Return to Transcripts main page
CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Ex-Prince Andrew Released "Under Investigation" After Arrest; Trump Calls Arrest Of Ex-Prince Andrew A "Shame". Aired 4-5p ET
Aired February 19, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:00]
COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: So, there you go, Boris, Brianna, the greatest Alpine skier of all time. Keys to success plastering sticky notes all around your room, visualizing the goal and bringing home the gold. And celebrating of course, with espresso martinis. That's the key.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Love that, love it. That was journalism in action right there by Coy Wire pushing the van.
Coy Wire, life force in Italy. Thank you so much.
Don't go anywhere.
THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
(MUSIC)
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. Welcome to THE ARENA. I'm Kasie Hunt. It's good to have you with us on this Thursday.
We come on the air in a stunning moment as the entire world grapples with the revelations in the Jeffrey Epstein files. Andrew Mountbatten- Windsor, the eldest brother of King Charles, leaving a police station this afternoon after being arrested. Thames Valley Police saying the former prince was picked up on suspicion of misconduct in public office.
This follows a almost surreal scene this morning as police in unmarked vehicles gathered at the Royal Sandringham estate, where Andrew resides. A royal source telling CNN that Buckingham Palace was not informed in advance that the former duke of York was to be arrested.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Good afternoon, your majesty.
REPORTER: Do you have any reaction to the arrest of your brother, sir?
REPORTER: Your majesty, how are you feeling after your brother's arrest?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: King Charles today, ignoring questions about his brother's arrest but in a statement, the British monarch said in part, quote, "Let me state clearly, the law must take its course, end quote.
Andrew has not been charged with any sexual offenses, and he has previously denied any wrongdoing. His arrest, however, is being celebrated by the family of Virginia Giuffre. Giuffre, who died by suicide last year, claimed that she was forced to have sex with then Prince Andrew while she was underage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMANDA ROBERTS, SISTER IN LAW OF VIRGINIA GIUFFRE: Days like this are always such a big mix of emotions, but the thing that we say every day is like, it's so hard to get wins during this fight. And so, when they come live in them and really enjoy them and celebrate them, and this is a victory for Virginia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So again, we do want to be clear that today's arrest was not officially related to any allegation of a sexual crime. And Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor has repeatedly denied Giuffre's allegations.
In 2019, he told the BBC that he has no recollection of ever meeting her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
INTERVIEWER: She was very specific about that night. She described dancing with you and you profusely sweating, and that she went on to have baths possibly --
ANDREW MOUNTBATTEN-WINDSOR, MEMBER OF THE MOUNTBATTEN-WINDSOR FAMILY: There's a slight problem with the sweating, because I have a peculiar medical condition, which is that I don't sweat or I didn't sweat at the time, and that was oh, actually, yes I didn't sweat at the time because I had suffered what I would describe as an overdose of adrenaline in the Falklands War when I was shot at.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So, this is the first time in almost 400 years that a senior member of the British royal family has been arrested. Misconduct in public office, the crime that police suspect Andrew may have committed carries a maximum sentence of life in prison. Police have previously said they're assessing whether Mountbatten-Windsor shared confidential material with Jeffrey Epstein during his decade as a U.K. trade envoy.
Andrew has not commented since his arrest and he previously denied all wrongdoing. He's also insisted that he never witnessed Epstein engage in misconduct in 2019. Then Prince Andrew spoke with the BBC about their relationship and how his role as trade envoy played into it. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOUNTBATTEN-WINDSOR: Going to Jeffrey's was not about partying. Absolutely not.
INTERVIEWER: You said you weren't very good friends, but would you describe him as a good friend? Did you trust him?
MOUNTBATTEN-WINDSOR: Yes, I think I probably did. We have to remember that I was transitioning out of the navy at the time. And in the transition, I wanted to find out more about what was going on, because in the navy, it's a pretty isolated business because you're out at sea the whole time.
And I was going to become the special representative for international trade and investment. So, I wanted to know more about what was going on in the international business world. And so that was another reason for going there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Let's get off the sidelines and head into THE ARENA.
In just a moment, I'm going to speak to the top Democrat on the House Oversight Committee, Congressman Robert Garcia. That committee has, of course, been very involved in this.
But first, let's get straight to CNN anchor and correspondent, Max Foster. He is live outside Buckingham Palace.
Max, it's good to have you.
[16:05:00]
Pretty difficult circumstances for the royal family today. What are they saying?
MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we did have a statement from the king. I'm told that the king wasn't given a heads up here.
I think what's interesting is that they could have invited Andrew into a police station for questioning. They didn't do that. There was a convoy of cars that went straight onto the king's estate and confronted him there. I think the thinking there would be that as soon as you arrest someone, it does allow you access to their homes and their computers.
So immediately they were able to search Andrew's home on the Norfolk estate, also his home in Windsor. They've completed that search in Norfolk. They're continuing it in Windsor. And then he was questioned all day.
He could have said "no comment" to many of those questions he was asked today, or he could have chosen this moment to finally capitulate and tell the police exactly everything that he knew. He's famously hasn't done that. Or if he did in that BBC interview, for example, that whole narrative has since been undermined because a lot of what he said there clearly wasn't true.
The king then comes out with a statement today, and it wasn't in any way personal. He talked about the deepest concern he had for the news about Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor not referring to him as his brother, and he talked about, wholehearted support and cooperation with the police.
I just want to say, Kasie, what -- you know, the delicacy for the king here, he would have had to think very carefully about putting that statement out. The king is the head of state. These police are his forces. His forces went in and arrested his brother. He was being arrested by his forces if it goes to trial. No suggestion of that at the moment. It will be crown versus Andrew, the king versus brother.
If he ends up in prison, that will be at his majesty's pleasure. You can imagine how delicate this is for the king. He can't be seen to in any way be interfering with the police investigation, because that would be seen as corruption in itself.
HUNT: Max, can I ask you? I mean, you've covered the royal family now for -- for some time and so. We'll what is the relationship been like between the now King Charles and former Prince Andrew over the years? And where has Charles had to make decisions about how to deal with what was out there in public about his brother?
FOSTER: Well, it's interesting because obviously the central allegations here was where -- was when Prince Andrew, as he was, was serving the British monarchy, had an office here in Buckingham palace, and he was serving the British government as trade envoy. So, that was under Queen Elizabeth's reign. Some criticism, I'm hearing that she didn't do enough.
But to be fair to her, how did she know about these emails? If they were emails being forwarded to Epstein? Also, she did take away one of his titles which was HRH, his royal highness, so she did act to some extent. I have been speaking to people close to the king today, and one of them did say something quite interesting today, and that was that after the BBC interview, the king saw -- the now king, then Prince Charles saw that transcript and said I need to speak to my mother straight away.
So, the message I'm getting is that the king has been very on the front foot on all of this as demonstrated by a statement today. And he's doing as much as he can to try to get justice for the survivors. That's the separate allegations, sexual allegations.
But on these misconduct in public office allegations, he's also trying to show that he thinks it's absolutely right that people should not abuse their positions, whether or not it's their brother.
I don't think they're close, Kasie, fundamentally, to your question. I don't think he's across everything Andrew was doing. But at this point, I think they couldn't be further apart.
HUNT: Remarkable.
All right. Max Foster, stand by for us. You're going to be coming back out to talk more about this later on in the hour.
Joining us now is the top Democrat on the House Oversight Committee, Congressman Robert Garcia of California. His committee has, of course, been conducting their own investigation into Jeffrey Epstein and these files.
So, Congressman, let's just start by the breaking news today. How, if at all, do you expect this arrest to impact your committee's inquiry into the Jeffrey Epstein files and what they mean?
REP. ROBERT GARCIA (D-CA): Well, first, it's very significant, I think that we should not underplay how important this development is. I've been hearing from survivors directly. There is a sense that there is some accountability and justice for survivors. I think that we have been in the oversight committee. Weve reached out to the former prince directly, and we've wanted to talk to him in the past.
We have questions for him around numerous parts of our investigation that I think are really important and in fact, we hope to continue at some point to have that conversation. But the accountability that is happening right now in the U.K. is an example to the rest of the world, but especially here to the United States. That level of accountability needs to be happening here within our own government.
And I want to make one thing clear, and I hope that those that are advising, and certainly those are speaking to the former prince, he has a lot of information. So I hope that one, he does the right thing, and he is accountable for the crimes that he has been arrested for. But at the same time, I hope he also tries to do good by the survivors and helps us gain more information about who Jeffrey Epstein was, the harm that he caused, and the other powerful men around the world, including those in our own country and in our own government that also cause harm.
So there's a lot of moving parts here, and I'm hopeful that we can get more information as the weeks and months move forward.
HUNT: The former prince, we showed a little bit of that interview that he gave about this in 2019. In that interview, he denied or I'm sorry, he said he didn't recall appearing in a photograph with Virginia Giuffre. We can't show it because of some broadcasting related rules in the United Kingdom.
But you say that you wanted to bring him in to ask him questions. You've seen a lot of these unredacted files. What would be your first question to former Prince Andrew, were you to have him in front of you?
GARCIA: Just one. I mean, look, I think what we want to ask prince Andrew is who were the coconspirators, along with Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell who were providing the financial support and providing essentially the ability for Epstein to create this incredible sex trafficking ring that hurt, damage and rape so many women and children.
We believe that the former prince has critical information about who else was involved beyond just Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. That information is critical. We also want to understand, what was Jeffrey Epstein doing and his relationship with other foreign governments. More information continues to come out that Jeffrey Epstein had these complex relationships with foreign governments.
And so, that piece of this investigation, which is part, of course, of these charges and this arrest we think is very important for the ongoing investigation, not just to get justice for the survivors, but to understand what the hell was Jeffrey Epstein doing and who exactly was he working for? Why we continue to protect these billionaire, powerful men across this country, and especially here in the U.S.? That is a question central to how we move forward.
HUNT: So, speaking of that very question, I want to show you how President Trump reacted today to the arrest of the former Prince Andrew. Let's watch and we'll talk about it on the other side. Take a look
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, I'm the expert in a way because I've been totally exonerated. It's very nice. I can actually speak about it very nicely. I think it's a shame. I think it's very sad. I think it's so bad for the royal family. It's a -- very, very sad. To me, it's a very sad thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: The president said the arrest is a very sad thing. Your reaction?
GARCIA: What's a shame? The real shame here is the president refuses to release the other 50 percent of the files in his possession and the possession of the DOJ. That's a shame. It's a shame is that coconspirators and his wealthy friends continue to be protected. That's what's a shame.
He's been exonerated of nothing. He's been trying to hide the files. He's been trying to put in roadblocks and ensure that Congress doesn't act. He called this whole thing a hoax.
Well, a hoax is not what's happening right now in the U.K. A hoax is not what's happening right now in our conversations and interviews across our own country, of people that may have been involved with Epstein's crimes. And so, our investigation is just getting started, and I am glad that the accountability has begun, particularly in the U.K. and in other parts of the world as well.
But we have questions here in the United States and so we want to talk to the former prince. He has important information. He right now can do the right thing not just by cooperating with U.K. authorities, but by cooperating with the oversight committee. And I would encourage him to have the desire and hopefully the fortitude to answer our questions. We think he can be very helpful in our investigation.
HUNT: Congressman, your committee just interviewed the billionaire former owner of Victoria's Secret, Les Wexner, who has been wrapped up in this, shall we say.
He told you that he has not been questioned by the DOJ or by the FBI about his ties to Epstein.
Can you explain why that is?
GARCIA: Outrageous. I mean, it's completely outrageous. It's unacceptable.
I asked him that question directly in the deposition, and I was stunned by his answer. You have the single largest benefactor, essentially the one person who ensured Jeffrey Epstein had the ability and the financial wealth to have an island and have a plane and create this enormous trafficking ring with Ghislaine Maxwell.
No one gave him more money than Les Wexner. No one has been more involved. He's been named by survivors. He's in the Epstein files. We need to follow the money and why Wexner provided so much financial capital to Epstein. Yet he has never, not once, been contacted by the FBI or the DOJ. And I don't care what administration we're talking about, whether it's this one --
HUNT: Why didn't the Biden administration do it? I mean, why didn't the Biden administration interview him?
GARCIA: I have no -- I have no idea. But we should ask that question. In fact, I've been asking why -- Merrick Garland should be answering some of these questions. It is -- it is -- to me, this idea that for so many years, the most powerful people in this country and in our own government have refused to investigate these crimes against children and women is disgusting.
It has to end, and I hope every single person that's been involved in this cover up has to face justice, and that we get the survivors that the truth that they deserve. And we should be -- all of us in government and across this country should be waking up to the fact that our own government, regardless of whether it was a Democratic or Republican administration, our own government, has been hiding the truth and not asking the tough questions.
Well, that's over. We're asking the questions and we're going to get the truth.
HUNT: All right. California Congressman Robert Garcia, thanks very much for your time today. I really appreciate it. See you soon.
All right. Coming up next here in THE ARENA, more on the stunning arrest today of the man who was once second in line to the British throne and the importance of legal accountability related to the Epstein investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Here's where we begin. Major breaking news out of the U.K. SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We do now know that Andrew
Mountbatten-Windsor, of course, former Prince Andrew, has been arrested
GAYLE KING, CBS ANCHOR: Andrew, the former prince and brother of King Charles, has been arrested.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC ANCHOR: Good morning, America. Breaking news right now, the royal arrested.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The BBC understands that he has been arrested.
ZAIN ASHER, CNN ANCHOR: The biggest crisis for the British royal family in decades.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:21:40]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMILY MAITLIS, INTERVIEWED ANDREW MOUNTBATTEN-WINDSOR IN 2019: I'm absolutely stunned by what we're seeing today. This is not something we see in this country, this is not something that we are used to seeing. I think the questions now for the royal family, and particularly for the monarch, his brother, will be how close that relationship is made to seem between the two of them and to the wider public.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: That was the British journalist Emily Maitlis, who sat down with then Prince Andrew in 2019 for that infamous interview, reacting to the breaking news earlier today of his arrest.
Andrew was picked up on suspicion of misconduct in public office, making him the first senior British royal to be arrested since Charles I almost 400 years ago.
Joining us now is CNN royal commentator Sally Bedell Smith; staff writer at "Vanity Fair", co-host of the "Dynasty" podcast, Erin Vanderhoof; and CNN's Max Foster is back with us from Buckingham Palace.
And, Max, I do want to circle back to you, because what Emily Maitlis was touching on there was exactly what you and I were discussing at the beginning of the show. What is your sense of both, how the relationship has been over the years with King Charles and former Prince Andrew, and what they'll try to make it look as though it is now.
FOSTER: Well, I don't think they've ever been particularly close. And you know, the royal family is a pretty extraordinary setup. You have different members of the families with their different teams, different palaces even. And it does become quite political with all the, you know, different groups working with and sometimes against each other.
And I don't think they've ever been particularly close, but nevertheless, it is a firm. So, you would expect there to be coordination and awareness of what the other players are doing I think, you know the message were getting from the palace that the king was completely caught out by all of this in terms of Epstein and has acted very firmly on it. I think the idea is, you know, to send Andrew to a cottage in the English shires was to completely separate him from the monarchy and strip all his titles away from it.
But clearly, you know, it's never going to go away completely. And we got a sense of that, you had a convoy of cars, police cars driving onto a royal estate and arresting, you know, someone who is still a senior member of that family, even if they're not a working royal. I think the challenge now for the king is to keep the separation there, and then we'll wait to find out off the back of these police investigations how much the palace did know, actually, about what was going on.
At the moment, we think it's nothing, but that's the -- that's the challenge, I think for the monarchy going forward. Can they stay protected from this and can they carry on their work actually, without this shadow over anything that they do because they're not functioning at the moment, they can't carry out engagements without all -- all the emphasis being on the Andrew scandal.
HUNT: Yeah. Well, and. Sally, I mean to that point, we saw some of that earlier. We showed it at the top of the show, the king attempting to walk into, you know, something. And of course, facing shouted questions about his brother. I mean, you've obviously looked at this for a long time. You covered the queen, who you know, reportedly, Andrew was a favorite son of Queen Elizabeth.
SALLY BEDELL SMITH, CNN ROYAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah.
HUNT: What are you thinking about? Well, correct me, you're the expert
[16:25:00]
SMITH: Well, I've always thought it was her youngest. I think Andrew was the first of the second set -- you know, Max alluded to the fact that Andrew and Charles were never close. I mean, they were very -- 12, 12 years apart. And but, you know, they just they're very temperamentally very different. And I think Andrew was the first of the second set, then Edward. And I think Edward has always been her favorite, along with Anne.
And I think Andrew had a personality that, you know, he sort of got away with things and he sort of charmed her. And so I think she indulged him probably but on the other hand, he began misbehaving very young, and she couldn't have been pleased about that. I remember somebody told me when I was doing my book about him that they were sitting out in the garden, the queen and one of her ladies in waiting, and they were writing letters.
And Andrew came roaring around from behind the bushes, chasing a gardener's daughter who was half dressed. So, the queen didn't really pay attention to it. Although the woman, the countess who was with her, said, I would have given him a thrashing.
HUNT: That really paints a pretty remarkable picture, I have to say.
Erin, I mean, to that point, how plausible is it that the palace really, you know, had no knowledge or participation in this?
ERIN VANDERHOOF, STAFF WRITER, VANITY FAIR: Well, one of the things that the palace has really tried over the, you know especially the entire time that this has been a scandal again since 2019, is to emphasize that they, you know, don't have any special relationships with law enforcement in these situations. And, you know, every time I've been in contact with the palace over the last year on this matter, it's always been, you know, the victims are what we are most, you know, that we are trying to protect and that they want to continue doing their work and have done you know, I think that we struggled at "Vanity Fair" last fall to come up with a strong enough way to describe what the significance of Andrew losing those titles was, because I think it was a, you know, it was Charles doing literally everything in his legal power to draw that separation.
HUNT: I want to show Max Foster some of how Londoners reacted today and just kind of get a sense from you about what you're hearing and feeling on the ground there in London. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whatever happens to him, I think he deserves.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought he'd go into hiding and get away with it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's only because the public probably put pressure on, and the media has put pressure on to have him questioned, but he'll probably disappear to some country where he won't be extradited.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm a royalist myself. I do follow the royal family. I do support them. So, hearing that from a member of the royal family is really -- you know, it's the last straw, isn't it, really.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Max, where is the British public on the royal family and their role in all of this,
FOSTER: Well, there's not a big Republican movement in this country but a group called Republic, which is the main group working to bring the monarchy down, actually reported this case to Thames Valley Police, which started this whole process. So, they feel they've got some real momentum here. I think it's interesting when you speak to members of the public like that, there is support for the monarchy. They do feel that the monarchy represents them, and I think there's a real sense that Charles has really stepped into that role, and they're quite proud of that.
And so, you know, the bad cop here is certainly Andrew. And everyone wants to get rid of him. And the question is, has Charles done enough? So there's very little sympathy for him.
So as long as that narrative continues, I think the monarchy will be okay. I just think that if there's anything that implicates the monarchy, it's going to be trouble for them, too.
HUNT: For sure.
All right. Max Foster, Sally Bedell Smith, Erin Vanderhoof, thank you very much for your time today. I really appreciate it.
Coming up next here in THE ARENA, what President Trump is telling CNN in his first comments on the arrest of Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, and what he's not saying.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think it's very sad. I think it's so bad for the royal family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:33:40]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think it's a shame. I think it's very sad. I think it's so bad for the royal family. Its a very, very sad. To me, it's a very sad thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: President Trump, reacting to the stunning news out of the U.K. today that Prince Andrew was arrested on suspicion of misconduct in public office.
For months, Trump has called the Epstein files, quote, "boring", quote, "made up," quote, "a Democratic hoax". But they're having very real consequences overseas.
The international reaction to the Epstein files stands in many ways in striking contrast to the DOJ's memo last summer when they said this, quote, "We did not uncover evidence that could predicate an investigation against uncharged third parties". As investigations are opened into people with ties to Epstein overseas, so far in the U.S., there has been relatively little accountability.
My panel is here in THE ARENA. CNN contributor, "New York Times" journalist Lulu Garcia-Navarro; CNN political commentator Jonah Goldberg; Democratic strategist, former adviser -- senior advisor to the Harris and Biden presidential campaigns, Adrienne Elrod; and Republican strategist, former RNC communications director, Doug Heye.
We're also joined by former Chicago mayor, CNN's senior political and global affairs commentator, Rahm Emanuel.
Rahm, let me start with you. And you know what? I just -- I want to play.
[16:35:00]
We have -- we have kind of a -- don't know if you want to call it a greatest hits or a punch list, it's a whole bunch of the comments that Donald Trump has made about Jeffrey Epstein between July and December of last year. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Are people still talking about this guy, this creep? That is unbelievable.
These files were made up by Comey. They were made up by Obama.
I don't understand why the Jeffrey Epstein case would be of interest to anybody. It's pretty boring stuff.
It's just a hoax the whole Epstein thing is a Democrat hoax.
You just keep going on the Epstein files. And what the Epstein is, is a Democrat hoax.
This whole thing is with Epstein is a way of trying to deflect from the tremendous success that the Republican Party has.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Why is President Trump so focused on making the Epstein files exit stage left of the public discourse?
RAHM EMANUEL, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL & GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: Well, you know that famous scene where the police officer says, move on nothing to see here? That's the -- that's exactly what's going on here. And I think all of us are -- can make our own judgment. There's three million additional pages of documents. Almost 50 percent of the documents haven't been released and I think he's doing everything he can to make sure that nobody watches that commenting on everybody else.
I do think if you look at Great Britain and you look at Norway, no title protects you from the law. And that is not true here in the United States, because we have actually have a Justice Department that is not acting like a protector of law. It's acting like it's a protector of people. And that's what's come across here.
So, my view, protect the victims, get all the pages out. Everybody else then can make a judgment of what is either insignificant, according to the president or of significance, and has consequences associated with it.
HUNT: Yeah. Jonah Goldberg, how do you explain the contrast between the international reaction to what is being learned and the reaction that we're seeing, or lack of one here in the United States?
JONAH GOLDBERG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah. To sort of pick up on what Rahm said, it's a kind of a thumbsucker of an explanation, but I think America is kind of Europeanizing and Europe is Americanizing.
And what I mean by that is that -- you know, Alexis de Tocqueville talks about this, about how nobility and aristocracy can absorb a lot of hypocrisy. And so, in Europe, if you're a king or a duke you can get away with a lot of skeevy stuff because it's like your prerogatives. And in America, everyone is supposed to have the same moral standard, because were supposed to be equal in the eyes of God and government and all that kind of stuff. That's been changing.
European governments are a little embarrassed by their monarchies and their royal families and their aristocracies. And America is trying to create ones in the terms of like the Trump family and these dynasties and the way they talk about Trump and his family is the way you would talk about it if we actually had a hereditary dynasty. And that cultural weirdness is very strange to me.
LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think that's true. I think what we are seeing here is a particular administration trying to protect itself and a particular person in Donald Trump trying to protect himself because what Rahm didn't say is that the name Donald Trump is all over the Epstein files. And so, you know, I think actually, it has been very vexing to this administration that this is a persistent issue, that the public is very interested in.
We have seen an enormous appetite from the American people for justice and accountability. We have not seen the government act on that, but we have certainly seen people want it. And we have even seen congress demand it through legislation. And so, I think there's a real difference between America and what this administration is doing.
HUNT: Well, let's watch --
GOLDBERG: I agree with that, but I think both things can be true.
HUNT: Let's watch what Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene had to say about this on Friday, because you'll remember, she was one of the presidents staunchest allies for quite some time. And this was the issue that really broke what had previously been a strong bond between them. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R), FORMER GEORGIA CONGRESSWOMAN: That fight to release Epstein files came directly from President Trump. And I know a lot of people have a hard time with that, but that is the truth. He fought the hardest to stop these files from being released, and the only reason that he signed our bill that we passed in the House was because he had to. It became a massive political problem. Biggest political miscalculation in Donald Trump's career was calling this a hoax, fighting the release of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Doug Heye, a lot of people who were focused on the Epstein files were at various points called conspiracy theorists, et cetera. The information that's in the files is showing exactly what so many people warned that it would show which is people, particularly men, but sometimes aided by other women in power, right, doing things getting away with things that regular people would not be allowed to get away with in their own lives and doing terrible things.
[16:40:00]
And by the way, not a partisan problem, former Republican president or current Republican president, former Democratic president, Hollywood leaders, tech leaders, the whole thing, it's all there.
DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yeah. Look, it's the oldest story that, you know, in our human history, this has always been the case going back to the Romans and the Greeks and so forth.
But I go back and I look at the politics of this. I think of a visit that I made to Lake Ozarks, Missouri, over this past summer. And in Lake of the Ozarks -- in Lake Ozark, the town, there's a strip of little bars and restaurants and so forth, and there's a little small business called Teresa's Trump Shop. So, I walked in and it sells all your, you know, garden variety Trump paraphernalia.
And I asked the lady full disclosure, I don't know if this was Teresa herself. I said, do you have anything about release the Epstein files? And she joked and said, no, but we probably should. And then she got serious and said, what's the holdup?
This is somebody whose daily life is invested in Donald Trump, and she's not happy that these files haven't come out. And what we've learned from King Charles today that in some cases, blood is not thicker than water, that you can make this the right decision to do the right thing here and real credit to King Charles for what he's done. We need to release these files to get to the bottom of this. And if there's nothing to worry about, then you should be able to fulfill the promise that you've made from day one on this.
HUNT: There's some complicated family ties. The blood ties over there, different from many families.
But, Adrienne, this has obviously dragged -- I mean, you spent many years working with Bill and Hillary Clinton. Bill Clinton is obviously pictured with Jeffrey Epstein, shows up in the files. He and Hillary Clinton are both set to be deposed.
Do you think it's fair she's being deposed in this as well? We're a little bit -- well, hang on, let me -- let me play this for you because I think it sort of sets it up, too. This was Howard Lutnick, who's still working for President Trump, by the way, position of power here in the United States and Senator Chris Coons, who I've known for many years, just watched their exchange. And you'll understand why we're playing it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD LUTNICK, COMMERCE SECRETARY: Look, I looked through the millions of documents for my name, just like everybody else.
SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): You said casually, well, I looked at my name and how it appeared in them, as does everyone. No, everyone isn't worried about their names being in the Epstein files.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: I mean, that's the thing, right? Everyone isn't worried about their names being in the Epstein files. So, what do you think the explanation is going to be from the Clintons to the committee?
ADRIENNE ELROD, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I mean, first of all, I think they're going to you know, be very forthcoming and be very transparent. Hillary, as you may have seen, gave an interview when she was at the Munich security conference a couple of days ago where she basically was like, yeah, I never met the guy. I mean, I just, you know, I'm happy to testify, happy to go have this conversation.
HUNT: But what does it say? I mean, because there's two pieces here, right? Like you know, Bill Clinton, there may be some accountability there. I am interested, like, why is Hillary being dragged into --
ELROD: I mean, she shouldn't be dragged into it but I think --.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: The relationship with Ghislaine Maxwell, right, and her foundation. I mean, I think that's -- that's the issue. I don't think it's --
HUNT: So you think it's fair game?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: You know, what do I think? I don't know. No, I really don't know.
I -- you know, on the one hand, I don't think so. But on the other hand, I just feel like, you know, every -- if you've got a connection and you've taken money and you had her on, you know, in your orbit, she is also someone who is in prison.
HUNT: Ghislaine Maxwell.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Ghislaine Maxwell -- yes, not Hillary Clinton. Ghislaine Maxwell is in prison for what she did.
HUNT: Right.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: And so, this isn't someone who also is crime free. And she had -- she had a relationship with Ghislaine.
HUNT: Last word. We're going to take a break.
ELROD: Well, I like -- look, at the end of the day -- I think at the end of the day when the Oversight Committee, when a lot of Democrats voted to hold the Clintons in contempt, I think it flipped. I think it changed everything. And I think they're coming forward, and I think they're prepared and they're going to be exonerated just like they have been all along.
HUNT: All right. We're going to take a quick break. But this conversation is clearly one that we should spend some more time having.
Rahm Emanuel is going to stay with us in addition to our panel. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:48:23]
HUNT: All right. Welcome back.
We're going to continue the conversation we've been having here with the panel. Rahm Emanuel is also with us.
Jonah Goldberg, I want to start with you, because apparently you want to push back on something I said.
GOLDBERG: So, you describe --
HUNT: Go ahead.
GOLDBERG: You describe this as a bipartisan thing. You got the current Republican president, got the next Democratic president. That's fair -- that's accurate. It's worth pointing out that the time frame that we're talking about, Howard Lutnick was a sleazy New York Democrat, Donald Trump was a sleazy New York Democrat.
Sleazy New York Democrats have taken over big chunks of the Republican Party, but Mitt Romney's not in there.
HUNT: Well, that's a slightly --
GOLDBERG: George W. Bush is not in there.
HUNT: Well, okay, fair.
GOLDBERG: You know, I mean, there are like --
HUNT: I have to say, both religious men of, you know?
GOLDBERG: Yes, like non-prosperity gospel Christians and they're not in there. I mean, that's sort of my point is that one of the things that this highlights, because of the time frame we're talking about, is the radical change of the GOP in ways that draws from a cultural set that used to call themselves Democrats.
HUNT: Rahm, can I get you to respond to that? Because, I mean -- listen, like, you know, you can search -- I don't know if I should ask on TV whether or not your -- your name appears in the Epstein files, which we need to be clear, there are many names that appear okay. There are many names that appear that, you know, somebody was forwarded an email or whatever.
But, you know, a lot of these people personally, right? A lot of the people that are really getting pulled into this, you've worked with them. You understand the universe that they've been in. Youve operated in it at a very high level.
Can you help me understand why it is that so many of these, particularly men didn't look around and say, I should not be doing this, I should not be here. This is a bad idea because that's the piece of it -- you know, as I was a very young woman at the time, that a lot of this was going on and like, I'm sorry, you're not supposed to do this kind of stuff. And I mean, you're just not supposed to do it. I think they do it.
EMANUEL: I think -- Kasie, I think you have the answer in your own question, which is you're not supposed to do this stuff. And my one other rule of life, which should have been applied here to a number of people, when somebody is so friendly, they're not your friends. That's basically it.
And here's a guy that networked his way through, and you didn't have a moral compass or an ethical compass to put your hand up and say, no. Some people did. And so, you have very powerful people. And the problem is we have a culture that is built up over years that think that because of your power, you're above the law.
That's the juxtaposition I think we should all draw from what's going on in both Norway and in Great Britain. Titles don't hold you above the law. They actually -- the law is more important than that.
That is not true here in the United States. While there's a number of individuals paying a price professionally, quote/unquote, in their private life -- because in the private sector, that's not true in the public sector. And I think I want to come back to this -- half the documents by this Justice Department have not been released.
They also, in the last dump of material, the names and pictures of individual and victims was released. And I think it was done as an attempt to intimidate them.
HUNT: As an attempt --
EMANUEL: Was not sloppy work. Yes. Yes.
So -- my view, I mean without, you know, Jonas joining the party line here, I actually think it's one of a culture of the elite and establishment that think that we were above the law. And you look at the emails, you look at the conduct -- titles, position is not more important than law. That is about accountability.
And in my view, get the other three million pages out and we'll see where all this goes.
HUNT: I mean, Jonah Goldberg, I don't know if Steve Bannon was ever a Democrat. He's gotten caught up in this.
GOLDBERG: Yeah. No, that's fair. I'm not -- I'm just saying that there's a different cultural milieu. And look, I think Steve Bannon has --
EMANUEL: Jonah, you can have those guys.
GOLDBERG: Yeah.
EMANUEL: You can have them.
GOLDBERG: And I think there's a real -- there's a -- there's a real irony here is that today we have them hanging a giant multi-story banner of Donald Trump's face over the Justice Department -- which, look, there's been one of those in front of the Labor Department for a while thought that was creepy but this is super creepy, because the whole point of the Justice Department is that it's not supposed to be personal.
HUNT: Yeah. I mean, this is -- this is what it looks like.
GOLDBERG: Yeah. It's gross.
EMANUEL: Kasie, can I jump in?
HUNT: Please.
EMANUEL: Can I jump in?
On one point on this, you know, there is -- and now, we're all learning the hard lesson. We come out of Watergate. There is a reason we had culturally set up in the norm, set up of an independent judiciary, so you don't politicize the Justice Department.
I also think, though, in the end of the day, like the earlier example, you're going to see what's happening across the country, low turnout among Republicans, because the president of the United States has abandoned and betrayed the MAGA voters, both from the Epstein files, trying to get his name on every airport on every building across the place, worried about his family's checkbook, not your checkbook.
They feel betrayed and turned on by this president. And the Republicans in the House and Senate are going to pay the price for Donald Trump's actions.
HUNT: Rahm, what do you think is the fundamental difference between a person who was willing to engage with and get caught up in Jeffrey Epstein's world, and a person who may have had the opportunity to do so and didn't.
EMANUEL: A moral and ethical compass probably goes practices his or her faith well. I mean, I don't -- the idea that you can walk in and this and not have your own moral compass set off and say this is wrong, and then take the steps to actually turn this person in and even and then the worst case, after he serves time and then continued those relationships, I think you should ask the people that actually turned a blind eye, turned the page over, and kept dealing with them.
They'll be a better insightful reflection and hopefully self- awareness. What in God's name had them deal with this person after the fact, let alone before the fact, and not say no to this and call the whistle on it?
HUNT: Does anyone else want to take that question? What's the difference between somebody who did and somebody who didn't?
HEYE: Well, I'll sort of to what he -- to what Rahm Emanuel said earlier. I remember saying to Eric Cantor one time when he was majority leader, remember, the more somebody compliments you, the less you should believe them. And as Jeffrey Epstein has been throwing money and compliments and trips and all of these at person after person, it's very easy to just say yes and, you know as we learn about the frog, the water just gets a little warmer, a little warmer and a little warmer.
And the challenge for this administration and anybody who's in this list is I remember being in London the day that then Lord Mandelson had to resign, and it was all anybody would talk about. We thought it was a political earthquake. This today in the U.K. is much bigger than that.
[16:55:00]
And you can't not only contain it, you can't tell what direction it's going to go to. Anybody who had any interaction with this guy should be very nervous.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: And I think that's the thing that really the U.K. issue shows. Just to wrap it up with a bow, I don't think King Charles gets away from this. He is trying to absolutely step away from his brother. But at the end of the day, you know, they knew what was going on for quite some time.
HUNT: It's going to be tough.
All right. Rahm Emanuel, thanks to you, we -- Jake Tapper is going to kill me.
EMANUEL: Okay. Well, we don't want that to happen.
HUNT: Text me. Okay? And we'll talk about it next time. Rahm, thank you.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HUNT: All right. Thanks very much for my panel. Really appreciate you all.
Thanks to you at home for watching as well don't go anywhere.
Jake Tapper is standing by for "THE LEAD". Hi, Jake.
