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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
New CNN Poll Of Polls: Trump Approval Rating at 34 Percent; El- Sayed Blasts Assumptions Behind Muslim Brotherhood Question; Judge Tees Off On Trump DOJ Over Plans For D.C. Golf Course. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired October 19, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:00]
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Appreciate you being there and moral support.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: I'm here to support you morally in your conversations.
SANCHEZ: THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now.
(MUSIC)
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's great to have you with us on this Monday.
Right now, the midterm campaign entering the final stretch as early voting begins in eight more states, including the critical battleground, yes, of Texas. Already, more than nine million ballots have been cast across the country. As that happens, President Donald Trump is on his way to Kansas as he kicks off another tour of deep red states' home turf, where his party has been forced to play defense.
But is he helping or hurting his party's candidates?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATE: I'm the one that got him there. I'm the one that's winning. I'm the one that's doing the rallies, that's taking people into a winning position. As an example, we're up in Texas. We weren't. we're up in Alaska. We weren't.
We're up -- everybody, every place that I've gone to, we're up. My rallies are having a huge impact and a positive impact on the Republican Party.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: The latest CNN poll of polls has President Trump's approval rating at just 34 percent, with basically two thirds of Americans saying they're unhappy with how he's handled his job.
And, there seems to be a lot of ground that his party needs to make up on the generic congressional ballot. Democrats are averaging a nine- point advantage over Republicans. But of course, many of the races that are going to make the difference are much, much closer.
And that brings us back to Texas. Polls there show an extremely close race. No clear leader, but of course, the Lone Star State is central to Democratic hopes of retaking the senate and the race there is already one of the most expensive and one of the ugliest in American history.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEN PAXTON (R), TEXAS SENATE CANDIDATE: I'm telling you, this guy is really obsessed with transitions. He wants to transition our kids. He wants to transition Texas off of oil and gas.
JAMES TALARICO (D), TEXAS SENATE CANDIDATE: They are scared. They are terrified. They see what we see that we're about to win this election.
(CHEERING)
PAXTON: How about we transition him and his crazy ideas right out of Texas?
(CHEERING)
TALARICO: Ken Paxton is everything that's wrong with this broken, corrupt system. He doesn't serve us. He serves himself.
PAXTON: While Talarico fights for his radical agenda, we fight for faith, family and freedom.
(CHEERING)
TALARICO: This is the last play of the last drive. This is the moment we leave it all on the field, because as every Texan knows -- clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right, let's get off the sidelines and into THE ARENA.
My panel is here. CNN chief political analyst, former senior adviser to President Obama, David Axelrod; Capitol Hill correspondent for Puck News, Marianna Sotomayor, Democratic strategist and former Biden White House deputy press secretary, Chris Meagher; and CNN political commentator and Republican strategist Brad Todd.
We're also joined by CNN political commentator S.E. Cupp.
Welcome to all of you. Thank you all for being here.
David Axelrod, yes. let's take a look at what the presidents approval rating has looked at over time since February of 2025, at the beginning of his first term in office, because it's a pretty stark visual, right? And it goes in one direction and is now at its lowest ever.
How optimistic are you that Democrats in particular, are going to be able to win the senate? Because this may be, of course, the national environment, but each one of these campaigns has its own unique set of dynamics.
DAVID AXELROD, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: It's interesting, you ask me, how optimistic am I about them winning the Senate. We wouldn't even -- that wouldn't even have been a question.
HUNT: Yes, I'm quite aware.
AXELROD: I mean, so you're just skipping right over the house.
HUNT: Well, we could put the graphic back up on the screen. That's probably going to explain it, but yes.
AXELROD: Yes, yes. So --
HUNT: I am. You're right.
AXELROD: Look, the reason that these Senate races are, are so competitive is the fact that midterms are referendums on the president. And the president is historically unpopular, but it's not just the number, the overall number, it's his approval rating on the things people are most concerned about, which is the economy, the cost of living, inflation. His numbers are far worse than the ones than the one you listed as his overall approval rating.
And especially harsh, his -- in states that are red states, his economic policies have cut a swath through these red states.
So having said all that, I think Democrats are in striking distance in enough states to have a really good day. But it wouldn't surprise me if they fell short of taking over the Senate. And it wouldn't surprise me if they were 52, 53 seats. And it really depends on how high this wave is.
HUNT: Yeah.
S.E. Cupp, one Democratic strategist told CNN. For a story we have out today that, quote, "I don't think we're in a blue wave.
[16:05:03]
I think we're in a red sinkhole," which speaks a little bit to some of what David was talking about.
Do you think that's right?
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, yeah. Another way I've heard it described is like a red undertow. It's just pulling all of these Republican candidates down along with Trump.
And I think that's probably right. You know, I talked to voters all day, and I talked to a voter last week, a woman in Arizona who said she's voted Republican and Democrat, which makes sense in Arizona, and isn't particularly political. And for her this year, she asked herself one question. It was just, do I want more of this? And for her, this meant economic uncertainty from Trump's trade
policies and a war she never voted for or wanted. But also, what she said was like the perception of chaos and corruption and a president who doesn't seem to be focused on anything having to do with her. And I think if there are a lot of voters like that who are not, you know, they're not thinking, I'm just going to vote dem all the way down or are all the way down. I'm just asking, do I want a change? And I'll vote for anyone who's willing to give it to me. That bodes really badly for Republicans. And I think that's where the mindset is for a lot of voters this cycle.
HUNT: Brad Todd, that track?
BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It does change is always the current that happens in midterm elections, especially in midterm elections. You know, and David knows more about this than I do. But in 2014, when Barack Obama was in his second midterm, approximately zero, actually, it's actually zero. Senate candidates wanted him to campaign with him in October.
HUNT: Oh, I talked to a lot of them right in that period of time. And none of them --
TODD: Maybe had him in November, to be factually accurate. But that's not October. So, the presidents have two roles. One is they can go out and try to help the candidate win over independents. They're typically not very good at that in a midterm election, because midterms are checks on the executive often.
The other thing they can do is go turn out your low propensity base. Voters in your base that are not maybe not inclined to vote because they just don't always vote. They don't think elections are as important as other people, or maybe they want to delegate their obligation to other folks.
So, President Trump's trying to do that. That's he's going to those places. He's going to those markets within these states. Now, I don't know that I agree with his assessment that we're immediately winning as soon as the plane touches down.
AXELROD: So uncharacteristic.
TODD: But I do -- I do think that he's doing the right thing. And more importantly, he's putting his money where his mouth is on that. His political operation is spending a ton to do Republican turnout, and that's an advantage that Democrats don't have this time. That money is having to come out of campaign coffers. On the Democrat side, it's coming out of the president's coffers on our side.
HUNT: Yeah.
Chris, what are you seeing across the map?
CHRIS MEAGHER, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Yeah. I mean, I think it's been talked about here, but we're talking about states where Donald Trump won by 14, 15, 16 points. He's headed to Kansas. I think he won by 16 points in 2024, right?
So, these are tough states for Democrats to compete in, just generally speaking, I do -- I do agree with Brad. He's going there to turn out those low propensity voters. You know he's not going there because everybody is all hunky-dory with the way things are going.
I work on the race in Iowa, and we hear time after time, Donald Trump got elected to fix the economy, to lower inflation, and to put an end to endless wars. What has he done? he's implemented these tariffs on in on Iowa farmers. He hasn't done anything on inflation. He got us into another war.
So, people are pissed off. And you're seeing that across the country.
HUNT: Yeah. So, speaking of the Iran war, the vice president participated in a town hall over the weekend, and he was asked by a widower about the war and what the administration was going to do about it. Let's watch that moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a failure in the leadership, and I want to know how this administration is going to start holding those leaders accountable for the actions and the deaths of the soldiers -- that we -- that we honor and that we love.
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When you talk about failures that we're that we we're implicated, the administration, the Department of War, whoever you want to say, was implicated in. I want to know about that stuff. Because if there were failures and I don't doubt that there were, I just -- this is literally the first time I've heard of this is this conversation. And I want to fix that stuff.
I do not want this stuff to happen. I want to understand what we can do better and what those soldiers are seeing because the part of the problem of this job, this job is an amazing honor, but you live in a bit of a bubble and sometimes information doesn't filter -- filter up to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: I mean, S.E. Cupp, that sort of -- it's a very specific example, but it speaks to the big picture that we're talking about here. And I think it's also worth noting, J.D. Vance essentially wanted it to be known that he opposed the Iraq war in the beginning. And that, of course, a big part of this campaign is already a shadow campaign for 2028 on both sides of the aisle.
CUPP: Yeah, that was an inexplicable answer. Whether it's true or not true was inexplicable. It was either incredibly impolitic or breathtakingly shocking, that the vice president isn't aware of some of our failures in Iran.
[16:10:07]
But it does speak to the general feeling that voters believe this administration is focused on everything, but the things that matter to them.
What was Trump tweeting about posting about today? He was railing against Jeanine Pirro and the reflecting pool, and he's really mad about his golf course. This is not -- this is not, you know, the bubble that that J.D. Vance talks about seems very real. Either they are willfully not listening to voters and posting A.I. videos, popping bottles, like rubbing it in, in voters faces that they're doing fine, or they are paying attention. And this is some kind of strategy.
Either way, I think it's a pretty bad idea.
AXELROD: You know, they're just on this one point because it's stuck. We had this discussion last night, this, this attack in which this man's wife was killed. Six service people we're killed in this attack was very well-covered. It was a story that was really brooded over. And the idea that the vice president didn't know about it there.
What have we lost? Seventeen people in the war. Six of them died in this one incident because they we're in a place that wasn't sheltered properly, and they didn't have the defenses to cover against drones. And this was very well known.
So, either he was being disingenuous or he's shockingly ill informed, for a guy who is the number two person in the United States government.
TODD: The vice president did say, he said, we've learned some things about what he told the questioner. They had a very sincere exchange between back and forth. And he first expressed the gratitude that he and the empathy that he and everybody else in the country owes his family. And he was sincere in that.
He then said, we've learned a lot of things about where we place troops with regard to drones, drone warfare, drone warfare is changing the nature of warfare. He said, we've learned lessons from that. We've learned things we can't do, he said. I'm not going to give our enemy the benefit of what we have changed and how we are doing things differently now, and I think that may have gone to that point, David, I think that that may have been why he was -- he was -- he was being a little bit less on point there.
But, of course, wars -- there are mistakes in wars. Every -- every -- there's never been a war waged where you didn't learn things where the military didn't learn things tactically. And this -- this war has mistakes, but it's still necessary.
AXELROD: The bigger point in this war, of course, is that everybody understands the impact it's had on their own lives here.
HUNT: Yeah.
AXELROD: Relative to their costs. And that's at the core of their political problem.
HUNT: Well, and, Marianna, of course, every member of Congress who's on the ballot is having to answer for it. And even though the president promised he wouldn't do something like this.
MARIANNA SOTOMAYOR, CAPITOL HILL CORRESPONDENT, PUCK NEWS: Absolutely. And you've seen how difficult it has been for a number of Republicans to suddenly position themselves against the president because they have taken numerous votes, preventing Democrats' attempts to try and stop this war in Iran. They have taken a number of votes where, you know, Democrats have tried to put Republicans on the record, on the questions of affordability, cost of living, a number of those things.
And I think that despite there being so much money spent, particularly in the senate race, I don't see it as much in the House races because I just talked to so many strategists who are saying that the House is essentially baked in, and you haven't seen all of this money that's going toward a number of races really changing these polls that we're seeing that are just so bad for Republicans, so difficult for Republicans to be able to separate themselves from Trump. And that's been a worry for several weeks. it's just becoming clearer and clearer that for a number of Republican candidates, they really cannot distance themselves.
TODD: To go race by race, though. For instance, Colorados eighth district, which was designed by their redistricting commission to be evenly split. And by statistically, it's the most evenly split race district in the country.
Right now, we're seeing Gabe Evans, the incumbent there out polled Manny Rutinel. If there's any place where a wave should affect the district, it's that district it's supposed to be, be that way. You also see in Florida, Jared Moskowitz is running against Scott Singer. Scott Singer may win that race by double digits against the Democrat incumbent. Now it's newly redrawn to help Republicans, but it still should be a swing seat.
But it's a district with a lot of Jewish American voters who are upset with where Democrat politics, politics has gone. So, this wave may be a lot lumpier than it to the extent there is one.
We certainly found that in '22, Republicans did in 2022, what we thought was a red wave was not quite that.
HUNT: Well, to give you a Joe Biden reelection campaign. So, there's that.
S.E. Cupp, you want a quick last word.
CUPP: No. Brad's right. I mean, we can't pretend that there aren't giant pockets of Republican voters who are going to be swayed by the closing arguments, whether that is Islamophobic fear, some racial fears, um, the trans fears. I mean, there are -- there are a lot of places where those kinds of things will absolutely work. And no one should be surprised when we wake up on, on election day and see Republicans winning in places.
[16:15:04]
It's just not in the places they should easily be winning. HUNT: I think the question too, in a way that there always are
surprises as well. And if it's really that way, we're going to see some incumbent Republicans potentially lose seats that we may not have expected.
All right. S.E. Cupp, thank you. The rest of my panel is going to stand by here.
Coming up next in the arena, we're going to talk with someone who's been out on the trail recently. Unofficially, it's for this year, '26. Unofficially, though, possibly for 2028. Democrat Rahm Emanuel is here live.
But first, why someone named Tommy is now who everyone is talking about in the Michigan Senate race between Democrat Abdul El-Sayed and Republican Mike Rogers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABDUL EL-SAYED (D), MICHIGAN SENATE CANDIDATE: I'm sure everybody has heard about Tommy at this point. You saw that clip. Yes. So clearly condemned. That's not a difficult thing to do. But I do want to talk about why they want to make this their closing argument. Right? Because they want to speak to a certain implicit dual loyalty that they're trying to say. But this has a long history in our politics, that notion that people who might pray a little bit differently have a dual loyalty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:20:29]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EL-SAYED: It was the same thing that they did to JFK when he ran for president. Right? The notion that because he was Catholic, that somehow he had dual loyalties. They did the same thing to President Obama simply because his father was of Muslim origin, even though President Obama is an avowed Christian.
So, this is nothing new. This is what they do when they have no actual message about the real issues in people's lives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Michigan's Democratic Senate nominee Abdul El-Sayed saying there and invoking Presidents Kennedy and Barack Obama, following that now viral interaction that he had with a town hall attendee over the weekend in what became a heated exchange.
A young man repeatedly asked El-Sayed if he would disavow the Muslim Brotherhood, the Islamist political movement that was founded in Egypt from where El-Sayeds parents had emigrated. El-sayed, who would make history as the first Muslim elected to the U.S. senate if he wins, replied this quote, "Yeah, absolutely," before challenging the attendee on the assumptions behind the question.
Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MAEL: Will you disavow the Muslim Brotherhood?
EL-SAYED: Sure. Yeah, absolutely. But I want to I want to ask you the question that you're asking. Why are you asking the question?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, because they're a terrorist group.
EL-SAYED: Okay. No, no, but what are you implying? Do you assume that I wouldn't?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
EL-SAYED: Why not?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because I have not heard you disavow them yet.
EL-SAYED: Have you disavowed them?
You're asking the question because implicitly you assume that ill have dual loyalties, right? You assume that somehow I wouldn't disavow or that I'll have some higher order allegiance than to the Constitution. Correct? Tommy, is that what you imply?
You assume, Tommy, that because I am Muslim, that somehow I would have some allegiance to something that is not our Constitution? That's your assumption. That's implicit in the question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. My panel is back.
David Axelrod, how do you assess the way he is handling this? And the dynamics here, especially considering Obama?
AXELROD: I think that he is right, that, you know, this is not a friendly terrain for Mike Rogers in that race. And they have landed on this as the issue they're going to ride, and they are trying to tap into Islamophobia.
I guess my question is if that's what they want to be talking about, is that what you want to be talking about? I mean, if I we're advising --
HUNT: If you were Abdul El-Sayed?
AXELROD: El-Sayed, if I we're advising him, I would say don't prolong the story for days here, answer the question and then make the pivot to what people really care about. Because I guarantee you that most people in Michigan are really most concerned about the impact of the Canadian trade, you know, war that Trump has created, the effect of the Iran war and all of the economic impacts that they are living with, and Mike Rogers' willingness until just recently to ratify those.
You want to fight the game on your turf. He's got a winning hand to play here. So I would not make it --
HUNT: You're basically saying he's letting them dictate.
AXELROD: I think he is leaning in in ways that I think he thinks helps him because he's impeaching their argument. But I think what he's doing is affirming that this is what this is about, this this is where we're going to fight.
And I also think he has I like him very much. I know him very well. He was a fellow at my institute at the University of Chicago, but, you know, essentially taking the posture that I am -- I am going to teach you. I am smarter than you is not an appealing quality.
MEAGHER: Yeah, he gives this vibe that he just has to be right, you know, and he drives and he drives and he has this. Some might call it confidence, some might call it cockiness, but he just has to be right on an issue.
He needs to be focused on what voters are focused on, which is affordability and cost of living, to David's point, and I think the quicker that he can get back to that message and move on from this, I think he handled this voter very effectively. But we need to move on and get back to what actually matters in this race.
TODD: I think David's half right. I think -- I think --
AXELROD: I'll take it.
TODD: Okay. I think he's -- well, usually I think you're more than half right. So, I think --
AXELROD: This is recorded.
TODD: I think -- I think -- I think you're -- you're wrong about it being Islamophobic. It's not that at all. It's about a policy difference.
You're right about the fact that strategically a lot of things in campaigns, what you have to do as a consultant and as a candidate is keep agenda control in the right spot. And Abdul El-Sayed is not keeping the agenda control in the right spot.
And you could come to believe that he's a lot more focused on the Middle East than he is on the middle class, because he always takes the bait on this.
[16:25:00]
And in defense of this, this exchange that happened here, it occurred because his sister had said, our family has long supported the Muslim Brotherhood. And back in 2011, when the Muslim Brotherhood was trying to take over Egypt, Abdul El-Sayed wrote op eds saying that the U.S., if they succeeded, should support them. So, this is not something that was pulled out of the air. Muslim
Brotherhood is an actual thing in the Middle East. In many countries. It's a terrorist organization in many countries. And this is a guy who sympathized with a terrorist in Michigan who attacked a synagogue, Abdul El-Sayed, his response to that was, well, hurt people hurt people. He immediately empathized with the terrorists and not with the preschool kids.
AXELROD: So, the -- Brad's working on the race. And so, he knows these arguments very well. And we've heard these arguments. But first of all, the Muslim Brotherhood back in 2011 was considered the group that was overthrowing the dictator of Egypt and the U.S. government was taking a more sympathetic view toward them back then.
So, we ought to put that in perspective. But I've seen the advertising, and I think if you ran the ads, you wouldn't question whether they we're trying to tap into islamophobia. My question is whether, you know, you want to aid and abet that by just engaging in this debate back and forth, or do you want to get it back to winning turf for you? And that's what I would suggest he do.
HUNT: Well, let's watch a little bit to, um. El-sayed sat down with NBC News and was pressed on this. And in some ways, the exchanges illuminate some of what our panelists have been talking about here, the way that El-Sayed sometimes seems to get defensive. Let's watch and we'll talk about it. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Can you just explain it?
EL-SAYED: Yeah. Tom. It's funny to me. I was born in 1984 down the street in Rochester Hills. I was raised here in Michigan, went to the University of Michigan, rebuilt the health department in the city, led the health department in this county.
And you want to ask me about what was happening in Egypt in 1970? Are you serious?
REPORTER: I get it, but you were asked a question. Is it kind of like an answer?
EL-SAYED: This is kind of like the same. Yeah, I'm telling you, like we -- I have no ties. We have no ties.
REPORTER: So, your mother had no ties?
EL-SAYED: I have never had these conversations with my mother. I wasn't raised by my mother.
REPORTER: So, you were -- you were -- you were unaware?
EL-SAYED: But I'm just telling you that, like you're using hearsay evidence from a tweet. It's just not serious. It's not serious.
REPORTER: But you've got to talk to the president for truthfulness. You've also gone after the president for truthfulness. So when people ask you a question, they all do expect the truth.
EL-SAYED: And do you think do you think are you insinuating that somehow I was lying?
REPORTER: I don't know, that's why I'm asking you.
EL-SAYED: And I'm telling you, I was not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So worth noting that there was a post from El-Sayed's half sister that was resurfaced online in 2012. She described having a, quote, "amazing talk with my mom about her activism in the Muslim Brotherhood during the early '70s when she was in college."
So, David, that's just the context here. But the -- I'm actually, I'm more interested in the way he answered that question and how it plays into your point.
AXELROD: Yeah. No, that's what I'm talking about. I don't think it's productive. That's going to be the story, and I think answering the question directly and quickly and pivoting and explaining why this has become an issue and what the Republican candidate is trying to do to, to deflect what is a really bad hand for him would be a much smarter play.
HUNT: Marianna?
SOTOMAYOR: Yeah. Just to wrap it all up, I mean, this is a good example of one, something I've heard consistently from Democratic strategists. He is authentic. He's at least answering the question.
The problem is prolonging this debate. And this could actually affect a number of undecided voters, particularly Black voters. That is a huge constituency in Michigan that even Haley Stevens in recent days has noted hasn't necessarily come around in the same way that we've seen with Elissa Slotkin in the past and past races.
AXELROD: Can I -- can I -- can I just -- oh, I'm sorry.
SOTOMAYOR: No, no.
AXELROD: I just because I know we're you going to gong me here.
HUNT: Go ahead.
AXELROD: I quickly want to say when El-Sayed talks about economics, when he talks about the health care, when he talks about corruption and the campaign finance system, he is talking to people directly and he is scoring. He is the only one who can beat him in this race, and he will do it if he gets off that path and gets sucked into a ongoing debate with his opponent about these issues.
MEAGHER: And I think it says something about him that he hasn't put this race away yet. We're talking about a race that should be off the table for Democrats. And it's not yet because -- TODD: Because of this issue. If Haley Stevens were the nominee who had
Joe Bidens position on this on Israel, the race would be over.
HUNT: All right. Coming up next here in THE ARENA, a major courtroom clash over the president's plan to overhaul a D.C. golf course, a federal judge demanding answers about whether the administration is telling her one thing and doing something else.
Plus, Rahm Emanuel is here, live in THE ARENA. What he thinks about a longtime powerhouse in his party, saying Democrats might be better off if Republicans keep control of the House in the midterm.
[16:30:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I would rather the Republicans keep the House by five than the Democrats win by five. Because if that happens, they're hostage to the DSA. Like Hakeem cannot move. There's no place for him to go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HUNT: All right. Welcome back.
With Democrats feeling increasingly bullish about their midterm chances, party leaders are now debating what their priority list should look like after the election, specifically over this idea of how exactly Democrats should use their oversight power. Senator Elissa Slotkin of Michigan, now facing backlash from some of her conservative colleagues after suggesting that congressional investigations should target not just the president, but also young aides who do his, quote/unquote, "bidding".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ELISSA SLOTKIN (D-MI): I want to look at these signature cases and not just focus on the president, but on the people who enabled him. I want young people coming out of school to say, should I go work for the Trump administration? Like, that sounds fun. I might get an opportunity. I want them to be like, Lord, that might be buying myself a ton of problems that I don't want. And so let me avoid participating in that. I want that deterrence message sent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Joining me now, former Chicago Mayor and Obama White House chief of staff, Ambassador Rahm Emanuel.
Mr. Ambassador, a man of many titles. Welcome back. it's great to see you in THE ARENA.
RAHM EMANUEL, FORMER OBAMA WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Thanks, Kasie. HUNT: I -- what -- do you think that this is the right message that Slotkin has here? I do think it is worth noting some of the response to what she said. There was in particular, Mike Davis, the head of conservative legal group, wrote she should, quote, "learn about the Second Amendment, sweetheart."
So, the backlash has had its own potential challenges as well. But what say you.?
EMANUEL: Look, I mean -- I'm for oversight. The hearings that the blind Republican Congress has never actually provided. But I mean, my view is not about young members follow the money. That's what I'm interested in.
Where is the Pentagon's new oil business in Venezuela? What has happened to the checks to Ric Grenell? Follow all the money and all the deals. That's what I'm interested.
But the thing I would say today, if I we're in the leadership is within the first three months, we're going to pass a comprehensive ethics reform -- ban on stock trading for all three branches. Ban on prediction markets, mandatory retirement age, mandatory blind trust, and a ban on foreign money in your post business.
Make a commitment by time frame certain you will have an ethics package off the house floor that captures the fact that corruption is the number one issue. Kasie out there and people of all, which is the biggest break here is you have Romney Republicans leaving the Republican Party, as the post showed in their poll, 28 percent of them are voting for Democrats.
Don't just do investigations, bring change. They don't want a Democratic version of the Hunger Games. They want change. And if you deliver change, you can lock in these victories and make them more permanent than just a single election.
HUNT: So speaking of what would be possible, should Democrats take the House, I want to play something that James Carville said over the weekend about what this landscape could look like if, in fact, the margin in the House is extremely small. Watch
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARVILLE: I would be disappointed if it if it comes in at 225 House seats, that -- that would be -- that would almost be -- I would rather the Republicans keep the House by five than the Democrats win by five, because if that happens, they're hostage to the DSA. Like Hakeem cannot move. There's no place for him to go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: He's basically saying if the margin is so small for Democrats that these candidates that are coming in who are members of the DSA are enough to derail the agenda on the floor, he would rather Republicans stay in charge. Does he have a point? EMANUEL: Yeah. Well, here's what I would say, in 1994, another big
term, Newt Gingrich ended up with 231. In '06, when I led the effort, Nancy Pelosi ended up with 233 as the majority. 2010, Raul Ryan ended up with -- he had 242. And then in 2018, it was 235.
HUNT: A man of many titles.
(CROSSTALK)
EMANUEL: -- allows -- no.
Well, a working majority requires that nobody holds the caucus hostage. So, anything north of that number and I don't you know, I used to say this to Nancy when we we're counting votes every morning. Mo Udall, the former caucus chair, used to say, what's the difference between a cactus and a caucus? This is Mo Udall.
In a cactus, the pricks are on the outside. That's all you got to remember. And so I just say that by remembering that a working majority.
And you take a look at what has happened to every Republican. Speaker, three members can hold up the entire caucus. And so I wouldn't exactly. I prefer a Democrat --
(CROSSTALK)
HUNT: See how that went for him.
EMANUEL: I prefer -- yeah, I prefer a Democratic majority that can pass an ethics bill, that can pass a raise in the minimum wage. That's a working majority. And I wouldn't prefer a Republican, even by a single seat majority, because I think Democratic oversight is especially essential given this president and his recent actions, not only on corruption, what he's doing in Ukraine, what he's doing in the economy, what he's done unilaterally, taking his eye off the ball for the United States middle class and playing basically a vanity game in D.C.
To me, a majority is worth it, but you got to make it worth the change that people want and you don't want any three members to hold the entire caucus and the whole entire team hostage.
[16:40:03]
HUNT: Yeah. So, you, of course, have been out on the trail the last couple of days, over the weekend. I know you we're down south and you were in Georgia. We also know that this period of time is already the shadow campaign for 2028 is underway. You're part of that.
In Georgia, you know, Jon Ossoff potentially part of that. What are you seeing and hearing on that front? What are voters looking for, especially if Democrats do win? And there's the potential that they overreach in Washington? It's possible you could over learn the lessons of a big win in these midterms. EMANUEL: Yeah. Well, look, I mean, I personally think, Kasie, the
Republicans are going to lose on November 3rd. What the Democrats do in 2027 will determine whether they've won.
Now, in '07, we did certain things like kids health care that President Bush vetoed, that set up President Obama for '08. And back in '91, George Mitchell, the Senate majority leader, sent a budget and tax increases that George Bush signed. Got Pat Buchanan in the primary and set up Bill Clinton in '92.
So, the Republicans will lose in November. We will not win. Now, what we do for the next 18 months will determine whether we won. And that's what I mean by delivering on change.
They don't want a Democratic version of the Hunger Games. They're tired of it. Pass an ethics bill, not don't go to impeachment. Pass a minimum wage that actually means something. It hasn't happened in 20 years. That is all down payment on change.
And so, that to me will determine and what we do as a majority. And I'm also assuming with a slight caution, but I think Schumer has done a great job that we win the senate. You need to deliver on that change and show people they made the right choice, so they down -- so this is a down payment rather than a transactional election, a transformational election. That's the possibility of the year 2027.
HUNT: What impact do you think the Democratic socialist candidates potentially in the house, when you outlined how that could play out, but especially in the context of the nominating contest? I mean, what impact do you think they're going to have on the Democratic nominating process? And what do Americans actually want?
EMANUEL: Yeah. So, three things I would say quickly, the biggest change in this election isn't the man bites dog that you just referred to. The biggest change is that Romney, McCain Republicans are leaving the maga Republican Party. They're open for grabs. That's number one.
Number two, because of the pathetic decision by the Roberts courts on Voting Rights Act and the redistricting, you're going to have massive turnout and you're seeing it already in the primaries and in the general election in the African American community.
Third, and if you go through the presidential the last three presidentials, seven states, 500,000 voters across those seven states decided who was president. And if you want to win, that's what you have to focus on. You have to focus where the electoral majority is created in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, North Carolina, Georgia, Arizona and Nevada. It isn't created in the blue bubbles where you take a blue district and make it midnight blue. It's flipping red to blue. That counts in a presidential.
And finally, while I've had my disagreements with DSA, you got to appreciate the angst and the anger and the frustration that's driving people frustrated that Tuesday will never be better than Monday. This next year will never be better than this year. And it has to do with a disappearing ability to achieve the middle-
class life for the for the American people. And that is a real angst out there. And everybody's talking about how yesterday is the best America has to offer. And you got to, once you take away hope and you only offer despair, people get angry. It shouldn't be that hard.
The moment the American dream became unaffordable is exactly when our democracy became unstable. So, restore the American dream, restore the middle class, and you're going to have a thriving ability. But if you don't, people are going to go to extremes from Donald Trump to something else. And you have to appreciate that anger and frustration at a failed system.
HUNT: All right. Rahm Emanuel, thank you very much for being here. Hope to see you again soon.
EMANUEL: Thanks, Kasie.
HUNT: All right. Talk to you.
Ahead in THE ARENA, teed off. A federal judge today ripping into the administration during a contentious court hearing over the president's latest construction project here in D.C.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:48:59]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You have a golf course right now. It's old, it's tired, it's beaten up. It's useless. It doesn't do much business. We want to do something great for Washington. We're going to basically build a better golf course. You could call it a renovation. It should be very simple.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Happening right now in a D.C. courtroom is one of the tensest showdowns ever between a federal judge and the Trump Justice Department.
An army of DOJ lawyers are being grilled over the presidents plans to renovate a D.C. golf course, including the removal of hundreds of trees from the East Potomac golf course earlier this month. While the DOJ claimed that the action was part of routine maintenance, the president announced his renovation plans for the course on Sunday. District Judge Ana Reyes said, quote, "There is no universe in which all of this just coincidentally happened at the same time. There just isn't."
Twenty-four hours ago, the president said construction would begin next month. Today changed his tune and said this, quote, "They do not need an approval. Work is scheduled to begin immediately."
[16:50:00] Skye Perryman, the president of Democracy Forward, one of the groups representing the plaintiffs who are challenging this project, shared her concerns with CNN earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SKYE PERRYMAN, PRESIDENT, DEMOCRACY FORWARD: It's harmful. It's unlawful. It will take away a valuable public land that's available for all people. And there's a number of laws that they're breaking in the process and harming the communities. The president wants to build something that is not for everyone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. David Axelrod, does this simply go into the category of like the presidents worried about --
AXELROD: Yes. Don't even finish your sentence.
HUNT: Golfing?
AXELROD: I know that's part of why he has a problem is because people think that he is not focused on them. You know, there was this "AP" poll earlier in the week with the NORC. And this is more on the corruption side, but it's instructive here.
You see Trump as prioritizing the country or people like themselves since taking office. And they feel like he's focused on his business interests. He's focused on the business interests of his friends and family.
But when you ask, is he focused on the country overall, 42 percent. Is he -- is he focused on people like me? Twenty-nine percent.
And part of that is a function of that. A lot of the news he makes is around ballrooms and golf courses and not around health care, and not, at least in a positive way, or the fight against inflation, which he says doesn't exist, which he says has been solved. He calls it the golden age.
And I think people think he's completely disconnected from their experience. So they'll look at this and say, this is what he's spending his time on?
HUNT: Is that how this is going to go over in Iowa, Chris?
MEAGHER: I mean, David hit the nail on the head. Every single piece of available data, publicly and privately says all people want are for their elected officials to be focused on them. All Donald Trump does is focus on construction projects throughout the Washington, D.C., DMV area. You know, like time after time, he has shown that he doesn't have the interest of the American people in mind.
And thank God that we have the justice system, these judges keeping him in check. But politically, he's just off on another fool's errand, while people in rural states like Iowa and Kansas and Texas and Alaska and Ohio are all saying, enough is enough, we're going to the polls. And we're voting against this because it's not working for me.
HUNT: And so, one thing that has come up, as we have been covering the president's various projects of interest here in Washington, Howard Lutnick this was around the Kennedy center. But, you know, golf is, of course, something that the president does for fun, Lutnick underscored that in a press conference in August.
Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD LUTNICK, COMMERCE SECRETARY: The president works all day, every day. And there are two things that he does for enjoyment. He plays golf on the weekend, and he builds. He loves to build. So, this like, why are we talking about this? This is what he enjoys.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Brad Todd, we're talking about the president enjoys doing for fun while Americans basically can't pay to fill up their cars and trucks.
TODD: Well, I don't know that Secretary Lutnick was exactly on message in that point.
(LAUGHTER)
TODD: But I would trust Donald Trump to build golf courses and ballrooms more than I would trust any American president to do that. He has more experience doing those two things than anyone to ever hold the office. I think --
HUNT: Right. But is that the point? Is that what people want him to be doing with his time?
TODD: Well, some of those things need to be done. And if you played his point, you know, it really is not much of a great course and it could use a lot of improvement. But it's -- I think the problem is, is that the president then relishes the legal fights he gets into involving these things.
And this judge, in this case, Judge Reyes, actually threw the book at the whistleblower who leaked illegally, leaked his taxes, and now he's saying she's a lunatic. Whatever.
HUNT: He said the judge on the case is a crazed lunatic whose courthouse tapes will reveal maybe insane.
TODD: Right.
HUNT: That was the quote from the president.
TODD: Right. But the details are a little bit different on that.
But I think his urgency to do things is what's driving a lot of this. And that's because Congress itself has become an unworkable institution. And so, he's using every executive lever he can to do things. And I think he's -- his pace is a problem. That's what David is getting at is some of what the American people think is that maybe he's doing too much, too fast, too many different things.
AXELROD: Well, that's not exactly what I was saying. What I was saying is maybe he's doing stuff that has nothing to do with their lives.
TODD: I'm editing.
AXELROD: I appreciate -- I appreciate uh, you know what you said, except I thought you we're going to go to. I trust him to build golf courses. I trust him to build ballrooms. I just don't trust him to wage war or manage the economy, because those are the things people are focused on right now.
If they -- I think they'd be perfectly happy to hire him if they wanted to build a golf course. Most people aren't in the market for that.
MEAGHER: It's also his personal, relentless focus. You know, he has at his disposal some of the greatest talent in the world. He could hire somebody to put the golf course together. He could hire somebody to do the reflecting --
HUNT: But that's the thing he basically can't hire.
MEAGHER: He has to do it. He has to do it --
AXELROD: -- better than him.
HUNT: That's the thing.
All right. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HUNT: All right. Thanks to my panel. Really appreciate having all of you here today.
Thanks to all of you at home for watching as well.
But of course, don't go anywhere. Jake Tapper is standing by for "THE LEAD".
Jake, are we going to talk about the Birds here ever again this season again?
