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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt

Sources: Trump Frustrated Immigration Message Is Getting Lost; Now: 14 States Under State Of Emergency Amid Winter Storm; Anti- Abortion Activists Push Trump To Target Medication Abortion. Aired 4- 5p ET

Aired January 23, 2026 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:08]

TOMMY CALDWELL, FRIEND & MENTOR TO ALEX HONNOLD: Like he doesn't seem to need a whole lot himself. So, this is in some ways a way to give. Even though from afar it seems like a very selfish endeavor.

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: Tommy, thanks so much for joining us.

And "THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT" starts right now.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Welcome to THE ARENA. Kasie Hunt is off. I'm Pamela Brown. It's great to have you with us on this busy Friday.

Right now, in Minneapolis, protests and arrests are underway with local unions and faith leaders calling for a so-called economic blackout to protest ICE operations in the city. We're now weeks into these protests, and sources tell CNN that President Donald Trump is privately expressing frustration that his immigration messaging is getting lost amid the chaotic videos of protests and arrests. Those sources saying that many of the president's advisers recognize that they need to contain the fallout.

The latest wave of anger on the ground being driven by outrage over the detainment of a five-year-old child alongside his father. This is Liam Conejo Ramos, and this morning, CNN spoke with the superintendent of his school district, who arrived on the scene after Liam was taken by ICE.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZENA STENVIK, SUPERINTENDENT COLUMBIA HEIGHTS PUBLIC SCHOOLS: We're a very small town, so there were people crying and I jumped out of my vehicle and went straight to the yard and said, where's the child? Where's the child? Assuming that I was there to, you know, take my student and then, you know, call their emergency contacts and reunite them with someone and then a community member tearfully said they've taken the child. They've taken the child.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: The Department of Homeland Security claims that Liam's father is a, quote, illegal alien and that he fled from their agents and, quote, abandoned his child. Now we at CNN cannot yet independently verify the details of this incident, and their family's lawyer says that they both came to the country legally and were applying for asylum. They went through a process that was established under the Biden administration.

Today, border patrol officials doubled down on their version of events and argued that they did everything they could to reunite Liam with his family.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GREGORY BOVINO, BORDER PATROL COMMANDER AT LARGE: They're not being separated. That child is in the least restrictive setting possible. When I say that we're experts, both Border Patrol and ICE, in dealing with immigration cases that involve children, probably the most experienced anywhere in the United States by any domestic law enforcement agency.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Let's get off the sidelines and head right into THE ARENA. My panel is here, along with CNN's Sara Sidner, Kristen Holmes and Priscilla Alvarez.

Kristen, let's kick it off with you, because you have this new reporting on the president's private frustrations with his immigration messaging. What more are you learning?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, this is what we really start to see. We saw start to spill over as President Trump took the podium at the briefing. It was the last minute ad. And part of the reason that he did that just a few days ago is because he thought that his messaging on immigration is getting lost. And of course, as we know, President Trump believes that he is his own best messenger.

And what you saw there was him tick through these various mug shots, holding up what people in Minnesota or as he alleged, and his administration alleges, have been apprehended for serious crimes underneath his ICE crackdown. It's also where you're starting to hear this kind of softening of rhetoric. The White House itself, they are not changing the messaging. They are not changing what they are doing, their acts on the ground, but they don't want the optics to be the narrative around immigration.

And what we've seen is this five-year-old boy, these images of him with ICE agents standing around him. We obviously saw Renee Good get shot by ICE agents. Weve seen protests in the streets, and President Trump has privately said that he believes that his own messaging, which he wants it to be all about taking dangerous criminals off the street, is getting completely sidelined in this kind of chaos that you're seeing in Minnesota.

So that's why you're seeing J.D. Vance there on the ground in Minnesota. That's why you're hearing him kind of retract some of what he said. They do not want the story line to be the administration or ICE agents versus protesters. They don't want the story to be about tension. President Trump believes that the story should be about what the ICE agents are doing.

And I just want to be clear, because there's been a lot of conversation about why they're kind of toning down the rhetoric. This is not a change in their posture. We are told by senior White House officials, this is just a change in the way they are talking about immigration and this crackdown.

BROWN: All right. Kristen Holmes, live for us from the White House. I want to go out now to Sara Sidner.

Sara, you are at this ICE Out rally right now. What have you been hearing from demonstrators? I know it's very loud there.

SARA SIDNER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm having a hard time hearing you, but yes, there are 20,000 people expected to fill the Timberwolves stadium here at Target Center. They learned of this rally less than 24 hours ago. That is how many people responded and said that they wanted to come.

[16:05:03]

They are free tickets. All of them taken up, sold out. We are starting to see crowds come in and the message is very clear. If you look around you will see the signs, it is very clear what people want here and you see it there. Two words, "ICE Out". People are holding those signs. They are up on the big screens.

It says, we love our neighbors as trying to tell people, look, we are here. We're going to stand with you as the immigrant community they feel is under siege by ICE, who they are saying are creating complete chaos and doing things that are unconstitutional. That is how the folks in this stadium feel. We're also hearing that from some of the state and local leaders.

I talked to the mayor, for example, who believes this is all about Donald Trump doing retribution to this city, who has been standing with the immigrant population and standing against ICE. Now you have this issue that has been very, very polarizing, one that has brought people out, more people out after they saw what happened with this little five-year-old boy, Liam Ramos. People here saw him in his little backpack with an ICE agent behind him, masked agents taking his father, and they heard the stories that were being told by DHS, saying that they had to take the boy because they said the boy would have been abandoned, that the father tried to run away.

That is not what we're hearing at all from witnesses on the ground, including officials with the school that Liam and his brother attend.

Let me let you listen to what the superintendent told me. Who went on the scene to try to figure out if there was some way she could help. As Liam was being taken, his father being taken away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ZENA STENVIK, SUPERINTENDENT COLUMBIA HEIGHTS PUBLIC SCHOOLS: I entered the home and the mother was distraught. She wanted Liam, she wanted to open the door, and I can't even imagine, as a mother myself, how conflicted she must have been seeing. This is what she told me, seeing her husband standing in the driveway in handcuffs saying, don't open the door, and also hearing her little one. She looked up at me and said, I don't understand what's happening. We're not criminals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: So while DHS is saying that the mother didn't want the child, that is absolutely not what people on the ground heard. She was sobbing. She wanted her son. She was afraid that ICE was going to detain her, which is why she did not open the door.

It was partly because their seventh grader had not yet made it home from school. She was terrified that she and her husband would be taken away by ICE. The attorney for the husband, by the way, says he was going through the legal process. He was trying to get asylum. He had put in the paperwork.

There was a lot of frustration, and people here are frankly at what they're seeing in that case and many others. And of course, filled with sorrow over what happened with Renee Good -- Pam.

BROWN: All right, Sara, I want to bring in Priscilla -- Priscilla Alvarez now.

You have some reporting on what the latest is with this five-year-old little boy who is in detention.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Pamela. So as of now, the five-year-old and his father are both still in immigration detention in this facility in Texas. And that is a facility that is meant for families.

But as you heard there from Sara, this is yet again another incident that has happened in Minneapolis but is piled on many other incidents that have happened around the country where there are varying accounts as to what happened here on the ground. As we heard from the Department of Homeland Security, they say that they were targeting the father in this enforcement operation, and they had a different telling of events, including earlier today during a press conference from a senior ICE official.

Take a listen

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCOS CHARLES, ACTING EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OF ENFORCEMENT AND REMOVAL OPERATIONS, ICE: They get top notch care. They have medical care. The food is good. They have learning services.

They have church services available. They have recreation. They have special caregivers to see -- to see to the needs of the children and the mothers or families that are there. It's better -- honestly, it's better than social services.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALVAREZ: So that that we just heard there from a senior official was actually describing the facility where the five-year-old and the father are. He had also said prior to that similarly, that we've heard from DHS that the mother had refused to take custody of her son and that the father had abandoned the child when he ran away trying to evade arrest.

So, again, varying accounts to what has not been disputed is that they are at this facility awaiting the process here, which they had already been undergoing to try to get status in the United States.

BROWN: All right. Priscilla Alvarez, Sara Sidner, Kristen Holmes, thank you all.

And the panel is here in THE ARENA. CNN political analyst and national political reporter for "Axios", Alex Thompson, CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Elliot Williams. His new book, "Five Bullets: The Story of Bernie Goetz, New York's Explosive '80s and the Subway Vigilante Trial that Divided the Nation", is out now.

We are also joined by former Biden White House communications director and CNN political commentator Kate Bedingfield, and CNN senior political commentator Scott Jennings.

All star panel here.

I want to go to you first, Scott, on this new reporting that we just heard from our Kristen Holmes at the White House that President Trump is frustrated with the messaging around his immigration efforts and wants to change the narrative. How do you see it?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I'd be frustrated, too, if I were faced with this wall of propaganda every single day. And if I were faced with these recalcitrant Democrats in Minnesota who simply won't cooperate with the federal government. All over this country, states and cities all over the country, you have cooperation going on between the locals and the federal government. You don't see any chaos. You see very orderly transitions of illegal aliens into federal custody. They go into deportation.

It works just fine. The only difference in Minnesota is you have Walz and Frey and Flanagan and the rest of these local Democrats who don't want to cooperate. They think that Minnesota somehow should exist. And I guess some state of secession where federal laws don't apply to people inside the state of Minnesota.

It is causing chaos. And if I were the president, I would be frustrated about that too, because, you know, narratives aside, he's the chief law enforcement officer of the United States, and he has to enforce the law in all 50 states.

KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Can I -- can I just say trying to tell people that the images that they're seeing on camera is a wall of propaganda is not a winning strategy. People can see with their own eyes ICE --

JENNINGS: You're saying images are used for propaganda --

(CROSSTALK)

BEDINGFIELD: ICE engages -- we've all seen the footage of the ICE agent shooting the mother in the head two weeks ago. That is the backdrop behind which people are filtering in information.

JENNINGS: We saw her hit him with the car as well.

BEDINGFIELD: Actually -- actually, we did not.

JENNINGS: We did.

BEDINGFIELD: If you watched -- if you watched the video.

JENNINGS: We did see it.

BEDINGFIELD: But you also had --

JENNINGS: That's what I'm talking about. You can't even admit you hit him with the car.

BEDINGFIELD: Scott Jennings, will you let me finish my sentence? I'll let you finish yours.

You also had after that event, you had the vice president of the United States go out and fully embrace the actions of the ICE agent. So, I would argue if anybody is eroding the credibility of ICE, it's the Trump administration by throwing their arms around every single --

JENNINGS: Why won't they cooperate?

BEDINGFIELD: Every single errant and awful action that were seeing from these people. So again, I think, you know, for Trump to say that his message is being lost when he and his administration are encouraging ICE to behave in a way that is clearly outside of the existing rules of engagement, is absolutely ludicrous.

JENNINGS: Why won't they cooperate?

(CROSSTALK)

ALEX THOMPSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: From the Trump administration's perspective, he ran on the largest deportation action in American history. And that is what he is doing.

But in a sign of the politics may be changing. Democrats a year ago were completely on the defensive when it came to immigration. You are seeing that Democrats now feel very emboldened. You even have moderates like Rahm Emanuel saying that we need to end ICE as we know it. You have lots of moderate Democrats criticizing the actions of ICE in a way they weren't willing to do.

And I think the polls reflect that, that American voters, while they support, in theory, deportations, especially of criminals, they do not support the way that ICE is going about these actions right now.

BEDINGFIELD: The New York Times/Siena poll was 63 percent of people disapprove.

JENNINGS: Again, I just have to ask if the local Democrats in Minnesota would cooperate the way they do in virtually every other place in America, you would have orderly transitions of illegal aliens from jails into custody, and they won't do it. Why?

BEDINGFIELD: Simply not true. You have ICE going out. You have ICE going out, trying to pick up people who by all, by the accounts at least of his attorney, does not have a criminal record. This is outside of what Trump said he was going to do.

JENNINGS: He's in the country illegally.

BEDINGFIELD: He's not. If he came through, -- no, if he came through, if he came through and applied through the CBP One app for asylum, he is not in the country illegally. That is not how the law works.

JENNINGS: That's not how DHS see it.

BEDINGFIELD: So to have so to have ICE agents going out to try to pick up this man from his home that is overstepping both what Donald Trump said he was going to do with his immigration efforts, and also the law.

JENNINGS: But they're not cooperating even on the most violent people. You have the jails there, they're letting violent, illegal aliens back out into the community. That's why you have to have such a huge ICE presence. So they have to pick them up on the streets. That's why, as opposed to getting them in the jail.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: That's not -- that's not necessarily. I've been with ICE. I've gone out. And this was ten years ago. I went on a ride along with them and they went in the dark of night, and they did a targeted operation based on the intelligence to try to find different people who were here illegally, who had criminal records.

Every person we've spoken to who has worked at ICE. Republican or Democrat, has said what you're seeing in Minnesota is different for a couple of reasons, right? A much larger presence. They're doing sweeps rather than these targeted operations that are just focused on intelligence.

They're wearing masks. And I know they say they wear masks because they're worried they're going to be doxed.

[16:15:03]

They're worried for themselves. They're wearing riot gear. They're wearing what looks like military gear and all of that.

And, Elliot Williams, I'll let you speak to this, is different from what has happened in the past for these targeted operations.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yeah, there's a lot happening here. And I think, you know, to pick up on Alex's point. Yes, the president ran on running the largest deportation effort in history for with an agency that wasn't equipped to run the largest deportation effort in history.

So, by way of example, when I was at ICE, I was there for about five years. We were moving about 400,000 people a year. Right. Which is still historically high levels.

The president has called for, you know, you've heard about 3,000 people a day or a million people. By jumping that amount in this amount of time, you are necessarily inviting civil rights violations. People who are unfit for the jobs they have. And you're going to keep seeing images like this, one.

Two, with respect to the specific instance in Minnesota, you know, he doesn't have to have a criminal record to be removed from the country. Like the mere fact that he's not a criminal doesn't necessarily mean he can't be removed.

But, Kate, you are right. If he does have a pending asylum application, it's not quite fair to say that he's in the country unlawfully. Like he still has a form of status in the country that prevents his removal. And he did not have a removal order. Now that will all be hashed out.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: You know, that -- we're still trying to report that out. So I want to be clear with our audience like we are reporting.

WILLIAMS: So let me let me be lawyerly and clear. There is a factual basis.

JENNINGS: Those are -- those are -- those are contradictory, Elliot. You know what I mean.

WILLIAMS: There is a -- there is a factual dispute as to this individual status. Can we agree to that?

BEDINGFIELD: Yes, I agree.

WILLIAMS: I think we all can agree to that. Right? And so, I just think, you know.

BROWN: They're getting lumped -- I think what you're trying to say is it's getting lumped in. Yes. And the majority of Americans would say yes. I think the polls show this. We want people who are here illegally with criminal records, horrible convictions.

And we saw that at the press conference today. Pictures of some of them. We want them out of the country. If what is happening is how often are they being arrested versus someone like --

JENNINGS: Quite often, quite often.

BROWN: I'm just saying, compared to someone like the situation with Liam and his father.

THOMPSON: I mean, the Trump administration would argue and I think even some Democrats would concede, that the asylum system, as it was, was completely broken by the end of the Biden administration that there were many, many people that applied and filed for asylum, that, you know, as a path to get in the country, quote, unquote, "legally", as opposed in the past. They would just cross the border.

And the second thing to Elliot's point, though, about ramping up this agency, there are some Republicans privately quite queasy about the idea that this huge, you know, political promise is now in the hands of Kristi Noem and believe that maybe she is not the right person to lead this.

BROWN: Yeah. And the other difference, just to note, is the crowd control aspect of it. You haven't seen that before. ICE has not had to manage this kind of crowd. Like --

WILLIAMS: Yeah, it's -- look -- it's --

JENNINGS: People are being trained and groups are being funded to go out and insert themselves into the middle of law enforcement operations, and people are going to be in harm's way. It did tragically happen one time, and it should not happen again. That is absolutely true.

But at the end of the day, not a single person here can dispute the state of Minnesota, Minneapolis is not in a state of cooperation with the federal government on removing illegal aliens. In fact, they are in a state of opposition to it. In every other place where there's cooperation, there's very little ICE presence.

This happens administratively. There is no chaos. Cooperation would solve it, would it not?

BROWN: Just to be clear for our audience, because nuance is important. Gregory Bovino, the CBP commander, said today that the corrections officials in Minnesota, the state officials, are handing over criminals who are here illegally to ICE officials. It's the jurisdictions that differ and --

JENNINGS: Minneapolis.

BROWN: We do have to run. But go ahead.

WILLIAMS: Real, real, real quick. I mean, obviously, the idea of sanctuary jurisdictions and some places not helping the administration is nothing new. We dealt with it when I was there at ICE in a Democratic administration.

That said, you got to deal with those images of children, and that is a horrible political image for the administration to deal with, no matter what the mayor of Minneapolis is doing. BROWN: No coincidence there was a press conference today with ICE and

CBP officials after that.

Everyone, stand by. Coming up in THE ARENA, we're going to talk live with the attorney for Renee Good's family as the vice president says, there is a, quote, real investigation into her fatal shooting.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:23:47]

BROWN: Well, right now in Minneapolis, thousands of demonstrators are taking part in what organizers are calling, quote, "ICE out day". They are marching downtown to protest the surge in the presence of federal immigration agents in the state. Many of those activists also are calling for accountability in the death of Renee Good, who was shot by an ICE agent just over two weeks ago.

Joining us now in THE ARENA is the attorney for the Good family, Antonio Romanucci.

Thank you so much for coming on.

I just want to start by playing something that Vice President Vance said yesterday about the ICE agents involved in the shooting with Renee Good and their investigation.

Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDNET OF THE UNITED STATES: We don't want these guys to have kangaroo courts. We want them to actually have real due process, real investigation, because, again, sometimes they're accused of wrongdoing. And it turns out when you learn the context, they didn't actually do anything wrong. But, of course, we're going to investigate these things. Of course, were investigating the Renee Good shooting, but were investigating them in a way that respects people's rights.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Real investigation. What do you take this to mean?

ANTONIO ROMANUCCI, ATTORNEY FOR RENEE GOOD'S FAMILY: Well, we hope it's a real investigation. I think we've all seen what real investigations look like. And I think the number one factor is that it has to be unbiased. It has to truly be fair, meaning that all the facts are looked at, the totality of circumstances, and that there is due process.

But it has to be real. It just can't be spoken to. It can't be feigned.

BROWN: How will you assess whether it's credible and real? ROMANUCCI: Well, I think one way to do that is by what we are doing

actually for the Renee Good family, we're conducting our own civil investigation, and we're hoping that it is as thorough and complete, and we feel very confident that our aggressive investigation will actually reveal truth.

We want to be the voice of truth, the voice of reason. And so, let's start comparing. Let's see what their investigation shows and what our shows. And maybe even the state or the county, whoever will be investigating will be able to compare apples with apples.

BROWN: And what is your investigation shown so far?

ROMANUCCI: Well, you know, we came out with some findings just a couple days ago about an independent autopsy. And what we do know is that one of the gunshot -- there were three. Three clear gunshot wound paths to begin with. So, we know there were at least three bullets that were fired from the gun. A fourth one is yet to be determined because we don't have access to the car.

But two of them were non-life-threatening injuries. One was a life- threatening injury, and that was the one that struck Renee on the left side of the head. And it did exit the right side of her head. That gives us, without any conclusion yet, because we won't do that. But certainly, it lends itself to the belief that Ross shot her while he was at the side of her car, meaning that she was moving away from him and not towards him. And that's very significant.

BROWN: So, your firm released those autopsy reports. A firm said that the Hennepin County medical examiner's office autopsy has not been released to the family or the legal team yet.

You are very experienced attorney. Would you say that is normal or why do you think they have not done so?

ROMANUCCI: Well, you know, who knows? We don't know if they've completed their report. Is it going up for review?

But what I do know is this that after we released our findings, we did get a one pager from the Hennepin County medical examiner releasing at least the manner and cause of death. And that was a gunshot wound as a result of homicide. So we don't have the detailed report, but I would suspect -- I have a very high degree of confidence that our findings will be consistent with theirs. But it was extremely important for us to have our independent findings.

BROWN: Have you learned anything more about the injuries to the ICE officer involved in the shooting?

ROMANUCCI: We have not. We know what you know so far, Pam, and that's -- that it was that he suffered from internal bleeding, but we don't know if it was caused by, you know, Renee's car or by something else. But we don't know if it was merely a bruise or whether it involved anything more serious. We just don't know.

BROWN: Antonio Romanucci, thank you so much for coming on. ROMANUCCI: Thank you, Pam.

BROWN: Coming up in THE ARENA, why are there new tensions between social conservatives and the White House on the issue of abortion rights?

But first, what Donald Trump said that's prompting a direct response from Prince Harry.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We get along very well with NATO, I think. But I've always said, will they be there if we ever needed them? And that's really the ultimate test, and I'm not sure of that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:32:59]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We've never needed them. We have never really asked anything of them. You know, they'll say they sent some troops to Afghanistan or this or that. And they did. They stayed a little back, a little off the front lines.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: President Trump's newest comments on NATO are angering America's allies, especially after the alliances involvement on the battlefield in the war on terror after the 9/11 attacks. British Prime Minister Keir Starmer called Trump's remarks insulting and frankly appalling. Prince Harry who served two tours in Afghanistan, released a statement saying those sacrifices deserve to be spoken about truthfully and with respect, as we all remain united and loyal to the defense of diplomacy and peace.

Joining us now in THE ARENA to discuss is Democratic senator of Connecticut, Richard Blumenthal.

Nice to see you, Senator.

So, in your view, has President Trump caused irreparable damage to the NATO alliance?

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): Not irreparable, hopefully, but certainly damage. The ties are frayed. I've had the opportunity and the honor to talk to a number of European leaders over time about the relationship between the United States and NATO.

And let's be very clear, NATO is a bulwark against totalitarianism and aggression, particularly from Russia. And NATO has supported Ukraine in its fight against Putin's slaughterous invasion. And my hope is that we can continue our support for Ukraine, because it is vital to our national security. If Putin is permitted to conquer Ukraine, he will keep going against other nations in Europe.

And we have a stake in that fight legally and in terms of our own national security. So I hope we can repair the damage that has been done with leadership that respects the sovereignty and the interests of our allies.

[16:35:09]

We need friends like the European nations as we fight Putin's aggression against Ukraine.

BROWN: You talk about Putin. You had said recently that finally President Trump has realized that Putin has been playing him. But this week, as Russia continues to invade Ukraine, Trump invited Putin to join his Board of Peace. So how do you square your belief with Trump, realizing that with the fact that Putin was invited to be on this board?

BLUMENTHAL: There's simply no way to square this invitation to Putin with the kind of strength and I mean real strength that we need to show to gain peace in Ukraine. Putin is a thug. He's a criminal thug. He is responsible for the murders every night of Ukrainian civilians, women and children in their homes and hospitals and schools, as well as his attack on the grid in Ukraine, which is depriving Ukrainian people of light and heat, his invasion was unprovoked. But once again, Ukrainians are fighting not just for their freedom. Their fight is our fight as well, because we will need to put boots on the ground if Putin keeps going against Poland or Romania or Estonia. Other allies in NATO with whom we have a commitment under Article Five of the NATO treaty.

And so there's no way to square inviting Putin to be on this board of peace with a realistic and perceptive concept that he is the aggressor in Ukraine, and we need to push him back. And he has been playing President Trump. He's been mocking him, he says on one day that Zelenskyy can have peace. And on the other, clearly, he indicates that he's going to continue fighting.

And there's no way that Putin wants peace right now because he fails to respect the need for Ukraine's security.

BROWN: I want to ask you about something else before we let you go. We have this new reporting that President Trump is privately frustrated that he risks losing control of the immigration message and the Minnesota -- amid this Minnesota chaos. What do you think? Do you think he's already lost control of the immigration message?

BLUMENTHAL: Well, he's lost control of the immigration message. But more important, ICE is an agency out of control. The secret memo that I revealed provided to me by whistleblowers because I'm investigating ICE's police state tactics, shows that ICE believes that it can break down your door, ransack your house, arrest, or detain you without any judicial warrant. That's a violation of the Fourth Amendment. And what we're seeing in the streets, Americans are seeing it in real

time, whether it is the killing of Renee Good or the arrests of United States citizens wrongly, is a reason that he is losing the immigration message. Americans are repulsed. They find these practices abhorrent, morally and legally disgraceful, and supremely dangerous.

So, I think the American people have had it with ICE out of control. And that's the reason that Donald Trump is losing control of the message. And Americans ought to be very fearful, very afraid. I am very afraid.

I'm aghast and appalled by the secret memo that says, in effect ICE has no need to respect the Fourth Amendment of the United States constitution, which protects your privacy and your home from any ICE agent barging in without a judicial warrant.

BROWN : How -- how do you think ICE then should be reformed? And can you agree with their efforts to get criminals who are in the United States out, you know, out? I mean, in the United States, illegally out of the country, which is what a majority of Americans, based on polling, they do support that. So, can you support those ICE efforts?

BLUMENTHAL: Absolutely right. And great question.

[16:40:02]

I support border security. We need to make our borders secure against people simply coming into the country without authorization. We also need to deport dangerous criminals who are here illegally and that is the purpose of enforcement.

It should be done also legally because we have to respect the Fourth Amendment and judges will provide warrants when there is probable cause. When a prosecutor and I served as a federal prosecutor, United States attorney in Connecticut, I was attorney general of the state of Connecticut for 20 years. I know about enforcement. It has to be done in the way that the law prescribes respecting the rights of American citizens, not to be dragged from their homes or have their doors broken into without a judicial warrant.

It can be done with judicial oversight with respect for the law. And in the same way that state and local police obey those same rules. If there's a respect for the rule of law enforcement can be done effectively and aggressively, and it should be. Dangerous criminals here illegally ought to be deported.

BROWN: All right. Connecticut Senator Richard Blumenthal, thank you so much.

And now to the breaking news on the massive and historic winter storm that's expected to slam much of the United States. Let's get right to meteorologist Chris Warren and CNN correspondent Gabe Cohen.

Chris, what's the latest?

CHRIS WARREN, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It's starting, Pamela, we see that right now on the radar in Texas. The green is the rain. But with that cold air dropping down from the Arctic via Canada here all the way down to Texas, this is now a changeover. Seeing more of the rain, freezing before it hits the ground.

So, it's dropping through. It's falling through freezing air. It freezes and hits the ground. It will bounce. You can even hear it. Eventually, what's going to happen is the shallow layer of cold air will be just shallow enough. It won't be as deep.

The warmer air coming up. That rain is not going to freeze until it hits something. That's the dangerous conditions here with winter storm warnings posted from Texas all the way up to New England. Cold air coming in, making it that much worse after people lose power. And that is the anticipation.

After hours of freezing rain, this is during the afternoon now into the evening hours tomorrow. Many areas, Pamela, throughout parts of the mid-South into the Northeast will be picking up more than a foot of snow.

BROWN: Wow, that is a lot. We're all on watch.

Gabe, and you have some new reporting on how FEMA is preparing for this storm amid those DOGE cuts to the workforce.

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Pam. And we know the Trump administration and the Department of Homeland Security, they're really deep already into this overhaul of FEMA that we have seen over the past year or so.

But just this month, they've really ramped it up, and they have been terminating just about every FEMA disaster worker whose employment contract is expiring a roughly 300 or so staffers have been let go in January. It has sparked a lot of concern that it is hurting the agency's ability to respond to disasters, like the one were expecting this weekend.

But just yesterday, something changed, Pamela. Secretary Kristi Noem, she goes to FEMA headquarters, she gets briefed on the upcoming winter storm. And then in the afternoon, an email goes out across the agency letting staff know that the department has abruptly paused those terminations, telling them that they are going to stop offboarding all of these workers as their contracts are expiring, which seems to stop a lot of those layoffs, the dismissals that we have seen, at least for now.

Now, was it the optics of cutting staff during a storm? Was it the positions that have been lost in recent weeks? We don't exactly know, Pamela, but either way, it does seem like the administration is really concerned about this storm.

I've obtained this internal document just yesterday that talks a little bit about how FEMA is preparing. It says that the agency is on the ground and leaning forward, proactively supporting states in the path of this winter storm to ensure a rapid and well-coordinated response. The agency has activated their National Response Coordination Center. They've been deploying teams all over the country, along with generators, hundreds of thousands of meals and bottles of water.

But again, one of the concerns here, they've lost a lot of staff over the past year. How are they going to respond? We'll see in the coming days.

BROWN: We sure will. All right. Gabe Cohen, Chris Warren, thank you so much.

Up next, why the vice president is urging conservatives to be patient as leaders press the administration for further action related to abortion access. We'll be back.

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[16:49:21]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I must address an elephant in the room. A fear that some of you have, that not enough progress has been made. That not enough has happened in the political arena, that we're not going fast enough. And I want you to know that I hear you and that I understand.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Vice President J.D. Vance today urging people at the annual March for Life gathering to exercise patience at a time when anti- abortion rights advocates are growing increasingly frustrated with what they see as the White House's lack of urgency in cracking down on access to abortion pills, especially through the mail. Their anger reaching the halls of Congress, where even the president's closest allies are urging him to take action.

[16:50:05]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): We can simply fix this if we have the courage to do it. So, what are all of us telling the administration? Youve been a pro-life president, Mr. President. It's now time to deal with this issue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right. The panel is back here.

Let's kick it off with you, Scott. Do you think Vance speech did enough to address the concerns of anti-abortion activists?

JENNINGS: Well, I think him going and making the speech was critical. And the president also sent a message. And look, the vice president's right. Look back over the last 10 years, the pro-life cause has advanced dramatically in this country. Donald Trump's been the most pro-life president we've ever had across

the board. That's not in dispute. The judges alone speak to that.

But I will tell you, I was actually in Little Rock, Arkansas, last night with a bunch of pro-life activists. This issue of the pills being sent into states that have outlawed abortion, this is a huge issue. The attorney general down there is an old friend of mine named Tim Griffin. He, among other Republican A.G.s are trying to stop these companies from doing it. But this topic is absolutely on the minds of pro-life activists out there.

And so, the political advice for the Trump administration to engage in it, I think, is sound coming from the pro-life community.

BROWN: And on that note, I just want to read this from the director of legal affairs at SBA Pro-Life America, who told CNN, quote, "We're at a point where from a lot of the pro-life movements perspective, this is too important to play political games with. They could pull these drugs out of the mail tomorrow. The justification is more than there."

BEDINGFIELD: Well, but this is a politically complicated issue for Republicans because for the vast majority of voters, this position is very unpopular. I mean, if you'll remember, in 2022, the Dobbs decision was actually one of the catalysts, one of the reasons that Democrats had such a strong midterms that year, even when they were anticipated not to. For the most part, the Republican position and certainly the pro-life base of the Republican Party, the position is out of step with independent voters, with moderate voters, who we see are also for many other reasons, starting to sour on Donald Trump.

I mean, we looked at we saw the New York Times/Siena poll the other day that showed that a lot of the voters that he was able to peel off in 2024 have soured on him down to pre-2020 levels of dissatisfaction with him.

So, for Vance and the Republicans to make a decision to really try to lean in on this carries a lot of political risk for them.

THOMPSON: It used to be that the Democrats are the ones split on abortion, where you had many, you know, pro-abortion restriction Democrats and many with no restrictions at all. Now you're seeing that now Roe v. Wade has been turned, that Republicans are the ones that are having a lot, a lot of differences within their own party.

There are some Republicans that do not want the Trump administration to get involved for some of the political reasons that Kate mentioned, but also because they believe leave it to the states. We don't want the federal government involved in this issue at all.

WILLIAMS: And you could have predicted Trump was -- yeah.

BROWN : He doesn't want --

WILLIAMS: And you could have predicted those rifts only on a count of the fact that Dobbs, the decision ultimately was the dog that caught the bus. For many people in the abortion anti-abortion movement, it was just the thing that Roe v. Wade was, the thing that was being chased for half a century or however long for multiple generations. And then what to do on the day after. Dobbs, I think, has just created the kinds of political issues that Kate's talking about.

THOMPSON: And it puts Vance in an interesting position, because Vance obviously wants to keep the MAGA base, the Republican base, on his side ahead of 2028. I imagine that's part of the reason why he was at that speech, even though that may be alienating to some moderate voters who have not forgotten the childless cat lady comment.

WILLIAMS: And I would also note in the text thread, our friend Xochitl Hinojosa notes, and I want to be clear, the Supreme Court does not and should not rely on public opinion. But the Dobbs opinion is not popular. It does not poll all that well, regardless of the fact that that is the law -- settled law in the country right now. And that's just something that all politicians are going to have to grapple with.

BROWN: Yeah. And even -- you're talking about the divide. Laura Loomer is even blasting J.D. Vance on Twitter for focusing on abortion by pointing to Republican losses in the 2018 midterms, like you're saying. I mean, it is causing a big divide.

JENNINGS: Well, look, the Republicans are a pro-life party. I mean, just -- we're a pro-life party. The Democrats are uniformly a pro- abortion party, and even the so-called moderate Democrats are, you know, all in for unlimited abortion.

And so, I mean, this is a real divide. This is not a surprise to anyone. When we run the '28 presidential election, the Republican nominee, highly likely to be J.D. Vance, will be pro-life. The Democratic nominee. However, that mess sorts itself out is going to have run the most pro-abortion primary campaign that you could possibly imagine.

That line is not going to change anytime soon. And you know you're going to -- and the pro-life activists, I can just tell you they're not going anywhere. They believe in their cause. They believe in the inherent worth of every human life. And they're not going to give up on that anytime soon.

THOMPSON: Well, what pro-life means does not mean is not uniform. You can use that label. But there are some Republicans that still want a constitutional amendment, for instance, to outlaw all abortion and all 50 states. They want the federal government to at least put a nationwide 20-week abortion ban across all 50 states.

[16:55:05]

So this issue is not really settled of what pro-life means.

BROWN: All right. We'll be right back. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Thanks to my panel. You can watch more of THE ARENA tomorrow. THE ARENA Saturday airs at noon Eastern right here on CNN. Be sure to join us.

Jake Tapper, my friend and colleague, is standing by for THE LEAD.