Return to Transcripts main page

The Amanpour Hour

Interview with Archbishop of Newark Cardinal Joseph W. Tobin; Interview with Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor in 2019 and "The News Agents" Podcast Co-Host Emily Maitlis; Should the U.S. Copy Denmark's Vaccine Strategy?; Interview with "Sentimental Value" Director and Co- writer Joachim Trier; Ukrainian Civilians Turned Drone Pilots Change Course of War; A Golden Winter Games. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired February 21, 2026 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:00:49]

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. And welcome to THE AMANPOUR HOUR.

Here's where we're headed this week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: The American Pope Leo says thanks, but no thanks to a seat on President Trump's Board of Peace. I talked to Cardinal Joseph Tobin, archbishop of Newark and a key Leo ally who's using his pulpit to challenge Trump's immigration crackdown.

Then Britain's former Prince Andrew, arrested on quote, "suspicion of misconduct in public office" amid questions about his dealings with Jeffrey Epstein. What comes next? We speak to journalist Emily Maitlis, who interviewed the former prince in that infamous 2019 encounter.

And from my archive, the report on the Ukrainian drone pilots who've helped change warfare forever and slowed the Russian army to a crawl.

Also ahead, the White House claims it's just emulating Denmark with its rollback of childhood vaccines. Denmark begs to differ. Dr. Sanjay Gupta has the facts from Copenhagen.

And award season is reaching fever pitch. Joachim Trier, the director and writer of "Sentimental Value", the Norwegian film nominated for nine Oscars, joins me.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London.

Iran, Ukraine, Gaza, Venezuela, Greenland -- the list goes on -- and their futures are all being decided by the Trump administration. The president convened the first meeting of his so-called Board of Peace this week to discuss the reconstruction of Gaza, which was decimated by Israel after the October 7th Hamas attacks.

Trump claims it will be, quote, "the most consequential" international body in history. There's just one pretty big problem, most European allies are staying out. And now the Vatican has refused to join as well, saying the U.N. should manage crisis situations.

Pope Leo is making the call for peace a central part of his papacy, repeatedly condemning what he calls the zeal for war. In fact, the American pope is emerging as one of the most prominent resistance figures to his own country's policies.

Here he is on the administrations immigration crackdown.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE LEO XIV, ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH: You have to look for ways of treating people humanely, treating people with the dignity that they have.

If people are in the United States illegally, there are ways to treat that. There are courts, there's a system of justice.

There's a deep reflection that needs to be made in terms of what's happening. And many people who have lived for years and years and years, never causing problems, have been deeply affected by what's going on right now.

Someone who says that I'm against abortion, but I'm in agreement with the inhuman treatment of immigrants who are in the United States, I don't know if that's pro-life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: One of Pope Leo's staunchest allies is Cardinal Joseph Tobin of Newark. He told me he's deeply concerned about America's future, which is why he's using his pulpit to call out injustice.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Cardinal Tobin, welcome to the program.

CARDINAL JOSEPH W. TOBIN, ARCHBISHOP OF NEWARK: Well, thank you very much, Christiane. I'm honored to be here.

AMANPOUR: Obviously, Pope Leo is the first American Pope, and he really has made it a mission to speak out certainly for the immigrants in the United States, treat them with dignity, treat them with due process. They don't have to be, you know, rounded up and all treated like criminals.

And you yourself, even on Ash Wednesday, I think you went into a, I believe it was an ICE facility to say mass and to bless your constituents, or rather, you know, your people there.

Tell me about the tension between the Vatican, between, you know, the Newark Archdiocese and the administration on this issue. TOBIN: Well, you mentioned my perspective and my perspective was formed by, as you note, something that happened yesterday morning here in the eastern part of the United States and in the state of New Jersey.

[11:04:50]

TOBIN: I was permitted to enter an ICE facility to conduct religious services for some of the 1,300 inmates that were there.

It was a moment of very somber and palpable suffering, because they were separated from their families, from the people they most wanted to be with.

But I saw incredible solidarity among these women, especially at a moment called the sign of peace where we exchange a handshake or an embrace, to see these women who were heartbroken, yet want to support each other.

And I -- that gives meaning to what I do is simply to recognize the dignity of each person and to work together in the community to make sure that that dignity is recognized and respected.

AMANPOUR: Cardinal, you have really used your platform now and your pulpit, obviously, to take a stand.

You've denounced ICE as a lawless organization. This obviously after the killing in January of the nurse, Alex Pretti, and also before that, Renee Good in Minneapolis. And you've urged Catholics to oppose additional funding of ICE.

What moved you to enter that fray? Because it is also political, it's religious, it's about values, it's about Christian charity, but it's also political in today's world.

TOBIN: I can say this is the important thing, that we're not going beyond Catholic principles. At least I'm not.

And that's what -- I have perfect confidence that what I think we all can agree on is the worth of each human being. And not because it's acquired or achieved or bestowed on by an external power. It is an element, an essential element of being human as intended by our creator.

AMANPOUR: You've mentioned a lot of people who are targeted within your own diocese, and we hear from Cardinal Cupich of Chicago who he says priests in his archdiocese have been stopped by federal agents, asked to prove their immigration status.

This is what he said to a PBS station. "I've had some priests who are of different color being targeted and arrested, stopped because of their color, and asking them to prove that they're citizens. That's not America.

Of course, DHS said allegations that ICE engages in racial profiling are categorically false. But what can you tell us about what that Cardinal says?

TOBIN: Well, I have no reason to doubt what Cardinal Cupich said. But speaking from what I know here in Newark, I don't believe, at least I've not heard of any of our priests that have been stopped.

But I can tell you there is a great anxiety among the priests for their own status, even if they have legal status in the United States. They worry about being stopped suddenly on the street and asked to produce documents. So, they carry their identification documents with them.

But I think the pain of our priests is also sharing the pain of the people. One of the other services I had last evening, Christiane, was in a downtown parish in Newark who has lost 25 people since Christmas. And you could feel the sorrow among the people. And there were a few empty places in the church simply because it was too risky for people to be seen on the streets.

AMANPOUR: As you know, Tom Homan, he is Trump's border czar, and back in November, he basically criticized the Pope for -- you know, for making these public statements.

Here's what he said. I want to play it for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM HOMAN, WHITE HOUSE BORDER CZAR: I'm saying this as a lifelong -- I was baptized Catholic, first communion as a Catholic, confirmation of Catholic.

He ought to fix the Catholic Church and concentrate on his work and leave border enforcement to us. He wants to attack us from securing our border? He's got a wall around the Vatican, does he not? So he's got a wall around to protect his people and himself. But we can't have a wall around the United States.

So I wish he'd stick to the Catholic Church and fix that and leave border enforcement to us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: What do you make of that?

TOBIN: Well, I can certainly say that neither the Pope or myself or anybody else, other than those who are elected, make policy for the people of the United States. Our legislators and our elected officials do that.

But that does not keep us from viewing reality from the perspective of our own faith.

And I would suggest that if Mr. Homan really wanted to know what the Holy Father thinks, he should have a conversation with him. [11:09:49]

TOBIN: I'm quite sure he would get a respectful listening from him, as well as a clear exposition of the Catholic Church's position on this question.

AMANPOUR: On the Board of Peace, because we said that the Vatican had declined to attend, declined the invitation to join. You know, the Holy See is saying they're left perplexed by some points of the plan on critical issues which need to be resolved.

In general, what is the view and why are there reservations about the Board of Peace?

TOBIN: Well, I can't speak for the secretary of state, but I can recall what the Secretary of State Cardinal Parolin, said yesterday. And that was basically to recognize that there were some perplexities or some open questions that prevented the Holy See, or the Vatican, if you want to say that, from joining the Board of Peace.

But I think he also expressed a clear vote in favor of the United Nations as the arbiter of conflict within this country. And the Vatican has had a positive, though not always uncritical, view of the United Nations since its very founding.

AMANPOUR: All right. Well, Cardinal Tobin, thank you very much for joining us from Newark.

Thank you so much.

TOBIN: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Coming up next, accountability at the top. How the arrest of the man formerly known as Prince Andrew is challenging Britain's monarchy in a way unheard of in hundreds of years.

And later in the program, it's won nine Oscar and eight BAFTA nominations, which will be awarded here in London tomorrow. "Sentimental Value" director Joachim Trier joins me.

[11:11:36]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back.

Now here in Britain this week, the monarchy has been rocked and shaken to its very core. The disgraced former Prince Andrew was arrested on Thursday on suspicion of quote, "misconduct in public office", the first senior royal to be arrested since King Charles I in 1647.

This all comes following a long fall from grace after the extent of his relationship with the sex offender, Jeffrey Epstein came to light. Now known as Mr. Mountbatten-Windsor, he has always denied any

wrongdoing over these ties. Just after the news broke, his brother King Charles III said, quote, "the law must take its course".

I discussed all of this with the British journalist Emily Maitlis, who interviewed the former prince face-to-face in that infamous 2019 encounter.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Welcome to the program.

EMILY MAITLIS, INTERVIEWED ANDREW MOUNTBATTEN-WINDSOR IN 2019 AND CO- HOST, "THE NEWS AGENTS" PODCAST: Thanks, Christiane.

AMANPOUR: You know, I said that this was a royal earthquake. Do you think it is a royal earthquake? Do you think it threatens the very monarchy?

MAITLIS: I'm absolutely stunned. This is not something that we are used to seeing.

And we have to remember that Andrew remains eighth in line to the throne. He still lives in a royal residence. It isn't in Windsor, it isn't Royal Lodge, the place that he was moved out of but it is on the royal estate.

And I think the questions now for the royal family and particularly for the monarch, his brother, will be how close that relationship is made to seem between the two of them and to the wider public.

AMANPOUR: So, the king, his brother, did appear in public today. Extraordinarily, he was going to London Fashion Week. And he has, as I said, made that statement about supporting the course of law.

Given the seriousness of how you describe what's just happened, why do you think it's happened now? What is the trigger?

MAITLIS: There is no question in my mind that when King Charles removed that title from Andrew six months ago, last October, when he asked him to leave Royal Lodge, the king was essentially paving the way for the law to take its course.

He was essentially saying, I think, to the forces of justice in this country, I don't want to tie your hands. He's my brother, but he is no longer untouchable.

AMANPOUR: This is about misconduct in public office, say the police. That's the -- that's the suspicion.

He hasn't been charged.

MAITLIS: Yes.

AMANPOUR: He's in custody. What does that mean? Where -- that stems from his position as trade envoy. MAITLIS: Right.

AMANPOUR: What was he doing and what's at stake here?

MAITLIS: Let's begin by repeating, as we always do, that Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor denies all wrongdoing. When he was a trade envoy, it is alleged that he passed information that was confidential, to do with the state, to do with trade, to do with economics, to do with business from himself, from the U.K. government essentially, to Jeffrey Epstein.

So, it is a very serious offense. It can bring life imprisonment. I mean, in its extreme case, these kinds of accusations, allegations tend to be considered a sort of four-to-seven-year custodial sentence. Still a lot. And obviously, he hasn't been charged with anything. But it is notoriously difficult to prove.

[11:19:38]

MAITLIS: And as you say, there is an irony to all of this because for the last 15 years, we've been talking about Prince Andrew in relation to allegations made specifically by Virginia Giuffre, Epstein's victim who lost her life to suicide tragically last April.

This has nothing to do with that. It is not connected legally to that. And the only reason we know about the sharing of information, the alleged sharing of confidential information, is because of the release of the Epstein files.

AMANPOUR: Right.

MAITLIS: So, you know, to all those saying, oh, my gosh, there's so much stuff, there's three million bits of information. Are we ever going to understand anything?

You know, Thomas Massie, the Republican from Kentucky, who's really led the charge on the Transparency Act, on getting these files released, is saying this is what it was all about. This is about seeing people having to face justice.

AMANPOUR: Except for, from his perspective, nothing really has happened to any of the Americans in terms of facing justice. The American men who've been mentioned in the Epstein files.

And there's a thought that so many, I mean, there's a former prime minister of Norway is under investigation -- and, and, and -- it's going all over the place.

So, I wonder what you think about, because I think even Prime Minister Starmer has said, if called by Congress, Andrew should testify on this other issue, not on the one that he's under investigation for right now.

MAITLIS: Look, what I would say is there are nine police forces investigating the former Prince Andrew right now. That is unheard of. It is unprecedented. And they're not all looking at misconduct in public office, i.e., the emails question.

There are police forces in Essex, in Bedfordshire, looking to flight logs at Stansted, at Luton Airport, trying to see if there were questions of trafficking. There is --

AMANPOUR: Using those airports here to bring traffic girls into the U.K.

MAITLIS: Exactly. So, there are lots of forces examining lots of different things concurrently.

And what I would say is, yes, I do think we are currently doing better in the U.K. We are doing better at letting the course of justice run its path than the U.S.

I mean, Norway is also doing that. France is also doing that. Europe, I think, is ahead on this.

But I don't think that means it won't happen in America. I mean if -- if now I was, I was one of those men who was named in depositions by Virginia Giuffre, she named them all. She named 40 men who she said had trafficked or raped or abused her. I would not be sleeping very comfortably tonight.

AMANPOUR: Well, this is really an extraordinary development.

Emily Maitlis, thank you very much indeed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Coming up, the White House says it's simply following Denmark's lead as it cuts vaccine recommendations. But is it really that simple? We go to Copenhagen next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENS LUNDGREN, PROFESSOR OF VIRAL DISEASES, UNIVERSITY OF COPENHAGEN: You cannot just take what has been carefully thought through in one geographical location and just extrapolate that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[11:22:39]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back.

Now in the United States, tension boils between parents, doctors and the Trump administration over childhood vaccines. While health practitioners, including the American Academy of Pediatrics, continue to recommend the full range of immunizations, this year, Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and his department are reducing the vaccine schedule, citing Denmark as a successful example of a leaner approach.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta headed to Copenhagen to see if actually Denmark's model can be copied in the U.S. He went to find the facts.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Denmark has long recommended fewer childhood vaccines than the United States. Babies here leave the hospital without any shots. By the time they're 12 years old, most Danish children have received vaccines against ten diseases.

Now, compare that to the United States. Until recently, American officials recommended children get vaccinated for 17 diseases. Now, six of those are still available but no longer recommended -- Hepatitis A and B, meningitis, rotavirus, flu, and COVID 19.

Some of those, like Hepatitis B are still a serious threat in certain parts of the United States, but not so much in Denmark. About six in every 100,000 Americans are diagnosed every year with chronic Hepatitis B. Compare that to less than 2 per 100,000 in Denmark.

That means around 18,000 Americans diagnosed every year, compared to about a hundred in Denmark.

So, this is a referral hospital?

LUNDGREN: That's right.

GUPTA: Dr. Jens Lundgren (ph) is a specialist in infectious diseases. He sits on the panel that decides which vaccines to give Denmark's children.

Did it surprise you when you heard that the United States is trying to emulate their vaccine schedule on Denmark?

LUNDGREN: Yes, I certainly didn't see that coming. You cannot just take what has been carefully thought through in one geographical location and just extrapolate that and generalize that.

GUPTA: I think part of the reason that they emulate Denmark is because Denmark has the fewest vaccines on the schedule.

LUNDGREN: But you see, that's not a good argument, right? So, why do you want to condense your vaccine program against the fewest vaccine? You want to have the right vaccines for the public health that you have in your population.

[11:29:48]

GUPTA: You believe these vaccines that we're talking about on the childhood vaccine schedule, you believe they are safe and effective.

LUNDGREN: Correct.

GUPTA: That's not -- that's not the concern here --

(CROSSTALKING)

LUNDGREN: That's not the debate here.

GUPTA: So, what is it fundamentally about?

LUNDGREN: We have come to realize, after have made some mistakes also early on, in how the vaccine program that it's entirely based on trust. The trust.

The trust -- parents need to trust, when we come with a new vaccine into the program, they need to trust that that's very sensible to do. And they would therefore adhere to that.

GUPTA: Lundgren and his colleagues are now considering adding another vaccine, the one for chickenpox.

Most Danes trust their government. Of the world's most advanced economies, it ranks near the top. And here's the United States, dead last. Just 28 percent of Americans trust the government.

Danish trust in government goes far beyond vaccines. Even after parents leave the hospital, child-rearing looks a whole lot different here.

I want to show you something pretty extraordinary. We've come to visit two-and-a-half-month-old Esther. Of course, we expected to find her inside the house given how cold it is, but instead, here she is in a stroller outside freezing cold temperatures.

You'll see this everywhere in Denmark. Parents swear by the fresh air for their heavily-swaddled babies.

The family is waiting for a home health nurse to arrive, who will come free of charge, five to six times during the baby's first year of life.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, you're so strong. Should we start by weighing you? Or should we start by measuring you? Oh, am I getting a smile.

GUPTA: What I'm struck by is Denmark is so different than the United States. You're here. Parental leave --

KENNETH SEJR HANSEN, FATHER OF THREE: Yes --

GUPTA: Nationalized healthcare system.

HANSEN: Obviously, there's a lot of people in the U.S. who are not that fond of the government actually running anything at all.

EDITH MARIE NIELSEN, MOTHER OF THREE: It's two completely different countries, right? And it's run differently, and politically, governmentally.

But I would want for the people in U.S. to have some of the benefits that we experience, because I do believe it benefits me as a parent. I believe it works.

So, I basically trust the system, right? That they have decided it for me and it works.

GUPTA: Vaccination isn't the only reason that outbreaks are less common here in Denmark. The National Serum Institute, or SSI, here in Copenhagen, keeps meticulous medical records of all Danish citizens, helping them track illnesses to help predict and even prevent outbreaks.

DR. GUPTA: What makes Denmark's superpower this data tracking?

LONE SIMONSEN, PROFESSOR OF POPULATION HEALTH SCIENCES, ROSKILDE UNIVERSITY: Whenever someone is tested for something, it goes into one database. Whenever someone is vaccinated, it goes into one database. It doesn't go to all kinds of places. It's one place. And then it's quite doable to link all this together.

DR. GUPTA: Americans might be uncomfortable with that level of tracking, but it is one of the many factors that makes the Danish system work.

It's easy to see reflections of the MAHA movement here. Danes emphasize personal health to ward off disease, and they are skeptical of too much medical intervention.

But the success of the Danish system is based on so much more than the number of vaccines parents give their children. Nationalized health care, high trust, and a lot of strong co-dependence on one another.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Copenhagen, Denmark.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: All of this against a worrying backdrop -- outbreaks of measles in the United States.

Now, coming up next --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We can't really talk. And my father is very difficult person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: -- the Norwegian knockout that's garnering acclaim and awards as it breaks hearts and cracks smiles in cinemas around the world. Director Joachim Trier joins me to talk "Sentimental Value" next.

[11:33:54]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program.

This week, London is playing host to the creme de la creme of the film industry for the British Film Awards, known as the BAFTAs. As you might expect English language movies dominate but one major breakthrough comes from Norway. The Scandi drama "Sentimental Value", racking up eight BAFTA and nine Oscar nominations for its story of a tense relationship between a father-daughter filmmaking family.

This week, I spoke to the film's director and co-writer, Joachim Trier.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Welcome to the program.

JOACHIM TRIER, DIRECTOR AND CO-WRITER, "SENTIMENTAL VALUE": Thank you.

AMANPOUR: Look, it's really a film that has taken everybody by storm, obviously the critics, obviously the awards season and audiences.

What is this film? You tell me what it's about, why you came to it.

TRIER: I would say it's about all the stuff we don't know how to talk about. It's about how there's all this transference, all these things that parents and children go through that there's no language for.

And we were trying to make this sort of ensemble piece about those unspoken things, I guess.

AMANPOUR: Yes. And again, Stellan Skarsgard is the lead character, I suppose you would call it. It's all revolves essentially around him.

[11:39:49]

AMANPOUR: He is the absent father. Gustav is his character.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STELLAN SKARSGARD, ACTOR, "SENTIMENTAL VALUE": You may have heard about the retrospective of my films in France.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. Where should I have heard?

SKARSGARD: The film I'm making is more important.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're hanging in there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Why did he leave home?

TRIER: No. So, I think the film is dealing with generational trauma. I think Gustav Borg is a man who was born in the early 50s in Norway, where right after the Second World War. And I know this also because I have had a grandfather who was actually in the Resistance during the war and imprisoned.

So, that whole generation trying to move on, trying to create a society where they leave trauma and the past behind without really maybe quite talking about it. And that generation after, who's then Stellan Skarsgard's characters,

is growing up in a home where there's a lot of trauma that's unspoken.

And without revealing too much of what happens in the film, I would say he's also a representation of that generation, of a man who maybe hasn't been allowed to find an emotional language to convey himself to his family. And then found refuge, ironically enough, making films that turn out to be very emotionally engaging.

So, it's the paradox of this man who, on one hand, is incapable of really being close to his family, but on the other hand is embraced by the whole world for making these humanist, loving films, you know.

And so, he comes to his oldest daughter, played by Renate Reinsve, who's an actor. And he offers her a script and says, I wrote it for you. But she feels rather, what's the term, commodified or used, you know, like, oh, you want me to help you finance this, but she needs a father.

She declines. He goes and finds an American star at a French film festival played by Elle Fanning. She comes to Norway to play the role of the daughter. And before you know, you have this kind of tragic and slightly comical situation of a family trying to reconcile with each other.

AMANPOUR: And you get this real sort of connection between the two sisters and how the younger one admits that it's the older one who's, you know, had to be on her own forging the path for both of them and how she always felt safe because her older sister made her feel safe when her father left and her mother, you know, I guess couldn't cope really.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's one major difference in the way we grew up. I had you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: How interesting was it for you, the sister relationship and their relationship with their father?

TRIER: It started with the sisters. It started with two adult women who had made different life choices and were asking themselves the question, why are we so different from each other, even though we grew up in the same family? How come parents -- we'll never have the same parents, even though they are the same parents?

Because you -- because of personality, you trigger something different in them. You are experienced to grow, growing up maybe at different stages in your parents' life and so forth.

And the way that they kind of then compensate and have switched roles, we thought was something we wanted to explore.

You know, even though this is a bit of a sad and melancholic story, we also wanted it to be warm. And I wanted to make it about a hopeful reconciliation and not kind of in the sell-out way where everyone just has a conversation at the end and it's all fine.

We're trying to find a cinematic and hopefully truthful way to talk about the good-enough family, the family where you also have to accept that there has been grief, there has been things that hasn't been ideal, but maybe there are baby steps to move forward.

AMANPOUR: I'm just going to ask you a final political question. As you know, the Berlin Film Festival, the Biennale Film Festival last week, there's a lot of politics, right?

They started out by saying we're not going to talk politics. And then others were saying why? And we should if we have platforms. Others said we shouldn't.

Where do you come down on this? Do you think that artists have the right and the duty to speak out or not?

TRIER: I think it's a personal choice. I think it's absolutely, absolutely right to speak your mind and be open and be critical of these difficult, complicated times on any issue you want, of course. And we should be allowed to.

But I also think that for a lot of artists, we create a language which is specific for our art. And maybe on a social level in our own life, there are things we don't know how to word or express as accurately as in our films.

And I do think it's hard for a film to not be political. We are always talking about the implications of identity, class, gender plays into it.

And then not all films are social comment films. But there are other ways of reading films as political allegories. I'm making a film about a third generation after the Second World War and in a very subtle way how those generational traumas are being implemented in psychological terms in a family.

[11:44:43]

TRIER: I wouldn't get on a soapbox and say that's explicitly political, but it plays with societal -- the societal implication of the individual's life. So, it's hard to avoid, I think.

AMANPOUR: All right. On that note, Joachim Trier, good luck with all the nominations and the awards coming up. Thank you so much.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: By Sunday night, we'll know how it did at the BAFTAs. And the film "Sentimental Value" is available now in select theaters and on video on demand.

Coming up, as Ukraine fights for its survival, a look back at how it pioneered drone warfare and changed the battlefield forever. [11:45:22]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program.

As Ukraine enters a fifth year of this brutal war inflicted by Russia's full-scale invasion, one thing we've learned -- drones are changing modern warfare. And Ukraine has been front and center developing this new fighting technology.

From my archive, a trip to a Ukrainian drone school. Here's that report from 2023.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Any support is welcome in Ukraine, especially if it appears blessed by Jesus, say these drone students, set up in an abandoned church, working on their simulators and convinced their cause is just.

YULIA, UKRAINIAN DRONE PILOT: We do whatever we can now to resist, because Russians want to kill all of us. This is genocide.

AMANPOUR: Next door in the construct and repair class, Yulia solders and tweaks and teaches. This part is fairly simple and fun, she says.

And did you study engineering? What are you in normal life?

YULIA: A writer and a film director.

AMANPOUR: You're a writer and a film director.

YULIA: Yes.

AMANPOUR: And now, you're a drone operator.

YULIA: Yes.

AMANPOUR: We're not allowed to disclose the location where Yulia and the others put theory into practice.

Here in this innocuous looking field with a rudimentary obstacle course, this could almost be child's play but with deadly results, of course.

These are all civilian drones that the Ukrainians are repurposing for their current war effort. They can be bought off store shelves.

But this signifies a turning point in the conduct of modern warfare.

A $500 drone that's been weaponized can take out vehicles and weapon systems worth millions.

Software engineer, Lyuba Shipovich, started the Victory Drones Initiative. LYUBA SHIPOVICH, CO-FOUNDER, VICTORY DRONES: The most advantage, it's

one of the most cost-effective weapons. And it's also a weapon and it could be used as reconnaissance.

For reconnaissance purpose, if you see the enemy, you can hit enemy, you can hide, like your soldiers. So, it's --

AMANPOUR: But enemy can see you.

SHIPOVICH: Yes, if you don't use security measurements.

AMANPOUR: Like hiding or disguising their signals, because the Russians are adapting fast. She says they're mostly crowd-funded and have deals with the Ukrainian military to train frontline troops, tens of thousands so far in what's become indispensable strategy.

That was just practice, dropping a water bottle full of sand. But just a few days ago, the group says one of their former trainees took out this Russian tank on the eastern front. They can also wipe out artillery positions and troop carriers.

How long did it take you to learn to fly?

Many of these citizen soldiers are women busting stubborn myths. And Yulia, of course, agrees. In fact, she assembles the drones her husband flies too.

And a lot of women have taken up this fight?

YULIA: Yes, we are all people and we're fighting for our existence.

AMANPOUR: Christiane Amanpour, CNN, Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: That was two-and-a-half years ago, and so much progress on that technology has been made. Ukrainians are still in this brutal fight for their very existence.

U.S.-brokered talks continued in Geneva this week, and President Trump continues to heap all the pressure on President Zelenskyy.

Here's what Zelenskyy told me at the Munich Security Conference.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: We are ready to speak about constant line. We are ready to speak about the stop on the contact line and then begin to talk.

This is also a compromise because we are speaking about our territories, which are temporarily occupied. Our people who have been killed so a lot of different compromises.

The question is what -- what Russians are ready to do? We don't hear compromises from Russian side. We want to hear from them something. And I think this is important.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: But will Trump put pressure on Putin to get him to the table? It remains the mysterious and still unanswered question.

After a break as the Winter Olympics come to a close, athletes are crossing finish lines and refusing to age out. That's next.

[11:54:32]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: And finally, the Winter Olympics wrap up this weekend after an unforgettable two weeks in Italy.

And while were all used to the teen wunderkinds like Japan's 17-year- old figure skater Ami Nakai wowing judges with her triple axels, this time a different generation is stealing the spotlight.

The oldest ever woman to enter the Winter Olympics took to the slopes this year. The impossibly cool Austrian snowboarder Claudia Riegler made history in her fifth games and still going strong at 52.

[11:59:50]

AMANPOUR: The U.S. also has some truly golden oldies -- well, old for the Olympics anyway. At 54, Rich Ruohonen bagged an emotional victory in curling after a four-decade effort just to reach the Olympics.

And in the mono-bob, a solo bobsled, 41-year-old mom of two, Elana Meyers-Taylor snatched gold by just a few hundredths of a second. She is the oldest ever female gold medalist.

That's all we have time for. Don't forget you can find all of our shows online as podcasts at cnn.com/audio and on all other major platforms.

I'm Christiane Amanpour in London. Thank you for watching and I'll see you again next week.