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The Amanpour Hour

Interview With U.S. Ambassador To China Nicholas Burns; Interview With "The Power Broker" Author Robert Caro; El Salvador: From Murder Capital To Safe Space; Interview With Author Of "Kingmaker" Sonia Purnell; Billie Jean King To Receive Congressional Gold Medal. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired September 21, 2024 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:00:31]

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello everyone. And welcome to THE AMANPOUR HOUR.

Here's where we're headed this week this week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: This week, we examine power and all the ways it affects our lives.

First --

NICHOLAS BURNS, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO CHINA: We're going to compete with China. We're determined to do that.

AMANPOUR: Today's big power conflict between China and the United States. My conversation with veteran diplomat U.S. ambassador to Beijing Nicholas Burns.

Then --

ROBERT CARO, AUTHOR, "THE POWER BROKER": People have always been interested and now they're sort of worried and concerned about this unelected power, unchecked power and the fact that it might be coming for America.

AMANPOUR: The writer who examined a man named Robert Moses who had the power to build and trample over New York. Pulitzer Prize-winning author Robert Caro joins me. Why 50 years on, his seminal book is still flying off the shelves.

Plus.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now it's safe, you know, so people stay in (INAUDIBLE).

AMANPOUR: The deadly power struggle in El Salvador between a strongman president and the criminal gangs and what it all means for the United States.

And then in our letter from London --

SONIA PURNELL, AUTHOR, "KINGMAKER": He unleashed her as his secret weapon.

AMANPOUR: "Kingmaker: from Churchill to Clinton, an Unsung Power Player". The incredible story of ambassador Pamela Harriman.

And from my archive --

BILLIE JEAN KING, LEGENDARY TENNIS PLAYER: He gave us one voice and power.

AMANPOUR: Power to --

KING: Negotiate.

AMANPOUR: Women, sports, and of course, the legendary Billie Jean King, 51 years after she beat Bobby Riggs and founded the WTA.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London.

On this day in 1949, Chinese communist leaders proclaimed the People's Republic of China. 75 years ago, it was one of the world's poorest countries. Today, it's the world's second largest economy, second only to its great competitor, the United States of America which it also rivals militarily.

China now challenges America's role as the world's only superpower. It is also, of course, the battle of ideas, democracy versus authoritarianism of the Chinese leader Xi Jing Ping.

While America's strength lies with global alliances, China has a lock on the continent of Africa, while also courting pariahs like North Korea, Russia, Iran. Tensions over Taiwan and trade keep ratcheting upwards. And yet the issue of China has had little play in the election campaigns of Donald Trump and Kamala Harris.

Nicholas Burns knows a thing or two about tricky diplomacy, with a lengthy career as an American diplomat serving six presidents, nine secretaries of state. He was U.S. ambassador to NATO on 9/11. And now he's ambassador to Beijing, a role that he's compared to being envoy to Moscow at the height of the Cold War.

He joined me from Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Ambassador Nicholas Burns, welcome to the program.

BURNS: Christiane, thank you very, very much. AMANPOUR: I want a temperature check of China and the United States because there was balloon gate, there were all these things, you know, diplomacy came to a screeching halt for a while, and now it's back. The latest arrival in Beijing for talks was Jake Sullivan, national security adviser.

Describe, is it high tension? Or is there a bit of give, is there a bit of thaw?

BURNS: Christiane, we have a very competitive relationship between the United States and China. We disagree on our security rivalry in the Indo-Pacific, on technology, on human rights, trade and investment.

So, we have to negotiate lots of different, very important differences between the countries. I think that's systemic. I think that's with us to stay for many years to come.

We do think that we've been able to stabilize our relationship somewhat because of the flurry of meetings that we've had. And frankly, our ability to create some communications channels at a very high level.

President Biden and Xi Jinping, Secretary Tony Blinken, Secretary Janet Yellen have both been in China in recent months. And you referred to Jake Sullivan, our national security adviser.

[11:04:45]

BURNS: He and I had a series of meetings with the Chinese leadership, with President Xi, with the foreign minister Wang Yi, with the senior PLA officer General Zhang Youxia.

And I think, you know, that builds in some predictability and an ability to communicate when there's tension and when there's disagreement that we did not have before.

So, I would say we have a relatively more stable relationship with China, but it remains a difficult and competitive relationship.

AMANPOUR: What about Taiwan then, because the issue of war is pretty much considered likely only over Taiwan at this point? Has the temperature there cooled? Do you think that issue is -- everybody understands each other or not?

BURNS: I don't think it's cooled. We've seen a higher level of Chinese air and naval activity in and around the Taiwan Strait since Speaker Pelosi's visit, and that was more than two years ago.

And so, we are continuously cautioning the Chinese leadership about making sure that they do not use force to try to resolve the cross- strait differences. We think that China should commit itself to a peaceful resolution of that dispute.

And frankly -- and thankfully, we're not alone in this. You've seen a very assertive position of the government of Japan, the government of the Philippines, the government of the Republic of China -- of Korea -- excuse me, and also the European leadership and members of the European parliaments and national parliaments traveling to this part of the world to make that point.

China asserts the right to use force. We don't think that's just and we don't think that's smart.

And so, what we're trying to do is two things: convince China to resolve the cross-strait differences peacefully, and that's been the American position, Christiane, going back to Richard Nixon's trip here in 1972.

And obviously, provide for a stronger deterrent in Taiwan. That's our legal obligation under the Taiwan Relations Act. And we're doing both things at once.

But I think, frankly, there needs to be international pressure on China for a peaceful resolution of the dispute.

AMANPOUR: But let me ask you about the sort of more, I guess, ideological competition as well. It's also about democracy and an open system versus a closed and more authoritarian system.

But what do you think -- what are you hearing from your Chinese interlocutors about what's happening in the United States where political violence is a matter of fact right now, two attempted assassinations, violent language in public?

Obviously, the Chinese and the Russians are just salivating at the idea of damage to American democracy. What are they saying?

BURNS: Well, we've warned the Chinese leadership in very specific conversations not to interfere with our national elections or our state elections or our county and town elections in the United States. We're watching carefully to make sure that that does not happen.

A second part of the answer, Christiane is, I think the Chinese, at least in terms of what they say publicly, have been somewhat restrained about involving themselves in our election. I think they know that there's -- there is a bipartisan consensus.

There is large-scale Democrat and Republican agreement on the need for us to have a very tough-minded, competitive policy with China, but also, on the engagement side, to make sure that we're talking to the Chinese about climate change. John Podesta was just over in Beijing with me two weeks ago, our climate negotiator.

We're trying to work on the fentanyl crisis here in the United States and getting some help from the Chinese government in doing that.

We obviously want to work on global health issues together.

So, this is a relationship that's incredibly complicated. On the one hand, we have high competition between the two governments. On the other hand, we're the two largest economies in the world.

We have to work together on issues like climate. And I think that's part and parcel of what we're doing with.

We -- the Chinese are intensely interested in what happens in America on November 5th. But we're warning them not to get involved and not to cross a line. And that's a very serious warning indeed.

AMANPOUR: And just one question, follow up on the climate, you know, cooperation that you're trying to get. Why would President Biden then slap tariffs on something like electric vehicles and solar panels from China if he wants to also, you know, push along America's and global climate priorities?

BURNS: The reason the president did that is because we learned a big lesson during the pandemic. We don't want -- no country should want to be reliant on a single source of supply.

And we need to build up in the United States and in other countries of the west, our own capacity on lithium batteries, on solar panels, and on electric vehicles.

And so, China's trying to dump these products unfairly and illegally below the cost of production on the rest of the world.

[11:09:51]

BURNS: And we're not going to let a second China shock to envelop the United States' economy and society. We lost more than a million jobs in the 1990s, the early part of this century. And it's not going to happen again.

I think we're well within our rights to take the actions that we have.

AMANPOUR: Really interesting.

Ambassador Nicholas Burns, thank you for joining us.

BURNS: Christiane, thanks. Always a pleasure to be with you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Coming up later on the show, the power to build and the power to destroy. 50 years since it was first published, I will speak and to author Robert Caro about his still influential book, "The Power Broker".

Also ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Now I feel a little bit silly even having to wear this.

The biggest threat is a slowdown in going to where you need to go because of taking photos and saying hi to people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: El Salvador's transformation from murder capital to tranquil paradise.

[11:10:43]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back.

"The Power Broker" came out in 1974, a rollicking, deeply-researched story of Robert Moses, one of the most powerful, unelected officials in American history.

He amassed a fortune building America's modern toll system and using it to construct many of the highways, bridges, and parks around New York, sometimes at great cost to the communities living there.

So why so much attention and celebration for the book now? Well, it's just turned 50, it sells tons every year, and it's a pop culture phenomenon -- podcasts, viral TikTok videos. The book examines power, its use and abuse, race and inequality, Shakespearian hubris -- it is all there.

And the author Robert Caro, has won a Pulitzer Prize for it, that was in 1975. He tells me that he's amazed as anyone is at his book's long legacy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Robert Caro, welcome back to our program.

And oh, my goodness --

CARO: Great to be here.

AMANPOUR: -- 50 years on "The Power Broker" more popular than ever. How do you account for that?

CARO: I think people are getting -- people have always been interested and now, they're sort of worried and concerned about the unelected power, unchecked power, and the fact that it might be coming for America.

Robert Moses listened to nobody. And he created a form of power where he didn't have to listen to anybody. He could do it the way he wanted.

AMANPOUR: And why did he have that power? Who gave him that power.

CARO: Nobody gave him that power. He created -- excuse me -- the public authority which built bridges and tunnels and collected toll in its modern form.

So he was independent of any elected official and was never elected to anything himself but he has the revenues, the vast revenues.

Every time you put a quarter in the slot in a bridge or a tunnel in New York City, you are basically paying it directly to Robert Moses --

AMANPOUR: Oh yes.

CARO: -- for 44 years.

AMANPOUR: Wow.

So, another thing he did, and maybe this is part of what you're telling me now, he moved, I don't know, tens, hundreds of thousands of people out of their residences in order to build this infrastructure.

Tell me about that and, again, how did he get away with de-homing all these people?

CARO: You know, what you just asked, excuse me, almost nobody knows, but it's astonishing. I was trying to take -- get a number, so conservative that he couldn't argue with me of the number of people that he dispossessed, threw out of their homes, for his expressways and parkways, his bridges, and his parks.

And a very conservative number is 500,000 people, half a million people.

AMANPOUR: Wow. And nobody politically rebelled against that?

CARO: Well, every so often someone, Christiane, would rebel. But the power was in Robert Moses' hands.

AMANPOUR: Let me ask you about the process, because it's always really interesting. And as you know, because you're a part of it, a documentary has been made of you and your long-time editor, the late Robert Gottlieb. He apparently insisted that you remove -- let me count them -- 350,000 words from your draft of "The Power Broker".

How do you feel about that all these years later? What was missing?

CARO: I feel sad. You know, I wrote the book with a million, fifty thousand words. Bob Gottlieb, trying very hard, got the maximum number of words you could get on a page and make it a readable nice page. The maximum number of pages you could get in a book then because they didn't have as good binding as they did now, and that came out to 700,000 words.

So, we had to cut -- we really didn't have a choice of cutting 350,000 words.

[11:19:52]

AMANPOUR: Right.

CARO: Some of those chapters that were cut, I really thought were among the best -- in my opinion, the best stuff I ever wrote. So if you want to know what it was like, it was a sad time.

AMANPOUR: So what's happened to them? Are they in some archive? Do you have them?

CARO: Well, I have huge boxes full of cut pages. I don't know what's in there and what isn't. I've never been able to look.

AMANPOUR: Oh, my God, you still haven't looked at them. Well, somebody needs to look at them because there's another book to be written obviously, or to be published.

I want to play what Lizzie Gottlieb basically said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LIZZIE GOTTLIEB, DIRECTOR, "TURN EVERY PAGE": You know, these books are about very urgent things, they're about how power works in America and the effect of power on the powerless. And they're things that we all really need to learn.

And Bob Caro feels, and I think my father agrees, that unless the sentences are as compelling and riveting as possible, no one will read the books and no one will care.

So, for them, as he says, everything is important, every single detail. And they're very opinionated, and they're very strong-willed, and they each think they're right. And so, they really get into it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: In the end would you say you're at peace with the amount Bob Gottlieb got you to excise from your draft.

CARO: No.

What you really think, you know, if you look at this exhibit that's on now, there are excerpts from a chapter I thought was really about as good as I could write and I've always felt they had the best chapters not in the book.

But the fact was we both realized it had to go. I didn't really want to have two volumes but I was so desperate at some point, I mentioned the possibility of two volumes and Bob Gottlieb says, I might get people interested in Robert Moses once. I'll never get them interested in Robert Moses twice.

AMANPOUR: And finally, Robert Caro, how old are you?

CARO: 88.

AMANPOUR: Oh, my goodness. How do you -- huh?

CARO: Sorry you had to ask.

AMANPOUR: Oh, I know. I'm asking because how do you explain, what is the secret of your vigor? You are vigorous, physically and mentally.

CARO: I have no explanation. I just happen to like writing.

AMANPOUR: Well, we like reading what you write. So keep going.

Robert Caro, thank you so much. CARO: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Amazing man, amazing author.

Coming up on "THE AMANPOUR HOUR", the power of change.

People used to be afraid to walk down the streets in El Salvador's capital. Now, those who fled are flocking back to the city.

[11:22:47]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back.

In El Salvador, a power struggle between the president and the gangs has transformed the country. Thousands of criminals have been put in prison and some constitutional rights like due process have been suspended under emergency measures.

Now the security situation is so different that people are returning even after building new lives over decades in the United States as CNN's David Culver saw for himself.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: On the U.S. southern border, we've seen the desperation and determination of folks trying to get into the U.S. Often fleeing the unimaginable.

DIEGO MORALES, EL SALVADORAN IMMIGRANT: Sometimes you go to sleep and you never know if you're going to wake up.

CULVER: Diego Morales dreamed of a better life, escaping the horrors of El Salvador's brutal civil war.

MORALES: I like United States. I've been here for almost 30 years. So, I can say, you know, also this is my country.

HIRO (ph), IMMIGRANT: I'm Hiro.

CULVER: Hi, Hiro. I'm David. Nice to meet you.

CULVER: He's made Houston, Texas home, starting a business and a family here. But Diego now noticing fewer Salvadorans following his path.

MORALES: Now, it's safe, you know. So people staying over there.

CULVER: Less than a decade ago, El Salvador was labeled the murder capital of the world. Gangs were essentially in charge.

But in the past three to four years, this country has seen a radical transformation. Locals tell us that they finally feel safe enough to be outside.

Which may explain the sharp drop in migrants from El Salvador attempting to enter the U.S.

CBP data shows a 36 percent decrease in Salvadorans crossing the southern border from 2022 to last year, with numbers expected to fall even further this year. But the data only tells part of the story.

We meet Blanca Flores and Victor Bolanos. They fled El Salvador in 2003, leaving their three college-age sons behind.

From all the people you worked with.

Planning to eventually bring them to Colorado. At least that was the plan.

They were able to get their kids through schooling and everything through their work in the U.S.

But after 15 years, the couple lost their asylum claim and was forced to accept a so-called voluntary departure back to El Salvador.

It's a lot of work.

VICTOR BOLANOS, EL SALVADORAN RETURNEE: Yes. 15 years.

[11:29:51]

CULVER: Returning just ahead of the country's pivotal 2019 presidential elections.

37-year-old Nayib Bukele won. And in 2022 declared a controversial state of emergency that is still in effect.

Arresting more than 81,000 people and counting. He's consolidated power, tightened his grip of control and essentially eliminated any political opposition.

And yet Blanca sees Bukele more like a concerned father. Two years ago, the Bukele administration introduced financial incentives for citizens looking to return to El Salvador. The government reports nearly 19,000 Salvadorans have moved back under this program.

And you think the economy will get better because security is better?

BOLANOS: Yes. I think the immigration can stop if you have a job.

CULVER: Human rights groups, though, question Bukele's tactics in cracking down on gangs, alleging widespread abuse and claiming that many innocent people have been swept up in the mass arrests.

But the government stands by its actions, as does nearly everyone we meet here.

HAMILTON FRANCO, SAN SALVADOR RESIDENT AND BUSINESS OWNER: You can imagine how afraid I was that one of my sons was going to be recruited for the gang member or killed.

CULVER: And you think President Bukele saved them from that?

FRANCO: That's right.

CULVER: In some places, the millennial leader and his social media posts are seemingly revered and good for marketing, attracting locals and folks visiting.

JESSICA, EL SALVADORAN RETURNEE: I was like, this can't be the same country. There's no way.

CULVER: Is this your family here? Is this your mom?

JESSICA: This is my aunt.

CULVER: Jessica left as a child with her parents during the Civil War. This is her first time back.

JESSICA: And now, I'm like, kind of sad that I've lost so many years and not have seen my family for like 30 something years.

CULVER: Investors also seeing the potential here. We meet up with one of them, a familiar face.

CULVER: Diego, how are you?

MORALES: Doing good.

CULVER: What a place you have.

Diego Morales in town with his family checking in on his boutique hotel, which opened a year ago on the land his parents once worked but could never afford to buy.

Now, he is the owner.

MORALES: They're here. They can stay here alone. Everything is safe, you know.

CULVER: While some locals make it clear their land is not for sale, the surging prices along the coast are too good for others to pass up.

This used to be gang lookout, basically. They would have scouts who would keep their eyes on --

MORALES: Yes, they call a post, you know. I mean, people were here over there, you know.

CULVER: But now, it's potentially the site of luxury and relaxation.

MORALES: Yes. It's totally different now.

CULVER: During a period of time, the noise that we would hear would be say gunfire.

MORALES: Gunfire.

CULVER: But now, it's construction noise.

New roads, luxury homes and resorts all coming soon. Diego is not the only one in his family who sees the possibilities here.

CULVER: And you could see building a future here.

HIRO (ph): Exactly.

CULVER: His son, Hiro (ph), born and raised in the U.S. An American now looking south for his Salvadoran dream.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: David Culver reporting around El Salvador.

And coming up a story of sex, power and influence, how a behind the scenes kingmaker developed a talent for diplomacy in the 20th century and fostered the special relationship.

[11:33:18]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: And now to a story of power and sex. Behind some of the most consequential figures of the 20th century, one woman played a key, usually unseen role.

Pamela Churchill-Harriman, daughter-in law of Winston Churchill, was frequently dismissed as little the more than a social climber. But nearly three decades after her death, a new biography called "Kingmaker" reveals an amazing tale of subterfuge, seduction, and high society. Harriman would eventually become U.S. ambassador to France.

Author Sonia Purnell joined me to discuss this remarkable woman and the key role she played enabling the special relationship between Britain and America.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Let's start a little bit at the beginning. She was a little bit sort of, you know, wanted to get out of that sort of stultifying life, right, and wanted to get married.

She didn't do very well in the debutante season. And she was pushed towards Randolph Churchill.

PURNELL: It was very much her decision. She was the eldest daughter of a lord in Dorset, quite rural, very remote house.

What she wanted was fun and excitement and she'd taken a very early interest in politics.

Now, at the beginning of the war, she met Randolph Churchill. He asked nine women to marry him. He wanted to sire a son before he went to war. Nine had said no, probably for a very good reason because he was an appalling husband, a brute and a bully, really.

AMANPOUR: And a philanderer.

PURNELL: And a philanderer, and a drunkard, and pretty much anything else you can think of. But Pamela said yes for one very good reason. She saw it as an exit out of Dorset and into high society and the center of power in London. And she succeeded in finding that.

[11:39:44]

AMANPOUR: And do you think she thought that it would lead to what you -- you know, you obviously write about, and that is this close relationship with Winston Churchill, and this very, you know, critical role in trying to get America in on Britain's side, and being kind of at Winston Churchill's side throughout?

PURNELL: Well, she was. And she was also his secret weapon. I think she set out right from the start that she was going to make herself indispensable to Winston Churchill.

Some way had to be found to lure the Americans into the war. And if not short of that, gain their support in the form of planes or weapons or even food and medicines. So, he unleashed her as his secret weapon.

AMANPOUR: Cut to the secret weapon was directed at, as you say, the head of America's Lend Lease program, Averell Harriman, who was dispatched to the U.K., right, by Roosevelt?

PURNELL: Well, she met him and I think it's fair to say fireworks happened. But that was all deliberate. It was part of a strategic sex life.

She had to seduce this guy. She was provided with a beautiful golden skin type dress. She was put next to him at a dinner at the Dorchester Hotel.

And then by the time they got to dessert, she was doing what people came to call her mating dance, which involved a lot of stroking of the forearm, laughing at his jokes.

He was a rather -- he was a tough guy, but quite shy and insecure, and there was this gorgeous aristocrat, you know, soaking up every single word.

There was a very, very bad air raid that night. They went down to his suite in the hotel, which was seen as relatively safe. And I think it's fair to say, without going into too much detail, then her very special war work started that night and went on from there.

Meanwhile, she was, you know, peddling the British line, but also extracting information from them and passing that back to Churchill, to try and establish what later became the special relationship.

AMANPOUR: You call your book, though, "Kingmaker" for a reason.

PURNELL: Well, that's right. I mean, you know, her portrayal, even now, is totally unfair. So, what I've just described wasn't done for fun, although I'm sure there were moments of fun.

It was a strategic campaign. She was only 22 -- 23 when she was doing this. She knew exactly what she was doing. The pressure on her was immense.

But she got the taste for power. She was beside Churchill as he waged a world war.

Eventually, she found that -- and this where the kingmaker comes in -- she found that in the state. She married one American, he died. She then married Averell Harriman that she had seduced all those years before.

He was her entree into Democratic politics. Just really, as the Republicans were taking a very firm grip of the White House. Her job was, how do we get the White House back for the Democrats?

AMANPOUR: Yes. And you did talk to President Clinton, right, about Pamela and I think we have a little bit here of what he acknowledged at Pamela's funeral.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today, I am here, in no small measure, because she was there. She was one of the easiest choices I made for any appointments when I became president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So, he's talking about the appointment as ambassador to France.

PURNELL: Yes, that's right. I mean, as helping, you know, Clinton into the White House, which he has frequently acknowledged and he, as a reward, made her ambassador to France where, again, people expected her just to be a sort of, you know, a socialite, but my goodness, behind closed doors she was anything but.

Bosnia was her big test. She remembered what it was like from the war, what it was like to be in the blitz. She gave birth during an air raid.

She knew the horror and terror of war in a way that these guys that she was working with didn't. They were too young to remember or they'd been born after the war.

She brought a moral compass, if you like, to those negotiations. And she also became super trusted by both President Chirac of France and Clinton back in Washington in a way that's really unusual.

All ambassadors are trying to perform that role. Very, very few, probably numbered on the fingers of one hand, ever quite achieved it in the way that she did.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: And during our conversation this week, Purnell told me that it was really her mission to correct the record about powerful women.

Still ahead the battle of the sexes. A look back at the most watched tennis match in history.

[11:44:17]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back.

One of the tennis world's greatest trailblazers is once again making history Billie Jean King is set to become the first solo female athlete to receive the Congressional Gold Medal. It's the highest civilian honor, and it's for her lifetime of work advancing women's and LGBTQ plus equality in sports and society at large.

And it comes as we mark 51 years his since Billie Jean King beating Bobby Riggs in the most watched tennis match in history. The battle of the sexes changed the face of women's sports forever. And that same year, King founded the WTA and fought for equal pay for women in tennis.

Now, I've interviewed her many times through the years. So from my archive this week, we look back at some of her reflections on that win against Riggs and the power of the WTA.

[11:49:54]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KING: I remember shaking hands at the net afterwards and he said to me, I underestimated you.

I'll never forget that because my dad used to tell my brother and me -- my brother played Major League Baseball. He always told us to respect our opponent and never, ever underestimate them, never so I just couldn't tell my dad.

I said daddy, daddy. He said he underestimated me, just exactly what you tell Randy and me never ever do and always respect your opponent, even if you don't like them.

AMANPOUR: I want to ask you what you think would have happened had you lost, what would have been the impact?

KING: I think it would have been huge. We just had Title 9 passed a year before, the educational amendment, which I think would have gotten weakened.

There were so many things that we have not accomplished. A woman could not get a credit card on her own. I thought I'm a little bit about if we lost, but I thought more about what we could do if we won and I knew that we'd have a much bigger impact and which we did.

I mean, I still have people coming up to me and the one -- the most important thing I think I've heard over the last 50 years is the impact it had on women and their self-confidence. And for the men, for the first time, many of the men thought about their daughters and all of a sudden they said, you know what, I do want my daughter to have equal opportunity with my son.

And I think it really started to change the hearts and minds of people.

It gave us one voice and power.

AMANPOUR: Power to --

KING: Negotiate.

AMANPOUR: For equal pay?

KING: That was obviously for me personally at the top but we had to argue for other things. We got very little money, but by '73 we're starting to get prize money, you know. I did very well because I was winning. That was kind of the top of my career.

But a lot -- most people were not and we really wanted to add term as at lower, lower levels to give more and more women a chance to play and make money.

And the three things why we had this association that any girl born in this world, if she were good enough, would have a place to compete.

Number two, to be appreciated for our accomplishments, not only our looks.

And number three, most importantly, to be able to make a living playing the sport that we loved and had a passion to play. And we want it for others.

And what this did is provided a platform for every single professional woman tennis player, a platform for her to be a leader, to be effective in her community wherever she lived. It could be a village, it could be a town, it could be a country, it could be a continent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: When we come back, power over the aging process? A brand-new film out this weekend, "The Substance" takes aim at society's unattainable beauty standards. A conversation with the filmmaker next.

[11:52:49]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: And finally, how far would you go for power over the aging process? French filmmaker Coralie Fargeat, explores exactly that in her new film, "The Substance".

Described by its lead Demi Moore as "The Picture of Dorian Gray" meets "Death Becomes Her". She stars as an actress clinging to the remnants of fame and relevance. Her character Elizabeth, turns to a black market treatment known as

"the Substance" in order to morph into a younger alter ego.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever dreamt of a better version of yourself?

Younger more beautiful, more perfect.

One single injection unlocks your DNA. And will release another version of yourself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: And what ensues is a gruesome power struggle between the two versions that takes aim at society's unattainable beauty standards.

Well, it's been causing a stir ever since its premiere at the Cannes Film Festival earlier this year, to an unheard of 13 minutes standing ovation.

And I spoke to Coralie Fargeat about the pressure imposed on women and the violence they do to themselves shown through one of the film's captivating scenes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CORALIE FARGEAT, DIRECTOR/WRITER/PRODUCER, "THE SUBSTANCE": That's one of the most emotionally powerful scene of the movie that's really related to the sales hatreds that we are led to develop. She kind of decides that she doesn't deserve to be seen in the outside world.

And I think that what happens, you know, when we develop all those ideas around like beauty standards we're building a jail around us that kind of lock us in.

[11:59:48]

FARGEAT: I wanted to show the violence and the reality of it to hopefully help women, you know, break those jails because I think we need to go out. We need to step out of it and try and really take our place into the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: It is an extraordinary watch. It is body-horror genre. And the film, "The Substance" is out in movie theaters right now.

That's all we have time for this week. Don't forget, you can find all of our shows online as podcasts at cnn.com/podcast and on all other major platforms.

I'm Christiane Amanpour in London. Thank you for watching. And I'll see you again next week.