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The Amanpour Hour

Zelenskyy To Meet U.K. PM Starmer; Update On Pope Francis; Interview With Former British Defense Secretary Ben Wallace; Israel Mourns As Bibas Children And Their Mother Laid To Rest; Interview With "Kyoto" Actor Stephen Kunken; Interview With "Kyoto" Writer Joe Murphy; Bucha Massacre: A Painful Reminder Of Stakes For Ukraine; Some Oscar-Nominated Films Struggle To Find U.S. Distributors. Aired 11a- 12p ET

Aired March 01, 2025 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:00:30]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield in Atlanta.

We begin this hour with this breaking news.

Right now, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is preparing to meet with British Prime Minister Keir Starmer in London. He is there to shore up support with one of Ukraine's strongest allies.

It follows the dramatic collapse of diplomacy when a meeting at the White House Friday turned into a heated exchange between Zelenskyy, President Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance.

Zelenskyy later posted that he believes the U.S. remains a strategic partner despite the incident. He also defended his actions at the White House and says it doesn't have to be a deal breaker.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS CHIEF POLITICAL ANCHOR: Do you think your relationship with Donald Trump -- President Trump after today can be salvaged?

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: Yes, of course. Because it's relations more than two presidents. It's the historical relations, strong relations between our people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Republicans quickly came to Trump's defense. Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, who was in the room, told CNN that Zelenskyy is fully to blame for that breakdown.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: He said he does not think that he owes President Trump an apology for what happened inside the Oval Office today. Do you feel otherwise?

MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I do. I do because you guys don't see -- you guys only saw the end. You saw what happened today. You don't see all the things that led up to this.

COLLINS: But what specifically do you want to see President Zelenskyy apologize for?

RUBIO: Well, apologize for turning this thing into a fiasco for him that it became. There was no need for him to go in there and become antagonistic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Chief international secretary correspondent Nick Paton Walsh is in Kyiv and senior White House producer Betsy Klein is with the president in Florida.

So Nick, to you first, what has been the reaction in Ukraine?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I mean, there is a lot of consternation to this. I think there's a mixture of support and shock that the president, in Ukraine's view, was rounded on in that way and had to defend Ukraine's position to a series of mistruths.

And I think there's also real fear about what this means for the U.S.- Ukraine relationship going forward.

We have heard Zelenskyy very fully talking about gratitude. That was something that Vance rounded on him, saying that he hadn't shown during that particular meeting.

And also now this meeting with European leaders, preceded by a one-on- one with the U.K. Prime Minister Keir Starmer, that I think is a bid to try and piece things back together. And -- but also possibly address a future in which U.S. support isn't really part of this anymore.

Hard to almost say that. It's so key to Ukraine's survival, and also to the concept of the transatlantic security alliance.

We've heard that Keir Starmer has spoken to Zelenskyy immediately after the call. He has also spoken to President Trump and also too, we're hearing from NATO Secretary Mark Rutte, who has said today that he believes Zelenskyy has to fix his relationship with President Trump and the senior American leadership team.

So clearly, a signal in public here from the same European countries that in great length and great publicity, voiced their support for Ukraine immediately after these extraordinary scenes in the White House. Now, I think publicly realizing that they really need to go forward with the Trump administration at their back.

Zelenskyy saying that he believes this can be resolved. We simply have to see what is doable in this European leaders meeting. They really have never had to conceive the notion of their collective security without the United States being with them.

That's not necessarily off the table here. Last week, Trump said that he would have the United Kingdom's back. He has very cordial relations with France's Emmanuel Macron. But Europe's position is so different now to that of the United States.

And there is now a question mark, too, over Zelenskyy himself. It's a personal acrimony, clearly here to some degree. And I think the sounds coming from Trump circle about maybe him needing to step aside is something he's going to have to address very fast, or its going to have to fade into the background or continue to linger as this relationship urgently needs fixing.

[11:04:46]

WHITFIELD: All right. Nick, thank you so much.

Betsy, to you. Republicans, like we heard Rubio, are very quick to fall in line behind Trump and defend him. What else is being said?

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE PRODUCER: That's exactly right. We are hearing from Trump's key allies really praise for the president. He campaigned on ending Russia's war in Ukraine and really would like to make a peace deal. He says he views himself as a peacemaker.

Of course, he started those talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin last week, and then after that, he welcomed President Zelenskyy into the Oval Office, ostensibly a longtime U.S. ally, for talks on ending that war, as well as an agreement to sign a deal on critical minerals.

But of course, those talks devolved, a complete breakdown in diplomacy. And Trump and his Vice President J.D. Vance, they both berated Zelenskyy for not expressing enough gratitude.

The whole thing broke down from there, of course, but after the press departed, Trump and his team, and Zelenskyy and his team retreated to separate rooms where Trump's team really advised him that these talks could not move forward yesterday.

After that, Trump dispatched Mike Waltz, his national security adviser, to talk to Zelenskyy and tell him it was time to go. Here's Waltz reflecting on that moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE WALTZ, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: His ambassador and his adviser were practically, I mean, they were practically in tears wanting this to move forward. But Zelenskyy was still argumentative.

And finally, what I said, I said, look, Mr. President, time is not on your side here. Time is not on your side on the battlefield. Time is not on your side in terms of the world situation. And most importantly, U.S. aid and the taxpayers' tolerance is not unlimited.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KLEIN: Now plans for a lunch, that deal signing and a press conference were scrapped. And President Trump now says that Zelenskyy doesn't want to make peace.

Of course, all of this comes as U.S. support for that war and for Zelenskyy is waning. And what we are seeing more broadly is Trump dramatically reimagining the role of the U.S. in the world, the role of alliances.

So, so many questions here as Nick laid out. Where do we go from here? Is it possible for Zelenskyy to salvage that relationship? Where -- what is the future of U.S. aid for Ukraine?

And diplomats say that tense talks like this between world leaders are totally normal, happen all the time. What's not normal is that this happened in full view of the White House press corps, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Betsy Klein, Nick Paton Walsh also, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

All right. An update now from the Vatican this morning.

Pope Francis had breakfast and read the newspaper following a quiet night. This comes after he was placed on a breathing machine Friday for a sudden respiratory episode, complicated by vomiting.

CNN's Christopher Lamb is in Rome, where a spokesperson noted the Pope is not considered out of the danger. What's happening?

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right, Fredricka.

He's not out of danger. And yesterday there was a setback really, for the Pope with this sudden worsening of his respiratory condition.

We were told the Pope had a bronchial spasm. He vomited and inhaled that vomit, which needed to be aspirated. And then he was hooked up to a breathing device to help ensure that he could breathe better basically, to have that oxygen that he needed.

The Pope, of course, is in hospital with pneumonia. He's 88 years old. He's been in the hospital since February the 14th. He's in his 16th day of hospitalization.

It's clearly a worrying, concerning time at the Vatican, but there is hope that the Pope will improve. And that yesterday was an isolated incident.

We are expecting an update from the Vatican in the coming hours. A Vatican source yesterday saying that the next 24 to 48 hours will be crucial in determining whether the Pope's condition has worsened or not.

Behind me in Saint Peter's Square, people are gathering to pray for the Pope's health each evening, and tonight they will be gathering again to pray the Catholic prayer of the rosary for Pope Francis' health. They'll be gathering to actually tonight in Saint Peters Basilica rather than the Square, because of the bad weather here in Rome.

But we are following developments closely, and we'll bring them to you as soon as we get them, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Christopher Lamb, thank you so much for that.

I'm Fredricka Whitfield, thanks so much for being with us. We'll have much more at the top of the hour.

THE AMANPOUR HOUR starts right now.

[11:09:32]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to THE AMANPOUR HOUR.

Here's where we're headed this week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My administration is making a decisive break with the foreign policy failures of the past administration.

AMANPOUR: Zelenskyy joins a parade of European leaders at the White House this week, wheeling and dealing over the security of Ukraine and the whole continent.

Then with the future of the U.S.-European alliance on the line, Britain's former defense secretary Ben Wallace on what happens if you're played by Putin.

[11:14:47]

BEN WALLACE, FORMER BRITISH DEFENSE SECRETARY: Putin knows us. He looks at our words and no action and just thinks were all hot air.

AMANPOUR: And -- grief and pain as Israel buries the Bibas family finally at home.

Plus --

STEPHEN KUNKEN, ACTOR, "KYOTO": I think we can all agree on one thing. The times you live in are truly awful.

AMANPOUR: Behind-the-scenes thriller "Kyoto" brings the high stakes drama of climate diplomacy to the London stage. I speak to writer Joe Murphy and actor Stephen Kunken.

JOE MURPHY, WRITER, "KYOTO": The first time that the world agreed unanimously to do Unanimously to do something about climate change to reduce carbon emissions. And it felt to us like a kind of romance story, in a way.

AMANPOUR: Also ahead, from my archives, Bucha and what remains.

And finally, the Oscars this weekend, the inexplicable inability of one contender to find a U.S. distributor.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London.

The Oval Office catastrophe between Zelenskyy and Trump could very well herald a major turning point in America's global alignment. The week had begun with European leaders going to Washington to save the transatlantic alliance and Ukraine from Donald Trump's belief that the world's only superpower is being taken advantage of.

But the relationship has always gone both ways. NATO invoked Article Five to defend the United States after 9/11. Europe and other allies supported America in Afghanistan and both Iraq wars. And under Trump 2.0 they plan to step up now as the U.S. pulls back. Germany's new chancellor said the unthinkable, that Europe may even have to consider becoming independent of the U.S.

But this week, the British Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer, made the case at the White House for an even stronger special relationship. He came bearing an increase in U.K. defense spending and a big ask. Don't abandon Ukraine.

Would it be enough? I spoke to Ben Wallace, who is Britain's former defense secretary when Putin invaded Ukraine three years ago. We spoke before Trump told Zelenskyy that he was gambling with World War III, repeating Putin's saber-rattling.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Do you believe, given all your experience, that Europe can be unified, that it can take on this task, which has now become an existential task for Europe?

WALLACE: I think the message to all the European leaders is stop talking and do it. I mean, just -- if you really want to, change your culture, cut something else in your public spending, and focus on lifting your defense spending.

And indicate to the Russians that you aren't going anywhere and that you are going to defend both Ukraine and indeed invest in your own defense capability. That's the best deterrence of all, an indication and an action.

Putin knows us. He looks at our words and no action and just thinks we're all hot air. And so, we can do it if we want to.

Now, the problem is I'm not yet sure if we are prepared to put our money where our mouth is, both in the U.K. and elsewhere. And that is the -- that's the sign where people like Donald Trump and Putin say, see, I told you, they don't care.

The most important thing for Russia is that you have an armed forces that's lethal. We can all have a First World War army with just bayonets and rifles, but you need to be lethal. You need to be able to deter your enemy because you can inflict violence on them at, in your defense or in offense.

And that's fundamentally where we've slightly lost the way in defense reform areas. We've focused on, you know, I used to call it top trumps, you know, that card game, you know, I've got more than you in numbers, but that used to come in our falling budgets that have happened since 1991 under both Labour and Conservative.

Behind the numbers, we were hollowing out ammo stocks, enablers, sensors, electronic warfare, signals, all the things you need in a modern battlefield.

AMANPOUR: So that's what I'm saying, can that be changed overnight?

WALLACE: It can't be all -- no, it can't all be changed overnight. But you can certainly make sure you start to invest. And what we shouldn't forget is that the sad thing about Monday was, a, it marked the death --

AMANPOUR: Monday, the -- yes.

WALLACE: Monday -- the third anniversary of the invasion of Ukraine.

AMANPOUR: And the U.N. vote.

WALLACE: The sad thing about that was absolutely suffering, the Ukrainians have suffered at the hands of an illegal Russian invasion.

But let's not also forget, on that day, Putin sent to their deaths -- well, started to -- and injury 800,000 of his young men for nothing more than ego.

And so, he doesn't actually have much of an army now, at the moment. It will take him about two years to rearm, reinvigorate that army.

So, we have some time in the land forces to continue the modernization that I started as defense secretary.

I think the reality is Donald Trump, at one level, wants to prove to his electorate, who's just sent him to the White House, I got something back, right?

[11:19:44]

AMANPOUR: What went through your mind when you watched the U.N. Security Council vote? Has there ever been such a vote where the United States votes alongside Russia, North Korea, Belarus and other West African juntas, including also by the way, Israel was always -- also part of it, against a U.N. General Assembly resolution condemning the aggression?

WALLACE: We are in a new era. How long the era lasts, I think is up for grabs.

You know, fundamentally, Donald Trump won the election with 30 percent of the vote -- of the total vote. He got about, I think, 49 percent of the electorate that turned out.

You know, Donald Trump, like all of us, are here today, gone tomorrow politicians, right? You know, whoever occupies the White House doesn't indefinitely represent the United States. We all come and go. Same for number 10, same for the Elysee Palace.

AMANPOUR: You're a former military person yourself. And we will hope to have you back as these progresses.

Ben Wallace, thank you so much indeed, former U.K. defense secretary.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Up next, as Gaza's future hangs in the balance, the painful price of this war for Israelis as Shiri, Kfir and Ariel Bibas finally returned home to be buried.

[11:20:55]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back.

Now there was some laughter, a lot of embarrassment, and mostly shock and horror at a post on Donald Trump's Truth Social this week, an A.I.-generated video of his Gaza Riviera dream with a Trump tower featuring himself and Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu on lounges by the sea and Elon Musk eating hummus.

For Palestinians, it was a grotesque and dangerous reminder of Trump's threat to expel 2 million Gazans for a real estate project at a time when the next stage of the cease fire is in doubt.

Families in Gaza say up to 9,000 bodies are still feared buried under that rubble. While Netanyahu's coalition again talks of more war to, quote, "destroy Hamas".

Israel this week received the bodies of a family that has become the most heartbreaking symbol of the horrors Hamas inflicted on October 7th.

The Bibas family -- the mom Shiri, and her two infant sons, Kfir and Ariel Bibas -- were finally buried at home.

Jeremy Diamond reports from Tel Aviv.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: His voice trembling with emotion, Yarden Bibas summons what strength he has left to say one final goodbye. His wife Shiri and their two children, Kfir and Ariel, are finally

being laid to rest 16 months after they were all abducted from their home near the Gaza border.

"Apricot," Yarden says, calling his wife by her pet name, "who will help me make decisions without you? Do you remember our last decision together? In the safe room I asked if we should fight or surrender, you said fight, so I fought. Shiri, I'm sorry, I couldn't protect you all."

Yarden was also taken hostage on October 7th, but held separately. Now, just weeks after regaining his freedom, heartbreak.

"I'm sure you're making all the angels laugh with your silly jokes and impressions," he says, to his eldest, Ariel. "I hope there are plenty of butterflies for you to watch, just like you did during our picnics."

"Kfir, I'm sorry I didn't protect you better, but I need you to know that I love you deeply and miss you terribly. I miss nibbling on you and hearing your laughter."

Yarden Bibas is not alone in his grief. An entire nation joined in mourning the deaths of the youngest Israeli hostages and their mother, who came to symbolize the horrors of October 7th.

Their bodies carried to their final resting place in a single casket, surrounded by Israeli flags and the orange balloons evoking those red- headed babies.

Thousands of Israelis have been lining this entire procession, as we now see these vans coming through carrying the bodies of Kfir, Ariel and Shiri Bibas, their mother.

As Shiri, Kfir, and Ariel are laid to rest, their family are not done asking questions.

"Our disaster as a nation and as a family should not have happened and must never, ever happen again," the boys' aunt Ofri says.

"They could have saved you, but preferred revenge. We lost. Our image of triumph will never happen."

As one hostage family buries their loved ones, another reuniting. After 491 days of captivity, Or Levy is back in his brother's arms.

MICHAEL LEVY, BROTHER OF OR LEVY: He's getting stronger. He's finally eating.

DIAMOND: His brother Michael now sharing what he has learned about why he emerged emaciated from Hamas captivity.

LEVY: They were intentionally starved. It's as simple as that. They're -- the terrorists next to them ate all the time. They ate next to them.

DIAMOND: Really?

LEVY: Yes.

DIAMOND: Next to them.

LEVY: Next to them. They even laughed when they saw them looking.

DIAMOND: So their captors were eating full meals.

LEVY: Full meals.

DIAMOND: And what were they getting?

[11:29:50]

LEVY: Chicken, meat. They had everything. They were getting nothing.

DIAMOND: Those conditions now driving both brothers to push for the urgent release of the remaining hostages.

LEVY: He is right now concentrated on two things. One is Almog, his son, getting back to being a father. The second is to bring back all the hostages.

DIAMOND: Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Tel Aviv.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Up next, climate negotiations take center stage here in London in a play, "Kyoto", which brings wit and humor to the real-life drama and high stakes of climate change negotiations.

I speak to actor Stephen Kunken and writer Joe Murphy about this timely piece when we come back.

[11:30:38]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back.

The energy giant BP announced this week that it would cut investments in renewable energy and focus instead on oil and gas. It comes as the U.S. President embraces fossil fuels, rolls back decades of climate policies, and withdraws the U.S. again from international agreements like the Paris Accords.

But way before Paris, there was Kyoto, the first global treaty that set the stage for the world to cut carbon emissions. Now, the London play of the same name brings the behind-the-scenes drama of that landmark 1997 deal to the stage.

With a dash of some much-needed humor, it captures the chaos and the compromise of global diplomacy.

I went to the set to talk with actor Stephen Kunken and writer Joe Murphy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Joe Murphy, Stephen Kunken, welcome to the program.

So, first I want to ask you, what was the, you know, inspiration? Because you've done a lot of very timely and political plays. Why this?

MURPHY: You know, we live in a -- in a society of culture wars, of entrenched polarization. And how do you write something that speaks to that as a problem?

So we were searching for stories about agreement. And it was it was through that lens that we came to Kyoto, which you know, back in 1997, the first time that the world agreed unanimously to do something about climate change to reduce carbon emissions.

And it felt to us like a kind of romance story, in a way, something -- something beautiful, something that would be an important thing to strive towards, especially in the times that we live in.

AMANPOUR: Stephen, you played Don Pearlman, who is a real life, Reagan-era oil lobbyist, and he's the narrator. And it didn't seem like a rom-com to me. I mean, it's a bit of a thriller, very fast paced, very humorous. How did you approach basically being the baddie?

KUNKEN: Well, it's a great question.

I don't think baddies think of themselves as baddies. I think that everybody tries to find their own music and their own path forward. And Don is clearly in integrity with his own ideas and provides zealous representation for his clients.

Whether or not he falls on the right side of history or ideas, I think is for other people to determine. But I -- I was looking for something that is as a -- as an actor that really started to deal with how do we get through this time period. How do we find commonality with people that we find distasteful? I wanted to try to get inside of people who I found their ideas disagreeable and see if I could find connective tissue with them.

AMANPOUR: So that's interesting. This play was written before Trump won, where there was actually some hope, whether it's the Biden administration, whether it's the E.U. who out of COVID had had really made a green economy, the agenda.

So, I mean, when you were writing it, there was -- were you hopeful?

MURPHY: Gosh, that's a really good question. I think we were actually, to be honest, slightly fearful. We were fearful of -- that The election may go the way that it eventually did.

And we were trying to, I suppose, to contribute to the dialectic of a different side of the argument and go, we've got to understand where these people are coming from. We have to understand our opponents And in the creation of society.

So we have to get to what the nub of this argument is. And I think it's something like what Trump is offering is a kind of short-termism that is attractive and avoids the complexity of the challenge.

And we know that we cannot do that any longer, but we have to provide a language to people that persuades them that doing something complicated is better than doing something -- than ignoring the problem.

And hopefully the play admits to the complexities of climate change and of political polarization, and can welcome an audience of all different political persuasions.

AMANPOUR: I mean, this play might have not been a protest play had Kamala Harris won, you know, "The Jungle" or "The Handmaid's Tale", which you were in. Might not have been so incredibly difficult to bear had Hillary Clinton not lost when you were playing. and Trump had won with all his, you know, misogyny and all the rest of it.

[11:39:48]

AMANPOUR: Let's just go back to "Handmaid's Tale", because again, it's a real issue, the rights of women. And you can see with the new quote- unquote, "manosphere" with the, you know, bros with all these people from Mark Zuckerberg to, I don't know, of course, Donald Trump. I mean, it's what Margaret Atwood foretold.

Tell me what it was like to play that when you thought maybe Hillary was going to win. And then when she didn't and all of that progress was rolled back and is now being rolled back, a lot of it.

KUNKEN: It's hard. It's invigorating to work on those things. It's interesting though, because we went through an entire cycle in the six years that we made that show. We had the moment of protest, and then we came back out and we thought, wow, we -- something was achieved here.

These voices were heard. We saw those red outfits, those crimson clothes appear outside of Congress, and we were making an effect. And then the show was just wrapped and we're in a different world again.

And I think one of the pieces of solace that we can take in this moment is that time is long. You hit a certain age, I think, where you look at -- you look at the cycles and things will change. There is hope.

The arc of this is going to be long. This is a problem that another generation is going to have to deal with. How do we help that generation to have the tools to deal with it? And art is a very powerful educating mechanism.

AMANPOUR: But on that hopeful note, it is generational, this struggle.

Stephen Kunken, Joe Murphy, thank you so much.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: And "Kyoto" is now still playing in London, and the creators' hope to take it to New York and elsewhere.

As the science tells us, the window to prevent catastrophic warming is closing fast.

Coming up from my archive, a painful milestone for the victims of Russia's worst atrocities in Ukraine -- Bucha, when we come back.

[11:43:41]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back.

This week marked three years since the Russian invasion of Ukraine, and Trump this week said, quote, "I get tired of listening to it" about Putin getting the blame for the atrocities committed by his own Russian army.

The Ukrainian people are sick and tired as well, but they are also still dying in this unprovoked war and they cannot forget the ordinary civilians, the victims of wanton brutality, mass rapes, pointblank executions, torture. All amounting to war crimes, according to the experts.

Nowhere more so than in the suburbs around Kyiv like Bucha, as Ukrainians stop the mighty Russian army from capturing their capital.

Last year, I returned to that traumatized town to see how it was coping. From my archives, here's that report. Of course, it is harrowing to watch even now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Father Andriy Halavin of St. Andrew's Church walks me through Bucha's grisly place in history. Hundreds were brutally killed here during Russia's month-long occupation, including women, children, the elderly.

FR. ANDRIY HALAVIN, ST. ANDREW'S CHURCH: 99 years old.

AMANPOUR: Oh, my God. 1923 to 2022. Ninety-nine years old and a child of two years old.

"These people died not during the fighting, but during the occupation," says Father Andriy, when the Russian world came here. And this is its face. These are corpses. These are rape people. This is every apartment and house looted. This is the face of the Russian world."

HALAVIN: On this place, two truncheons.

AMANPOUR: Father Andriy became known after the Russians were pushed back for revealing the site of a mass grave just here on his church grounds, filled with 160 people.

He shows me the original posting about it on Facebook, March 12th, 2022, when Russian forces were still occupying Bucha.

And from this memorial, you can see that red house. Most of the family was killed as they tried to flee when the Russians turned a heavy machine gun on their car. It still haunts and horrifies the grandmother, Valentyna Chekmarova.

"It's very hard for me to remember this. Two years have passed, and it seems like it happened today," she says. "I saw them off to get out of this hell, but they didn't. They were shot."

This is the fate they were trying to escape. The main street, Yablunska, in this residential Kyiv suburb, strewn with bodies, all clearly civilians. The discovery of basement torture and execution centers. People forced to kneel and lie with hands tied behind their backs. Women and girls raped.

TETIANA USTYMENKO, RESIDENT OF BUCHA (through translator): How could this happen? How could this happen?

AMANPOUR: Standing in Yablunska Street today feels a little like standing in a graveyard. It's where the horrors of the Russian invasion were first exposed. And it remains a field of evidence, a memorial and a pilgrimage site.

ZELENSKYY: We believe that these are war crimes and this all would be recognized as a genocide by the world.

[11:49:50]

AMANPOUR: President Zelenskyy came here April 4th, 2022 right after his forces drove the Russians out. And he brings all his international visitors and world leaders to Bucha to remind the world just what they're fighting against.

Moscow has claimed without evidence that this was all staged and was a planned media campaign.

Ruslan Kravchenko was the war crimes prosecutor. He's now governor of the Kyiv region.

"Do you remember when the Russians said it was fake and the bodies were fake and that the Ukrainians had killed people themselves," he asked me. "When we seized the phones, we proved to the whole world that it was the Russians who killed people, Ukrainians."

Ruslan says the war crimes investigations continue, using a trove of evidence from multiple cameras, phones and other recordings. But when they inform the Russian soldiers they identify, they don't cooperate.

And Father Andriy tells us the awful truth is that bodies are still being discovered today, two years on.

"From time to time, we find someone by accident," he says. "The Russians had hidden their bodies somewhere and we find them. So unfortunately, the number of people who died is increasing."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: That was a year ago in Bucha, and no amount of trying to change history and change the truth is going to take away from what actually happened there. It remains a painful but vital reminder of what Ukraine continues to fight against, and why Zelenskyy insists there has to be a just peace, not any old deal.

When we come back, it's been nominated for best documentary at the Academy Awards on Sunday, but "No Other Land" is still struggling to find a U.S. distributor. My conversation with the Palestinian and Israeli duo who made it. That's up next.

[11:51:46]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: And finally, we turn to the Oscars this weekend. But some of the finest films nominated have struggled with financing and finding U.S. distributors. No accident that they shine a light on the very real, often painful, and often hard political truths of the day like "No Other Land", which has been nominated for best documentary. It tells the powerful story of villages in the Occupied West Bank that have long been subjected to forced evictions and demolitions by settlers and the Israeli government.

Israeli forces recently deployed tanks into the West Bank for the first time in two decades, escalating a military campaign that's already killed dozens and displaced tens of thousands of Palestinian residents.

But the film is a story. It's about people and their homes, and it was made by a young Palestinian activist and filmmaker Basel Adra, and by the Israeli journalist Yuval Abraham, who had been reporting for Israeli papers about what was going on in Basel's village.

When the film came out, I spoke to them about making this documentary and about the accusations of anti-Semitism that both of them faced.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YUVAL ABRAHAM, CO-DIRECTOR, "NO OTHER LAND": The word anti-Semitism carries a lot of weight for me. Like my grandmother was born in a concentration camp and most of my family was murdered in the Holocaust.

And today, like, sadly, anti-Semitism is on the rise. It's on the rise among the right wing. And it's also shamefully on the rise among the left. And because of that, it's very important that this word will not be used to silence real and legitimate criticism of Israel's occupation or of Israel's, you know, horrendous policies. And all around the land. And when people use this word not only to silence Palestinian critics,

but also Israelis like me who believe, you know, that what is going on is wrong, they are emptying it out of -- out of meaning.

And precisely because we should care about anti-Semitism. And this is -- this is -- this is -- this is even more dangerous. And I think it's literally putting Jewish lives as well, in danger.

AMANPOUR: And finally, to you, Basel, this film is called "No Other Land. You have no other land to live on. So what is your future? What is the status of your village right now?

BASEL ADRA, CO-DIRECTOR, "NO OTHER LAND": The status of our -- of my village and Masafer Yatta and so many Palestinian villages in what's so-called Area C, it's really under so much attacks, and we are losing a community after another community.

We are, as Palestinians today, very, very powerless and very worried and afraid for our future. With what we are facing today, as from all this brutality and massacres and killing.

And the international community should stand for its responsibility and should defend the international law and should, like, stop this from going on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So a brave story that's been recognized by the Oscar nominating process. Now, according to the U.N., more than 40,000 people have been forced to flee their homes in the Occupied West Bank since the ceasefire came into force in January.

Aid agencies are calling it the largest forced displacement of Palestinians in the West Bank since it was captured by Israeli forces in the 1967 six-Day War.

[11:59:47]

AMANPOUR: That is all we have time for. Don't forget you can find all of our shows online as podcasts at CNN.com and on all other major platforms.

I'm Christiane Amanpour in London. Thank you for watching and I'll see you all again next week.