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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt

Trump Fires Zacharia After Just Five Days As Press Secretary; Democrats Outraised GOP In Key Senate Races While Burning Cash; "You Should Be Ashamed Of Yourself": Senate Debates Get Heated. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired October 16, 2026 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: You don't have to get to 88 miles per hour.

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Although this does do zero to 60 in a second, which is pretty cool. Oh wow, that is cool.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: Thanks, Pete.

KEILAR: We could keep going, but THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Breaking news, President Donald Trump has fired the White House press secretary.

Hi, everyone, I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's great to have you with us on this Friday.

We made it to Friday, but Katie Zacharia did not. As we come on the air, she is out of a job, advisors to the president say, after just five days working as White House press secretary, the shortest tenure in that role in history. Her fate all but inevitable after President Trump said this this afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Katie's been treated very badly by the media, very, very badly, very unfairly, I think. And I just spoke to her about it. I said, Katie, Is this for you? Because she's been treated very rough.

And she's a nice person, very nice person. I've watched her for years on television. But I said, is this for you, Katie? Because honestly, you don't need this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: You don't need this. Not something you want to hear from the boss, ever, let alone during your first week.

But Zacharia's one and only press briefing was a 15-minute performance that our sources in the White House described as brutal and awkward. It immediately set off speculation about whether she could remain in the job.

Add to that, a series of distracting headlines about whether she really is a lawyer or an attorney, and her position grew increasingly untenable. And Zacharia seemed to realize it, looking to the friendly waters of Fox News last night and this morning, clearly trying to save her job.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Katie, do you-- and it's a tough question.

KATIE ZACHARIA, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Do you think you still have the confidence of the president? I'm standing here, and I was able to travel with him through all of the midterm convention-- or excuse me, the midterm rallies. And I hope to be able to build the trust and confidence of everyone around me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So, a source close to the president tells CNN that Trump still likes and respects Zacharia, with another source saying that she and her family are scheduled to have dinner with the vice president, J.D. Vance, and his family tonight at the Naval Observatory, a sign that the administration still holds her in high regard.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: She's been treated, I would say, pretty nastily. And I said to Katie just two minutes ago, I said, Katie, you know, you don't have to do this if you don't want. I said, this is a lot tougher. I said, welcome to the world of Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Welcome to the world of Trump. It is an unforgiving one.

All right, let's get off the sidelines, head into THE ARENA. My panel is here. CNN political analyst, White House correspondent for "The New York Times", Zolan Kanno-Youngs; former policy director for Mitt Romney, Lanhee Chen; CNN political commentator, former DNC communications director, Xochitl Hinojosa; and former spokesperson for Governor Chris Christie, Colin Reed.

We're also joined by former Trump White House Deputy Press Secretary Sarah Matthews.

Thank you all so much for being here.

I want to start though by playing a moment from last night that really underscores -- it was a turning point for Katie Zacharia and our reporting here at CNN suggests But the president was watching and perhaps was not thrilled when she went on Sean Hannity, territory that you might assume would be relatively friendly for someone that the president liked who was trying to save their job. Maybe a platform where they could find some generosity, some easy questions.

That was not what she found last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: Am I hearing that you think the staff should have prepped you better?

KATIE ZACHARIA, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, I believe that in that time, I could have just given a brief intro and said I'm only here to introduce myself.

HANNITY: Why get into this long, drawn-out definition between -- the difference between a lawyer and an attorney? Why didn't you just say, I never practice law? Why only three questions in 14 minutes, and what might you do a little differently going forward? I can give you some unsolicited advice -- that's never going to be a friendly room to you.

ZACHARIA: I would love to build a relationship with all of those members of the press corps so there is a substantive component to us having an ability to interact.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So, Sarah Matthews, I mean, even the music there almost sounded like they were playing her off. Not sure if that's actually what was happening, but you and I talked about how that briefing went the day that it occurred. Clearly, it did not go over well.

Are you surprised that this happened the way that it did?

SARAH MATTHEWS, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: No, I'm not necessarily surprised. The only thing I guess I'm surprised about is the fact that here I thought this administration decided it was against broadcasting live executions, but they sent Sean Hannity in for the kill.

I mean, I don't think that Hannity would have given her that tough of an interview unless folks at the White House had been in coordination with him and said, okay, like put her on the spot.

[16:05:00]

Let's see if she can handle and provide clear answers for some of these issues, like the questions surrounding her legal credentials, like why she wasn't prepared for her first briefing. And she stumbled her way through that interview and again on "Fox and Friends" in the morning.

So, if you can't handle two Fox News interviews, there's just no way that she could command the briefing room. And I feel like she lost all confidence from folks within the White House who had knives out for her, I think the moment she walked in, because it seems like Trump unilaterally picked her as a press secretary without really consulting anyone. And I think then when Trump saw that she couldn't even handle an

interview from Sean Hannity, there was just no way she was going to survive in this role.

HUNT: Yeah, Zolan Kanno-Youngs, what's your reporting around this? Because, again, the president has been relatively generous towards her in his public words, right? the way that he's sort of presented that was like, well, you know, Katie, maybe you should reconsider. But he's the one that put her in the job in the first place, and she said yes.

ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right, right, right. Yeah, I find that often, you know, the reporting shows that the president isn't always bothered by the actual conduct of the administration official, but more so the negative headlines that it generates and sort of the news cycle that it generates and whether or not that distracts, provides a distraction at the time. This did that, right? And there were waves to it.

You had the press briefing, but then also my colleague Sean McCreesh asked the question of, okay, well, when did you pass the bar in that initial answer, referring to her time in China. But then also --

HUNT: This is when she's standing behind the president of the United States, and the president turns to her and says, well, answer the question.

KANNO-YOUNGS: Right, and you kind of see him almost look as if he seemed a little bit struck by that answer. And then you have the follow-up call that she made as well to reporters to try and clear it up. There were just waves to this news cycle and you clearly saw that he was not pleased with the cycle that it generated.

HUNT: Lanhee?

LANHEE CHEN, FELLOW AT THE HOOVER INSTITUTION AT STANFORD UNIVERSITY: I think there are two things. One is, there is a level of scrutiny that comes from being a senior official at the White House that everyone should expect they're going to be placed under. It was clear that she probably was not expecting that or wasn't ready for it.

The other thing is, being White House press secretary, as it turns out, is a pretty hard job, that there's a lot of responsibility There's a lot of buildup. If you look at people who've occupied that, including Karoline Leavitt, they've had experience, whether it's on a campaign, whether it's in an administration, they understand this is a job that is very difficult, that's going to require a significant amount of personal sacrifice, and it's tough to just go into that cold, and essentially that's what was asked of Ms. Zacharia.

HUNT: I mean, Colin, you've done this at a high level. You've spoken on behalf. I realize that, but on behalf of politicians. Were you surprised? I mean, they just threw her in there.

I mean, she's hired on Friday. Columbus Day, the president apparently tells her he wants her to go out there, and she does the next day. COLIN REED, FORMER SPOKESPERSON FOR GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE: It was pretty clear from anybody who watched the briefing on Tuesday that she was not long for this world politically and that it was a matter of when, not if, her job was going to come to an end. I don't know that anyone thought it would happen this soon, but an unsustainable situation will not be sustained. It's a good rule in politics.

What I'll say is this, when -- first of all, as someone who's got a young kid myself, I'm glad it ended quickly, so she hopefully didn't move her family across the country. We've all made sacrifices for our family. It's tough. My old boss Chris used to say politics ain't beanbag, and we're learning that now.

But the one thing you saw throughout all of her appearances is she didn't allow -- she didn't get out of that tailspin to make it about the president, his administration, his accomplishments, and what they're doing. It was all about her.

And the job is to carry the message from that White House to the American people, not let it become a referendum on you as a person.

HUNT: That's a very smart point.

XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, she also wasn't able to clean it up, right? She had a bad briefing. She was given two opportunities on a very, very, you know, friendly network to the president that he trusts that most Cabinet officials are really only allowed to do Fox News. And this is similar to somewhat to, like, Pam Bondi, when she created all of the terrible headlines on the Epstein files, and she couldn't necessarily clean it up.

So he pushed her aside he put in Todd Blanche and now Todd Blanche not only does Fox News but he goes on "Meet the Press" and he goes on other networks as well, because the president trusts him.

He likes that. He likes that he can perform. He cleans up the president's mess. He doesn't create bad headlines.

Those are the things that Trump wants. He wants loyalty. He wants competence but he also wants someone who can clean up the mess and she wasn't able to do that over the last day.

KANNO-YOUNGS: And what a stark difference even if you just look at this week in its entirety decisions compared to year one of Trump two. Year one of Trump two, we often heard the difference between the first term and the second term is stability, right?

But you've got this with the press secretary. You've got Kimberly Guilfoyle as well. The reports on Paolo Zampolli as well getting into a dispute with Chris Landau. A lot of infighting this week, more so than we saw in the first term.

And we're just two weeks out from the midterm elections. Hello. None of these things should be at the top of the.

A lot of infighting this week, more so than we saw in the first half. HUNT: And we're just two weeks out from the midterm elections. Hello. None of these things should be at the top of the priority. I do think it's worth noting Mr. Anthony Scaramucci, who of course lasted 11 days, I believe, reacted this way.

[16:10:05]

He said, "Records are made to be broken. But I take no pleasure in other people's pain." She is apparently about half of a Scaramucci now, I guess.

All right, Sarah Matthews, thank you for joining us. Really appreciate you as always.

Coming up next here in THE ARENA, what a new election forecast from "The Cook Political Report" says about Democrats' chances of flipping the House.

But first, we're live with one Democrat who's been blanketing the '26 campaign trail without even being on the ballot, at least not this year.

Former Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg is here in THE ARENA.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People are clamoring for fresh energy, and there's a lot of candidates -- Pete Buttigieg, Mark Kelly, Shapiro, Wes Moore. They're moderates, moderate Democrats, and I think they could sweep.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And they're men.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're men.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And they're men.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:15:15]

HUNT: All right. Welcome back.

President Trump just landed in Georgia, where he will rally for the Senate candidate there, Mike Collins, who remains locked in a tight race against Democratic incumbent Senator Jon Ossoff.

That, as new third-quarter fundraising numbers reveal, Democrats are significantly outraising their Republican opponents in the 10 Senate races that CNN has rated as most likely to flip. But they are also burning through the cash a lot more quickly.

In Battleground Michigan, Democratic Senate candidate Abdul El Sayed now getting a significant last-minute boost from fellow progressives Senator Bernie Sanders and Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Sanders transferring a quarter million dollars to the El-Sayed campaign this past month, while Ocasio-Cortez is sending over a million of her own campaign money.

Joining me now in THE ARENA, a former Democratic presidential candidate who in the past year has been all over the country campaigning alongside his party's candidates, former Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg.

Mr. Secretary, thank you so much for joining us. It's great to have you here in THE ARENA.

So, a number of potential 2028 hopefuls, leaders in the Democratic Party, have offered to help candidates across the map. Kamala Harris is one of them, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez another. But both of them have found places in America where Democrats have said, I'd rather you didn't come in here and campaign for me.

Has that ever happened to you? Are you able to go anywhere?

PETE BUTTIGIEG, FORMER TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: Well, look, when you are campaigning for others, you want to make sure that you're helping them and doing what makes sense for them. So, you know, we only go to places where we've been asked or invited, and I trust the instincts of any candidate on whether my coming along and helping to make the case is going to help or not.

What I'll say is really extraordinary right now is the places where we are competitive. Part of why I've found myself traveling so much, I think I've been to states and counting since leaving the Cabinet, many of them more than once, is that we're competing in places where even six months ago nobody would have thought Democrats would have a shot.

And you see that in the Republican strategy as well. The idea that Republicans are having to divert resources to try to shore up incumbents in places like Kansas, to try to hold onto power in places like South Carolina, demonstrates that we really are competitive there. And it's for a very clear set of reasons, which is Americans are fed up with the prices that they are paying, with the Iran war, the broken promises under the congressional GOP. It's just created this amazing opportunity in so many different parts of the country, including the so-called red states.

HUNT: So, when you speak about red states and you dig in there, one question that Republicans are trying to raise in voters' minds is about how far left Democrats would be. They use Democratic Socialists of America in particular to try to generate fear of that. And in a red state, that perhaps is more salient than in blue America.

The ladies of "The View" called you a moderate Democrat. Is that the right label? Are you a moderate Democrat?

BUTTIGIEG: I mean, I try not to lean too much into one label or another, but what I'll say is that the positions that the majority of Americans believe in I think are moderate by definition, even though Washington Republicans are specifically against them. I think about something like the idea that we should have health care for every American, the idea that the government should be able to negotiate prescription drug prices for Medicare, the idea that taxes on the wealthiest and the biggest corporations are too low and costs for regular Americans are too high.

You know, so many issues where most Americans agree on what we ought to do, and yet by the way, often including most Republicans, if you just ask people, and yet Washington Republicans say no on issue after issue, from a raise in the minimum wage to universal background checks for gun safety.

Most Republicans, not to mention most Americans think we ought to do this, just not most elected Republicans. And I think that distance between the mainstream of the American public and today's Republican Party helps to explain why Democrats are competing in places that used to be considered safely Republican territory.

HUNT: When you talk about the mainstream, back this summer, CBS and YouGov did a poll looking at views that Democrats have about capitalism, of course, as opposed to socialism. And they found that 50 percent of Democrats had a very or somewhat negative opinion about capitalism.

So, can I ask you, do you believe in capitalism? And why do so many Democrats not?

BUTTIGIEG: Yeah, of course I believe in that as our economic system, but I also believe our economic system isn't working well. So, I think when you see a number like that, it's a lot like, you know, if you ask people what they think of the American government, most people will have a negative view.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't have one. It means we should make sure that it works better, and the same is true about capitalism. Look, a market economy is definitely better than any other system that's been tried, but the way it's set up right now in America isn't working for most people. The social mobility, the economic mobility once known as the American dream, the idea that you're going to finish off economically better off than your parents did.

If you were born the year my mother was born, that was a 90 percent chance that was going to happen. If you were born the year I was born, that's 50/50, and there's a lot of evidence that for a younger generation, you might be less than 50/50 in terms of your chances of coming out ahead.

So that is obviously not a form of capitalism that is working for the American people. Most people, again, not just most Democrats, most Americans are fed up, and it doesn't have to be this way. If we had a fairer tax code, if we had healthcare for everybody, if we had higher wages, if we had these common sense policies, then we would be able to make the American way of life, including capitalism in America, actually work for people.

HUNT: Do you think there's any world in which the country would elect a socialist as president in the United States?

BUTTIGIEG: Again, that is a label that I find has less meaning every time it gets thrown around. I remember when they --

HUNT: Someone who called themselves a socialist.

BUTTIGIEG: I'd be surprised, yeah, if somebody like that did well nationally. But look, I mean, they called Bill Clinton a communist or a socialist before he ushered in one of the greatest periods of economic growth in American history. So, you know, as reliable as clockwork, this is what Republicans will say about literally any Democrat any time they're running for office.

The reality, I think, lies in the positions that we're advocating for. And again, there's a two-to-one majority for the things we're calling for. Americans are hungry for leaders who are going to do something about the tariffs, reverse the Republican cuts to health care, do something about the Republican giveaways to the wealthiest people in the country. The things that Republicans have done are outside of the mainstream, not just for Democrats, but for America.

HUNT: Let's talk a little bit about some of these individual races on the Senate side that are, of course, going to decide whether or not Democrats gain control. And I know you've been campaigning in a number of these states. Your adopted home state, or I guess your home state by marriage is Michigan, actually my home state as well. And of course, Abdul El-Sayed won the primary there and has been trying to unite Democrats in the state. And a big part of that mission for him has been Black Democrats in Detroit, which is the historic, you know, voting base of the Democratic Party in the state or an absolutely critical piece of it.

Considering what you know about the state, what you've done with him, how would you assess the job that he is doing of convincing Black voters in Michigan that they can trust him?

BUTTIGIEG: Well, I think he's working hard to lean into the things that unify the Democratic coalition and unify a majority of Michiganders. And again, I point to the main things that people agree on. You know, his biggest two themes of the campaign, at least the way it looks to me, are to make sure everybody gets healthcare and to get big money out of politics.

That is a message that resonates with Black voters in Detroit. That is a message that resonates up in rural northern Michigan, where I live. and everywhere in between. And I think that's a message more broadly that ties into what most Americans want to see.

HUNT: Have you been doing some of your own work to build ties to Black leaders in Detroit as you look to the future?

BUTTIGIEG: Yeah, as an active Democrat, I'm making sure that I spend time with the pillars of our coalition, as well as trying to reach out beyond people who traditionally vote Democratic, and so have spent time with faith leaders, with Black community leaders, whether in Detroit or around the country. Especially because, you know, you've got a lot of people in the Democratic coalition who have sometimes in the past felt taken for granted or felt like the results have not matched the promises.

I think it's especially important to be listening to voters who feel that way. We've been having conversations everywhere from big cities to more rural areas. I had really interesting conversations in Cleveland and in Birmingham, in South Carolina recently about just these issues and making sure that we do right by a coalition that has helped power some of the best and most important social change and political change in American history.

HUNT: Let's talk about Georgia for a second as well, because, of course, Jon Ossoff there honestly, that race probably we all expected it to be tighter than it is when we first were looking at this map. He is in some ways, depending on if you believe the polling, running away with it. And it, of course, has generated quite a bit of chatter about his future.

He was asked on the debate stage if he was going to commit to serving his six-year term. He claimed that he was that he was not interested in running for president. It's worth noting Barack Obama also said that 13 months before he announced he was running for president.

So, I guess my question for you is, do you believe Jon Ossoff? Do you see him as potentially somebody that's going to be on a debate stage, maybe with you, in 2028?

BUTTIGIEG: Well, what I know is Jon Ossoff is one of the most dynamic members of the Senate, and he's one of the most extraordinary messengers in our party. What he's got on his hands right now, of course, is a tightly contested Senate race.

[16:25:03]

It's looking good for him, but he's leaving nothing to chance. I am supporting him, of course.

And I enjoyed working with him when I was secretary of transportation, working on things like delivering resources to the rural community of Midland, where he invited me to come and see how we could improve the way that the roads and the railroads interacted over there.

He's somebody who I think has also done a great job connecting the dots between the economic results that are so frustrating, why health care is as expensive as it is, why gas and diesel are expensive as they are, and the corruption that we see going on, not just in the Trump White House, but that's really permeating the congressional GOP.

And frankly, politically speaking, I think it hasn't hurt Jon Ossoff's chances that he is running against just an epically unqualified candidate. The extremism of Mike Collins, from his ties to white supremacists to his extreme no exceptions position on abortion, really have put him out of touch with voters even in a comparatively conservative state like Georgia.

HUNT: When you look at the future for the Democratic party, and you consider that the midterm elections -- I mean, increasingly it is pointing to a potentially blue wave. Are you concerned that enormous gains now could paper over or lead Democratic leaders to underestimate the work they need to do to actually convince voters to trust them?

BUTTIGIEG: Yeah, I've been thinking a lot about this and about what comes next. But first, let's be clear. Even though the polls are looking good and the coverage is in our favor, we've got to leave nothing to chance. And whether, even in my own travels, we'll be with Roy Cooper this weekend.

The pundits say he's got this walking away. He knows this is a tight race and so do we. So, we're making sure in races like that, we're doing our homework as well as places like Mississippi. That's a state we never thought we'd be competitive a year ago, where I'm looking forward to campaigning with Scott Colom for U.S. Senate.

So, we've got to make sure we don't get ahead of ourselves, don't believe the poll numbers until we've got the results. But I will say, if all goes well for Democrats in November, we're going to have our work cut out for us. And the most important thing, in my view, is to immediately get to work on a rapid-fire sequence of simple, clear pieces of legislation that deliver on some of those things I was mentioning that most Americans are craving and want. Making sure that Medicare can negotiate on prescription drugs, raising the minimum wage, reversing these cuts to support for health care so that more people can afford their health insurance, political reform, like finally putting an end to partisan gerrymandering in this country.

These are all things Democrats could do coming out of the gate with a majority in the House and in the Senate, challenge the president to sign these extremely popular and important policies and take it from there.

HUNT: Do you think there's a risk to potentially taking on the president via investigation, subpoena, or potentially impeachment?

BUTTIGIEG: Look, people want to know what we're for and who we're for, even more than who we're standing up against. And so again, I think the priority is to have policies that put money in people's pocket at a time like this where they're hurting from the gas and diesel prices because of Trump's war, healthcare, and beyond.

Having said that, of course, we've got to have standards in this country. We've got to have accountability in this country. That should never and must never displace the fundamental work of making everyday life better and more affordable. But, you know, part of why life is unaffordable probably has to do with some of the corruption that people have been getting away with in Washington.

We're going to need to shine a light on that and to make sure, above all, that victims of that corruption and victims of some of the abuses that have in this administration had their day.

HUNT: As we look ahead to 2028, I mean, one of the lessons that some Democrats took away from Trump winning a second term even after January 6th and all of that was that it was too risky for the party to nominate someone who wasn't the way this "Axios" headline put it earlier this year that the '28 strategy should be a straight, white, Christian man. When we sit here today, do you think that that's accurate?

BUTTIGIEG: I think often Democrats have got themselves wrapped around the axle trying to think through what somebody else might think in an election. I know how I'm going to vote for president. It's going to be based on the person who would do the best job as president. I think that's what most Americans do, and I think that's true for the offices that are actually on the ballot right now, which is, of course, not that one. But the races for governor, for House, for Senate, for legislature, for county office, for that matter, across the country.

We need to make sure that the people who will do the best job get the most votes. And that's what I'm trying to do with my campaign travel everywhere I go.

HUNT: So, one of those races is, of course, in Texas, where James Talarico, the Democrat, is running against Ken Paxton. Paxton, of course, a deeply flawed candidate for reasons I don't have to tell you.

[16:30:01]

But, of course, the Republican strategy against Talarico has been really rooted in culture. And the president has nicknamed him James Talafreako. And I want to play for you something that the vice president, J.D. Vance, said, insinuated, joked, about James Talarico earlier in the week.

Let's watch that. And I'll talk to you about it on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now, before we get started, I love you too, sir, in a totally platonic way, to be clear. I'm the vice president, not James Talarico. But I got to --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: What's the vice president doing there, sir?

BUTTIGIEG: Losing. That's what he's doing there.

Look, he knows that he's going to lose on the issues, and so they're trying to make it anything else all the way down to name-calling, right? It's not like J.D. Vance can stand there and defend the Iran war, where most Americans know that's why we're paying historically high diesel prices, gas prices for a war that never should have happened and that the president promised not to get us into. JD Vance knows that he can't defend the Republican cuts to healthcare, the Republican cuts to food, with food banks now seeing more and more pressure.

And remember, the worst of the Medicaid and food cuts are just going into effect now going into next year. So, they know that in terms of the results and in terms of the policies, they are going to lose.

You add to that the fact that you've got somebody like Ken Paxton, who I want to be clear, when I say that he is corrupt and flawed, that's not a partisan statement. He was impeached by his own party in Texas. That's how bad he is.

And James Talarico is going to make a great U.S. senator.

So, you'll continue to see this kind of nonsense. Anything should try to get people thinking about anything but their lives and how their lives would be better if we had a change in policy.

HUNT: And finally, sir, before I let you go, I mean, how do you think about where the Democrats should be with these culture war issues because there were some incredibly effective ads against Kamala Harris in 2024 in terms of saying, you know, she's for they/them and we're for you.

Do you think that Democrats can win by simply not engaging or do you have to fight back?

BUTTIGIEG: Well, I think we need to listen. We need to meet people where we are. We need to explain and defend our values.

And I think in doing all of that, we need, above all, to stay anchored in the issues that people care about and that are affecting them the most.

And right now, and look, every issue matters to at least some Americans. There are some issues that are extremely urgent for all Americans, and the one I hear everywhere I go. whether it's New Jersey where I'm doing a rally tonight for Rebecca Bennett running for House, or Mississippi where I'll be later on involved in the campaign for Senate there, is that life in America has become unaffordable, not in spite of Republican policies, but because of them.

HUNT: All right, Pete Buttigieg, former transportation secretary, among other things. Thank you so much for spending some time with us in THE ARENA, sir. I hope you come back.

BUTTIGIEG: Same here. Great being with you. Thanks for having me.

HUNT: All right. Of course.

Coming up next here in THE ARENA, one lawmaker who changed parties this year is set to make another big announcement as he fights for reelection. He's going to do it right here in THE ARENA. Republican- turned independent Congressman Kevin Kiley joins us live.

But first, President Trump back on the campaign trail today in the only state that he won in 2024 that also has a sitting Democratic senator on the ballot this year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): Most of the polling is garbage. The polls that I've seen that I consider credible show a very tight race. They show a lot of the undecideds to be Republicans. The Republicans will either come home or not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[16:38:07]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator Collins --

MODERATOR: I'm sorry, somebody's interrupting. We'll have our security deal with that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A.I. data centers are destroying our climate. They are poisoning our water.

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): So this is obviously one of Troy's supporters.

TROY JACKSON (D), MAINE SENATE CANDIDATE: Oh, shut up. I didn't -- I don't even know that kid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: The final Maine Senate debate between Senator Susan Collins and Troy Jackson provided more viral moments. Just a couple of weeks of campaigning left every second of airtime, crucial for candidates to try to make their case.

In the Alaska Senate debate, the incumbent Senator Dan Sullivan tried to get his viral moment, accusing Democrat Mary Peltola of getting the questions in advance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DAN SULLIVAN (R-AK): Can I ask a moderator question? We weren't supposed to get these questions beforehand, were we?

MODERATOR: No, sir.

MODERATOR: Neither one of you got questions before.

SULLIVAN: Okay, I'm just watching my opponent --

MODERATOR: No, that is absolutely not.

MARY PELTOLA (D), ALASKA SENATE CANDIDATE: Just prepared.

SULLIVAN: Questions seem to be answered.

PELTOLA: Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HUNT: Just prepared, she says.

All right, my panel's back.

Zolan, when you look at the Maine Senate race, there have been a number of debates, right? I think in many ways it's given Susan Collins an opportunity to remind voters there of why she's been their senator for so long. And again, all of these moments are often about getting a clip for the screen, right? But what do you see when you look across this landscape in terms of how these moments are going to play with voters?

KANNO-YOUNGS: Right, I mean, a lot of the attention's going to be on that moment. And by the way, an issue that is resonating with A.I. data centers and sort of the debate around that.

But it seemed like Susan Collins in this moment really went out and tried to establish -- tried to remind voters of the independent streak that she's tried to proclaim throughout her career. And that's interesting, right, because it also speaks to the frustration currently with incumbency.

[16:40:03]

It speaks to the frustration with Donald Trump, speaks to the frustration with the economy, including among Republican voters here.

Meanwhile, you had Troy Jackson really trying to put her on the defensive, right, and trying to attach her also to President Trump by reminding the public of some of the votes that she's casted, including members of his own cabinet, right? It's hard to establish yourself as an independent still in this day and age when you still had votes that supported this current cabinet that's in place.

HUNT: Colin, I mean, Susan Collins has outrun the national environment before. Can she do it again?

REED: She can. She will. And that debate's going to be a big reason why.

If you didn't miss it last night, people of Maine, you're going to see it a million times over between now and election day when Troy Jackson told Susan Collins to shut up on stage.

And I've been talking to people in town this today. They are giddy at that moment. It's something you don't do.

Troy Jackson, when he wasn't burping into the microphone or hardly able to sit up, he just totally disqualified himself. So, when people say debates don't matter, remember this, because Susan Collins will outrun the ticket once again.

HUNT: Lanhee, do you agree?

CHEN: Yeah, look, I mean, Susan Collins is precise -- I didn't hear the burping. HUNT: I missed the burping as well.

CHEN: Gross, gross if so, gross if so.

But what I will say is, I think Senator Collins has one pathway to winning this race, and that is precisely the pathway she's taking. I think she's executing very well. I think it's going to be very difficult for us to tell what's actually going on in Maine because it's a small state, it's tough to survey, but I think that she is honed in on exactly the right message, and it is the one that I think ultimately voters there, they like independence, and I think she has demonstrated that time and again.

So, I actually agree with Collins. I think she's in good shape.

HINOJOSA: Yeah, I think that Democrats, this was supposed to be our biggest pickup opportunity. This was supposed to be an easier one. We fumbled it with the candidates at the very beginning, obviously.

And we -- it is on the Democratic Party to the fact that they stood with Graham Plattner as long as they did. This could have been taken care of pretty early on in the primary if Democrats would have united and said, wait a minute, your past, what you have said previously, your Nazi tattoo, all of these things disqualify you, someone with a Nazi tattoo is definitely going to lead to some other problem, something else coming out later on. Democrats didn't realize that, and now we are where we are where this thing is tied.

Troy Jackson needs to essentially point out that during the toughest moments where she could have stood up to Trump, she didn't. And she is not a reliable, independent voice because when it mattered the most, she was not there for Mainers. And if he can do that and be successful, he will win.

But I would say --

HUNT: It looks like he's not doing that.

HINOJOSA: But I think that he can do that a little bit more aggressively. I do think that he's in a terrible situation in the sense that he should not -- this race should not be tied, and it's because Democrats fumbled this from the beginning.

HUNT: Yeah. Colin, when you look across the map, where else will the national environment do you think on election night not necessarily line up with the outcome of the race?

REED: It's a great point because most of these battleground states run through really red parts of America, and the fact that they're so close right now speaks to the deteriorating conditions around the Republican Party writ large.

Look at a place like Michigan, though. You just had Secretary Buttigieg on. There were two things that stuck out to me, and that is a blue state, went red for Trump twice, but let's be really clear, it's a blue state. It shouldn't be as close as it is in these conditions. It is for two reasons, in my view, which is, one, Abdul al-Sayed's deficiencies as a candidate, and two, the fact that Mike Rogers was running a strong campaign.

So that's one where I really think that you might see someone outperform the ticket in a place they have no business doing it in November.

HUNT: Interesting.

All right. Ahead here in THE ARENA, what are a former West Virginia senator and a California congressman doing hanging out together? We're going to ask them, Joe Manchin and Kevin Kiley, join us next in THE ARENA.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:48:12]

HUNT: All right. Welcome back.

With just some 18 days until the midterm election, we are spending a lot of time right here on this program talking about Republicans versus Democrats, red versus blue. But it is worth noting that there are also a handful of independents on the ballot this cycle who may have a shot at winning.

Joining me now in THE ARENA is one of them, independent congressman from California Kevin Kiley. And he is joined by former independent senator from West Virginia Joe Manchin.

It's great to see both of you. Thank you so much for being back in THE ARENA. You've both been here before.

Senator Manchin, I know you wanted to join us because you have an announcement to make. Please tell us.

JOE MANCHIN (I), FORMER WEST VIRGINIA SENATOR: I totally, absolutely, 1,000 percent endorse Kevin Kiley. And the reason I'm endorsing Kevin, I'm inspired by his independence. He's basically been in Washington. He sees the toxic atmosphere we have.

They weaponize both sides. We're either on one side or the other. Well, you know what? Kevin's in the middle. He's basically for the American. And as I said, there's only one side, the American side.

And right now, you have to pick a side and fight with the other side. Kevin's not willing to do that. He could have taken a lot of different paths if he wanted to stay in Congress. Running as an independent, showing true independence, and being inspired by that. Say, I'm going there, and I'll work with whoever has the best idea for the 6th Congressional District of California and our dear country.

Right now, we have so few independent-minded people that are willing to go the extra mile to just show that, you don't own me. The only people that own Kevin is the people that send him there from his 6th district. And basically, he keeps his commitment to the Constitution to defend and protect. That is it.

And if the Democrats have a better idea, that's who he would work with. If the Republicans, we don't see that. And there's 47 percent of us, the largest voting bloc in America, are independent-minded people like myself, and you and all the people watching today.

[16:50:08]

There's more of us than them, but guess what? There's no pathway the way the system is. The two parties have total control. Never intended to be that way. Kevin going there as a truly independent, a true independent and saying, listen, I'm going to fight for that, but also open up the eyes of the country.

How come independents can't participate? How come in many states they can't even vote in a primary? That's got to change.

And I would just say, if you're ever going to invest any of your hard- earned money, invest it to electkevinkiley.com. That's the best -- he'll give you the best return on your investment.

HUNT: Well, kind words from the senator for you, Congressman, but of course, the reality is that it's a tough road for you in your district, in no small part because of the way it was redrawn and because of your independent label, can independents win in this country?

REP. KEVIN KILEY (I-CA): Absolutely. And, you know, I could not be more honored by the senator's endorsement. I mean, he's someone who showed every day when he was in the Senate exactly how being independent allows you to be more effective and to deliver for your constituents and to deliver for the country. And so that's really the example that I'm seeking to follow.

And I'll tell you in my district, I'm hearing from people every day as we're talking to voters just how refreshing they think it is to say, oh, we can just put partisanship aside and talk about the issues. And I hear this from people who are staunch Republicans. I hear from people who are independents. I hear from people who are staunch Democrats.

They think it's so refreshing that we can kind of beyond partisanship and focus on the issues that really matter. And the polling shows that this race is neck and neck. There's a public poll showing that it's tied. If we win this, it'd be only the second time in, I believe, 70 years an independent has been elected to the House of Representatives.

So, it is a chance to make history, but it's also a chance to set a precedent to show that it could be done and to inspire others to take the same path. And if we make that happen, then it can fundamentally change the way Congress operates for the better.

HUNT: Congressman, who do you think deserves to have the gavel here? You've seen Mike Johnson and Republicans have two years of control under the Republican president, Donald Trump. Do you think they deserve to continue to have it, or would the American people benefit from a change?

KILEY: Well, no one's made the case to me yet. I'm going to be looking at exactly what any candidate for that office has to offer. And as a threshold issue, making sure that they are going to protect independent representation and allow for independents to participate in the full range of activities in the House.

HUNT: Senator Manchin, I know you of course have spent so much time building relationships with Democrats, with Republicans. Who's most receptive right now, do you think, to including all of those independent Americans that you were talking about in their vision for governing? Is it the Democratic Party or the Republican Party right now?

MANCHIN: Well, it's a party that's basically going to tackle the high cost of living today. People in West Virginia, people in California, and anybody in between are having a hard time making it. I'm paying $6.56 a gallon for diesel fuel. And everything that we receive through the supply chain is getting the highest delivery cost of all because it's planes, trains, and trucks and everything in between.

And whoever is able to do that, now if they go in there with a retribution and a vengeance that we're going to blame the other side.

One thing about Kevin Kiley and the independents in America, they're not blaming either side. They're going there to fix things. And the problem of mine is if you can't reduce the cost of living today in America, if you're not laser focused on that, then you're going for the wrong reason.

Fix the problems. Don't blame how we got there, just go fix it. Get rid of these crazy tariffs. Get rid of a fight with Canada. Get rid of all of the stuff that's going on that's just making all of our lives more costly and more miserable. And people are sick and tired of it. And they do not believe, Kasie, that the Democrat or Republican Party will fix it.

If an independent such as Kevin Kiley is there and he's able to bring people together with better ideas, you and I both know, we've been to our long-time case, that there's good people that are being pulled to the right and left because there's nobody to protect them in the middle. That's what I'm trying to do, is build an organization that's going to give them protection.

We're going to get Kevin elected. After Kevin's elected, we've got to support him when he gets to Washington, so basically they don't just try to eat him up, and he's tough enough to take it, and basically show the country, hey, independents is the way to go.

You can't win without us. You need us in the general election. You just don't want us in the primary and you don't want anybody to run as an independent.

Well, guess what? Electkevinkiley.com and you're going to get somebody who's going to fight for you when he gets there.

[16:55:02]

That's why I'm for him.

HUNT: Congressman, very briefly, would you consider caucusing with Democrats?

KILEY: I'm not going to caucus with either side. I think that we need to have independents who are given the full right to participate in all activities of the House, including serving on committees without conferencing with one side or the other.

HUNT: All right, fair enough. Congressman Kevin Kiley, former Senator Joe Manchin, thank you both. Always great to have you. Hope you'll come back.

KILEY: I'll be back.

HUNT: All right. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HUNT: All right. Thanks very much, my panel. Really appreciate it.

Thanks to all of you at home for watching as well. I really appreciate it. And I would love to have you spend more of your weekend with us.

You can watch more of THE ARENA tomorrow. THE ARENA SATURDAY airs at noon Eastern right here on CNN. I'd love to have you join us.

Don't go anywhere. "THE LEAD", anchored by Boris Sanchez, starts right now.