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The Amanpour Hour

Interview with Iranian Deputy Foreign Minister Majid Takht- Ravanchi; Interview with Author Vali Nasr; When There Was Hope for Change in Iran; Interview with Movie Director Wes Anderson; Berlin Pays Tribute to Christo. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired June 21, 2025 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:59:43]

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. And welcome to THE AMANPOUR HOUR.

Here's where we're headed this week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MAJID TAKHT-RAVANCHI, IRANIAN DEPUTY FOREIGN MINISTER: If the Americans decide to get involved militarily, we have no choice but to retaliate.

AMANPOUR: My exclusive conversation with the Iranian deputy foreign minister on how it could respond to U.S. involvement and still holding out hope for nuclear negotiations once this war is over.

Then if regime change is also Israel's goal. Who is waiting in the wings to take over? I speak with former State Department adviser and Iran expert Vali Nasr.

Also ahead, from my archive, we look back at a moment of hope inside and outside Iran for a peaceful transition to freedom and stability. Dreams well and truly dashed in the intervening years.

And then later in the show.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Call it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Heads.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Heads.

AMANPOUR: A cultural reprieve with the extraordinary director, Wes Anderson. How his movie making just can't escape his signature style.

WES ANDERSON, DIRECTOR, "THE PHOENICIAN SCHEME": Every time I release a trailer for the next one, the first thing I hear is you could tell it was me in the first 10 seconds and I've had to accept that that is simply true.

AMANPOUR: And finally, a monumental recreation. Germany is rewrapping the Reichstag in honor of larger-than-life artist Christo.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London where here and around the world fears mount of a wider war and fallout from the attacks on Iran as Israel keeps up both its bombing campaign and the one to bring in the United States. President Trump has reviewed plans to attack Iran, but has not yet made that decision.

Meantime, Iran is retaliating, piercing Israel's Iron Dome with ballistic missiles and causing destruction.

In today's program, we get the first senior Iranian reaction to this crisis and also look back at the road leading to this confrontation and whether it could ever have been avoided.

First, my exclusive interview with the Iranian deputy foreign minister, Majid Takht-Ravanchi, speaking from Tehran, the capital under bombardment, Ravanchi told me that it will not surrender as Trump demands, but is willing to get back to the negotiating table.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Deputy Foreign Minister Ravanchi, thank you for joining us on the program.

TAKHT-RAVANCHI: Thank you. Good to be with you.

AMANPOUR: OK. Tell me what is going on. What has been damaged? How close to your headquarters? What can you tell me exactly about what's happening right now?

TAKHT-RAVANCHI: We have been witnessing an act of aggression, a clear case of naked aggression against Iran and the Iranian people. We were about to start new rounds -- new round of talks with Americans on Sunday, that was 15th of June. And two days before we were attacked by the Israelis in the middle of the night.

They attacked residential areas. They attacked paramedics. They attacked, you know, citizens who are just sleeping in their homes. They attacked our university professors. So, this is a crime against humanity, pure and simple.

AMANPOUR: OK. Let me get to a few things. Clearly you must be concerned. You must be worried that more leadership targets will be hit. You have -- what we -- the supreme leader, your ruler there, Ayatollah Khamenei, the ayatollah, has come out and said that they will -- you will never surrender in response to Donald Trump.

But I understand also that things are pretty bad for you and that you have tried to reach out to the U.S. and to Israelis to try to get some kind of negotiation track -- back on track. Is that true?

TAKHT-RAVANCHI: No, that's not true. I do not share your assessment. We are not reaching out to anybody. We are defending ourselves. Although, we have always promoted diplomacy, but we cannot negotiate under the threats. We cannot negotiate while our people are under bombardment every day.

So, we are not begging for anything. We are just defending ourselves. And we have an experience of eight years of war against Saddam's aggression back in 80s. And now, we are defending ourselves against Israeli regime, which is being helped by Americans, which is being protected by Americans and some others.

AMANPOUR: As you know, the Israelis are much more sophisticated and powerful than Saddam Hussein ever was. That was some 40 years ago. This is a much bigger order of magnitude.

[11:04:44]

AMANPOUR: As you know also, President Trump is publicly weighing whether to join the strikes and whether specifically to hit, for instance, the very deeply buried Fordow facility with the very big bombs.

Do you -- what do you think? What are you reading? Do you think the Americans will get involved and what would your response be?

TAKHT-RAVANCHI: We don't know. If the Americans get involved, you know, directly, definitely we -- our hands will not be tied. We'll do whatever necessary to protect our people and our interest.

The Americans have been collaborating with the Israelis. Although, they have said it that they do not have anything to do with this conflict, which is not true. But if they decide to be engaged militarily, direct military involvement in this massacre, definitely we will do whatever necessary to protect ourselves.

And by the way, Fordow is another protected site based on IAEA rules. So, that will be another instance of, you know, a crime which is being done unfortunately by Israelis and Americans, which is prohibited under international law.

AMANPOUR: President Trump has apparently told allies and friends that he felt he was being played by the Iranian government. That there was no, you know, willingness or immediate prospect of you agreeing to the conditions of -- you know, of a negotiation.

He said he gave you 60 days. And on day 61 you still hadn't come. Why? Why didn't you agree to the terms and do you believe you had a 60-day deadline?

TAKHT-RAVANCHI: No, nobody can put any deadline on us. You know, when we negotiate something, you know, the two sides have to agree on the timetable of the negotiations. This is point number one.

Number two is that we really doubt the sincerity of the Americans in the course of five rounds of discussions that we had. We had good discussions. And at the last round, we were given, you know, some document by the foreign minister of Oman. And apparently, both sides felt that that was a good document to be worked on for the next round.

But before the next round started, two days before the next round started, the aggression took place. So, this is a betrayal of diplomacy. This is the betrayal of our trust to Americans.

We should be the ones who should criticize the way that we were treated by the Americans, not vice versa.

AMANPOUR: Ok.

TAKHT-RAVANCHI: In fact, no deadline is going to affect our way of negotiations. And then, we'll do whatever necessary to protect ourselves.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: We'll hear more from Ravanchi about Iran's nuclear potential after a short break.

And later on the show, from my archive, the road to here and the missed opportunities along the way.

[11:07:52]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back.

Now for more of my exclusive conversation with the Iranian deputy foreign minister where I ask him about the country's nuclear potential and how badly the recent strikes have damaged Iran's military.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Let me ask you this, because it is clear and we can see it, that a lot of your military capability has been degraded. It is clear.

They say that they have control of the skies, and they're even reporting that fewer and fewer missiles are getting in to Israel. There -- even the defense minister is saying that they might, you know -- as he says it, release the population to go back to work and to come under -- out of their shelters.

But I want to ask you this, why did you surge production of 60 percent uranium to the point that you have right now between Trump's inauguration and now?

Back then you had maybe a five-to-six-weapon capacity if you had decided to, now a 10-weapon capacity with these 400 kilos of 60 percent uranium. Why did you do that?

TAKHT-RAVANCHI: You know, we were acting based on our rights within the NPT. We didn't have anything wrong. IAEA inspectors were present in Iran, you know, different reports of IAEA testified the fact that we have been very, you know, straightforward in our nuclear program. So, there is no ban on 60 percent enriched uranium, which are being used, you know, in different places for peaceful purposes.

But to use that as a pretext to -- you know, to use aggression against Iran, that is something that we (INAUDIBLE). AMANPOUR: OK. But even the IAEA says, and they put out a public statement shortly before these strikes began, that they had never before seen that amount of stockpile of that much enriched uranium by any country that does not have a nuclear weapon. So, that's a fact.

And I want to know whether you guys were negotiating and do you feel you've been out negotiated or you miscalculated? If Trump says he thinks you are playing him, maybe you've been played.

[11:14:51]

TAKHT-RAVANCHI: No, no. That -- as I said, we were negotiating in good faith with Americans, five rounds of negotiations. And apparently, both of us were happy with the, you know, ongoing negotiation.

But all of a sudden, two days before, you tell me that he gave us 60- day deadline. And on day 61st -- 61 they attacked us. But what was -- what was about to happen on day 63?

So, the American president should respond to this question. If he knew that the attack was about to happen two days before the next round, why did he, you know, acted like -- why did he act like this?

In fact, as far as NBC report is concerned on June 8th, Defense Department, Pentagon briefed the president about the attack. So, he didn't say anything. In fact, it is a sort of collaboration between Israelis and Americans and the division of labor between the two.

AMANPOUR: Clearly, they believe, and I assume you believe, that if you attack, and you might call it retaliation, whatever, if you strike any U.S. bases or U.S. personnel, the reaction will be humongous. Are you -- can you say that you would not do that even if America joins? Are you -- in other words, are you trying to make sure that America doesn't come into this?

TAKHT-RAVANCHI: No, we have not acted against anybody than the Israelis. But --

AMANPOUR: I'm saying if America comes in.

TAKHT-RAVANCHI: But I'm just responding to you, Christiane.

AMANPOUR: Sorry.

TAKHT-RAVANCHI: If the Americans decide to get involved militarily, we have no choice but to retaliate wherever we find the targets necessary to be acted upon.

So, that is clear and simple. Because we are acting in self-defense. If, you know, another country joins the fight, so that is another instance for our self-defense. You do not expect Iran to be -- to not use its right of self-defense based on Article 51 of the U.N. Charter.

AMANPOUR: After the fall of Assad in December, there were many reports from -- you know, coming from inside Iran, how pundits were talking on state television, on Telegram, on all sorts of chats how Iran had misjudged the dynamics, particularly, you know, in your closest ally.

There you were propping him up. You were the ground forces. You were his ally. And he fell and it took you all by surprise. So, do you believe that you have a handle on what your own people are feeling? What if you are taken by surprise and they take this as an opportunity to demonstrate their anger and their impatience with what they have had to go through for many decades?

TAKHT-RAVANCHI: No, as I said before -- as I said before, come to Tehran. Come to different cities in Iran and see for yourself what is the cohesion within the Iranian society in resisting aggression.

Iranians have always been famous for the steadfast against aggression, against foreign intervention. Do not compare Iran for any other country.

You have been in Iran before. You are familiar with the mentality of the Iranians. Different walks of life, with those who are critical of the government, with those who are supporting the government -- They have one voice. They resist the aggression and time will show that we are right.

AMANPOUR: And finally, Israel says that it believes you were on the verge of deciding to make a nuclear bomb. Now, Trump is moving in that direction, even though his intelligence chief said that's not the case in terms of their assessments.

But do you now think that this clear attack on all of your facilities and your conventional weapons, if you survive, will Iran decide to become a nuclear weapon state?

TAKHT-RAVANCHI: No, we will survive. That is for sure. This is the point that I need to emphasize. The other point is that we do not believe in nuclear weapons. There is no place in our, you know, defensive doctrine. Nuclear weapons have no place in our defensive doctrine.

In fact, we believe that the world will be a better place without the nuclear weapons. But who has the nuclear weapons in the Middle East? The Israeli regime. Who has the weapons -- you know, the most sophisticated weapons, nuclear weapons? The Americans. So, they are the ones who should be responsible for all the chaos that are going on in different parts of the world as a result of, you know, desire for achieving nuclear weapons.

[11:19:50]

AMANPOUR: Deputy Foreign Minister Majid Takht-Ravanchi, thank you very much indeed for joining us and we hope that we can talk to you again.

TAKHT-RAVANCHI: My pleasure. Thank you, Christiane.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: And you can see that full interview with the deputy foreign minister, the first senior official out of Iran to discuss what's going on. It's all online.

We also continue to ask both U.S. and Israeli officials to come on this show.

Up next, though, 16 years after the Green Revolution in Iran, when the people first tried and failed to bring about change.

I speak to Iran expert Vali Nasr about who might be the opposition this time around. That's when we come back.

[11:20:29]

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AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program.

Israel has systematically expanded its targets in Iran since it began a week ago. From nuclear and military sites to domestic infrastructure, policing, intelligence headquarters, as well as electricity and other vital necessities and publicly threatens to assassinate Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Khamenei.

At one point, Israel and President Trump even told the entire capital city to evacuate a densely populated 10 million people.

It was an extraordinary message that appeared designed to spread fear and chaos, along with its other internal regime targets in Tehran.

According to the majority of Iran watchers, this all points to trying to undermine the ayatollah's grip and cause an uprising to end their time in power.

So if the opportunity came, who might lead the opposition inside Iran. For answers I spoke to former State Department official and prominent Iran expert Vali Nasr, professor at Johns Hopkins and also author of "Iran's Grand Strategy".

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back.

We've talked a lot over the years, but this is really, I think, the culmination of a lot of discussions that we've had.

VALI NASR, AUTHOR, "IRAN'S GRAND STRATEGY: A POLITICAL HISTORY": I mean, the problem is that President Trump wants a deal without even negotiating. I mean, ultimately, that was the problem with these five rounds of talks that they had, that they never became serious negotiations.

There was always talk about talking and then President Trump trying to say, well, this is where you ought to end and this is what I want, and I want you to give me what should be the end result of a negotiation upfront. It doesn't work like that.

And so, at some point he actually has to get serious with negotiations. It's possible the Iranians maybe more pliable now. The water has to be tested. He has to put offers on the table. I mean, what is he offering in exchange for you giving up your right to enrichment?

AMANPOUR: do you think -- because they swear up and down that it's not their official goal, but in their speeches and in their words and in their targeting, do you think regime change is unquestionably on their agenda?

NASR: Well, let's sort of parse this. Israel and Iran will not go to war with tanks and artillery because they don't share a border, and Israel is a much smaller country.

So, Israel can carry air war, cyber war against Iran. If that does not yield the result, and Israel needs boots on the ground, its boots on the ground are called the United States of America. That's the strategy.

That's why President -- Prime Minister Netanyahu wants to get America into the war very quickly because then it actually makes Israel's campaign much more effective.

But, you know, you can start wars, you don't know how they end. The United States once they start the war with Iran, then it's not in control of how that war goes to the next step.

AMANPOUR: But they -- you know, the Israelis are attacking domestic intelligence headquarters, domestic policing, the kinds of institutions from the Revolutionary Guards that were responsible for crushing dissent, and all the sort of, you know, internal control and other, you know, infrastructure things.

They clearly hope, because they've said it, that this will encourage the Iranian people to rise up. And we clearly know that the Iranian people are fed up with this regime and want something different.

But just map out what are the scenarios if that should happen? Who takes over?

NASR: No, I mean, there are -- first of all I think this -- the way we're thinking about that the Iranian people are fed up with the regime and therefore, they're going to rise up, it's a little too nice and tidy for me.

First of all, what is the organization? Who's the leadership that is going to lead a mass uprising? It doesn't exist in Iran in that sense.

Secondly, the Iranian people are also really worried about their country becoming Syria, that parts of Iran are going to fall apart. That, you know, Azerbaijan, Kurdistan, Balochistan is going to go.

The same brutal guys that were suppressing them are the only soldiers and the force that's keeping the country together.

So, it's not a given that at this moment, until this war is over, the Iranian public would actually rise up in a war and assist in the dissolution of their own country.

There is no evidence of that. In fact, the opposite is happening in Iran. There is a sense of national unity around that. We need to -- we need to protect our country against aggressors. We need to protect our country against destruction.

And I think this is extremely powerful with Iranians. And in fact --

AMANPOUR: Do you think even young people who don't recall the Iran- Iraq war, which is so imprinted in most Iranians minds, I mean, you know, the majority of people there are young and they don't have those memories?

[11:29:52]

NASR: No. But they have television and they have smartphones as they've been watching what happened in Syria. They've been watching what happened in Gaza.

And when, you know, defense minister of Israel says, we're going to implement the rules of South Beirut to Tehran, they know exactly what that means and they're not --

AMANPOUR: You're talking about decimating the Hezbollah leadership?

NASR: No. Decimating the infrastructure and the residential buildings, destroying over 100,000 housing units in South Lebanon and South Beirut.

I mean, the Iranians know exactly -- you know, maybe the first 24 hours they thought Israelis are liberated. It was at least a segment of them. They killed these bad generals who had suppressed us who were awful.

But then they saw that Israelis are destroying civilian infrastructure.

I mean, the majority of the targets that they've hit in and around Tehran, across Iran, in cities, et cetera, to Iranian people in particular, these are not necessarily nuclear --

AMANPOUR: Really? That's --

NASR: Definitely, they're not nuclear sites. Even if they are military sites they -- these are not necessarily external combat military sites. These are sort of basically security institutions of the country.

So, with the Iranian public, the choice is not between, we're going to revolt and overthrow the regime right now, or we sit still. The choice is, do we have a country actually once this is done?

AMANPOUR: Vali Nasr, thank you very much.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: And coming up, from my archive, the optimism Iranians once had for change in a nation under fire now.

[11:31:28]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back.

As we look at the heated rhetoric in the Middle East across the decades, it's easy to think that perhaps what's happening to Iran was inevitable. But then again, maybe it wasn't.

Several times in the past decades, the people of Iran hoped even their Islamic revolutionary government would allow more freedoms and a more normal relationship with the rest of the world.

That's why they voted for Mohammad Khatami in 1997, a relative moderate among the mullahs with the goal of reform at home. And he told me, breaking down the wall of mistrust with America and the rest of the world.

A couple of years after his -- I covered his election, I returned to talk to my own family and many others about their hopes and dreams.

And its jarring to look back now, 25 years later.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: The 1979 Iranian revolution was about overthrowing a system. But after its dramatic first years, the revolution settled into an evolution.

Ever since President Mohammad Khatami was elected, the world's only theocracy has been caught in a struggle between religion and democracy.

It seems to me the final chapter is now being written on Iran's revolutionary journey. And so how will it end?

Well, many of the Iranians I know say there is no turning back.

The journalist Jalaeipour believes the hardline conservatives are simply outnumbered now.

HAMIDREZA JALAEIPOUR, JOURNALIST: You know, more than 20 million students going to school and high school, more than 4 million have -- they have got BA, MA, PhD. They cannot ignore all these generations. It is very difficult.

AMANPOUR: The bookstore owner, Gali Emami, hopes those young people will finish what her generation began.

GALI EMAMI, IRANIAN BOOKSTORE OWNER: Perhaps they would provide us with that peace that we have been looking for, and we are yearning for every day here.

AMANPOUR: Do you think they'll make it? Do you think the youngsters will do it?

EMAMI: All I can tell you is that I'm going to keep my fingers crossed that it happens.

AMANPOUR: But as I said at the beginning of this hour, all politics are personal in Iran. And in the end, what so many people want is for the government to get out of their private lives.

Leila, the art student, wants the freedom to fall in love. She dreads the idea of a traditional Islamic courtship.

LEILA: I'd be sitting at home being a very good cook, being able to sew and some mother would see me. She would bring her little boy, her son for me to see and for him, not for me to choose. I mean for him to see if he likes me and then have this wedding where the women are -- I'll be sitting with my mother-in-law and all my relatives, the women. And he'd be with the men.

And in the end, get into the car and say, hey, guess what, we're married. And let's get to know each other.

AMANPOUR: And then there's my own family. Like me, some of them left Iran at the start of the revolution, but now they are coming back.

[11:39:49]

AMANPOUR: My cousin Kulak went to France, but he returned full of optimism, to open his own Internet cafe.

My cousin Suri's daughters are in the United States at college, but she wants them to come home to an Iran in which they can truly have equal rights.

And my father, who left his homeland 21 years ago, uncertain and confused -- can now return to celebrate his 85th birthday with three generations of Amanpours.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Now, in fact, all those young hopefuls in my family have left again. The brain drain continues apace to this day. Ordinary people just want freedom and an end to the broken, sanctioned economy and the wickedly high price of life.

When we come back, a change of subject and a cultural break. My conversation with the visionary director, the unique Wes Anderson. That's after this.

[11:40:58]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program.

And next to a movie director who has become a cult figure adored for his offbeat films, painted in glorious colors. Wes Anderson first captured the world's attention with "Rushmore" back

in 1998. Since then, he's made beloved modern classics like "The Royal Tenenbaums", "The Grand Budapest Hotel", "Fantastic Mr. Fox", and my favorite "Moonrise Kingdom", each shot with his idiosyncratic sense of style and filled with ensembles made up of some of the world's finest actors.

His new movie is called "The Phoenician Scheme" and before the global chaos indicator rose so dramatically, I asked Wes Anderson all about it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Wes Anderson, welcome to our program.

ANDERSON: Thank you. Thank you, Christiane. Very happy to be here.

AMANPOUR: People have now come to describe your films as sort of Andersonian, Anderson-esque. Do you accept that? Do you see that there is a vision and a visual and an aesthetic?

ANDERSON: I have to say I do. I think -- you know, and I don't know how many movies I've -- I think I've done 11 or 12 or something like that.

You know, for me, every -- when I make a new film, I'm thinking of it as a clean slate, a fresh start, new characters, new story. To me, it's a completely different thing.

But every time I release a trailer for the next one, the first thing I hear is you could tell it was me in the first 10 seconds and I've had to accept that that is simply true.

AMANPOUR: Is it good or bad?

ANDERSON: I think, you know, it's not exactly -- well, I think it's more like a handwriting or something. It's just -- you know, my -- I can't -- I can't change my handwriting. It's just the way it comes out when I move my hand across - - when I move my pencil across the paper.

And I don't -- you know, I -- even though I'm trying to make decisions to do something different every time and surprise myself and anyone else, I sort of accept that I have a certain kind of voice that happens to be quickly identifiable.

AMANPOUR: Yes. You also have often quite a lot of the same characters, right? I mean, you go back to people like Tom Hanks and others. I'm just saying Tom Hanks because I just kind of recognize him, but there are many others. Why do you do that? I'm really fascinated by that.

ANDERSON: From the -- from when I first started making films, which is a very long time ago, I liked the idea of having a sort of stock company, like a theater troupe. And I love the start of a movie being a kind of reunion.

The other thing is over the years I've gotten to know and work with a good number of my very favorite actors. So, there's something to be said for I already know my -- so many of my favorites. I go back to them and see if I can lure them in again.

AMANPOUR: In "The Phoenician Scheme," you also have Scarlett Johansson, Jeffrey Wright, et cetera. You've worked with all of them before.

Let's just talk quickly about the plot. So, it is a father- daughter story. It's quite complicated, filled with all sorts of unpredictable twists and turns.

But at the heart of it is, as I say, a father and a daughter building a relationship. And this larger-than-life father has all sons except for this one daughter. And at one point he says, you are going to be my heir.

So, I'm going to play this clip and then we'll talk about it.

[11:49:46]

AMANPOUR: The father is Zsazsa Korda (ph) played -- yes, as we know by Benicio del Toro. And we'll talk about the daughter Mia in a second. Let's play this clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENICIO DEL TORO, ACTOR, "THE PHOENICIAN SCHEME": I have appointed you sole heir to my estate, which you may come into sooner rather than later.

I'm provisionally manager of my affairs after the event of my actual demise on a trial basis.

MIA THREAPLETON, ACTRESS, "THE PHOENICIAN SCHEME": Why?

DEL TORO: Why, what?

THREAPLETON: Why sooner rather than later, since you survived again? And why am I a sole heir to your estate? You have eight sons I last count.

DEL TORO: Nine sons.

THREAPLETON: Nine sons. What about them?

DEL TORO: They're not my heirs.

THREAPLETON: Why not?

DEL TORO: I have my reasons.

THREAPLETON: Which are what?

DEL TORO: My reasons. I'm not saying. I am saying, I'm not saying.

(END VIDEO CLIP) AMANPOUR: It's so Wes Anderson. Of course, I was wrong. I said Mia, but she's Liesl in the film. But she's Mia Threapleton in real-life. And her mother just happens to be Kate Winslet.

Were you -- how did you know that she was such a good actress? Had she had, you know, a body of work?

ANDERSON: I saw her audition a little -- you know, a little QuickTime on my laptop among a thousand other auditions for this role. And she was -- it was -- you know, we'd given them -- each actress auditioning we'd given them a scene we'd prepared, a sort of scene that's something like what's in the movie to play the character.

And she made -- it seemed like she was -- it seemed like a documentary. It seemed like just documentary footage, totally authentic.

And I didn't know her -- any family connection. I didn't know anything about her at all. I just saw this little clip. But I basically watched it and thought, I think we may be able to shut down our search right now. I think we might have her.

And when I introduced her to Benicio del Toro, the two of them together had something just a chemical instantly that I saw that, well, let's film that.

AMANPOUR: So, am I right? Is it a father-daughter story? What is your vision about this film?

ANDERSON: I'd find -- I don't know exactly my intentions for the story. It sort of reveals itself as it goes along, and that's how it happens for me anyway.

And this movie, I thought, was a movie about a businessman and his grand venture that he's undertaking and this sort of brutality of this very rich man, Benicio.

But somehow the story led us in another direction, and there was a layer to this character that I sort of hadn't anticipated. And it became I think the center of the movie is entirely what you described.

but it's a father-daughter story and his business plan that is wildly complex is almost a ritual for him to get back together with her.

AMANPOUR: Yes. Amazing. Thank you very much, Wes Anderson. It's great to talk to you. "The Phoenician Scheme."

ANDERSON: Thank you. Thank you, Christiane. Thank you so much. My pleasure to be here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: And "The Phoenician Scheme" is still in cinemas now.

When we come back, a grand work of art that helped reunify a nation wounded and divided after World War II. Why Berlin is rewrapping the Reichstag to honor the wonderful artist Christo. That's next.

[11:53:07]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: And finally, a government building with a dramatic history becomes a legendary work of art again. Berlin is rewrapping the Reichstag. Well, sort of.

It's an anniversary tribute to the monumental artist Christo and his wife Jeanne-Claude, who first wrapped the Reichstag with reams of specially made cloth. That was 30 years ago.

This time, the wrapping is in the form of a light bath projected all over the building. And this weekend is the last time to catch it as it ends tomorrow, after a two-week run.

The original piece took a decades long fight to become a reality and an instant classic. As well as unifying, it was a moment for Berlin.

Here's what Christo told me about how his own history as a refugee always informed his art and his unstoppable drive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTO, ARTIST: I was 21 when I escaped. Probably I was unconscious. Totally eager to do what I do in art. I was art studio or art academy. And I still today, I will not move one millimeter of my freedom.

This is why everything I do is myself. Nobody asked us to wrap the podium. Nobody asked us to do the gates. Nobody asked us to do the mastaba here. We. And for that thing, you need to have total freedom.

AMANPOUR: So you're pretty hard line when it comes to freedom. You won't compromise at all?

CHRISTO: No, not at all.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[11:59:43]

AMANPOUR: Not one millimeter. Love that uncompromising spirit from Christo. Now, he would not budge from his sense of freedom, as he told me. And we spoke here in London when Christo came in 2018 for the last monumental piece he made before he died two years later.

And that's all we have time for.

Don't forget, you can find all of our shows online as podcasts at cnn.com/audio and on all other major platforms.

I'm Christiane in London. Thank you for watching and I'll see you again next week.