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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Biden Faces Fresh Signs Of Doubt In Re-Election Bid; A Look At Some Of Trump's Rally Remarks In Florida; Trump: Going To "Take A Look" At Potentially Inviting Nikki Haley To Speak At GOP Convention; Testimony Begins In Alec Baldwin Involuntary Manslaughter Trial; Hungary Attempts To Start Russia-Ukraine Peace Dialog; Biden To Give Major News Conference Tomorrow. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired July 10, 2024 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:00:08]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour the new video evidence presented in Alec Baldwin's involuntary manslaughter trial in which he's seen pulling a gun in a rehearsal. Why his defense team felt the need to show this in court and the scolding that prompted from the prosecution.

Plus, Donald Trump first not inviting his former Republican rival Governor Nikki Haley to the Republican National Convention and now why he's second guessing that this soon (ph).

Leading this hour however, new cracks for President Biden, Hollywood actor Democratic fundraiser George Clooney leading today's charge calling on President Biden to drop out of the presidential race. DNC fundraisers separately canceled an upcoming fundraising event. A slew of Democrats on Capitol Hill are coming out voicing fresh concerns about what happens to them and the party if Biden stays in the race. CNN's Manu Raju on Capitol Hill chasing down Democrats left and right.

Eight congressional Democrats, eight House Democrats, Manu, have already publicly called on Biden to step aside. So, Manu, tell us who came forward today and who might be next.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Pat Ryan, he's a Democratic congressman from New York from a swing district, joining seven other House Democrats and saying that it's time for Joe Biden's to step aside. Some of those members like Ryan in difficult races, that's where hearing most of the concerns from members who are in the swing districts, swing states and don't believe that Joe Biden at the top of the ticket can help them in November in aligning themselves in some ways, mostly in private about -- from with Michael Bennet, who went public last night. That's the Colorado Democratic senator who said on CNN that he believes that Joe Biden is on track to lose and there could be a landslide, that the House and Senate could go Republican and that there's probably -- he didn't go as far as calling for a change. But that is what a lot of people privately want to see happen. They want Joe Biden to make up the mind -- make up his mind and make, they say, the right decision. Now one comment that got a lot of tension today was Nancy Pelosi, the former House Speaker, she went on MSNBC earlier today and she suggested that Joe Biden would have to make a decision about whether to run or not. Even though Joe Biden has said repeatedly that he is going to run, that common part of some pushback from Biden that -- from Biden allies like John Fetterman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Was it helpful for Nancy Pelosi today to suggest that the President has not made a final decision on running yet?

SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): Well, it's been very clear he made -- he said it, I'm in. It's close. It's a strange thing for her to say.

RAJU: But I mean, you have to be concerned about his viability, aren't you?

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): I am deeply concerned about Joe Biden winning this November, because it is an existential threat to the country if Donald Trump wins. So, I think that we have to reach a conclusion as soon as possible.

RAJU: Senator, you think Joe Biden is going to cause --

SEN. SHERROD BROWN (D-OH): You know what concerns from Ohio voters? My job is to listen to them. My job is to go to hearings like this to fight for lower drug prices, to fight for Ohio workers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And that last comment comes from Sherrod Brown, the Ohio Democratic senator in a difficult race, who also went behind closed doors earlier or yesterday and expressed his fears that Joe Biden would lose and that Donald Trump would win. Now there, Brown would not say -- will not repeat that claim, but indicated that whatever he's saying is the result of what he's hearing back home. But Jake, that just shows you the level of concerns that are happening right now within the Democratic Party. And one other thing, Hakeem Jeffries, the Democratic leader has told his colleagues he will relay those concerns directly to Joe Biden in the days ahead, Jake.

TAPPER: And Manu, not unexpectedly, the House Oversight Committee, which is charged with oversight of the executive branch and also of course, run by Republicans right now, they are talking about this crisis. What are they saying?

RAJU: Yes, new subpoenas issued by the House Oversight Committee which is led by James Comer issuing three subpoenas to White House officials who in the eyes of the Republicans are trying to cover up as they say Joe Biden's cognitive health. Those three White House officials, Annie Tomasini, Anthony Bernal and Ashley Williams, they, according to what the Republicans say here in the statement that they put out in issuing this subpoena, they're saying "The White House has shielded three key aides from testifying about President Biden's mishandling of classified documents and now we've learned through reporting these same aides are also seeking to cover up President Biden's declining cognitive state inside the White House. President Biden is clearly unfit for office, yet his staff are trying to hide the truth from the American people."

[17:05:00]

We've reached out to The White House for comment. We know the White House has sharply criticized the tactics of James Comer from the beginning of this Congress as they've tried to launch an impeachment inquiry into the president that has not gone the way the Republicans had hoped. But the question will be, will they decide to comply with this subpoena? They are asking for a response by the end of the week about when they could sit down for a quote, "deposition," Jake. And this all comes a larger effort by this committee to try to target Joe Biden and questions about his mental state.

There was a -- the tapes that the Special Counsel Robert Hur, those -- that -- the testimony that depth of the interview that Joe Biden gave to Hur that has not been turned over to Congress, that committee is still trying to get that -- those tapes, Jake, in addition to getting an interview with Joe Biden's position as well.

TAPPER: Yes. Manu Raju, thanks so much.

Let's discuss this all with the former Democratic mayor of New York City Bill de Blasio, also a former presidential candidate.

Mayor, what was your reaction not just to President Biden's debate performance, but how the White House and his campaign have responded to it?

BILL DE BLASIO, (D) FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Well, Jake, I think it is predictable that when there's a challenge and when there's an open question about what to do, you try to project continuity. And that's 100 percent necessary for all the campaigning that's happening on the ground in the swing states. You got to keep that operation going. And so the President's message is pretty much the only one he could give at this point.

But I'll tell you, as someone who -- I, myself on a much more humble level had to decide whether it was time to end my political career, and that's a very, very tough and emotional and kind of painful decision, I think the President's obviously, thinking about all the evidence in front of him. But it's not a decision you make quickly or easily. And so in the meantime, you have to put up the right front just to keep everything going.

TAPPER: What did you think about his debate performance?

DE BLASIO: Oh, it was deeply problematic, obviously. Now, look, that's something I never would have wished on anyone. And he's a good man and a good president. And I wish if he was sick, they had postponed the debate. But I also think it's important to note that, you know, Donald Trump had open field there to change his strategy to moderate, to try and appeal to those suburban women, those moderate voters who really are going to be the key to this election in the swing states. And Donald Trump failed in debate, because he was just as radical, just as extremist. He literally said, oh, everyone wanted Roe v. Wade to be overturned. I can tell you there's millions of American voters, including Independents and Republicans, women who would say no, we didn't want that overturned. So, in many ways, Donald Trump did himself a lot of damage in that debate as well.

TAPPER: So far, eight House Democrats have called on Biden to step aside, many more obviously feel the same but haven't said so publicly. Should they? What do you think, House Democrats who are worried about Biden staying on the ticket should do?

DE BLASIO: You know, we're all talking about this election as a referendum on democracy and protecting democracy. It would be kind of ironic, if we said to our own party, people are not allowed to speak up and express their concerns. Yes, I think the President has been an extraordinary president far beyond I think what many people predicted. But at the same time, if there are valid concerns, and folks want to surface them, that's healthy, we got to have this discussion.

Now, the President has an opportunity to answer those concerns by the way he campaigns and the way he governs in the coming days. Or he might make a decision to step aside and the obvious choice then would be Kamala Harris. And Kamala Harris would bring a lot to the equation, she could potentially help us reach some of the voters, we may be seeing some drift within the black community or some of those -- particularly those suburban women voters that we really need to be part of our coalition with swing states. So, you know, Joe Biden has live options here.

But I would emphasize on the emotional level, I think this has sort of been undercounted. This guy has been a successful president. Imagine what it feels like if you've kind of done everything right and now all these people are saying it's time to go, well, that's painful. So I think in fact, if people push too hard, in some ways, there is the problem of a very, you know, honorable and proud man kind of bristling at that. So I think in a funny way, we're at the balance point.

Some voices are saying what's on a lot of people's minds. Plenty of other people are being very careful and diplomatic. In the end, there's space for the President to make that very, very personal decision.

TAPPER: You wrote an op-ed in the Atlantic back in 2022 addressing President Biden's unpopularity, saying that he could learn from your mistakes. You wrote that during your tenure as mayor you should have worked among the aggrieved voters, quote, "rather than just working for them behind closed doors. Voters need to know both what you're up to and why you're up to it. You have to help them feel your efforts. I fear Biden is making the same mistake.

[17:10:03]

Keeping things together even the midst of a crisis isn't the same as moving things forward." Now, that was in 2022. That's not a commentary on the last few weeks. But do you think that advice still applies? DE BLASIO: Jake, I think it applies even more. I have a critique of the Democratic Party right now. I love my party. But we are not offering an affirmative vision of where we're going as a country. It's too much of the energy.

And this includes, I respect the President, but I have to say so much of his message is about what's wrong with Donald Trump. You're not going to win by just talking about what's wrong with your opponent. In fact, Donald Trump is the best spokesperson for what's wrong with Donald Trump. He shows it in many ways. But we as Democrats, if we're not talking to people about how we're going to address inflation, how we're going to lower health care costs, how we're going to make the lives of working people better.

We have great ideas. The President's done a great job, for example, on lowering insulin costs. But he talks much less about that and much less about the things that are actually kitchen table issues than he does about the problems with Donald Trump or foreign policy. And let's -- Jake, let's be real. I think Bill Clinton and his team point this out a long time ago, Americans do care about foreign policy, they rarely vote on it.

Right now, people don't vote on things like inflation, clearly on abortion as a crucial issue to so many Americans, we need to talk about that and say where we will take people. And whether it's Joe Biden or it's Kamala Harris, we need an affirmative message to win this election.

TAPPER: Do you think President Biden has the cognitive abilities to be an effective candidate and to be an effective president?

DE BLASIO: Jake, he's got to show us more is the answer. Look, if he's our nominee, if he continues to be our nominee, I have many other people work hard for him. But we're simply asking the question, what's the best way to win this election? President's going to get out there and show us increasing vigor and energy and make the case through action, not words. You know, you can tell when someone's giving you like the real presentation of who they are.

He's amazing human being. He's achieved extraordinary things. If he can do that, if you can show that out there on the campaign trail, I think a lot of people would be very receptive. But that's the real test, going out there and doing it on a regular basis.

TAPPER: Bill de Blasio, thanks so much. Appreciate it. And we expect to hear from President Biden later this hour. He's scheduled to sit down with the new British Prime Minister Keir Starmer in just a moment. We're going to bring you that when it happens.

Donald Trump is trying to capitalize on the questions about President Biden's health of course, but he's really not wanting to talk because there are a lot of questions about his own rambling and wandering rants. Former White House communications director Anthony Scaramucci is here to talk about that. Plus, Trump's former Republican primary rival Nikki Haley is being reconsidered for next week's Republican National Convention after she was first left off the invite list. We're back in a moment.

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[17:16:57]

TAPPER: In our 2024 lead at his rally in Doral, Florida last night, former president Donald Trump seized on the opportunity to highlight the chaos happening within his rival's party, the Democratic Party right now. Trump also mentioned many other topics including immigration. He even brought up as he's been doing now for several weeks a infamous fictional character to emphasize the kind of person he claims is coming into the country illegally. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Under the Biden border disaster, other countries are emptying out their prisons in their jails. They're emptying out their mental institutions. And I go a step further, you know what an insane asylum is, right? Did anyone ever see the lovely movie "Silence of the Lambs," did you see it? Did you ever hear of Hannibal Lecter who's a lovely man, he would love to have you for dinner.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Goes on to say that that's the kind of people being let into the country. Later in the rally, Trump talked about how he's going to clean up crime ridden, cities including here in the nation's capital.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Right now if you leave Florida oh, let's go darling, let's look at the Jefferson Memorial, let's look at the Washington Monument, let's go and look at some of the beautiful scenes and you ended up getting shot, mugged, raped. We're going to take over our capital and we're going to run it tough and smart and we're going to beautify it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Then toward the end of this particular rally, this music plays in the background as Trump starts to list reasons why he says the United States of America is in decline. Here is how he says he's going to talk about -- how he's going to handle the country's problem with illegal drugs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We will institute the powerful death penalty for drug dealers where each dealer is responsible for the death during their lives of 500 people or more. Mothers will never again be forced to watch their children overdosing in hospitals. And we will never allow mothers to watch their child hopelessly dying in their arms screaming, what can I do? What can I do? Help me God?

What can I do? We are a nation whose once revered airports are a dirty crowded mess. (END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: OK. Something like a little whiplash or topics there in the back there. But anyway, let's bring in former White House communications director Anthony Scaramucci.

Anthony, last night Mr. Trump also brought up the January 6 rioters. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: But when people who love our country protest on January 6 in Washington, they become hostages, unfairly imprisoned for long periods of time. But fortunately, the Supreme Court has just ruled and they should be out soon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What is your reaction to that and all the other things we heard from President Trump last night?

[17:20:01]

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, you know, listen, it's a crazy stream of consciousness. It plays well to a certain group of people. It's almost like the last gasp of white ism in the country. He blows racist dog whistles. He says things that are basically attacks on black and brown people in the country.

He does it slightly subtly, but not really. And also you left out of that whole thing, Jake, is that he said he didn't know what NATO was when he ran for office, which is sort of true because he didn't know what the sights Pecos (ph) treaty was related to the Middle East. He didn't know the difference between a Shia and Sunni. And he's sort of bragging about that now. And so, there's an anti-elitism strategy there. There's an anti-anything but white strategy there.

And he's very smug right now, because the President obviously is not doing well, President Biden. Health wise, he doesn't look well, if we're just being candid about all this. And I think the campaign is making a mistake by telling the American people don't believe your lying eyes about what you see about the President. And so we're just in a different world now than FDR's world. We have to be honest about this stuff.

But Donald Trump can be beaten. And so the question is, who's going to be the candidate? If it's Joe Biden, I do -- it's probably the first time in my life I've ever agreed with Mayor de Blasio on anything, but I do agree that we need to see more from Joe Biden, President Joe Biden. But what you saw there from Donald Trump, there's levels of disgust that I have for it. But he's got a group of people. But if you really listen closely, and the Biden campaign or the whoever the presidential nominee is for their campaign, focuses on what he's doing, the hate tropes, and the victimization tropes, they will beat him in November.

TAPPER: Do you think there's somebody better --

SCARAMUCCI: So, that's my thought.

TAPPER: Do you think President Biden should step down from the ticket? And do you think -- and who would you rather have be the nominee if not Biden?

SCARAMUCCI: So, you know, it's honestly not fair for me to say, because I'm not a lifelong Democrat, what I've said to my Democratic friends, you tell me who the candidate is, I will work tirelessly on behalf of that candidate because I understand the danger that that man you just showed is expressing to our society. And so I just also want to point out to people quickly, he's calling for the deportation of 15 million people. So just have them explain how that's going to work with "The Handmaid's Tale" armored vehicles, and the potential concentration deportation centers on the garishness of that as well. And so yes, this guy can be beaten.

If you're telling me Joe Biden's the guy, I will do everything I can to help President Biden get reelected. If you're telling me it's not him, then you have to tell me who it is. Now, I will say this, because you and I are both students of history, Jake, the Democrats are at their best when they are bold and they go with younger candidates. So, Barack Obama at 47, young candidate going against a war veteran, beat the war veteran. Bill Clinton, generational -- Boomer generation going against the greatest generation, he beat the war veteran. And so the younger people in the Democratic Party do better.

Seventy-five percent of the voters are saying that the President is too old to do this now. I think he's done a great job. But one has to wonder what he's thinking right now, because Charles de Gaulle once said that there are graveyards filled with men that once thought they were indispensable. He could pass the baton to a younger leader, but he or she, and they could beat the pants off of Donald Trump. But if it's Joe Biden, I'll be working for Joe Biden, Jake. And I'll be doing everything I can to help him defeat this scar that is being perpetrated on the country right now.

TAPPER: Yesterday, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham posted on X, quote, "One of the first questions Why won't President Biden take a cognitive exam? President Trump will," unquote. You said you think it's, quote, "Political malpractice to suggest Biden can definitely serve another term." Do you think Trump should take the cognitive exam? Do you think Biden should?

SCARAMUCCI: So, again, these are narratives, OK? And so we know that Trump is a malefactor. We know that Trump has episodes of old age and miscalculations cognitively. But the debate was a very bad debate for the President. And so, people sliced what I said, I said, it's political. If he has something wrong with him neurologically --

TAPPER: I see. OK.

SCARAMUCCI: -- or he has something -- OK. I said that it's political malpractice for him to stay in. If he doesn't have something wrong with him, he's got to come on Jake Tapper show. He's got to do the Lester Holt interview. He's got to get out there and prove that he's up for it.

[17:25:01]

But I -- again I'm with whoever it is that's going to be running against Donald Trump because I understand the danger that Donald Trump represents. But, you know, Lindsey Graham knows better. OK? He wrote eight years ago, if we nominate this guy, we're going to get exactly what we deserve. He knows better.

And it's sad to see it. So we have a very large group of people, Ted Cruz, Lindsey Graham, Kevin McCarthy, profiles and cowardice, they know better, they know the capabilities and the mendacity and the evil of Donald Trump, but they have now fallen in line with him. And he is, as I've said on your show, he is the most anti-American presidential candidate that we've seen in the last 100 years.

TAPPER: Today, President Trump was asked about inviting former Governor Nikki Haley to the Republican National Convention in a radio interview on Fox, here's part of what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I don't know. I'm going to take a look at it. I want to see. I know she gave her delegates over. You know, there was a lot of bad blood there.

And she stayed too long. She was being soundly defeated at every place but she just wouldn't live.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: She has said that she will vote for Trump and she did turn over her delegates. Another former rival, Ron DeSantis, who is going to get a speaking spot at the Republican National Convention. What's your reaction? Should President Trump invite Nikki Haley?

SCARAMUCCI: Well, I think this was the biggest miscalculation of Governor Haley or Ambassador Haley's career. If she had a coalition 20 percent to 30 percent of the Republicans, she could have fought like an entrepreneur and reached into the nonvoters and re knit a center right coalition to defeat this nonsense, which is no longer Republicanism is actually Trumpism. And so I don't even know why she would want to speak at that event. But as soon as she wants to speak at the event, it would be wise for President Trump to have her there. Because remember, the Republicans are the smaller group in terms of registrations relative to the Democrats and the Independents.

And he wants to win, and Susie Wiles is very smart person, bringing her there and letting her speak, it'll help him knit a coalition that will get them closer to Electoral College victory. So, he should have her speak there. And my guess is he will.

TAPPER: Anthony Scaramucci, thanks so much. Good to see you, sir.

Reminder, the start of the --

SCARAMUCCI: Thank you.

TAPPER: -- Republican National Convention is just five days away. Donald Trump and his to be determined VP pick, will lay out their agenda and campaign to take back the White House. You should join CNN for complete coverage live from Milwaukee starting on Sunday morning, where I will be doing State of the Union.

Coming up next on The Lead, new video of Alec Baldwin pulling a gun in a rehearsal for his film "Rust." This was shown today in court in the involuntary manslaughter trial against him. His defense team presented it. We're going to talk about why they did that and the reaction from the prosecution coming up.

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[17:32:14]

TAPPER: Our Pop Culture Lead now, testimony started today in the trial of actor, Alec Baldwin, who has pleaded not guilty to a charge of involuntary manslaughter in the 2021 death of cinematographer, Halyna Hutchins. Hutchins was shot and killed on the New Mexico side of the film "Rust." Video from an earlier rehearsal was played in court this morning. Baldwin was in a scene where he quickly pulled out a gun that everyone thought contained in her dummy bullets.

A live round of ammunition was in that gun later when the actual filming and shooting happened. Earlier this year, the woman in charge of the guns for the set Hannah Gutierrez-Reed was tried and convicted of involuntary manslaughter and sentenced to 18 months in prison which he is serving currently. CNN's Elizabeth Wagmeister is keeping track of all developments and joins us now from Los Angeles. So what has happened in this case so far?

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: A great deal has happened just on day one, Jake. So far, two witnesses have been called to the stand. They were both responding officers who came to the set of "Rust" when Halyna Hutchins was tragically killed. But where we really got a good peek into what to expect over the next two weeks with this case was an opening statements this morning. Of course, the prosecution and the defense displayed very different narratives.

The prosecution saying that Baldwin broke the cardinal rule of handling guns, ignoring all safety concerns and acting recklessly on this set when he pointed that gun that ultimately killed Halyna Hutchins. Now, Baldwin's defense is saying he's an actor. This was not his responsibility. There are people who are responsible for the handling of that gun, namely the AD and also Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, the armorer, who we all know was already convicted and sentenced.

Now something that I think we should definitely keep an eye on. We all know that Baldwin has repeatedly said that he did not pull the trigger. But his defense is essentially saying, that shouldn't even matter. The question is, is why was there a live bullet? And how did it get there?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERLINDA JOHNSON, SPECIAL PROSECUTOR: When someone plays make-believe with a real gun in a real life workplace, and why play make-believe with that gun violates the cardinal rules of firearm safety. People's lives are endangered and someone could be killed.

ALEX SPIRO, BALDWIN'S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The actor's job is to act, to rehearse to choreograph his moves to memorize his lines. In the incident in question, he's pulling a six shooter to try to defend himself. That's why the gun has to be safe before it gets into the actors hands. His mind is somewhere else in the being of another, a century away, an outlaw. He must be able to take that weapon and use it as the person he's acting with.

[17:35:11]

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WAGMEISTER: Now, Jake, earlier this week in a pre-trial hearing, Baldwin and his defense getting a huge legal victory when the judge ruled that his role as a producer cannot come up in this trial, that essentially means that whereas the prosecution wanted to say he was a producer, he was the boss. Now they can only view him as an actor, and again, Baldwin's attorneys saying, if he's an actor, why was he responsible for this?

TAPPER: All right, Elizabeth Wagmeister, thanks so much. Appreciate it. Let's get some more insight on this case from trial attorney, Kelly Hyman. Kelly, what do you make of the prosecution telling the jury that at various times, Baldwin, played make-believe with a gun and used it as a pointer, violating all sorts of gun safety and movie set and safety rules?

KELLY HYMAN, TRIAL ATTORNEY: The gun is the center stage of the case. And here's why, he's been charged with involuntary manslaughter. And it's involuntary manslaughter with the fact that he was negligent with the firearm. In other words, that he held the gun and pointed it at people and did that. And then also in the alternative, that means potentially another count as well is the fact that he did it without due caution. That means without care that he was reckless, and they say it's common sense. If you have a gun, you shouldn't point it at someone. And that's the state's main argument.

TAPPER: Baldwin's defense attorney told the jury that everyone on the set was 100 percent sure Baldwin was using what's known as a cold gun and blaming others for loading it and failing to properly check it. Might that be believed by the jury?

HYMAN: Ultimately, it'll be up to the jury to make a determination. But it's a very strong argument, I could definitely see the jury believing that and here's why. Here's -- he's playing an actor. What is his role? He's to pretend. He's pretending that he is this person. And he's given the gun, and he is told that it's a cold gun. And what does that mean? A cold gun means that the fact that it didn't have any ammunition in it, that there was nothing in it. And so in other words, he had no idea plus, it also wasn't his role as an actor to check the gun and make sure that it was safe.

TAPPER: Baldwin's defense attorney also contends that police investigators failed to secure and mishandled the gun during the investigation and ultimately ordered a test that damaged the gun. Is that going to be a credible defense do you think?

HYMAN: That's a very strong defense because, as listeners know that the fact that the state has to prove every single element of the case. Now, according to Baldwin, he did not pull the trigger, and also that the gun was defective. And what does that mean that it went off by itself. However, the state did a test in order to test the gun. And unfortunately, the gun was damaged. So the defense says the gun was damaged. One, the fact that there was something wrong with it, and also the fact that we can't test it now potentially could give reasonable doubt because the state has to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he's guilty of the crime.

TAPPER: The defense also seems to be suggesting the prosecutors are out to get a big flashy target, Alec Baldwin. And, you know, let's just be honest, it is true that prosecutors love to get big targets. I mean, that's -- I'm not saying that as a criticism, either even, it's just true.

HYMAN: Well, a celebrity is a blessing and a curse, right? As a celebrity, a lot of people know who he is. And also it's a curse, because some people might have some pre-existing ideas of what they think he's like. But see, the attorneys have bought here, that was when they asked the potential jurors questions about whether they can be fair and impartial. So accordingly, the jury should make a determination on just the facts and not listen to anything else outside of that.

TAPPER: All right. Kelly Hyman thanks for joining us. Really appreciate it.

[17:39:08]

As NATO leaders meet here in Washington, D.C. there are questions about one particular member nation over its close ties to Russia, and its leader has close ties to Putin and to Trump. We're going to have the foreign minister for that country coming up and I'm going to ask them about all of it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:43:19]

TAPPER: Continuing with the NATO Summit here in Washington, D.C., Hungary has been a member of NATO for 25 years now. It's one of the Eastern European nations that were once part of the Warsaw Pact and oppose NATO and then changed sides after the Soviet Union collapsed. Under Prime Minister Viktor Orban, Hungary retains close sides with Russia's Vladimir Putin, to the point that Orban is trying to start a dialogue aimed at ending Russia's war in Ukraine.

With us now to discuss Hungary's Foreign Minister Peter Szijjarto. Mr. Szijjarto, thank you so much for being here. What is Hungary hoping this week's NATO Summit will accomplish?

PETER SZIJJARTO, HUNGARIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Well, you know, we have been living in the neighborhood of divorce for two and a half years. Now, you have shown the map, you'll see that we are neighbors to Ukraine. So for the last two and a half years, we have been directly confronted with the direct impacts of the war, more than 1.3 million refugees in Hungary more than 1,500 schools in Hungary. They are the kids of the refugee families are being in the road, very high inflation, very high energy prices. People dying every day, thousands on the battlefield. So we have to stop this. We have to stop this.

And the strategy, which was followed by E.U. and NATO for the last two and a half years simply didn't deliver any results because the situation is worsening. You see the brutal attacks. You see the risk of escalation. You see the cruelty on the battlefield. And I think it will get worse. So if we are not able to stop the war, there will be thousands, tens or hundreds of thousands more people dying.

TAPPER: OK.

SZIJJARTO: And Ukraine will be destroyed. We have to stop it. And what we have done in the last two and a half years was simply not successful.

[17:45:00]

TAPPER: So, but your Prime Minister Viktor Orban visited both Ukraine and Moscow last week. And he's urging Ukraine to declare or at least come to an agreement for a ceasefire to speed up peace talks. Ukrainians see that as giving in to Russia's aggression. Ukrainians see that as Russia has been invading Ukraine since 2014, first Crimea and then the Donbas region and then of course, the attack two years ago. And that, you know, doing what Orban wants them to do is just basically saying, OK, stop killing us, you can have, you know, a fourth -- a quarter of the country.

SZIJJARTO: No, I don't agree with that. Because the territorial integrity is a principle that must be respected by everyone. But what we have seen is, in the last two and a half years that this conflict does not have a solution on the battlefield, because just putting into consideration the huge amount of weapons, which have been delivered to Ukraine in the last two and a half years, just pulling the concentration what you, the American citizens have paid for, for this whole bunch of weapons, and did it improve the situation on the battlefield? No, it didn't. Russia is still there. Russia is still -- the Russian army is moving forward. Ukraine could not gain success on the battlefield.

And when we ask, so what is the final amount of weapons we should be delivered in order to check -- to turn the tide around and make Ukraine in a better shape from the perspective of the battlefield? No one can give an answer. So this shows to us that instead of the battlefield, we should look at the negotiating table, and we should encourage negotiations to be started, which brings the hope of an agreement of peace, which can ensure a durable and fair peace in the region. So no battlefield solution, negotiating table diplomacy, diplomatic channels, talking to each other, dialogue, should take over.

TAPPER: Yes. Given all the attention in the United States on President Biden's health as well as Prime Minister Orban's close relationship with Donald Trump, do you think that basically, relationships with U.S. are kind of on hold? It does seem and maybe you think it's unfair, it does seem that Prime Minister Orban would like Trump to win.

SZIJJARTO: Look, we look at politics as a job based on experience. And our experience is that when President Trump was in office, the U.S. Hungary relationship was the best ever before him and after him, the relationship is tragic from the perspective of the political perspective because on defense, we are working together very well. We are a reliable NATO ally, fulfilling the 2 percent criteria, as it has been agreed in Wales. On the economy, U.S. is the number two investor in Hungary. More than 1,500 U.S.-based companies are present in Hungary. They are super happy with all the circumstances we provide to them.

But politically speaking, during the Democratic administration, we had the tragic, tragic relationship. So we want good U.S.-Hungarian relationship. And our experience says that when President Trump is the -- is president, then we have a much better hope for good relationships. So therefore, I mean, you know, the two leaders, Prime Minister Orban, President Trump enjoy very good personal relationship, very good friendship. So obviously, from the perspective of experience, when President Trump was in office, it was better for us.

TAPPER: All right, Hungarian Foreign Minister Peter Szijjarto, thanks so much. Appreciate it. Hope you enjoy your time in our little city here.

SZIJJARTO: Thank you so much.

[17:48:32]

TAPPER: Not even a full week in office, the new British prime minister is in D.C. and sitting down any minute with President Biden. We're starting to get a glimpse of that Oval Office meeting. We'll bring you those pictures back in a moment.

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[17:52:38]

TAPPER: At any moment, President Biden will host the new U.K. Prime Minister in the Oval Office ahead of dinner with NATO leaders tonight. That's all ahead of tomorrow's major news conference that Biden is set to give. Let's go to CNN's MJ Lee at the White House. MJ, the stakes for President Biden are pretty big.

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Jake. This is of course one of many engagements that President Biden is having this week with foreign leaders as the U.S. is hosting the NATO Summit just across town. He is going to be meeting in the Oval Office with the Prime Minister of the U.K. just days after a landslide victory for the Labour Party over there.

But Jake, you can easily imagine if this NATO Summit had taken place, even two weeks ago, the vibes and the mood would have been completely different. You can very easily imagine. This would have been a week when the President would have felt entirely in his comfort zone, really embracing and relishing the role that he has played and have enjoyed playing being that -- this American leader on the global stage and trying to draw that contrast of everything that he has done to restore American leadership on the global stage and saying that Donald Trump would have done very much the opposite. And instead he is just confronted with a barrage of criticism and questions about his own political future, while he is trying to play this role.

TAPPER: The White House, MJ is responding to the subpoenas issued to three White House aides by the Republican leaders of the House Oversight Committee.

LEE: Yes, this was actually just moments after the President left the NATO conference and make his way back to the White House. The House Oversight Committee's Republican chairman, announcing subpoenas for three White House aides that he claims has been running interference for President Biden and covering up, quote, his declining cognitive state, the White House spokesperson and Sam saying in a statement that like everything Congressman Comer has done over the past year, these subpoenas are a baseless political stunt intended for him to get media attention.

This is just one small example, Jake, of how Republicans have been very much relishing the position that the President has been and watching this drama unfold on the Democratic side.

[17:54:48]

TAPPER: All right, MJ Lee, thanks so much. And we're going to be right back with our Last Leads, next.

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[17:58:49]

TAPPER: In our last leads, Democratic Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio- Cortez of New York has filed articles of impeachment against U.S. Supreme Court justices, Samuel Alito and Clarence Thomas. The Congresswoman says the justices failed to disclose gifts they received while serving on the court and refused to recuse themselves from cases where, quote, financial and personal entanglements, unquote, have created a, quote, unchecked corruption crisis on the Supreme Court. Seventh House Democrats backed AOC's move but it is of course likely to fail in the Republican controlled House.

A federal bankruptcy judge promises a decision by Friday on the case involving former New York Mayor and Trump personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani. Depending upon the judge's decision, Giuliani could lose control of his multimillion dollar apartments in Manhattan and Palm Beach, Florida. Giuliani's creditors content he's using the bankruptcy laws to avoid among other things, paying $148 million to a pair of Georgia election workers that a jury concluded he defamed after the 2020 election.

In our out of this world lead right now, two astronauts who are stranded aboard the International Space Station spoke in a video interview today, the Boeing Starliner spaceship that took the two to space has been plagued with problems and cannot bring them back home right now. Despite seeing no return ship, the pair's spirits could not be higher, literally higher. Ultimately they say they trust their team and the science to bring them back.

[18:00:17]

You can follow The Lead on X at TheLeadCNN. If you ever missed an episode of The Lead, you can listen to the show whence you get your podcasts. The news continues now on CNN. I'll see you tomorrow.