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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Falsely Suggests Harris "Happened To Turn Black"; Rep. James Clyburn, (D-SC), Is Interviewed About Harris' Campaign; Hamas Political Leader Assassinated While Visiting Iran; 9/11 Families Seek To Link Hijackers To Saudi Government; Journalist Appeals Court Ruling Holding Her In Contempt For Refusing To Reveal Confidential Sources. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired July 31, 2024 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:03]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour, never before seen evidence just released relating to their horrific terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001. It seems to be evidence that victims families have been pleading for to be released for years. So are they closer to any answers?

Well, the head of 9/11 justice who lost his father in the attacks is going to join us. Plus, one of the political leaders of Hamas assassinated. It's a move the White House says, well, complicate efforts to get a ceasefire in hostage deal negotiated with Hamas. And it comes just hours after a top Hezbollah commander was killed. We're live on the ground in the Middle East with new details.

And leading this hour, Donald Trump making a play for Black voters, speaking at a conference of Black journalists this afternoon. But the interview was not friendly with the president -- former president repeatedly calling one of the moderators rude, falsely claiming that Kamala Harris, quote, "happened to turn Black" a few years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've known her a long time, indirectly, not directly, very much. And she was always of Indian heritage and she was only promoting Indian heritage. I didn't know she was Black until a number of years ago when she happened to turn Black. And now she wants to be known as Black. So I don't know, is she Indian or is she Black?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is always identified as a Black woman when she historically been to college.

TRUMP: But you know what, I respect either one. I respect either one, but she obviously doesn't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Again, just to reiterate, she went to Howard University. Kamala Harris has always identified as Black. Let's bring in CNN anchor Sara Sidner, "New York Times" White House Correspondent Zolan Kanno-Youngs.

Zolan, you were in the room for this Q and A, what was the response from the journalists, the audience there like?

ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: You definitely, Jake, you know, heard some gasps in the crowd at that point, particularly when the former president questioned the race, the identity, the ethnicity of the vice president. That's like, just to paint the picture here, I mean, this is NABJ. This is the National Association of Black Journalists. So, you have many Black women in the crowd as well who are hearing, you know, the former president at this point, who had already been disrespectful at that point to one of the moderators, ABC's Rachel Scott. And you haven't basically sharing a stage with three Black women asking respectful questions, but good driven questions, and then turning to questioning the race of the vice president.

I mean, there were definitely some that were surprised in the crowd. And you heard that. And look, that was only one piece of this really unusual event thus far in the campaign. The former president also kind of went back to his usual playbook of spreading falsehoods about immigration, trying to almost, you know, point to, you know, soaring border crossings and illegal immigration, almost as a way to sort of pit the immigrant community against the Black community. He once again was asked about his Black jobs comment during the debate.

He dodged questions on his pick for vice president for his running mate, JD Vance. So just -- I mean, the -- throughout the room there was tension kind of hanging over the room beforehand as journalists and attendees just prepared for this event. But that, that one where he questioned the vice president's identity will definitely go down as one of the more sort of moments we look back on when reflecting on this.

TAPPER: And Sara Sidner, the Trump campaign has issued a statement from Trump campaign chair Lynne Patton or a spokesperson for the campaign, Lynne Patton, attacking the media for the event, saying, in part, members of the media need to make a decision and answer if their goal is to unite the country or further divide us. Because based on the unhinged and unprofessional commentary directed toward President Trump by certain members of the media, many media elites certainly or clearly want to see us remain divided. This is unacceptable. It goes on to say, today's biased and rude treatment from certain hostile members of the media will backfire massively. You would think that the media would have learned something from their repeat episodes of fake outrage ever since President Trump first came down the escalator in 2015 but some refused to get it.

This will be their undoing in 2024. That's from Lynne Patton, senior advisor. That's not the whole statement, but that's some of it, Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So the media's job is to ask questions. And sometimes the questions are difficult. They're difficult questions to answer. They are asking the questions on behalf of the public. That is the literal job of the journalists here. And the question that was asked in the very beginning wasn't a happy question, but it was a question that was on everyone's mind, both in that room and in the African American community in particular. And the question was, how do Black folks trust you when you have had someone inside of your Mar-a-Lago who was a white supremacist, Nick Fuentes, when you have said things to Black journalists to their faces, particularly Black female journalists, calling them stupid or calling their questions stupid or dumb? So these were questions that really were on the minds of the folks in the room and outside of the room, especially here in Chicago.

[17:05:15]

And so a candidate coming into a room of journalists and expecting to be high fived and be sort of uniting, that's just not reality. And I think that -- if that's what they were expecting, they came to the wrong place. This is a room full of journalists.

And by the way, for all the controversy surrounding whether or not Donald Trump should or should not have been here, whether or not NABJ should have reached out, NABJ since 1976, has been inviting presumptive nominees for the presidency here. And Donald Trump accepted. And the room was absolutely packed. There was not an empty chair in that room. These are all either prospective journalists or aspiring journalists or journalists who have been in the game a very long time.

The questions that were asked were pointed, but they were certainly questions that the public would like to hear. The response to that is the literal job of those inside that room. Now, it was clear that Donald Trump felt attacked by the very first question. And from that moment forward, things derailed every time Rachel Scott from ABC would ask a question, he would go on the attack towards her instead of answering the question. But there were a lot of different questions that were asked.

And one of the ones that got probably one of the biggest gas, beyond trying to question Kamala Harris race and who she considered herself to be, it was a question about January 6, and it was a question about whether or not he would pardon those who took part in the injuring of police officers, 140 police officers, to be exact, during the attack of the Capitol. And he said he would, if they are innocent. And the retort from the journalists there was, well, they were convicted by a court of law. And his response was, well, you know, those courts, and he started down that pathway. That got a bit of a reaction as well.

But remember, again, this is a room for a journalist. This was not the general public generally let inside to this. And so, most of the responses were muted. They were listening to try to understand what his responses to the questions would be so that they could then go out and report some of what he said, Jake.

TAPPER: Yes. And Isaac, this, I don't know the whole response that Senator JD Vance, Donald Trump's running mate, has issued, but this seems a better response from where I sit. He said, "President Trump walked right into the NABJ," the National Association of Black Journalist, "conference and showed he had the courage to take tough questions, while Kamala Harris continues to hide from any scrutiny or unfriendly media like the coward she is." I don't know about the coward part of that. But the idea that, look, Donald Trump went into the lion's den and took questions from journalists and Vice President Harris has been the presumptive nominee now for, whatever, nine or 10 days, and she hasn't done an interviewer taking questions, that seems fair game.

EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Sure. That's a process question, right? That's how they're doing --

TAPPER: But it's not attacking the media or changing the subject for what he said.

DOVERE: Right. Sure. But what the former president running to be president again said is important here. It's important what he said of the things we've talked about so far. He was asked actually about JD Vance and whether Vance was ready to be president on day one, and he did not answer yes. He said that Vance has done a bunch of impressive things and the vice president doesn't matter, right?

Put all of these things together, and this was more that we've heard from Donald Trump on a lot of topics here. A lot of important topics on race, on Kamala Harris, who, by the way, he, I think the entire time, only referred to as Kamala by her first name, never Harris.

TAPPER: I think he mispronounced it also.

DOVERE: Yes, he did.

TAPPER: He called it Kamala or something.

DOVERE: Yes.

TAPPER: It's -- for everybody out there, it's Kamala like the -- like a comma in punctuation, Kamala, just clearing that up. So nobody should have any problems going forward. Go ahead. I'm sorry.

DOVERE: No, I think that's an important public service announcement, apparently at this point. But we got a lot of Donald Trump here and actually a lot more of Donald Trump than we've gotten at any point since the debate.

TAPPER: Yes.

DOVERE: Because he has been doing interviews with people who are pretty clearly in his corner.

TAPPER: Yes.

DOVERE: And the other thing that I think is important about what happened today is, look, we don't know whether there will be another debate. He has been saying no and Harris has been trying to goad him into it. But if it does happen, it will be Donald Trump on stage with a woman of color trying to figure out that dynamic. We saw a little bit of what happens when three women of color are on stage with him and ask him pointed questions and put him on defense. And if that's the preview for it, then I'm sure that in the Harris headquarters, they're pretty pleased with what came out of it.

TAPPER: And Zolan, Mr. Trump also did not seem to give a clear answer when he was asked about Republicans calling Harris a DEI candidate, a diversity candidate. What was your take on that?

[17:10:02]

KANNO-YOUNGS: No, he didn't. I mean, it was sort of the same sort of dodging that we've heard often when he's asked a pointed question, like he was on that stage. Instead of answering the question directly, he instead resort to being combative with the reporter on -- with one of the moderators. And, you know, that type of combative sort of nature and back and forth, maybe that is sort of energizing for his base. I think that's been shown to sort of point it back and attack the media.

But, you know, as this campaign continues to sort of point to poll numbers showing that he's making inroads, particularly with Black men, and is trying to also win over independents and also suburban women, just -- it's tough to realize how sort of showing that kind of disrespect to a moderator on stage and three Black women in questioning vice president's identity as well is going to help you in that pursuit of trying to, you know, reach voters outside of your base.

TAPPER: Sara, what did attendees of the NABG conference -- NABJ conference have to say after the event?

SIDNER: There was a lot of head shaking and disappointment. I think disappointment is probably one of the very strong emotions because they were hoping that perhaps, maybe they would get some robust answers to the questions that particularly the African American community would like the answers to. They didn't get that. They got a lot of going around the question, they got a lot of avoiding the question and a lot of attacks on the moderators, but not substantive answers to many of the questions asked. Although, you know, he should be given credit for showing up into a place where he was going to get some hard questions that any candidate should be able to field and to answer.

And there is also a lot of consternation, to be honest with you, about whether or not this was the right thing to do without having both candidates here, whether or not to go forward. But, you know, look, if someone could potentially become the next president of the United States, any journalist is going to want to take that opportunity to ask questions. And in particular, the Black community has some very specific questions. And one of the things that I think he could have done that he didn't, it didn't seem he did his homework on some of the questions asked, particularly one asked about Sonya Massey, the woman who was a mother killed in her own home after calling police to help her, to protect her, and ended up dying within seconds of what no one can figure out why the officer responded that way. He was fired.

But he said, I don't know, really about this case, but I think maybe, and it was like, well, would you give him immunity, you've talked about giving police immunity, and he sort of waffled on that question. But he didn't see that he had done his homework on questions that would be pretty obvious for a candidate to come into an NABJ, a National Association of Black Journalists, to have to be able to answer. So, disappointment was probably, and frustration probably the two big emotions in the room.

TAPPER: So, one last question, Isaac. This whole idea of Donald Trump put forward that she identified that Vice President Harris identified as Indian until recently. I've known of Kamala Harris since she was attorney general of California, and I have never known her to identify as anything other than a Black woman. Obviously, her mother was -- I believe the mother was an immigrant from India.

DOVERE: Yes.

TAPPER: Her father Jamaican. So she's always been biracial, but she's always identified as a Black woman. Went to Howard University. Have you ever heard this before? Even among the fevered swamps of the Internet, the idea that she's not -- she only recently started.

Did he just make that up? Where did that come from?

DOVERE: I think it came from the fevered swamps of parts of the Internet.

TAPPER: Yes.

DOVERE: I have covered Harris for a long time, all through her presidential campaign. Last time around the vice presidency, before that when she was in the Senate, no. As you point out, it's not just her biological heritage, but the decision to go to Howard University --

TAPPER: Yes.

DOVERE: -- has been raised to me for years as part of Harris's identification with the American Black experience. Even though her father was Jamaican, her mother Indian born, and she grew up part of her life in Montreal in Canada, right?

TAPPER: Right.

DOVERE: She lived in America, lived in America as a Black woman. And deciding at 18 that where she wanted to go to college was Howard was the first step of a very clear sense of herself as a Black woman in America. By the way, there are pictures of her in Saris and she's --

TAPPER: Sure, of course. Her mom is Indian.

DOVERE: Right. Yes. And she's very proud of that heritage. Kamala is a name that comes from that heritage. But this is not true that she just turned.

TAPPER: Wild stuff. All right, Isaac, Zolan and Sara, thanks, all of you, for joining us. Congressman James Clyburn widely considered one of the key figures who secured the White House for President Biden. So what does he think about the state of the Harris campaign and her impending decision about a running mate? Well, you can find out next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:18:46]

TAPPER: Back with more on our 2024 lead, tonight, Vice President Kamala Harris will attend a fundraiser and Black sorority event in Houston, Texas. CNN's Arlette Saenz is live for us in Houston.

Arlette, how is the Harris campaign responding to these remarks by Donald Trump at today's NABJ convention, where he questions her racial identification?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN HOST: Well, Jake, Vice President Kamala Harris is set to land here in Houston in the coming hour. And one thing to watch very closely is whether she will decide to address these comments from former President Donald Trump questioning her identity head on. So far, the campaign has released a statement addressing Trump's appearance at NABJ overall, they've painted that as chaotic and divisive. The communications director, Michael Tyler, writing in this statement, quote, "Trump lobbed personal attacks and insults at Black journalists the same way he did throughout his presidency. Donald Trump has proven he cannot unite America, so he attempts to divide us."

Now, one thing that's notable in the statement the campaign released is that they did not directly reference Trump's comments questioning Harris's identity as a Black woman. Instead, the pushback has really fallen so far to her allies. White House press secretary Karine Jean- Pierre was asked about Trump's comments in real time during today's press briefings. And here is how she responded to that comment.

[17:20:11]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: As a person of color, as a Black woman who is in this position that is standing before you at this podium behind this lectern, what he just said, what you just read out to me, is repulsive. It's insulting. And, you know, no one has any right to tell someone who they are, how they identify. That is no one's right. It is someone's own decisions.

She is the vice president of the United States, Kamala Harris. We have to put some respect on her name, period.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now, Harris tonight is set to speak at an event for Sigma Gamma Rho, that is a Black sorority that is part of the Divine Nine. The venue itself could serve as a type of response in and of itself, given the group that Harris will be addressing. Part of our focus here is trying to mobilize Black women voters heading into this election, and we'll see if Harris decides to take on Trump's comments head on in her speech tonight.

TAPPER: All right, Arlette Saenz in Houston for us. Thank you so much.

Earlier today, before Donald Trump addressed the NABJ, I spoke with South Carolina Democratic congressman James Clyburn for an interview about the state of the 2024 race at this very important moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: And with me now is Democratic Congressman James Clyburn of South Carolina.

A recent CNN poll shows Vice President Kamala Harris making gains with Black voters in this presidential election beyond what President Biden had been able to achieve last month. Seventy-eight percent of Black voters say they will vote for Harris, 15 percent for Trump. Between April and June, 70 percent of Black voters said they supported Biden. And there was also an enthusiasm gap, noticeable.

But I want you to listen to this clip. This is from an MSNBC voter panel that gets at the exact group of Black voters that Donald Trump is trying to make inroads with. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES COLEMAN, MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST: By show of hands, how many of you know a Black man who has expressed to you that they're committed to voting for Donald Trump? For the brothers who have told you that or said that to you, has the emergence of Kamala Harris changed that for those brothers?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: All right. For, I don't know if you got to see that clip or people listening on SiriusXM, but that was an MSNBC analyst asking for Black men if they had heard of Black men that are going to vote for Donald Trump. All four raised their hands. And then asked if Kamala Harris changing the race changed that with their Black male friends, and all four said, no, it did not. What's your take on that?

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): I don't think that's true at all. The fact of the matter is, I don't believe for one moment that Donald Trump will get 15 percent of the African American vote. That's not going to happen. I know it was 13 percent they said before. I question that number as well.

I don't think for one moment that her entrance into the race did not change anything with Black people. I don't know who those four people were. I could not see them, but I would hope that they do not reflect what's going on in this country. I know this. They do not reflect the Black people that I talk to.

And I'm an AME, African Methods Episcopal. I'm a 33rd degree Prince Hall Mason. I'm a member of the Divine Nine, and I interact with all of these people, and I do not see 15 percent among them voting for Donald Trump. And every one of them have been energized by the entrance of Kamala Harris in this race.

TAPPER: So, speaking of Vice President Harris, she is obviously going to pick her running mate imminently. What do you make of this conversation that seemed to pop up as soon as she became the likely successor to Biden on the ticket that she needed to pick a white man as her running mate? And right now, at least according to the reporting I've read everywhere, all of her top picks are white men, whether it's Governor Beshear, Secretary Buttigieg, Senator Kelly, Governor Shapiro, Governor Walz, all of them white men. What do you make of that?

CLYBURN: Well, you know, we are defined in this country by our experiences, and a lot of those experiences come about because of gender and skin color. And I do believe there's nothing wrong with bouncing a ticket based upon backgrounds and experiences. That's what Barack Obama did when he picked Joe Biden because he needed someone with Joe Biden's background and experience. And to the extent to which skin color provided him with those experiences, that's what it is.

[17:25:09]

But when we had the election of John F. Kennedy, he picked Lyndon Baines Johnson because of a different background and experiences to bring that kind of balance to the ticket. But there's nothing wrong with that. So I've seen the so called finalists among her selections or her expectations to a point, and that's good. I think all of those people are very qualified and all of them will bring some balance to this ticket based upon backgrounds and experiences.

TAPPER: Congressman James Clyburn of South Carolina, always good to have you on, sir. Thank you so much.

CLYBURN: Thank you very much for having me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Are the ceasefire and hostage talks now in even greater jeopardy? We're going to go live to the Middle East where new developments are coming in every minute. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:30:09]

TAPPER: Back with our World Lead, Iranian leaders are seething and vowing revenge after major leaders of Iran backed group Hezbollah and Hamas, both of them considered terrorist groups by the U.S., were killed just hours apart. And while Israel has neither confirmed nor denied being behind the Hamas leader's assassination. Today, Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu said Israel is, quote, ready for anything. CNN's Jeremy Diamond reports from Israel as the region braces for what comes next.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tonight, a red flag of revenge flies over Iran and a region teeters ever closer to the brink. Ismail Haniyeh, Hamas' political leader, assassinated in Tehran, where he was meeting with the Iranian supreme leader, Hamas says a rocket struck Haniyeh in his room, killing him and his bodyguard. Israel will neither confirm nor deny its involvement, but Iran and Hamas say Israel was behind the strike and are promising to respond. Iranian supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, vowing it is our duty to take revenge. The Israeli prime minister answering hours later.

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): We are prepared for any scenario and will stand united and determined against any threat. Israel will exact a very heavy price for any aggression against us from any arena.

DIAMOND (voice-over): Haniyeh's assassination came just hours after Israel carried out another strike in the Lebanese capital, killing Fouad Shukr, Hezbollah's senior most military commander. Back to back strikes on senior leaders of two Iranian proxies, now ratcheting up the risk of a regional war and the dangers of miscalculation. Haniyeh, who openly celebrated Hamas massacre of hundreds of Israeli civilians on October 7th, has been on Israel's kill list for months.

NETANYAHU (through translator): I instructed the Mossad to act against Hamas leaders wherever they are.

DIAMOND (voice-over): But Haniyeh was also viewed as a key figure in ongoing ceasefire negotiations at a critical time, leading Qatar's prime minister to wonder, how can mediation succeed when one party assassinates the negotiator on the other side?

SHARONE LIPSHITZ, DAUGHTER OF TWO HOSTAGES: I have no sympathy for Haniyeh. He was dancing on the 7 October. But I have huge sympathy for all the people, for all the hostages and their families and people caught in this nightmare, innocent civilians. And we -- it's hard to see how it will advance a deal.

DIAMOND (voice-over): In Gaza, Haniyeh's killings seen by some as confirmation that Israel wants to prolong the war.

AMJADAL SHAWWA, POLITICAL ANALYST: It is clear that the occupation has a clear intention not to reach any calm, ceasefire or to stop the aggression. Rather, it continues to practice this aggression at all levels. And through this assassination, there is no doubt that it seeks to escalate this position and not move towards any calm.

DIAMOND (voice-over): That calm remains as elusive as ever. Like other journalists around the world. Al Jazeera's, Ismail al-Ghoul and Rami al-Rifi spent the day reporting on Haniyeh's assassination. From in front of Haniyeh's house, al-Ghoul spoke of the Israeli airstrike that destroyed the home months ago. Moments after leaving the site, Al Jazeera says another Israeli airstrike hit a car leaving the scene. The two journalists were killed on the spot.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DIAMOND (on camera): And, Jake, amid all of this, the White House quite starkly acknowledging that the events of the last couple of days certainly not helping to lower the temperature in the Middle East. And they're very concerned about escalation in line with that, Antony Blinken, the Secretary of State, speaking with the Qatari prime minister, asking him to convey messages to Hezbollah and Iran urging de-escalation and urging them not to retaliate for these strikes. Jake?

TAPPER: All right, Jeremy Diamond, thanks so much. I want to bring in CNN's Nick Robertson. We have a special treat. He's in studio for us. Nick, how is the death, the assassination of Haniyeh, the leader, political leader of Hamas, likely to impact the efforts to get any sort of ceasefire hostage release deal?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: So, number one, he was seen as a moderate, if you've moderate in terms of Hamas --

TAPPER: What is a moderate member of Hamas?

ROBERTSON: Less extreme than the real extreme, like Yahya Sinwar, who's still hanging out in a tunnel in -- in -- in Gaza. He -- but -- but I think to the point of whatever interlocutor you have for negotiations, if you kill the interlocutor, you're, A, sending a signal. You don't want to interlocute for a time -- for a period of time and the organization Hamas is going to recoil. But you have something with an interlocutor who you've been talking to through Qatar, through the Egyptians for months and months and months.

You have the look in the eye. You kind of know when you say something to the guy across the table, OK, how is he taking that? You're reading him. You want to understand what he's going to take away and pass on to his -- his bosses. And -- and -- and how does he respond? Does he flinch when you say things? What's his body language? You kind of build that level of knowledge that is wholly gone. So what does that mean? You have just made the negotiations improbable, impossible, unlikely, way over the horizon.

[17:35:17]

TAPPER: And Iran has already vowed to retaliate since, A, they fund Hamas and, B, this took place on their own territory. What might that retaliation look like?

ROBERTSON: They're kind of in a corner, right? New president, he was supposed to be a moderate. He was getting inaugurated.

TAPPER: Again, relative, quote unquote, moderate.

ROBERTSON: It -- it -- it's entirely relative. And, of course, in the context of Iran --

TAPPER: Right.

ROBERTSON: -- you know, the -- the Supreme Council and the Ayatollah have a big, huge say in -- in who gets to run, and they don't kind of count the votes, but they can certainly shift the votes. So, yes, a relative moderate, but he's just then the job. I mean, Ismail Haniyeh was visiting him for the inauguration. He'd gone for the funeral of the Raisi, who, the last president who died in a helicopter crash. So they're kind of boxed in right? You've -- you've killed a guy on their doorstep. You've -- you've killed a favored friend who's doing your bidding around the world. What are you going to do? Well, they're said it, the -- the supreme leader said it's going to be hurtful and it's going to be painful how they'll strike back.

The question is, will they go for a big onslaught of missiles like they did in April? But that didn't work out, thanks to U.S. help and quiet allies in the region providing some quiet assistance. Will they do that? Will they fall flat on their faces? They can't do nothing. And so, you know, where -- where we stand at the moment, Iran has many ways it can hit back. It the -- it's shown with through all these proxies, Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis in Yemen, that it's got multiple ways. Look, the Houthis landed a drone in Tel Aviv just barely a week ago.

TAPPER: And killed -- and killed a man. Yes.

ROBERTSON: And killed a man, exactly. So they have a lot of options here. So will they try to strike at Israel, inside Israel? You bet, because they were struck in their capital, in their heart.

TAPPER: All right, Nick Robertson, thanks so much. Good to see you in studio.

Today, a milestone in the 9/11 family's decades long search for justice. Troves of newly unsealed evidence they say clearly links the Saudi government to the 9/11 attack. We're going to talk to the son of a 9/11 victim, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:41:15]

TAPPER: In our World Lead, never before seen evidence related to the September 11th terrorist attacks on the United States was shown in a critical court hearing earlier today, raising new questions about what the Saudi government might have known about the attack that killed nearly 3,000 people. Evidence families of those who were killed on 9/11 have been asking to be unsealed for years now. CNN is still waiting for that evidence to hit the public docket.

We will be sure to show it to you when it does. Remember, the 9/11 commission established by Congress said in 2004 that they found, quote, no evidence that the Saudi government as an institution or senior Saudi officials individually funded, unquote, al-Qaeda. Now since that report 20 years ago, a slow drip from court cases and major pieces of information redacted by U.S. government officials have come out.

One trove of evidence came last month. This shows Omar al-Bayoumi, whom the FBI confirmed was at the time a Saudi intelligence asset who supported two lead hijackers from 9/11 filming this chilling video that we're showing you right now. This appears to be him casing the U.S. Capitol as the attacks were being planned in 1999. Here's one part of that newly released, more than hour long video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (though translator): We greet you, the esteemed brothers, and we welcome you from Washington. Washington, the American capital city. This is the Congress. Here is where the decisions are made and the procedures are taken.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Here's another clip where he actually goes inside the U.S. Capitol.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (though translator): From the inside the model. This is an entrance. It leads to the upper floor. The working day is about to end. Theirs, of course, not mine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Earlier, the attorney representing the government of Saudi Arabia, the Kingdom, insisted that Bayoumi knew nothing about the planned attack and met two of those hijackers just coincidentally. And joining us now to discuss Brett Eagleson, he's the president of 9/11 justice. His father, Bruce Eagleson, was killed in the September 11th terrorist attack. Brett, you were in court today more than 200 exhibits were unsealed. What is your main takeaway?

BRETT EAGLESON, PRESIDENT, 9/11 JUSTICE: The main takeaway is, wow. Shocking. This is the first time that the 9/11 families have seen, presented in a full story all the evidence that our legal team, former FBI agents, former national security officials, have amassed over the past 23 years about the Saudi Arabian government's involvement in 9/11. Now, it's interesting you note that you mentioned the 9/11 commission report on your lead in.

And all I heard today from the Kingdom lawyers were commission report, commission report, commission report. Their story hasn't changed. They're still relying on the '04 commission report. Everything that we've talked about today is post commission report. The video which you just presented to your audience was not even seen by the 9/11 commission. So as far as we're concerned, the 9/11 commission report is null and void. We need to rewrite the history of 9/11 and today's case were hundreds of family members, for the first time ever was a monumental development because were able to finally see and understand what our lawyers have known for 23 years.

TAPPER: So regarding this al-Bayoumi casing video, what is your assessment of why this video was hidden from public view and specifically from 9/11 families view for 23 years?

[17:45:03]

EAGLESON: It's incredible, Jake, and the fact is that we didn't even get this video from our own government despite a Biden presidential executive order, despite bipartisan support in both bodies of Congress, despite pleadings with former President Trump, President Biden, our government did not give us this video. This video came from the British government. It was the British authorities who obtained this video and gave it to our legal team. And it was shown today in court. And it was -- it -- it -- it -- there other parts of it that were shown. There were parts where Bayoumi was shown with the hijackers hosting them at his house. That was never known before. There were parts of it where there were other Saudi government officials, brand -- brand new to anyone that in Bayoumi's apartment there were senior Saudi government officials with him, higher ranking than Bayoumi himself, hosting the hijackers, slicing meat for the hijackers, passing food around.

They were addressing each other in very dear -- very respectable ways, meaning that they were using a form of Islam that shows a very high level of respect for these individuals. So today we learned a lot. I'm still digesting it. And it's -- it's just, there's -- there's more coming, too. And today was a very, very good day for justice, for transparency, and a huge day for the families.

TAPPER: What's your message to President Biden? If he's watching right now, what would you tell him?

EAGLESON: Stand with the families. Stand with the Americans. You -- you know, you did right by issuing your executive order. Now that your executive order is being followed through, now that the information is coming to light, we need your help, President Biden, and we also need your help, former President Trump, and we need your help, candidate Harris. We need these presidential candidates because these two, Trump and Harris, are going to have to deal with this. This issue is not going away. We've been doing this for 23 years. We're more incensed than ever. We're more invigorated than ever. This is going to be a campaign issue. This is going to be a political issue.

So we suggest that the two current candidates for office take this head on and stand with the families put America first. I've heard that one, you know, former President Trump runs on Make America Great Again and put America first. Well, stop cutting deals with the kingdom of Saudi Arabia and stand with the families. And I'm waiting to hear how Vice President Harris comes out on this topic.

TAPPER: As you noted, your lawyer, the lawyer for the 9/11 families, argued in court today that the 9/11 commission did not have enough information to do an adequate analysis of all the evidence. Do you think that the official commission report needs to be updated and revised?

EAGLESON: I -- I would call for a new commission report. I listened to three hours of testimony today from the 9/11 lawyers which cited and referenced hundreds of documents which the 9/11 commission never had the luxury of reviewing. Keep in mind, there is a 12-year secret FBI investigation called Operation Encore that began in 2006. Well, the 9/11 Commission report ended in 2004, so how can we have it over a decade's worth of FBI materials that the 9/11 commission never had the luxury of. And the -- and the kingdom and the American public and the American government is still relying upon the findings of the 9/11 commission report. The 9/11 commission is null and void at this point.

TAPPER: Brett Eagleson, thank you so much. And wherever the politicians are, we here at The Lead, we here at CNN, we are with you and the other 9 -- 9/11 families, may your father's memory be a blessing.

EAGLESON: Thank you Jake. That's so great to hear. Thank you so much for having us.

[17:48:39]

TAPPER: A fight over the First Amendment and a moment challenging the limits of our freedom of speech. I'm going to talk to a woman at the center of that all. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:52:41]

TAPPER: Every day, journalists rely on confidential sources to gather and report critical information that we then deliver to you, the viewer, because it is important for you to know what's going on. And sometimes that information does not come from people who want to have their names attached to it. What happens, however, when the government forces reporters to divulge who their confidential sources are? What happens when they hold reporters in contempt of court if they refuse to share their names? It's a case that could have a profound impact on journalism throughout the United States.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CATHERINE HERRIDGE, JOURNALIST: This case is about so much more than a single journalist, a single series of stories, or just one network. It's going to have a ripple effect on everyone.

TAPPER (voice-over): Confidential sources are the lifeblood of investigative journalism. And for veteran journalist, Catherine Herridge, they're worth fighting for.

HERRIDGE: Confidential sources are really the DNA if you're an investigative journalist, if you can't give credible promise of confidentiality, no government official is coming forward, no whistleblower is coming forward.

TAPPER (voice-over): Herridge was an investigative correspondent who covered national security and intelligence matters for decades. In 2017, she broadcast a series of stories for "Fox" about a Chinese American scientist who had been investigated by the FBI. The scientist was never charged, but nearly two years later, the scientists sued the FBI and other federal agencies, claiming information collected during the FBI investigation had been unlawfully leaked to "Fox."

HERRIDGE: When I received a subpoena asking me to disclose confidential source information, I had to pinch myself.

TAPPER (voice-over): A federal judge demanded Herridge give up her source. She said no. So in February, the judge held her in contempt.

TAPPER: At one point, you were facing fines of $800 a day. And how concerned were you?

HERRIDGE: My fines are paused, pending the appeal. And I'm grateful for that. But $800, that's crippling fines for anyone. And one of our children asked me as I was moving through the subpoena process, you know, are we going to lose our house? Are you going to go to jail?

TAPPER: At the time, the judge wrote that while he, quote, recognizes the paramount importance of a free press in our society, the court also has its own role to play in upholding the law and safeguarding judicial authority. This case could have serious implications for journalists across the nation, and it could have a chilling effect on confidential sources.

[17:55:05]

HERRIDGE: I mean, if you don't have a credible plant of confidentiality, your toolbox is empty. And I really fear that these protections, if they're not in place, it could really be the end of investigative journalism.

TAPPER (voice-over): The case has also renewed pressure on Congress to pass the Press Act, which would limit when the government can force a journalist to reveal their sources.

HERRIDGE: I think a lot of journalists deal with confidential sources day in and day out, and they feel, I'll go to the mat if I have to for these people. I'm actually having to do that in this case, and I feel it with all of my heart that we have to have these protections at the federal level, and it's an opportunity for Congress to really step up.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: When reached for comment, the scientist who is suing maintains that the identity of Catherine Herridge's source is central her -- to her claim against the government. Our last leads are next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:00:04]

TAPPER: Here's some breaking news just into CNN, the United States government has just struck a plea deal with three top 9/11 defendants, that includes the man accused of being the mastermind of the horrific September 11th attacks, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, or KSM, and two of his accomplices. They're all being held at Guantanamo Bay. "The New York Times" is reporting that the deal will allow KSM and the others to avoid the death penalty. The news continues now on CNN.