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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt

Border Czar Announces End To Minnesota Immigration Operation; New: Multiple Gloves Found In Nancy Guthrie Case; Judge: Hegseth Unlawfully Retaliating Against Democratic Senator Mark Kelly. Aired 4- 5p ET

Aired February 12, 2026 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:01]

JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: So when it's caught early, it's easier to treat. And that's so important for people to remember.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Yeah. Really important.

Such an important story, Jacqueline. Thank you so much for reporting on that.

And THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now.

(MUSIC)

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's wonderful to have you with us on this Thursday.

As we come on the air, President Trump's aggressive immigration agenda faces its biggest challenge yet. The Department of Homeland Security headed for a partial shutdown after Democrats and the White House could not come to an agreement on changes to the way ICE operates.

As that happens, Border Czar Tom Homan today announced an end to the massive surge in immigration operations in Minnesota.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM HOMAN, BORDER CZAR: I have proposed and President Trump has concurred, that this surge operation conclude. A significant drawdown has already been underway this week and will continue through the next week to deliver on President Trump's promise for strong border security, mass deportation. Law enforcement officers drawing down from this surge operation will either return to their duty stations or be sent elsewhere to achieve just that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: That surprise announcement, coming after thousands of arrests and months of clashes between federal agents and protesters on the streets of Minneapolis those protests reaching a peak and inspiring national outrage following the fatal shooting of two American citizens, Renee Good and Alex Pretti, by ICE and CBP officers. Now, it seems that's all over. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. TIM WALZ (D), MINNESOTA: I talked to Mr. Homan after his press conference, and he assured me that they are going all the surges going, and they're going immediately. So as soon as they can pack their stuff, book a plane, move on. I would volunteer. We will help you get to the airport we will clear the roads to get you to the airport I will come over and pack your bags if that's what it takes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Minnesota Governor Tim Walz, you saw there today, is demanding federal compensation for what he described as economic damage resulting from the federal immigration operations in his state. The Minneapolis mayor, Jacob Frey, echoed that language. He tweeted this, quote, "This operation has been catastrophic for our neighbors and businesses. And now it's time for a great comeback," end quote.

Question now, what comes next? Homan today said the DHS will continue to have a presence in Minnesota and vowed to continue to enforce the president's agenda across the country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOMAN: But also say we are backing down from immigration enforcement or the promise of mass deportations. You are simply wrong. President Trump made a promise of mass deportation, and that's what this country is going to get.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right, let's get off the sidelines. Head into THE ARENA.

My panel is here. CNN political commentator, host of the "Off the Cuff" podcast, S.E. Cupp; CNN contributor, "New York Times" journalist Lulu Garcia-Navarro; former Biden White House communications director Kate Bedingfield; and former Trump campaign adviser David Urban. Both are, of course, CNN political commentators.

Welcome to all of you. It's great to have you today.

David, I want to start with you on this because, I mean this seems like capitulation on the part of the Trump administration. It took a minute, but this announcement that they are pulling up stakes, getting out of Minnesota seems fairly significant in terms of acknowledging that this has caused significant problems for them.

DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, Kasie. I think it's a refocusing of efforts. You heard Tom Homan say over and over, they're going to focus more on targeted enforcement. I think if you step back and look at why Trump was elected, what people put President Trump in there, secure the border, right? And go after bad hombres. That was kind of the promise on the campaign trail.

And what you were seeing play out in Minnesota was something that looked completely different than that. Now granted, sanctuary state, sanctuary cities were not cooperating. I think you had asked the mayor at one point in time why during the Obama administration, did they allow ICE agents in the jail, in the county jail there to cooperate on turnover? And then this administration, they're not -- he didn't have an answer for you.

And so, I think that this was a 80/20 issue, as we like to say, the president likes, right? Trump on immigration, 80 percent favorable, 20 percent unfavorable. The images you saw, the enforcement actions taking place in Minnesota flipped that on its head. And I think they were wise to kind of leave and go after more targeted enforcements.

Listen, they're still in the United States, there are over a million, you know, close to two million people that have deportation orders that are still awaiting to be -- to be sent home. There are something, you know, some 15,000 criminal aliens that have yet to be rounded up.

So, I think targeted enforcement, aggressive enforcement could still be the hallmark of this administration.

[16:05:01]

Just need to do it a little more -- in a little more targeted manner like Mr. Homan was saying.

HUNT: Kate Bedingfield, we obviously saw Democrats hold the line on Capitol Hill today on the changes they want to see from ICE. Obviously, immigration was a huge winning issue for President Trump in the last campaign. Do you think that events have fully given Democrats an advantage here? How do you think they should be playing their cards at this point?

KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I do think it's this these events have given Democrats an advantage, in part because the Trump administration so badly eroded their credibility in the way that they handled the images and the video that the entire world could see of these two killings and their initial responses from Kristi Noem, from Stephen Miller, from J.D. Vance to, you know, to call these victims domestic terrorists, to say you're not seeing what you're seeing on this -- on this video.

So I think, you know there was the right, you know, outrage, the sense of outrage from people about what they were seeing in their community there in Minnesota and then across the country. There was also outrage about the response from the Trump administration. So, I do think they have damaged their credibility on this issue, both through their tactics and on this question of credibility. But the other thing I think is really telling in terms of what we're seeing today, you know, you ask, is this capitulation? You know, we don't see Homan and we don't see any of the initial reporting, any concrete concessions that the Trump team feels they are getting. I mean, they are essentially just saying we're pulling up stakes and were leaving. Now, we'll see if that actually plays out.

But we know that it's very important to Trump in a negotiation to feel like he's able to say, I extracted XYZ concession. They're not getting any of that today. They clearly understand that this is a huge political problem for them. And they're leaving.

HUNT: Well, to that point, S.E., we can put up some polling. David mentioned that some of this immigration stuff has been a so-called 80/20 issue. This is not okay, 62 percent of Americans say that Trump sending immigration agents into cities has gone too far. Only 10 percent say that it has not gone far enough.

How do you see it?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't think there's any way around the fact that this was a political failure you can talk about what worked and what didn't tactically, but this was a huge political failure and maybe had the administration not been responsible for killing two American citizens, it would be -- it would be a different conversation.

But this was politically untenable. If you -- if you go to what Trump was saying just last week, he was asked, are you going to -- are you going to draw down troops in Minneapolis? He said absolutely not.

What changed between then and now? Polling numbers. Polling numbers show that in an election year, by the way, this was incredibly unpopular. And the political will that Trump had coming into office on the immigration issue had completely dissipated.

It wasn't just that they think he went too far. It's now that a majority of adults have an unfavorable view of ICE. They no longer see them as law enforcement. They put them in a separate category. He's lost independents completely. On the issue of immigration, he was once very strong on that issue. This was untenable.

And I'm sure he was hearing from Republicans, Republicans like Mike Lawler in New York who penned an op-ed in "The New York Times", of all places telling Trump to stop and reverse course. I'm sure he was hearing from Republicans all over the country in tough spots who are looking ahead at their elections and thinking, I can't get reelected if we're still doing this.

HUNT: Well, and the governor, Lulu, Tim Walz alluded to this, talked about -- he called it the albatross around Trump's neck.

Let's take a look at that and I'll get you to weigh in on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALZ: I think, as I said again, it became very clear to the administration especially after the murders of Renee and Alex and the horrific actions of these agents on the ground that an issue the president saw himself as being strong, certainly politically, has eroded into a albatross around their neck.

And so, I think in my take was they knew they needed to get out of here but in very Trumpian fashion, they needed to save face.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HUNT: Lulu, did they actually save face?

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: No. This was more than a political miscalculation. It was a political disaster. Let's just roll back and remember how this all started. He sent thousands of troops surging into a midwestern city and state, because he thought he was going to get visuals of Somalis being rounded up over a fraud investigation. And instead, what he got was the people of Minnesota and Minneapolis in particular, standing up to this administration and basically becoming heroes to many people all around the country.

[16:10:00]

And, you know, what people saw was a disaster unfolding in that city, people being wrenched out of their homes, children being sort of taken away and put into incarceration, you know, all the images are emblazoned now on peoples mind. And this is fundamentally shifted. I think the way they see the immigration issue, the way they see mass deportation, and certainly the way they see this administration.

HUNT: Well, you know, one of the things, of course, that really stands out here is how Republicans in Washington have or haven't been willing to take stands against Donald Trump over the years, but also particularly on this issue. S.E., you talked a little bit about this.

Senator Rand Paul today on Capitol Hill, pressed the commissioner of the CBP on whether he was willing to admit that mistakes were made. And, of course, it was a CBP agent in the killing of Alex Pretti.

Let's watch a little bit of that exchange from the hill today

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): It's clearly evident that the public trust has been lost. To restore trust in ICE and Border Patrol, they must admit their mistakes. If you don't admit, admit that there's a problem that were not going to get anywhere. Is yelling at ICE officers or Border Patrol, is that a form of domestic assault on the officers?

RODNEY SCOTT, CBP CHIEF: No, sir.

PAUL: Is filming of ICE or Border Patrol either an assault or a crime in any way, Mr. Scott?

SCOTT: No, sir.

PAUL: Mr. Lyons

SCOTT: No, sir.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: I mean, David Urban, you know, obviously, Paul is a libertarian very clearly. But what he was saying, there is not typically at odds with where conservatives would land on something like this in terms of individual freedom. Why do you think he's one of the only people that's willing to do this so publicly?

URBAN: You know, Rand Paul has always been out there on an island by himself. But you know, there is a continuum, right? Theres a continuum of protesting and it slides into interference at some point. There are plenty of people who are protesting, you know, legally and doing it well within their right. And then there's some people who are interfering, and that's where the issue becomes. And you had these, you know, engagements with the ICE officers and CBP, some of which became deadly.

We need to make sure that doesn't happen again in the future, need better training. But you know, Rand Paul's always out to be a contrarian on this. I do think that there needs to be better training in these instances. And perhaps, you know, the folks on the ground need to be not so engaged in being in these peoples face.

There's a fine line between protesting and interfering. And in these cases that we saw, I think that line was crossed in a lot of cases.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think the big problem here is that they sent in Mr. Bovino and they liked what they were seeing. He had an entire social media presence. He was telling them to break windows, to break faces. And they like that pugilism. They were blasting it out on all their social media and it worked until it didn't, until people ended up dead.

And so, you can talk about the fact that this was a miscalculation. This was a political sort of overreach. But at the end of the day, this was policies that were enacted that actually led to this. And this is the administration actually taking into account and having to clean up their own mess

BEDINGFIELD: And I do think if I could just say quickly, I do think that Republicans, particularly in moderate districts, in purple districts who are not critical, who are not publicly critical of the administration on this, are going to pay a price for it in November. I think this is an issue that has burned itself into the psyche of moderate voters, independents as we were just discussing, who have moved away from Trump in the wake of, of this. And I think that Republicans who are -- who are not willing to publicly criticize the administration and be direct about this, I do think are going to pay a price in November for it.

HUNT: S.E., you want a quick last word?

CUPP: Yeah. I mean, there's just such a contrast between what we saw from Tim -- Tom Homan today and the, you know, FAFO attitude that a lot of the Trump administration had and was signaling leading up to this and throughout it, there was this bravado and machismo about it from Bovino, you know, on down, that's gone. And that is for one simple reason. This was a political disaster.

HUNT: All right. Coming up next here in THE ARENA, some potential new leads in the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie. Investigators just confirming they've found new evidence connected to the case. Plus, the senator versus the secretary. What's next after a federal

judge's scathing ruling today in the administration's battle with Democrat Mark Kelly?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): This president has a habit of doubling down on shitty ideas, on bad precedent, on breaking the law, on violating people's con -- constitutional rights of Americans.

[16:15:04]

He doubles down on it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HUNT: We're seeing some movement in the search for Nancy Guthrie, 12 days after her disappearance. This morning, a white tent was put up directly outside Nancy's front door. It was taken down shortly after.

This morning, TMZ announcing that they had received a second email from the person who claims to know the identity of Guthrie's kidnaper, the same person who requested one bitcoin in exchange for the information.

[16:20:00]

As that happens, the sheriff's office now says they're investigating several items of evidence that have been recovered including multiple gloves.

Yesterday, "The New York Post" was there as investigators recovered a glove about a mile and a half from Nancy's home no word yet if it was tied to this case. And this all comes as Nancy's daughter, the today show anchor Savannah Guthrie shared this old home video of her mother saying that the family, quote, will never give up on her.

CNN senior national correspondent Ed Lavandera joins us now. He is live outside Nancy Guthrie's home.

Ed, neighbors now being asked to examine any security camera footage from January. What more are we learning?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. There's some effort on a couple different fronts in terms of asking neighbors once again to focus on finding some video. So I'll run down through some of the requests that are coming out the Pima County sheriff's office said today that they\re asking anyone within a two mile radius of Nancy Guthrie's home to look for videos on their video systems for anything suspicious a car or anything not just around the time of her abduction, but from January 1st to February 2nd.

So, a month. That's obviously a kind of a monumental request in terms of the amount of video evidence that that could generate. But that is for a two-mile radius around her home. And then we've learned of another alert that neighbors have been told about. And this one is focused on a more specific area of the neighborhood that is one of -- the kind of primary entryways that could potentially have been a way that this suspect might have driven into the neighborhood or out of the neighborhood, but that is a stretch of about a mile or so.

And that request is focused on two specific dates in January, one of them being January 11th which is almost three weeks before her abduction from 9:00 p.m. to midnight. And then the second request as part of that alert is focused on this -- on the Saturday before she was abducted. But January 31st. But in the early or the mid-morning hours, from 9:00 to 11:30. So that's a little bit of a of a different time frame there. But it's interesting the specificity that we're seeing in this second alert that we've learned about.

But clearly investigators now 12 days into the search for Nancy Guthrie, that they are continuing to try to cobble together as much evidence as possible. And we do know that over the last 48 hours since the FBI released the video images of the suspect at the front door of Nancy Guthrie's home, that there has been an avalanche of requests or tips and phone-ins to authorities with tips about and clues as to who that person might have been. So, all of that continues, and really some intense work in terms of trying to get as much video evidence as possible -- Kasie.

HUNT: All right. Ed Lavandera on scene for us -- Ed, thank you very much for that report.

Joining us now in THE ARENA, CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller, and criminologist and behavioral analyst, Casey Jordan.

Welcome to both of you.

So, John, my understanding is you have some new information. Investigators are now looking into a white van? What more can you tell us about this?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: That is a report that they got from neighbors. And among the things they have asked neighbors to look for in their videos in that immediate area is a white van. But I want to be very careful here because the white van is not all they're looking for. They want to have people look for any suspicious vehicles because they don't want to be focused on any one particular thing for reasons that, A. that could not be involved. B, there could be multiple vehicles involved.

But I think what they're doing is expanding the crowdsourcing by asking people to look for these dates. January 11th, January 31st. One of them of course, the date of the kidnapping would be highly relevant.

The January 11th one seems to be the date when they heard reports of suspicious vehicles. So, the question is, was somebody doing pre- operational surveillance, you know three weeks before this? And could you find a vehicle on your camera, on your Ring doorbell, on something and then see the same vehicle in the same area on the day of the kidnapping earlier? That's what they're looking for.

HUNT: And on this letter, we obviously -- we talked before, TMZ received this letter yesterday that demanded a bitcoin -- one bitcoin for information on the kidnapper worth about $66,000. TMZ now says they received a second letter from the same person that came in today. If this person was legitimate why wouldn't they just go to the FBI? I mean, there's already a $50,000 reward being offered.

MILLER: Well, the $50,000 reward being offered by the FBI, and they'll accept tips anonymously obviously.

[16:25:07]

But to get the reward, you're going to have to -- and particularly if you, you know, may end up becoming a witness in the case, it's going to be apparent who you are. This person seems to want bitcoin, seems to want it, you know sent through those channels and the question is, in the second note, do they give more information, more specifics, something that someone could actually vet as to either how they know or what they know because nobody's going to pay up front for information that may or may not ever come after. You know, you send that bitcoin.

HUNT: So, Casey, the authorities have also announced that they have several pieces of evidence and included among that gloves. Can you help us understand? I mean, how common is it if someone commits a crime for there to then be clothing like -- like these items left behind?

CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST AND BEHAVIORAL ANALYST: All depends on the sophistication of your perpetrator. And in this particular case, we already have a sense that at least the guy on the porch not terribly sophisticated. And we've been talking for two days about how, you know, he was surprised to see a camera but did not leave instead went and picked some flowers and tried to cover the camera lens with them. I mean, a sophisticated burglar home invader carries a can of spray paint or a piece of tape to stick on camera lenses.

So, it doesn't surprise me that the same guy on the porch could, if fleeing the scene of a crime, just start casting things out of the car window into the desert along the side of the road and the whole point of. Of course, wearing gloves is so that you don't leave trace evidence behind. And yet it's highly likely that there will be trace evidence inside those gloves, or even botanic materials on the outside of the gloves from where he actually picked the flowers. So I don't think we're talking about sophisticated people.

But that said, it would make sense that the gloves would belong to them because we, apart from just having beginners luck perhaps, we are just consternated that we are 12 days in and still don't know who the guy on the porch is. But with all this new video evidence coming forward, especially with all the neighbors looking through their camera footage, I have no doubt we're going to close in on this soon.

HUNT: And, Casey, when you consider all of that, I mean, we saw this white tent go up in front of Nancy Guthrie's house. This is, of course, 12 days in. Why would -- why would the authorities do something like this? I mean, how do you explain this?

JORDAN: In a nutshell, I would say they're a little tardy to the party. All of this should have been happening days ago, from day one. We should have been asking the neighbors within a two mile radius to be checking their cameras. We should have been walking up and down all of the arteries, the permeable neighborhood ways in and ways out of this neighborhood.

We knew from the second day that there had been some report of trespassing by a neighbor earlier in the month. I don't know why that wasn't followed up on, but the tent today, apparently, they're processing potential evidence on the scene. That's a good thing, because things can often go bad in the process of transporting evidence to a lab depends on the evidence, but we're seeing a flurry of activity in the last few days. It should have really happened.

Again, they know so much more than we do perhaps earlier in the investigation. It seems like things are being taken very seriously now. The video footage of the guy on the porch was an absolute game changer. And the new video that we think could be related, that TMZ found today also looks very promising. You know, we've got some -- a guy two miles away or sorry, five miles away, has a backpack with reflective tape on it. Very similar to the one with the guy on the porch. And I would not be at all surprised if those two people in both pieces of video are related.

HUNT: All right. Casey Jordan, John Miller, thank you both very much for your time. I really appreciate it.

All right. We are going to watch for any developments in this ongoing story. The co-host of "America's Most Wanted" standing by to join us live later on this hour.

But first, up next in THE ARENA, Pete Hegseth now responding to that scorching ruling by a federal judge today. What he's saying about his attempt to punish Senator Mark Kelly for that so-called "illegal orders" video.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:33:52]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Are you concerned that the administration could try to indict you and the five other Democratic lawmakers as soon as tomorrow?

SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): I understand who these people are. I think you understand who they are. I wouldn't put anything past them. Of course. You know this president has a habit of doubling down on shitty ideas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: That was Senator Mark Kelly earlier today, reacting to questions about a possible indictment from the Trump administration.

It comes as a federal judge shut down Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth's attempt to punish Kelly over that social media video where he and five other Democratic lawmakers urged service members to refuse illegal orders. The judge ruling that Hegseth's attempt to pursue administrative action against the retired navy captain, was unlawfully retaliatory.

Secretary Hegseth tweeted in response to the ruling, quote, "This will be immediately appealed. Sedition is sedition, 'captain'", with the word captain in quotes.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz joins us now.

Katelyn, always good to see you.

Can you walk us through the judge's decision here?

[16:35:02]

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Kasie, the main finding of the judge, this is Judge Richard Leon in the D.C. federal court at the trial level, he's saying that the Pentagon here, they are trying to trample Senator Mark Kelly's First Amendment protections and his rights to free speech.

Now, the reason that the judge is looking at this is because at the beginning of January, after that video had been put out by Kelly and five other members of Congress, all former military or intelligence community members, in that video, they had said, and Kelly specifically said, you can refuse illegal orders. He's speaking to members of the military and the intelligence community, essentially saying that he would have their back if they wanted to refuse an order of the president, if they believed it to be unlawful, something like those double tap strikes, those sorts of issues.

In this situation, though, the Pentagon wanted to censure Mark Kelly, and they wanted to do it because he's a retired naval captain and also because they are very unhappy that he is trying to encourage people they say, to disobey the chain of command in the military, that he's encouraging disobedience across the military. The judge is stepping in there and saying, the Pentagon can't do this to a retired member of the military. You can't censure someone like this and also try and demote them, potentially looking back at a years old file from when Kelly left the Navy.

But also, the judge is saying, you can't ask us to allow this when you're talking about a member of Congress who's just out there saying what they believe, reminding something that is, is true for members of the military, that they do have the ability to refuse orders if they believe them to be illegal and you can't do it especially because Kelly is an oversight, a person in a position of oversight over Congress.

So this is a very strong ruling in favor of Mark Kelly. It stops the Pentagon from censuring him and from putting things in his file related to this particular video that don't give up the ship video that Kelly taped in November and the judge is giving Kelly quite something to stand on as they still look and see whether there could be additional action on the criminal prosecution side. We know the Justice Department wanted to charge Kelly with a crime as well as the others in that video, and they were not successful earlier this week.

The judge saying that in this situation, the Pentagon should not be treating him like this. And as a retired veteran, retired veterans themselves deserve more respect from the government -- Kasie.

HUNT: All right. Katelyn Polantz, thank you very much for that reporting our panel is back and David Urban you obviously have a storied career in service yourself. You saw the way Pete Hegseth addressed Mark Kelly as captain in quotes here. You heard Katelyn's reporting on the judge's ruling.

Where do you come down on this?

URBAN: Well, listen, unfortunately, I do believe in the First Amendment. And I do believe in Mark Kelly's rights to do this. But the only thing that I think is shitty is not what Pete Hegseth and the administration is trying to do is rather Mark Kelly and his five colleagues trying to politicize and stir up the U.S. military and military members in an incredibly political way.

I mean there was no -- there was no call for this. There was no hue and cry. This is -- this is a really dumb idea. They should be ashamed of themselves.

And so I think the First Amendment protects their stupidity, but they should be really ashamed. And Mark Kelly shouldn't be out there thumping his chest. It's a dumb idea.

If you're -- if you're in the military, everybody knows you don't have to follow illegal orders. Every private, every E-1, every newly enlisted soldier knows that all the way up to general officers. So, what they were trying to do is politicize the military in an overt fashion, and they should be ashamed. He should not be thumping his chest for political gain. He should be hanging his head in shame.

HUNT: And is the Trump administration, David, not essentially doing the same thing, politicizing the military by using the apparatus of the federal government to go after these guys?

URBAN: You know what? You know what? You know, Kasie, I think they have every right to be upset here. I do think the First Amendment protects them however stupid it is. There are certain things that when you're a retired person and retired member of the military, like Mark Kelly, he may be able to be reduced in rank or have his pay docked at some point because he's still receiving his military pension. So I'm not quite sure -- you know, I'm not an expert at the nuances of the pay structure when you're retired or what happens.

I think it was a dumb idea. I think Mark Kelly should be embarrassed and ashamed and, look, it's his First Amendment right to do so.

[16:40:00]

But I think it's just -- it's shameful.

HUNT: Well -- yeah. Jump in.

BEDINGFIELD: Well, I just I think it's pretty clearly Trump and the Trump administration who thinks this was a political fight they wanted to have. Otherwise, why react in the way they did? I mean, these members of Congress were simply stating, as you said, David, they were simply stating a fact that is known to every member of the military. They are not required to follow illegal orders.

If Trump didn't want to make this a big political fight, he should have simply ignored it or said, yeah, couldn't agree more and moved on. I mean, they're clearly --

URBAN: Kate, I think --

BEDINGFIELD: -- the ones who wanted to have the fight.

URBAN: I think they were trying to impute that something that the Trump administration, that the Trump administration were war criminals and they were doing things that were illegal. That's just -- that's below the belt. That is way outside of the anything that's even close.

And so, for them to do so is shameful. They shouldn't do it. You don't -- you don't mess around in these waters. You don't play lightly.

For these guys to do it, it's shameful. They know better. They shouldn't do it. Shitty idea, Mark Kelly.

BEDINGFIELD: I think they were expressing concern about the fact that Congress had not been briefed and relevant committees of jurisdiction had not been briefed on potential military action --

URBAN: Kate, there's a way to do that in oversight.

BEDINGFIELD: And so -- and so --

URBAN: You do that in oversight. You do it in oversight hearing.

BEDINGFIELD: If Trump wanted to -- if Trump didn't want to make this a big political fight then he wouldn't have taken the bait.

URBAN: Shame on them.

HUNT: S.E. Cupp, can jump in here?

CUPP: I mean, if this was a political fight that Trump and Hegseth wanted, they lost big time. Theres a thing in in elections that you can't buy its name ID. And Trump and Hegseth just gave Mark Kelly a man who, by his own admission, is looking to run for president in 2028, he's seriously considering it. They just gave him such a gift. This one-two punch, I'm just talking the raw politics of it -- the one-two punch this week of the failure to get a grand jury to indict, right? A grand jury that should be able to indict a ham sandwich. Regular people did not agree that these people should be indicted.

And this judge saying, yeah, of course, Mark Kelly has First Amendment rights. James Madison says, duh. I mean, this was so stupid.

Whatever you think of the merits of what these lawmakers said again, they just stated a fact. Of course, it's protected by the First Amendment. And I think, I think Trump thought he'd win this fight. Pete Hegseth thought they'd win this fight. And look tough against Mark Kelly.

But let me tell you, Mark Kelly, his face and name are splashed all over the you know, cable news networks this week. And they have been in the weeks since the Trump administration tried to do this, he just vaulted to the top I think of a lot of people's Democratic nominee lists.

And let me tell you, I know a lot of Arizona politicos and operatives. He's very popular there. Okay? He's popular with Republicans. So, this was Mark Kelly's best week ever.

HUNT: Lulu, one thing one piece of this may also be -- I mean, we know that Donald Trump has been focused on what a president can and can't do with the military since the beginning of his first term. This is something that he has really focused on. You know, he -- the way that he views the kind of power that he should be able to have as U.S. president, I'm thinking, too, that he also, in the case of other people, he's gone after been very public about what he wants to happen.

I mean, what do you think the chances are that they're going to continue to try to indict these people, that they might try to do something in other jurisdictions, et cetera?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I mean, they might try and do it. We've seen them -- I mean, this is a playbook that they've sort of rolled out over and over again. But what you're seeing here is, you know, judges and I think the general public saying that this is just not what they'd like to see in the administration.

I mean, you know, to David Urban's point, you can dislike what they said. You can disagree with it. That's America. You know, that's politics.

But when you see the government try and use its power against people's First Amendment rights, and also people who are duly elected and legitimately elected people, and also someone like Mark Kelly who is not only someone who has served his country admirably, but is a former astronaut. I just don't think it's going to go their way. And I think it just hurts them instead of helps them.

HUNT: David Urban, as we conclude here, Thom Tillis, who's a Republican, he's -- obviously he's retiring. So, you know, in our system, that seems to free up what people are willing to say but he said this, quote, political lawfare waged by either side undermines Americas criminal justice system, which is the gold standard of the world. Thankfully, in this instance, a jury saw the attempted indictments for what they really were. Political lawfare is not normal, not acceptable, and needs to stop.

I take your point. You said you support the First Amendment you think that it was stupid of these people to do it? Do you think that the Trump administration was engaged in lawfare that was inappropriate, as Tillis says here?

[16:45:05]

URBAN: Listen, I think Thom Tillis is entitled his opinion. I think in this instance the president felt he got punched in the nose and was punching back. You can call it what you like. I -- again, I support their right to say stupid shit like they did.

I think it's unseemly. I think it's shameful for someone with a distinguished career like Senator Kelly, who knows far better to get involved in these kind of things, to do so. And so, I don't want to -- I wish the folks would be more on these people that did this.

They know way better than to do these things. A lot of people hold them in high regard, and in this instance, they really fell very, very short of the regard they're held by many people. It's just wrong. It's shameful, dumb.

HUNT: All right. Coming up next here in THE ARENA, the co-host of "America's Most Wanted" is with us live, as investigators sift through thousands of tips and some possible new leads in the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie.

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[16:50:27]

HUNT: We continue to follow all the developments in the search for Nancy Guthrie. This morning, 12 days after she was reported missing, we saw authorities temporarily put up a white tent directly outside Nancy's front door. You can see it there.

Investigators have recovered several pieces of evidence, including multiple gloves one of which was found about a mile and a half from Nancy's home yesterday.

Joining us now in THE ARENA is Callahan Walsh, co-host of "America's Most Wanted' and executive director for the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

Callahan, thanks very much for being here.

What is standing out to you right now, especially -- I mean, if you think about the weather in Tucson, Arizona, you'd think that a glove a mile and a half from the house maybe would have stood out before 12 days from now. I mean, how are you thinking about what we're learning here?

CALLAHAN WALSH, CO-HOST, "AMERICA'S MOST WANTED": Well, it does seem like the investigation has hit a lull. You know, we've seen these spurs of activity and then, you know, again, were having this lull in activity. It seems like the investigation is going in multiple directions at this point. They're intensifying the search at the crime scene. They're intensifying the search around the crime scene. And of course, taking in and sifting through all those thousands and thousands of tips that have been coming in.

And that many tips, I think is a good problem to have. You'd rather have more tips than not enough tips. And so, really, their job is to track down every little avenue that they can in hopes that they find that key that unlocks the door to this case.

HUNT: TMZ reported receiving a second letter. Remember, we were talking earlier in the week about the first letter that demanded one bitcoin in exchange for information about the kidnapper. Now, there's a second letter there.

I mean, is there a world where authorities would ever consider paying for that information if the person provided something that suggests it's credible?

WALSH: I don't think the FBI would pay for that information unless they did provide something that was just incredible. Something that guaranteed the safe return of Nancy Guthrie. But at this point, you know -- and I'm not so sure the FBI holds much merit in these new ransom letters. One bitcoin is not worth all that much. I think it was $67,500 dollars. The FBI is offering a $50,000 reward. Why not be the hero and provide that information directly to the FBI and get the $50,000 instead of extorting this family?

So, I really don't think they're holding these new letters with much regard, but they have to track down everything, right? I mean, this is somebody that's out there trying to extort this, this family for money. And so, it does take attention away from the FBI, from the real case. But again, they really have to sniff out every lead that they can.

HUNT: And what kind of leads, in your experience, you know, having paid so close attention to so many of these cases, are they able to get from something like a glove that a potential kidnaper has thrown out the window of the car, driving away from the home?

WALSH: Right. Well, there's quite, quite a bit of information that you could get from one of these gloves. First of all, determining what type of material it was, whether it was the nitrile or latex, that can help narrow down who might have bought a glove like this. There also may be DNA of the potential kidnapper in the glove or Nancy's DNA. We know that there was blood at the scene of the crime that would pinpoint this glove. Back to that crime scene.

And even if the individual had double gloved, as many people had pointed out, that oftentimes, you know, when you have one of these latex or nitrile gloves, oftentimes you blow into it to inflate it, to put it on. So even if it was a double glove over another one, there's possible saliva, DNA in there as well.

HUNT: You, of course, Callahan, in your professional work have spent so much time with families of missing people. And, of course, children, many cases when you think about it, I mean, this is now the 12th day for this family.

I mean, what -- what would you say to them? Do you have any advice or words of wisdom as they, you know, they still got to wake up every morning to this terrible reality.

WALSH: Well, number one, they have to keep hope alive you know, and not knowing is the hardest part.

[16:55:00]

My brother went missing at six years old, and my parents always said that not knowing was the hardest part, but they have to keep hope alive.

There's a chance that we can get Nancy Guthrie back. They need to stay strong. They need to stay vigilant.

Savannah has done a great job pleading with the public, pleading with potential kidnapers getting her message out there. And she needs to continue to do that. Humanize her mother. You know, continue to spur the public on and providing these tips.

You know, it really is about not giving up. Law enforcement isn't going to be giving up. We're not going to be giving up. And I'm sure the Guthrie family isn't giving up either. That tip will come in. Law enforcement will find that information, and we'll get to the bottom of this case.

HUNT: All right. Callahan Walsh, thank you very much. Really appreciate your time.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HUNT: Thank you for being with us.

Jake Tapper is standing by for "THE LEAD".

And, Jake, I know you're back from Arizona, although of course, the search for Nancy Guthrie is still a top story.