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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Trump: May Drop Blanche Nomination For Now Amid GOP Resistance; Trump Vows $22 Billion Overhaul Of Dulles Airport; CNN Poll: 46 Percent Of Dems Say Their Party Needs "Major Changes". Aired 4-5p ET
Aired July 30, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:00]
PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Now this gets rid of the People Movers by 2034. This replaces the C&D concourse and rebuilds -- essentially builds out the Aerotrain -- that's the subway underground the airport -- to replace the People Movers officially.
I hope the plan is to put these on govdeals.com, so I can buy one and turn it into a bar.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: That's what I was going to say! All right! Whoo!
Let's go to THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT. It starts right now.
(MUSIC)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's great to have you with us on this Thursday.
Right now, pride and prejudice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): We just want to end the fun. And this is not about Blanche. Blanche is negotiating in good faith. We have somebody else in the way, and I don't believe it's the president, and hopefully we can resolve it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: And as we come on the air, there is a new lame duck in a very high-stakes game of chicken over the president's nominee to be attorney general.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): Todd Blanche cannot give commitments that Cornyn and Tillis want. And by the way, I'm very concerned about the weaponization of the Justice Department.
REPORTER: If the vote happened today, would you support him?
CASSIDY: I'm not going to answer that because I'm still in the information gathering stage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Republican Senator Bill Cassidy joining, apparently, Thom Tillis and John Cornyn, who right now say that they're no closer to getting to yes on Todd Blanche.
Cornyn now accusing the White House of prioritizing Donald Trump the person over Donald Trump the president, and saying talks over the demands related to the anti-weaponization fund and that the IRS settlement are dead, at least through the weekend.
The president clearly frustrated, now threatening to just wait it out, betting he might have better odds next year when those Republican holdouts are out of office. He wrote this, quote, "I've got no objection to temporarily withdrawing Todd's name if they do not do the right thing and putting him back after Cornyn and Tillis are out of office."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TILLIS: A hundred fifty-eight days, they can try it again. Roll the dice on what the Senate confirmation process looks like next year. It's all on Hill.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right, let's get off the sidelines, head into THE ARENA. My panel's here.
CNN legal analyst, former federal prosecutor Elliot Williams; CNN political commentator Jonah Goldberg; CNN political commentator, former director of public affairs at the Justice Department, Xochitl Hinojosa; and former Republican congressman from Michigan, Peter Meijer.
Welcome to all of you. Thank you all very much for being here.
Jonah Goldberg, the president, is basically saying, Fine, I'll take my toys and go home, essentially, in this particular case. What do you think happens next here?
JONAH GOLDBERG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm not going to answer that. I'm still in the information gathering.
(LAUGHTER)
HUNT: Touche!
GOLDBERG: I think it's -- I think something's got to give. I think it's a big bet. I don't think the Democrats are going to take back the Senate, but it's possible for sure. I do think the Republican margins are going to shrink. And so, like betting on having Blanche after the elections where
they're going to be a very different climate and different priorities and also just not having Blanche in place is a big bet.
But I think that there is a reason why Trump doesn't want to let go of this thing. I don't think it's for the money. I think it's because I think they're going to want to have this tool post-election to play games, talk about election fraud, go after enemies and whatnot. And so I don't know what's going to give them.
HUNT: Congressman?
PETER MEIJER (R), FORMER U.S. CONGRESSMAN: I mean, Todd Blanche is the current, and he was the deputy attorney general. That was a Senate-confirmed position. As acting attorney general, he doesn't need to be confirmed. He can stay in that role for a very long time, you know? So in terms of the functioning of the Department of Justice, I mean, this really doesn't have much to do.
The problem, though, is the funding for the anti-weaponization committee will have to come through Congress. And this thing was announced after the Appropriations Committee on the Senate side had already sent stuff forward. It'll still have to go to the broader Senate for a vote. And so, by really making this an issue, you know, it -- it may not have a bearing ultimately at the operations when it comes to Todd Blanche.
But by drawing more attention, it guarantees they're going to be senators who say, we're not going to vote for this funding. We're not going to vote for Department of Justice funding for fiscal year 27 unless there are some assurances here.
So, I do think at the end of the day, it's probably more about this weird IRS like pardon thing legally. I mean, would that even work?
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: See, this is the problem like it's -- it's both legally suspect and politically unpopular, right? There is no --
MEIJER: But other than that.
WILLIAMS: Other than that -- no, but there's -- there's no avenue for it and that's what I find almost so perplexing about it. It's one thing to say, well, this is -- this is legally junk. it's a turd sandwich in the eyes of the law. However the public really wants it, you don't even have that here. And so, they are certainly playing with fire.
I would -- I would also just go I disagree with you a little bit in that yes, he can serve as acting attorney general but it's actually quite bad for the Justice Department to not have two people in those top two roles, the deputy and the acting for a big reason. There's a national security problem that's created because only someone who is Senate confirmed can sign off on things like FISA certifications. It's a big deal.
You actually have --
MEIJER: But Todd Blanche is Senate-confirmed.
WILLIAMS: He is, but he's a deputy, so you're taking away one of four people in the country who can do that. That actually puts our national security at risk. Bombs aren't going to stop dropping on us tomorrow, but it's the kind of thing why Congress wrote that law very specifically to make sure that the right people were holding the jobs.
I think folks are just sort of glossing over that and the assumption that, well, it doesn't matter. We don't care about the work of the Justice Department anyway. It doesn't need a full slate of leadership, and that's just not accurate.
XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, and I think the Weaponization Fund Regardless of what happens there, if Congress decides not to pass, I can't believe that Congress would ever have the appetite to do that. And I do think that they could potentially hold up DOJ funding. The Justice Department can still settle claims with January 6ers and actually not. say anything about it.
There -- unless -- I mean, it's subject to FOIA but the Justice Department and this administration isn't necessarily doing anything with FOIA at the moment and complying with that. I think the biggest interest the interesting part here is Donald Trump is essentially saying no, I want my immunity deal when it comes to the IRS, and the fact that the Justice Department even is settled with him and provided him immunity on future IRS sort of prosecutions or anything moving forward for him and his family is unprecedented.
The Justice Department can provide immunity, and it normally does so whenever someone provides helpful information about other crimes committed or anything else. They don't necessarily provide blanket immunity when it comes to any future IRS crimes. And the fact that he is so dug in on that is -- should -- I mean, it should shock everybody.
I will say that if Barack Obama with the Justice Department and gave himself absolute immunity over the IRS and any IRS crimes, Barack Obama would have been impeached. There is no way Republicans would have allowed any Democratic president to get away with having immunity when it comes to any sort of crime.
And so, all of this is unprecedented. Republicans and Democrats should be upset about it. And I think that once Democrats take over their House, there will be significant oversight it comes to this issue.
MEIJER: His tax returns were leaked -- I mean, in that parallel, the Obama tax returns being released by the Bush administration.
HINOJOSA: Yeah, we prosecuted.
MEIJER: So, there is, again, some confusion over exactly who is making it so that Cornyn and Tillis can't get where they want to go.
Let's watch a little bit more from Cornyn and Tillis on the state of their talks and what might shake something loose here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Who do you think is behind this holdup?
CORNYN: I have suspicions, but I don't think it's Mr. Blanche.
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESDSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Do you think it's the president itself? I mean --
CORNYN: I don't know.
REPORTER: Do you think it's his family? They're plaintiffs in this case.
CORNYN: I don't know.
TILLIS: My reaction is the president's getting bad advice. Whoever that person is giving the president bad advice. The only reason why we wouldn't move forward with this language is because that same advisor wants to bring it back to life at some point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Jonah, do you have any theories here?
GOLDBERG: Well, there's always a -- one of the through lines of the Trump years is that Trump can never fail. He can only be failed, right? That's the whole thing about the anti-Fauci's thing for a lot of people. Even though Fauci was Trump's guy, he somehow gets all the blame for all the policies that came out of the Trump administration.
Similarly, there's a whiff of that here, but it does feel like they're talking about somebody specific. I leave it to the DOJ criminologist.
WILLIAMS: Kremlinologist or criminologist? Kremlinologist? I don't know. And I've been trying to, is it someone at the DOJ? Is it someone at the White House? I just don't know.
It's -- well, whoever it is, the simple fact is these are senators and look, between my time at DOJ, DHS and Congress, I probably worked on 25 Senate confirmations like these kinds of fights are normal. It happens, but this is bonkers that they want to get to. Yes, these senators who wish to vote for this nominee. And someone somewhere, whether it's at the White House, within the DOJ, or the president himself, clearly are putting a roadblock up.
HUNT: We're not the only ones who both seem to think that there's someone specific here that these guys are talking about and also wondering who it might be. Here was Senator John Kennedy when he was asked what's going on with this. Watch his answer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): This is all I read into it right now, that there's a problem in all likelihood above Blanche's head, probably in the White House, maybe with the president. And I don't know what the White House's next move is going to be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[16:10:03]
HUNT: Now, Kennedy also had this to say when he was asked about whether it would be wise for the White House's next move to be pulling the Blanche nomination until Cornyn and Tillis are no longer senators. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Do you think it's risky to wait for January to try and get Blanche through as a permanent A.G.?
KENNEDY: Do I think what?
REPORTER: Do you think it's risky to wait until January for the 120th Congress?
KENNEDY: Well, duh, yeah, this place could be very different.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Congressman, what do you take away from all of that?
MEIJER: I mean, this is where, this is the beauty of a lame duck period. You know what the new year is going to look like, and you can kind of weigh those components.
HINOJOSA: Yeah, I think that everyone talks about this mysterious person that could potentially be involved. We all know that at the end of the day, Trump is making the decisions when it comes to everything having to do with the Justice Department, especially his own personal future when it comes to potential crimes that he has committed.
What I find interesting is if you look at when the Justice Department released the Weaponization Fund announcement, it was about one month after Pam Bondi left, and Todd Blanche signed off on the immunity agreement that would give Trump tax immunity. And so, this sounds to me like it was part of Todd Blanche auditioning for the job.
He was trying to tell Donald Trump, look, I have your back. I am not only going to give you this fund, but I'm going to provide you with immunity. Fast forward, he gets the job. He does a number of other things. He gets the job.
And now this same issue that likely secured the job for him is the thing that is probably going to tank his nomination. So, I think that all of this is coming circle for him.
WILLIAMS: What also is bonkers about it is imagine this is about both just pretend that it's about both the weaponization fund what's it's about January 6th and about the Trump settlement you're talking about the benefit of probably a few hundred people in the country this is potentially going to sink an entire attorney general confirmation process over a relatively small thing. You know, it's not talking about the entire state of Michigan or Wisconsin or something else. This is in the grand scheme of things that affect Americans' lives actually quite small.
GOLDBERG: Unless they had ambitions for the anti-weaponization fund different from what they've claimed.
WILLIAMS: Right, but certainly, but it seems that this was for January 6th, right? Or maybe anyone else who claims to have been wrong.
GOLDBERG: That's the pretext.
WILLIAMS: But, Jonah, but even then, the entire universe of people who could have potentially recovered from this fund is actually quite small, because in the grand scheme, it's not a lot of money.
GOLDBERG: I defer to the legal advice here, but I think once it gets -- if it got approved, it would effectively be a political slush fund that they could use as they saw fit.
WILLIAMS: Right.
GOLDBERG: Or that's what they would try to do and say, try and stop me.
WILLIAMS: I mean, Congressman, how do you understand the way the weaponization fund plays into this?
MEIJER: So I'm confused, because I think Todd Blanch a few months ago said the weaponization fund -- sorry, anti-weaponization fund, it's dead.
HUNT: But did not put it in writing.
HINOJOSA: He said it under oath, but he's now not putting it in writing, which is very weird.
GOLDBERG: And when Trump was asked about it, he said, I'd have to check with the lawyers. Of course, it's a great idea.
WILLIAMS: This could be done in two minutes with the signature from the attorney general. The whole thing could go away. They would have their attorney general in place, the attorney general of the president's choosing, which he is entitled to as a duly elected president of the United States, they could then nominate a new deputy.
All of this could be fixed, and as we are in an election year where people are complaining about prices and all kinds of other things, this is what they're choosing to spend their energy on. It is just bonkers.
MEIJER: And it's something that you're going to have Democrats asking incumbent Republicans about on a campaign trail as we get past the primaries and get closer. WILLIAMS: And in fact, I'll even add to that. Cornyn's whole point here, he's been saying, look, our guys can't explain this on the campaign trail. We are all being asked about it, and when we're asked to talk about it privately, I talk to my colleagues about it, we can't explain this. The president has created a mess for the entire Republican caucus and in turn also --
GOLDBERG: Because they're lame ducks, there's an argument that they are taking one for the team because they don't have -- they don't have an election to worry about the way some of their colleagues do.
HUNT: Right. I mean, the idea that they would be out there treating this the way they are -- well, yes, they may have beefed with President Trump for the way he handled things. The bottom line is the politics of this are not good for basically any of their colleagues and that's what you're seeing play out in public.
All right. Coming up next year in THE ARENA, brand new CNN polling on which party voters are favoring ahead of the midterms. But first, the transportation secretary, Sean Duffy, will join us live to talk about President Trump's latest renovation project, work the president says that both parties can agree should be done.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It's an impossible airport. You get off a bus, you go into a train, you get from a train, you get onto another bus. It's a worse airport, whether you're a Republican or Democrat, you don't want to go and be subjected to this airport.
[16:15:00]
This airport is a -- it's a terrible place to be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TRUMP: So we're doing something with Dulles that's going to make it, I think, the top, maybe the top anywhere in the world. You don't want to go and be subjected to this airport. This airport is a -- it's a terrible place to be.
This is very exciting to me as a builder, somebody that builds lots of big, nice projects before I got here. And we're doing some of the best in the world right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: President Trump's newest D.C. area construction project, the Dulles International Airport. The president unveiling a massive $22 billion project to renovate the -- and let's be honest -- widely disliked travel hub, aside from that beautiful main terminal originally designed by Eero Saarinen.
[16:20:14] The plan would include bolstered parking, modernized concourses, new lounges, among other things. The announcement comes, though, as 61 percent of U.S. adults say that President Trump has gone too far in remodeling Washington, D.C. landmarks, and just 27 percent say that the president has the right priorities.
Now, joining me now is someone who's going to play a big role in executing this project, the Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy.
Mr. Secretary, thanks for being here.
And I -- according to the chat that we had before we came on here, you are someone who has been subjected to the people movers of Dulles International Airport. So I think we can agree that perhaps that's something that we all love to hate here.
But Americans do say when we ask them that this president isn't focused on the right things when you talk to them about things like the ballroom, the reflecting pool, et cetera. Why is the president focused on this instead of some of the other things Americans think that he should be focused on?
SEAN DUFFY, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: So, first off, I'll get to that. But this airport, again, as I think everyone in the greater D.C. area recognizes, it's old. It should be the crown jewel of airports in America, as many people fly internationally into our capital city. They fly into Dulles, and it is, you know, some parts, you know, 50, 70 years old.
And so, to update it, to build it new, a brand-new terminal, brand-new concourses. our brand new lounges, we can fit more airplanes into Dulles. It's a great thing.
What is unique about President Trump, and I've spent a lot of time with him, he can do 20 things at the same time. So I'll be with him, and we'll have a conversation from two weeks ago. He can pick that conversation up two weeks later and have a conversation with me.
He can multitask. He works 12, 14 hours a day. The man never stops.
So why not maximize? Why can't we make Washington, D.C. beautiful? Why can't we have a beautiful reflecting pool? Why can't we have our fountains that actually work without graffiti on it and have a beautiful airport in D.C., all the while making sure we're executing on behalf of the American people?
HUNT: One feature of some of President Trump's projects has been to cement his own legacy or put his own name on the building, like in the case of the Kennedy Center, and there have been some questions. and perhaps a push to put Trump's name on Dulles International Airport, will this renovation project mean that Dulles will become Trump International?
DUFFY: You know, I'm going to spring this on you, you probably don't even know who Dulles is.
HUNT: I do actually, Allen Dulles, former director of CIA, yeah. I majored in international relations, sorry.
DUFFY: Very good, okay, good, okay. Most people don't, you do.
And so, listen, that's an issue for Congress, Congress would name Dulles, there's some airports that can be named by the state or local community. This would be a congressional activity to name it.
By the way, though, if I could, I would probably name it after President Trump, who's been an amazing president for the country, but I don't have that authority at DOT.
HUNT: Is there a lobbying effort on behalf of the White House to try to get Congress to do that?
DUFFY: Not that I'm aware of.
HUNT: There's been some reporting that the president had tried to convince Chuck Schumer to do it by using funding for a tunnel that's of great interest to New York and New Jersey. Have you been involved in conversations along those lines?
DUFFY: Oh, so you asked about the president. Is the president doing this? No, but you saw a lot of the union members who, by the way, in New York, and actually in New York and New Jersey love President Trump. They were the ones, and I agreed with them, it'd be great to have Penn Station be named after President Trump.
He's a great New York builder. He's been a great president. He's been great for their community. I think it's fantastic.
Penn Station is named after the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, no longer exists. But again, that didn't come from President Trump. That came from a lot of the union guys that were working on the tunnel and are going to eventually work on Penn Station.
They were pushing that with Chuck Schumer. And I had a conversation or two with Chuck Schumer and said, that's a great idea. We should actually do that.
HUNT: And Schumer's answer presumably was no.
DUFFY: Well, I don't want to talk about my private conversations with what Chuck says privately versus what he does publicly. That's probably not an appropriate conversation for the network, but they didn't match up.
HUNT: Fair enough.
One feature also that we've seen of this president's renovations project -- renovation projects is a focus on marble, gold leaf. Does the project proposal for Dulles include some of these favorite features of the president?
DUFFY: So, we're not there yet, so we're going to have information come back with our architects, with designers, and the president's going to take a look at it. [16:25:03]
Again, he builds very well. One of the best builders in America is President Trump. So, we get him for free and he'll put his eye on it and help us out. I think that's fantastic for no extra charge other than the salary that he's paid as the president.
But yeah, I want his input. He's a wonderful builder, but we haven't got to that place yet. I think in the middle of August, we're going to get some of those renderings back. We're going to have multiple companies that do it.
But I don't think that we should be ashamed of our capital city. I have Union Station, and we did a big press conference where we actually have a beautiful fountain that works again. I never even noticed it when I went by there because it was full of graffiti.
You should have a beautiful, safe city, and the president focuses on that. I think that should make Americans proud. No one should advocate for, I'm not saying that you are, but we shouldn't advocate for a violent capital city or a capital city that doesn't work, that doesn't have fountains that work, that has graffiti on it.
We are the greatest country on the face of the earth. We should have a capital city that is as beautiful as our country is, as beautiful as our founding documents are. We should have that.
We deserve that as Americans, and that he'll do that when no one else really was focused on it, I think is a gift to the country.
And I, along with Doug Burgum and others, have said, you know what? This is one of the last legacies that, by the way, maybe it's going to be President Gavin Newsom. I don't know. Whatever Democrat comes next, they're probably going to lean and say, you know what? This is a really good thing.
We want to also keep D.C. beautiful because this is bipartisan. Safety on our roads, a beautiful Dulles, a beautiful Washington, D.C. The last I checked, Democrats don't say we want to have things that are ugly and violent.
They, too, it's a human state of the heart. We want things to look nice, be beautiful, be safe where our families can go and enjoy. So that would be my take on it, and I think whoever comes next for Democrats, whether it's eight years, four years, they're all going to do the same thing, I think, because I think President Trump has set the high watermark.
HUNT: We'll have to call, we'll have to call Gavin Newsom and tell him that you promoted him here.
Sir, while I have you --
DUFFY: Don't put me down for that.
HUNT: Well, I have you on another important topic that comes under your purview. Earlier this week, the FAA said that hundreds of seats on Boeing 737 Max jets might have been installed incorrectly and present a safety risk to Americans who are flying. And I think it's worth noting that the FAA actually just recently gave Boeing more authority to do its own inspections.
Can Americans fully trust Boeing considering the string of failures that we've seen from the company?
DUFFY: So that's a great question. So, Boeing has been under significant constraint in supervision from the FAA. That Boeing is making safe planes and their successful company is good for America, but good for the flying public.
And so, it's -- this -- by the way, this is -- I let the safety people on the ground help advise us on what we're supposed to do. The safety individuals at Boeing, the work for the FAA wanted to partner with new people at Boeing as they go through some of the smaller certification process and free up their time to look at the bigger projects. as we're manufacturing airplanes.
So, I think it made a lot of sense. But again, if there's an issue that comes up, like you just mentioned, we go back and look at it. What went wrong? What rules do we have to change?
And you know this, I've been here for a year and a half, I'm doing all I can to drive aviation safety. But also, I think Americans want more efficiency. They want less delays.
And I can't control the weather. I can't control mechanical issues. But I can help advance air traffic control modernization, which is what I've leaned into hard. And we are well on our way. We got $12.5 billion in One Big, Beautiful Bill. We're going to spend that in the next two and a half years.
And again, this is something that's very bipartisan. If you go to the Hill and ask them what we're doing, they 100 percent agree because it doesn't serve a Republican and not a Democrat. It serves all of America when we do this stuff right.
And so, when we get reports of issues at Boeing, we go back and look. What went wrong? Let's remedy it. How many airplanes? Let's fix it.
And do we have to be more stringent in our review? Was it something that we did, something they did? But we're in that process right now.
HUNT: All right, Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy -- sir, thanks very much for joining us. Maybe I'll see you someday soon on A People Mover, or maybe we won't ever, because they'll be gone.
DUFFY: People seeing in the museum together, who knows?
HUNT: Someone's going to buy one and turn one into a bar.
Anyway, sir, thanks very much for being here. Hope to see you.
DUFFY: No doubt. Thanks. HUNT: All right, coming up next here in THE ARENA, more on that major blow to Todd Blanche's attorney general confirmation. Republican Congressman, Chair of the House Judiciary Committee, Jim Jordan joins us live here in THE ARENA, what he makes of Republican resistance from the Senate side of his party.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:34:23]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): That people are saying, you know what? Status quo policies no longer are good enough. We want a government that works for all of us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Establishment Democrats in Wisconsin are now part of the party's scramble to fend off insurgent socialists, Democratic socialists, that they fear could lose in purple states this November. One of those considered more moderate candidates, Mandela Barnes, dropped out of the Wisconsin governor's race today, making it more likely that Democratic Socialist Francesca Hong will win that primary next month.
[16:35:01]
This is alongside what is happening in Michigan, where Democrats will go to the polls on Tuesday. They're choosing between the moderate establishment Haley Stevens and the progressive Abdul El-Sayed in the Senate race there.
Now, new CNN polling finds that one in three Democrats identify as a Democratic socialist, and nearly half of Democrats say their party needs major change. Now, that's compared to about a quarter of Republicans who say the same about their party.
CNN's Donie O'Sullivan has been traveling the country to examine the growing power of the Democratic left.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: They don't win elections. They never run against Republicans. They just run against other Democrats. And their only message is we're going to blow everything up.
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: James Carville says this is all going to implode at the general election.
(LAUGHTER)
HASAN PIKER, PODCAST HOST: Yeah, as opposed to previous neoliberal Democratic candidacies that have been spectacular successes so far, Hillary Rodham Clinton in 2016 and Kamala Harris in 2024. There are a lot of people who are just like, this is not working. Cost of living crisis is completely out of control. Democrats haven't done anything about it. Republicans haven't done anything about it. There has to be a different alternative.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: And Donie O'Sullivan joins our panel now.
Donie, an interesting pair of voices you have there. Worth noting that Hassan Piker did appear with Abdul El-Sayed, something that he's taken no small amount of criticism for doing, although he's brushed that off.
What else did you learn as you were walking through this and talking to people across the country about the nature of their discontent, shall we say?
O'SULLIVAN: Yeah, Kasie, I mean, look, there's a huge amount of enthusiasm and excitement right now, I mean, particularly since what happened here in New York earlier this summer with DSA and Democratic Socialists and left-wing candidates winning across the board in the primaries.
But as you mentioned, Tuesday is the big test. It's sort of what both the center and the left are looking at. And because it's one thing to win in a deep blue place like New York, but how is a far-left candidate going to fare in the general election in a place like Michigan?
For somebody like a Hasan Piker there, he says that the most challenging thing for Democrats, for left Democrats, is to actually get out of the primary. But as you heard there from Carville, he's just not convinced that this is going to be a winning strategy across the country.
HUNT: Tony, did you talk at all to them about Black Democrats and the role that that voting bloc is going to play in the Michigan primary and why they are or aren't on board with the more progressive factions in the party?
O'SULLIVAN: Yeah, and as you can imagine, that was something that Carville really doubled down on, which we'll have more on Sunday night as part of this documentary. I think one other thing that is important to mention here, you know, before Hasan -- obviously Hasan Piker has grown in notoriety and in fame over the last few months, sort of becoming this player within the Democratic Party.
But we were actually with him back in 2024 at the DNC. I interviewed him there when the DNC tried to open up the tent, as it were, and brought in creators and streamers like him. And he was there at the convention overlooking the convention floor but refusing to endorse Harris. He didn't endorse Harris. He didn't tell his supporters to vote for Harris in the 2024 election.
And I think that is what we're really going to see play out next year, right, is at the end of this very long two-year primary process for presidential candidates, will this flank of the party get behind the candidate in 2028? I asked him that. I asked him that in our interview. If, you know, obviously his big issue in particular is Israel, and he doesn't think that he's going to have to back a candidate like Harris in 2028.
The far left are very confident right now that they're going to get a candidate they like through the primary process.
HUNT: Jonah Goldberg, can I get you to weigh in on that?
GOLDBERG: Yeah. So, just for level setting purposes, I don't take us on Piker seriously as a person. I think he's a reprehensible ideological buffoon. But that said, he does represent the constituency, and it's a very historic constituency. The radical left doesn't like conservatives, but man, does it hate liberals. And that crowd is very much like the most radical fringes of the Tea Party was in the Republican Party. It's all aimed at overthrowing the establishment.
[16:40:00]
You know, the juxtaposition between Carville and Piker is very interesting to me. Carville's a guy who's won, I don't know, hundreds of political campaigns in America over 30 years, 40 years.
Hasan Piker is an influencer who abuses this dog on camera. And he's very popular with a certain fringe bunch of people out there, but he doesn't care if the Democratic Party succeeds. He wins if the Democratic Party loses, and he wins if Democratic Socialists win. His interests are not aligned with winning in purple states, in swing states, and the like, and that's the problem with the DSA, and a lot of DSA leaders admit as much.
HINOJOSA: Yeah, I think that what you're seeing here is that voters want a party who can deliver, and they don't feel like they're getting that from either party. They want our elected leaders to go faster on costs. They want them to go faster on getting people health care, all of those things.
And they don't see the urgency from either party. And right now, you have a mayor of New York City who's actually delivering results. And I think that people somewhat see that.
There are two other polls that also came out today, this week. One was talking about how a majority of Americans don't even know what socialism is. And the other is that a majority of Americans wouldn't vote for a Democratic socialist for president.
So, what Democrats are going to have to confront over the next year and a half is who is the nominee that can actually ultimately win in a general election. And those two things are very different, the primary electorate versus the general electorate. At the end of the day, we saw what happened when in 2020, the Democratic Party brand was also not great, but Democrats at the end of the day picked someone who could ultimately win.
And I do think that the way that the Democratic map is now for 2028 with South Carolina first, et cetera, will potentially produce a nominee that can ultimately win in the general election.
MEIJER: I just want to push back on the idea that Zoran Mamdani is, like, delivering. I mean, he's delivering great social media content. Agreed. And a lot of these folks, the sheen, I mean, one of the differences between Hasan Piker and Nick Fuentes is production value, about six feet, and somebody who can bench maybe 300 pounds in Hasan Piker, and I don't know what Nick Fuentes can do, but he's got little noodle arms.
But when it comes to Zoran Mamdani, he's doing this fantastic social media content.
HINOJOSA: On cost, he is delivering on cost.
MEIJER: How? He hasn't done that yet. I mean, he's balanced the budget --
(CROSSTALK)
HINOJOSA: -- freezing the rent, things like that.
MEIJER: Yeah, freezing the rent, which is good if you're in a rent controlled house, which a lot of --
HINOJOSA: Which a lot of people in New York City are.
WILLIAMS: And so, this is the central point, which is that it might work in New York City.
HINOJOSA: It doesn't get to work --
WILLIAMS: It may not work in Michigan.
HINOJOSA: Correct, that's right.
MEIJER: He can get away with it in the short term, but eventually it's all going to come crashing down and I guarantee you, I know who they're going to blame.
HUNT: All right. Donie O'Sullivan, thank you so much for being with us. It's really interesting. conversations you've had here.
And please don't miss Donie's episode of "THE WHOLE STORY". It's going to air Sunday at eight o'clock Eastern right here on CNN, and you can watch it the next day on the CNN app.
Coming up next here, Congressman Jim Jordan will join us in THE ARENA to talk about the new CNN polling that could spell trouble for congressional Republicans ahead of the midterms.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:47:36]
HUNT: All right, welcome back. With his attorney general nomination hanging in the balance, CNN is
now learning that Todd Blanche privately met with Senators John Cornyn and Thom Tillis this afternoon, two of the three Republican senators who have yet to commit to voting for him.
Sources say the meeting lasted about 45 minutes, but it's unclear whether to break a logjam over Blanche's stalled nomination.
Joining me now, the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, Republican Jim Jordan of Ohio.
Congressman, Mr. Chairman, thank you very much for being here. I really appreciate it.
REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH), CHAIR, JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: You bet, Kasie. You bet.
HUNT: The president has said that he would consider postponing Blanche's nomination until after John Cornyn and Thom Tillis leave the Senate.
JORDAN: Yeah.
HUNT: That, of course, would be in the new Congress.
Do you think that would be advisable for the president to do?
JORDAN: Well, I'm for whatever gets Todd Blanche confirmed. If that's what the president thinks is required, then that's great in my mind. Todd Blanche has done an excellent job. Crime's down, homicides down. This anti-fraud task force they've set up, Colin McDonald running that, indicting people who are taking and ripping off taxpayers.
So I think Todd's done an outstanding job. I hope he's confirmed, and I don't understand why Senator Tillis and Senator Cornyn haven't done that yet.
HUNT: Well, it seems to be pretty clear that they want assurances that the anti-weaponization fund will not move forward and that they have issues with the agreement that the Justice Department made to make sure that the Trumps are not audited by the IRS. Are you supportive of that settlement?
JORDAN: Well, Todd said it's dead. I think he said that multiple times. So, I don't know what is going on in these negotiations. The guy who's going to be, hopefully, the next attorney general has said this thing is finished.
So I don't understand why they're holding it --
(CROSSTALK)
HUNT: I mean, put it in writing. Why he wouldn't put in writing?
JORDAN: Well, if that's the agreement, then I don't know that he hasn't done that. All we know is -- HUNT: What he told the House committee that he wouldn't put it in
writing.
JORDAN: I mean, he's the attorney general. He's the acting attorney general. He said it's dead. They're not going to do it. I don't know what else it takes.
(CROSSTALK)
HUNT: Well, you're a lawyer. Will you actually not -- I mean, don't you tell any clients you've ever had get in writing? Isn't that like, I don't know, legal 101. I'm not a lawyer, full disclosure.
JORDAN: I'm not a lawyer either. I went to law school, graduated, didn't take the bar exam. So I don't know.
But what I do know is Todd Blanche --
HUNT: Did they not teach you this in law school though?
JORDAN: -- said that he is not going to -- well, you can get it in writing. I don't know that matter. And maybe that's part of the agreement. I don't know what's being negotiated now, Kasie.
What I do know is Senator Cornyn and Senator Tillis voted to confirm Merrick Garland, and they won't vote to confirm a guy who's doing a great job running the Justice Department? I don't get it. They do not -- Garland was the guy who did the memorandum saying, oh, we're going to smile on moms and dads at school board meeting. Garland's Justice Department were the ones who did the memorandum and said, if you're a pro-life Catholic, you're an extremist.
And they confirmed him, but won't vote for Todd Blanche? The guy who's attacking the fraud that --
(CROSSTALK)
HUNT: Well, I think the issue is partly that they want to use taxpayer money to pay people who hurt cops on January 6th.
JORDAN: I think -- no, no, no, no. The Weaponization Fund is set up to help people like Mark Houck, where the Garland FBI kicked in his door pre-dawn raid when his lawyer said he's happy to turn himself in. And he went to court --
HUNT: There certainly may be others, but it also includes those January 6 people --
(CROSSTALK)
JORDAN: -- the jury found him not guilty. It's for people like that. And the board -- the board -- remember how this was set up? The board evaluates that. So --
(CROSSTALK) HUNT: But they wouldn't rule out that it could go to people who beat cops on January 6th. They refused to rule it out. The officials did. The vice president refused to rule it out.
JORDAN: FBI whistleblowers that came forward that they wanted to retaliate against Those are the people it was designed to help.
And oh, by the way, this same fund paid Peter Strzok $1.2 million, paid Lisa Page $800,000. So, you've got to be kidding me. Mark Huock doesn't qualify, but somehow they do?
HUNT: This anti-weaponization fund has not yet been set up.
JORDAN: That's what the press has all got long about this.
HUNT: But let's move on here. I want to ask you about what we saw from Anthony Fauci, who may be the subject of a contempt vote in Congress after he pled the Fifth repeatedly in his hearing. You know, worth noting, you ignored a subpoena in 2022. Do you think that Fauci should be held in contempt for what we saw from him?
JORDAN: We're going back to look at the transcript, look what he said. What I do know is everything he told us turned out to be false. And now that we have his diary, we learned he was more arrogant than we even thought he was. And he knew at the time things he was telling the American people were not accurate.
Never forget, Kasie, this guy, this guy, think about this. He told us it didn't come from a lab when it did. He told us it wasn't gain of function done at the lab when it was. He told us it wasn't our tax money used to finance the research done at that lab in China when in fact it was.
He said the vaccinated couldn't get it. That was wrong. The vaccinated couldn't transmit it. That was wrong.
He told us masks work. That was wrong. He told us six feet social distancing was based on science. That was wrong.
And he told us this virus, there was no natural immunity. He was O for eight. And he was also the most arrogant individual you've ever seen. And that was confirmed by his diary.
And he knew at the time those things he was telling us were -- was not accurate. And somehow that that's okay?
(CROSSTALK)
JORDAN: Kasie, if I was him, I'm taking the Fifth, too.
HUNT: I was asking if you think he should be held in contempt.
JORDAN: We're looking at -- we're going back off. We're going back and looking at all the transcripts and seeing what he said. We're going to evaluate all that. I know Senator Paul is looking at that as well. We will see. HUNT: All right. I also want to ask you about something a little closer to home. There is a colleague of yours in the Ohio delegation, Max Miller, who is facing allegations of abuse from an ex-wife of the wife and his then toddler daughter. Do you think that Max Miller, who denies this abuse, should he resign from Congress in light of the accusations?
JORDAN: Well, this is a family matter. I know Max is a good man. I was up campaigning for him. I hope he wins re-election. He's done a good job as a member of Congress, and we should all pray for his family.
These are difficult times that they're going through. We understand that. These kind of situations always are.
But Max is a good member and a colleague and hopefully, he's going to win re-election. But ultimately, in the end, that's up to the voters in his district. We were up helping Max just a few weeks ago at a campaign event up in his district in the northern part of our state.
HUNT: So, I mean, it's just worth noting, the allegations include that Miller scalded his ex-wife's chest and stomach when he threw hot water at her, that he held a gun to her head, that he pushed her against a wall and hit her in the head, that he fractured their daughter's collarbone and bruised her shoulder, that his two-year-old daughter reportedly told his ex-wife quote, "Daddy kill you".
JORDAN: Yeah, Kasie, I'm not --
HUNT: I want to play for you what you said when you were asked about Graham Platner who faced allegations of abuse.
JORDAN: I'm not --
HUNT: Let's watch what you told --
JORDAN: I'm not -- I'm not -- I've not heard all this stuff.
HUNT: Well, it was in "The New York Times". It was in "The New York Times". That's the list of allegations. It's been out there for a while.
I just want to show you what you told Newsmax when you saw that Graham Plattner was facing these accusations. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JORDAN: That's always been the case with Democrats. It's all about maintaining power. They will take any crazy position as long as it furthers their ability to win elections and get power and, frankly, to go against anyone that goes against President Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Why does that not apply here to Republicans who want to keep power in the seat? JORDAN: Well, I don't know the context of the question I was asked about Mr. Platner, but my guess is it was about all the ridiculous positions he's taken.
HUNT: The banner there says Platner's ex-girlfriend accuses him of abuse.
JORDAN: The Nazi tattoo and everything else. Yeah, well, I don't know. I didn't answer. I don't know that answered that question. I think I was dealing with just who he was as a candidate and the crazy anti-Semitic, anti-Israel, pro-Nazi positions that he has taken, I think is evidenced by the fact that he had a, what, a Nazi tattoo on his chest.
HUNT: All right. Congressman Jim Jordan, thanks for spending time.
JORDAN: And frankly, it wasn't me that kicked him off the ballot. It was the Democrats.
HUNT: All right. Fair enough, sir. Thank you very much.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HUNT: Thanks so much for being with us.
"THE LEAD", anchored by Pamela Brown, starts right now.
