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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Trump Ratchets Up Alarm About Democrats On Campaign Trail, Claims U.S. Will "Burn" Like France If GOP Loses Midterms; Ohio Governor Race Roiled By New Viral Video Featuring The Estranged Mother Of Democratic Candidate Amy Acton; Trump Envoy Meets With Zelenskyy Amid Growing Rift. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired October 20, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:00]
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Jalen Brunson's mom wrote him a note. My mom wrote us a note, and it says Heat in three.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: She wrote me one, too.
SANCHEZ: Heat in three.
KEILAR: Omar --
SANCHEZ: Omar Jimenez --
KEILAR: Thanks so much.
Let's go to THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT.
(MUSIC)
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's great to have you with us on this Tuesday.
Right now, just two weeks to the day from Election Day. And today, five more states begin early voting, adding to the almost 11 million ballots already cast. As that happens, President Donald Trump is about to bring his red state campaign tour to North Carolina as he paints these midterms in existential terms.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you want to see what is at stake in this election, just look at what's happening in France, a once great nation that is being conquered, lootered, and burned to the ground by migrants, jihadists, and communists who hate Christianity, and they hate, frankly, the Western civilization itself. When you see burning steeples and raging fires in France, just remember that is what the radical Democrats want to do to America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: President Trump in Kansas last night trying to tie American Democrats to this, a wave of riots across France following protests over the cost of living and the country's education system.
This afternoon, the president announced, quote, "Because of my belief in the Republican Party and all of our policies and principles, and especially after witnessing what's taking place in France, I have spent or will be spending over $400 million by election day," end quote.
The president, not the only one spending big. This afternoon, the Republican National Committee confirming to CNN that they're moving more than $50 million to groups that are helping its candidates.
And according to a new CNN analysis, more than $300 million has been spent to reserve advertising between now and Election Day. The state atop that list with almost 70 million set to hit the airwaves? Ohio. The latest CNN poll of polls there finds Democrat Sherrod Brown with a small but durable lead over Republican incumbent Jon Husted.
Vice President J.D. Vance will visit his home state tomorrow. The president himself has been there twice in the last month.
One place President Trump hasn't visited, New Hampshire, where the state's former Republican governor, John E. Sununu -- excuse me, former senator -- looking to flip a Senate seat that is currently held by a Democrat. And if you have any question as to why President Trump hasn't swung by the Granite State at all, watch this new ad from the Republican candidate that he endorsed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN E. SUNUNU (R), NEW HAMPSHIRE SENATE CANDIDATE: The way Chris Pappas tells it, I'm President Trump's long-lost son. I've never even met the man. When the president's policies are bad for New Hampshire, I'll oppose them. Just like I oppose the war in Iran and the trade war with Canada. That's New Hampshire independent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Very telling.
All right, let's get off the sidelines, head into THE ARENA. My panel is here.
CNN legal analyst, former federal prosecutor Elliot Williams; chief Washington correspondent for "Puck News", Leigh Ann Caldwell; former Democratic congressman from South Carolina, Joe Cunningham; and former Trump White House communications director Mike Dubke.
Welcome to all of you. Thank you all very much for being here.
Mike, the president continuing this deep red tour. He was in Kansas which -- I mean, if you talk to, obviously the Republicans I talked to are saying Kansas is already gone. Ohio is a place that, I mean, listen, I spent a lot of time in Ohio with Mitt Romney, but that was way back in 2012, which is the last time it was really on a presidential map anyway.
MIKE DUBKE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Yeah.
HUNT: What's going on? How bad is this going to be?
DUBKE: Well, a couple of things. One, I think, you know, we had this in 2024 with Republicans, with Deb Fischer in Nebraska. There was this concern, and then she ends up winning by double digits in the election. So I am happy that there is concern on each one of these states, including Kansas, to make sure that people turn out.
But it's like we've talked before, we've got this as Republicans, given the cost of living, given the rise in gas prices, et cetera, we've got this duality we need to perform, which is making this as local as possible as a race. and at the same time have Donald Trump turn out his base that doesn't turn out when he's not on the ballot.
HUNT: Right.
DUBKE: And so part of what is happening right now by the president going to red state after red state after red state is that second part of the equation.
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: But just to the local point, you don't think that some of the national issues actually work almost even better than local issues and firing people up to come out, right?
DUBKE: Not in the situation that we've seen. When you're expecting a wave, which I think a lot of Republicans are expecting a wave.
HUNT: Yeah.
DUBKE: That's why they're saying Kansas is lost. Oh, my God. When you -- when you're expecting --
HUNT: I don't know, like I got to tell you, I think some of the smarter strategists think, you know, Texas is still in play. Michigan might still be in play, but for whatever reason, they're saying Kansas in particular is gone. Not -- not a joke.
And here, listen, part of this may be about local issues to Kansas, okay? And that's part of why what the president did yesterday in Kansas was a little bit confusing if you're a campaign strategist trying to keep Roger Marshall, the sitting Republican senator, in that seat.
[16:05:09]
Now, Marshall faced a "New York Times" story. He's a practicing OB- GYN. And his practice was owed money by some people who had, in many cases, very difficult stories about being unable to pay their bills after having had a baby. Some of them were arrested after failing to pay debts that were also stacked with high interest that had been charged by Marshall's practice.
The president talked about this story from the podium last night at this rally, and he managed to also include an antisemitic slur while he did it. Watch. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He was hit by a bum rap because he was mandated by law to request strongly money owed from patients. You're not allowed not to do it. You have to, by law, go after those people. And they made it like, oh, he was some kind of a Shylock-type guy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Now, let's note this is what the Anti-Defamation League had to say about this. Quote, "The term 'Shylock' is rooted in long-standing anti-Semitic stereotype, regardless of intent. Its use can reinforce harmful tropes about Jews and normalize language that has long been used to target the Jewish community." I actually don't want to repeat that, but they used it in this post.
I mean, Mike, like, what, what the, what the?
DUBKE: What the?
(LAUGHTER)
HUNT: I also try not to say that.
DUBKE: Are we talking about the unpaid bills? Are we talking about it? I'm like, where do you want me to go with this?
He's in -- I'm going to -- you know what I'm going to do?
HUNT: Is the president helping or hurting? How about we do that?
DUBKE: I'm going to go back to my talking point which is this -- the president is going to red states in order to turn out his base which is probably the best way for Republicans especially in red states that are facing poll numbers that don't look particularly great. The best way to energize those people in order to turn out on November 3rd. That's what I think's happening.
JOE CUNNINGHAM (D), FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA CONGRESSMAN: I mean, look, if you're the president, you're not welcome in swing states, that's probably a bad sign for what's to come. I mean, I think 18, maybe in a wave year, I'm looking at this year as being more of a 40-year flood. I mean, if the Republican Party is having to invest $5 million in my home state of South Carolina --
HUNT: I was going to ask you, what are you seeing on the ground in your state?
CUNNINGHAM: We're seeing a lot of Annie Andrews signs, especially down in Beaufort County, other parts of the state. The momentum there is real. You know, her fundraising is just enormous.
She's getting independents. She's getting Republicans on her side.
HUNT: You're talking with the Democratic candidate in South Carolina. CUNNINGHAM: Yes. Dr. Annie Andrews, who's a dear friend of mine. She is an incredible candidate. She's actually my son's pediatrician.
And if I, and I tell --
DUBKE: And you pay your bills?
CUNNINGHAM: I do pay my bills. And I tell, no, no, look, and I tell South Carolinians if I would trust her with my kid, you should trust her with your vote. The polling there is incredibly close, and I think people are going to be shocked on Election Day.
WILLIAMS: Just quickly, just to the Roger Marshall and Kansas issue, a lot of this is self-inflicted wounds by Republicans by not having good candidates. You have a similar issue in Texas, which should be just a gimme for Republicans. It's a ruby-red state, and you've got a bad candidate with a lot of baggage in Ken Paxton, a lot of scandals.
HUNT: That's a disservice to bad candidates everywhere to just call Ken Paxton a bad candidate, OK? Go ahead.
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL, CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, PUCK NEWS: I mean, talking about candidates, a lot of these candidates and a lot of these races that Republicans are losing are actually because of Trump, and there's going to be a lot of finger-pointing. Ken Paxton is the nominee in large part because of Donald Trump, helped push him over the finish line there. There's other races, too, where the president, a lot of House races, especially that are coming online because Trump picked the candidate that weren't the right fit.
And so, you know, the president spending $400 million, he hasn't done that yet. He spent just about $200 million. We'll see if those additional $200 million comes online. But when he has Elon Musk spending more money in Texas than the president spends for a state where the president is responsible in large part for the actual race and that Republicans might lose there, says a lot about how invested he in these midterms.
HUNT: Let's watch also, because as we're talking about this map that has expanded, and look, Democrats clearly are feeling really encouraged by where things are. Expectations are pretty high. That can also be a dangerous game to play two weeks out from an election.
But they are putting some money into a state that really hasn't been on the map for Democrats in a federal election in quite some time, and that's Mississippi.
Let's watch this new ad that backs the Democratic candidate there running against Republican Senator Cindy Hyde-Smith.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AD NARRATOR: The choice, a district attorney or a do nothing? Scott Colom, devoted to family and Christian faith. He'll fight corruption in both parties that drives up costs.
Cindy Hyde-Smith, a do-nothing in it for herself, costing you a decade in power.
[16:10:04]
Hyde-Smith hasn't passed one piece of legislation, but she did vote to kick people off Medicaid and pocketed thousands from special interests.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So that gives you a sense of the arguments that can be made there. But Congressman, what's your sense of this race? Raphael Warnock, a senator from Georgia, has been spending a lot of time and effort raising money in this race, and now some of the national groups are sending some money down there. Is it real at all, in your view?
CUNNINGHAM: I believe so. It just goes to show how some of these races that would have been written off are now competitive. I think -- the candidates matter, right? But this environment is going to be unlike anything we've seen in recent years.
You know, I've got FOMO for not jumping in and running.
HUNT: You said you're not on the ballot?
CUNNINGHAM: Yeah, I mean, it is, like, exciting to watch. Seriously, it's exciting to see.
DUBKE: No, I totally understand what you're saying.
HUNT: Mike's like, I'm going to pretend I don't.
CUNNINGHAM: This environment, I should be honest with you. I mean, timing is a lot in politics. Yes, candidates matter, and it's important, but this, you know, rising tide is going to lift all ships.
DUBKE: Look, these mistakes happen where you don't invest sometimes where you could get a win and you just didn't think it was going to be there and then it was. I mean 2010, we had a lot of -- you know, Republicans with the Tea Party folks kicked butt. And we had a lot what we called driftwood candidates that shouldn't have won that were then voted out the next cycle.
But in 2014, I can think of, you know, the Mark Warner-Ed Gillespie race in Virginia. I mean, Ed probably would have won that race if Republicans had put some money into that ballot because Democrats weren't paying attention.
So, these things do happen. I totally understand your FOMO on this.
CUNNINGHAM: Driftwood's a very new term.
DUBKE: Well, I wasn't calling you driftwood.
HUNT: I was going to say, be careful, you might be without realizing it. Leigh Ann, are there any races on your radar? Or how, when you talk to
sources on Capitol Hill, I mean, it is, we can debate the term itself, but certainly there are years where, I mean, 2010 was one of these years with the Tea Party, where there just were people that you didn't expect to see lose. go down, and we had very surprising election night.
There's usually warnings. I mean, Eric Cantor was a warning when he went down in a primary or before that night. But I'm just curious if you're getting a sense that that may be brewing on the Hill?
CALDWELL: Yeah, so Republicans I'm talking to on the Hill are increasingly skeptical that they will even win 200 seats on election night in the House of Representatives. They are privately telling me that it's about three people within the span of 24 four hours, not connected, said that, which was a little shocking to me.
But that is the depth of how deep this is going. And the year that this is actually being compared to is 2006, when there was, you know, massive losses on the Republican.
HUNT: That made Nancy Pelosi speaker of the House.
CALDWELL: Exactly.
And also, when you go back to that year, Donald Trump's approval ratings was very similar to what George Bush's was at that same time, also about 37, 38 percent. No Democratic incumbent that year in the House, Senate, or gubernatorial race lost.
I don't know if it's going to be that because of redistricting. There's some of these districts that Democrats will lose because of it. But people are saying that 2006 might be the most comparable.
HUNT: Let's watch my colleague Jake Tapper sat down with Thom Tillis, the outgoing senator from North Carolina, whose seat is likely to be soon occupied by the current Democratic governor of North Carolina, Roy Cooper. Here's what he said to Jake.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, THE LEAD: You think it's a bloodbath coming for Republicans?
SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): I think it's going to be rough. We have time to overcome, I think, some of the problems in the Senate. I personally don't see any scenario where we can keep the majorities in the House. I'd like to fight for it. It's not like I'm giving up. I don't see the path.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: He's not giving up. He just can't see a way out. Way forward, Mike.
DUBKE: What time is he talking about? When was that filmed? Because we got two weeks left. I know.
(LAUGHTER)
DUBKE: I'm glad he thinks that we've got time because God bless him. That was my optimistic take of that clip is what I just heard. Republicans have time.
HUNT: Where are you? Do you think that sitting here today, two weeks out, will Republicans have the Senate next year?
DUBKE: Two weeks out, yes, I do think that there is enough -- there are enough institutional reasons in each one of these states that we're talking about to think that Republicans are going to come out on top on election day, yes.
HUNT: Congressman?
CUNNINGHAM: I think Democrats take control of both chambers.
HUNT: Yeah? All right. You heard it here first, two weeks out.
Coming up next in THE ARENA, the new viral video in Ohio that is upending the already deeply personal race for governor. It's pretty tough.
Plus, President Trump's new message for Ukraine and the blunt words from the secretary of state.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: People need to grow up when it comes to foreign policy a little bit, okay? It is -- I don't think it's unusual, frankly, for the three most powerful nuclear-armed nations on Earth, for their leaders to communicate with one another.
[16:15:07]
I think it makes all the sense in the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HUNT: All right, welcome back.
The Ohio governor's race being roiled today by a new video that's shown up online. It shows the estranged mother of Democratic gubernatorial candidate Amy Acton. We're going to play it for you and then explain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONNA ARTHUR, AMY ACTON'S MOTHER: My name is Donna Arthur, and I'm Amy Acton's mother. I worked at Children and Family Service Association building Arthur and I'm Amy Acton's mother. I worked at Children and Family Service Association building one of the first two sexual abuse programs in America.
[16:20:02]
I love my daughter, but when I saw her lying about her opponent, it's not easy for a mother to say this, that Amy has a serious problem. She is a liar. She lies about her past.
She says she grew up living in a tent. None of that is true. She's lied her entire life. My daughter needs help, and she can't help you if she needs help herself.
People can change, but first they have to tell the truth and my daughter still isn't doing that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So the ad has been widely circulated on social media. Acton has said that she hasn't seen her mother since she was about 12 years old when the man that her mother married abused her and faced criminal charges for it.
Acton's brother put out a statement through her campaign saying this, quote, "It's not surprising that Vivek Ramaswamy, that's her Republican opponent, has stooped to such a despicable low as to attempt to turn the sexual abuse that Amy endured at 12 years old from our birth mother's husband into a political talking point. After he was arrested and Amy and I were removed from their custody, our birth mother stayed married to Amy's rapist until he died."
Now, Acton's Republican opponent in the race, Vivek Ramaswamy, did not say whether he was involved with the video. His campaign spokesperson said this in part, quote, "We know that Amy Acton is a serial fabulist who has some serious problems with the truth and that the public needs to be aware of before deciding who to entrust as governor."
So as this is all unfolding, I do want to play a little bit of what Amy Acton herself has said today in explaining her relationship with her estranged mother. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMY ACTON (D), OHIO GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I won't normalize somebody who has said that my childhood is something I'm just complaining about, who today just released an ad using my birth mother who I was removed from at the age of 12 for severe abuse and neglect and sexual abuse. It was a pattern in the presidential debates, you know, I remember Chris Christie going at it with him. I remember Nikki Haley because he was such a liar and he was attacking Nikki Haley's 14-year-old daughter on air during presidential debates. You know this is a lifelong pattern with my opponent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So she, of course, was talking about the presidential campaign that Ramaswamy also waged. Mike Dubke, the origins of this ad are very murky. It doesn't include
any of the standard disclaimer. This, again, has been circulating online, different potentially from paid media, although, of course, we're still trying to figure out where this comes from.
What does this -- what kind of politics are we seeing on display here?
DUBKE: Well, I mean, this is the very definition of an October surprise. This is when you're running a campaign or you're waiting for or to see if one is against you or for you. I think the way that people react when these things happen is very telling about how they're going to be as a person in power and in government. and you don't necessarily have any control about it.
Their campaign, the Ramaswamy campaign, may have heard about this and said, we're staying away from this. But you still need to come out and you need to have a proactive statement. So, I hope they do that soon.
HUNT: I mean, if anything, they embraced it, right? We know that Amy Acton is a serial fabulist to a serious problems with the truth that the public needs to be aware of before deciding who to entrust with the other.
DUBKE: This ad will stand on its own for whatever it is, one way or the other, but you can get, you know, when mud is slung, even if you don't do the slinging, it can fall back on you if you don't address it properly. I think so.
WILLIAMS: There's one answer here, and this is, look, the answer is, I disagree with Amy Acton on a host of issues of policy. We're fighting a spirited campaign. There's no place for this trash in the American political system, number one.
And number two, I want everybody to step back. You know, Kasie, you mentioned the normal disclaimers. This is why we have campaign laws in America, right? This is why, you know, we here, you know, I'm Joe Cunningham and I approve this message. There's a reason for that, and because there is a value to the public knowing who's paying for ads, where they're coming from, and why they're sponsored.
Now, with this junk appearing on the Internet, this is corrosive to our system and dangerous, and it's only going to get worse with A.I.
DUBKE: And Elliot, I don't think we're saying very dissimilar things. I am saying this is where you show your leadership.
HUNT: And Mike, if they didn't have anything to do with it, if they don't want anything to do with it, why would they not just say that?
DUBKE: I think the second part of your of your question is the is probably they heard about something like this. They don't want to have anything to do with it. They should say that.
HUNT: Well, why then why are they saying --
[16:25:05] DUBKE: I don't know. I don't know.
CALDWELL: But if it does go on air, we don't know if it's on air or not.
HUNT: Yeah, it can't go on air without the disclaimer.
CALDWELL: Well, that's what I was going to ask, right? It's just an attempt to have this spread on social and pick up. Called earned media.
WILLIAMS: The question is, who's it from, though? Is it from the campaign? And they have some obligation to say, we put this out there.
Or is it from somebody on the Internet with a budget and money who's willing to put junk out there? And I just think we're going to see a lot more of this.
CALDWELL: This could totally backfire. I mean, there's a lot of families with a lot of issues and going to a mother who hasn't seen their daughter since she was 12 years old and using this person to be a testimonial in an ad, you know, might not go over so well.
CUNNINGHAM: This goes beyond the pale. I mean, it's not uncommon to have family members in campaign ads. I had four of my brothers, for me. Paul Gosar, not so much. Remember that ad, is 66 and sibling?
But this does go beyond the pale because it digs up such treacherous and hurtful memories. And not only who's paid for it, right? Is that mother being paid? Is she receiving compensation for me?
Because she reads it like she's being held hostage and she's reading a script there. So there's a lot of questions, very few answers.
HUNT: I mean, I think it's worth noting, too, like the polling in this race. Amy Acton, according to Maris, which polled October 15 to 18, sitting at 50 percent over Ramaswamy, 43 percent. Honestly, losers do desperate things.
WILLIAMS: Yeah, I mean, they do. This is a desperate act. Again, I'm not necessarily saying that it is Vivek Ramaswamy because there's no disclaimer, we don't know who's paying for it where it --
HUNT: Yeah, to be clear and I wasn't saying that they did I'm just saying that if they were down --
(CROSSTALK)
DUBKE: Look, I'm making the argument they should make a better they should have made a better statement --
WILLIAMS: Yeah.
DUBKE: -- because they do need to clear the air on this because the inference is that they had something to do with it so they need as a campaign you need to push back on that as well. WILLIAMS: Yeah I mean I think a great example is a little bit of a parallel is John McCain someone standing up at a rally calling Barack Obama an Arab and a terrorist or whatever, and he took the mic away --
HUNT: Oh, I thought you were going to talk about the South Carolina ad around McCain's family and George W. Bush, which is another --
CUNNINGHAM: That's the other side.
HUNT: Yeah, that's the other side. But I just think --
WILLIAMS: Yeah. Disavow -- that is not true.
CUNNINGHAM: To go back to a time like that, huh?
WILLIAMS: Right. I mean, how quaint it is that that's the example of higher politics.
Leigh Ann Caldwell, I mean, how does this play in -- I mean, the fact that Ohio is in play also says a lot about our national environment, right? I mean, this was, in many ways, I mean, how much time do people spend in Youngstown looking for people that voted for Obama twice and then for Donald Trump, right?
There's a lot of the storylines that we have been that have been driving all of our politics have been playing out there in recent years, and now all of a sudden, it's in play. Why?
CALDWELL: Yeah, it's in play because of the president's policies and what's happening is there is actually a direct connection to what the president's policies are and people's economic situation, which in previous iterations of economic distress, it was a lot harder.
In COVID, it was a national event. In the 2008 financial crisis, it was a national event that bad policies might have caused it, but it was not the actions of one president who directly made your gas prices higher.
And that is why a place like Ohio that sent J.D. Vance to the vice president's office, John Husted is the person who was nominated to replace JD Vance this is JD Vance's seat and --
HUNT: And he's going to go campaign in Ohio tomorrow and we may see Vivek Ramaswamy standing next to him. If this scenario is such as you outlined, Mike, I mean, should the vice president stand next to Vivek Ramaswamy if they're not willing to say hey we're not wanting to do with this.
DUBKE: I've got to believe they're going to ask the question before they get on stage with each other so this will get sorted out.
I mean this popped up last night as you said the initial statement went out. I do think they need to clarify but we'll see. Yeah. That -- that is a real question.
WILLIAMS: The hardest -- the hardest thing I would say quickly is that the tragedy of life and the internet age that the damage is done it's out there and millions of people have seen this and have drawn their conclusions about it.
But I'm with you on the potential for backlash on something like this especially -- potentially with women voters.
All right. Coming up next here in THE ARENA, the top Democrat on the Armed Services Committee will be here live. We're going to talk to Congressman Adam Smith as the relationship between President Trump and President Zelenskyy of Ukraine seems to reach a new low.
Plus, the city of Memphis will try to vote today on an issue that has led to violent outbursts at city council meetings, including 911 calls, fistfights, even a councilwoman being pulled from the room after arguing with protesters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's just a total hazard.
[16:30:00]
We've basically been invaded by strangers, by people that have gotten paid, and they have not communicated with us in any way. This is hurtful, and I'm rethinking where I need to be living at.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUBIO: People need to grow up when it comes to foreign policy a little bit, okay? I don't think it's unusual, frankly, for the three most powerful nuclear-armed nations on Earth, for their leaders to communicate with one another. I think it makes all the sense in the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Grow up. That is Secretary of State Marco Rubio's message to the critics of a proposed trilateral meeting among President Trump, Chinese President Xi Jinping, and Russian leader Vladimir Putin.
The meeting, which was first proposed by Putin and notably would exclude Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, would focus on denuclearization, Trump said yesterday, and not Russia's war with Ukraine.
Ukrainian officials, for their part, argue the sit-down would only, quote, "encourage Putin to continue this war". The talks about a possible meeting come as the U.S.-Ukrainian relationship faces increasing strain over a series of controversies, including the administration's handling of intelligence sharing, sanctions relief, and Ukrainian attacks on Russian energy sites.
President Trump, in the Oval Office today, put the ball in Zelensky's court.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Russia would like to get it done. Ukraine has to want to settle this war. Zelenskyy has to want to settle this war. And if he doesn't, I think it's going to be a very bad thing. American taxpayers are tired of it. We want Zelenskyy to make a deal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Joining me now in THE ARENA, the top Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee, Congressman Adam Smith of Washington.
Congressman, great to see you. Thank you so much for being here.
You heard Marco Rubio there say grow up. What are your concerns? Do you have concerns about a trilateral meeting of this nature?
REP. ADAM SMITH (D-WA): Well, my concern is that Trump has sided with Putin and has shown an affinity for Putin in the Russian-Ukraine war, but across the board.
Look, I mean, broadly speaking, I think it's a good idea for Russia, China, the U.S. to talk about nuclear weapons. You know, three nuclear-armed powers that there are no treaties now. I mean, during the Cold War, we had treaties with the Soviet Union to try to contain what could with nuclear weapons.
So, if the three of them want to get together and have a conversation about that, that kind of makes sense. It's more everything else that Trump is doing, like the comments you showed in the Oval Office there.
Russia started this war, okay? Ukraine is not in a position -- if Putin wanted to end this war, he would end it right now. He could just stop his invasion.
Ukraine is defending their territory. To imply that it's Ukraine's fault that the war continues is, look, insane. It's delusional.
And I think, my opinion, it's because Trump wants to side with the autocrat. He likes the strong man. He likes the kleptocracy. He sort of aspires to -- well, I was going to say he aspires to lead like Putin, but I think he's already kind of doing it.
HUNT: So the president's envoy, Steve Witkoff, met with Zelensky. Now he's set to go to Moscow today.
What role do you think he is playing here? And what does that say about it all?
SMITH: Well, I mean, if you had this comment like 20 months ago, I would have said, well, that's an important step. That's what needs to be done. But he's been doing it for a while to no particular end.
And look, from the very start, the Trump administration screwed this up. Ukraine, thanks to the 54-nation -- well, thanks to two things. One, the 54-nation coalition that Joe Biden helped put together that helped Ukraine defend itself and just the unbelievable courage and tenacity of the Ukrainian people against all odds, they stopped their tracks and continue to do so.
If we really wanted to end this war, we would have built on that and put pressure on Russia. Instead, every single time Trump puts the pressure on Ukraine and gives Putin a pass. I mean, there's no better metaphor for this than Trump rolling out the red carpet for Putin when he showed up in Alaska and then belittling and berating Zelenskyy in the Oval Office way back in, you know, whatever it was last year.
HUNT: Yeah.
SMITH: That is what concerns me.
HUNT: So, sir, let me just pause you because speaking of pressure, putting pressure on Ukraine, this is actually just in some breaking news. So, I'll read it to you. It's "The Wall Street Journal" is reporting this. We here at CNN still are working on it.
But they report this: Elon Musk ordered the slowdown of a military- grade version of Starlink that's relied on by Ukraine. That, of course, is satellite Internet -- a decision that sparked panic in Kyiv and confusion inside the Trump administration, U.S. officials and people with -- familiar with the matter said.
One of the people also claimed that Musk and Trump discussed the matter, prior to the decision to throttle Starlink. But, of course, this only comes from one source, according to "The Journal". Some U.S. officials say Musk acted unilaterally and that Trump didn't specifically order any retribution against Ukraine.
What's your reaction to this?
SMITH: Well, I mean, I think it certainly seems like Musk and Trump decided to weaken Ukraine, put them in a weaker position. Now, why? I mean, I guess they would argue -- well, we want to force them to the bargaining table.
But again, I think it's just Trump siding with Putin and Musk being part of it.
[16:40:03]
And look, do I want to use the F word here? I don't know. Autocrat certainly --
HUNT: It's cable, sir.
(LAUGHTER)
SMITH: Probably fascist, okay?
Trump and Musk are fascists, okay? They think strong men, and certainly in Musk's case, preferably strong white men should rule the world, you know? And so, they're pro-Putin and anti-Ukraine. So, and -- look, this is contrary to U.S. law, what we've passed, the
support we're supposed to be giving Ukraine. I think we should all be deeply worried about it. And that comes back to a central theme for me.
Trump -- his approval rating sitting like 30 percent. It's terrible. He's going to get wiped out in this midterm election.
But I don't think he cares. I think he will still use the power of the presidency to push forward a radical anti-democratic agenda. So, we all have to get serious about how we're going to stop him. Winning the elections is a good first step, but it's going to be insufficient.
HUNT: Do you think Democrats should impeach the president if they take back the House and Senate?
SMITH: Yeah, I think we should try. You know, and -- look, I don't know what it's going to take to convince enough Republicans that Trump is an existential threat to this country and the world. The Iran war, you know, just the way he's running the government.
I mean, look, the basic appropriations process, the basic functioning of the government, he's helped drive the debt up higher than anyone could have possibly imagined.
HUNT: And are all these high crimes misdemeanors?
SMITH: Well, the disobeying of the law, the disobeying of court orders. Yeah. I mean, go back to when he first got into office and he simply decided, despite the fact that Congress had approved all this spending, he chose not to do it. And then over and over and over again, you know, he has gotten court orders and simply ignored them.
There's a -- I forget where it was, "The Washington Post" --
HUNT: Congressman -- yeah.
SMITH: -- as you go about this. But yeah.
HUNT: I don't want to cut you off, but I did want to follow up. I mean, what do you say to -- there are some Democrats that I talked to who behind the scenes will say going down that route, trying to impeach the president again, likely being unable to actually remove him from office, would ultimately make it less likely that Democrats could win back the presidency in 2028 because it would represent overreach.
What do you say to those in your party who are making that argument?
SMITH: I think that's a reasonable political argument and look we're going to have a problem in that we're going to elect a lot of Democrats from red areas and they're going to view that as partisan. They want to focus on cost. They want to focus on other issues. And I get that.
But the thing is Trump is just an unbelievable threat to the country the Iran war goes on, he pays no attention to the law he's got ICE out there terrorizing our communities.
I just -- you know, and I -- how are we going to stop him? What law are we going to pass when he chooses not to obey the law? So, I think we've got a broader case to make.
And certainly, we should focus on how do we bring costs down? How do we deal with all those other issues? But I think we have to be blunt and honest about getting after some of the horrible policies of Trump's going to be difficult because he does not pay attention to the law of the courts.
HUNT: All right, Congressman Adam Smith, always great to have you here in THE ARENA, sir. Hope you'll come back soon.
SMITH: Good to see you, Kasie.
HUNT: Thank you.
All right, ahead here in THE ARENA, electing Democrats as governor used to be the norm in Alabama, but Republicans have had a firm grip on the state since the start of the 21st century. Will that change this year? The Democrat running for the state's top job, former Senator Doug Jones, is here live.
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[16:48:08]
HUNT: All right, soon President Trump will be heading to North Carolina as he continues a midterm campaign swing across a number of states that are really typically considered traditional GOP strongholds. It's a sign Democrats say a blue wave is building.
My next guest, though, comes from a deep red state where the blue wave, not quite up on the shore yet, but we're going to talk to him.
Joining me now, Democratic candidate for Alabama governor, the former U.S. Senator Doug Jones.
Senator, it's great to see you. Thank you so much for being here.
So, talk to me about the state of play in Alabama --
DOUG JONES (D), CANDIDATE FOR ALABAMA GOVERNOR: Thanks, Kasie.
HUNT: -- and the blue wave, because listen, this blue wave is hitting a lot of the South, let's be real.
JONES: Well, you know, look, I don't -- I don't talk in terms of blue waves, red waves, or any kind of color wave. For us, this is a change election. Alabama, and I think the other states in the South, people are generally fed up with both parties. They see that. They want a government that's responsive to them. They do not believe the government in Montgomery, Alabama has been responsive, and they're not seeing a government in Washington, D.C. that's responsive. So, they're looking for change, and that's what we're bringing to the
people of Alabama is the opportunity to have a say haven't had in a long time. And that's what we're seeing on the ground.
You can talk about it and how people are going to vote, but I've said from the very beginning when we started this campaign in December that this was a change election in Alabama, and I still believe it, and I think the voters are going to demonstrate that on November the 3rd.
HUNT: So, if you could point to one thing that's helping to drive this -- I mean, is it just as simple as costs or -- I mean, we can put up some video from, this isn't from Alabama, from Memphis, Tennessee, but this is something that we're seeing across the country with data centers, right? People are very angry about A.I. There were some physical confrontations at some of these meetings over it. You're seeing candidates and other ads, shooting out Flock cameras, for example.
JONES: Right.
HUNT: I mean, what would you point to as the driver of this anger?
JONES: You know, I think it's just literally, Kasie, a frustration with government in general. It's all of the above. It is the Flock cameras, but it is also the affordability and it's the corruption. They see so many things happening that benefit a few, and we've seen that in Montgomery, but that's not benefiting people.
And I think the data center construction is a piece of this. They are concerned about A.I. and the rapid movement of A.I. into every aspect of folks' lives. And things are going on behind closed doors in Alabama.
And so, it's just kind of, it's that combination of things where people are distrusting the government. They want folks that are being responsible for them. So, the data center thing has just exploded onto the election season this time. It is across zip It's across party lines.
But I think it is indicative of a bigger picture and a bigger frustration that people have in their gas prices, in their health care costs. You name it. People are hurting out there and they want answers.
HUNT: Senator, when you look, of course, at this midterm election, I mean, a handful of days later, the presidential cycle is going to start, if not really the day after. And it's wide open, presumably on both sides, but especially on the Democratic side.
If you are looking at and thinking about what kind of person should Democrats put forward to have the best shot to take back the presidency, what kind of person is that?
JONES: You know, I think it's the same kind of people that we're seeing that are offering themselves for public office throughout the South and throughout America, and that is people that want to be responsive. It is not a question of purely of ideology. It's not a question of right or left. It's a question of people that are being responsive, being -- that are out there talking to people, but more importantly, listening to people.
A good example, Kasie, right now we are about to do our 21st town hall since July 1st. Tommy Tuberville has done zero. In fact, every constitutional officer in Alabama has done zero over the last four years.
People want to connect to their public servants. They want to connect to their candidates. People want somebody who is going to be a public servant and not look at an office as self-service. And I think that that's the issue. It is not one-size-fits-all, but I think it's a candidate that's going to be out there, that's going to be listening to people, and we've got a lot of those candidates across the board, especially in the South this year.
HUNT: Do you think that the Republican line of attack on socialism, the Democratic Socialists of America, is that generating the kind of fear they're looking to? Is it helping Republicans? Is it taking hold?
JONES: No, it's insulting to the electorate in Alabama. People in Alabama know me. I've been around for a long time. They know I had Chamber of Commerce record, you know, awards. They've seen my record.
They don't agree with me on everything, but they know I'm not a socialist or a communist. It's just silly. It's fear tactics that are not working.
And one of the reasons it's not working is because that's all that they're talking about. They're not talking about those high gas prices because they can't defend them. They're not talking about health care costs and the lack of healthcare access in rural Alabama because they have no plan and they can't defend what is being done and said out there right now.
So, they're using an old playbook in a different world. And in this world, people are concerned and they're hurting and they want to know how you're going to help them.
You know, I think I may have told you before, I know I've said it many times. You know, Tip O'Neill said all politics is local, where really today all politics is personal, not in a selfish way. People want to know how your candidacy, how you being in office is going to affect their families and their communities.
HUNT: Can I ask you to put your legal hat on for just a second? Senator Elissa Slotkin has been criticized by suggesting -- after she suggested that Congress should use their investigative powers to potentially deter young people from serving in government.
Do you think that's productive?
JONES: I've not heard that particular statement. I've been focused on Alabama. Investigative powers of Congress I think are important. I don't think we should deter anybody from serving in government. I
think we need good people in government. We don't have enough good people in government right now.
We have more people in government that are looking to enrich themselves and we need folks that are true public servants and that's what I want and that's every comment I make to young people. I talk about -- find your niche, find your way and if you want to get involved in politics, do it for the right reason, and that's for public service to serve the public good.
HUNT: If this doesn't go your way, is this the end of your time in public service, or should we not expect that?
JONES: You know, look, I think we're going to wake up on November 4th really happy and starting a transition team.
[16:55:05]
So, I'm not going to work past that just yet.
HUNT: Fair enough.
JONES: We're going to make sure that we get our votes out. We're going to get out there and work hard. So, thanks for having me, Kasie.
HUNT: Thank you so much for coming. It's always great to have you. Really appreciate it. Best of luck. We'll be watching. See you soon.
JONES: Thanks. Take care.
HUNT: All right. You, too.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HUNT: Thanks very much to my panel. I really appreciate all of you being here.
Thanks to you at home for watching.
Don't go anywhere. Jake Tapper is standing by for "THE LEAD".
Hi, Jake. Great interview with Senator Tillis.
