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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
DOJ: No More Epstein Files Will Be Released; One Dead, Multiple Injured In Shooting At Rhode Island Ice Rink; Sheriff: Guthrie Family Has Been Cleared As Possible Suspects; "Clown Show": Obama On Trump's Racist Post Of Him & Wife. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired February 16, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:01]
GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, I think we'll learn more hopefully in the next few hours from law enforcement about their response and what happened inside. But again, at least four people were injured. At least one person is dead.
And we can now report that the gun -- the gunman, the shooter is also dead -- Boris.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Gloria Pazmino, Steven Moore, thank you so much for that.
We have much more on our breaking news coming up.
"THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT" starts right now.
(MUSIC)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Welcome to THE ARENA. Kasie Hunt is off today. I'm Abby Phillip.
And right now, Congress is in possession of an Epstein list. And it's not making everyone happy.
Over the weekend, almost two months since their deadline passed for it to do so, the Department of Justice sent the Judiciary Committee letters claiming to have released all of the Epstein files in its possession. Included in that letter is a list of, quote, "politically exposed persons," end quote.
It names hundreds of prominent people who appear in Epstein files, regardless of the context. And to give you a sense of how broad this list is it encompasses everyone from Donald Trump and Bill Clinton, who both deny wrongdoing to the late Princess Diana, Elvis Presley and Michael Jackson.
Now, this comes on the heels of Attorney General Pam Bondi fiery, to put it mildly, testimony that did very little to silence the criticism from President Trump's own party over how he's handled this issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TIM DILLON, HOST, "THE TIM DILLON SHOW"/SATURDAY: Pam Bondi he or she is crashing out, as the kids would say, crashing out about why she is not indicted any of the billionaires, kings, prime ministers, ex- presidents that are on the Epstein list.
MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R), FORMER GEORGIA CONGRESSWOMAN: Biggest political miscalculation in Donald Trump's career was calling this a hoax. Fighting the release of it.
REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): He's still in with the Epstein class. This is the Epstein administration.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Now today, Republican Congresswoman Nancy Mace asked the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York to provide her with the unredacted versions of the document detailing its investigation into Epstein's potential coconspirators. Now, Mace says that she has viewed the document at DOJ, but that version contained heavy redactions. She wrote, quote, "The truth is in those files, we are getting it one way or another," end quote.
Let's get off the sidelines and head into THE ARENA. My panel is here in THE ARENA. Host of "Juan Manuel Benitez Wants to Know" podcast, Juan Manuel Benitez, senior writer at the National Review, Noah Rothman, executive committee chair for the New York state Democratic committee, Christine Quinn, and reporter at "The Federalist," Brianna Lyman.
Noah, this list of politically sensitive people, it seems not responsive. I mean, there seem to be a lot that's left unsaid here. And then even when you look at what Nancy Mace is saying that even when they went into the DOJ, there were still heavy redactions. Why would that be the case?
NOAH ROTHMAN, SENIOR WRITER, NATIONAL REVIEW: Why wouldn't it be the case? What have we seen over the course of the last couple of weeks, except an abuse of this process, an abuse of the rule of law in this country. We are making new victims out of what? This crime.
Because there are individuals here who are not investigated by the FBI or not charged with a crime, who are being associated with this individual merely on the suspicion that they are a politically connected individual, which is the language that Congress used and did not explore it very, very well, did not define it very well.
So, we have now people like Ro Khanna who are mentioning names just because they're associated with this individual six names, four of whom had no connection at all with the Epstein files, with Jeffrey Epstein, and are having their lives ruined over. Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett -- Republicans do this, too -- Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett, naming somebody whose name happens to be Jeffrey Epstein. The poor guy was just born with the wrong name and is now having his.
PHILLIP: This is -- this is not related to the redactions. This is related to something she said earlier. ROTHMAN: We are not -- this is -- the calls for not redacting these
documents is the source of this problem and it was Chuck Schumer and it was it was Nancy Mace, and it was all these congress people who happen to be the thirstiest, most media starved members.
PHILLIP: The law, like they passed Congress. They're a co-equal branch of government. They passed a law. The law says, you got to release it all. Republicans and Democrats virtually unanimously said this is what they want to do.
So, who is the DOJ to then say we don't think this is prudent? We're not going to do it.
CHRISTINE QUINN, PRESIDENT AND CEO, WIN: Right. The law is the law. They need to follow it. It's two months. They haven't followed it. They are over-redacting people. We don't even know who that may be connected.
They've not redacted, in numerous cases, people who are the victims of these crimes. And then in the most recent release, to muddy waters, we're putting out names of people like Cher who just happened to be mentioned in one email to make it even more confusing.
And then you bring in the members of congress, as you said, equal branch of government, and they're still seeing things that are redacted. When they were brought in to see the unredacted list.
[16:05:04]
And it takes you back time and again to the question, who is Donald Trump -- who is the Department of Justice covering for? And if they're covering for no one, put it out there.
PHILLIP: So, Brianna, I know you're not going to appreciate what "The New York Times" editorial board has to say, but I'll read it anyway.
(LAUGHTER)
PHILLIP: Americans should not accept vague excuses for protecting the identities of Mr. Epstein's associates. A two-tiered justice system that coddles the powerful and victimizes the vulnerable is a violation of American values. The survivors in that hearing room deserved an apology. More than that, they deserved the truth about Mr. Epstein and his friends, unspun and fully exposed.
First of all, I -- just putting aside where this is coming from, I think the premise here seems common sense. And also, I mean, they're referring to Pam Bondi's performance last week in which she seemed entirely dismissive of what the victims still see as a need for justice again, everything DOJ does, it seems to be in the interest of protecting these so-called innocent people who are just caught up as opposed to helping the actual women, the victims of Epstein's crimes.
BRIANNA LYMAN, REPORTER, THE FEDERALIST: Yeah, and I actually -- so I think to Noah's point, there's definitely good reason to say we need to at least use a little bit of prudence when we're deciding what names to release. But that being said, I talked to a lot of conservatives, and they are just as mad as those on the left at Pam Bondi over her handling, not necessarily Donald Trump, but at Pam Bondi.
And I think that a few things can be true at once. I think we're having this conversation about Epstein today because president Trump was one of the only politicians who listened to his voting base in 2024 when they rallied around Epstein. And then part, there are voters who did vote for Donald Trump because they want transparency, and everyone deserves transparency about this.
I do think that there is absolutely justification to be critical of Pam Bondi, in particular of her handling of this, because Ghislaine Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein, they weren't trafficking children to imaginary ghosts. They were being trafficked to somewhere. Some people were involved in this. And while to Noah's point, we can definitely need and use scrutiny so that we don't get innocent people swept up into this, what has been going on for a year? And are we going to wait another year and still not have any names?
So, I think the question a lot of conservatives have is at what point will we see legitimate accountability?
ROTHMAN: I think the question I have -- I'm sorry --
(CROSSTALK).
JUAN MANUEL BENITEZ, PROFESSOR OF LOCAL JOURNALISM, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: I would say, yeah, go ahead.
ROTHMAN: Just the question that I have is we are now again making revictimizing individuals who are not victimized in the first place. And the assumption here is that prosecutors aren't doing what they love to do most which is to charge famous people with crimes that can stick as opposed to the more Occam's razor explanation, which is that this has been investigated thoroughly for the better part of a decade, and the criminal allegations that could be charged have been charged. What's that -- what we're doing now is not prudent investigatory work. It is a witch hunt. It's a moral panic.
PHILLIP: Juan?
BENITEZ: I think we need to take a step back, because who is this serving? We don't know the truth. We have some names we have a lot of gossip. But at the end of the day, there's no evidence that we can look at and we can see some prosecutions and we can see some people charged. And right now, this is just a distraction and the only outcome out of all this is that Americans are going to lose faith in the Justice Department that is showing extreme incompetence with the handling of these documents.
PHILLIP: Can I ask just -- let me -- let me just see a show of hands at the table here who believes that, as Noah has suggested, the DOJ across Democrat and Republican administrations has done everything in their power to charge anyone who could be charged in the Epstein saga thus far? Do you believe that? QUINN: No.
PHILLIP: You believe that?
ROTHMAN: I would be surprised if this -- the hard see conspiracy theory that's being bandied about here has some substance to it.
PHILLIP: So, so, yes?
ROTHMAN: Which is that there are individuals who deserve to be charged --
PHILLIP: So you think they've done -- you think they've done it all?
ROTHMAN: I think they've done what they could reasonably consider would be successfully prosecuted.
PHILLIP: What about you?
BENITEZ: Yeah, I don't know.
PHILLIP: I think --
BENITEZ: They have all the information.
PHILLIP: I think this is the challenge here, is that not only do I think a lot of the American people feel like perhaps what these two do and maybe you do or whatever, but the victims do as well. And here's -- let me just play. This is one of the victims talking about -- this is on Sunday on CNN, talking about where the investigation should go from here.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LIZ STEIN, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: The most recent release of files is definitely not an ending, but it's a starting point for us. You know, every page that I've looked at has some kind of investigative lead. So, I think that this should be the beginning of an investigation into these crimes. And we haven't seen that yet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: You know, one thing I haven't heard the DOJ say Noah is and Pam Bondi didn't say this. I haven't heard Todd Blanche say this, is that we've gone through our own investigatory process.
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And we've made sure that there were no leads that weren't followed through on. There were no investigations that were dropped. I guess I just haven't heard from the inside of DOJ that they are really auditing themselves in this process and I think that's what the victims are saying, is that we're seeing leads all over the place where is the proof that they've been run down? ROTHMAN: Well, that's sort of the problem with releasing these
documents without being across from the process. And I'm not across from it. I don't know, and I don't know what the Biden Justice Department did. This is not something that just happened in the Trump years.
So I don't know what I don't know. However, this is why we didn't release, for example, when we released the JFK documents, the last of the JFK documents. There was a lot of suspicion that this was going to, you know, really have some meat to it. And it did, it had some evidence that there was KGB elements, that there were CIA elements. And if you tug on these threads, they go nowhere. And they drove a lot of people crazy.
And the reason they were never released is because they go nowhere and they drive a lot of people crazy. I think that has a lot to do with this. And we're also going to see as a result of this, I feel significantly less cooperation with federal law enforcement in the future from individuals who feel like -- well, the Justice Department could just release whatever I give them at any given moment, if it's politically expedient for the government. That's not a great precedent to say.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: That has not -- I don't know. I mean, we have to go to another story, but that actually is not what happened here. The DOJ didn't just release this willy nilly. A whole act of Congress happened, both houses of Congress voted on this. So that's not a small step that's a real significant thing that indicates there's a great amount of public interest in knowing what's in these documents.
But as I mentioned, we do need to stand by here because we want to get to some breaking news out of Rhode Island, where there has been a deadly shooting at a hockey rink.
CNN's Mark Morales is joining us now.
Mark, what do we know?
MARK MORALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. Well, from what we've been able to obtain, there's been one person who was killed and four others injured. We know that the gunman died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. And we also know that the nature of the shooting itself was domestic, meaning that the gunman had a prior relationship with the victim. And we're still trying to sort that out preliminarily in these situations. As you know, investigations are happening and people are really trying to figure out.
But what we can definitively say at the moment is that the gunman died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. There was a prior relationship. Investigators are trying to sort out exactly what happened and what led to this situation that we have, but they did know each other. There was a relationship. It was domestic in nature. And this actually clears up something because it takes it away from that realm of an active shooter situation where you have a lone gunman coming in with there being some sort of a manifesto or a reason for doing this.
At least in this situation, from what we can -- we've been able to figure out, there was a reason that it was targeted, and there was a reason for the shooting in that respect.
PHILLIP: A very important update on that, very sad story developing out of Rhode Island. Mark Morales, thank you very much.
And coming up in THE ARENA, a big new development in the search for Nancy Guthrie. What the sheriff is now saying about who is a suspect and who isn't, and the new clues being analyzed for DNA.
But first, former President Barack Obama responding for the first time to that recent racist post by his successor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOST: Just days ago, Donald Trump put a picture of you, your face on an ape's body. And so again, this is -- you know, this is -- kind of we've seen the evolution of the discourse. How do we come back from a place that that we have fallen into?
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Well, first of all, I think it's important to recognize that the majority of the American people find this behavior deeply troubling.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NBC NEWS ANCHOR: To whoever has her or knows where she is, that it's never too late. And you're not lost or alone. And it is never too late to do the right thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: That emotional plea from Savannah Guthrie is coming. As investigators enter the third week of searching for her mother, Nancy.
The FBI says that they are now analyzing DNA on a glove that was found two miles from the 84-year-old's home. They say that glove appears to match the one worn by a suspect who was seen tampering with a doorbell camera the night that Nancy went missing.
CNN's Ed Lavandera joins us now from outside of Nancy Guthrie's home.
Ed, we just got a very interesting update from the sheriff as we continue to wait for results from these DNA tests that are being done right now.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We sure did, Abby. You know, we're entering the third week of this investigation and search for Nancy Guthrie. And up until now, several members of the Guthrie family have been speculated about in all sorts of ways online and speculation and social media and that sort of thing. And the sheriff here in Pima County has now put out a statement to that effect. I'm going to read it in full here.
Quote, this is from Sheriff Chris Nanos here. "To be clear, the Guthrie family, to include all siblings and spouses, has been cleared as possible suspects in this case. The family has been nothing but cooperative and gracious and are victims in this case.
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To suggest otherwise is not only wrong, it is cruel. The Guthrie family are victims, plain and simple. Please, I'm begging you, the media, to honor your profession and report with some sense of compassion and professionalism.
As people who have been following this, I'm sure in, you know, online circles and social media circles, there has been a great deal of speculation and frankly just outright lies about what has been unfolding here. So that is the latest statement from the sheriff, significant in the sense that all of these close family members of Nancy Guthrie have been cleared in this investigation, but there are still no answers as to who the suspect is and as you mentioned Abby, we are awaiting DNA tests.
And I'll walk you through some of those details because over the weekend, the FBI said it had collected more than a dozen gloves. One of those was very similar to the glove seen worn by the suspect. And that front door camera video. And from that glove, the FBI says they have a DNA sample that they're working with and which is significant, Abby, because on Friday, the sheriff here told us that they do have an unknown DNA source at the -- at the Guthrie property.
So, the question is, do those two match? If they do, this opens up a new lane of investigation or for investigators to pursue. And then obviously that DNA sample would be put into databases and try to identify who that person is. Could very well be that that person's DNA is not in any kind of database.
So, we're awaiting the results of that to see if there's some sort of -- some sort of match, if it's something that opens things up here for investigators, and were hoping to get word on that either late today or tomorrow, Abby.
PHILLIP: Yeah. And, Ed, at this stage, I mean, it's -- we're now about to be in week three of this. And there was some hope after this video was released that a flood of new tips would cause a breakthrough in this case. Do you have any sense of if there are any other things that these investigators are running down here? That that might be driving where they go next in this investigation?
LAVANDERA: Well, we do know that they've been able to identify, for example, the specific backpack worn by the suspect in that case. And the sheriff says that specific backpack has been identified as a brand that is sold at Walmart. So, the sheriff told me this morning they are working with Walmart, for example, to try to track down the list of recent purchases on that and see if that might lead them to someone. But you can imagine if thousands of those bags are sold, that's a long tedious process to be able to break that down.
But there are levels of investigative work that that are being gone through to that level. And we also know that there are just tens of thousands of tips that have been called in since that video was released. People maybe identifying or suspecting the gait, the way the person walked in that video, calling these other tips.
We saw on Friday night, there was a swarm of law enforcement activity and just several miles away from where we are, based on a lead that was called in to authorities. So, all of that continues to work, but we don't appear any closer to identifying the culprit.
PHILLIP: Ed Lavandera thank you very much for all your work on the ground there.
I do now want to bring in CNN's -- CNN security correspondent, Josh Campbell, and a former Boston police commissioner, Ed Davis. He led the department during the Boston marathon bombing and manhunt.
Josh, first of all, the clearing of the family here. I mean, frankly, if you've been on the Internet, you've seen the rumors, you've seen the rampant speculation. Why now? Why do you think they released this statement now as opposed to, frankly, a long time ago, because this has been going on for a while?
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, two parts. And I think that, you know, in any investigation, what -- especially involving a violent crime. Sure, investigators will look at those closest to a possible victim, which obviously includes relatives. And so, that's part of any normal course of the investigation.
But, you know, the more attention this case has received, it's also fueled, quite frankly, a lot of just simply irresponsible, factless rumors about who may have been responsible. And that includes from, you know, true crime enthusiasts, so-called online sleuths, suggesting that there's a possible family connection here.
Now, the sheriff coming out very forcefully and saying, look, this has to stop. Our investigation has determined that is not the case. We'll see if that quells, you know any of what we've actually seen. But it is worth pointing out that the sheriff said that the Guthrie family has been nothing but cooperative.
PHILLIP: And, Ed, almost in a similar vein, frankly, TMZ has been the recipient of a bunch of different messages that seem to indicate maybe a claim of ransom or a claim of information about this kidnaping. They received a fourth one from a person claiming to know the kidnapper today.
And I want you to listen to TMZ founder Harvey Levin's message to the person who sent that message.
[16:25:04] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARVEY LEVIN, TMZ FOUNDER: I don't know if you're real or not, if you're watching this, but if you are, and I have told the FBI that we're going to do this, they know this, that if you're worried about getting this money and you really do have this information, send it to us. You're sending us these letters, send it to us. We will forward it to the FBI.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Ed, at this point, do you think that investigators believe that these messages are even relevant?
ED DAVIS, FORMER BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER: Well, probably not at this point. It's been going on for so long, and we know from past history that people come out of the woodwork in a situation like this and try to exploit it.
In the marathon bombing, we had people photoshopping phony bombs into the -- into a scene at the -- at the marathon as if you know, it was present. We had to run that down. It took investigative resources.
We also had news outlets reporting that a particular individual was the bomber, and we had to provide 24/7 protection for that individual because they were wrong. They got it wrong. They listened to things online that weren't legitimate.
So, it's great that the sheriff has come out and clarified this. It's a horrible thing for the family to have to have that hanging over their head in a situation like this, and it's also courageous of the sheriff to clarify it because you never really know where an investigation is going to go.
Clearly, the abundance of evidence is pointing to there not being an involvement. But, you know is there another cousin or something that they haven't looked at? Those are the kind of things that come back to haunt you so I give them credit for coming out and saying that.
PHILLIP: And, Josh, that video that we played of Savannah really pleading with the kidnaper of her mother to do the right thing. First of all, if you know Savannah, I mean, that sounds very true to her and authentic to her. But do you think that there is something to that plea that could work in this moment?
CAMPBELL: Well, that is always the hope. And, you know, of course, there is a big question about what actually happened to Nancy Guthrie and if she is still being held right now by someone if that ends up being the case, obviously this is a chance to try to appeal to that person's humanity. And as you mentioned, Savannah, they're leaning very heavily on her faith to say, look, we still believe there is good in you there is still time to actually do the right thing here.
We hope that works. I will tell you. And, you know, Ed and I have both been in this, you know, the business of law enforcement where sometimes you have to look at these things very clinically it might just be the last thing that they have that they're able to do because there hasn't been that we know of any type of two way communication between any alleged abductor as well as, you know, the person or the family members in law enforcement and so we shall see.
I mean, I think one thing that's important to note is that this is something that would happen in any given situation where you want to obviously bring the family to try to humanize the victim here. The longer this goes, you know, hope starts to fade. Hope isn't over completely, obviously. I don't want to suggest that.
But to have the family out there doing this video that suggests that there isn't anything going on behind the scenes to try to secure her release and some type of communication with an alleged abductor.
PHILLIP: And, Ed, before we go, just a quick response from you. The Boston bombing situation took a matter of days to resolve. This has clearly not. What's your take on why that is and how much longer it could be?
DAVIS: Well, the complexity of this investigation -- investigation is massive. Remember, within four days we had an identifiable photograph of the two suspects, and we were able to put that out to the public. And things started to happen very quickly after that.
They don't have that here. They have a lot of evidence that's going to be run down. The cell phone evidence, the video evidence, the physical evidence that we spoke about earlier today takes time to run down.
It's not something it's not like, you see in the -- in the movies where people can get this information immediately. It takes shoe leather and a lot of dedicated work. And I think that they're doing the best that they can with limited information
PHILLIP: All right. Josh Campbell and Ed Davis, thank you both very much.
CAMPBELL: Of course.
PHILLIP: And coming up in THE ARENA, new comments from former President Barack Obama after President Trump's truth social feed shared racist video depicting him and former First Lady Michelle Obama as apes, ahead of what he says is, quote, "sort of a clown show".
Plus, Republicans on Capitol Hill accusing Democrats of dragging their feet. What we know about why leaders have yet to respond to the latest White House proposal in the shutdown talks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHANNON BREAM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Can you give me a name or two of somebody that you do think is a good faith operator on the other side of the aisle that you're able to talk to right now?
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SEN. KATIE BRITT (R-AL): Look, I think there are a number of them. Weve tried to be very respectful of the White House and Senate Democrats talking, but I think that there are a number of Senate Democrats that I hope to have conversations with in the next couple of days to continue good faith negotiations, because that's what it's going to take.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I think it's important to recognize that the majority of the American people find this behavior deeply troubling. There's this sort of clown show that's happening in social media and on television. There doesn't seem to be any shame about this among people who used to feel like you had to have some sort of decorum and, a sense of propriety. And respect for the office. Right? So, that's been lost.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: That was former President Barack Obama there, indirectly addressing that racist A.I. generated video posted on President Trump's Truth Social account. It depicted him and former First Lady Michelle Obama as apes.
The former president lamenting the loss of decorum and respect for the office, saying that most Americans would find the post deeply troubling. He even went further in describing what he sees as social media and TV as a clown show, which I think perhaps we could agree about the social media piece of that, at least, and not so subtle swipe at the Trump administration's rhetoric.
My panel is back.
And kind of a mild reaction from Obama especially considering all the fervor that this brought up. But is he right that most Americans find this to be abhorrent?
QUINN: It's mild, except it's not because he doesn't speak out on everything. So, when he says anything, I think you have to add a little amplification to it.
I think he is right. I don't think this is what Americans want to see. I don't think Americans believe that. And I also don't think Americans -- and I think the polls show that Americans are sick and tired of Donald Trump in a racist and discriminatory way, attacking many, many communities
PHILLIP: He also had some advice for his own party and this is kind of in a moment when Democrats are having to figure out what on earth are they going to do after Trump? They can agree that Trump is bad. They can't agree on what's next.
Here's what he said needs to happen in terms of what kinds of leaders need to take the forefront here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I'm not making a hard and fast rule here, but I do think that Democrats do well when we have candidates who are plugged into the moment, to the zeitgeist, to the times and the particular struggles that folks are thinking about as they look towards the future, rather than look backward toward the past. There is a element of at some point you age out, you're not connected directly to the immediate struggles that folks are going through.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Juan?
BENITEZ: I think you can age out if you're 80 years old, and also if you are 25 years old. I think Democrats need to go back to the streets talk to people, see what they need, see what they're expecting their government to do.
And we have a really good example here in November last year with Zohran Mamdani, the mayor of New York City, he went out there to talk to people and asked them in many immigrant communities, working class communities, why do you vote for Donald Trump? And how do we get you back to vote for a Democratic candidate?
And people were talking about affordability, and that's how he crafted his message. So sometimes Democrats, obviously, if you're in Washington for many years and decades, you're going to be entrenched in the system and its going to be really difficult to connect with people, with regular people. So, I think Democrats need to do that this year if they really want to make a difference in the balance of power in Washington in November.
QUINN: Yeah, we need to stop telling people they don't feel what they feel. That's what we did in the Biden administration. No, no, the economy is great. You don't -- you're wrong. People feel what they feel because it's what's happening in their lives, and we need to honor that by having policies that reflect their daily lives.
LYMAN: Yeah. I want I think your point is really spot on with Mamdani in particular. So, we know -- "Politico" did a report last year and it was great. And what they found is that only 27 percent of young men actually found the Democratic Party to be positive, whereas the rest of young men said the Democrats seem weak, they seem ineffective, and they had the opposite views for Republicans, which is partially why you saw that gender gap with Kamala Harris in 2024.
What Mamdani did differently, he didn't just -- he did exactly what you did, but he also didn't treat young voters, especially my generation, as though we were children. If you remember, Democrats ran that really weird campaign on social media. Remember the choose your fighter thing? And everyone was like, how is that resonating with me? Where's Mamdani said, no, I'm not going to try to appeal to you like that. I'm going to appeal to you on issues that actually matter.
And I don't like Mamdani but he did what other Democrats like Pelosi, Biden, have been unable to do when they're in that age category. ROTHMAN: The issue facing the country, in my view, is not so much
chronological, but characterological. You can be a person of poor character no matter what age you are and to bring it back to that really repulsive video that the president put out. His defense was, well, this was just part of a role right? It bled into another video. This is not -- it's not on us.
No, that's not a -- that's not a defense. It's an indictment of your consumption habits and the sort of politically flavored content that the people who are plugged in to use President Obama's language, consume and are interested in and disseminate, that is the kind of political culture that those who are really highly caffeinated and consume politics as entertainment, enjoy pursue, and reward in primary races.
[16:40:02]
PHILLIP: I want you to be right about maybe this being a character test, but I feel like maybe it hasn't been and if it's not then what do Democrats do? You know, because I mean if it were really a character test, Donald Trump has been Donald Trump in 2026 and 2025 and all the years going all the way back to 2015.
So, I mean, is it really what Noah is saying?
BENITEZ: And I mean, he's really --
PHILLIP: I mean, it should -- maybe it should be, but maybe it's not
BENITEZ: He's really consistent with the message. We saw that video and you're talking about his consumption habits -- well, it's the message from his administration. There's a racist agenda right now coming out of the White House when we don't want to bring any immigrants from poor countries, African countries, or Central America or South America. But we want to bring in white South Africans or Europeans.
So, there is a clear agenda here. And this is just like another piece of it. I don't think we should be surprised at all.
PHILLIP: Well, let me well, let me play what Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear had to say about this general topic. And just to note, I mean people have brought his name up as a potential 2020 contender. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ANDY BESHEAR (D), KENTUCKY: I believe that the American people want stability, that Donald Trump is exhausting. Many Americans feel like the pendulum swung too far during the Biden administration and it swung way too far during the Trump administration. And what they want is an America where they can wake up every morning and not be worried about its future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: I mean that seems right. Although I think the one thing to consider for Democrats is that Trump is not necessarily on the ballot the next time around, Trumpism probably will be, but he's not. So, what does that mean for Democrats?
QUINN: Well, I think one of the key things I think we saw when Trump won was that we were against something, but we weren't for something. And I think what the governor is saying is people want to know that those they vote for are laser-focused on making their lives better.
You can't do that by just opposing Trump. We should oppose Trump, but we also have to put out our own plans of what we're for and what we believe in that reflect what the real experience of Americans are. Not act like we are better than Americans, and we can tell them. We need to be with them.
PHILLIP: Noah, when you look at the potential people who could succeed Trump on the Republican side, do you see a tendency to exhaust the American people, the people who are so tired of all the drama? Do you see them going in that direction, or are they just trying to be like mini me to Trump?
ROTHMAN: I really don't know. Theres a fascinating dynamic going on on the right, right now. Something potentially schismatic within the MAGA coalition, with the poles represented by J.D. Vance and Marco Rubio, a much more establishmentarian sort of foreign policy guy who translates MAGA to the rest of the world and J.D. Vance --
PHILLIP: He seems less exhausting.
ROTHMAN: Who is fluent
He does seem a little -- a little less exhausting, but the primary voters weigh in first before the general electorate. Right? That was a message for the general electorate. The governor, not necessarily the primary electorate.
And I do see Democrats sort of going a speed run version of what the GOP went through in 2010 to 2015, roughly. And you see it in Mamdani election. You see it in New Jersey's 11th primary election, in which former Congressman Tom Malinowski lost to a much more insurgent challenger, the candidate who channels the unexpressed ideas of the Democratic primary electorate. That's why Donald Trump won. It may be why a much more insurgent candidate wins in the Democratic side.
PHILLIP: It's a really important point there.
Thank you all. And ahead for us in THE ARENA, New York Congressman Dan Goldman is here with us live as the Trump administration renews a public plan to overhaul the way the country conducts elections ahead of the 2026 midterms.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTI NOEM, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: It may be one of the most important things that we need to make sure we trust is reliable and that when it gets to election day that we've been proactive to make sure that we have the right people voting, electing the right leaders to lead this country
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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[16:48:25]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R-OK): ICE and the border patrol is funded through the One Big, Beautiful Bill up until 2028. And so, the only thing they have to shut down is the federal agents -- agencies that are named, like FEMA and the Coast Guard and TSA. So, they're shutting down thousands of workers for nothing but a talking point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Three days in and there appears to be no end in sight in this battle over potential reforms to ICE. A source tells CNN that today, the Democrats have not yet sent back a counterproposal to the White House's latest offer. When it comes to ending this partial government shutdown. Democrats have been demanding changes to the way immigration enforcement agencies operate after the recent events in Minnesota, including the killing of U.S. citizens Renee Good and Alex Pretti.
Joining me now in THE ARENA is Democratic Congressman Dan Goldman.
Congressman, thanks for being here. I wonder when do you --
REP. DAN GOLDMAN (D-NY): Thanks for having me, Abby.
PHILLIP: -- when do you think that counterproposal is actually going to be sent over to the white house? And based on what the white house sent over to Democrats, are you seeing any evidence of a willingness to move in your direction on the demands that you're making about ICE?
GOLDMAN: No, and in fact, there's no basis for their resistance. I mean think about these very basic things that we are asking for.
One, unmask ICE agents. No other law enforcement agents are masked, criminal law enforcement agents are masked. It gives them a feeling of invincibility. Clearly, a lack of accountability.
Their bogus excuse for why they need to be masked would apply to any law enforcement agency.
[16:50:04]
And that's just not the way democracy works.
Second, what -- you need a judicial warrant to search a home under the Fourth Amendment. An administrative warrant is not sufficient to do that. And so, this is already the law. So, we are effectively asking them to reassert the law that exists right now. That should not be difficult. Third, roving patrols. Are they saying that it is okay to roam the
streets and demand citizenship paperwork from anyone that they see, because that's what they're doing and that's what they're resisting changing. And so, these are three very basic demands that they are already resisting. And they have absolutely no basis to resist them.
PHILLIP: So, Senator Markwayne Mullin, who we just played earlier in the segment, says the Democrats are playing political theater with this. If DHS and ICE are funded for a few more years, as he points out why is it the Democrats think that they can get concessions now when it's not actually the operations of ICE or Border Patrol that are impacted by this shutdown?
GOLDMAN: Well, the American people agree that ICE and -- ICE should not receive a single dime more. The One Big, Beautiful Bill was the Republican only effort to militarize ice in order to terrorize our communities.
And what we are standing for is what the American people believe. And if the Republicans think that just because they have money for ice and that it's okay not to pay TSA, not to pay Secret Service, not to pay the Coast Guard, then they're in for a difficult road in terms of the politics of this all especially because they will be held accountable. They'll be held responsible for shutting down the government because they refuse to accommodate very, very common sense basic ideals of this country.
And I think that's a risk that if they're willing to take, that's fine. But we're not funding another dime to the Department of Homeland Security until not only those three things that I mentioned are put in place but also in my view that we make sure that the department of homeland security cannot rig our election coming up in November.
PHILLIP: But I also imagine you understand that that's also a risk Democrats are taking, right? I mean, it sounds like you're confident that the American people will not hold you all responsible for a shutdown. How can you be so sure?
GOLDMAN: Well, look, nobody wants the shutdown but, you know Republicans consistently think that because they have a majority, they can do whatever they want. Well, if you're funding the government, you need Democrats. And if you're going to need Democrats, you need to work in a bipartisan way. And so, it's just unacceptable what we're seeing with ICE.
And rather than get into the political tit for tat, were standing on the principle of democracy, of American values, of not this authoritarian fascist regime that is storming our streets with no accountability because the FBI is not investigating anything. And then layer on top of that, the clear desire and the clear intention to use immigration enforcement to help steal this upcoming election, as Kristi Noem has said that she effectively intends to do. This is a massive, massive five alarm fire that needs to be addressed.
PHILLIP: So, on the Kristi Noem of it all what do you think? Really? You just said that she's trying to use ICE, immigration officers, to steal the upcoming election. What? What does that look like specifically? What do you think that they are trying to do?
GOLDMAN: I think they're trying to do this from a number of different fronts. Once the partisan gerrymandering effort clearly failed. Now they've moved on. They are doing, they did somehow were able to swear out a search warrant. I would love to see you know, the representations made on that affidavit to search the Fulton County board of elections for 2020 results.
Then they demanded that Minnesota turn over voter rolls in order for the ICE officers to withdraw. Now, Kristi Noem is saying that she's going to take it into her own control to make sure the right people vote. And what this all is sort of geared around is this completely bogus SAVE Act where the Republicans have created mistrust in the system, in our electoral system, not based on fact, not based on data, not based on evidence, because there is no data, no evidence that shows voter fraud of any material means that affects an election.
[16:55:02]
And then they're going to say, oh, well, we have to solve this mistrust that we've created. No, that's not how it works. They're trying to suppress the vote. They're trying to take over voting machines and voter rolls, and they're trying to rig this election.
PHILLIP: All right. New York Congressman Dan Goldman, thank you very much for being with us. We'll be right back.
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PHILLIP: And thank you to my panel. You can now stream THE ARENA live or catch up whenever you want on the CNN app. Just scan that QR code below.
You can also catch up by listening to THE ARENA's podcast and follow the show on X and Instagram @TheArenaCNN.
Dana Bash is in for Jake Tapper in "THE LEAD" on the other side of the country from us.
Dana, great to see you, my friend.
