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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Now: Anti-ICE Protests In Minneapolis; Soon: Don Lemon In Court After Arrest Over Minnesota Protest; Trump DOJ Releasing Millions Of Pages Of Epstein Files; Actress Catherine O'Hara Dead At 71. Aired 4- 5p ET
Aired January 30, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN ALLIN, SNOW INDUSTRY CONSULTANT: -- a lot of people who say I can go out and shovel my driveway, but they don't realize that the cold and the snow, that's putting an undue stress on your cardiovascular system.
[16:00:14]
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Yeah, totally.
ALLIN: Don't do it.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Yeah, it gets tricky. And that's great advice. Just stay inside where it's warm. Watch "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" and enjoy a treat.
KEILAR: John, thank you so much. Really helpful advice.
And THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now.
(MUSIC)
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hey, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's good to have you with us on this Friday.
As we come on the air, independent journalist, former CNN anchor Don Lemon is expected to make his first appearance in federal court this afternoon after being arrested following his live streaming of a protest at a church earlier this month.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DON LEMON, FORMER CNN ANCHOR: I'm just here -- I'm not -- I'm just here photographing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you okay?
LEMON: I'm not -- I'm not part of the group. I'm just photographing. I'm a journalist. You don't know. That's what they're saying. So, we're here just chronicling and reporting. We're not part of the activists, but we're here just reporting on them.
(END VIDEO CLIP) HUNT: Lemon's attorney, Abbe Lowell, tells CNN he intends to fight the two federal charges, which include conspiring to violate someone's constitutional rights.
Also facing charges is Georgia Fort, an independent journalist who livestreamed the moments when federal agents came to arrest her early this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGIA FORT, INDEPENDENT JOURNALIST: Well, this is really scary. There's kids in the house. You --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So today, Fort's family is calling for her release, saying she's not a protester and not an activist. As that happens, the Justice Department today announced that its opened a civil rights investigation into the death of Alex Pretti. That means the DOJ will examine whether the DHS agents who shot and killed Pretti violated any laws in doing so.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Are you saying that the Justice Department has opened a civil rights investigation into his death?
TODD BLANCHE, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: Yes. I don't -- I don't want to overstate what's happening. I don't want the takeaway to be that there's some massive civil rights investigation that's -- that's happening. This is a -- what I would describe as a standard investigation by the FBI when there circumstances like what we saw last Saturday.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Let's get off the sidelines, head into THE ARENA. My panel is going to be here.
We're also going to get started with CNN's senior crime and justice correspondent, Shimon Prokupecz. He is at the center of a protest in Minnesota right now.
So, Shimon, take us onto the ground. And what you're seeing, because I understand there's been significant activity the last day or two and then walk us through what we know about this civil rights investigation.
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, first, with the civil rights investigation, I think this is a remarkable reversal from Todd Blanche there. The deputy attorney general. You know, all week, we've been hearing pressure. Weve been hearing from people here in the community who say they want a FBI investigation. They want a Department of Justice investigation.
And, you know, there's a lot of caveats here from Todd Blanche and just exactly what that investigation is going to entail. The one significant thing I can tell you is the fact that the FBI is now leading the investigation, which according to people I've talked to, that's the appropriate place for this to go, not what we've been hearing. Homeland security investigations, they don't do these kinds of investigations. So now that the FBI has it and the DOJ, this is a remarkable reversal, certainly. And we'll see where it goes.
There are other questions about other investigations like the Renee Good and why that is not being investigated by the FBI and the DOJ.
And here's Todd Blanche response to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLANCHE: As it relates to Ms. Good, I don't -- like I said before, there's investigations that happen all the time with respect to shootings like what happened last Saturday. And cases are handled differently by this department depending on the circumstances.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PROKUPECZ: And so out here, Kasie, as you were saying, we are seeing, I mean, thousands and thousands of people, we've been standing on the corner here for the past ten minutes. This crowd has not let up. It's just continuous.
It's really a sign here that the people in this community, the people in Minneapolis, the people in Minnesota are not letting up despite, you know, Tom Homan, the border czar telling us yesterday that there's a draw down. These people here don't believe it. They are out here. They are saying they want ICE out completely.
You know, there has been so much fear and frustration in this community, and you're seeing it by this response. I've covered many protests, especially in New York City. And I have to tell you, I've not seen a crowd like this before. I mean, it is eight degrees out here, eight degrees. It feels like five. It is freezing, but nothing, nothing is stopping these people from coming out, holding these signs, coming together.
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I mean, you can see it. I mean, for several blocks, several blocks. There are just people, deep rows of people with signs, and you can hear them chanting and you can see them.
I don't even know where this ends. I was thinking, we get an end here, but at this point, it's probably tens of thousands of people out here, Kasie. It's just remarkable to see.
HUNT: You know, Shimon, I'm going to stick with you for a second because we're seeing a pretty remarkable overhead shot of what you are seeing a piece of. And you can, in fact, really see exactly what you're describing, that you can't even really find an end to this.
And, you know, I just have to say, watching it from this vantage point and for people who may be taking this in on TV, this feels a little different than what we saw, say, outside the federal building where you had a relatively small group of people but very tense moments. I mean, this is a very large group of people here.
PROKUPECZ: This is a community that has come together. I have to say, you know, there have been other protests, anti-ICE protests that I've covered. This is very different. You can see how people are truly been affected by this in Minneapolis, in Minnesota, where people have been so afraid to leave their homes - U.S. citizens who have been afraid to leave their homes, U.S. citizens who have been stopped, stopped and asked for their papers, asked for their citizenship to prove their citizenship.
And as a result, I mean two deaths here. This is what we're seeing. The people come out in such a way that they are really hoping, hoping that their voices could be heard. They are feeling in some ways that the government is listening to them. Certainly, their state and their local officials are listening to them and supporting them.
And I can also tell you, Kasie, this has been peaceful. We are not even seeing any law enforcement out here. The Minneapolis police department is allowing them to just take the streets. I mean, several streets around this area have been shut down, and the protesters are just continue to walk.
I mean, we're on the sidewalk here and were seeing some of this is bleeding out into the sidewalk because there's just no room in the street. I mean, this is quite a scene out here seeing this large, massive, massive crowd out here.
And the cold -- it's amazing because it is freezing out here. I mean, freezing. And despite that, these people are together and they are -- you know, they're just -- I'm seeing smiles on people's faces. I haven't seen many smiles, but I think this is just giving them an opportunity to be together and to believe that -- go ahead, man, that they're, you know, trying to make a difference. And maybe they could actually make a difference. It's remarkable.
HUNT: Yeah. Shimon, stand by for us. You know, I'd love to come back to you as you're out there because you were doing great work also in the cold.
But I want our, our panel to weigh in here because David Chalian, you know, I think you may be seeing and were going to keep these overhead pictures, you know, for people to be able to see as, as, as long as they're still coming in to us. Right. This is a massive difference. You know, from even I mean, yes, there has been a lot of protest activity, but clearly the administration, the White House has been forced essentially to change tone because they can see what those pictures are, are showing us.
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yeah. Now, obviously, this is an acutely impacted community coming out --
HUNT: It's the center of it. CHALIAN: Right? It's the center of it. But I think it is emblematic
of what has broken through in the country. To what, you know, we call them politics, the normies. Right. Like people who aren't even really engaged in day to day news coverage or politics or even civically focused, reminded that this has been a story that has broken through to everyone. You hear about it in your own lives, from friends and family, whatever they'll discuss with you. And I think what you're seeing here is just emblematic of that from the community, where it is the center of gravity.
The reason that the White House changed rhetoric this week. And we'll see how much actual policies on the ground change. The reason why you saw new personnel go in all of that is because they keenly understand they were on the wrong side of a large swath of public opinion. And that's why you saw the change.
HUNT: Kate Bedingfield -- I mean, you have watched these pictures right along with all of us. You know, obviously, Shimon, is the authority having been on the ground to actually see them. But certainly from what we've experienced -- I mean, a march of this magnitude, you know, obviously, it comes in the wake of -- you know, Alex Pretti's death. A second death.
Yeah.
KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean, I think you're seeing the intense outcrop of outrage that people are feeling. To David's point, you're seeing it crystallize in the community here, but it's being felt across the country. You're seeing it -- you know, certainly seeing it on social media. Just anecdotally, you see, prominent, influential accounts who don't typically talk about politics, raising concerns about this, expressing their opposition to what they're seeing from Trump and, and to these killings.
So, it is permeating, and I think it's also important, just from a political perspective, to recognize that this comes at a moment when Trump's numbers across the board are declining. I mean, we've seen public polling that shows that a number of the cohorts he was able to bring over to him in 2024 have the support has eroded. So, he is not -- he's not walking into this moment of intense public backlash against what they're seeing from ICE in a particularly politically strong place or particularly politically strong footing.
HUNT: Bryan Lanza, I mean, how much of this is really about people looking at this and thinking, you know what, this could be me. This could be my neighbor, right? I mean, whether it's somebody that looks like that looks like what Alex Pretti looks like, or Nicole Good looks like, or what any one of those Latino voters who backed Trump, Latino voters who, by the way, who if they're voting, they're U.S. citizens, right, who are experiencing what Shimon is describing in the streets.
BRYAN LANZA, SENIOR ADVISER, TRUMP 2024 CAMPAIGN: Listen, the Alex Pretti videos is jarring. Every -- more video that comes out becomes more and more jarring. It doesn't match with the White House's facts, don't match what took place. That in itself has caused a major ripple along this -- along this path. My suspicion, my suspicion only gets larger now. There are policies that -- the administration is not going to change policies. They're certainly going to change actors. I always refer to this as Trump's play, and he's directing the pieces, and we've already seen a change of actors.
Is that enough? We'll see. You'll see a little bit of a change of tone. But the reality is, is this is the policy he's going to go on. This is the policy. They brought him to the table. There have been some errors along the way. They're going to correct them, but they're going to go forward.
And the impact ultimately be with the Latino community -- I'm a part of the Latino community -- you know, it's tough. You know, it's -- you have friends, you have family who call you concerned. You know, I've -- I have friends who fought in wars, who are just like, I have to carry my military ID, and that might not be enough. You know, that's -- that sucks. It just does.
HUNT: And it's different than how it was before.
LANZA: No, I mean, I would say this, you know, I grew up in a rough neighborhood, so we were always harassed by law enforcement. So being harassed by law enforcement today is no different than what it was for most people who grew up in these rough neighborhoods. I mean, I had to deal with, you know, stop and frisk.
You know, these are things this sort of institutional for Latino and the Black communities. For us, it's not -- it's not any different. I mean, "La Migra" was a popular term in my culture that was shouted everywhere and everybody knew what it was. And there was always scared of it.
But I think we're now seeing it, at least other people in our -- in our in our community, in our city, in a different way. And that's jarring because for a long time, you know, I hate to sort of talk about race. White people didn't see what we saw all the time, and now it's just different. Now they get to see, you know, live on CNN, live on Fox, what we grew up with.
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: And that's the million dollar point, right? You know, there was and I've said this on this program before, the breaking point was inevitable. On immigration, the certainly it was a strength of the president to come in, wanting to, quote, wanting to fix the border, or address the border and some of the failures of the Biden administration and so on.
But the way in which they ramped up enforcement was going to lead to something either tragic or traumatic, or just losing the American people, which they kind of have. I thought it might have been the nannies or the folks, you know, something with hitting close to home. No, it was white people getting shot.
And we just need to acknowledge that, you know, to your point, Bryan and, Kasie, you touched on it a little bit, too. There is just the way the public sees those images hit differently based on who the person was who took the bullets.
HUNT: I do think it's also an important piece of this conversation. I don't want to minimize. You know, you said I thought it would be this. I think there are a lot of people and I imagine there are people at this table who have people in their lives who are in this country legally, who feel afraid, who they've known for a really long time.
I actually do think that that remains an important piece of this conversation. I don't want to lose sight of those people just because I think that there is a lot of pain in some of those communities.
WILLIAMS: My -- my, what, 78-year-old mother from Jamaica is afraid and sort of talks about the need to carry more identification or her passport. Having been a citizen for like five decades or something like that. So, you know, this is a pervasive fear that the administration has quite successful. I mean, I would gather this is what they wanted. But here we are.
BEDINGFIELD: Although it is different than what Trump campaigned on from a policy perspective, it is different than the rhetoric that he used during the campaign, which people were very supportive of, which was we're going to focus on violent criminals. We're going to focus --
CHALIAN: Worst of the worst.
BEDINGFIELD: Yeah, the worst of the worst. And that that was part of how --
LANZA: We're going to start with the violent crime. But we never said we were going to --
HUNT: But every time when they were asked, they were pressed on this during the campaign over and over again.
[16:15:02]
And they wouldn't go and say it and, you know, claim that this was what they were going to do.
LANZA: But it's important to think -- it's jarring. You know, let's take away what's going on in Minnesota. The roughness you've seen displayed by Customs and Border, ICE. Those images have actually stopped, you know, border crossings like as much as -- as much as people are offended by it. The roughness of it has actually stopped border crossings.
(CROSSTALK)
HUNT: -- stopped by the roughness --
LANZA: By the way, by the way, that's also resulted in less deaths, less crime and all these things along the border to the people who are crossing. So there's, you know, as much as we want to criticize it, the impact is clear and the results are actually having positive cost.
BEDINGFIELD: Well, and that kind of -- HUNT: Hold on one second. I want to just walk through what our
viewers are seeing right now, because we started off with overhead shots of Minneapolis. You saw people walking down in the crowd. We've since been kind of taking you around the country. There was a sizable crowd in Los Angeles. This is Albuquerque, New Mexico.
You saw some people gathered in the streets in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. And I also want to check back in with our Shimon Prokupecz, who is on the streets in Minneapolis. And he is talking with someone who decided to come out today.
Shimon, if you can hear me, please. What are you seeing? What are you hearing?
PROKUPECZ: Yeah, I can hear you.
So I was just talking to Erica.
Erica, tell me what it's like being out here with all these people.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel very blessed to be here with fellow Minnesotans. Possibly people from out of state. I saw assigned someone from Utah -- Utah standing with us. It feels amazing to know that there are people across the country who are feeling our pain here, and this is happening all around the United States, and I feel really proud to be a Minnesotan.
PROKUPECZ: What about the cold? Anything like this to deter you from what you're doing here?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely not. I was out last weekend. It's warmer than negative 10. I think it's 10 degrees and it feels fine.
PROKUPECZ: And how long have you been marching now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: About 25 minutes.
PROKUPECZ: And it just lasted. What's your message to the people who are not here in Minneapolis and Minnesota, who have an experience with people who have been living here, have been experiencing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Believe what you see, not what you're told, not what you hear. Take the evidence and make your own judgment about it. And know that we are all people and we are all oppressed. And we have to stay together and believe the truth and find it together and stand together.
PROKUPECZ: Okay. Thank you. Stay warm. All right, all right. Well, there it is. Kasie. I mean, it's just -- it's incredible to see, you know, the way people are coming together here, really.
You know, there have been other like I said to you earlier, there have been other protests that I've been covered ICE protests. But this is -- this feels so much different because you're really seeing, different people here. The younger people, older people, people of all races really coming together. This has really, really motivated people very clearly to come out and
to voice their concerns over what's been happening.
HUNT: Yeah. Pretty remarkable.
Shimon, we're going to continue to talk about this here with the panel and, and keep with your with your shots and things like that. So do let us know if we should come back and talk to some more folks on the ground there. It's worth noting, of course, that this is a nationwide day of protests. Some have called for a nationwide strike. Many businesses, you may have noticed if you follow local businesses on your social media feeds, some of them are closing today in solidarity with this.
I know certainly some, Elliot Williams, in the Washington, D.C. area are.
But I want to bring us back to the conversation we were having because it's an important one. Bryan was talking about how the Trump administration, the policy, the campaign was about the deterrence at the border. I mean, the Trump administration was very quick to tout that border crossings dropped precipitously almost immediately after he was inaugurated.
WILLIAMS: Sure.
HUNT: And, you know, I'm curious if the tactics that we then saw on our TV are really necessary to implement the policy change that Bryan is cheering.
WILLIAMS: I think a couple of things. One, they dropped precipitously because they were so high before. So that's part of it.
I just, you know, to this point about because there's a little back and forth between you two about the worst of the worst. And no one -- and to be clear, I was at ICE for five years. As many of you know, no one, I think, has suggested that people who are not the worst of the worst are somehow immune from being removed from the United States.
But let's be clear, it was -- what's up?
LANZA: That's what sanctuary cities say, actually.
WILLIAMS: Listen, like people can still be removed from the country even if they are not, if they have -- if they don't have homicide convictions, right?
[16:20:00]
My point is that there simply are not the number of worst of the worst people that the Trump administration, I think, led the American people to believe.
And these images of folks who clearly are not, quote/unquote, "the worst of the worst" are really sticking with people. And this moment, I still think was inevitable, even if it's leading to border crossings being down.
HUNT: I think, Bryan, I mean, I'm interested to know your reflections on, you know, the pictures of Liam Ramos, right? The five-year-old boy who was taken. And there's people on the scene who are saying, please, we'll take care of him. They're, you know, trying to track down his father. And people here were here for the worst of the worst. And then they see Liam Ramos, and it's really hard to understand.
LANZA: Yeah. Listen, there are consequences and unintended consequences and results of law enforcement, right? I mean, I had a friend who whose kid had to be put in child protective services because he was dumb enough to get a DUI and they couldn't track down the mother because she was, you know, having girls weekend somewhere else like. And so, he spent, you know, didn't get a chance to spend with the family, you know, family calls and says, hey, were family.
The process is very sloppy when it comes to kids, so I'm not surprised it's actually sloppy at the ICE level. It's just unfortunate. We just now see those images, I'm sure.
HUNT: So, it sounds like America needs to do better on that one across the border.
LANZA: A hundred times better on all of it.
HUNT: I agree with that.
LANZA: Yes.
HUNT: I mean, by kids, right?
LANZA: A hundred percent.
BEDINGFIELD: But --
HUNT: Last word, quick.
BEDINGFIELD: Just quickly remember, I mean issues of children suffering under this system were a huge political anchor for Trump in the first administration. Family separation was the one place within immigration -- within Trump's immigration agenda. In the first, in the first term where people that that generated this kind of backlash.
So, when children are the focal point and you're seeing children be what feels like mistreated --
LANZA: Yeah.
BEDINGFIELD: -- there's a lot of -- there's a lot of political potency.
LANZA: I guess -- I guess it's the separation, right? You know, a U.S. citizen, you know, they get in trouble with law enforcement and the circumstances are what they are. That kid can very much be set, will be separated from the family. And there seems to be no criticism. But when it's an illegal alien, now, we're worried and concerned.
Like, let's show concern for the vast majority of the Americans that are doing things the right way. Let's show concern for most of these kids, but let's not create a special class where now they're going to be treated differently, now they get a special privilege over American citizens.
HUNT: All right. We have to take a pause in this conversation, which clearly could go on for quite some time. We're going to continue monitoring what's going on, on the streets of Minneapolis across the country. You're looking right now at Los Angeles, but we're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back with much more news.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:26:55]
HUNT: We are continuing to monitor nationwide protests of thousands taking to the streets in cities across America to protest against ICE and the Trump administration's immigration enforcement tactics. So, of course, as that's been going on, independent journalist and former CNN anchor Don lemon is expected to make his first court appearance this afternoon. He is facing two federal charges related to his presence inside a church where protesters disrupted a service earlier this month.
David Chalian, we're learning. We're just learning kind of the details and, you know, Elliot, in fact, why don't I start with you, Elliot, in terms of I don't know if you've looked at this, a draft indictment, and then I'd like David to weigh in on kind of what it means that the administration is going this far.
I mean, what are they claiming, that Don Lemon did? I mean, we played footage earlier in the show of him in this church saying, I'm here, I'm photographing, I'm a journalist. I'm not part of the group. What are they claiming he did wrong?
WILLIAMS: They're claiming he, in effect, conspired with the people who were involved in this protest, who, obstructed or impeded people's access to their religion by going into a church and interrupting a church service for the purpose of protesting the pastor, at least according to the indictment, these folks were conspiring. And they -- and they add don lemon in there to, in effect, make an agreement to interrupt the church service that I think the problem, the huge glaring problem with the indictment is that a lot of the things that they're claiming that don lemon did are the normal practice of journalism.
So, the big one being, I'm not going to disclose where you are or I'm not going to disclose the location of this group of people right now. Well, any national security reporting does exactly that. Any time folks are embedded at times with their sources and not disclosing where their sources are, it's a very common journalistic practice. And so this really opens the door to I think criminalizing a lot of aspects of journalism that that perhaps the administration wants to go down that road, but I think is a profoundly dangerous one. CHALIAN: And to your broader point, there's nothing I've seen of any
evidence suggesting that he wasn't committing the act of journalism. Theres nothing. Maybe something will come out that suggests that. I don't know.
But it seems to me nobody has presented any evidence yet to refute Don's theory of the case. I understand they're charging him with conspiring, but what evidence exists in the public domain right now that he wasn't committing the act of journalism? I don't see any.
So then then if you're going to criminalize journalism in the name of, by the way, defending the First Amendment rights for those gathering in the religious activity, it just seems like -- talk about the definition of a slippery slope. I mean, that's not even slippery. I mean, that -- that would just be -- we would be in a whole new world. I think if this if this does hold up, because on the facts that we see today, it seems like Don was committing the act of journalism.
WILLIAMS: And let me just. So, it's the conspiracy and the actual obstruction is two different charges, right? Getting in the way of their faith. The bar for and to be fair, the bar for conspiracy is very, very low.
[16:30:01]
You simply have to have an agreement with one other person and commit one. The term is overt act, a very small act to aid them.
Now they could be claiming in the indictment that merely by not disclosing their identities or telling them where to -- whatever he might have done, that he's actually aiding in the conspiracy.
But again --
CHALIAN: But even if he had a tip from this group that this was going to happen --
WILLIAMS: Yeah.
CHALIAN: -- and he then went to go cover it.
WILLIAMS: That's journalism.
CHALIAN: Right.
HUNT: Yeah. And there has been some conversation about him meeting with them beforehand. I mean, I think it is important to underscore that it is very common practice. You know, if you think about the way, you know, David, when you're assigning reporters to cover a presidential campaign, no one can be in two places at once. So if there's a journalist that is meeting with and building relationships with people that are opposing the other candidate by their very nature, they are then going to potentially then go cover a protest that those people might have against another candidate.
I mean, Kate, go ahead. BEDINGFIELD: I would just -- I think that the attorney general's
public posture on this is actually also very telling. This seems to me that they feel the administration feels that this is a fight that they want to pick. They want to be in this battle with somebody like Don Lemon, who they believe they can paint as a very lefty activist.
They feel like that's a winning -- that's a winning fight for them. And I think the fact that you had Pam Bondi out tweeting that she directed the arrest of these two journalists tells you a lot about what they're hoping to achieve from this. From a PR perspective, I think the idea that were going to erode the rights of journalists under the First Amendment, in service of a PR effort by the administration is seems incredibly dangerous to me. I think the precedent that that's setting is incredibly dangerous.
But it seems clear from their -- you know, their, their kind of public representation of it. They think they seem to think it's a winning fight that they want to pick.
WILLIAMS: And real quick as a P.R. matter, it will be the gift that keeps on giving because even dismissing an indictment can take months, if not much longer than that. All those hearings and all those court filings give them repeated opportunities to keep this in the news, which in a way that they think helps them.
HUNT: Yeah, Bryan, I mean, where do you draw the line here? I mean, there were journalists that accompanied some of the groups that eventually attacked the Capitol on January 6th.
LANZA: No, listen, I would hope this, you know, I would hope that they win, because if they don't win, they've just made Don Lemon relevant. Right? You know, he's -- you know, no other network wanted to hire him. He got fired. Well, he got fired from here.
He's got a podcast. That's great. He's been isolated to sort of nothing land. And the fact that they targeted him and that he probably has a pathway out only makes him stronger.
Trump learned from this whenever the media attacked him, failed and came up short. He got stronger result. I'm just an opinion. Why are we making somebody who's been forgotten relevant again and ultimately going to make him stronger again?
HUNT: You know, David Chalian, I actually want to bring into this conversation the person who was affected, who is not named Don Lemon, because I actually think its probably the more important and potentially problematic piece of this story. I mean, don lemon, you know, I was a colleague of Don's for a brief period of time. We know each other. We've been friendly in the past.
He is famous. He is well off. He has a big audience on the Internet, to Bryan's point. If you know, he beats the -- this -- these charges, I mean, he has been elevated by what Trump has done, right? He has power with which to fight back.
Georgia Fort, her family is pleading for her to be let out of detention. She -- we don't know a lot about her necessarily, but she is an independent journalist who previously was not known to have worked for a major media organization like this one. If the administration is any administration of any political party is going after journalists like that, what effect does that have on people who otherwise would want to take a risk, to try to report something in their community?
CHALIAN: And by the way, I mean this whole notion of an independent journalist I mean, all due respect to those of us sitting here at CNN, this is where this is all going, right in our in our business, in our industry, in the --
HUNT: And let me pause you really quickly. I need to get this new reporting on it literally just crossed. But it affects something that I just said. Fort was released after filming this anti-ICE protest. So, we now know -- we're reporting at CNN that she's been released from custody.
Sorry. Continue.
CHALIAN: But I do think and you know, Don is now an independent journalist also. And I take everything you say about his power and his agency in this moment different than hers. But she is sort of the role model of what a real independent journalist is in many ways, without connections to any kind of institutions or an institutional past, perhaps. And how that gets defined through this case that could have ramifications for our entire industry for decades to come, because technology is only going to allow more and more -- is a citizen reporter, an independent journalist? You know, where -- what is the line between activists and journalists? That's something our society is going to have to sort through here.
WILLIAMS: Yeah, but we should also note that -- and this is where I differ with you a little bit, Bryan, as to sort of the relevance point. These folks are immensely relevant, just consider that the White House briefing that was once only the domain of the "A.P." and CNN and Washington Post and so on, now has --
[16:35:08]
HUNT: Well, and that's the choice they're making. They are -- they are making a choice to make a decision about who is going to be able to sit in that chair. And there's a reason why, you know, those institutions were set up the way they were and often governed by themselves.
But, you know, here we are, were going to continue to follow these protests also here, the days other major news story, the Justice Department is now in the process of releasing millions of documents related to Jeffrey Epstein, including some that mentioned Donald Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TODD BLANCHE, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: I can assure that we complied with the statute. We complied with the act, and there is no, we did not protect President Trump. We didn't protect or not protect anybody. I mean, I think that that we -- that there's a hunger or a thirst for information that I do not think will be satisfied by the review of these documents.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:40:20]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLANCHE: Today, we are producing more than three million pages, including more than 2000 videos and 180,000 images in total. That means that the department produced approximately 3-1/2 million pages in compliance with the act.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: The Justice Department has released another large batch of Epstein files, saying they've completed their review of documents related to the convicted sex offender. Remember, Congress passed the Epstein Files Transparency Act back in November. They gave the Justice Department a December 19th deadline to release all documents in its possession.
One of the authors of that federal law, Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna, says nearly half of the Epstein files are still being withheld before today, less than 1 percent had been released. I want to bring in Congressman Suhas Subramanian. He sits on the House Oversight Committee. He's been -- they've been conducting their own investigation into Jeffrey Epstein.
Congressman, thank you very much for being here.
Can you walk us through how you and your team are approaching, going through these files? At what here do you -- are you highlighting or has stood out to you in what is an enormous amount of information
REP. SUHAS SUBRAMANYAM (D-VA): Yeah, look, it's a lot of files. We're still going through them. We've got a great team on the oversight committee, especially the Dem staff.
But one of the things that I'm noticing is what's not in the files, as you just mentioned, the DOJ has said that they had over six million files, but they're only releasing about three to three and a half. And we want to know, you know, where are the other three million files? Why are they withholding them?
There's some files that are missing in here. We're talking about the indictment that was prepared against Jeffrey Epstein before he was given the sweetheart deal, as well as the memorandum in support of that, talking about interviews with victims and witnesses, talking about his crimes, and also how they were covered up. And so there's a lot that's missing in here so far that and there's no indication that any of that is in here. And so again, I go back to August, which is when the oversight
committee issued a subpoena asking for all the documents to be released to us and go back to the last march, which is when they said they had all the documents ready to release, and all of them were redacted already and ready to go. And so there's something fishy happening again with this Department of Justice. And they need to be held accountable.
HUNT: So speaking of redactions, they did say that they redacted across the board women's faces. They said that members of Congress who were interested in seeing unredacted files could give them a call and see them. Is that something you intend to do?
SUBRAMANYAM: Oh, certainly. I mean, and just more than that, they forgot to redact or failed to redact more victim identifying information in this batch as well. We've seen a few instances already, and in the last one they did the same. And so, you know, they've said this is a reason to withhold files yet it's happening again.
And then we also want to know what are they withholding, too, right? What information are they not releasing because they feel like it's not necessary? I think this cherry picking of the release is just as concerning as what's in here.
HUNT: And is it your understanding that this is going to be it from the Department of Justice, or do you expect that these files that you say are not included, these additional, you know, two and a half to three million files, potentially, are all going to be withheld permanently?
SUBRAMANYAM: Well, they're saying that this is it. We're saying that this is not it. That there is more to do. Certainly, our investigation will continue until we have all the documents required and needed.
HUNT: So, you're saying that they are not following the law because of this?
SUBRAMANYAM: Oh, they're not following the law. I mean, they broke the law already. It's been more than 40 days since it was due. Right. And then they were supposed to release an explanation of the redactions, a detailed explanation of what was withheld. They've already broken the law several times now.
And so, you know, we are where we are and were going to continue to put pressure on them to release all the documents and continue to ask for the information, because this investigation isn't just about the crimes, it's about the cover up of the crimes and why Epstein was allowed to continue his crimes, and others were able to get away with crimes. So we're going to continue to push for more information.
HUNT: And sir, before I let you go, I do want to touch briefly on the protests that we are seeing nationwide against the tactics that ICE has been using. What are you seeing in your community? What does it say to you about where we are?
SUBRAMANYAM: I mean, people are scared now. People are concerned. [16:45:00]
I mean, the folks that have been shot were American citizens, right? And so, this is way past trying to do reasonable immigration enforcement. We're at a point now where there's this fear in the community and people don't want their, constitutional rights impeded upon. So certainly, we're going to continue to speak out against it. And if they want us to fund ICE like a military, it's not going to happen. We need to see some changes.
HUNT: All right. Virginia Congressman Suhas Subramanyam, thank you very much for being here. Really appreciate your time, sir.
SUBRAMANYAM: Thank you.
HUNT: All right. Coming up here, we've got some sad news today. We have new details on the sudden passing of an iconic actress.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CATHERINE O'HARA, ACTRES: It's good. Excuse me. Look, I have been awake for almost 60 hours. I'm tired and I'm dirty. I've been from Chicago to Paris to Dallas to -- where the hell am I?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Scranton.
O'HARA: I am trying to get home to my eight year old son. And now that I'm this close, you're telling me its hopeless?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:50:26]
HUNT: All right. We have some breaking and really devastating news. The legendary actress Catherine O'Hara has died at the age of 71. O'Hara won an Emmy in 2020 for best comedy actress as Moira Rose in "Schitt's Creek". She starred in "Beetlejuice". And of course, if you're a millennial like me, she was likely an icon of your childhood.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's it. I forgot to close the garage. That's it.
O'HARA: No, that's not it
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What else could we be forgetting?
O'HARA: Kevin!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: She was absolutely unforgettable. CNN entertainment reporter Lisa France joins us now. She interviewed O'Hara just last year. Lisa, let's -- let's talk about, I mean, what a life, what a career.
LISA RESPERS FRANCE, CNN ENTERTAINMENT REPORTER: What a career, Kasie. I mean, from SCTV in the 1970s to more recently, her incredible work in Seth Rogen's hilarious comedy series, "The Studio". I mean, her range was just incredible. "Home Alone", I mean, she gave generations so much incredible work.
And when I interviewed her last year, we had this moment when we talked about the fact that she said she still has kids. Well, she still had kids coming up to her saying, how could you leave your son? How could you forget Kevin?
And it's just a testament to what an amazing actress she was. And she was as lovely and as gracious as she appeared to be on screen. And she really just loved, loved, loved being an actress.
I interviewed her because she did a Super Bowl commercial for Michelob, and the commercial was with Willem Dafoe, and she had to learn how to play pickleball. And, Kasie, she said, I was really good at it. She's like, you know, here I got I got hired to do this gig, and it turns out I'm a tremendous pickleball player.
So, it was just such a delight, Kasie, such a delight. I cannot believe she has left us.
HUNT: As versatile in life as she was on the screen. I mean, the range is just incredible.
Lisa, stand by for me. I know everyone on the panel actually really would like to reminisce a little bit.
I mean, David Chalian, incredibly sweet post from Macaulay Culkin, who, of course, played Kevin. Mama, I thought we had time, I wanted more, I wanted to sit in a chair next to you, I heard you, I had so much more time to say I love you -- just the sweetest. I -- your reflections.
CHALIAN: He has the picture from the movie, but also the picture of them as adults, you know, he's an adult.
HUNT: Yeah, no, they clearly had a long relationship.
CHALIAN: I will say yes. Obviously, "Schitt's Creek" and "Home Alone", I get the iconic imagery. For me, it's the Christopher Guest movies and "Waiting for Guffman". If you have not Google and watch "Midnight at the Oasis" in the "Waiting for Guffman" audition scene, it is a classic. It's so good.
WILLIAMS: For me, and I actually think it's probably my favorite movie, if not "Beetlejuice". My God, she's just so good in that.
And I think more telling than anyone's favorite movie, a bunch of us were together for something prior to this, and when the news broke that we got it, we all across age groups and party affiliation were just like leveled by it. There are just people that transcend all of this that we fight about. And she was just a sort of a special.
HUNT: I know -- I want to -- I want to play a little moment of her, a little bit of her more recent material, since we saw her in home alone. This was her in "Schitt's Creek". Remember, fold in the cheese.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O'HARA: Next step is to fold in the cheese.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does that mean? What is fold in the cheese mean?
O'HARA: You fold it in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand that, but how? How do you fold it? Do you fold it in half like a piece of paper and drop it in the pot? Or what do you do?
O'HARA: David, I cannot show you everything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay, well, can you show me one thing?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Just an iconic mom on screen.
BEDINGFIELD: It's good. She's so funny, I mean, I -- so I also love "Home Alone". Watch it every year. Iconic. She's so funny, but also just brings so much heart.
And I was thinking about the scene where she plays the straight man to John Candy when they're in the -- in the back of the van, driving, he's like talking about the like, horrible experience he had in a funeral home. And he's trying to make her feel better. And she just -- she just -- she plays the straight man so effectively in that scene.
She's just unbelievably talented. It's such a loss.
LANZA: Just this last Christmas, my son and daughter watched "Home Alone" for the first time, so we heard them walking around yelling, "Kevin! Kevin!" all weekend. I was just like, okay, we get it.
WILLIAMS: My kids, my kids on loop, they watch it again. And watching something through your kids eyes that you grew up with.
BEDINGFIELD: Yes.
[16:55:00]
HUNT: I know it. Really. This was the first year my son watched it and really got it and wanted to watch it again and again. So I'm sure it's not the first time.
Lisa France, thank you very much for that.
Thank you to all of you for being here as well and for sharing your reflections here.
Don't forget, you can watch much more of THE ARENA tomorrow right here on CNN. THE ARENA SATURDAY will air at noon Eastern. Don't forget you can also stream THE ARENA live or catch up whenever you want to in the CNN app. Just scan that QR code below and you can also catch up by listening to THE ARENA's podcast, or follow the show on X and Instagram @TheArenaCNN.
But don't go anywhere. "THE LEAD" with Phil Mattingly starts after this quick break.
