy, it is because the military went along. When it has rejected democracy, it was because the military led the charge.

It is clear that the administration is going to try to influence Venezuela financially. They're quarantining all their oil, they're cutting off their cash flow.

Will that be enough to convince the military? I don't know. I just don't know. But they have thought this through very carefully.

HUNT: All right. Senator John Kennedy, thank you very much for being with us, sir. I hope to see you soon.

KENNEDY: Thanks, Kasie.

HUNT: All right. Ahead here in THE ARENA, more on the breaking news out of Minneapolis with Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem expected to be in the city shortly following the fatal shooting of a 37-year-old woman by an ICE agent.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:50:44]

HUNT: All right. Welcome back. We're continuing to follow breaking news out of Minneapolis.

A 37-year-old woman fatally shot by an ICE agent, the DHS Secretary Kristi Noem, quick to describe the woman's actions as a, quote, act of domestic terrorism.

Here's the moment she was shot. And again, a warning. The video is quite disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No! No! Shame!

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shame! (END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right. I want to bring in CNN security correspondent Josh Campbell. We're also joined by CNN senior law enforcement analyst, chief Charles Ramsey, who led both the D.C. and Philadelphia police departments.

Our political panel is also with us.

But Josh Campbell, I want to start with you.

We heard from the governor, Tim Walz, who said that he's activating or has warned the National Guard issued the warning order to begin the mobilization, potentially of the Minnesota national guard. He also clearly had a different narrative than the DHS Secretary Kristi Noem, about what we saw.

You obviously have been in difficult situations yourself over the course of your career. What do you see here?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, so first with the National Guard, I mean, it seems as though that's a prudent step based on what we've seen in the past, over the years in Minneapolis, the governor has issued what's called a WARNO in military, a warning order.

Basically, this is an order to the troops to just be ready just in case you are needed, and so they don't just out of the blue, get some kind of deployment order. That's pretty standard if time allows. And what it appears that the governor is saying is he made the point, saying these are our own citizens, our own residents with the national guard that will be deploying. These aren't people coming in from out of state. And so I think his goal is to try to keep the peace.

To your point about the narrative, I think that is so important here because oftentimes in these situations, you know, my goal here is to try to put an incident under the microscope, to try to determine was a use of force actually authorized or not. But so often, we see politics quickly injected into these situations.

I think in this situation by both sides, and I don't mean to just both sides, everything you know, unintentionally. But we have the president coming out saying that, you know, this person was trying to kill the agent. You have the DHS secretary saying that this was an act of domestic terrorism. One, we don't have facts.

We also heard a Democratic lawmaker a short time ago on our air say that the ICE agent wasn't in any danger, which is also untrue, because you actually see on the video, at least what we see that the agent appears to be struck by that vehicle.

The big question here, in my view, comes down to judgment. It appears based on policy. And, you know, as a former federal agent, if an agent believes that they are in danger of imminent death or serious injury, they can use deadly force. The question is also judgment. Just because you can, should you? Could that agent have moved out of the way? There's no duty to retreat. They don't have to. But that could have

possibly de-escalated the situation. But that's why this is so tough. This is such a close call based on that video, because you see where the agent is, it appears he's struck. He then decides to open fire, were there other options available to him.

That will be something we'll have to watch, but obviously, we're in a period of time where people jump to judgment before the investigation is even over.

HUNT: Well, and to that point, Chief Ramsey, you've led police departments. At what impact does a -- the sort of political rhetoric what does that what impact can that have on the streets?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: It just inflames things even more. I mean, it's already a tense situation, not just in Minneapolis but in cities, other cities in America right now. And so, the stronger the language that's used by our elected officials, the more it tends to rise -- to raise the temperature.

And so, everybody just needs to kind of deal with the facts. If you don't know exactly what took place. And it's often the case where you don't initially right after something like this occurs, listen to, Kristi Noem's first statement. You know, they were trying to push some car out of the out of the snow and all that sort of thing.

Well, you look at the video, I mean, it's just simply not the case. But she got bad information.

[16:55:00]

And a lot of times, you know, that first information you get is not going to be accurate. That's why you have to wait until you have facts before you start making those kinds of statements, especially strong statements like domestic terrorism and all that sort of thing. It's just kind of like inflaming things.

Listening to Josh, and he's absolutely right. This is going to come down to judgment. It depends on what the officer was thinking at the moment, at the time that the shooting occurred.

And I would also argue one thing that is not really often, you know, even tactically -- I mean, when he fires that gun, he's got two of his own people right there in the line of fire. I mean, so he didn't even have a clear background. So, I mean, there's a lot of things to this.

HUNT: All right. Chief Charles Ramsey, Josh Campbell, thank you both very much. Really appreciate it.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HUNT: Thanks to my panel. Thanks to all of you at home for joining us as well.

Don't go anywhere. "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts right now.