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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt

GOP'S First-Ever Midterm Convention Starts In Dallas; Democrats Descend On Texas To Counter Trump's Midterm Convention; Financial Disclosure: Trump Gave $45,000 Cash Gift To Natalie Harp. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired September 09, 2026 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Dan, I think it's really amazing what you're doing. And like you said, they're really curious about it. So, it's a really thoughtful way to take them through it. Dan Lewer, thanks for being with us.

DAN LEWER, HISTORY TEACHER & CREATOR, "HISTORY FOR HUMANS": Yeah, thank you guys so much for having me. Appreciate it.

KEILAR: We appreciate you.

And THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now.

(MUSIC)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Breaking news, the first ever Republican midterm convention is beginning right now.

Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA.

As we come on the air, Republicans are opening their first midterm convention in history. It comes with just 55 days until election day as their party faces growing odds over losing -- of losing one or both chambers of Congress.

With the next two days, of course, all about one man. President Donald Trump, who will arrive in Dallas any minute after a bizarre moment on the tarmac in Maryland when one of the inflatable emergency slides on the new $400 million-plus Qatari Air Force One deployed for some reason.

The president claiming they were just checking something. In any event, he is set to feature heavily, and he will headline both nights. After all, the whole thing was his idea.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: The President called me two nights before Thanksgiving last fall, and he said, Mike, we got to do a midterm convention. And I said, that's not a thing. And he said, make it a thing. We're going to parade all of our stars across the stage. We're going to talk about what we've done for the people.

And then the president's going to look right into the camera and say, I am on the ballot, okay? Because even though his name isn't, right, his administration, his legacy, the America First agenda is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: The trouble is not every Republican wants to be associated with what the RNC chair described as a Trump-a-palooza. Several candidates in tough races say they're skipping it. And with the president's approval rating in the low 30s, it is not hard to imagine why that might be.

Perhaps nowhere is he more vulnerable than on rising gas prices. Renewed fighting with Iran has sent gas to record levels for this time of year and diesel to its highest price ever. President Trump this afternoon gave his latest prediction for when the war would end and prices would come down. Let's just watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Shortly, but right after the election, because they'd like to have it that way, but right after the election, oil prices are going to be tumbling downward. They're going to be tumbling down and we'll get them down. I think for gasoline, we'll get them below $2 a gallon.

REPORTER: But not until after the midterm?

TRUMP: I think it's going to take a little bit longer than the midterm.

I think the war will end immediately after the election. Yes, a negotiation could possibly happen, but it's not something we're looking at. This war will end immediately after our election. Thank you very much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right, let's get off the sidelines, head into THE ARENA. My panel is going to be here along with CNN senior White House reporter Alayna Treene, who is in Dallas at the site of this Republican gathering.

Alayna, the president is set to land soon where you are in Dallas. What are you hearing?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, look, I mean, this is really an all-out push, Kasie, to try and drum up as much support as the party can ahead of the midterm elections. At a time, of course, and you actually can hear a lot of the programming actually beginning behind me, so apologies if this is loud.

But really, at a time when the party recognizes that the odds necessarily aren't in their favor. We know that President Trump obviously is seeing really poor polling numbers and a lot of concerns over key issues that they've just failed to really push and make any headway on things like of course, the Iran war and concerns over that being dragged out, the economy overall.

So, a lot that we'll see what the president addresses. But I will tell you from the conversations that I've had with members of even the president's own political operation is they believe the key to success is energizing the president's base. They believe that driving as much support from his core supporters, the people in the MAGA universe, to the polls in November is going to be how they win. And that's exactly what this entire event over the next two days is really meant to do.

And in many ways, it is a Trump-a-palooza. This is not really about totally just boosting the different candidates who might be vulnerable in their midterm elections and in some of those battleground states, but really about boosting Trump and his own popularity at this moment in time. Something that's interesting is, despite the president arguing that this is unprecedented, which it is, but that there's going to be as many Republicans as there could be, that this is going to be sold out. He made those comments again today when traveling here to Dallas.

We've heard from many Republicans who actually very wary about this, wary of whether or not the timing of this is right. I know actually that, there's going to be some NFL games competing with these keynote speakers tonight, including the president's speech and the vice president's tomorrow. There's 9/11 events commemorating. the terror attacks that they are competing against with well and, of course, we also heard from Republicans who said they were just wary of the really high prices to get to this rally at all.

The ticket prices are thousands of dollars. So, you will be seeing some major named Republicans not here. Some also argue that of course they need to be out in their districts, out campaigning in their states going to all these different events. But it's interesting, you know, as at a time when there's also concerns we know that some Republicans have about whether or not tying themselves to Trump at this point when his popularity isn't doing as well, whether or not that's a good move so close to the midterm elections.

But look, I know from the conversations I've been having with people throughout the Trump administration, they want him to talk about the key issues that they think will help really get to that point of trying to energize voters, trying to talk more about affordability, trying to talk about what they call the Big, Beautiful Bill that they passed last year, all of the things that they feel like Republicans aren't messaging very well on at this point. We'll see, however, if he actually stays on message, Kasie.

HUNT: Always a question.

All right. Alayna Treene for us in Dallas -- Alayna, thank you very much.

All right, my panels here in THE ARENA. Chief Washington correspondent for Puck, Leigh Ann Caldwell, CNN legal analyst, former federal prosecutor Elliot Williams, CNN political commentator and former communications director for Vice President Kamala Harris, Jamal Simmons, along with former White House communications director in the first Trump administration, Mike Dubke.

Welcome to all of you. Thank you so much for being here.

Mike, I mean, listen, you can see in the pictures next to Elena what the president is doing here, right? He has produced a television spectacle, which is something that he has expertise in and focuses on. But is it going to make an actual difference when the rubber meets the road?

MIKE DUBKE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, I think, look, to be intellectually consistent here, we've been making the argument as Republicans for years that the party has, over the last several elections, the party does well when Donald Trump is on the ballot, and then we don't when he's not. So, '18, '22, and now we're in 2026 in the midterms.

So, if you believe that you need Donald Trump to be on the ballot, as Speaker Johnson said, you know, think of him as being on the ballot, You know, it's important for him to be out front on all of these things.

The one thing I really do hope for, and you've touched on this, is that we do talk about affordability, we do talk about the cost of living, because there are a lot of good things that came to taxpayers in this last go around, tax cuts, the no tax on tips, no tax on overtime, 97 percent of Americans who owed taxes got an average of a reduction of $800, so it's a lot of good things that are out there.

Hopefully, they'll talk about it this week.

HUNT: Jamal Simmons for Democrats who are watching this, they're thinking what?

JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: They're thinking the Republicans have a fundamental problem. And their fundamental problem is that MAGA isn't making America great. MAGA is making America weaker.

And so, the problem here is you've seen In the economy, credit card delinquencies are going up, personal savings rates are going down. Now the president's putting a tariff on Canadian products that's going to raise taxes on ice hockey sticks as people are getting ready to go back to school or going back to school.

HUNT: It's a very specific population, I guess.

SIMMONS: And 40,000 kids in Michigan play hockey, right?

HUNT: OK, that's fair. That's fair.

DUBKE: There's only two Canadian brands that are affected by this.

SIMMONS: And you know what else taxes are going up on?

DUBKE: You can have a hockey conversation if you want.

SIMMONS: You know what else taxes are going up on? They're going up on Labatt's, right? So, every parent that needs --

HUNT: That seems slightly more relevant.

SIMMONS: It's also going to have a problem.

HUNT: Although we make a lot of good beer here in America.

SIMMONS: So, you look at the economy, you look at also what's happening in the military. They're stretching the military thin, as we're seeing in Iran, and they're also stressing out the military leadership. They're not replacing people in the upper ranks.

And for the first time, we may have a Navy without a single woman nominated to be an admiral. That's because of Pete Hegseth and Donald Trump. They're not helping to make the country greater. They are actually making the country a little bit weaker.

HUNT: Leigh Ann, you're up on the hill all day. You're talking to candidates running in these tough races. What are you hearing about and what's the difference between someone who's showing up here, who's on stage here, and someone who has no interest in being there but has to pretend that they are just busy doing other things?

LEIGH ANN CALDWELL, CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, PUCK NEWS: Well, some of the ones who are not there are not there because they don't want to pay the $25,000 ticket price that House Republicans have to pay to attend this, which is quite expensive, especially if you have a campaign to run. But, you know, I was asking members of Congress if they were going to go or not, why or why not. They had a whole range of answers from I'm going to go to support the party to no, I don't want to be seen there. I have better things to do. It happened. This convention was planned after I already had a schedule that was set.

But the reality is, is that they have to make their personal decisions on what is best for their districts. There is a lot of implications, as Mike said. House Republicans have said throughout this entire cycle that the only way they have any chance of winning is if they stand with the president.

[16:10:02]

Especially now when the political environment is so bad for the president, it seems ironic, but the reason is because if no one's going to vote for you, at least you need those Trump supporters to get out to vote for you. And so, it's on an individual basis of what each member decides what they want to do, and a lot of them decided that they would actually not want to take two days off the campaign trail and talk to their voters instead.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: And that's the big point, this whole idea of two days off the campaign trail. When we think about conventions, the big presidential conventions, they're typically earlier in the year. They're in July or August.

Labor Day, for folks who don't follow campaigns closely, Labor Day is the kickoff of the campaign season, and it could be devastating for members of the House to take time away from fundraising or town halls or meeting with constituents. The timing of this is just awful for a lot of these members of the House. They really have a hard choice to make. It's do I wish to spend a few days in Ohio with the president and all the things that means or actually be out there campaigning. They can't win if they don't campaign.

SIMMONS: At least they're not on the South Lawn this time.

HUNT: That's --

SIMMONS: We've seen that before.

HUNT: Yes.

We should note this is the chairman of the Republican National Committee who is taking the stage here in Dallas right now. And, of course, Democrats have sent various elected officials, lawmakers, governors to Dallas to try and counter-program, which, again, this is entirely a presidential-nominating convention that normally takes place in the summer has an actual stated purpose for each party, right? They have to come together. They have to choose a nominee for president.

This is functionally an artifice, right, which is why we've never seen it before. So, here's a little bit of what the Democrats are doing to try to grab some attention for the message they have. This was Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker, who we'll talk to in just a bit, at a press conference earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. J.B. PRITZKER (D), ILLINOIS: This bizarre Republican midterm convention here can't paper over the fact that Republicans have done nothing to earn your vote. I'm done pretending that these self- dealing, racist, misogynist grifters are an aberration of the Republican Party. They are the mainstream of the Republican Party now. Nothing Republicans say over the next two days is going to change how clinically deranged and out of touch the GOP has become.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Jamal, is that the right message for Democrats right now?

SIMMONS: You know, I think Pritzker is on the message to take care of himself as well as Democrats. I've done this before. In 2008, I ran the Democratic War Room in St. Paul during the Republican Convention. It's a really tough job.

HUNT: It's thankless.

(LAUGHTER)

HUNT: It was a thankless job.

SIMMONS: No reporters there for the most part. So, you only get one or two clips out of it. And so, you know, the governor's going to do his part, and he's obviously making the case for himself, not just for the party.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, but at the same time, look, a third of the country, roughly, a third of registered identify as Republicans. When you're starting to use language of racist grifters, you turn people off.

And I just wonder, to Kasie's point, or at least to Kasie's question, yes, the president's unpopular, yes, there are many things about the Republican Party that are turning people off, but is that the kind of language that is there to win people to Democrats' cause? I don't know if that's it.

HUNT: Is that a little '28 or '26?

WILLIAMS: A little 2020, I think.

DUBKE: I also want to fact-check something here. The Democrats used to do these back in the '70s, these midterm conventions. I think it didn't turn out so well for them at some point. So, this is -- might be the first time Republicans are doing this, but this is something that Democrats have done before. So, I'm going to take that issue with the governor.

But it is a game about numbers. I keep coming back to this. What I mean by that is, if you look at the special elections that Republicans have lost since 2024, it really is a game of turnout. The Democrats have turned out at Kamala Harris levels. And the Republicans have not. And if we can get Republicans back turning out, it's more of a fair and flat playing field.

And I think that's part of what they're trying to accomplish.

WILLIAMS: Even with the president --

DUBKE: I am putting my best spin on this.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: You're nothing if not honest. That's why I love you, Mike Dubke.

But the president with a 34 percent approval rating, though --

DUBKE: Yeah, but he still has a lot of love with his base. And him telling them to go out, which we did not see in the special elections, I think is going to be important and a change.

CALDWELL: This is important I think for the party to try to get people to turn out like Mike said but also, this is a massive fundraiser for Republicans. They are raising tremendous amount of money throughout this process. And so, because there is no party planning being done, there's no party activity. There's no platform. This ultimately is a production for the president and for the

Republicans and a huge opportunity to raise tens of millions of dollars.

SIMMONS: Well, Kasie, you know that they're also going to try to spend a lot of time creating content to be used for social media.

[16:15:03]

HUNT: Right.

SIMMONS: They understand really well, 50 percent of people are getting their news just scrolling on their phones, they've got to feed those people something.

HUNT: Right. And if you look at what the RNC is saying on the record about why they're doing it, reminding people that they're -- who may not otherwise vote that there's an election, that's what it's about, right, putting these clips on people's phones right in front of their faces.

All right, coming up next here in THE ARENA, a new multimillion-dollar investment in the 2026 midterms coming today for a potential 2028 presidential contender. We'll talk with the man behind it, Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker. He's here in THE ARENA live from Dallas, where he and other Democrats are counter-programming the GOP's midterm convention.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. J.B. PRITZKER (D), ILLINOIS: Nothing Republicans say over the next two days is going to change how clinically deranged and out of touch the GOP has become. And they chose the wrong place to hold this clown show of theirs because a new generation of candidates is rewriting the rules of Texas politics.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:20:21]

HUNT: As Republicans descend on Dallas right now for the party's first ever midterm convention, so too are some Democrats, including a delegation from the House there to counterprogram the GOP event.

Our next guest is one of those Democrats.

Joining me now in THE ARENA is the Democratic governor of Illinois, J.B. Pritzker. Governor, it's great to have you back with us here in THE ARENA. You're coming to us from Texas. It's a midterm convention.

What do you hope to accomplish by being in Dallas right now?

PRITZKER: It's important to call out the lies. The president is going to be spewing them all over the place, all of his bootlickers behind him, including his chief bootlicker, J.D. Vance. And so, I think we Democrats are just going to have to make sure that people understand this is simply a show.

What we know about Donald Trump and Republicans in Congress is they are raising prices on everyone. They've taken us to war. People are dying. Your gas prices have gone up, your diesel prices have gone up, your grocery prices have gone up, and they're taking away health care and food assistance from working people across this country. We Democrats are fighting for working families, and that's what I want to make clear to everyone.

HUNT: Governor, the president actually just spoke. He is traveling today to Texas to kick off this convention. And he said that he thinks that he'll get gas prices below $2 a gallon, but not until after the midterm elections. What do you say to that?

PRITZKER: What I have to say to that is this is the president who ran in 2024 and told you that on day one, he was going to lower prices. He was going to end forever wars. And what do you know, he's done neither. In fact, he's done the opposite.

Prices have gone up since he took office. And of course, we're in this endless war in Iran. He can't stop it, does not know what he's doing. And after complaining about Joe Biden's age, he himself, President Trump that is, suffering from dementia. And I think we can all see that. So I think that that's what I would say about whatever he's promising for the future, you know he never delivers.

HUNT: I want to play for you something that you said actually here on this show about a year or so ago as we were talking about what we might expect in this midterm elections. I want to watch it, and then we'll talk about whether you think you still feel this way. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRITZKER: Here we are in 2025. He is becoming more unpopular he is likely to lose the 2026 elections and he's sending troops into American cities and particularly in blue states in blue cities. To put them on the ground get us used to the idea of having military on the ground, I believe, because he then will say, well, I'm going to go protect our polling places in Illinois. And then if he is losing the elections, meaning the Congress, he will frankly just seize the ballot boxes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: And apologies, that was actually you with Stephen A. Smith, although we had a similar conversation. Do you still believe that that's what the president intends to do this fall?

PRITZKER: Well, we've seen it, of course. He has sent troops into American cities. We, of course, took him to court in Illinois and won all the way to the Supreme Court. We won in the Supreme Court to prevent him from sending National Guard into our streets. We can't prevent him from sending CBP and ICE, and he did that in Chicago. He did that across Illinois. He did that in Minnesota.

As to the elections, He still can call out ICE and CBP and send them to, well, wherever he wants for the elections. And I expect that he may try to do that. They'll be wearing camouflage uniforms. They'll be carrying automatic weapons like they did when they invaded our city before.

What our job is as governors and in our states is to protect people's right to vote. And that means making sure we've got an organization, either a state organization or a party organization that is escorting people into the voting booth so that they know that they can get past these. Well, these folks can't come within 100 feet in Illinois of a polling place. So, we're going to protect people's right to vote.

Now, as to seizing the ballot boxes, We clearly are we've got an entire legal team that is designed to prevent precisely what I had predicted last year.

So yes, I'm worried about all of it, and we Democratic governors have talked about that, and we're all in various ways, depending on what state you're in and what the rules are in that state, taking action to prevent it.

[16:25:03]

HUNT: I want to ask you about the politics, of course, of the election as well. You've talked quite a bit about Donald Trump and Republicans. Democrats are set to benefit from the low approval rating of the president, but people are also telling us in polls that it's not necessarily because the Democratic brand is strong. They don't necessarily trust anyone in power.

Do you think if Democrats do take back majorities in the House and potentially the Senate, it will be because of the Democratic brand or in spite of it?

PRITZKER: Well, you talk about the Democratic brand, but let me talk about Democratic policies, because I think that is why Democrats will retake the Congress.

We're the ones who are fighting for affordability. Remember, we're the party who brought you Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, the Voting Rights Act, the Civil Rights Act. We believe in all those things, and those are the things that people want restored in this country and protected, the very things that Donald Trump is trying to take away. So I believe that's why people will vote for Democrats.

As to the brand -- look, the Republican brand isn't very popular. The Democratic brand isn't very popular. I think politicians are not popular in general. What is popular, however, is team fight.

That is, people who are willing to stand up and push back on behalf of working families, on behalf of people who are struggling in this country the middle class, the working class, and the most vulnerable. And so that's what Democrats are doing. It's why I think, you know, Democratic governors are having a big impact because we've been delivering for people in our states.

But people, when they go to the polls in November and I'm running for reelection, I think they're going to remember and know that it's Republican, MAGA Republicans in particular, but all Republicans and Donald Trump, who are trying to take your rights away and try to take away the very things that make your life easier. And it's Democrats who are fighting to restore those and put money in your pocket.

HUNT: Do you think that the elite of the Democratic Party has lost touch with working Americans? Do you think that their understanding as we head toward this election their concerns, or is there still a disconnect?

PRITZKER: I think you're seeing that there are candidates across the country who are exciting people, who are addressing the challenges that people really have in their lives every day. And that is instructive, I think, to the broader Democratic establishment in the country.

Those of us who are out in the hinterland, so to speak, I mean, in the center of the country, we're the ones who are talking to people, we're listening to people, and we're addressing their problems and talking about the real things affecting people's lives.

So, I think that that message of the new candidates, the younger candidates that are running, and those of us who are truly listening to middle America. That is going to overtake kind of this, you know, malaise, let's say, that you may have seen in past years among Democrats.

And I think that we're going to see a big win for Democrats in '26, setting up a big win in '28.

HUNT: So speaking of trying to win in '26, as you say, you recently announced you've created a new PAC to try to target some seats that are in particular in your neighborhood.

What are you planning to do and why?

PRITZKER: Well, I'm the honorary chair of the Ready for the Fight PAC, and it's really designed to go into districts that are a little bit further out of reach. Everybody knows the districts that are on the bubble where maybe the district voted for Kamala Harris in '24 but voted for a Republican for Congress, or Biden in 2020 and voted for Republican for Congress, those are the ones that are obvious, right? Maybe there are plus two type of districts.

But there are a lot of districts out there that are more Republican. Maybe there are plus five, or at least they have been historically. And now you're seeing so many disaffected Republicans, particularly farmers, ranchers, who have been tossed aside by Donald Trump and by MAGA Republicans, people who've had their medical care taken away from them, Medicaid or their insurance taken away because of what Donald Trump has done.

So, in those districts, I think we can make a big difference. That's outside of maybe the focus of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, because there's only so much money in the committee to go around. So, if we go to those slightly off-center districts, let's say, and help those candidates, I really think we can make a difference and maybe turn this into a big wave election and not just a blue election.

HUNT: Interesting. So, of course, part of why you're able to do this is because you come to this with enormous personal financial resources, and you are, of course, talked about as a potential candidate for president in 2028. But, of course, it's going to be an environment or it's shaping up to be an environment where billionaires are more often a target than a group of people that are held in esteem.

I want to play a couple of things that some prominent Democrats are out there saying, and then we'll ask you about it.

[16:30:00]

Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JON OSSOFF (D-GA): How does American politics really work? It's coin-operated. It's been running on secret money, corporate money, billionaire money, both sides.

TROY JACKSON (D), MAINE SENATE CANDIDATE: The billionaires and corporations rigging this economy keep getting richer.

ABDUL EL-SAYED (D), MICHIGAN SENATE CANDIDATE: The disease is the system that allows big corporations, billionaires, special interests like AIPAC to buy and sell politicians.

We're going to get money out of?

CROWD: Politics!

EL-SAYED: Put money in your?

CROWD: Pockets!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So how do you think about this in the context of a potential run for yourself, this kind of demonization of billionaires?

PRITZKER: I'm not worried about myself. What I am worried about is the rigging of the American elections, as well as the rigging of the system against working families.

And you know, I've been governor of Illinois for seven and a half years. I've been fighting that very rigging. I've been standing up for our working families. It's what I believe in.

What I think we've got to do is push back as hard as we can against this attack on democracy that Donald Trump and MAGA Republicans are making. And that's why I'm engaged all over the country, as well as in Illinois, to elect Democrats, because we have to change the direction of this country. We have to make sure that Donald Trump doesn't have the ability to continue to attack our working families and to continue to take us into wars that he can't win and that are costing the American people.

HUNT: All right. Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker, always great to have you on the show. I hope you'll come back soon.

PRITZKER: Great to see you, Kasie.

HUNT: All right, coming up next here in THE ARENA, a cash windfall for some top White House aides. What we know about why President Trump gave $45,000 in cash to some of the people in his innermost circle, including close aide Natalie Harp.

Plus, our new CNN polling in two of the most critical Senate races, who's up, who's down, what voters in Maine and Michigan are telling our teams on the ground.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:36:24]

HUNT: Welcome back.

We've got new reporting on some financial disclosure statements. They show President Trump gave $45,000 in cash gifts around the holidays to three of his female aides at the White House. Those aides are Natalie Harp, the president's executive assistant, Chamberlain Harris, the deputy director of Oval Office Operations, and Margo Martin, a communications advisor.

The president also gifted $20,000 to Walt Nauta, who is a longtime aide who was once charged in the federal case involving Trump's handling of classified documents. That case was ultimately dropped after the 2024 election.

The White House Press Office says the president has a long-standing practice of giving Christmas gifts to people in his orbit. "The Washington Post" was the first to report on this story.

Former attorney for Donald Trump, Bill Brennan, joins our panel now.

And, Bill, I will start with you. Is this appropriate?

WILLIAM J. BRENNAN, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR DONALD TRUMP: I mean, it seems to me, Christmas gifts, who's not in favor of Christmas gifts?

HUNT: I mean, have you ever gotten 45 grand for Christmas? You know, someone like the President of the United States.

BRENNAN: Yeah, never been that fortunate. There's a couple old Matchbox bars or something, but the president's a very generous guy. He comes in, you know, he hasn't taken a salary in the six years he's been there. So, it's not like he needs the money.

And I think he looks at this as, I want a reward at Christmas time, at the holidays. I want a reward by aides. And I think it's purely in the nature of a Christmas gift. I don't think there's anything untoward about it. And I don't think there's anything illegal about it.

And frankly, I don't think there's anything unethical about it. More people should give Christmas gifts.

HUNT: I mean, these are, we should note, like his closest aides and, you know, relatively junior aides, but people who have showed just absolutely intense loyalty. I mean, the president, according to Jonathan Swan and Maggie Haberman in "Regime Change," says of Natalie Harp, quote, "All of you will go off and make money." He would say, "She'll never leave me." Right?

Is that what this is about, rewarding that loyalty?

BRENNAN: Well, again, I think it is just a Christmas gift. But it's no secret that the president values loyalty almost -- probably, if not almost, above everything else. And I don't think there's anything improper with the head of any institution, including the head of the executive branch, engendering and creating and rewarding loyalty.

You know, in his private life, a lot of his key employees had been there for decades, 20 years, 30 years, 40 years or more. And, you know, you really can't buy that kind of loyalty. That loyalty is earned, and it's not earned by Christmas gifts.

So, you know, we have a president in office, similar to what President Kennedy did. He was a wealthy man also who decided not to take any compensation. And he decides, because he is a wealthy man, to give Christmas gifts to key people around him.

And I can't imagine there's anything wrong with that. More people should do it.

HUNT: Elliot Williams, is there potentially something wrong with it?

WILLIAMS: There is. And look, respectfully, I don't think John F. Kennedy is the perfect example of ethical behavior in the White House. So, you want to set that aside.

But yes, they are just --

(CROSSTALK)

BRENNAN: Financially, Elliot. Financially.

WILLIAMS: Yes, they are just Christmas gifts, but it just gets far more complicated when it's a government employee and it's a supervisor and let's just talk through. If it's just a present, if it's nothing but a present, then absolutely perfectly permissible to someone where there's no employment consequences whatsoever.

[16:40:05] When someone is receiving a gift of a third of their salary, it is just impossible to decouple that from any sort of relationship with their boss. Here, let's just use an obvious example. If a plumber comes to my house and does a $1,000 job, and then I say, oh, by the way, here's a $500 Christmas gift or a $300 Christmas gift, you can't say that that's not incentivizing future behavior in terms of how they work with me or rewarding them for the work they did before. That's the standard under the law.

And so, yeah, there's a potential ethical question here. You just have to look at the broader circumstance, which is that, yeah, he's a nice guy, he's got a lot of money, but that's --

HUNT: But is he a nice guy, a more generous guy? I mean, Mike, you know --

WILLIAMS: In this context, he's an individual giving gifts, but that's not the whole analysis under what government ethics law.

DUBKE: I'm sure it had something to do with the length of my tenure at the White House that I didn't receive --

HUNT: I was going to ask, actually, did this happen in the first administration?

DUBKE: Well, I think it probably also sets up more animosity between the folks that didn't get a Christmas gift.

WILLIAMS: But that's exactly the point, though. If certain employees are getting them, it just gets more complicated in terms of the ethics --

DUBKE: It does. But to Brennan's point earlier, which I think is spot on, I have no doubt, and the White House I think alluded to this as well, that in his previous roles as chief executive of his own companies, he would do this type of generosity around Christmas time to certain employees.

I think that's just part of what this was about and is for him and so, it's -- I'm not surprised by it I'm not I'm not shocked by it.

WILLIAMS: Yeah. But here's an example --

DUBKE: And I'm also thinking that the folks that are there are not -- are also in the White House in the West Wing right now --

WILLIAMS: Here's the thing, though.

DUBKE: -- that aren't surprised or shocked by it.

WILLIAMS: Here's why it gets different when you are the president United States or frankly any government supervisor. I have a long tradition of telling secrets to my wife. The law actually protects that. I can't share national security secrets with her because those are the rules that I agreed to when I entered the government. It is the same thing when you are talking about an employer in the

federal government, whether it's Donald Trump or anybody else, giving a personal gift of a third of an employee's salary, you can't with -- by any stretch of the imagination plausibly say that there isn't some -- but thing in the back of their mind that there's some consequence that's tied --

DUBKE: But the way that you brought it up to begin with was with a employer and an employee said we shouldn't have that type of relationship and the point I'm trying to make is across America, people give out Christmas bonuses.

WILLIAMS: They are --

(CROSSTALK)

DUBKE: It isn't necessarily tied to their employment. They -- probably some employees get bonuses, others do not.

WILLIAMS: And I think what's getting lost here.

DUBKE: You're putting a blanket over all of it.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no, no. What's getting lost here is that there are rules that govern how compensation is administered in the federal government. And when an employer in the federal government --

BRENNAN: Oh, Elliot, that's like if Boeing gives a gift or something.

WILLIAMS: It's not like if Boeing gives a gift.

(CROSSTALK)

BRENNAN: -- the people that don't give gifts. The scrooges --

WILLIAMS: Bill --

SIMMONS: Elliot is a Scrooge.

(CROSSTALK)

BRENNAN: How do you get criticized for giving a Christmas gift?

WILLIAMS: Bill, you and I both know there are ethical rules in the White House that govern, or across the whole executive branch, that govern how confidence they are.

BRENNAN: Elliot, we've got five U.S.C. 73, 53, and 18 U.S.C. 201, they don't apply here. That's --

(CROSSTALK)

HUNT: Let's break in --

SIMMONS: Can I break into?

HUNT: -- Bill, I admire you, but can we give the floor to Jamal, please? Go ahead.

SIMMONS: It's a legal seminar for a second.

I think that the average voter, though, is sitting there at home watching this, and this just looks like more elite kind of Washington, everybody's taking care of each other, scratching each other's backs. You know, you're going to give somebody $45,000 bonus while most people in the country are looking at paying let's say $4,500 more every year in gas and utilities and health care costs.

And now, they're saying well who's looking out for me while the rest of you guys are passing money back and forth amongst each other in Washington? That's really the political problem the president has right now.

HUNT: All right. Bill Brennan, thank you, sir. Appreciate you very much.

BRENNAN: Thank you, Kasie. Thank you, Elliot.

HUNT: All right. The rest of our panel here is going to stick around.

Ahead in THE ARENA, inside our new battleground polling as some battleground Republicans decide to lean into the party's first ever midterm convention and their Democratic opponents are taking notice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

INTERVIEWER: Running against Mike Rogers, he's going to be showing up to this Trump-a-palooza event. You know he'll be there arms around Donald Trump saying, look, how great everything is, golden age, things are amazing. What's your response to him showing up to that event?

EL-SAYED: I mean, I guess when daddy says, give me a hug, you give him a hug.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:49:08]

HUNT: All right. Welcome back.

CNN has two exclusive new polls out today in two key states showing just how tight the battle for the Senate is, less than 60 days out. from the election, and there is no clear leader in either contest. In Michigan, Democrat Abdul El-Sayed and Republican Mike Rogers are statistically tied with voters in that race, saying they're more focused on the candidates' positions on various issues.

Meanwhile, in Maine, Democrat Troy Jackson is facing off against Republican Senator Susan Collins, both also within the margin of error in our poll. This race is, of course, a referendum on Collins as the incumbent, and almost always midterm elections are referendum on the president who is in office, in this case, Donald Trump.

My panel is back.

Leigh Ann Caldwell, what do you make of these races here? Very different scenarios. Michigan, the seat currently held by a Democrat, potentially at risk because of the nomination of Abdul El-Sayed.

[16:50:05]

In Maine, you've got a political lion in that state who may finally succumb to a national wave. We're not sure yet. What are you hearing?

CALDWELL: Yeah. Well, Susan Collins is one of the best Republican candidates even though she's an incumbent this cycle. There's no one else that they would rather have in that -- in that race. So if anyone's going to win, it's going to be Susan Collins.

But what the reality is that August -- I'm interested that August is usually a really tough month for Republicans. They often haven't really started spending their money in earnest. You're seeing this week how the advertising is just really going out the door from Republicans because they know August is tough and they expect September to get better in polling for all Republicans up and down the Senate map.

And so, I actually think it's a decent sign in those two states if the two Republicans are within the margin of error at this point when Republicans are usually later to the game and Republican voters tend to turn in later, tune in later.

HUNT: Let's watch, there of course is, if you're living in one of these states, good luck turning on the television, okay, without watching ads. Let's watch, this was an ad, pro-Troy Jackson ad in Maine criticizing Collins. One of the things we saw in our poll is that a lot of voters who were not, who were going to vote for Jackson told our pollsters that it was really a vote against Susan Collins. So, let's watch this ad.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AD NARRATOR: Susan Collins was the deciding vote for Trump's Medicaid cuts, kicking tens of thousands of Mainers off health coverage so they could give billionaires a tax break.

Troy Jackson does what's best for me. Susan Collins does what's best for Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: And of course, Collins has spent so much time trying to create a specific kind of distance from the president because obviously this is a challenge for her. And this question is, is the wave going to be big enough this time to knock her off?

But I want to play again. And we played this on the show before. But she spoke with Jonathan Martin of "Politico" where she was talking. She was asked about Troy Jackson, who, of course, was nominated after Graham Platner stepped aside. And in this clip, you can see both the trouble that she knows that she is in and also her political sensibilities. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONATHAN MARTIN, POLITICO: Should the circumstances of his personal life and the mother of his children be relevant to this campaign? Is that fair game, do you think?

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): Well, I'm not going to bring up the fact that the mother of his two children is his second cousin. I don't know whether people know that or not.

MARTIN: I think you just mentioned it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Do people know that or not, Mike Dubke?

DUBKE: They do now. That's fantastic.

I mean, he -- Jonathan Martin opened up the door for her to walk through.

HUNT: She did, but I was surprised that she did, I will say.

DUBKE: Look, this is a tough race. This is probably one of the toughest races that she's had, and she's very well-positioned to weather this storm. I don't think, I think there are several hits on Senator Collins that the Democrats can throw at her, especially around her vote for Brett Kavanaugh.

I'm not sure that saying that she's doing what's best for Trump is really going to land in Maine. We'll see. She's been at loggerheads with the president for a long time, and I think most people know that.

It will be a referendum on him, as you stated at the lead-in to this. But she's well-positioned, and I'm sure her team likes the numbers right now and sees that steady improvement.

HUNT: Jamal, what are Democrats saying privately about whether they think they're going to win in Maine?

SIMMONS: Both in Maine and in Michigan, the thing that gets you concerned is that they're not at 50, right? So, any candidate who's not over 50 to me is not winning yet. It doesn't matter what the rest of the numbers look like. I've run races where we've come back and beat people who were at 48, and they were at 48 on election day when we won. So, it was fun.

So, here's the thing. I think the bigger question here is what is the Democratic Party offering that will give candidates something to run on where the Democratic brand is going to help them get over the finish line, not the Democratic brand being dance around and get past to get over the finish line.

That's the broader question for the party. And one of those questions that I hear a lot about is what happens with kids. And so many people have young people who are feeling so negative about their future in this country, they want somebody to address how they're going to get launched into their lives.

And the Democrats have a really wide, open lane to talk about how they want to do that with parents and families that I think they're not using yet.

HUNT: Elliot, you want a brief last word?

WILLIAMS: It's all about how much President Trump's name gets nationalized in this race, in these races, and is it about Maine and Michigan, or is it about Donald Trump?

[16:55:08]

DUBKE: And you bring that all back to Trump-a-palooza.

WILLIAMS: Trump-a-palooza, is it going to work?

HUNT: It's taking off today in Dallas.

Okay. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HUNT: All right, thanks to my panel. Really appreciate all of you being here.

Thanks to all of you at home for watching as well. Don't forget, you can now stream THE ARENA live. Catch up whenever you want to in the CNN app. Just scan the QR code below. You can also catch up by listening to our podcast.

Follow us on X and Instagram @thearenacnn.

But don't go anywhere. Jake Tepper is standing by for "THE LEAD".

Hi, Jake.