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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt

Trump To Deliver State Of The Union To Divided & Frustrated Nation. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired February 24, 2026 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:04]

JACKIE WATTLES, CNN SPACE AND SCIENCE WRITER: That's just a couple hundred miles away, and the moon is a quarter million miles away. There's radiation issues, communication blackout issues, a lot to deal with. And all this, of course, is happening as the U.S. considers itself to be in a new space race, this time with China rather than the Soviet Union.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Yeah, huge mission, just like your first live shot on our show, which is also huge, Jackie. And we welcome you, Jackie Wattles. Thank you so much for taking us through that.

"THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT" starts right now.

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hi. everyone. Welcome to THE ARENA. I'm Kasie Hunt. It's great to have you with us on this Tuesday, State of the Union Day, because as we come on the air, we are just hours away from the first State of the Union Address of Donald Trump's second term.

The president says it's going to be a long one. Just one year after he set the record for the longest address to a joint session of Congress ever, the question. of course, is what will he say? And there's always this question, will the president's big moment be overshadowed by a moment like one of these?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: By the year 2042, the entire system would be exhausted and bankrupt if steps are not taken to avert that outcome.

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: The reforms -- the reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally.

REP. JOE WILSON (R-SC): You lie!

OBAMA: It's not true.

JOE BIDEN, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I'm not saying it's a majority of you. I don't even think it's even a significant but it's being proposed by --

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: The chair now directs the sergeant at arms to restore order. Remove this gentleman from the chamber.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

HUNT: As you can see, those moments seem to have gotten worse over time. Tonight, President Trump will address a Congress that is just barely controlled by Republicans.

I mean, the barest of majorities. And it's a party that's at a make- or-break point with a president whose approval rating is as low as it's ever been.

Now, unlike President Trump, most of the Republicans in the chamber tonight are facing an election in November. Issue number one, by far the economy. But a reminder this president has been far from disciplined in his messaging on what Americans say is their top issue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now, inflation is essentially gone.

Look at that. Our prices are coming down. Their prices. It's a hoax.

You notice what word have you not heard over the last two weeks? Affordability. Because I've won. I've won affordability.

We have a country that's now doing well. We have the greatest economy we've ever had.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So, what'll it be tonight? Will affordability be real? Will it be a hoax? Will everything be Biden's fault? Or will President Trump claim ownership of this economy?

Let's get off the sidelines, head into THE ARENA. My panel is here.

CNN political analyst, White House correspondent for "The New York Times", Zolan Kanno-Youngs; CNN anchor, chief political correspondent Dana Bash; former Biden White House communications director, Kate Bedingfield; former Trump campaign adviser David Urban, CNN political commentators.

And of course, we're also joined at the White House by CNN's senior White House correspondent, Kristen Holmes.

But, Dana, I want to start with you because, of course you and other anchors just had quite a long lunch, as I understand it with the president of the United States, a tradition, a longstanding tradition. What did you learn?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, just -- let's start on the big issue that people care the most about, which is, as you mentioned, of course, is the economy. The president, as he has said, publicly reiterated privately how much he thinks the economy is doing better than it has in the past, and talked a lot about -- about that, generally speaking, specifically that he is going to say tonight that the country is about to have the best three years economically in the nation's history and it's already started.

He's going to advocate for some new tax cuts although we're not sure how that actually is going to manifest itself when it comes to legislation or whether he'll suggest other ways to do it, or maybe just not get specific. Just say it would be nice to have more tax cuts.

One of the things that we can report is, I think, something that I find fascinating because it's on that affordability question, even though he doesn't use that word and that is a deal that they call a ratepayer protection plan. It is a deal that he will say that the administration made with A.I. companies to have them, the companies pay for the increasing costs from A.I. data centers across the country which is a huge issue for consumers. It was a big issue politically in 2025.

HUNT: These tech companies are building these huge data centers, and its jacking up everybody's electric --

BASH: Correct. Right, correct. And this has been one of the top issues when you use that term affordability for Americans across the country.

[16:05:07]

So, if, in fact, these A.I. companies do agree to bear the cost of the increase in energy is going to be something that he can certainly point to on something that is making people's lives very difficult with their finances.

HUNT: Right. Well, and Kristen Holmes, I mean, to this point, and I want to come back to dana on Iran in just a second. But I know you've been talking to Republicans all day to Republican sources. What are you hearing from them?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Look, they want him to stay on affordability, as you mentioned, a lot of these people, they are going to be on the midterm ticket. And President Trump himself is not on the ballot, but his baggage certainly will be. And they know that the most important thing to Americans right now is this conversation around the economy.

I spoke to one Republican operative who viewed this as a reset moment, a moment for President Trump and the White House to really come together in terms of what their strategy and messaging on the economy and on affordability is going to be moving forward.

Now, they have tried this before multiple times. We saw them. You played a clip just last week in Georgia in which he essentially said, no one's talking about affordability because we solved that problem.

That's not the messaging that Republicans want to hear. They want to hear him be more empathetic. This has been something that not just his own officials, but also outside advisers and allies have been guiding or urging the president to do to have a more sympathetic tone when it comes to the economy, to acknowledge that not everything is fixed, but instead that its going in the right direction and outline why he believes it is going in the right direction.

But of course, it is President Trump. And as we just saw on last Thursday when he went out there to give his message on the economy, he can quickly go off message, which is something Republicans are waiting to see.

HUNT: Indeed. All right. Kristen Holmes, for us at the White House, Kristen settling in for a long night thank you for being here with us at this hour. We really appreciate it.

Dana, I want to circle back to the news lines that did come out of this lunch as well on a different topic which is Iran. You and our colleague Jake Tapper were writing about this.

I want to put up just to kind of set the stage here. What people told us in our poll this week, they actually cared about. And you can see 57 percent say the cost of living, just 2 percent say that foreign policy is something that they want to address, see addressed.

But the president right now, I mean, all these military assets are staged in the Middle East. This seems to be something that has been imminent for quite some time. What did you learn?

BASH: Well, there are negotiations. First of all, that poll is I -- every time I see it, it's just remarkable foreign policy basically doesn't register. I mean, that's how -- that's how low it is.

HUNT: That's America first for you right there, by the way.

BASH: Yeah. No, it is, it is. There are negotiations going on and they are going to continue to go on. Theres a big meeting about how those are going to fair on Thursday.

What the president said is Iran just wants to make a deal more than I do, but they just can't say the sacred phrase, "We won't build nuclear weapons." That's the crux of it. I mean, there are a lot of other things going on here with regard to the pressures on the president. And what's happening inside Iran, the protests, which have been disgustingly deadly. The regime has killed thousands and thousands of people, and what they have done to sponsor terrorism around the region and around the world.

But the focus of these talks is about the nuclear capability and the ability to build a nuclear weapon. And so, the question that is not answerable is what happens if those talks, which have been going on for some time, really don't see any fruition at all, because he does have all of those military assets around it.

HUNT: Right, and of course, some allies in his ear telling him that he should strike pretty aggressively.

David Urban, big picture here. Are you confident that the president can stay where he needs to be tonight in terms of what Americans care about? DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Oh, well --

(LAUGHTER)

HUNT: Thank you for your honesty.

URBAN: Listen, listen, I love Donald -- listen. I love Donald Trump. I love Donald Trump. I -- you know, I voted for the president. I worked for the president. I've got a great deal of admiration for him.

But you know, you've seen the weave. We've all seen the weave. And you know, we were talking before we came out how long it's going to be, what gets loaded in the teleprompter and what gets delivered is two different things every time Donald Trump gets up.

And so, there's a lot of turf to cover. He's going to, you know, talk about how in his 250th year of this great republic, things are going swimmingly and you know, I think people want to hear -- they do want to hear like I feel your pain moment, right? They want to be able to say like the --

HUNT: Not really his strong suit.

URBAN: The president gets it, right? But -- you know, it is -- you will hear I think you'll hear some of blame of Joe Biden because we've seen this surrogates out already kind of talking about this.

We're in such a great hole economically that we are digging out and give us a quarter or two. And I do think this is -- this will bear fruit in Q1 or Q2 of this year.

HUNT: Is that like the one or two weeks thing that he also said?

URBAN: It's not one or two weeks.

HUNT: It's going to be -- it's going to take -- it's going to take some time. But I do think Americans' economic lives will improve dramatically once they file these tax returns. Things are going to get better. You -- real income growth has been -- has been on the way up. Inflation is down, GDP is up. All the -- all the barometers that predict how things are going to go. But yet, when people put their hand in their pocket to get money to pump gas or go buy pizza for their kids, there's not as much jingle in their jingle.

And so, they are -- you know, you can't convince them, right? You can't convince them until they experience it themselves.

HUNT: Yeah, fair enough.

URBAN: I think the president needs to say, I hear you, just hang with us people, because we're going to get you there.

ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I feel like we -- we've been in this cycle before, you know, it's repeated itself a bit. I do remember during the campaign, the president's allies, his aides saying talk about the economy, right? You know, empathize with folks, talk about --

URBAN: How he did it, at the end? He went to McDonald's. He rode in a garbage truck. I mean, he was -- he was on message.

KANNO-YOUNGS: He appealed to the populist message, but he also often diverged to immigration. He also often went to the retribution stuff as well. There's been plenty of times, even in the last year, that his own aides have said -- look, we got to talk more about the economy and cost of living. And he said, well, I'm not getting enough credit on border crossings and what have you.

KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right, because --

KANNON-YOUNGS: There's reason to think that he would -- he would --

BEDINGFIELD: Right, because Donald Trump has shown us time and time again that he only feels his own pain. He does not feel other people's pain. And so, if the task for him tonight is to get up and to say, America, I feel your pain, that is not something that he has traditionally been able to do.

So I think a big question tonight is, are we going to see in this moment where he has this platform, where he knows a lot of eyes are on him? Is he going to use it as he tends to in these moments, as an opportunity to grind axes, to raise 2020, and the belief that his belief that he won the election, is he going to focus on the things that he thinks that he has accomplished for himself? You know, he's going to talk about the ballroom or is he going to deliver a message that is actually about the American people?

We don't often see him do that in this moment. We'll see. Maybe tonight, maybe tonight.

URBAN: It will be 50 years. We got the hockey team coming, right? Theres going to be a lot --

HUNT: They have put some things in the teleprompter.

URBAN: There's going to be -- there's going to be this feel good a lot of the cheerleader in chief moment, I think. There'll be a lot of cheerleader in chief moment on America and how great we are.

BEDINGFIELD: And then there's --

URBAN: American exceptionalism.

BASH: I -- just one thing I want to say, and this might sound like captain obvious, but it isn't for somebody who is president is out speaking every single day. He recognizes that this is a moment that this is. And he's also somebody who understands audience. Right, David, that this is the biggest audience and it matters -- and it matters, but that that this is the time where he can get people's attention.

HUNT: Well, and I actually have a question about that, right? Like, I mean, he absolutely understands it, right? I mean, Donald Trump is a man of, of his own era, right, where television, you know, broadcast TV, the invention of cable news, "Time Magazine". Right, if you go into his office or his office in Trump Tower, you can see it on the wall.

How long do you think and what is -- what do you think is his sense of how long? Whatever impact this speech has, how long does it last anymore in the modern media environment?

BEDINGFIELD: Look, I would -- I would say not all that long. I mean, and I think that the pieces that will actually will may have a shelf life longer than you know, maybe 48, 72 hours are going to be the unscripted moments, the moments that feel unpredictable, a moment where he maybe engages, you know, unpredictably with somebody in the -- in the hall or, you know, says something funny. Those are the moments that will live on social media and elsewhere after -- long after the half life of the broadcast.

And it is not, I don't think -- I don't think you can reasonably argue that it is as significant that the State of the Union is as significant a media moment as it was even 10 years ago.

HUNT: To that point, right, we're only -- we're only geeking out watching the whole thing. Everyone else is going to watch it tomorrow on X, on whatever, Bluesky, TikTok, they're going to consume it in a very digestible snackable thing.

BASH: Except for all the people watching on CNN tonight

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: You know, young people -- people in the world don't consume the State of the Union like they used to, right? They're going to consume it in different ways, like we've got, you know, CNN.com. We'll be going there be looking for the viral.

HUNT: You can stream on all access --

(LAUGHTER)

KANNO-YOUNGS: This is why the response from the audience may also matter just as much, right?

URBAN: Right.

KANNO-YOUNGS: Do we actually have a back and forth that became one of the more memorable moments of the previous President Joe Biden's State of the Union, right? So I'm not just watching President Trump here. I'm also watching to see how Democrats respond in the audience as well. I know leadership has been saying to remain disciplined and sort of let the attention be on the president. But who knows?

URBAN: The troublemakers --

KANNON: That's right. Many of them aren't going. URBAN: Troublemakers aren't going.

BEDINGFIELD: Exactly. At this point, they're counterprogramming basically for social media, right? I mean, they're -- they are not trying to steal a clip of Trump's broadcast experience tonight. They're creating their own moment.

URBAN: Olympic hockey gold going to be the star tonight, my prediction.

HUNT: I do -- I do think we will see quite a bit of that.

All right. So to all this point of what we've been talking about, you don't just have to consume it on your phone after the fact. You can join CNN tonight for in-depth coverage and analysis. Dana will be here. Jake will be here. I will be here. The whole team will be here.

The State of the Union special live coverage begins at 8:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN. You can also stream on the CNN all access app. We're trying to make it as easy as possible for you to join us.

Coming up next here in THE ARENA, a potentially big development in the Epstein files, the Justice Department now responding to an allegation from a top Democrat that the DOJ withheld releasing some documents related to an accusation against President Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ROBERT GARCIA (D-CA): We understand. And it's been confirmed that those -- those documents have been removed likely pertain to some allegations that the survivor made about President Trump. And so, what's important now is the DOJ explained to us, why were those documents removed?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:20:29]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GARCIA: I went to the DOJ files search room yesterday to look for these documents that are in the manifest document and they should be in there and they're not there. These documents relate to a survivor that has made serious allegations about the president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: The top Democrat on the House Oversight Committee, Congressman Robert Garcia there saying today the Justice Department has appeared to withhold some documents related to Donald Trump in its release of files related to the convicted sex offender, Jeffrey Epstein. That includes FBI interviews with a survivor who alleged sexual abuse by Trump. The DOJ responding this afternoon saying, quote, the file that listed

all interviews was temporarily removed for victim redactions and was back up by Thursday. We've not deleted anything. And as we have always said, all documents responsive were produced. Those not fall within one of the following categories, duplicates privileged part of an ongoing federal investigation.

Congressman Garcia tells CNN he's reviewed a manifest of documents and interviews with the survivor and says that while some underlying material and records are available from DOJ, others are not. This, of course, comes as a number of Democrats have invited Epstein survivors to attend the State of the Union tonight.

David Urban, is this Department of Justice explanation plausible here?

URBAN: So, listen, so I think Congressman Garcia is like smoking Dutch cleanser or something. In the four years of you know, the Biden administration, they threw the kitchen sink. If they could find one bad thing about Donald Trump, they would have. If there was something nefarious in these files, they would have been all over the place.

What I do think is a big mistake and is yet to be determined and not to be turned over to the Department of Justice, has not turned over their internal deliberative memos back and forth about the plea arrangement in 2008, I think is what --

HUNT: Yeah, it was essentially a sweetheart deal for Jeffrey Epstein.

URBAN: They were required under this law to turn over their internal deliberative memos at the DOJ, which they have failed to do, and which the deputy attorney general of the United States has said we're not going to do. And so, if everybody wants to understand this mystery, I don't -- it's -- these parlor games of this and that. We need to see what's in those documents to understand why this guy got such a deal. That's -- that's the crux of this whole investigation. Why did they let him off the hook? Why?

HUNT: Dana Bash, I mean, I think that the thing that is very important to underscore here, obviously, Garcia is talking about something very specific, that it would be an allegation against the current president. What we are learning from the Epstein files is a pox on everyone's house who is in power, who has held power in the time that this man was around.

And while on the one hand, David, I do take your point. On the other hand, we have learned so much from what has come out in these files, and there has been an incredible show of accountability in the United Kingdom anyway, over something that the U.S. FBI essentially said, well, there's nothing in here that's worth charging anybody else for.

BASH: Right. The accountability has been with people losing their jobs, being forced to resign from Wall Street to academia. And we're talking about figures who have a lot of experience and are very high profile from -- you know, Larry Summers at Harvard got himself into trouble.

HUNT: And Barack Obama's former --

BASH: And Barack Obama. Exactly

URBAN: Bob Kerrey today.

BASH: Who -- who's that?

URBAN: Former -- former --

HUNT: Bob Kerrey.

BASH: Yeah exactly. So. Right. So that is happening but not sort of the next level is they're losing their livelihood right now. But justice is a different question and still to this minute, the DOJ, the FBI insists that there is nothing to prosecute anybody on.

URBAN: Yeah. And just to point out, I mean, to step on you, but point out real quickly, the U.K., it's about leaking sensitive or classified material to Jeffrey Epstein. That's what the --

HUNT: Abuse of public office. It's not sex crimes.

URBAN: But not sex crimes, right. So it's like they disclose things to him which were classified or secret which they shouldn't have and that's what they're being prosecuted for.

BASH: But it's kind of like Al Capone getting, you know, prosecuted on taxes.

HUNT: Right.

BASH: You get them how you get them.

URBAN: Yeah, no, no. But I'm saying, there doesn't appear -- well, these other individuals have they consorted with a known pedophile, right? A person who was charged, there doesn't seem to be criminal charges that they could be brought against any of these individuals. Bad judgment charges -- yes, but nothing criminal at this point.

[16:25:01]

BEDINGFIELD: But the Justice Department. Yes, and the Justice Department's handling of this entire affair from the start under Pam Bondi is part of the reason that we are in this situation where the, you know, the words of the Justice Department can't be trusted in terms of what, you know, when they're saying, well, there's not --

HUNT: The list was on her desk, right, right.

BEDINGFIELD: The list was on her desk. This is all -- the interest was in part ginned up by her own and the Trump administrations own response and so to now turn around and say, well, trust us, you know these documents aren't there because of this procedural -- you know, this process. And there will be they'll be returned. And you should just -- you should just trust us. There's nothing there that's problematic. URBAN: I'm just saying --

BEDINGFIELD: How could we -- I mean, we saw reporting, you know, what was it six months ago? Eight months ago, I believe "The Wall Street Journal" broke reporting that Bondi had came to the White House and briefed Trump, that his name was in the files. So --

URBAN: What did the team Biden do on this? Remind me. Nothing.

BEDINGFIELD: Follow the law and did not release information while Ghislaine Maxwell was a --

HUNT: Okay, pox on all houses. It's the Trump people that have the control of it right now, and it's their base that wanted this out there so aggressively. I mean, they're the ones Bondi called in, handed them binders, and the people all came out of that and they were like, you haven't told us anything new --

URBAN: I think there's been incredible.

KANNO-YOUNGS: That wanted this also because many of the top people that are in the Justice Department also raised expectations for not just releasing these files, but they're handling and what would be in it. The criminal wrongdoing thing is one -- is one topic of discussion. Almost a separate one is the scrutiny over the handling and the way that the Justice Department has released these files as well. This is one data point today that Robert Garcia is talking about.

We've also seen at times that victim information has been released in these files that survivors did not want out there as well. We've seen scrutiny in terms of the timing and meeting the deadline as well of releasing these files.

So, it's -- agreed. It's one thing to talk about, okay where are we drawing a connection to actual criminal wrongdoing. But the scrutiny as far as the administration's handling of these files, which they themselves during the campaign said should be released, is almost a much more broad sort of separate matter.

HUNT: Yeah. Well, I mean, worth noting a couple of things. And I want to touch briefly on a different topic, but Robert Garcia was on this program last week saying that he thought Merrick Garland should go and answer questions about what the Biden administration did or didn't do. So there's that.

URBAN: I like him now again.

HUNT: Well, Democrats have their own issues with him for other reasons.

But, you know, I think one of the big questions, too that I have and this this plays into our next topic here is where are the American public draws the line in terms of people who hold public office, right? When we think about accountability, corporate America, to your point has been willing to hold some of these folks accountable but voters have shown that they have a different bar in terms of who they believe.

Now, MAGA, in the case of the Epstein files, has split with Donald Trump in a way that we haven't seen them. But there is one man in the spotlight here on something unrelated, not the Epstein files, but a personal matter. And this matters incredibly, because he is one Republican member of Congress, that's the size of the House speaker's majority at the moment.

But our colleague Manu Raju caught up with Congressman Tony Gonzales, who has been dealing with text messages that were publicly released that show illuminate his relationship with a staffer who died by suicide.

Let's watch what Manu had to say with him today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Are those real text messages you said.

REP. TONY GONZALES (R-TX): I'm not going to resign. I work every day for the people of Texas.

RAJU: Did you carry it?

GONZALES: And there will be an opportunity for all the details and facts to come out. What you've seen is not all the facts.

RAJU: Did you -- did you have an extramarital affair with the staff?

GONZALES: What you've seen is not all the facts. And there'll be -- there'll be an ample time for all of that to come out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: I mean, so, Dana, he has a primary that is that is more in play now because of this. But he didn't answer Manu's question. He asked, are the texts real? No, I'm not going to resign. Manu didn't ask if he was going to resign or not.

BASH: This is a huge problem for -- I mean, him personally. First of all, it's just a terribly sad, awful story --

HUNT: It's so tragic, yes.

BASH: -- about what happened with this woman. But just on where we are right now, the last thing Mike Johnson needs is for him to resign, is for Tony Gonzales to resign. Despite the fact that there is not exactly a lot of overt support for him. There's a lot of we got to let the process work its way through, we have to -- you know, innocent until proven guilty. All of those things.

But as you said, he's it. I mean, if Tony Gonzales, if he resigns, then there's a zero seat majority right now because -- I mean, on paper it's one. But in terms of voting, it's zero.

URBAN: It's clear he's not going to resign, but there's an election and he may not be -- he may not be reelected.

[16:30:00]

BASH: We'll see what happens in the primary.

HUNT: Again, we'll see if the voters --

URBAN: Voters will hold him accountable.

HUNT: Yeah. All right. Coming up next here in THE ARENA, just what does it take to write a primetime speech for the leader of the free world? We'll talk to someone who's done it. Presidential historian and biographer Jon Meacham will be here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It's going to be a long speech because we have so much to talk about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: We look forward to a world founded upon four essential human freedoms.

JOHN F. KENNEDY, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: The choices we make for good or ill will affect the welfare of generations yet unborn.

[16:35:00]

LYNDON B. JOHNSON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: This administration today, here and now, declares unconditional war on poverty in America.

RICHARD NIXON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: One year of Watergate is enough.

WILLIAM J. CLINTON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: The era of big government is over.

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I have never been more hopeful about America's future than I am tonight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Any president's State of the Union Address can bring us one of politics' most memorable moments. The speech, which was first televised in 1947. Perhaps the president's biggest forum outside of his inauguration to broadcast what he perceives as his accomplishments and his vision for the nation to both the country's leaders and to its people.

And as we look ahead to President Trump's address tonight, I want to bring in someone who has helped craft speeches like this who has studied presidents and worked with them over the years the historian and presidential biographer, Jon Meacham. His new book is "American Struggle: Democracy, Dissent, and the Pursuit of a More Perfect Union", anthology, it's out now.

Jon, I'm so grateful to see you. It's a blast from the past for me and, you know, we were talking earlier on the show about what tonight does and doesn't mean in the world, in the environment in which we live and, you know, we just showed a series of clips where, you know, presidents essentially had a totally unfiltered opportunity to talk to all of America all at once. And the way things have changed have essentially fractured that almost like you took a pane of glass and dropped it on the ground and shattered it.

What does that mean for -- for a president and for us as a country?

JON MEACHAM, HISTORIAN AND PRESIDENTIAL BIOGRAPHER: Well, it doesn't mean anything good for either one. Presidents -- you know, the presidency as FDR said in 1932 is not an engineering job. It's not a job about efficiency. It's preeminently a place of moral leadership. And it's a place to articulate a vision, to tell a story about not just the means by which we get someplace, but where we are going. The end, the destination, and why that matters.

And the clips you just put together are good examples of moments where presidents have, at important moments where we faced a choice one way or the other, articulated their case for it. And it's harder, more and more in this media environment, in this polarized political environment to get folks who don't think they already know what they think, right, to engage with a president. And that's I think, a break in some ways with the founding of the country.

Alexander Hamilton said that one of the things the American Constitution was supposed to do was to show that reason and deliberation could prevail against force and accident. And I think we need to get as close to reason and deliberation as we can.

HUNT: One thing, of course, that we've come to hear over and over again from presidents is that the state of our union is strong, right? I want to play a moment from President Ford, who was a little bit more honest than that back in 1975. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GERALD FORD, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I must say to you that the state of the union is not good. Millions of Americans are out of work recession and inflation are eroding the money of millions more. Prices are too high and sales are too slow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Huh? It feels familiar. And yet do you expect that Donald Trump will say anything like that tonight?

MEACHAM: I'm not a -- I'm not in the prediction business. I'm in the past business. But I'll go out on a limb here and say, I think President Ford will be alone in that category tomorrow. President Ford was an interesting and good man. And it is almost -- not -- strike almost. It is unthinkable that an American president would say that now, and there's a, you know, there's a good case to be made here. You know, FDR said during the war early on in World War Two that the news is going to get worse and worse before it gets better and better. And the American people deserve to have it straight from the shoulder.

And he was trying to establish a covenant there. You know, I'll give you the bad news. But you need to step up and do what it takes until we change the bad news into the good news. And I think there's a lot to be said for that model. It just feels as if it belongs, as you suggested, to a very different media and political environment.

HUNT: And of course, by the time, we got to President Carter and the message that he had that Americans should do something similar did not go over as well, or perhaps in the way that FDR certainly appreciated from Americans in his time.

Jon, the president has said a number of things about what the speech tonight is going to be like.

[16:40:03]

But primarily the thing we seem to have come away with is that it is likely to be long. He gave the longest ever joint address last year. Questions about whether it's going to be even longer this year.

And in your experience what makes a speech like the one the president is going to give tonight actually effective, actually convince people of what a president is trying to do?

MEACHAM: Well, you know, presidents come to that chamber to declare war, to celebrate peace, and usually to try to shift the narrative of a -- of a given presidential season. And it is striking. Both states of the union and inaugural addresses have gotten progressively longer through the years.

If you want to seriously dork out and look at the time --

HUNT: Oh!

MEACHAM: -- it's kind of -- it's kind of remarkable actually. And you know, President Reagan once gave, I think, a State of the Union that was something like 32 minutes so as recently as that you know, I think part of it again, you made a really good point about the pane of glass part of this is that they know this is the biggest audience they have, and they can't really help themselves to try to say everything they possibly can because they're not going to get this audience again until the next year.

And so, I think what makes -- what makes a speech like this successful is ever a particularly strong thematic that can, in fact, be put into a soundbite. You know, people say, think of soundbites dismissively. The sermon on the mount was full of soundbites, you know, and that's pretty memorable. HUNT: Yeah.

MEACHAM: There's -- there's nothing wrong. There's nothing wrong with being able to render something. Pithily and often, it's the most effective way of doing it.

When President Clinton said the era of big government is over, it's part of a very interesting paragraph. He also -- he then goes on to say, but we can't be cold to people.

So, it needs to be pithy. And tonight, I will go out on a limb and say, will not be.

HUNT: Well, there's, there's -- there's pithy and then there's the bob and the weave which the president seems to be very proud of. He talks about it a lot.

Jon Meacham, I'm so grateful to have you on the show. Thank you so much.

And of course, you at home, don't forget, his new book is "American Struggle: Democracy, Dissent, and the Pursuit of a More Perfect Union". It's an anthology, and it's on sale now.

All right. Coming up next here in THE ARENA, the brother of Virginia Giuffre is attending the president's State of the Union Address tonight as a guest of one lawmaker who is part of the committee that's investigating Jeffrey Epstein. They're both going to be here with us live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:47:11]

HUNT: We are just hours away from President Trump's State of the Union Address. Among the people who will be in the audience tonight, survivors of convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein and members of their families.

Joining us now, Democratic congressman from Virginia, Suhas Subramanyam, and his guest for the State of the Union, Sky Roberts, who is the brother of the late Epstein survivor, Virginia Giuffre.

Thank you both very much for being with us tonight.

Congressman, this afternoon. Excuse me.

I -- congressman, I'd like to start with you, because we heard earlier we played some of the press conference that your colleague, Congressman Robert Garcia the ranking member on the oversight committee, had about documents that were apparently, according to him withheld by the Department of Justice that relate to an allegation, he says, against President Donald Trump.

Can you tell us a little bit about what your understanding is of these missing documents? And is the committee in touch with the person in question?

REP. SUHAS SUBRAMANYAM (D-VA): To make a long story short, the president basically did not release files that made him look bad. And we don't know the extent of the files and extent of things he has not released. We just know now for a fact that he has withheld files that make him look bad, and that include an accusation from someone.

And so, this, again, is a violation of the law that he signed into law himself in December. It's a violation to the families like Sky and others, and to the victims who have asked for transparency and accountability. And while we see other countries like the U.K. hold people accountable, here in the United States, the cover up continues unfortunately.

HUNT: Yeah. And, Sky, I mean, to that point, you've said that you think this in part, along with some other things, shows that the administration is covering something up? What do you think they're covering up?

SKY ROBERTS, VIRGINIA GIUFFRE'S BROTHER: I mean, it's pretty clear as day what they're covering up. I mean, you look at file after file redaction after redaction, and we know they're covering up the perpetrators. I mean, there's no doubt. And I know because I believe my sister. I mean, she had her own deposition that she named over 40 men.

And so, it's in the files, they just -- they can't be found right now because our own DOJ is covering up for the perpetrators out there. And it is -- it is truly a disgrace to our government and to be quite embarrassing, to be honest.

HUNT: Sky, I mean, when you think about this and you think about your late sister, how do you explain it to yourself? It must be so difficult to grapple with.

ROBERTS: You have your good days and you have your bad days. We miss her tremendously. I can't even put it into words how much I miss my sister, but she'd be fighting here. She'd be standing right next to the congressman right now, having this same very conversation.

And so, I just hope that she's looking down and she's proud of what were able to accomplish on her behalf.

[16:50:01]

And she's proud of her survivor sisters and she paved the way for us, you know? She trailblazed through when nobody else wanted to believe her. And, you know, we're just here to carry that torch through that and do the best we can and get some justice for this, for them and for the next generation.

HUNT: Sky, what would you hope to hear from your president tonight?

ROBERTS: Well, I mean, I think our expectations are a bit low right now. I mean we sat less than three feet from Pam Bondi and there was no recognition at all. So, to think that we're going to get some type of recognition tonight

would be to -- to be naive. Honestly, it's there to show us a sign of strength. It's a sign of strength to say, hey, this is not going away. And I hope he does have an opportunity to look up and see the brave survivor sisters up there, to see us up there, showing unity that we will not be letting this just go by the coattails.

You have the U.K. doing far more than what we're doing here. And it's a complete disgrace of the administration. So, I hope he does start acknowledging, I think it would be a big moment for him to do so.

HUNT: Congressman, you, of course, and others of your colleagues are inviting Sky and other survivors to the speech tonight. What do you hope to hear from the president?

SUBRAMANYAM: I want the president to look them in the eyes and hopefully say he will continue the investigation and release the other 2-1/2 million files. But if he's going to lie and say that there's nothing else to see, I want him to say that to their faces.

He has not faced them. He has not been accountable to them. He has not apologized to them. And so, I want him to say what he needs to say. And I want the survivors to be there to hear it. And I want this investigation to continue, because were not going to stop until we have full accountability.

HUNT: And, Congressman, how do you explain, I mean, what we are seeing in the United Kingdom? And again, important to underscore that the former Prince Andrew, the former U.S. ambassador from the U.K. not charged with sex crimes charged with crimes against their public office, and yet still charged in the wake of the files that came out here in the United States there does not seem to be something similar here.

How do you explain it?

SUBRAMANYAM: Well, two things. One, this administration is covering up for people who are perpetrators. They are continuing to be not transparent with the American people, whereas in the U.K., they're holding former princes accountable. That hadn't happened in 400 years, right? It's a new level of accountability, even if it's for something not related to the sex trafficking, it's still a huge step forward.

The second thing is our laws are outdated. We're not letting victims sue their offenders after a certain period of time. So that's why we have Virginia's Law now and Sky is a champion of that to make sure that the victims can sue their perpetrators when they're ready to sue them.

HUNT: Congressman, Robert Garcia was -- Congressman Garcia was on this program last week, and he said that he wanted to hear from Merrick Garland, who, of course, was the attorney general under President Biden, based around the decision that there weren't additional charges to be brought, he had additional questions. Would you like to see Merrick Garland answer questions for the committee? Would you like to see other Democrats brought before the committee? SUBRAMANYAM: Absolutely. Democrats, Republicans, everyone who is

involved in either a lack of prosecution or a coverup in any sort of way should come before a committee and answer questions. This is not partisan. This is about the truth about protecting women and girls and about making sure kids grow up in a future where they don't have to worry about a cover up just because the perpetrator is a billionaire or someone powerful.

HUNT: Sky, you know, one thing that has struck me as we've learned, we've all collectively learned so much from the files that have been released is just how extensive these networks were, how it wasn't one party or the other. It wasn't one industry or the other. It was tech. It was Hollywood. It was Democrats. It was Republicans.

How do you -- I mean, how do you explain to yourself, and how do the survivors understand why these men were able to do this?

ROBERTS: Yeah, I mean, this has never been a political issue at all. I mean we work through politics because it affects real change. And so that's why we have, you know, we have people like congressman here that that absolutely stand behind survivors. You know?

And here's the thing there is no explanation for it. I mean, that's why as a general normal person from an everyday family, you look at it and you say what? Why haven't they been held accountable? Why were they able to get a hold or, you know, be able to get away with this for so long?

So, you know, at the end of the day here, it's about what we can do right now. I mean, the reality is, is that this had already happened. And we can never let this happen to the next generation of kids.

So, you know, I just hope that we can affect real change moving forward. And reality is there is no words that can be described what happened and why they're getting away with it. It's about how we take action right now.

SUBRAMANYAM: Yeah.

HUNT: Well, I'm very grateful to you for your time.

Congressman, very briefly on another subject, while I have you, I do want to ask you about a tweet that just came out from the Department of Homeland Security because they write that some Democrats in Congress are planning to bring, they call them illegal aliens as guests to the State of the Union, and then they talk about how their officers have arrested pedophiles, rapists and violent criminals from our communities.

How do you take this tweet from the DHS?

SUBRAMANYAM: Well, the DHS has been a train wreck. Their leadership is corrupt from the start. They've been completely inept, and they've been an embarrassment. And ICE is terrorizing communities. And so, I don't take much from anything DHS has to say right now. And so, we're going to continue to fight what they're doing as well. HUNT: Congressman Suhas Subramanyam and Sky Roberts, thank you both

very much for your time today. I really appreciate it.

ROBERTS: Thank you

SUBRAMANYAM: Thank you.

HUNT: All right. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HUNT: Thanks very much to my panel and to all of you at home for watching.

A reminder, CNN's special coverage of the State of the Union Address starts at 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time tonight.

And "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts right now.