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Interview with Pat Brown

Aired October 11, 2002 - 11:49   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Our Michael Okwu is standing by near this Exxon station, very close to this live picture that we are looking at, courtesy of WTVR. He's with us on the phone as we look at these live pictures -- and Michael, is the news conference held up, do you think, because people are having trouble getting to the scene because of the traffic?
MICHAEL OKWU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I can tell you that we sort of hitched a ride, so to speak, with a police officer who had his sirens blaring, and had it not been for that, we probably would not have made it here as quickly as we did. We know that traffic is backed up for literally miles along I-95 and right into Route 1, which is exactly where the Exxon station is located. So it could very well be that people have been held up from getting to this location.

And also, Daryn, it could also be that he -- this major who is going to give this press conference, is trying to get the latest on the ever-changing situation there. There are just a host of federal agents, I keep saying, at that location. Of course, they are comparing notes among the various agencies as well as the local and the state police personnel, who are here -- Daryn.

KAGAN: All right. We will have you stand by on the scene there at the Exxon station in Fredericksburg, Michael, and again, wait for the news conference.

One thing we do know, unfortunately, that a man was shot and killed, very close to what we're looking at right here, about two hours and 20 minutes ago, taking place at the Exxon station.

We have yet to determine if, indeed, that shooting taking place is related to the previous sniper shootings.

Let's get back to the traffic story, and as they look for this Chevy Astrovan, a white van, one of the reasons they are on high alert as police look for this type of vehicle, witnesses very close to the scene which you're looking at now in Fredericksburg report that after the shooting, they saw a white van trying to make its way out, and bumping other vehicles in an effort to get away from the scene.

As we said, that caused a huge traffic tie-up. Our Pam Kelly, a CNN producer who works out of our Washington D.C. bureau in the middle of that, and Pam, as I understand it, you just went through -- all right, well, we thought we had Pam, but apparently, she's not on the line with us anymore.

Let's go back to the beginning. And once again, 9:30 a.m., Fredericksburg, Virginia, a man shot and killed, he was taken to Mary Washington Hospital in Fredericksburg, but he has been declared dead. No identity on him yet, no age, no other information. But this would be -- could be related to yet another sniper shooting.

We're looking forward to this news conference taking place in Fredericksburg. We thought it was going to start at the bottom of the hour. We will go to it live. Also, at 2:00 p.m. Eastern today, we heard earlier today from Charles Moose, the police chief in Montgomery County, that he plans to come out -- or police officials plan to come out with what they call a graphic aid, supposedly this is supposed to help people in identifying or bringing in more tips to the tip line, what exactly he means by a graphic aid in terms of if it's a geographic location, if it's a picture, if it's a profile of this shooter. He was not very forthright in explaining.

If we have Pat Brown with us, a criminal profiler -- Pat, are you still with us?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: I'm still here.

KAGAN: We appreciate you sticking around, given all the breaking news that we have had this morning.

What you've seen today and the latest shooting in Manassas, again, if we can get back to our discussion about what kind of tips this might bring to the people who are looking for this shooter.

BROWN: Well, one other thought while we were away, and that is, people are trying to decide whether this guy's working or he's unemployed, and if they're looking at a particular person who has a lot of these other behavioral characteristics that have described earlier, that he's a psychopath, and also that he has a car and a gun, they might say to themselves, well, he goes to work every day at 8:00 in the morning, comes home at 5:00. So it couldn't be him.

But keep in mind, folks out there, that this guy could have lost his job and still be pretending to go to work every day, just get up in the morning and leave like he's going to work, and then go on and have his fun and then return at the end of the day. So please don't let that keep you from thinking this could be the guy. He could be unemployed, he could be pretending he is employed, or he could be employed in a job with odd hours where he is coming and going at various times.

Also, the idea that -- as police make different information known about what they're doing, this kind of ups the ante. The shooting at the school in Bowie, Maryland came after police said we're going to have extra tight security at our schools. We're getting word -- and again, we don't know that this latest shooting is related, but for the sake of conversation, as I understand it, there is a police barracks very close to this very Exxon station.

BROWN: It's hard to know if that's coincidental or if this guy doesn't have too much love for the police at the moment, and he just likes to sort of mock them by doing something nearby. It may just be that it was a good location. KAGAN: We keep referring to him as a guy, as a man, as he. Do you think it's a given that this is a man?

BROWN: That's one of the few things in the profile that I'd absolutely bet on. This is just not the type of crime we've seen many women committing in the past, if any at all. And so I -- yes, I would very much -- we at least have a guy here. We know that.

KAGAN: What else would you bet on?

BROWN: Well, I would bet he's a psychopath. I bet he has the gun, and I bet he has a vehicle, and I bet he has connections to Montgomery County and somewhere down close to Spotsylvania, Virginia, and he's on the road a lot. He has to have these things.

He has a power and control issue. He's got to have an obsession with wanting to be the master, as the card left, if that's connected, and we haven't absolutely had proof of that yet, but he wants to be God. I want to control everything. I want to do what I want to. You can't stop me. He's a loser who has lost more recently -- recently has lost more than normal, and this is what has set him off in this direction.

KAGAN: But he doesn't fall into the typical classification of what we have seen previously with either a spree killer or a serial killer.

BROWN: Well, he started a little more unusually, but he is a serial killer, and I want to add this, which is kind of interesting. He is actually going to be an easier serial killer to catch than most serial killers.

KAGAN: How so?

BROWN: Because -- yes. Most serial killers, what they do is they sneak around in the dark, they go into the woods, and kill women or they sneak into their apartments. The kill one woman, and then there's a lot of downtime, sometimes a year, sometimes five years between their killings.

Many serial killers are never caught. As a matter of fact, I would even say the majority of serial killers are never caught. Most sexual homicides, for example, go unsolved.

So most serial killers just go on living their lives out there. This guy has had a lot higher profile by killing so often and so close, and the fact that we do know things about him, that he has a gun and a car, and where he lives. Most serial killers, we haven't got a clue who they are at all.

KAGAN: And just real quickly, I have to ask you about the criticism from Montgomery County Police Chief Charles Moose just two days ago criticizing people just like you, Pat...

BROWN: Right.

KAGAN: ... sorry to say...

BROWN: Absolutely.

KAGAN: ... but professional profilers who come on, and say You know, you're doing a disservice by doing this, and you are not helping the police in their job. How would you respond to that?

BROWN: Well, I would say he's incorrect, and the reason I would say that is what the police should be doing is getting this information out to the public. Never have I heard the police say that this guy is a psychopath. What they are doing is telling the public to call in tips, but they are not giving the public any information to work with.

So people either call in everything that is silly, or they say, I'm not going to turn in Cousin Johnny. Why should I do that, just because he is a little weird, or just because he has a gun. They need to be very specific, at least in what they know. Now, they don't know his race, they don't know his age. They shouldn't go there, that's true. Profilers should not narrow that down.

KAGAN: All right. Pat Brown, professional criminal profiler. Appreciate your input.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired October 11, 2002 - 11:49   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Our Michael Okwu is standing by near this Exxon station, very close to this live picture that we are looking at, courtesy of WTVR. He's with us on the phone as we look at these live pictures -- and Michael, is the news conference held up, do you think, because people are having trouble getting to the scene because of the traffic?
MICHAEL OKWU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I can tell you that we sort of hitched a ride, so to speak, with a police officer who had his sirens blaring, and had it not been for that, we probably would not have made it here as quickly as we did. We know that traffic is backed up for literally miles along I-95 and right into Route 1, which is exactly where the Exxon station is located. So it could very well be that people have been held up from getting to this location.

And also, Daryn, it could also be that he -- this major who is going to give this press conference, is trying to get the latest on the ever-changing situation there. There are just a host of federal agents, I keep saying, at that location. Of course, they are comparing notes among the various agencies as well as the local and the state police personnel, who are here -- Daryn.

KAGAN: All right. We will have you stand by on the scene there at the Exxon station in Fredericksburg, Michael, and again, wait for the news conference.

One thing we do know, unfortunately, that a man was shot and killed, very close to what we're looking at right here, about two hours and 20 minutes ago, taking place at the Exxon station.

We have yet to determine if, indeed, that shooting taking place is related to the previous sniper shootings.

Let's get back to the traffic story, and as they look for this Chevy Astrovan, a white van, one of the reasons they are on high alert as police look for this type of vehicle, witnesses very close to the scene which you're looking at now in Fredericksburg report that after the shooting, they saw a white van trying to make its way out, and bumping other vehicles in an effort to get away from the scene.

As we said, that caused a huge traffic tie-up. Our Pam Kelly, a CNN producer who works out of our Washington D.C. bureau in the middle of that, and Pam, as I understand it, you just went through -- all right, well, we thought we had Pam, but apparently, she's not on the line with us anymore.

Let's go back to the beginning. And once again, 9:30 a.m., Fredericksburg, Virginia, a man shot and killed, he was taken to Mary Washington Hospital in Fredericksburg, but he has been declared dead. No identity on him yet, no age, no other information. But this would be -- could be related to yet another sniper shooting.

We're looking forward to this news conference taking place in Fredericksburg. We thought it was going to start at the bottom of the hour. We will go to it live. Also, at 2:00 p.m. Eastern today, we heard earlier today from Charles Moose, the police chief in Montgomery County, that he plans to come out -- or police officials plan to come out with what they call a graphic aid, supposedly this is supposed to help people in identifying or bringing in more tips to the tip line, what exactly he means by a graphic aid in terms of if it's a geographic location, if it's a picture, if it's a profile of this shooter. He was not very forthright in explaining.

If we have Pat Brown with us, a criminal profiler -- Pat, are you still with us?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: I'm still here.

KAGAN: We appreciate you sticking around, given all the breaking news that we have had this morning.

What you've seen today and the latest shooting in Manassas, again, if we can get back to our discussion about what kind of tips this might bring to the people who are looking for this shooter.

BROWN: Well, one other thought while we were away, and that is, people are trying to decide whether this guy's working or he's unemployed, and if they're looking at a particular person who has a lot of these other behavioral characteristics that have described earlier, that he's a psychopath, and also that he has a car and a gun, they might say to themselves, well, he goes to work every day at 8:00 in the morning, comes home at 5:00. So it couldn't be him.

But keep in mind, folks out there, that this guy could have lost his job and still be pretending to go to work every day, just get up in the morning and leave like he's going to work, and then go on and have his fun and then return at the end of the day. So please don't let that keep you from thinking this could be the guy. He could be unemployed, he could be pretending he is employed, or he could be employed in a job with odd hours where he is coming and going at various times.

Also, the idea that -- as police make different information known about what they're doing, this kind of ups the ante. The shooting at the school in Bowie, Maryland came after police said we're going to have extra tight security at our schools. We're getting word -- and again, we don't know that this latest shooting is related, but for the sake of conversation, as I understand it, there is a police barracks very close to this very Exxon station.

BROWN: It's hard to know if that's coincidental or if this guy doesn't have too much love for the police at the moment, and he just likes to sort of mock them by doing something nearby. It may just be that it was a good location. KAGAN: We keep referring to him as a guy, as a man, as he. Do you think it's a given that this is a man?

BROWN: That's one of the few things in the profile that I'd absolutely bet on. This is just not the type of crime we've seen many women committing in the past, if any at all. And so I -- yes, I would very much -- we at least have a guy here. We know that.

KAGAN: What else would you bet on?

BROWN: Well, I would bet he's a psychopath. I bet he has the gun, and I bet he has a vehicle, and I bet he has connections to Montgomery County and somewhere down close to Spotsylvania, Virginia, and he's on the road a lot. He has to have these things.

He has a power and control issue. He's got to have an obsession with wanting to be the master, as the card left, if that's connected, and we haven't absolutely had proof of that yet, but he wants to be God. I want to control everything. I want to do what I want to. You can't stop me. He's a loser who has lost more recently -- recently has lost more than normal, and this is what has set him off in this direction.

KAGAN: But he doesn't fall into the typical classification of what we have seen previously with either a spree killer or a serial killer.

BROWN: Well, he started a little more unusually, but he is a serial killer, and I want to add this, which is kind of interesting. He is actually going to be an easier serial killer to catch than most serial killers.

KAGAN: How so?

BROWN: Because -- yes. Most serial killers, what they do is they sneak around in the dark, they go into the woods, and kill women or they sneak into their apartments. The kill one woman, and then there's a lot of downtime, sometimes a year, sometimes five years between their killings.

Many serial killers are never caught. As a matter of fact, I would even say the majority of serial killers are never caught. Most sexual homicides, for example, go unsolved.

So most serial killers just go on living their lives out there. This guy has had a lot higher profile by killing so often and so close, and the fact that we do know things about him, that he has a gun and a car, and where he lives. Most serial killers, we haven't got a clue who they are at all.

KAGAN: And just real quickly, I have to ask you about the criticism from Montgomery County Police Chief Charles Moose just two days ago criticizing people just like you, Pat...

BROWN: Right.

KAGAN: ... sorry to say...

BROWN: Absolutely.

KAGAN: ... but professional profilers who come on, and say You know, you're doing a disservice by doing this, and you are not helping the police in their job. How would you respond to that?

BROWN: Well, I would say he's incorrect, and the reason I would say that is what the police should be doing is getting this information out to the public. Never have I heard the police say that this guy is a psychopath. What they are doing is telling the public to call in tips, but they are not giving the public any information to work with.

So people either call in everything that is silly, or they say, I'm not going to turn in Cousin Johnny. Why should I do that, just because he is a little weird, or just because he has a gun. They need to be very specific, at least in what they know. Now, they don't know his race, they don't know his age. They shouldn't go there, that's true. Profilers should not narrow that down.

KAGAN: All right. Pat Brown, professional criminal profiler. Appreciate your input.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com