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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
ICE Appears To Escalate Aggressive Tactics Against Protesters; Trump: I've Been Told No Executions In Iran Today, But "Who Knows?"; FBI Searches Washington Post Reporter's Home. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired January 14, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:00]
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Really a moment we don't know everything about.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We don't.
And we're not sure exactly how much we're going to see after splashdown. Anticipated some point after 3:00 a.m. obviously, medical privacy is a concern. We'll see what we learn from NASA in the coming days.
Thanks so much for joining us this afternoon.
THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now.
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KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's wonderful to have you with us on this Wednesday.
Right now in Minneapolis, tensions are rising amid growing protests against immigration operations in the city. Today, a federal judge denied Minnesota's request for a temporary restraining order against the Department of Homeland Security.
To get a sense of just how chaotic the situation is on the ground, we're going to show you this one moment when a woman was detained. You're going to see federal officers pull her from her car, at one point even using knives to cut her seatbelt.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
HUNT: So, we at CNN have reached out to DHS for more information about the woman you saw there. Why it was that she was detained. We've not yet heard back.
So as that is unfolding, we also have this new CNN polling. So we find that 51 percent of Americans think ICE is making Americas cities less safe. Just 31 percent say they're making things safer.
Two sources tell CNN that the Pentagon is planning to send dozens of military lawyers to Minneapolis to assist in federal prosecutions. That is on top of the almost 1,000 additional border patrol agents who are expected to deploy as the White House literally says they're doubling down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM HOMAN, BORDER CZAR: Minneapolis, their sanctuary city. You know, if they let us in their jail and stop being sanctuary city, we could arrest the bad guy in the safety and security of the jail. But because they knowingly released them, now, we got to go into community and find them. Then they're mad. We're in the community.
We're doing the right thing. We're going to keep with it and big and protest all they want. We're just going to double down, enforce the law. And I said for months, we're going to surge resources and sanctuary cities because that's where the problem is. We know there are some public safety threats. We're going to send the agents where we know the biggest problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Let's get off the sidelines, head into THE ARENA. My panel is here.
We are also joined by CNN security correspondent Josh Campbell.
And, Josh, I know you've been taking a really close look at video of these confrontations with ICE. You have a law enforcement background yourself. Can you walk us through what it is that we're looking at? What do you make of it?
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, we're seeing this onslaught on social media with people posting videos showing these encounters between activists, between demonstrators and these immigration agents that are out doing these enhanced enforcement operations. And quite often, we see, you know, this turn to conflict. You have people that are sometimes tackled by agents. They're placed under arrest. As you mentioned, we showed the video there at the top of this woman who was recently driving there in Minneapolis.
It appeared that she was coming through some type of area where ICE agents were engaged in their operations there. They were trying to stop her. It appears that car keeps moving forward and they're trying to get her out.
At one point, the window was shattered. You see them bring her out. You can hear her say that she's disabled or she's on her way to some type of doctor's appointment. We're waiting for additional details.
That's one example. We also saw recently of a video we'll show you here of a man who was standing in front of a group of vehicles that were driven by immigration agents, and you actually see one of the agents come around and shove him into oncoming traffic.
Now, what you can't see is it was a bus that came to a stop right there as the man went into that lane. So again, it's these types of videos that continue to cause a lot of the reaction that we're seeing. I think it's a couple quick points to note, Kasie. You know, there's this debate that's going on with both sides. I think
a lot of times, you know, maybe people aren't understanding the other side. It's important to note that it is a crime to interfere with the actions of an immigration agent. And often that's what we're seeing on some of these videos. They're trying to stop immigration officers from doing their work, which can result in arrest.
And so, you know, people have to understand that there is a consequence to trying to interfere with their work. On the flip side, from a law enforcement perspective, I've talked to numerous experts who say, you know, have we learned nothing over the last five years, specifically when it comes to de-escalation, trying to slow these situations down.
And that requires law enforcement officers to have a calm, cool head, to have good judgment. You know, I was in law enforcement. I was called numerous terrible things by people at times. I can remember one gang member I arrested who insulted about four generations of my mother's family.
Did I want to fight him? Who wouldn't? But I was the law enforcement officer in the equation.
And again, these officers have to act with judgment. They have to understand that they are the agents of the state. And so I think that's what we're seeing a lot of these occasions, it appears that not only are agents lawfully arresting people that are interfering with their work.
But there appears in some of these videos to be kind of a punishment element to it where you see them, you know, roughing people up and tackling them, throwing them down to the ground, which that obviously just whips up these crowds even more. So, this doesn't appear to be, you know, going away any time soon, especially because the administration says that they're essentially doubling down.
HUNT: Josh, as someone who's been in the field and in these situations, what impact do you think that it has on these agents in the field as they do their work, when they hear the things that the administration is saying about the ways in which they are supporting them
CAMPBELL: Yeah. Well, to be sure, it's a difficult job, right? You're out there. You have a mission to enforce the immigration laws of the United States. And were in this time where politics has been infused in law enforcement. And so, there is that aspect. You do have agents that are essentially on the receiving end of a lot of that ire because of the politics.
But on the flip side, when it comes to accountability, I mean, this is so important. You know, again, I mentioned I was in law enforcement. We knew that any time we conducted some kind of action, we would be second and triple guessed by the courts, by prosecutors, by internal affairs divisions, right?
Agents and officers knew that you had to do your job by the book. You couldn't cut corners, or there would be these consequences. Interestingly, and I hear this in talking with law enforcement sources who worry that the message the administration is sending to many of these agents is because they come out so quickly to exonerate the actions of any agent very quickly, that is essentially sending a message that they are untouchable, that there aren't these constraints, that there aren't these consequences that are out there.
Again, I've looked at numerous videos out there. Not everything an agent does in this video is bad. Not everything an agent does in some of these videos is right. And so -- but it is important to note that that that has to have some impact on the psyche of these agents, knowing that they're essentially given the green light, as the presidents administration has told them, that you are, quote, "unleashed".
HUNT: All right, Josh, stand by for us. Really appreciate your unique perspective here.
But my panel is here in THE ARENA. We're joined by CNN political commentator, host of the "Off the Cuff" podcast, S.E. Cupp, political analyst and author of the "Blow the Stack" newsletter, Charles Blow; former New York City Mayor Bill De Blasio; and former Trump campaign manager Bill Stepien.
Welcome to all of you. Thank you so much for being here.
Charles, I'd actually like to start with you on this question because, you know, policing in America over the last -- you know, this is what, 2026, if you go back to 2020, the arc has been difficult and complicated, and there certainly have been city police departments that, in the wake of George Floyd, had trouble recruiting, perhaps didn't feel supported by their communities. But this is an entirely different matter. What we are now seeing on the streets.
How do you hold those things and think about where we actually should be when it comes to this?
CHARLES BLOW, POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I don't conflate the two. So, I don't conflate local policing with what ICE is doing. They are operating in very different ways. We know the recruiting, how local police are recruited. We know they're kind of -- how they're supposed to act because they have handbooks that are public. There's accountability. Sometimes there are --
HUNT: And their neighbors, right?
BLOW: Their neighbors. They're also community kind of groups within the police departments, in many cases, to keep them accountable. Kind of the ombudsman for the police.
This is not what we have now. We have an administration that has basically charged this group of people to do outrageous things. There are people who are signing up to do those outrageous things. And now we look at the people in the public who are outraged that outrageous things are being done and saying, you have no right to do that. We are saying to those -- to those ICE agents that you have absolute
immunity. The vice president said that. Stephen Miller has now tweeted that.
What does that even mean that you have absolute immunity? Are you saying that the president has created a law enforcement force of his own, heavily financed, we don't know who's all being recruited. We don't know what -- who they are because their faces are covered and they're not accountable to anyone or in any way. That's not how community policing works at all.
HUNT: And, you know this well, Mr. Mayor.
BILL DE BLASIO, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: They don't have absolute immunity. Let's start with that. Stephen Miller's telling them something that's very dangerous, but it's not legally true.
The experience I always come back to is the death of Eric Garner in 2014. I had Bill Bratton as my police commissioner, the preeminent police leader in the country. The next day he said, look, look at that video. That looks like a chokehold. That's not actually allowable.
So, he sent the exact opposite message. He sent a message to the men and women of NYPD. You have to be accountable. You have to follow the rules.
And we literally made a decision to train 35,000 officers in de- escalation, which has had a profound impact.
So exactly to your point, Kasie, American policing was actually moving towards de-escalation increasingly, and it was working. This is not law enforcement. This is thuggery. And it's dangerous.
And actually, you talk to police professionals. They don't want to be associated with this.
HUNT: S.E., I will say I talked to someone who thinks a lot about -- about this from a political perspective, who was saying that, you know, for Democrats, obviously, there have been some challenges. Republicans kind of had the edge on crime and safety, but that in some ways, this gives them a massive opening to embrace community law enforcement because of these pictures that we're seeing and these events that are happening.
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, the politics of this is really interesting. I think Trump and Republicans believe the politics of this is good for all the reasons, right? It's a distraction from a bad economy, Epstein files, et cetera. It puts more protesters in the street that justifies more military and ICE presence. It sends Democrats out onto the airwaves saying abolish ICE, abolish the police. Republicans think that's good for them.
I actually think it's the opposite. This is very bad politics. We can tell from our new CNN/SSRS poll that on every single question about whether this attack or murder of Renee Good was justified, no, every single question Trump and his administration and ICE is underwater on this.
I think Democrats can, if they're smart, make a really interesting play politically on this where they're not saying abolish ICE, abolish police, no law enforcement, but are sounding like Elissa Slotkin saying, of course, we need law enforcement, but this needs a wholesale revisiting of how our immigration policy is being enacted.
HUNT: Enforced.
CUPP: And if you want these thugs to continue infiltrating your cities, then by all means keep voting Republican. But if you want a different way and you're sick of this because we know you are from polling, you've got to give Democrats another look.
HUNT: Well, let's put up, Bill, some of that polling that we're seeing. So, we asked, is the use of force in Minneapolis appropriate or inappropriate? Fifty-six percent of Americans told us it was inappropriate. Just 26 percent said it was appropriate. Half of Americans, 51 percent said that ICE was making cities less safe.
And then they're also -- they were also asked about whether this was a reflection of a bigger problem with ICE. And again, 51 percent were keeping -- continuing to see this 50 plus percent of people with real questions about what's going on.
I mean, we know that the president had Americans with him on the border during the campaign, but is this going too far?
BILL STEPIEN, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Well, I've heard Trump's name, Vance's name, Homan's name, Stephen Miller's name. I haven't heard Mayor Frey, Governor Walz, Ilhan Omar, that is not a safe policing environment.
Donald Trump didn't create that environment. They are whipping their supporters, those protesters up into a frenzy. If you want to protest and hold a sign, make your voice heard. Go protest outside a congressman's office or a senator's office.
Those law enforcement -- law enforcement officials are doing their job. That's plain and simple.
HUNT: We can hear a little bit from the mayor, Jacob Frey. And, Mayor De Blasio, I'll let you get in. Let's watch
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR JACOB FREY (D), MINNESOTA: If you commit a crime, if you commit fraud, if you commit a carjacking or a murderer, you should be investigated, charged, prosecuted, held accountable, and yes, arrested and put in jail. What I am saying is that a lot of the people that ICE is picking up right now in our city are not a problem for Minneapolis.
They've opened businesses. They've been here for longer than I've been here. They contribute so beautiful and greatly to our city. They have families here. They're our neighbors. And yeah, we love them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Mr. Mayor?
DE BLASIO: Yeah. Look, I understand where Bill's coming from, but I don't see a lot of evidence of Tim Walz whipping up protesters. In fact, I think he's been extraordinarily measured.
HUNT: Well, he has said, go out, protest.
DE BLASIO : But that's different than -- but asking people to exercise their constitutional American rights is different than whipping up people and suggesting, do illegal acts or harm a law enforcement officer.
But that said, I think something we have to be honest about in these Democratic jurisdictions. As a former mayor, I would like to see the mayors and governors get their local police and their state police between the protesters and ICE consistently.
And I think we've seen that in New York City. And it has helped. I'm not blaming the victims here. I think a lot of the protesters have been really mistreated. But I do think it's not about playing into Trump's fiction about --
HUNT: But in Minneapolis, they specifically don't allow that.
DE BLASIO: See, I'm saying I think that's a mistake, and I respect their choice.
[16:15:01]
And I obviously think the protesters are being mistreated. I think what's happening with ICE is dangerous. But I think, practically speaking, and this is a New York City bias, perhaps, I'd rather have our officers who know how to work with protests of all kinds upfront with the protesters and keep them as far away from officers as possible.
So there aren't these provocative incidents that then ICE takes advantage of and then does horrible, violent things with.
HUNT: Yeah. Josh Campbell, you wanted to jump in. Let me give you the last word.
CAMPBELL: Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, as you look at Minneapolis specifically, I think what the mayor said there is what we've seen in certain aspects where you have law enforcement that will come and provide some type of security. But Minneapolis has pointed out, and we've seen this in other jurisdictions as well. They simply don't have the numbers, right?
You have thousands of federal agents that are coming into the city. You have hundreds of police officers. And in fact, as Minneapolis officials there said, you know, do we want our officers caravanning around the city, you know, for every ICE operation, on the off chance that there's some type of conflict. And from their standpoint, it's simply a resource issue. They also
point out that they are -- it's the taxpayer dollars that are footing the bill for millions of dollars in overtime for these police officers. So, I just point that out because I talked to police all the time, and they say that this is not an area they are particularly happy to be in, which is, you know, one perspective.
HUNT: Really interesting. Josh Campbell, thank you very much for your perspective. I really appreciate it.
The rest of our panel will be with us throughout the rest of the hour. Coming up next here in THE ARENA. Why the FBI is searching the home of a "Washington Post" reporter and how its connected to an ongoing investigation into a leak of classified material.
Plus, new comments just coming in from President Trump on Iran. What he's saying about potential U.S. military involvement as Tehran runs a deadly crackdown on anti-regime demonstrators.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've been told that the killing in Iran is stopping, and it's stopped. It's stopping, and there's no plan for executions or an execution or executions. So I've been told that on good authority. We'll find out about it. I'm sure if it happens, we'll all be very upset, including you will be very upset.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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[16:21:30]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We have been informed by very important sources on the other side. And they said the killing has stopped and the executions won't take place. It was supposed to be a lot of executions today and that the executions won't take place. And we're going to find out.
I mean, I'll find out after this. You'll find out. But we've been told on good authority, and I hope it's true. Who knows?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Who knows?
After threatening military strikes against Iran for cracking down on anti-government protesters, President Trump now says he has it on good authority that the killings have stopped. A U.S. based rights group estimates at least 2,400 protesters have been killed since the start of Iran's brutal crackdown last month, but an Internet blackout has made it really difficult to verify the extent of the violence there.
Sources tell CNN that President Trump increasingly believes that he must take decisive action against the Iranian regime, as some personnel have been urged to leave the U.S.'s largest military base in the Middle East as a precaution.
With us now here in THE ARENA, former NATO supreme allied commander, CNN's senior military analyst, the retired Admiral James Stavridis.
Admiral, always grateful to have your perspective here.
What is the president, do you think basing this on? I mean, he says they've stopped the killing, but then adds, who knows?
ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS (RET.), CNN SENIOR MILITARY ANALYST: Let's hope and take him at his word that very high level sources. And as you know, Kasie, there's always back-channel conversations going on. A few days ago, we heard a flicker of hope for negotiation.
I think the problem is right at the top of that rotten theocracy. The Ayatollah Khamenei, who is in his 80s, is very ill, I think is not in a mood to compromise. But let's hope that next tier down, some of them realize what's coming if the United States decides to conduct strikes.
So, as the president says, we'll see. But I think the next 48 hours are going to be quite telling.
HUNT: Admiral, we have seen this president suggest he might do something, suggest more strongly. He might do something. Oftentimes, things that seem very much outside the realm of what we would consider to be normal. And then he's gone ahead and done it, like, you know, plucking Nicolas Maduro out of Venezuela.
What do you and how do you hear the way that he is talking about this in Iran? Because in some ways, you have to assume that if he's thinking about it, he's probably going to do it?
STAVRIDIS: If I were in Tehran at a high level, I'd be very concerned. And you mentioned Nicolas Maduro. I think for the Iranians, they're really telling example is their nuclear program, which he said we were going to strike and we ended up doing so and doing so quite effectively.
This would be, my view, a higher level of strikes. It would probably run the spectrum from cyberattacks to information attacks to conducting means of getting more of the protesters' voices out to actual kinetic strikes, Kasie, going against senior leadership targets of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, perhaps even going down to the police and those who are actually conducting these attacks on protesters.
[16:25:05]
So, if I'm Iranian, the Trump I'm worried about is the so-called FAFO, F around and find out as opposed to other times when President Trump has not followed through. On this one, I think he'll follow through.
HUNT: And, sir, speaking of follow-through, I mean, the other sort of big question out there is Greenland. Do you think President Trump's going to Greenland? STAVRIDIS: Well, I hope not. If followed through means, you know, whistle up the 82nd Airborne and get them up there, that would be, in my view, a real mistake. We ought to continue to try and purchase Greenland. And as far as I can tell, neither the Greenlanders nor the Danes are willing to do a sale at this point.
But that leaves a third option, which is diplomacy moving, more military up there, but doing it in conjunction with the Danes and with the Greenlanders. I think we'll end up not doing anything, shall we say, dramatic here. I certainly hope not. If we did, my poor former NATO alliance would be in really difficult straits.
HUNT: Just the fact that you put it that way, my poor former NATO alliance -- I mean, we are in a remarkable place.
Admiral, stand by for me. I'd like you to continue to be part of this conversation with the panel.
Bill Stepien, when you listen to what the president is talking about with Iran, Greenland is part of it, too. Obviously, what we saw with Venezuela, I mean, is that -- how is this what he campaigned on in terms of like America first and, you know, not entangling us across the globe? Because the opposite seems to be playing out.
STEPIEN: I mean, MAGA is what he wants it to be, right? It could be what it is today is going to be different than next week. I mean, he created it. It's not what Marjorie Taylor Greene thinks it is. It's what Donald Trump does.
Look, I think America first means America, not last. And it's protecting interests. I think, you know, I think people, Democrats would usually be, you know, cheering, you know, saving, you know, you know, human rights activities supporting human rights activities.
Look, this is a president who does what he thinks is right. Marco Rubio, I think, has gotten rave reviews for his actions and he's consulting with Donald Trump. He's keeping his options open, right? As he's having these open discussions. Ships are moving, assets are moving resources. Resources are moving. We'll see what happens.
BLOW: I think Democrats would be cheering if the hypocrisy wasn't so noxious here. You can't say that you're willing to step in and defend peaceful protesters against the 80-year-old tyrant on another part of the world, and then have your ICE agents running around roughing people up who are peacefully protesting in this country against people, an 80-year-old who they don't agree with.
That just doesn't make any sense to a lot of people. I understand the strategic American interest in getting -- changing the government of Iran, but we are here watching what's happening on American streets, and it really is not. I really hate when we couch this conversation about whether or not its legal or not. I always tell people that all of my heroes went to jail because at the time that they were protesting, they were protesting things that were illegal for them to protest. It's -- the real question is whether or not it is moral, and the moral
-- on the moral front is where this president is failing, failing the American people, failing his own supporters, and failing the world. And I think that that is the prism through which we have to look at what he's doing, how he keeps changing his position, how he keeps, kind of bullying our own friends around the world, bullying American citizens, calling people enemies who are citizens of this country. We can't -- I don't know how we can even continue to make sense of what's happening here.
DE BLASIO: He's not MAGA anymore. I think I hear Bill saying that he created MAGA. MAGA is starting to take on a mind of its own, and one of the fissures we're seeing is a lot of folks in MAGA believed him when he used to talk about not intervening in other countries, not spending America's money overseas, but focusing on America. Meanwhile, inflation keeps skyrocketing.
And now we're in Iran, we're in Greenland, we're in Venezuela. This is not what a lot of the MAGA base actually wants.
CUPP: I have to agree with Bill Stepien. MAGA is whatever Trump says it is, and that's because it's not undergirded by principles or policies. It's just Trump's impulses.
And I was thinking about Greenland, and I was remembering that trip that Don Jr. and some other Trump reps took to Greenland.
HUNT: Vance and his wife, Usha.
CUPP: Yeah. And there's a quote, that a MAGA influencer said right after they all got back and Trump said, we need Greenland. And he says we need Greenland because it makes America dream again, that we're not just this sad, low testosterone, beta male slouching in our chair, allowing the world to run us over.
[16:30:00]
It is the resurrection of masculine American energy. It is the return of manifest destiny.
That was Charlie Kirk using manifest destiny to decide we are owed Greenland, sovereign territory under Denmark. We are owed it because of manifest destiny.
A year earlier, Charlie Kirk and like every MAGA acolyte was saying, America first means mind your own business. No more forever wars, no more adventuring overseas, no more taking territory, no more imperialism.
It is completely flipped because there's no principle or conviction under anything MAGA does. It's just whatever Trump signals.
STEPIEN: I understand the mayor's point of view. Trump's numbers among his base, Republicans are as strong as they've ever been. So there's not dissatisfaction with where he's taking the party or the base or the movement. They're right behind him as they -- as they always have been.
BLOW: I would be very -- I would be very nervous about --
CUPP: Without principle and conviction.
BLOW: I'd be very nervous about that, though. I believe that that, you know, the American people have been trained to believe that they are just people, that they are fair. Even if it was a mythology, at some point, they still were trained to believe that.
I've been doing a lot of research recently about Mississippi. You know, the first state constitutional convention to write white supremacy into the code. That's basically how we get Jim Crow. They had had a terror campaign for 15 years.
You know, the reason that these white supremacists called that convention, part of that reason was that they believed that the tactics that they were using were immoral. They got tired. They looked at what they were doing, hanging, killing, intimidating, fraud. And they said, this is just not us.
We are tired of this. We have to find a better way to disenfranchise these black people. I believe that people wear down. I believe that they see these images on their -- on their screens. People snatched out of cars next -- feet on necks. Children crying.
Yes. In the beginning, everybody cheers. After a while, there's a part of us as Americans that just says, I don't believe that it's us. I don't believe that this is us.
HUNT: Yeah. All right, we're going to leave it there. Admiral Stavridis, thank you so much for joining us, sir. Always great to see you. Hope to see you -- see you again soon.
Coming up next here in THE ARENA, the video that is lighting up the Internet. What prompted the president of the United States to flip off an auto worker at a Ford plant? What that worker is now saying about that moment.
Plus, inside the Democrats debate over money for ICE and just how ready the party is or not to use an upcoming funding deadline to put constraints on the president's immigration crackdown?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ROSA DELAURO (D-CT): I do not support an increase in ICE funding. Can I repeat that? I do not support increasing funding for ICE.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:37:12]
HUNT: Welcome back. This afternoon, we are learning new details about a highly unusual FBI
search at the home of a "Washington Post" reporter earlier today. This morning, the FBI executed a search warrant at the home of "Washington Post" reporter Hannah Natanson, seizing one phone and two computers that were inside. The attorney general, Pam Bondi, writing on X that Natanson was, quote, "obtaining and reporting classified and illegally leaked information from a Pentagon contractor", and that the Trump administration will, quote, "not tolerate illegal leaks of classified information that threaten national security".
Last month, Natanson penned a first person piece about her experience as, in her own words, the, quote, "federal government whisperer", after receiving hundreds of tips from current and former federal employees about the Trump administrations transformation of the government.
According to a source, Natanson was told that she is not a target of the investigation, which suggests the FBI is pursuing one or more of her sources.
Joining me now in THE ARENA to discuss, the top Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee, Congressman Adam Smith of Washington state.
Congressman, thank you very much for joining us today.
What message does it send? While she is not the target of this investigation or told she's not the target, it is highly unusual. This kind of aggressive action against a reporter.
REP. ADAM SMITH (D-WA): Yeah, it's hard to say with the Trump administration. I mean, the Trump administration is certainly not the first administration to try to plug leaks and to try to identify sources for where those leaks are coming from. It is unusual to do this sort of a raid on the personal property and the personal home of a reporter, but then also with the Trump administration, given their history of how they've treated the media, the lawsuits that they filed against media companies for reporting they don't like.
Secretary Hegseth kicking everybody out of the Pentagon who wouldn't allow the stories to be pre-approved. I think it's also fair to look at this as another effort to intimidate the media so that they won't write stories that the Trump administration doesn't like. And I think a clear violation of the First Amendment.
HUNT: So as this is playing out here in the U.S., we see in Iran, anti-regime protesters out in the streets. Now, this started last month.
And we have the president out there today. He says that he has been assured on good authority that there will be no executions, although he says, "We'll see".
What is your understanding? I know you have seen -- you've been briefed on all of this. What's your understanding of how imminent American action may be in Iran? SMITH: Yeah, well, two pieces of this. First of all, this is as far
as its ever gone in Iran in terms of the protests. This is different. There have been many protests against this regime over the years.
This has risen to a level that a lot of people, experts that I've talked to before, who would say, yeah, but the regime is not really in trouble.
[16:40:03]
I think there's a genuine feeling out there that the regime is in trouble.
Now, it may not necessarily reach that point, but it's closer than it's ever been. And then if you follow the pattern of what President Trump has done in his second term, it was different in the first term. But on the first time, we bombed Iran on the brief three-month war against Yemen, on the removal of Maduro in Venezuela -- Trump, when he usually starts talking about this and then specifically threatening, he follows through and does something.
So, I think it's reasonable to assume that sometime in the next several days to one week, President Trump will do some sort of military action in Iran. I think that is at least a 50/50 possibility at this point given that pattern.
HUNT: How far do you think he may go?
SMITH: I don't know, I mean, you can look at some targets to sort of target the Iranian regime's internal security. The people who are trying to put down the protesters. But I either don't know or can't talk about how much fidelity we have.
Are there available targets that would make sense there that wouldn't risk the civilian population? And the other big risk is if the U.S. does this, it runs the risk of giving the Iranian administration, the regime, an excuse to say, look, we always told you that it was the U.S. It was these outside agitators who are trying to take down our country.
And as unhappy as the Iranian people are with their current regime, they're equally unhappy with foreign, usually western powers thinking they can dictate affairs in Iran. So there's a risk that a military action by President Trump would actually undermine the effort to change the regime.
HUNT: What do you think we should do?
SMITH: Yeah. I don't think we should get involved militarily. I think engaging regime change, dragging ourselves into a war in the Middle East, another war in the Middle East is incredibly dangerous and expense that the U.S. shouldn't engage in. And an enormous risk with, as I said, uncertain outcomes.
I mean, part of what President Trump ran on was the idea that were done trying to fix all the world's problems. Now, President Trump had different reasons for saying that. But I tend to agree with the sentiment because we don't really have the ability to do that.
It winds up costing a lot and not getting the results that we wanted. We saw that in Afghanistan, we saw it in Iraq, we saw it in Libya. It is a lesson we should learn about the limitations of military power to reshape the world in the way that we want, and we should be more cautious in how we approach that.
HUNT: If this is the most available opportunity that there has been for this regime to fall, as you alluded to at the top of this, is there a world where you could see it being in the U.S. interest for us to encourage the ayatollah off the stage
SMITH: Yes. I mean, with understanding the limitations that we have to do that. I mean, if there was some magic switch to flick where we could easily, you know, make this regime go away and have something better take its place -- sure. There's just not that I can see.
Now, someone can educate me on that and show me a path that gets us there. But understand, the other part of this problem is you don't know what's going to come next. I mean, when the shah fell back in 1979, at least part of that revolution was supposed to be a democratic revolution.
There were people who were rising up against the shah because they wanted greater freedom and greater democracy. They didn't win the power struggle that followed. And there's no guarantee how this would turn out either it could turn into or like Libya.
You know, Gadhafi went away and we wound up with what are we into now like 14, 15 years of a civil war at this point. So that unpredictability should guide -- should guide our thinking, I believe.
HUNT: So, sir, I'm out of time. But I really do want to ask you briefly. You've said this president threatens and then he does. Is that going to happen with Greenland?
SMITH: I'm worried about it. I mean, I have not gotten a full readout of the meetings today. I've been busy with other things, but I've read the headlines that say it didn't go well.
And I think the other part of this that I should have mentioned is Trump is feeling emboldened. He doesn't pay attention to off year elections or the fact that his poll numbers are going down and Republicans are losing. He bombed Iran and nobody stopped him. He took Maduro and nobody stopped him.
I think he is feeling emboldened in a way that is a fundamental threat -- well, to the rule of law and our Constitution. So no, I would not put it past him deciding to -- I don't know, well, I'm not going to say that, but do some sort of military operation --
HUNT: Oh, come on, say it.
SMITH: Well, no, I was going to say, because it might imply that I know of a specific plan.
HUNT: I see.
SMITH: I do not know of a specific plan.
HUNT: Okay.
SMITH: I was going to say he could send 500 marines into Greenland and take it over, and he could. He shouldn't for a thousand different reasons, but he could.
And as emboldened as he is feeling, what is the check on him right now? The Republicans in Congress have walked away from their responsibility to uphold the rights and responsibilities of our Congress.
[16:45:03]
They've given President Trump carte blanche on everything.
So, he's feeling empowered. And I really hope that Congress -- I hope the Senate passes that War Powers resolution on Venezuela as a minimum. But yeah, there's a huge risk of that.
HUNT: Yeah. Well, so far today, Admiral Stavridis has wondered about the 82nd Airborne taking Greenland. We've got 500 marines from you. I guess we're going to find out who's right.
Congressman Adam Smith, thank you very much.
SMITH: Hopefully not, but yes.
HUNT: Very, very, very grateful to have you. Please do come back soon.
All right. Coming up next here in THE ARENA, imagine getting the middle finger from the president of the United States.
One man in Michigan did. Now what he's saying, how the White House is responding.
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[16:50:05]
HUNT: Welcome back.
President Trump's tour of a Michigan Ford plant yesterday did not go exactly as it was planned. You probably have already seen this video that was obtained by TMZ. It shows the president of the United States, Donald Trump, dropping a couple f bombs and flipping off a factory worker who had this to say to the president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FACTORY WORKER: (INAUDIBLE) pedophile protector!
(END VIDEO CLIP) HUNT: So that factory worker now telling "The Washington Post" that he has no regrets about the incident. He was calling out the president's handling of the Jeffrey Epstein matter, he told "The Post".
The White House released this fiery statement calling the auto worker a, quote, lunatic and characterizing the president's reaction as nothing short of, quote, "appropriate and unambiguous".
Bill Stepien, what? If you are a politician, is this ever okay to do to a voter? I mean, this is a citizen of the United States of America. He's the president of the United States.
STEPIEN: This is authentic and real, okay? Authentic and real. If people wanted the focus group scripted politician, they had a choice in '24.
HUNT: I'm not saying that. I'm saying the power dynamics are a little off, man.
STEPIEN: The mayor knows this. If you get in the face of a guy from Queens, he's going to give it back to you. That's what happened there.
DE BLASIO: Give it back to him without -- hold on, Bill. You can give it back to him without degrading the office of president of the United States.
Also, look at the insecurity of Donald Trump. Look at the ego dynamics here. The Epstein matter won't go away. He takes Maduro from Venezuela, he threatens Iran. He's going to take Greenland, all these things.
And it comes back. Epstein, Epstein, Epstein, like it's haunting him. That's where you think you get this ridiculous reaction from him.
HUNT: It makes him, like, look like it bothered him.
DE BLASIO: Yeah, exactly.
HUNT: Bill, did it not? I mean, does it not like flipping someone off or saying that it makes it look like what he said bothered him?
STEPIEN: It's real. It's authentic, right? I mean, this is what, more than any quality that voters look for these days in their politicians, it's authenticity. It's not views on abortion or fiscal conservatism. It's be real.
I mean, you were -- you were a Red Sox at the Yankees games. You were real.
DE BLASIO: But if he's authentic, he --
BLOW: No one wants this.
DE BLASIO: Right, no one wants that. BLOW: No one wants this. It is, you know, this -- maybe -- maybe it's
red meat. Maybe it's red meat. Maybe you say MAGA loves it, but MAGA keeps caving on every principle that they ever had.
When you see evangelicals continue to support this foolishness and coarse behavior and cruelty --
STEPIEN: Stand up for yourself.
BLOW: No, no. I'm sorry. No, that's not what. But, you know, you have to believe that there's some of those people who are taught a Jesus- centric form of Christianity. This this one where it takes all the Jesus out of it and has people behaving like this. No one wants that.
And I can't help but look at the hypocrisy of that of degrading the presidency. Obama put his feet on the table on the desk, degrading the presidency.
HUNT: He wore a tan suit.
BLOW: Tan suit.
HUNT: Okay?
BLOW: Kanye -- Kanye West came on the stage, and when Taylor Swift accepted her award, Obama called him a jackass. He has to apologize. He actually was behaving like a jackass, but he had to apologize for that.
But no, here, they don't apologize. They say it was direct. You say this is what they want. He's from queens.
It's kind of sleazy. It's kind of a -- it's so hypocritical.
DE BLASIO: Let's talk politics. Don't flip off an auto worker in Michigan with the midterms coming.
HUNT: It just seems like. Yes, like auto workers in Michigan are like the people who sent Donald Trump to the White House.
DE BLASIO: Heart and soul, right?
HUNT: That's what I don't understand. I completely take your point about authenticity and whatever, but it's like you're literally flipping off people who make things in America, right? Because like, Jeffrey Epstein is under your skin. But how does that make you look strong? That's what I don't understand.
STEPIEN: Don't back down. Give it back to him. Don't get in my face.
CUPP: I can't, but actually --
STEPIEN: And I disagree. Some people -- some people are cheering today.
CUPP: No, I think -- BLOW: Those people were degrading. Those people, they're degrading
themselves by doing that. When you start to cheer for things like this, when you start to cheer because he's being cruel, when you -- when you ever you engage with cruelty in a way that makes it look like you are a champion of that cruelty, it degrades you.
So yes, even voters are degrading themselves by continuing to follow this, by continuing to applaud this.
HUNT: S.E.?
CUPP: Okay. Plenty of people want this. Plenty of people. I lament this, but plenty of people are here for Trump's performative cruelty. It's why J.D. Vance goes out on a day that a mother was shot and killed with zero sympathy for her.
And all this, like, robust vitriol. It's why they do it, because it does appeal to a wing of the base that wants more and more cruel -- I call it cruelty. You call it authenticity. Both can be true at the same time.
[16:55:01]
HUNT: I both get this. But the guy was yelling about Epstein. That's what I don't get. That's the piece of it that makes it --
CUPP: I don't get how this hasn't happened before. Like this -- I'm shocked that we have not caught Donald Trump on camera giving the finger to someone before. I'm -- honestly, this is perfectly in keeping with who he is, and I'm not at all surprised that he did it.
BLOW: And what about the cruelty to the victims? Always remember that.
CUPP: Oh, yeah.
HUNT: And I will -- I will just leave us. We, unfortunately, are up against a hard break. But in case you think that this has never happened before, here is Vice President Nelson Rockefeller flipping off hecklers while on a campaign trip with vice presidential candidate Bob Dole in 1976. Okay?
So just in case you think this is a Trump thing, it is definitely not.
We'll be right back.
BLOW: The New York thing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HUNT: All right. Thanks to my panel and to all of you at home for watching.
Jake Tapper standing by for "THE LEAD". Hi, Jake.
