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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt

Trump Says Iran Ceasefire On "Massive Life Support"; Transportation Secretary Faces Backlash Over New Reality Show; 18 People Being Monitored For Hantavirus In U.S.; Just In: Dems Ask Supreme Court To Let Them Use New Virginia Map. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired May 11, 2026 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DR. GAIL SALTZ, PSYCHOANALYST, NEW YORK PSYCHOANALYTIC INSTITUTE: So celebrities or important figures, people who've been affected, talking about their stories and talking about the biology of the illnesses of mental illness is so important to destigmatize it and de-shame the issue so that people do go get care.

[16:00:06]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Yeah. Gail. So important. Thank you so much for being with us.

And if you or someone you know is struggling with suicidal thoughts or mental health matters, please call the 988 suicide and crisis lifeline by dialing 988 to connect with a trained counselor. You can visit the 988 lifeline website.

THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now

(MUSIC)

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. Welcome to THE ARENA. I'm Kasie Hunt. It's wonderful to have you with us on this Monday.

Right now, the prospects for a peace deal with Iran are grim. As President Donald Trump outright rejects Iran's latest demands and gives the ceasefire a morbid prognosis.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Right now, after reading a piece of garbage they sent us, I didn't even finish reading it. They said, I'm not going to waste my time reading it.

I would say it's one of the weakest -- right now, it's on life support. I would say the cease fire is on massive life support where the doctor walks in and says, sir, your loved one has approximately a 1 percent chance of living.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: The president dismissing Iran's latest peace proposal one he calls totally unacceptable, most notably, the Iranians want recognition of their control of the Strait of Hormuz. That news sending oil prices upward once again, with Brent crude trading over $100 a barrel and the national average for the price for a gallon of gas, yet now sits at $4.52. That is up more than 50 percent since the start of the war, and the administration seems to know just how much of a political liability this reality is.

Today, President Trump told CBS that he wants to temporarily suspend the federal gas tax. That's about 18 cents a gallon. To do that, though, Congress would need to act. And so once again, the president is under immense pressure to convince everyone at home and abroad that he has this whole situation under control.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: A lot of people said, well, does he have a plan? Yeah, of course, they do have a plan. The best plan ever.

And Iran has been defeated militarily. Totally. They have a little left. They probably built up during this period of time. We'll knock that out in about a day.

But I have a plan. You know what? It is a very simple plan. I don't know why you don't say it like it is. Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right, let's get off the sidelines, head into THE ARENA. My panel is going to be here.

But first, we want to start with CNN global affairs analyst Brett McGurk to talk more about this.

Brett, thank you so much for being here. Always good to see you.

I want to start by reading a little bit more about how Trump described this proposal from the Iranians. So asked by CBS to detail what it was about the proposal that he found unacceptable, the president replied, quote, "It was just a bad proposal, a stupid proposal actually done by people that have no clue as to the danger theyre in. Very stupid proposal, badly written, badly delivered." Asked whether the Iranians made any concessions when it came to their nuclear program, he replied, "Yeah, sure, but for sure. But not nearly enough."

What is your understanding of what is so bad about this that the president would react this way?

BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: I think this feels to me like when I used to do negotiations with Iran on a -- on a hostage deal, theyre holding the hostages. They know they have all the cards, literally, the hostages. And then they draw it out and are very reluctant to put on the table what you might want, which is, in that case, hostages here opening the Strait of Hormuz. My understanding is there was an effort, and the Qatari prime minister is here, Sheikh Mohammed, to try to get an MOU that basically reopen the strait to the status quo, allow commerce to flow. As you then began the negotiations on the nuclear side, with Iran signaling it was ready to make some concessions there.

Apparently, what's come back, and it's an Iranian press. They've put out what they said is none of that. They want to legitimize their control of the Strait of Hormuz, which I think is just completely unacceptable. They want what they call reparations for war damage, and they want upfront sanctions relief before any of the nuclear issues are resolved.

That is a complete nonstarter. However, it leaves us in a stalemate. The Strait of Hormuz is shut. So there's compounding economic pressure globally, as you just laid out. And then also on Iran.

And so, that might continue for some time. Or this returns to the military phase. And I think the Iranians believe they have cards there because they have the missiles and the drones that can target the infrastructure in the Gulf. And then we have the option, which the president alluded to today, to try to militarily reopen the strait.

So that's where we are. It's a stalemate. Diplomacy right now is pretty much deadlocked, and there's the possibility of going back to the military campaign. But that is very high risk.

[16:05:00]

HUNT: So, when you say very high risk and you mentioned also militarily reopening the Strait of Hormuz, I mean, what is the likely cost of doing that?

MCGURK: Well, you know, that Project Freedom, which was about a week ago, that the idea there was to open up a military, open up a corridor to give shippers confidence to move through the strait. And it fell short, partially because it didn't appear to be fully coordinated with our allies in the gulf who had some issues. So perhaps we can resolve that.

But look, the cost of a military campaign, I never estimate the cost because you never know. It is just the realm of uncertainty. I think what Iran could do here, Kasie, is use its remaining missiles and drones to go after the gulf energy infrastructure and make this problem even worse. They have all these asymmetrical means, which are kind of classic tools of the weaker power in a war.

The one wild card this week, of course, the president going to China, China has an interest here. They get 15 percent of their oil goes to the Strait of Hormuz. They're not getting any of that.

And Xi Jinping also, I think, has an interest to present himself as a bit of a peacemaker. I doubt that's going to work either. But that is also something that, you know, could be in the cards. I don't want to misuse that metaphor, but that's also a big -- that's a big moment this week. And Xi Jinping understands power. He knows that there's something President Trump wants. He wants to Strait of Hormuz reopen. The Chinese do have influence over the Iranians. So perhaps something could come of that.

I don't want to see the Chinese as the -- as the kind of broker of a deal. But I wouldn't put that out of the realm of the possible as we look ahead this week. But more likely than not, we're going to be stuck in this stalemate for some time.

HUNT: All right, well, that probably means we'll see you again soon, Brett McGurk. Thank you very much for your time today.

MCGURK: Thank you.

HUNT: I really appreciate it.

My panel is here in THE ARENA. Political reporter and author, Molly Ball; CNN political analyst, national political reporter for "Axios", Alex Thompson; CNN political commentator, former communications director for Vice President Kamala Harris, Jamal Simmons; and CNN's senior political commentator Scott Jennings.

But before we dive in, were going to continue this conversation about Iran and gas prices by looking at something that's been going on here at home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN DUFFY, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: Taking a little trip, a little trip all over. So, the motto is to love America is to see America. It's more than a road trip. It's a civic experience. It's one of the most powerful ways to understand --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: That's the transportation secretary, Sean Duffy. He is launching a new reality show. You might remember that he was in an old reality show back when he was in Congress.

This one is set to air on YouTube. It is called The Great American Road Trip. The trailer, seen here, shows Duffy and his family hitting the highway to visit landmarks and towns across the country. The goal is to encourage you to do the same this summer in honor of America's 250th birthday.

Noble, perhaps, but of course, if you do, the gas for your car is going to cost you far more than it has in years. For example, if you took a week and you drove from Boston to San Diego, you could get -- and if you could get 28 miles to the gallon, you might spend about $484 on gas alone. Ten weeks ago, before the war with Iran, that number is more like $165 less. It's pretty significant.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DUFFY: I think it opens up, you're going to see prices come down immediately. You saw yesterday energy prices came down below $100 a barrel, I think about 93 this morning. I -- don't quote me on that, but I was looking at it. It was like 92, 93 for Brent crude. So, we're in a good place. We want to encourage all Americans to take a road trip. Whether you're going to go two hours or two days.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HUNT: The challenge, of course, those gas prices go up like a rocket. When oil goes up and they come down like a feather. Or at least that's what the business unit continues to tell me.

Molly Ball, Sean Duffy hitting the road, gauzy, you know, kind of thing that honestly, Donald Trump probably understands well, as a reality show host himself. But it does raise some questions about whether he's doing his day job as transportation secretary at this point in time.

MOLLY BALL, POLITICAL REPORTER AND AUTHOR: Well, and the idea of a road trip, I think under normal circumstances does seem like you said, like, like exactly the kind of sort of pro America thing that we could all get together and agree on. And at the time that it was planned, they could not have had any idea the context that we would be in. With gas prices moving to the forefront of the political conversation.

But, but now, I think, yeah, people are going to have those questions to the extent that they are watching this show, number one, about, you know, we saw former Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg, his husband, sort of clapping back on the Duffys, saying, wait a minute, you were so critical when Buttigieg you know, didn't even take a paternity leave, but was working through his adoption process.

[16:10:00]

What are you doing here? Right? Are you doing the day job?

So, there's that issue. And then there's the attention that it calls to gas prices. And so I think both of those have opened the secretary up to a little bit of criticism just because this is so top of mind for people right now, and because the idea of taking a road trip has become much more fraught in an era where every time you turn on the car, you're thinking about how much more it costs than it did a while ago.

HUNT: Yeah, I mean, Scott Jennings, like, listen, I'm the world's biggest fan of the road trip, okay? It's great. Like a great American tradition. But if you look at the polling, Americans are saying they're dialing back their plans this summer because they're having trouble affording this.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah. I mean, are we saying we're just not going to move around at all? Is that -- I mean, is the counter message here is that everybody should just shelter?

HUNT: No, the question is, is this out of touch? That's the question, right?

JENNINGS: Of course, people are going to move around. Of course, they're going to take vacations. And of course, you want to encourage people taking advantage of what America has to offer during its 250th anniversary.

So, I mean, I'm not disputing the cost of gas has gone up. But at the same time, the idea that the U.S. government should tell people to just sit at home and do nothing, it seems.

HUNT: Like those are the two choices. The choices are not tell Americans to take a road trip or tell Americans to stay home.

JENNINGS: You're being very critical of people who want to take a road trip. We are people --

HUNT: No. We're raising questions about whether or not this is out of touch. Jamal, what do you think?

JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Seems frivolous to me, right? We're at a time where were in the middle of a war that people don't understand why we're in. He doesn't have -- the president has not been able to get the Iranians to go along with him in any way while people are paying this extra gas price that we're all looking at.

They're a reality TV family. So, in that sense, it's like, what are we doing? Are you -- are you doing your old job or are you doing your new job? I'm not really clear what's happening here.

So, there's a -- there's a lot of -- there are a lot of people in this administration who are using the government, it seems, for private aims. This feels like another one of those moments. In normal times, if you had some cabinet secretary who, you know, Eric Holder decided to take his family on a road trip, we think, oh, that was a creative way for them to try to get some news. This just feels a little frivolous.

HUNT: Alex Thompson, Democrats seized on this, obviously.

Governor Newsom, Sean Duffy is a total disgrace. Multiple air accidents happened on his watch. Instead of doing his job, he's busy filming a reality TV show on the taxpayers dime.

Governor Pritzker, while you can't afford a trip for your family this summer. You just paid for Sean Duffy's seven-month road trip at $4.55 a gallon.

Buttigieg, also former transportation secretary. I love a good road trip, but this is brutally out of touch. A Trump cabinet member making a documentary about himself. While regular families can't afford road trips anymore because Trump and his war put gas prices through the roof.

Now, it is worth pointing out that the Transportation Department says that you did not pay for this. That the following sponsors paid for this -- Boeing, Toyota, Shell, Google, U.S. Travel, among others. NBC, Comcast, Universal, Enterprise, a rental car company, United Airlines, et cetera.

I mean, there's a reason they're jumping on it.

ALEX THOMPSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, a lot of those companies have businesses before the federal government, including the transportation. And so, there are legitimate. And now they've -- now the administration has said they followed all the ethical rules, but it is an unseemly look that people that are being regulated are also donating. And this is not the only instance within this Trump White House of where you've had that sort of unseemly look.

I mean, just look at the many millions that were given to fund the ballroom. A lot of those companies have business before this federal government. There is a sense in the business community that this White House is very pay to play. And, you know, if it means funding a, you know, a few million dollars for reality TV show, a lot of these companies will take that.

SIMMONS: By the way, Kasie, seven months? Seven months seems like an extraordinarily extraordinary amount of time. I imagine -- I don't imagine -- I don't know when they -- when they were doing this. It just seems like a lot of time when you're supposed to be doing a government job.

I've been in government jobs. Take a lot of your time and energy. I can't imagine having taken my family on a seven-month road trip while I was serving in the government.

JENNINGS: You can't seriously be suggesting that he's been literally in a car for seven straight --

SIMMONS: I'm not suggesting it. They're the ones who are promoting a seven-month road trip. I didn't say it. They said it.

JENNINGS: Look, here's a reality. We live in the most beautiful, best country on earth. We have a lot to offer. National parks. There's something in every single state. And I think what the government is trying to do here is say, look, we want Americans to enjoy America. That's kind of what the Republican ethos is about.

We love our country, and we love all the things we have to offer. And you should get out and enjoy it. And that's what they're trying to do.

I think there's been a lot of negative nellies here around this for political reasons, but Americas a great place and people should get out and see it.

HUNT: It's a beautiful country. No one is -- no one is disputing that by any stretch.

All right. Coming up next here in THE ARENA, a new fight between the secretary and the senator. Why Pete Hegseth is going after Mark Kelly this time for something he said on TV.

But first, more than a dozen people in the U.S. are being monitored for the hantavirus. The latest on the outbreak and what the president and government health officials are saying today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. BRENDAN JACKSON, DIVISION OF HIGH-CONSEQUENCE PATHOGENS AND PATHOLOGY ACTING DIRECTOR: You can guarantee no American will catch this virus from these returning passengers. [16:15:00]

There are no guarantees in life. We're putting as many measures in place as possible to ensure that people are safe and healthy, and we keep the community safe and healthy as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HUNT: All right. Breaking news, 18 passengers from the cruise ship at the center of the hantavirus outbreak are back on U.S. soil. They are being monitored at medical facilities in Nebraska and Georgia. So far, health officials say that 16 of those passengers are asymptomatic, while one is experiencing mild symptoms and another has tested positive for the virus.

This, as Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. downplays the seriousness of the hantavirus outbreak, says the government has it under control.

[16:20:01]

Kennedy, along with President Trump, also defended the speed of the CDC's hantavirus updates to the public. When asked why the agency's alert had come days after the World Health Organization's initial notification.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT F. KENNEDY, JR., HHS SECRETARY: We have this under control, and we're not worried about it.

REPORTER: But the CDC took four days after the WHO issued its, you know, alert. Why was it? Why did it take us four days to issue an alert?

KENNEDY: It's not true. We -- as soon as we determine that the virus was out there, we issued an alert. The alert means nothing.

TRUMP: They acted very quickly. I saw the alert.

KENNEDY: Yeah.

TRUMP: Give me -- give me a break. They acted very, very quickly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right. Turning our panel now to discuss Dr. Celine Gounder. She's an infectious disease specialist and an epidemiologist.

Doctor, thank you so much for being here. I want to start with that notification question before we kind of expand out and talk about where these passengers are. What should Americans take away from the fact that the CDC's notification here was delayed? I mean, is it concerning to you? Is it something we should be focused on? DR. CELINE GOUNDER, EDITOR-AT-LARGE FOR PUBLIC HEALTH, KFF HEALTH

NEWS: Yeah. Real quick for your viewers, because there's only so much we can cover here in a few minutes for people who have more questions than can be answered here go to my website, celinegounder.com. And there's a lot more detail there.

I am really concerned about the delay. I'm one of the clinicians who's on the health alert network email list. And those emails did not go out until this Friday, this past Friday afternoon. And so that's almost two weeks after the first the first rumblings we were hearing about hantavirus. And I think over that period of time, both clinicians and the general public have had a lot of questions.

And this idea that, well, we're not worried. We're not worried demonstrates a real disconnect with how the American people are feeling. A lot of people are scared and worried that this is going to be another COVID-style pandemic. It will not be, to be very clear, but that does require clear communication, direct communication and prompt communication with the American public so that they understand as well what is happening

HUNT: Doctor, the way that you have framed this, and it's a -- it's a thing we think about here a lot is there a reality now where half of America trusts what the government is saying and the other half doesn't in a situation like this?

GOUNDER: I think it may be even worse than that. I'm not sure how many people trust for various different reasons at all. And frankly, I myself find myself in a situation where I don't trust a lot of what's coming out. There are people who are -- your life types at the CDC who've been there for decades, who are the scientists, who are folks working on the front line? Those people I do trust.

But I do have real concerns about the leadership when they have said things like, let's put a eight-year pause on infectious diseases, that's like saying, let's put an eight-year pause on worrying about China and Iran and North Korea.

If the world were that simple and you could just wish it away, it would be a much nicer world. But that's not the world that we live in.

HUNT: Let's talk for a second about these passengers. We know one has tested positive here. Are you confident in the health systems that we have that are looking after these folks? Do you think they can feel confident there? And how concerned are you about this spreading person to person here in the U.S.?

GOUNDER: Well, so the person who has tested positive is at the Nebraska biocontainment unit. The good news is that this is a unit that is very well equipped to deal with these kinds of patients. You also want, in the case of hantavirus patient to have access to ECMO, which is the heart lung bypass machine. These patients get sick, get very sick very quickly. And that can often be the only thing that saves them.

So, I do think for that patient, for example, we do have what is needed. There are broader problems though. And again, I want to emphasize to the American public that we do not think this is going to be a covid style pandemic, where this spreads more broadly. But there are some bigger challenges in terms of how this is stress testing our system. And frankly, we're getting very lucky that this is hantavirus and not a new virus like covid.

We have real gaps in leadership and infrastructure across health and human services. So, the CDC director position has been vacant for over eight months. Dr. Jay Bhattacharya is serving both as NIH director and acting as CDC director. And he himself admitted on Jake Tapper's show this weekend that this was a lot to handle.

The principal deputy director position at CDC is also vacant. The FDA commissioner is reportedly being fired.

[16:25:00]

We have no surgeon general. USAID has effectively been dismantled, and the U.S. has withdrawn from the World Health Organization.

So, from a leadership perspective, we're really being caught unprepared. In addition, there are some other gaps. We have no approved test -- PCR test for Andes virus, the particular form of hantavirus that were dealing with here for patients to be used in clinical settings.

So, there are research use only tests. And then there are some tests that have been approved for use in very specific labs, like the California lab and Nebraska, but those are not widely available across the country.

HUNT: All right. Dr. Celine Gounder, thanks very much for spending some time with us on this. Really appreciate it.

All right. We've got some breaking news at the Supreme Court. It's related to the midterms, the future of the congressional map in Virginia.

CNN chief legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid joins us now.

Paula, what's -- what's the latest?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Kasie, this is really interesting. This is just the latest in a series of redistricting controversies to reach the Supreme Court here.

Democratic officials in Virginia are asking the Supreme Court to reinstate a congressional map that would benefit Democrats ahead of this year's midterm elections. Now, this emergency appeal, it follows a decision from the Virginia Supreme Court last week that voided Democrats attempt to redraw the state's U.S. house map during an April referendum.

Now, Democrats are asking the U.S. Supreme Court to effectively put that order on hold ahead of the midterms. They write, quote, that that decision was deeply mistaken on two critical issues of federal law with profound practical importance to this nation.

Now, as I noted, the U.S. Supreme Court is enmeshed in a series of redistricting cases and controversies, many of which could have implications for the midterm elections. So right now, we are just waiting to see if the Supreme Court wades in on this question, Kasie.

HUNT: All right. Paula Reid, thanks very much for that report.

Our panel is back.

Jamal Simmons, is this just -- I mean, do Democrats really expect that this Supreme Court of all Supreme Courts going to bail them out of this situation? Or is this just a way for them to take it there, have them knock it down and then turn around and say, look, the Supreme Court is also in Trump's pocket.

I mean, what's the -- what's the play?

SIMMONS: Democrats have to keep fighting. I mean, that's the play. The play is that Democratic voters in particular want to see the party stand up and fight. This is one of those efforts to do that. If they don't make it here, they'll try something else. We've heard about a few different kind of ideas they're working out. So we're going to see more of this.

I just want to know. I want to just get back to Dr. Gounder. This is an amazing part thing that we are -- we are -- we, we feel tested Donald Trump in a pandemic and a health crisis five years ago, six years ago, it didn't turn out very well.

Now, we're in a position where we don't have a CDC director. We were not members of the world health organization. We've cut funding on infectious disease research, and they're telling us everything's going to be okay.

I assume everything is going to be okay because the experts say it is. But we have a president that is just so hard to trust in moments like this. I can't believe we trusted MAGA again when so much is at stake.

THOMPSON: Well, I just want to jump in on the Virginia referendum because I was -- I was here the day after. And the story at that time was Republicans were pointing fingers about why didn't they -- didn't spend enough money because it looked like it was a winnable race. Now, MAGA -- you know, the Trump team is saying this is why we didn't spend the money, because we thought it would be overturned. And now all the finger pointing is on the Democratic side of why did we spend tens of millions of dollars and not have the complete legal framework just settled?

And, you know, one of the people -- one of the people that has probably suffered the most from this is the new Virginia governor, Abigail Spanberger, who ran on lowering costs but then spent a lot of her political capital doing this referendum. And now for it to be overturned has really you just look at the approval rating between her and Mikie Sherrill in New Jersey. She's really suffered for doing this. JENNINGS: There's a better chance of me sprouting wings and flying out

of that window over there than the United States Supreme Court dealing with this in any way, because this is a state Supreme Court ruling on a state constitution. The U.S. Supreme Court doesn't deal with these kinds of things, number one.

Number two, the freakout in Virginia has been so extreme. You even have Democrats over there who are saying they want to effectively, politically decapitate the entire Virginia Supreme Court by putting an age limit of 54 so they can get rid of every existing justice and install people who will promise to rule a certain way on a certain case.

You know, they went from, oh, this is just a temporary map thing to let's burn down the entire Virginia Supreme Court in about two seconds over there in Virginia, which tells you all you need to know about just how power hungry and corrupt the Democrats are in Virginia. This is not going to work at the U.S. Supreme Court. And this whole project of maximum warfare by Hakeem Jeffries is completely blown up in their face.

SIMMONS: I'm sorry, maximum warfare started by Donald Trump, who changed the rules in the middle of the game.

[16:30:04]

We've got states right now that are canceling primaries that are already in play in order to try to fix the elections rules, to help the Republican president, because he asked them to. It's rich to hear that coming from you. It really is.

JENNINGS: What is rich that --

SIMMONS: Rich is when people, you know, say something --

JENNINGS: I mean, I mean, I mean, in Virginia, you had Democrats in Virginia who broke the law and broke the state constitution to try to move a six-five, fairly constructed map to a ten-one farce. They got struck down by Democrats on their own Supreme Court, and now they want to decapitate an entire branch of government over it? It's ridiculous.

SIMMONS: The Tennessee state law says that you cannot redistrict in the middle of -- in the middle of the ten-year process. Yet the Tennessee legislature just did that. So we're not at a place where we're having really, queens, whatever that rule is about how everybody is abiding by the proper rules. That's not where we are.

We're at a place where the Republicans started something. Democrats are trying to compete with it, and the American public is being caught in the middle.

HUNT: Yeah. Molly, quick last word.

BALL: Well, I think, as Jamal said, the Democrats don't expect this to succeed, but they have to be seen to be fighting by their voters because there is just such a hunger in the Democratic base for maximum warfare with something that they do believe that Trump and the Republicans started.

So, for the Democrats to just say, oh, well, we did our best, were going to take our ball and go home without pushing it as far as they possibly can, I think would be intolerable to the base.

HUNT: Yeah, for sure.

All right. Coming up next here in THE ARENA, what Senator Mark Kelly recently said that is now prompting the defense secretary to open another investigation into the retired navy captain, plus a high profile American evangelical leader making a pretty remarkable statement in the continued back and forth between President Trump and Pope Leo.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT JEFFRIES, SOUTHERN BAPTIST PASTOR: The great irony is it looks like President Trump has a better understanding of what the bible teaches about the role of government than the pope has.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:36:28]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): We've been briefed by the pentagon on specific munitions. Actually, it's been pretty detailed on Tomahawks, ATACMS, SM-3s, THAAD rounds, Patriot rounds. So, those interceptor rounds to defend ourselves. And the numbers are I think it's fair to say it's shocking the -- how deep we have gone into these magazines. The munitions are depleted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is now calling for the Pentagon to investigate Democratic Senator Mark Kelly again, this time over those comments you just watched, accusing the retired navy captain and former astronaut of possibly violating his oath by, quote, "blabbing on TV," end quote, about a classified Pentagon briefing.

Hegseth's call coming just days after a federal appeals court appeared poised to reject the Pentagon's bid to demote Kelly over his participation in that controversial illegal orders video.

Kelly responding to the new threat by saying he was just reiterating what Hegseth himself told senators a week prior about the state of U.S. munitions stockpiles.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: Can you tell us how many years, specifically, is it going to take to replace these systems?

PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I mean, months and years and years. We're building new plants in real time.

KELLY: No, just to replace what we have expended.

HEGSETH: I said months.

KELLY: And then you said years.

HEGSETH: Well, it depends on the weapon system. But two to three, four x of what we have today. So yes, we're dealing with a reality under the previous administration of what they sent to Ukraine and what they allocated elsewhere.

KELLY: OK, I got it. So we fired years worth of munitions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right. Molly Ball, he went through some detailed names of types of systems, most of which I think their existence is certainly public. I want to play a series of other members of Congress talking about this very issue. And then we'll discuss whether, you know, there's any "there" there or if this is all just politics.

Let's watch

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JASON CROW (D-CO): The amount of munitions that we have spent, years worth of munitions stockpiles of some of the most sophisticated advanced weaponry that we have.

REP. PAT FALLON (R-TX): We need to replenish our munitions. We need more precision munitions, missiles, ballistic missiles.

REP. JOHN GARAMENDI (D-CA): They did expand enormous number of our very precision munitions, which will take billions of dollars in years to replace.

SEN. JONI ERNST (R-IA): It is important that we bring up our munitions stock.

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I don't even think they would agree to vote on a bill that would simply restock our munitions. We -- and we've got to do that. It's a necessity.

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HUNT: So, both Republicans and Democrats are quite open about these munitions problem. Is the defense secretary standing on solid ground or just continuing a vendetta against Mark Kelly?

BALL: Well, you know, what occurs to me is that if Hegseth is telling the truth, that this information was given in a classified briefing, he is acknowledging that, at least in a classified context, the Pentagon has told members of congress that these specific munitions have been depleted. Now, it is true that, you know, Kelly was talking about these

munitions on a level of specificity that was more than you heard Hegseth say when he said, generally in that hearing that there had been a depletion. And most of those other comments were about a general depletion of precision munitions. It wasn't a laundry list of actual ones.

But again, if that level of specificity came out of that classified briefing, what Hegseth is saying is, yeah, we did tell you that all of those munitions are depleted, but you were supposed to keep it a secret.

[16:40:07]

So that's -- so that's one sort of difficulty for the case the administration has been making.

In terms of the legality, you know, of whether this was classified or not. And whether he was revealing, you know, specific information that came from that briefing versus somewhere else. Like, I'm not a lawyer or an expert on the code of military conduct. Although I would say that in that context, as you, as you mentioned, the effort to bring Senator Kelly up on charges has not been going well up to this point.

HUNT: Yeah.

Well, go ahead.

THOMPSON: I was going to say Pete Hegseth has been the best political fundraiser in Mark Kelly's entire career. Mark Kelly, as of the end of last quarter, had $22 million cash on hand. He's not up for reelection until 2020 -- until 2028. And of all the people thinking about running for president in 2028, he has the most cash on hand by a long shot. He has more cash on hand than AOC or any of these other people.

And that changed when Pete Hegseth said he was investigating. And Mark Kelly's political team has made the most of it.

HUNT: Yeah, I mean, Jamal?

SIMMONS: Every single day that the Trump administration takes on Mark Kelly is a good day for the Kelly potential presidential campaign. He goes up in stock not just in money, but also people paying attention to this.

They'll sort out what happened with the, you know, who said what and which briefing. But the political problem that the Trump administration has is Mark Kelly, fighter pilot, astronaut, husband of Gabby Giffords is a very tough political opponent for them, as people are sorting through this.

JENNINGS: Well, I'm glad we have an admission of what's going on here. Mark Kelly's partisan interests are what's most important. This man is a United States senator. He's getting classified briefings from the Pentagon. And then he goes on television and tells our enemies around the world in great specificity, which weapon systems are depleted, which need to be restocked. Setting aside the legal issues, which I'm with Molly, I'm not a lawyer either, and I don't know what the future of that holds.

Did he ever stop to ask himself what is in the best interest of the United States of America, and not just my own political future? Because it's obvious that he did not a sitting senator going on television and telegraphing to our enemies and our threats around the world what we may or may not have. It's extraordinarily irresponsible, but let's not let that get in the way of a presidential campaign.

HUNT: Well, I mean, Scott, but to Molly's point, could you not say -- I mean, if Hegseth was legitimately interested, most interested in national security, he easily could have lost this investigation and not said anything about it, right?

JENNINGS: Well, I mean, its already out in the open when Kelly goes on television.

HUNT: But he's now elevated what Kelly said, right?

JENNINGS: I think -- I think everybody heard it. It was on --

HUNT: And if the defense secretary is in fact acknowledging and saying, well, he revealed classified information here, he is confirming publicly what Molly said he is doing.

JENNINGS: So, the options here would be to ignore it or to lie about it?

HUNT: No, the option would be to investigate and not tell the press.

JENNINGS: Look, look --

HUNT: Right?

JENNINGS: I mean, look, Mark Kelly went on television and said, I got a classified briefing and here's what I was told.

HUNT: I'm just saying, it sounds like they're both doing the same thing, right? Everyone's playing politics here is -- I mean, if you're going to buy into your argument that, hey, this is a senator, right, who's running for president, and that's what we're acknowledging he's doing. Like, is Hegseth not doing the same thing?

JENNINGS: Look, this all started because a senator received classified information and chose to disclose it for the good of his own partisan interests, not for the good of the country. I don't know that there's any other blame to be laid here.

SIMMONS: I think if you talk to the American people that a United States senator told them what was happening behind closed doors in Washington, D.C., the American people would like that.

THOMPSON: I'd also say that, you know, Americas enemies can also read like the front page story of "The New York Times" two weeks ago, which talked about the deep munitions shortage in great detail. HUNT: Right. It's been definitely a central issue here.

All right. Ahead here in THE ARENA, the new addition to the president's golf club in Florida. It is a golden statue of Donald Trump himself.

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MARK BURNS, EVANGELICAL MINISTER: This statue symbolizes patriotism of Americans. It represents the will to fight even in the face of opposition, the will to get back up.

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[16:48:26]

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JAMES HANSON, HOST: What is your response to that? That this is somehow a false idol, you know, because people talk about the golden calf. Well, is this the golden Trump?

BURNS: Yeah. Well, of course it's preposterous. It's blasphemy to even think that. I mean, if you knew me and of course, I don't know anybody who worshipped Donald Trump as a god.

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HUNT: President Trump's friend and unofficial spiritual advisor, the pastor, Mark Burns, has been busy defending Don Colossus. It is a 15- foot golden statue of Donald Trump. It's about the height of a two- story building when it's mounted on its 7,000-pound pedestal. It was unveiled at the president's Doral golf course last week.

And some critics have drawn a comparison -- you may know it -- the biblical story of the golden calf. It was a statue created by the Israelites. Despite, of course, the ban on worshipping idols. Don Colossus was commissioned and paid for by a cryptocurrency group in the wake of the Butler, Pennsylvania assassination attempt.

Trump approved the statue, saying it was, quote, the real deal gold. Worth noting the statue is actually bronze. There is a layer of gold leaf on top of it, as Pastor Burns explained.

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BURNS: Was first bronze. The president again had nothing to do with this statue in the first place, but the patriots came together at the very last minute and they said it would be wonderful so that it don't patina mean it turns green like the statue of liberty, that if we make it gold, that would that would preserve the statue even longer.

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[16:50:02]

HUNT: It would also fit with President Trump's esthetic taste, Molly Ball.

BALL: He is a notable fan of gold leaf of all types. Yes.

HUNT: Indeed. I mean, Alex Thompson, this is I mean, in some ways it feels entirely unsurprising that such a thing exists. And yet the fact that it feels totally unsurprising also says a lot about where we are as a country.

THOMPSON: Well, and this entire first year where Trump is very much in YOLO mode of basically putting, you know, in front of the Justice Department, you have his face draped. He's renamed the Kennedy Center with putting his name onto it. They're talking about the Trump Arc, Donald Trump. We have the coins coming for the 250th anniversary and every single possible way Donald Trump is making celebrations of himself.

HUNT: Well, and I think, you know, Scott Jennings, the question I have and were about to celebrate Americas 250th birthday. Okay? It's a celebration of our throwing off the tyranny of a king, right, in favor of democracy. The picture we were just showing are some examples, world examples of other statues that resemble this. And they are of dictators, including Kim Il Sung in North Korea there.

Is this -- like, is this inside the American tradition, this statue?

JENNINGS: I don't know. I mean, where is it? Doral?

HUNT: At a Trump-owned golf course.

JENNINGS: And who owns it? Trump. So there's an image of Donald Trump at a golf course that he owns. I mean, color me surprised that there would be a picture or an image of Donald Trump at a property that he himself bought and renovated and is, you know, so on and so forth.

I mean, I mean, if he -- if Donald Trump were the king of America, believe me, he wouldn't have all the trouble that he has doing all the things that he wants to do. And I think all these attacks on him in that regard have been, frankly, ridiculous.

HUNT: Do you think the statue is in good taste, Scott?

JENNINGS: In good taste?

HUNT: Yes

JENNINGS: That's up to him. He owns it.

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HUNT: Jamal, what do you think?

JENNINGS: I will say -- I will say this though about politicians. They're to be prayed for, not prayed to. And the president, of course, enjoys widespread support. The evangelical and Catholic and other faith communities. And that's been the case for his career.

So, but my personal view is, you know, politicians are just human beings like the rest of us.

SIMMONS: I think it's peak Trump, right? It's paid for by outside donors who probably are in favor in some way.

It's gaudy, a little tacky. It's also disinformation. Donald Trump would kill for that waistline. That's not exactly real --

HUNT: I have to say. I hadn't noticed the waistline on the statue until you pointed it out.

I guess two -- I mean, Scott, I actually very much appreciate your point that politicians are to be prayed for and not to the president has done a number of things. I mean, the reason why this is getting some criticism is because it is explicitly you know, the bible teaches us do not, you know, pray to false idols. Right. And that's what this looks like to some people.

And this also comes in the wake of the president putting a picture of himself basically as Jesus, right? That he then claimed he was actually a doctor and had, you know, they deleted it rather quickly. You know, this is an administration that doesn't, you know, do that. Very often. But it got significant backlash in the evangelical community.

And it comes at a time, too, when his approval ratings are low. MAGA's mad at him over Iran and other things, like how much of this is starting to be tone deaf with the community that you point out, evangelical Christians have been rock solid in their support of him?

JENNINGS: Yeah. I don't know how to measure all those things you just strung together there. Look there. There are statues of politicians all over this country. I was just in New Orleans the other day and was shocked to find a statue of Kentucky Senator Henry Clay in the middle of New Orleans for some reason.

We build statues to politicians in this country. I'm not surprised there's one at a Trump owned facility. But I'll just reiterate what I said before all the evangelicals and Christians that I know who love Donald Trump, pray for, but not to -- pray for Donald Trump every single day.

HUNT: I mean, no one's saying that's a bad idea. No one's saying that's a bad thing.

JENNINGS: And we should pray for our president no matter who he is.

HUNT: Of course. But I mean, this man is still alive, right? Most of our statues are to dead people, right?

JENNINGS: Yeah. No. I guess, I mean -- look, if you -- if you -- if you would like me to audit all the images of Donald Trump at Trump owned golf courses and facilities, I'll do it. I'm not sure what national interest it would serve, but I'll get to work on it. THOMPSON: What you're saying is what has happened with a lot of

Republicans is that they make them a little queasy. The gold statue and, you know, the, you know, all of the, you know, self-celebration you know, before he is dead, you know, it does make them uneasy. And you've even seen some criticism from previous allies.

I mean, Tucker Carlson sort of infamously just the other a few weeks ago suggested that people are suggesting Donald Trump is the antichrist, right? I mean, that has been out there with some of these critics.

[16:55:02]

HUNT: Oh my god.

All right. On that note, we'll be right back.

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HUNT: All right. Thanks very much, my panel. Really appreciate you guys being here.

Thanks to all of you at home for watching as well.

Don't forget, you can now stream THE ARENA live. You can catch up whenever you want to in the CNN app. You just scan the QR code on your screen. You can also catch up by listening to THE ARENA's podcast. You can also follow along on X and Instagram. We are @TheArenaCNN.

But don't go anywhere because Jake Tapper is standing by for "THE LEAD".

Hi, Jake.