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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt

Minneapolis On Edge As Homan Arrives & Meets Walz, Frey; Trump: "Going To Be Watching Over" Probe Of Alex Pretti Shooting; New Video Show Chaotic Moments Before & After Alex Pretti Shooting. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired January 27, 2026 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:06]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Fred Pleitgen, thank you for that report.

And THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now.

(MUSIC)

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. Its wonderful to have you with us on this Tuesday.

As we come on the air, the situation on the ground in Minneapolis appears to be changing. After weeks of protests and outrage over the fatal shootings of two American citizens by federal agents, President Donald Trump seems to be shifting. We're seeing it in his tone, but also in his tactics.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, you know, we're doing a big investigation. I want to see the investigation. I'm going to be watching over it. I want to very honorable and honest investigation. I have to see it myself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: President Trump this morning vowing personal oversight of the investigation into the fatal shooting of 37-year-old ICU nurse Alex Pretti by federal agents.

We at CNN have new video that shows the minutes leading up to the killing. Let's take a look. In it, you can see an agent confronting and pushing Pretti, who is holding a cell phone.

At no point in this video does Pretti appear to brandish the firearm that he was legally carrying. Roughly two minutes after these moments, federal agents would open fire. A warning once again that this footage is disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is police brutality. They are hitting that observer. They are kicking them in the face. (GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What? What?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So, right now, the White House border czar, Tom Homan, is on the ground in Minnesota. He's already held separate meetings with Governor Tim Walz and with Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey. Walz's office saying that he and Homan, quote, "agreed on the need for an ongoing dialogue," end quote.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. TIM WALZ (D), MINNESOTOA: The atrocities we're seeing and I -- look, I think Donald Trump understands it, too, that horrific scene that played out on Saturday morning, you could tell there was no professionalism to that. You could tell that this seemed personal for some reason, that running across and pushing people and then I hope that we finally maybe broke the fever. The explanation from Kristi Noem was so far off that I think maybe this is what broke it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right. Let's get off the sidelines, head into THE ARENA.

My panel is here. We're going to get started with CNN's Whitney Wild. She's in Minneapolis, and Kristen Holmes, who is at the White House for us.

And, Kristen, I first want to go to you just to talk through what we're learning about the conversations that Tom Homan has having with the mayor and the governor.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Kasie. And we actually just heard from President Trump as well. And I'll get there in one second. He's down on the ground in Iowa and answered questions about what was happening in Minneapolis. But one of the things I want to note, you've heard nothing but really positivity. If you look at what we had been hearing in terms of what White House officials and what these local officials on the ground in Minnesota are saying about the interactions that Trump has had with both Walz and Frey, as well as the interactions that Homan has had.

We have heard from numerous officials that these were productive conversations, and this is really part of why Homan was sent there. When you talk to Republicans who know Homan, who know his background in law enforcement, who know the thinking behind his version of what this immigration crackdown looks like, they believe that he was the one who could actually turn down the temperature, that he would actually be able to work with these officials in the state of Minnesota and still keep at least some ICE agents and some version of this immigration agenda on the ground and happening to essentially keep both sides somewhat happy here.

Now, we did hear from President Trump, who was asked specifically about this changing of the guard that he had in Minnesota. Bovino is out. Kristi Noem is focusing on other things, and Homan is in.

Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Mr. President, why did you decide to shake up your leadership team in Minnesota and send Tom Homan?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I do that all the time. I shake up teams. Everybody here, these are a lot of owners of farms and places, and you shake up your team, if they can't do the crops fast enough.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: So, you hear him there just saying essentially this is a shakeup of his team. But we also know that President Trump was agitated watching the coverage, specifically watching Secretary Noem and Bovino go up there, and what he believed was make the administration look bad and their talking points around the events that unfolded, the shooting of Alex Pretti, particularly noting that some of the things that they were saying just didn't match up with the video.

But I will note one thing here, Kasie, you know, we know that Noem was here meeting with President Trump for two hours yesterday at the White House. She had called the meeting.

And one thing I will tell you from sources that I've spoken to, Noem asked the White House, or at least was in communication with the White House, over what she was going to say, the language she was going to use. So, the fact that President Trump is frustrated, she was not operating in a vacuum, she was operating at behest of this White House.

HUNT: Really interesting.

So, Whitney Wild, obviously, we've now walked through the ways in which the administration is attempting to change tack, where you are. Are you actually feeling that on the ground? What are you hearing from people in Minnesota?

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, they are very relieved that Commander Greg Bovino is leaving. He was obviously highly controversial. The -- he really elicited this very clear, palpable, angry reaction from protesters here. What we and which really ramped up in the aftermath of the shooting death of Renee Good and went on for several days.

So, now, clearly the administration thinking that things will cool off if they send Tom Homan here, this is someone who, you know, as we have reported, is a longtime ICE agent, longtime law enforcement official. He's highly respected within DHS. And so, the hope here certainly is that things will calm down.

But the people I'm speaking with here on the ground are really skeptical of that. They want ICE gone completely. They say they've had enough, nothing that they have seen so far gives them any confidence that even with Commander Bovino gone, that things will calm down here and that they should have faith in what ICE is doing.

Here's more from one woman I spoke with at Alex Pretti's memorial.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, I think it relieves a lot of stress. I think it helps. I just kind of a weight off our shoulders. But obviously, we were the testing ground I believe, you know, what they could get away with, you know? And I mean, having that march on Friday and then having this on Saturday and we still rise up.

(END VIDEO CLP)

WILD: Ultimately, Kasie, what many people told me is that they're hopeful, but they're skeptical. And as I said before, if the past is prologue here, they're very concerned that things will not change in a meaningful way -- Kasie.

HUNT: All right, Whitney Wild for us on the ground. Kristen Holmes at the White House, thank you both very much for starting us off today.

My panel is here in THE ARENA. CNN political analyst, national political reporter for "Axios", Alex Thompson; CNN contributor, "New York Times" journalist Lulu Garcia-Navarro; the former communications director at the DNC, Mo Elleithee; and CNN's senior political commentator Scott Jennings.

Welcome to all of you. Thank you very much for being here.

Alex Thompson, it is pretty clear here from a big picture perspective, if you look at what Matt Drudge has got up on his website, you know, he's put it in stark terms, Trump in retreat, he says. This is a president who doesn't like to be seen changing course in public, but one who is. Why?

ALEX THOMPSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It's not just Trump in retreat. The entire Republican Party in retreat. It's why you had such a visceral reaction on Capitol Hill, calls for hearings, calls for, you know, to bring Kristi Noem, Bovino -- Mr. Bovino to Capitol Hill, both on the House and the Senate side.

For the first time in a long time, Republicans do not feel that immigration is a winning issue right now, and it's in part because they feel that the Trump administration now has mishandled the argument, has mishandled the implementation of it. There were serious private concerns that Kristi Noem was not the right person to lead DHS from the very beginning, and that is part of the reason why you've seen such a swift reaction after this event.

HUNT: So you mentioned that Republicans have been part of this, and here was what "The Wall Street Journal" reported about anxious Republicans, as they say. They say the president fielded a number of calls from anxious Republicans, including Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, who delivered a message that Trump was already starting to internalize the White House needed to find a way to pivot the narrative away from the shootings. Graham told the president that the grisly visuals on TV needed to be changed, saying they were overshadowing the success of other aspects of his immigration agenda, according to a person familiar with the call.

Now, clearly who that that person familiar, Scott Jennings, knows how to talk to the president, right, praising the president for other aspects of his immigration agenda, but saying, hey, we've gone too far here. Is Kristi Noem still serving President Trump, in your view?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, she's still in her job and she serves at the pleasure of the president. And so that will be up to him to decide. I mean, obviously, he has dispatched Tom Homan to Minneapolis to take control of the situation.

Everybody respects Homan. Barack Obama gave him a medal for being good at deporting people and enforcing our nation's immigration laws.

HUNT: And he's -- he's reporting right directly to the president, which cuts Kristi Noem out of it.

JENNINGS: He deport -- he reports to the president. Now, the president does have other emissaries in other areas of the government that do things and fit in. Steve Witkoff is a good example. He's an emissary that reports to the president, but he also works with the secretary of state, Marco Rubio. So we'll have to see how Homan's position develops.

But you see, sending home in there tells you that Donald Trump wants to have somebody on the ground that's reporting directly to him and see what changes can be made. Now, my understanding is, is that the White House position, even though they may be looking at the optics and the messaging, really hasn't changed as it relates to what they want out of Minneapolis.

What they want is cooperation. They want to get in to the city and county jails. They want Minneapolis and Minnesota to turn over all of the illegal aliens in the jails over to them. That's what they want.

Homan met with Walz this morning, and then he met with Frey. My understanding is Frey has already said even after this meeting, we will not cooperate. So, if they end up at an impasse on getting cooperation from the people in Minnesota, that then leads the president to his next decision point. What do we do now?

My advice is you can't let the -- you can't let an angry mob win. You can't let an angry mob determine that certain federal laws are nullified because we say so. If they do that, it will be open season in a lot --

HUNT: So, federal laws being nullified. I want to show a little bit of what the president had to say, as he was landing in Iowa. He's there to give an economic speech, but he was talking here about the fact that Alex Pretti was carrying legally a firearm. Let's watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Do you agree with the assessment from some of your own officials that Alex Pretti is a domestic terrorist or an assassin?

TRUMP: Well, I haven't heard that, but certainly he shouldn't have been carrying a gun. But all of -- hey, look. Bottom line, everybody in this room, we view that as a very unfortunate incident. Okay, everyone, unless you're a stupid person. Very, very unfortunate incident.

I don't like that he had a gun. I don't like that. He had two fully loaded magazines. That's a lot of bad stuff. And despite that, I say that's a very unfortunate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: I don't like that he has a gun, says the president. That seems to contradict the Constitution, which says that Americans have a right to keep and bear arms.

JENNINGS: They do. And he certainly did.

Now, I think in an investigation it should be asked whether Pretti was carrying his gun in accordance with Minnesota laws, for instance, did he have his ID with him? I also think it should be part of an investigation about how this man came to apparently be in a scuffle with federal law enforcement not once, but twice in the same week. I'd like to know the answer to that question.

HUNT: Again, but does that warrant somebody being shot is the point. I mean, the president's tone, I mean, even the president seems to be acknowledging that most people that are watching this video are having this. I mean, the president has dramatically changed his tone.

JENNINGS: He -- this morning said he wants a full, thorough investigation. He said it on the South Lawn of the White House. I think he's right about that.

THOMPSON: I would just really one thing about that clip you said is he hadn't heard that he was labeled a domestic terrorism. He clearly was not paying attention to the twitter feed of both Stephen Miller, to the conference that his DHS secretary, Kristi Noem had. And also --

HUNT: Let's play that. Let's play the piece of the press conference Alex is talking about that. The president says he didn't see. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTI NOEM, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: You perpetuate violence against a government because of ideological reasons and for reasons to resist and perpetuate violence. That is the definition of domestic terrorism. This individual who came with weapons and ammunition to stop a law enforcement operation of federal law enforcement officers, committed an act of domestic terrorism. That's the facts.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HUNT: And of course, Stephen Miller posted on X, "an assassin," quote/unquote, tried to murder federal agents.

THOMPSON: And Vice President J.D. Vance retweeted that.

HUNT: I mean, it's hard to argue that, you know, you didn't see it when it's your own team that's doing it.

Mo Elleithee -- I mean, Republicans have had an advantage on this issue, right? To the point that Lindsey Graham was trying to make in the phone call. This was immigration was something that Americans historically have trusted. Republicans, at least in recent years, trusted Republicans more than Democrats has that trust been broken?

MO ELLEITHEE, FORMER DNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Absolutely. And you see it, in polling, right. You see, for the first time, the president immigration has always been one of his strong suits in polling. He is now underwater by double digits. You see it in polling that Americans are at a majority now or near majority calling for the abolition of ICE, not just the reform, but the abolition. That's a stark --

HUNT: With the polling is showing a majority of Americans --

ELLEITHEE: Close to majority. The latest poll I saw this morning or yesterday showed it was near 50 percent of people saying that they were open to that.

So, you're seeing a dramatic shift in public opinion, not just in polling, but you're seeing it in the streets. You are seeing people stand up and say, enough is enough. Republicans support or opposition to this policy has doubled in the last -- in the last few weeks.

[16:15:07]

So I think this president and the actions today I think are a recognition of it, maybe listening to Lindsey Graham when Lindsey Graham tells him, we've gone too far. We've jumped the shark on this. It's not just a messaging problem. It's a policy that is resulting in violence. It is resulting in the death of American citizens and people aren't standing for it.

HUNT: The president, or rather, I should say, his Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem, has lost "The New York Post", which is, of course, a Murdoch paper, Lulu Garcia-Navarro. Interesting in that this also potentially does give them a fall person, right, for what's happened in Minneapolis here.

And there already seems to be infighting inside the administration. There's an "Axios" headline. We're still reporting it out, but where the word "massacre" came from. Was it Stephen Miller? I wonder who's telling "Axios" that Stephen Miller used that word when they're all kind of arguing over, you know, blame, not blame from the president of the United States, who's clearly unhappy about what's going on.

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think that we talk about this right now in terms of the political ramifications, but this is actually a moral issue. And I think that's the way the American people are viewing it right now. They saw what happened on the street. And they saw this administration lie about it, not once, not twice, but repeatedly.

And the more information that comes out, the more those lies are apparent. And so what I hear many Americans asking themselves is if the government has the authority to kill someone in the way -- in the manner in which he was killed, and then slander that person, then that could happen to me, too.

And so, I don't think this is something that can be spun away. I don't think this is something that can be sort of dismissed. And I don't think it's something that crisis management communications is going to resolve.

HUNT: All right. Coming up next, here in THE ARENA, we are live with Democratic Congressman Jake Auchincloss as House leaders in his party give President Trump a significant ultimatum today over Kristi Noem.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY), MINORITY LEADER: Wholly unqualified. She never should have been confirmed to begin with by Senate Republicans and House Democrats have called for her to be fired immediately. And in the event that she is not terminated, we are prepared to initiate impeachment proceedings against her in the House of Representatives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:21:58]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFFREIS: Kristi Noem is a despicable, corrupt, pathological liar. And house Democrats have called for her to be fired immediately. And in the event that she is not terminated, we are prepared to initiate impeachment proceedings against her in the House of Representatives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: On Capitol Hill today, Democratic leaders trying to give President Trump an ultimatum. Fire Homeland Security Secretary Kristi or we'll impeach her.

An impeachment resolution filed in the house earlier this month now gathering more signatures. All of this as the possibility of a partial government shutdown over DHS funding is looming later this week.

Joining us now, Democratic congressman from Massachusetts, Jake Auchincloss.

Congressman, thanks very much for being here. Is this the right move for your leaders right now to call for the impeachment of Kristi Noem? REP. JAKE AUCHINCLOSS (D-MA): Yes, Kasie. The fish rots from the head

and ICE is a rotten agency with rotten leadership. Need to clean house.

And last year, Republicans, under the direction of Donald Trump, gave ICE $75 billion. That tripled its budget, gave it more money than every other federal law enforcement agency combined. That means more money is being spent on immigration detention right now than is being spent on crime, drugs, guns, corruption, counterterrorism combined.

What is ICE done with that money? Well, they've harassed immigrants. They've sown fear in our communities. They've killed American citizens, and they have detained basically none of the 29,000 individuals who are unauthorized and have a conviction for either murder or rape.

So, ICE is a broken agency. It has no trust with the American public, and there needs to be accountability at the top.

HUNT: Does that mean that you think that ICE should be abolished?

AUCHINCLOSS: We need root reform of ICE. Maybe that means replacing it, but those functions of interior immigration enforcement do need to exist. And unfortunately, the American public has been given a false choice over the last five years. They see the first year of the Biden administration. And many Americans think, well, that means open borders. They see the first year of the Trump administration, and many Americans think that looks like a presidential paramilitary, where, as Lulu said, an individual can be shot and then slandered by their own government.

That is a false choice that should not exist. This is a moral imperative for Democrats to reclaim the mantle of common sense immigration reform that says, of course, we need border security. Of course, we need a lawful and orderly process for individuals to come to this country.

But legal immigration is a source of our vitality as a country. It enriches us economically and culturally. We are a nation of immigrants, and we can have both the rule of law and a nation of immigrants.

HUNT: Congressman, one issue that has come up in Minneapolis is whether or not the state and local governments are cooperating with federal agents who want to detain undocumented immigrants that are otherwise picked up or encountered by state officials.

[16:25:13]

As a general matter, do you think state and local governments should cooperate with ICE and other federal authorities like ICE?

AUCHINCLOSS: I think Barack Obama basically got this right, which was to say, if there is an individual who has been detained in a state or local prison because they have committed a crime, a threat to public safety and immigration authorities go to that jail and take that individual and also simultaneously process them for violations of immigration law. That is an appropriate intersection between federal and state law.

What is not an appropriate intersection as Mayor Mike Johnson in Denver has put so beautifully, is for a state trooper to pull you over for speeding and then ask for your documentation because the two just don't relate to one another. And I think Democrats got this right 15 years ago, and we can get this right again.

HUNT: Congressman, one other question, of course, is Tom Homan's role in Minnesota. Are you confident in his ability to de-escalate the situation in a way that ultimately will satisfy critics of this ICE operation? Or do you not?

AUCHINCLOSS: No, he is carrying water for the president and for Stephen Miller? I think what we need to de-escalate the situation is for Republicans in Congress to move to where the center of the country is on this issue, ban masking require use of force and body cam standards, disband this paramilitary that has mushroomed over the last year with poor recruiting and training standards and the detention or deportation of U.S. citizens and reprioritize back to border security and to processing criminals.

Republicans in Congress need to do that, not continue to duck and cover under this administrations, political attitude.

HUNT: Would you say that the private conversations among Republican colleagues, to the extent that you have them, go farther than what we're hearing from them in public in terms of how bad they think this incident was?

AUCHINCLOSS: Kasie, I think you get a sense of that from the rhetoric you hear from retiring Republicans in Congress. It's amazing what a elixir of courage retirement can be for many of my colleagues when they decide to leave Congress, they all of a sudden speak their mind. You should just assume that whatever you hear publicly from members of Congress who are imminently retiring is what I'm hearing privately from many others.

HUNT: Fair enough. And then one other question I had for you, as someone who has a military background, right, who understands the way having a firearm can change the calculus for law enforcement or others. The president said he didn't like that Alex Pretti had a gun. The gun was, of course, legally carried.

Do you think that Americans should -- would be advised to carry a gun into a protest or a situation like the one that Alex Pretti was in?

AUCHINCLOSS: The president angering the National Rifle Association was not on my bingo card for his first year in office. I think that this administration has attacked the Bill of Rights across the board. And while I have profound disagreements with the NRA and the Gun Owners Association about what the meaning of the Second Amendment actually is and how to actually apply the term well-regulated militia to modern day weaponry, I generally agree that the answer to brutality from federal law enforcement is not for Americans to sacrifice our individual rights. It's for us to hold our government accountable. And that starts with Republicans in Congress.

HUNT: All right. Massachusetts Congressman Jake Auchincloss, thanks very much for your time today, sir. Appreciate it.

AUCHINCLOSS: Good evening.

HUNT: All right. Coming up next, new reporting on federal officials collecting personal information on protesters in Minneapolis and a previously unknown encounter that Alex Pretti had with officers before his fatal shooting.

Plus, the Republican reckoning how the White House is racing to contain the political fallout of the Minneapolis shootings within the president's own party.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. CARLOS GIMENEZ (R-FL): There has to be a better way to do this, and it's something that I've expressed to the administration. We should be going after these folks one at a time. I just -- I'm not comfortable with what's happening in Minneapolis at this time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:34:13]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMES COMER (R-KY): If I were President Trump, I would almost think about, okay, if the mayor and the governor are going to put our ICE officials in harm's way and there's a chance of losing more, you know, innocent lives or whatever, then maybe go to another city and let the people of Minneapolis decide, do we want to continue to have all of these illegals?

GOV. GREG ABBOTT (R), TEXAS: They, being the White House, need to recalibrate on what needs to be done.

GIMENEZ: I'm not comfortable with what's happening in Minneapolis at this time. It's hurting our chances at the midterms. And I'm just being frank about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Republicans from across the country, including some of the president's closest allies, now openly questioning President Trump's immigration strategy after two fatal shootings in Minneapolis, with some saying he risks losing credibility on the issue.

[16:35:00]

In the Senate, at least a dozen Republicans have called for an investigation into the shooting of Alex Pretti and lawmakers in the House and Senate are preparing for administration officials to testify in the coming weeks.

The House Speaker, Mike Johnson, is still yet to comment on any of this, but we did just hear moments ago from President Trump. Let's listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We have tom Homan there now. We put him in there. He's great. And they met with the governor, the mayor, everybody else. And we'll -- we're going to deescalate a little bit. But I will tell you, you look at the numbers, they're doing better than they've done in many years because we took thousands of criminals out of Minnesota.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: My panel is back.

I mean, Alex Thompson, President Trump saying the quote is, were going to deescalate a little bit.

THOMPSON: Well, it's notable, a lot of those names that you showed that have been critical are also people that are openly contemplating running for president in 2020 and potentially challenging J.D. Vance. Senator Ted Cruz basically said it is not, you know, it is not believable when you call a mother of three a domestic terrorist. You have Senator Rand Paul is basically going to be very -- is going to try to grill Kristi Noem and have been openly critical of sort of having these masked agents doing it.

And that's also why you are seeing Donald Trump in a way that is not. I think you mentioned earlier in the show for him to sort of reverse course on this when his default is to double down is really striking.

HUNT: Yeah. Lulu?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yeah. I mean, one of the things that I think Donald Trump is very good at is trying to snatch a win out of something that is very, very bad for him. And he is trying to now play the statesman, right? He's separating himself from a lot of the controversial statements of his deputies, saying that he didn't know about it, that he had no idea what had happened, and that he is actually going to be, you know, playing a conciliator.

And we'll see if that actually means something on the ground. There is a lot of suspicion in Minneapolis that this is just window dressing. And it remains to be seen how this all gets worked out.

HUNT: Scott Jennings, those comments there from Greg Abbott of Texas, not nothing.

JENNINGS: Yeah. Look, I don't know what -- I mean, some of these are general, and I don't know what exactly what they mean by it. I'd be curious to know what they would have the president do. He's in a little bit of a strange situation here, because --

HUNT: Would you have him not do what he just said he's going to do, which is deescalate a little bit?

JENNINGS: I don't know what that means either. I mean, what's a little bit mean? I don't -- I don't know what that means. I mean, I would just caution all these people, you cannot let an angry mob nullify federal law in a jurisdiction if they do that.

(CROSSTALK)

GARCIA-NAVARRO: You mean the American people? Is that what the angry mob is? The American people.

JENNINGS: These people in Minneapolis are an angry mob, whether you like it or not. They don't like the fact that the president is enforcing longstanding federal immigration law.

HUNT: Does that mean they should be shot on the streets, Scott?

JENNINGS: That's -- no.

HUNT: That's the question that we're talking about, right?

JENNINGS: The debate -- the debate is about what the presidents going to do next. And if you were to let them win and you were to be run out of town, what do you think would happen in L.A., Chicago, New York, all over the country?

HUNT: So, you think what happened to Alex Pretti is problematic? I mean --

JENNINGS: Do I think it's problematic? Of course, it's problematic.

HUNT: Is it wrong?

JENNINGS: Anytime someone dies --

HUNT: How far are you willing to go?

JENNINGS: Anytime someone dies, it's problematic. But what they're asking for --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Is it wrong?

JENNINGS: -- is for -- is for federal law enforcement to be sent out of town.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Is it wrong?

JENNINGS: And that no federal laws be enforced.

HUNT: Was what happened to Alex Pretti on the street wrong?

JENNINGS: Was it wrong?

HUNT: Was it wrong?

JENNINGS: I'm waiting for an investigation, which I fully support. I don't know what the circumstances were. I don't like seeing it.

HUNT: If there's a Democratic president in the White House, would you be able to say it was wrong?

JENNINGS: I want an investigation. Would I want an -- of course I would. I don't like that people have died. I don't like this chaos. But I also don't like the idea that we're just going to say, well, in this one little territory, were not going to enforce federal laws anymore. That doesn't strike me as a good idea for the president right now.

So he's in a -- he's got a tricky situation. It's very complex. But being run out of town by an angry mob to me is not an option.

HUNT: Mo?

ELLEITHEE: When both of these killings happened, there was no rush to an investigation. You had the administration at the highest level render their verdict, blaming the victims. And to Lulu's point, earlier, a lot of Americans said, well, if that's going to be how this plays out, then what's to stop it from being me? That's what people are so angry about.

They are angry, not that the president is enforcing his immigration goals, that the -- that ICE is doing it in a way that is indiscriminate, that has led to violence, that, you know, you talked earlier about whether or not local officials are cooperating. It's this administration that is getting cited for contempt of court for not honoring court orders. It's this administration that is icing out the local officials when it comes to the investigations of these shootings.

[16:40:01]

So I think that's what people are angry about. I'm angry about it. I don't think I'm part of a mob. I'm angry when I see my government not being accountable when it is violating virtually every -- violating the Constitution, in many of these cases, when it comes to due process, when it comes to search and seizure issues. That's not what -- even his biggest supporters voted for. And that's why you're seeing a cratering in in public support.

HUNT: Yeah. Go ahead.

THOMPSON: Another striking thing beyond conservative lawmakers has been conservative medias reaction, especially over the last day you saw Sean Hannity go out there and say, and conservative media, to be clear, was honestly sort of egging on ICE and being very defensive of them for the most. This year, you saw people like Sean Hannity, Jesse Watters, "Wall Street Journal", "The New York Post" all basically called for Trump to de-escalate.

HUNT: Well, in another instance where we have exactly what Alex is talking about, here was what Sean Hannity had to say about ICE. Watch.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP) SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: Now, is ICE perfect? They're not. Can they do a better job? They can.

Do I think that, you know, some of the optics at times -- do I think that going into Home Depots and arresting people there is a good idea? I don't. I don't think the people that -- if you're working at a place, you're not, the immediate problem.

Eventually, we'll have to deal with those people that didn't respect our laws, borders and sovereignty, there's got to be a program where people get to come forward. I think they should then be given transportation home. They can get a check for, what, $2,000 and they can apply to come back in the country legally.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

HUNT: Scott Jennings, even Sean Hannity thinks this has all gone too far.

JENNINGS: Well, most of the people who have been deported or have left the country have done so voluntarily, and many of them have gotten a check just the way he is describing, I think a little over 2 million of self-deported, and only 600 and some thousand have gone out.

HUNT: Okay, so then why do we need these people on the street doing what they're doing in Minneapolis?

JENNINGS: Because they can't get them in the jails in virtually every other place in America, you have cooperation. You go into the jail, you get an administrative transfer. It takes virtually no people to do that.

In Minneapolis, they won't let them in the jails, and they won't let the local police engage if they're under attack as federal law enforcement. So, you have to send extra agents to guard the agents --

(CROSSTALK)

HUNT: -- Pretti like that.

JENNINGS: I'm sorry?

HUNT: You think that because there's a policy like that in the jail in Minneapolis, that the agents that did what they did to Alex Pretti were justified? That's the connection that you're making.

JENNINGS: I did not say that. But I'm telling you that there should be a full investigation, which is exactly what the president said. Also --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: A full investigation along an independent investigation, along with local. Do you know what that means? It means that --

JENNINGS: Who's going to do it? Who do you want to do it? GARCIA-NAVARRO : Well, shouldn't it be something as it has always been

done that is either joint that it is local law enforcement, which by the way, again was not led on to the scene after he was killed. You know, they absolutely refused to allow the local police force, which are the ones who are supposed to, in any crime scene, sort of secure the location. They weren't even allowed anywhere near it.

So how can anyone trust at this point that there is going to be an independent investigation, that people can have faith in if you do not involve the state and local authorities in that investigation.

JENNINGS: So, you don't trust the federal government?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I'm not saying I don't trust. I'm saying -- I'm saying that there is a lack of trust. I'm saying there is a lack of trust.

JENNINGS: A Republican --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Full -- Scott, is there not a lack of trust? Is there not a lack of trust right now in -- after you've seen this administration --

JENNINGS: A Republican --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: -- lie in the way that it has?

JENNINGS: How can I trust an investigation run by Walz and Frey, who after every time something happens, investigation rush to call it a murder? They've already prejudged it.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: It's a question of having a joint investigation. I don't understand why.

JENNINGS: If the feds want to do that, I don't have a problem with that. And the president this morning, we seem to be glossing over this said he wants a full, fair investigation of what happened to Pretti.

HUNT: Right. Well, now he does this, of course, after his secretary of homeland security called him an assassin, among other things.

And you know what? The lack of mutual trust that any of us are now able to have in any of our institutions, whether they be law enforcement, whether they be the administration of our elections, is the challenge that we are all -- it's the challenge of our time. And as you can see at this table, it is a very difficult one to untangle.

Ahead here in THE ARENA, the very prominent, very recognizable, very not Democratic politician who has some thoughts on the right to keep and bear arms.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: You can't have guns. You can't walk in with guns. You just can't.

(END VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:49:12]

HUNT: All right. New details just into CNN sources telling our team that federal immigration officers have been collecting personal information about some protesters in Minneapolis and had details on Alex Pretti before he was shot and killed on Saturday.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez has been across this story. We're also joined by CNN's Josh Campbell.

But, Priscilla, let me start with you. What more do we know about the information that's being collected and how Alex Pretti first came to be on the radar of the federal government in this situation?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kasie, let me start with your second question. And this earlier incident that we are learning about from sources. Me and my colleague Jeff Winter, in that earlier incident, that was a week prior to the fatal shooting this past Saturday in Minneapolis. Alex Pretti had stopped his car when he saw ICE agents chasing what he described as a family to one of the sources, and began shouting and blowing his whistle.

[16:50:05]

Now, over the course of this encounter, five agents tackled him and one of them leaned on his back and left him with a broken rib. According to the source, who had spoken to Pretti, he said the source said, quote, that day he thought he was going to die. Now CNN has also reviewed records that show that Pretti was later given medication consistent with a broken rib.

Now, we don't know if it is this incident that was on the radar that put Alex Pretti on the radar for federal law enforcement, but we do know there has been a collection of protesters and agitators within the context of the Department of Homeland Security's repeated warnings about the threats to law enforcement officers who are on these operations. In fact, just on Tuesday this morning, the department publicized an online tip form for people to submit tips about others who are harassing ICE agents.

Now, I asked the Department of Homeland Security about our reporting. They said that no record of this incident. This earlier incidents of Alex Pretti was recorded. They also said, quote, "There is no database when our law enforcement encounter a violent agitator who is breaking the law, obstructing law enforcement or assaulting them. Our law enforcement make records to advance prosecution. This is not groundbreaking. It is standard protocol."

I'll also add Kasie that we had heard from White House border czar Tom Homan in recent days, who said that a database would be created of those who are arrested for interference, impeding an assault. So, all of this sort of revealing of the landscape in Minneapolis and the collection of information, amid the tensions both between the federal law enforcement on the ground and also the protesters. HUNT: So, considering that that new landscape, excuse me, Josh

Campbell, we have some new video that shows the minutes before Alex Pretti was shot by immigration agents. Walk us through that. What stands out to you?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is important because we've seen the actual incident of the shooting, but these are the moments just before that and you can actually see these immigration agents that are there interacting with Pretti. They're off to the left of that video there. At one point, they start shoving him. They're pushing him back. He's standing there filming. It's important because this is really going against this narrative that the department of homeland security came out with initially saying that he was trying to assault those officers, that he was threatening them, that he was brandishing a firearm.

You see them kind of mixing it up there. They're trying to push him back. These agents appear to be very, very amped up, as these protesters had -- had shown up, but no indication that he was actually posing some type of threat to them.

And it makes you have to wonder. I mean, where did that come from when you had the DHS saying that he was attempting to massacre federal agents? Did senior officials there just make that up? Or, you know, even just as concerning, did the agents on the ground really tell their bosses that he pointed a weapon at them before they opened fire?

It's hard to figure out where that information came from, but every video we found so far completely debunks that.

HUNT: Well, Josh, there's obviously been some criticism from the right as well as gun rights have become part of this story. And the president has said today that, quote, I don't like that he had a gun, speaking of this. Now, you've worked in law enforcement. The Second Amendment protects the right to keep and bear arms. I mean, how would you apply what you know to this situation?

CAMPBELL: Well, you know, it's interesting what the president said there about, you know, he didn't like that Pretti had a gun. We know, again, that Pretti was a lawful gun owner.

And we also had heard, you know, after this weekend, this kind of wave of criticism from the right, from lawful registered gun owners and major gun groups really laying into senior Trump administration officials like the secretary of homeland security, like the FBI director, like the secretary of the treasury, who all said that, no, you don't show up to protests with a gun. There is a Second Amendment that says you can if you are a lawful, peaceful gun owner.

But of course, the president now coming out and, you know, I'm surprised he said it. I think he really believes it for this reason. This isn't the first time he said it today. In fact, just before he got on a helicopter from leaving the White House earlier today, he was talking to reporters and he said, you know, I'll quote him, "You can't have guns, you can't walk in with guns. You just can't. You can't walk in with guns. You can't do that." So, it will be interesting to see where this goes from here. He had

that whole travel time to Iowa to talk to advisers. If for some reason they thought maybe he slipped up or shouldn't have said it, but he's doubling down saying that no, he doesn't believe that this you know, this man who had a license there should have actually have actually had a gun at a protest. Of course, we heard so many on the right saying that no, people show up to protest all the time, you know, if they're lawful gun owners.

So, it'll be interesting to see where this goes from here politically.

HUNT: Yeah. For sure. All right, Priscilla Alvarez, Josh Campbell, thank you very much.

We've got about 30 seconds left.

Scott Jennings, the president is at odds with the NRA and the Gun Owners of America over this gun situation.

Should the president be saying that people shouldn't carry guns if they're going to protest? We've seen plenty of people on the right do it.

JENNINGS: Yeah, I think people should be -- I think the president should say people should be allowed to exercise their Second Amendment rights, as long as they're doing it in accordance with local regulations.

[16:55:09]

And I mean, that ought to be the position of a Republican administration.

HUNT: Alex Thompson, I was surprised to -- I've been surprised to see the administration get so crosswise with the gun groups on this.

THOMPSON: Well, it's because they're reflexively trying to defend their administration's own actions. And as a result -- and as a result, you are seeing them sort of get twisted in knots.

HUNT: All right. Thank you all very much for being here. Really appreciate it. Thanks to you at home for being with us as well.

"THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts after a quick break.

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