Return to Transcripts main page

CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt

Agents Involved In Alex Pretti Killing On Administrative Leave; Trump Ups Rhetoric On Minneapolis, Despite Calls For De-Escalation; Democrats Lay Out Demands To "Restrain" ICE As Shutdown Looms. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired January 28, 2026 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:04]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: He said it was obvious by the way he held it the first time.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Yeah.

KEILAR: Imagine you've got this two-year-old and he's only been playing for honestly like days since he was two and a half or something.

SANCHEZ: Yeah.

KEILAR: He just could tell he was like a snooker shark.

SANCHEZ: Yeah, great way to foster talent. Maybe make a buck off your kid.

Thanks so much for joining us.

THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now.

(MUSIC)

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. Welcome to THE ARENA. Kasie Hunt is off. I'm Dana Bash. It's great to have you with us on this Wednesday.

We have breaking news and that is the Department of Homeland Security just confirmed that the officers involved in the shooting of Alex Pretti were placed on administrative leave Saturday after the incident. Now, administrative leave is standard for federal agents involved in a shooting.

Last night, the president's adviser, Stephen Miller, acknowledged in a statement to CNN that the agents who shot Pretti may not have been following proper protocol.

Now it's a really stunning shift just days after Miller accused Pretti of being an assassin and Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem claimed that he was a domestic terrorist. As that happens, President Trump is yet again sounding a bit different. In a social media post, he says Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey is,

quote, "playing with fire" by refusing to order city officials to enforce federal immigration laws.

That's just 24 hours after he said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have Tom Homan there now. We put him in there. He's great. And they met with the governor, the mayor, everybody else. And we'll -- we're going to deescalate a little bit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Today, Mayor Frey is responding, writing, quote, the job of our police is to keep people safe and adding, everyone should feel safe calling 911. Senate Democrats are now threatening to block ICE funding, which could lead to a partial government shutdown.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK (D-GA): The issues that we're discussing are deadly serious. Literally, whether we see a way forward in terms of the budget, I think that rests squarely with the Republicans. They have the House, the Senate and the White House. They're seeing the same video I'm seeing. I want to know if they're okay with it. I'm certainly not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: And it's not just ICE funding. Democrats are also eyeing a separate effort to impeach Secretary Noem and a couple of Republicans sound almost ready to help them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Do you think she should resign?

SEN. LISA MURKOWSKI (R-AK): Obviously, up to the president. But I think we would be -- we would be better served with new leadership at the department.

SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): When -- she's -- they're asleep at the switch. They're pushing paper and doing DOGE shit and causing people not to get badly needed resources down there. She clearly doesn't know how to manage. She's never managed a large organization, and she's failing at every possible measure of the job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Okay, let's get off the sidelines and head into THE ARENA.

My panel is here, along with CNN's senior crime and justice correspondent, Shimon Prokupecz in Minneapolis, and CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller. Shimon, what more are we learning about this -- these officers being

put on administrative leave? And what's the reaction you're hearing on the ground?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well -- well, for one, like with everyone here in Minneapolis, you know, everything has to be questioned. You have to question how the Department of Homeland Security, how the government is going about doing all of these internal investigations, if there's other investigations going on, and many of the people here have those questions.

The fact of the matter is, you know, you asked Gregory Bovino about the administrative leave. Others have asked about administrative leave. And it took the Department of Homeland Security, essentially, until today to tell us that these officers at the border patrol agent, who was revealed last night, fired the shot and a Customs and Border Protection officer who also fired.

So those two individuals were just now learning days after this happened that they're on administrative leave.

Now, we shouldn't read anything into this. Like you said, this is usually what happens after officers are involved in shootings. It's -- you take them off the street, you put them behind a desk. As the investigation is ongoing.

But again, what is the investigation? And I think there certainly from people who live here and who have been through hell, they want accountability. And so those questions need to be asked. What kind of accountability are they going to get here?

BASH: All right. Shimon, thank you so much.

And, John Miller, to you now. As Shimon mentioned, Greg Bovino did suggest that this is likely to happen. Administrative leave. But as Shimon says, it's a big question about what that means versus what actually could happen and will happen with regard to any investigation.

[16:05:04]

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: So we've seen this discernible pivot on the part of the administration with Stephen Miller, who usually gives no ground on these issues, saying there could have been mistakes made here. The confirmation of the story that we broke last night about the agents being on administrative leave, which is Shimon points out, is normal as much in most cases for the agents to be able to collect themselves, their own emotions without being forced back into the field after the traumatic experience of either being shot at or, in this case, shooting someone and taking their lives under circumstances that are being questioned. So that's routine.

What we don't have clarity on, Dana, is what kind of investigation is being done. We are told by the document that Holmes Lybrand, our Washington investigative producer, obtained yesterday that went to Congress, that HSI, Homeland Security Investigations, is investigating the shooting and that the Office of Professional Responsibility from Customs and Border Protection is investigating on the administrative side.

But we haven't heard from DOJ or the FBI who has some of the evidence collected in this case, whether they are doing a criminal investigation into the agents just an administrative one. So, it's a little more clear, but not clear enough.

BASH: All right. John Miller, thank you so much. Really appreciate that. And Shimon as well.

And my panel is here in THE ARENA.

CNN political analyst and national political reporter for "Axios", Alex Thompson; CNN chief national affairs correspondent Jeff Zeleny; CNN political commentator and former DOJ official, Xochitl Hinojosa. It's been a long day. And former senior adviser to the Trump 2024 campaign, Bryan Lanza.

Hello, everybody.

Jeff Zeleny, I want to start with you because you can kind of see in real time the struggle that the president and his top aides are having with doing something that is unnatural to them, which is trying to course correct, especially on an issue that is so central to who the president is, and that is immigration. And, staying with what they want to do, which is keep these operations going and not let their foot off the gas on criticizing these Democrats, because the core MAGA base, this is what they want.

And so, you hear the president, you know, and the vice president, for that matter, going after Jacob Frey, the Minneapolis mayor. Meantime, as we speak, Tom Homan, the guy who is now in charge in Minneapolis, is in what our colleagues, Priscilla Alvarez and Kristen Holmes are reporting are precarious negotiations with Minnesota officials on how to calm things down.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Look, I mean, what was always a strength, politically speaking and as a subject for this president, I mean, it's one of the central things that brought him to the White House the first time and again in a reelection is now a huge challenge for them. And they are clearly trying to grapple with this in real time. But I think as we've sort of watched this happening, yes, there's been a rhetorical shift. Even the president acknowledging that Bovino, you know, is a little bit out there. He said yesterday, he said it's time to de-escalate. Even him acknowledging the challenge in Minnesota that things aren't going perfectly is a big deal. Donald Trump seldom acknowledges that when things aren't going well.

But I do think that we sort of have to wait and see a little bit to see if there is a policy shift on the ground, if things actually change.

BASH: There isn't one yet.

ZELENY: Exactly. So they're trying to deal with the political relations, the public relations crisis here and the politics of this. But will things actually change? And they do actually believe in this immigration policy. But from the beginning, it simply is a disaster. So, it is unclear to me how the president or the administration will get beyond this without, sort of changing people at the top.

So, one thing is different from this administration from the first time no one gets fired.

BASH: Yeah.

ZELENY: We've seen no firings this time around. The first time, boy, there was a firing every week, sometimes many times a week.

BASH: Fired by tweet.

ZELENY: Exactly. So we'll see if that changes. But I'm kind of skeptical that it will, because the president has kept his cabinet, with him on this. And I think that will be a problem for him, as we've already heard from the Hill.

ALEX THOMPSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: And to your point, this is the first time in the first term there was so much interpersonal drama, lots of finger pointing constantly. And the second term, they've all mostly been rowing in the same direction. There has not been nearly as much interpersonal turmoil and palace intrigue in this White House.

That has changed this week where you have seen finger pointing between Stephen Miller and Kristi Noem and Corey Lewandowski and CBP all basically trying to say, it's your fault, it's your fault, it's your fault. It's also sort of erupted some old, longstanding personal tensions that go back to 2016 between Stephen Miller and Corey Lewandowski.

[16:10:00]

BASH: Yeah, I want to play -- talking about things that we haven't seen a lot of, the Senate majority leader just -- John Thune, just spoke about this. Let's listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: I'm all for an independent, full investigation to get the facts out and to make sure there, you know, there is an accounting for what happened there. So, there have been a lot of statements that have been made, I think many in advance of actually having the facts in front of us. So I'm going to refrain from saying anything about that until we actually have an investigation that's complete.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Bryan Lanza, I'm so glad you're here because this is something that I think people really need to understand. And you can sort of add to this and tell me your perspective, which is that it is in the Trump DNA, his DNA, and everybody around him, especially the communicators, to get the narrative out first quickly, no matter what, to set the narrative and then let everybody kind of try to follow, follow suit. That's what they did here.

But the narrative was that they put out was so flawed because they say of the initial reports they got from the ground in Minneapolis, then they were kind of stuck with it.

BRYAN LANZA, SENIOR ADVISER, TRUMP 2024 CAMPAIGN: I mean, listen, if you look at this incident and you look at what our DNA is as communicators for President Trump, I've been in the room when we've had these. You're right.

It's to get that narrative as fast and speed, absolutely, is your friend in this situation, because if you don't get your narrative, you don't get your statements. Everybody else is filling that space for you. And that makes it easier for momentum to go against you.

The problem is, it looks it appears to me and people I've talked to, it's lack of candor from those ICE officers or Customs and Border Patrol agents on the spot, and then the leadership that they gave this White House wrong information early on. And because of the desire to go fast and define that narrative, that information proved to be inaccurate. I mean, more and more video is not our friend in this, you know, the more and more video makes it look like we were misled by some of these -- the locals, and we ran with it.

BASH: Right. And because that's the sort of political instinct. But when you're governing and you have a tragedy like this that is based on a policy that you're implementing, I would imagine that if you were in there, you would have tried to say, slow your roll, guys.

LANZA: I would -- yeah. Listen, it's hard to second guess any of my close friends there, but if my instinct is always to be with Donald Trump and that's just to double down on certain things. What I would double down on is the scrutiny of the statements that came from on the ground. But it doesn't mean, you know, if those, if those, if they were inconsistent facts, I would have been we need to be careful. But if the facts were what we were told initially, I would triple down on that.

ZELENY: The videotape that was out there pretty early on --

XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah.

ZELENY: And I mean, so that's what I think is so different because as Saturday afternoon was unfolding, I mean, the video was out there much, much faster than in the Renee Good shooting on January 7th. And the fact that this was the second time around, that's what's so interesting to me. There was no -- it didn't seem to be that there was any -- you know, we're going to hold on just a second and see what the facts are.

LANZA: Yeah. I mean, I just received video today. I shared with your producers new video of Alex and the tragedy he went through, but it showed him to be very aggressive to law enforcement prior to that video taking place. So, video is not the friend of the administration. But as more and more video is going to come out, it's going to show a more aggressive victim here. And that's -- and -- you know, video is not our friend, but it's not their friend either.

HINOJOSA: Well, you also referenced that this is a natural for them. It's a natural for them to follow the facts in law and to launch an investigation into somebody who is not their enemy. You know, they are used to going after their enemies, and they're not used to doing investigations the way law enforcement does them. Typically, which is you investigate police involved shootings, especially when it involves a federal officer.

You heard the reporting that we have no idea what they're investigating, and DOJ won't even say that they've opened an investigation, which would be typical protocol. So, all of this is a natural because it does not fit their political narrative of how these rioters and protesters were going after ICE and the ICE and CBP are the victims, and so they don't know how to handle it. And they're reluctant.

It's almost like people are begging them to open an investigation, and they're trying to say, we're opening an investigation here. It's administrative and over here, and hopefully that solves everything. But they're not opening the real investigation, which is the criminal civil rights investigation into the officer in both matters.

THOMPSON: I mean, to your point, they're still treating this more like an optics and political crisis, not an administrative one.

HINOJOSA: That's right.

BASH: I want to play what Lindsey Graham said about Stephen Miller.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): As to Stephen Miller, to my colleagues who believe that you can convince Donald Trump that Stephen Miller is a liability for him, good luck with that. When this clock strikes 12:00 on the Trump era, there will be a few people walking out the door with Donald Trump. Stephen Miller will be in that group.

So, I want everybody to know on the Republican side that Stephen Miller is not the problem. Sanctuary cities is the problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: I think that's so interesting. First of all, because I'm sure he's right. Stephen Miller has been there --

LANZA: Through everything.

BASH: Through everything, since the beginning. He was, you know, with the president for the four years when they planned a lot of what they're doing now, including and especially what we're seeing on the streets of Minneapolis and elsewhere. And yet we are learning a lot more about the kind of pressure that he's putting on all of these agencies to reach certain quotas, which in turn, perhaps has led to a lot of the operations that were seeing that are much broader than what the president suggested in the campaign he would be after.

THOMPSON: Yeah, my colleague Marc Caputo reported this week that Kristi Noem told people internally that the reason why she went out there and said, you know, he was domestic terrorist, or that this person was an assassin, was she did everything on behalf of either the president or Stephen Miller. And Stephen Miller has gotten in the face of many of these cabinet secretaries and taken on arguably a micromanaging role from the White House, directing them to up their quotas to go to places like Home Depot and to really ramp up the immigration enforcement.

HINOJOSA: And also, who they investigate. He is very much in contact with Pam Bondi, and reporting says that he runs the messaging outside in turn internally at DOJ in terms of who they go after, who they don't, and especially on immigration enforcement. We saw that where they wrongfully detained someone, he was out there immediately on Fox saying it was not a mistake.

LANZA: I mean, listen, he's a homeland security advisor as well. You know, independent of his chief of staff title, he is a homeland security advisor. Of course, he's involved. Of course, he was involved in the planning. Of course, he talks to cabinet members. He was with Trump when he made some of these promises on these numbers. And he believes that some of these numbers are attainable.

I may have a different opinion. Other people may have a different opinion. But he and Trump have signed off on this, and it is his burden to execute the policy that the voters voted two years ago. And if the policy ends up kicking us out because of that, then that's a learning experience for us. But, you know, these images don't help.

HINOJOSA: But I don't think these ICE officers and CBP officers are acting on their own. They're acting at the direction of the president and Stephen Miller. And that, I think, is something that really concerns Democrats. They don't think it is enough for, you know, CBP or Kristi Noem to be pushed out. It does not stop until Stephen Miller is gone.

LANZA: I think everything that concerns Democrats is were finally doing border security. I mean, for Democrats under four years under Biden wanted open borders. So yes, there's going to be a resistance from half the country who voted for Joe Biden against closing those open borders. And we're experiencing that resistance today.

ZELENY: Well, this goes far beyond open borders, though. I mean, the reality is some Republicans I talked to wish the president would just declare a victory on the closed borders. It's been very successful. This goes beyond that.

BASH: As somebody involved in these operations told me this morning, going after the worst of the worst is an 80-20 issue. What they're doing right now is a 20-80 issue because it's much more broad. All right. Coming up in THE ARENA, Congressman Dan Goldman will be

here live. New details on what Democrats want in order to end the standoff over DHS funding and keep the government open.

But first, new details in the attack on Democratic Congresswoman Ilhan Omar. What we're learning about potential federal charges and the reaction from some of her fellow lawmakers that may surprise you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ILHAN OMAR (D-MN): I'm definitely going to survive intimidation and whatever these people think they can throw at me, because I'm built that way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:22:42]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OMAR: Kristi Noem must resign or face impeachment.

(APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whoa, whoa!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: The moment Democratic Congresswoman Ilhan Omar was attacked at her town hall in Minneapolis last night. Capitol police are weighing possible federal charges against the 55-year-old man, who has already been charged for third degree assault by Minneapolis police.

The alleged attacker sent a text message to a neighbor saying that he might get arrested at the town hall meeting. Sources tell CNN forensic examiners strongly believe the substance sprayed at the congresswoman was apple cider vinegar.

Omar was unhurt and continued the town hall, but it certainly only escalates concern for lawmakers' safety. Capitol police revealed threats against lawmakers have skyrocketed in recent years. There was a 58 percent increase in threats last year compared to 2024.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OMAR: It is important for people whether they are in elected office or not, to allow these people to intimidate us, to make us not fight for our constituents and for the country we love, and as I said, you know, I've survived war. And I'm definitely going to survive intimidation and whatever these people think they can throw at me because I'm built that way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: And my panel is back now.

Xochitl, as a former DOJ official, I mean, obviously, they're -- it's a different sector of the government, but I'm sure that the notion of safety for public officials came up a lot.

HINOJOSA: Yeah, absolutely. Since 2020, we saw a large increase in threats to all sorts of officials, elected leaders, election officials, local officials. And it was -- we prosecuted all of them or anyone who made a threat to an official. What -- it is very sad when this thing happened and the days following, I immediately was like, what is the Justice Department going to do? Are they actually going to investigate this matter?

And we shouldn't have to think that. We shouldn't have to believe that, you know, our federal government is going to selectively enforce our laws based on whether they're enemies or whether they are friends of the president.

[16:25:03]

And so here, I believe the FBI is investigating, which is fantastic. But my hope is that the rhetoric also changes. And that was a big part of our problem at the Justice Department is over the years that we were there, the rhetoric continued to increase. And there's obviously -- you juggle issues with speech, and then violence. But a lot of what contributes to what you're seeing on the screen right now is because of the rhetoric that's out there.

And there's no doubt that rhetoric against the congresswoman has increased -- negative rhetoric from this administration. And that rhetoric has consequences.

LANZA: Listen, it's -- you know, you don't want to see it happen. You hope that members of Congress have the opportunity to engage with their constituents. You know, that's one of my first jobs in politics, was organizing town halls for elected officials. So that's an important part of our democracy.

You know, the tone has gotten bad on both sides for a very, very long time. The tone is bad in Minnesota. I mean, you have some of the words that the governor has said and that the mayor have said that have been just as incendiary as some of the things the president has said.

You know, I hope stronger minds, you know, sort of push back from that. But the reality is, is the rhetoric has, you know, his ultimately led to one assassination attempt on President Trump. That -- that's a result of rhetoric.

And this is the situation we're in. We need to find an off ramp. I just don't think it's going to happen anytime soon.

BASH: Well, and also -- Charlie Kirk was a political assassination, no question about it. Before you come in, I do want to play -- not play, but read what the president said. Talked to ABC News about this Omar attack, and he said, I don't think abo her. I think she's a fraud. I really don't think about that. And without providing evidence, Trump went on to accuse Omar of

staging the attack, saying she probably had herself sprayed knowing her and then asked if he had seen the video. The president said, no, I haven't. No, I don't have to bother.

Before I bring you in, I do want to play what Manu Raju talked about with Josh Hawley, a Republican senator from Missouri, about what the president had said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The president came out and said that he thought this was staged, the Ilhan Omar attack. Are you okay with him saying that?

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): I have -- I have no knowledge about that one way or the other.

RAJU: But should he be saying that?

HAWLEY: Well, I don't even know what he meant by it was the first time I've heard it. But I will just say this. I think we need to be real clear that, as I just said, you can disagree with somebody, and if you want to go to somebody's event -- listen, I have protesters at my events all the time, you know? That's First Amendment protected.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: So, like other Republicans, he denounced any kind of violence. I mean, that was almost across the board, which was not the response from the president.

THOMPSON: I mean, speaking of, we could use more voices. The one with the biggest voice always seems to ratchet up the rhetoric. Even a day after he called for a de-escalation. And what you are seeing, I mean, just go around capitol hill, any, any member of Congress with any sort of profile, you've just seen it.

Increasingly, they're spending tens of thousands of dollars more every single year on their own personal security. You are it used to be something that you only saw with, like maybe the speaker leadership. Now you're seeing, you know, just even backbencher members, if they have a prominent social media, social media following, they are having to spend lots of money on their own security.

BASH: Well, let's look at some of that. This is -- was compiled by "Axios", July of 2025. Lawmakers in the House of Representatives spent $5,000 monthly and $20,000 to increase home security. September 2025, $10,000 monthly. December 2025, $20,000 monthly. I mean, that is the story.

ZELENY: Without question, and it's across the board. It's in both parties. We can start with Gabby Giffords and go to Steve Scalise and various degrees, but it's both parties. No one is immune to it.

The only thing that we don't see is the tone being taken down. BASH: Yeah.

ZELENY: Take a drink of water.

BASH: You take a drink of water. Yeah.

HINOJOSA: Yeah. And the tone being taken down and actually, on Gabby Giffords, I mean, one thing that we've also seen are attacks on her husband, and this is a man who has had to really, I mean, live with his wife being shot and her life is never going to be the same again. And so whenever you see attacks on him or any other elected official from this administration or anyone, it -- you have to wonder what is going to happen. I've talked to candidates before and they've weighed whether they're going to run for office.

And one of the things that people are making their decisions on are whether or not they can afford to have security and protect themselves and their families. And I know elected leaders who decide not to run for that exact reason.

BASH: You're nodding.

LANZA: Yeah, 100 percent agreement. And it's not just sort of, you know, that cost. Is it -- is it worth the risk anymore?

BASH: Yeah.

LANZA: There are people who legitimately fear going to their cars alone that have, you know, people watching every angle. I mean, it's, you know, when I started in politics, this wasn't the case. It's only gotten worse over the last 20 -- gosh, now 30 years.

And it's scary. It's -- listen, it's not just elected officials. I mean, people at this desk have probably received death threats from the left and the right, and it's the culture has allowed this to permeate. And I've always blamed social media. I think that's an easy out. But that's where the toxicities come from.

THOMPSON: And we've had so many near misses. Right. You mentioned Donald Trump, Governor Josh Shapiro with his book out this week talked, you know, with his governor's mansion was set on fire. And you know, looking at American history, you know, that things actually get much worse if there actually is successful political violence of a high-profile figure.

BASH: Yeah, a lot of copycats are coming up in THE ARENA. Congressman Dan Goldman is here with us live as the odds of a government shutdown, at least a partial one, are growing by the minute. Both sides remain locked in a standoff over DHS funding.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): What we wanted to do is negotiate with the Republicans and come up with a proposal that, again, reins in ICE and ends the violence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:35:24]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCHUMER: These are three policy areas we think must be done. But there's no we -- what we want to do is negotiate with the Republicans and come up with a proposal that, again, reins in ICE and ends the violence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: That was Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer this afternoon, laying out Democrats' demands for changes to ICE policy as they pledge to block a funding bill ahead of a Friday deadline. Their wish list includes the following -- tightening the use of warrants. Enforcing a code of conduct for ICE similar to that of local law enforcement, and for ICE agents to remove their masks and wear body cameras.

We're also learning this afternoon that key Democrats RSVP'd no when the Trump administration invited some rank and file Democratic senators to the White House to try to figure out a compromise on the issue.

Joining me now in THE ARENA to discuss is Democratic congressman of New York, Dan Goldman, who sits on the House Homeland Security Committee.

Thank you so much for being here.

I do want to start with the question about those demands, the list that Chuck Schumer put out, is that something that you agree with? And I just want to kind of the backdrop here is that this homeland security legislation has already come through the House. You voted no. So, if those changes were to be made and it came back to you, would you vote yes?

REP. DAN GOLDMAN (D-NY): Well, I don't think they're enough. And especially because a lot of them, have to do with enforcement and accountability, which in many respects is already the law. And it's just that Kristi Noem is lawless, is not following the law, is not enforcing accountability for those who do not follow the law.

So, the first thing that needs to happen before I vote yes on anything is that Kristi Noem needs to be fired. There needs to be someone new at the top who can make sure that those underneath him or her are following the law. As it stands now.

Now, these are additional things that absolutely must occur. I could come up with some other ones that I would like to see, but this is a bare minimum that we would need to see. Included, at least in my view. If the -- comes back to the House that I would vote on.

BASH: But, Congressman, Kristi Noem, let's just say she were fired. And there's no indication that's going to happen anytime soon. This is the president, the president's policy, his top advisors in the White House are the ones conducting this. So what makes you think that would change things? And isn't it incumbent on -- upon the Congress?

You have the power of the purse. I mean, that's one of your main tools in your in -- your arsenal for the Constitution. Can you just -- can you do more with those or are you saying that like, what's the point? Because the president isn't following them anyway?

GOLDMAN: Oh, no, no, no. No. I'm just saying the first step is Kristi Noem is removed immediately. Someone else is put in there who makes a commitment to enforcing the law as it stands.

What Senator Schumer outlined other colleagues of mine, have put out longer lists. I mean, there are so many things that they are doing that are just lawless and can be stopped and that funding must be restricted for them to use any of those tactics, techniques or strategies. Yes, of course they should be unmasked. Of course, there should be body cameras. Of course, they should follow the fourth amendment and regular, probable cause to go into someone's home. No, they should not stop people on the street and demand their papers.

And certainly, they should be held accountable. And they should not be using excessive violence as they are. We do need to see their use of force guidelines. We need to see the rules of engagement.

We need to understand what kind of training these new agents are receiving, which we know to be far less than whatever they received before. And frankly, I've been asking for a long time to determine who is actually being hired. Are these any January 6th people who've been pardoned? Are there any other people associated with domestic extremist groups?

We don't know who they are because they're masked and unidentified. That is un-American. It is unacceptable.

And this whole dragnet needs to be stopped now to do that through the appropriations bill will require some very specific provisions. But what we need is for them to stop violating people's civil rights, stop killing people and stop arresting immigrants who are trying to follow the law.

BASH: According to CNN's sources, the Trump administration invited some Democrats, senate Democrats over to the White House to try to find compromise, and Democrats said no. I mean, if you're trying to find a way to do this, shouldn't there be some line of communication? And, you know, isn't it incumbent upon Democrats to at least try?

GOLDMAN: I would like to know a lot more about what prompted the Democrats to say no. My suspicion is that Democrats are not going to go over there without some idea of what is going to be presented to them. And my guess is that the indications they received from the White House were completely insufficient for them to even engage. So just an overture does not mean that it's serious. It does not mean that it is meaningful, and it does not mean that it is in good faith. And so, I will trust my senate Democratic colleagues far more than I

trust Donald Trump in this White House to seek out a legitimate compromise so that we can rein in this absolute, rogue, secret, masked police force, militarized police force that is terrorizing our cities.

BASH: We're two days away from is partial shutdown, and it doesn't feel like there is any kind of common ground on this. So, should Americans just be prepared for parts of the government to shut down?

GOLDMAN: I think we have a lot of -- a lot of time. Two days, I realize, but there is a lot of time. There are a lot of -- there are a lot of different ways of maneuvering.

But the fact of the matter is that the American people writ large are absolutely outraged at what this administration is doing with these lawless, untrained, unqualified, violent ICE and CBP officers. If this administration is going to hold out on reining that in, they are going to lose the American people. And we are going to stand up for our immigrant neighbors who are here, those who are here following the law, trying to immigrate legally, not the murderers and rapists that they claim they're all are when only 5 percent are serious felons, they're arresting.

We are going to stand up for the American citizens who are being mistreated and killed, and we are going to stand up until they make changes, because that is what the American people want. If they want to shut this government down because they refuse to rein in their lawless, militarized Department of Homeland Security, that's their choice. But that is not what the American people want.

BASH: New York Congressman Dan Goldman, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it.

GOLDMAN: Thank you.

BASH: And coming up in THE ARENA, the intersection of politics and the pulpit, one of the top leaders in the episcopal church, Bishop Mariann Budde, on what is happening in Minneapolis.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BISHOP MARIANN BUDDE, EPISCOPAL CHURCH: The eyes and ears of the nation are rightfully fixed on what's happening in Minnesota now. This is our moment to -- to determine who we are as Americans, who we are as the United States of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:48:15]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUDDE: We've seen people dragged from their homes and their cars. We've seen peaceful protesters being attacked simply for filming what they see. And in two instances, we've witnessed via video two Americans shot and killed. This is our moment to determine who we are as Americans, who we are as the United States of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: That's episcopal bishop of Washington, D.C., Mariann Budde, calling for unity and reflection amid the Trump administration's hardline immigration operation in Minnesota. Budde is best known, perhaps, in the political world, for using her pulpit at last year's inaugural prayer service to plead with president Trump on behalf of immigrants and others marginalized in their groups.

She joins me now.

Thank you so much for being here, bishop. You are no stranger to Minneapolis. You served there for 18 years. It's where you raised your family. And I know you went there last week and spoke at a multi-faith service, and you called for unity and nonviolence, just like we heard in that social media post.

What did you see during your visit?

BUDDE: Well, first of all, thank you, Dana, it's great to be with you. First of all, I need to say that prior to the visit, because of my family and collegial ties, I'd been hearing people say over and over again, no matter what you're seeing, no matter what you're hearing in the news, it doesn't convey the level of fear and chaos that we are experiencing.

And when I arrived, I arrived late Thursday night last week and spent sorry, Wednesday night, Thursday, Friday and Saturday. The -- I saw and heard evidence of all of that. I also saw, this extraordinary expression of neighborly love across the entire Twin Cities.

[16:50:09]

People choosing to stand in solidarity and to and to step in where needed, delivering groceries, tutoring children, protecting their daycare centers where their children attend, walking through subzero weather to stand in solidarity and to call for an end to the -- to the violence and the cruelty of the immigration policy enforcement.

BASH: And you did make waves last year at President Trump's inaugural prayer service, asking him to be merciful towards immigrants. I want to play some of that for our viewers.

BUDDE: Sure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUDDE: The vast majority of immigrants are not criminals. They pay taxes and are good neighbors. I ask you to have mercy, Mr. President, on those in our communities whose children fear that their parents will be taken away

(END VIDEO CLIP) BASH: You got some criticism for those comments, including and especially from the president himself. Can you reflect on that now, a year later, what you would hope to accomplish and how that sermon may resonate today?

BUDDE: Well, I can say that a year ago, I could not have even imagined how -- how terrible the enforcement of this new immigration stance would be. The very things that I said that we feared has come to pass. Most extremely in what we've seen in Minnesota in the last few weeks. But, you know, it's been happening here in Washington as well. And Chicago, San Francisco, Louisiana.

It is in the name of protecting Americans from the most violent of criminals. We are, in fact, seeing workers that, you know, all manner of workers in all sectors of our society. We're seeing children being detained. We're seeing children used as bait to detain their parents.

And invoking a level of fear not only among undocumented workers, but anyone who resembles what our enforcement officials believe to be undocumented. And so it is, its the fulfillment of our of our worst suspicions. Last year and actually, all the more reason to call for a change in policy direction and lines of accountability.

BASH: If you had a chance to speak to President Trump again, what would you say?

BUDDE: Well, I would say something of the same of what I said last year, that contempt is a dangerous way to run a country. That the American people are tired of being cast against one another in categories of dehumanization and fear, and that more and more of us are organizing and saying that this is not the America we choose, that we will care for our neighbors and our fellow Americans and those who are with us as immigrants, that we will not be divided and we will not stand for the kinds of brutality that we are witnessing by those who are acting under the auspices of the federal government.

BASH: And, you know, we hear a lot from Republicans who don't like the current policy of the administration, but do -- and even Democrats -- but do say, look, if there are criminals who broke the law other than perhaps the law coming into the United States illegally, then they should be removed from America.

BUDDE: Yeah. I mean, none of us are arguing for, you know, a -- I mean, we all realize that we need to have a sound immigration policy. We need to have a safe border. We need to have laws that protect us from violent crime. That that is not what's at issue here.

And but I would argue that in the name of protecting us from violence, a whole swath of people are being cast in those terms in an attempt to eliminate it seems to eliminate people who do not fit a particular vision of what it means to be an American or to be welcome in this country. And I think that's what is that question now, as well as, quite frankly, the consistent barrage of miss -- I -- there's no other word to say it. Their lies, constant lies about the people who are being cast in those terms and about the policies that are being forced. [16:55:10]

BASH: Bishop Mariann Budde, thank you. Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it.

Thanks to my panel.

BUDDE: Thank you for taking the time.

BASH: I appreciate you being here as well.

A quick programing note tonight, don't miss this. It's a live town hall from Minneapolis. As residents question officials and community leaders amid what we have been talking about, weeks of protests and tragedy. Anderson Cooper and Sara Sidner will moderate "State of Emergency: Confronting the Crisis in Minnesota". CNN town hall.

It begins tonight at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. Or you can watch on the CNN app.

"THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" will start after a quick break.