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The Lead with Jake Tapper

First Trump-Harris Debate Is Just One Week Away; Trump Pleads Not Guilty To New Jan. 6 Charges; Dem Alsobrooks Looks To Hold Off Hogan In M.D. Senate Race; John McCain's Son Blasts Trump's Arlington Visit As "Violation"; Jeffrey Goldberg's New Book Examines Heroism & "Cowardice" Of Trump; Chicago Suspect Charged With 4 Counts Of First Degree Murder. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired September 03, 2024 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:00:08]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

This hour, a brazen and horrific attack on four people who appeared to be sleeping on the L train in Chicago. All of them were killed. What investigators are doing today as they search for a motive and a perpetrator.

Plus, it's shaping up to be one of the most interesting U.S. Senate races of the year. Can the state's very popular former Republican governor pull off an upset in reliably blue Maryland? Well, the Democrat trying to stop him joins us live just a few weeks after Democrats gave her a prime speaking slot at the Democratic Convention.

And leading this hour, we're just one week, that's right, seven days away from the very first debate between Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump. Today, we're getting new insights into how both campaigns are preparing, while the Trump campaign says they're ramping up his campaign appearances in the coming days. Harris is gearing up to further lean into her economic proposals as she tries to moderate some of her past positions. Let's get straight to CNN's Kristen Holmes and Kayla Tausche.

And Kayla, you've got some brand new reporting about how Vice President Harris is preparing and the new policies we're going to see before she takes the stage.

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Jake, Vice President Harris is going to be delivering an economic speech in New Hampshire tomorrow, where we have just learned some of the proposals that she is set to unveil specifically to try to lower taxes, cut regulation and provide new financing for small businesses. In particular, she's going to be calling to increase a tax deduction for small businesses to $50,000, that's a tenfold increase from the current level of $5,000 that businesses currently get to deduct in their first year of operations, and she's also going to be calling for some specific limits on regulations that apply to operational licenses and tax filing for small business as well. We've learned from some of her advisors that she's also expected to go after former President Trump's 2017 tax cuts, arguing, in effect, that the revenue gained from allowing some of those taxes on the corporations and wealthy to lapse should be diverted or used to fund programs that matter to more everyday Americans.

But what's so interesting, Jake, about the proposals that she is set to unveil tomorrow is that they favor pro-business, low regulation, some of those traditional hallmarks of Republican platforms and fiscal discipline are reporting to nod to as well. And now this comes, of course, after unveiling her first tranche of economic proposals about a month ago that Republicans broadly slammed for being populist and instituting what they called as price controls. So clearly, she's trying to hit back at Republicans and take a page out of their own playbook before taking the stage directly opposing President Trump.

TAPPER: And Kristen, there's no doubt that this is going to be a vastly different debate than what we saw between Biden and Trump on June 27. How has the Trump campaign changed its strategy?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, if you talk to some of his senior advisers, they say, not very much. In fact, I spoke to someone today who said, oh, Donald Trump's whole life has been preparation for this debate, which obviously sounds like something a Trump advisor would say. But we are told he's going to continue to have the same kind of, quote unquote, "policy sessions" that he had ahead of the last debate. Reminder that Donald Trump nor his team like to use the word preparation, instead block off these sections of time that they call either policy time or policy review time, where he sits down mostly with some of his senior advisers, Jason Miller, even Stephen Miller, who is not technically part of the campaign, but has been advising him on various policies, particularly about immigration, for example, Vince Haley, one of his speechwriters and policy advisors. He's going to talk through different policy aspects with them.

We are told that that is built into this week. He doesn't have that much of a ramped up schedule yet. Today, he had nothing on the schedule. Tomorrow, he only has a Fox town hall. So, that is supposed to happen in these various blocks of time in between the next couple of days ahead of that debate.

But one thing we know is certain they were nervous ahead of that debate with President Joe Biden. Obviously, they want to mimic those results, but even they will acknowledge this is a different race and a different candidate that he's going up against on Tuesday.

TAPPER: All right, Kristen Holmes, thanks so much. Kayla Tausche, you too.

Let's bring back our panel. So Nayyera, an op-ed in "The Washington Post," Democratic strategist James Carville offered this debate for the -- advice for the debate, he said, quote, "Ms. Harris must enable exactly what his campaign is scared to death of, letting Trump be Trump. She should let him talk over her, not just let him but goad him into spouting insane conspiracy theories about the previous election. She should use her sense of humor at key moments to get under his skin and show he's not getting to her. And she should welcome the personal attacks as a badge of honor. What do you think?

NAYYERA HAQ, SENIOR DIRECTOR OF CABINET AFFAIRS, OBAMA ADMINISTRATION: She's been very effective in not taking Trump's bait, right? The -- even the repeated attempts to talk about her race, she said, asked and answered, let's move on. And it's allowed her to position herself and talk about herself and her policies the way she wants to.

[17:05:07]

One of the things that's going to be a challenge this debate is that dynamic of a man and a woman. And when Hillary Clinton was running against him and Trump was looming over her, there was some criticism over the fact that the reaction wasn't to combat him or to confront him, and that image wasn't ideal. So I'll be interested to see how she uses that that energy to push back against Trump without being aggressive and antagonistic.

TAPPER: So, let's be frank, Donald Trump has already done some pretty sleazy things when it comes to Kamala Harris. He's gone after her race, he reposted a truth on his social media website alleging, and it's false and it's gross, but alleging that Vice President Harris' career has something to do with sexual favors.

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I saw it. Yes.

TAPPER: I mean, really disgusting, sleazy stuff. What's your advice to him?

SINGLETON: Don't do that in the debate. That's advice number one.

TAPPER: Right. But obviously, he's struggling with how to go after a woman of color.

SINGLETON: I mean, he is struggling. But I don't think that should matter, I mean, because she's a woman or a woman of color. I mean, obviously, I think it's an incredible thing for the country in terms of progress. That's a beautiful thing. I would even -- Trump wouldn't do this, but I would even say, start off and acknowledge it.

Hey, Vice President Harris, this is a monumental occasion for you. Congratulations. And then start hitting her hard on the points where he is strong.

TAPPER: On policy.

SINGLETON: Absolutely. They're going to be in Pennsylvania. Talk a lot about fracking. Talk about the fact that if you were to roll back some proponents or aspects of fracking, we're going to see 7.7 million jobs less in the country, the 1.1 trillion less in GDP, of the 950 billion less in work income. Talk about how it would impact Americans writ large, in terms of their energy costs.

I mean, there is a very strong message to make in the Commonwealth and to Americans writ large, without the personal and gender attacks.

TAPPER: And Shira, Vice President Harris is going to have to set herself apart from President Biden who has struggled with his popularity, specifically on issues like immigration, like the economy. Last week, she tried to, in her interview with Dana, defend the work the administration has accomplished, while acknowledging that there's more work to be done. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: But I'm very proud of the work that we have done that has brought inflation down to less than 3 percent. The work that we have done to cap the cost of insulin at $35 a month for seniors. And America recovered faster than any wealthy nation around the world. But you are right, prices, in particular for groceries are still too high. The American people know it, I know it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: It is interesting how she tries to kind of be an incumbent for the good stuff --

SHIRA STEIN, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE: Yes.

TAPPER: -- and the, you know, the challenger and underdog for the bad stuff.

STEIN: It's really interesting. One of the things that when all of the big switcheroo happened in July that I was questioned was, how far can she go to separate herself from the president? She still is his acting vice president, and the job of the vice president is to support the president. And so to some extent, she can't really oppose him publicly on an issue like Gaza. She can make comments that sort of message things a little bit differently, but I don't know that she can really change what the message is or change what the policy is.

That's going to be a real challenge for her on the debate stage. But I think speaking to an earlier point that you made, she's not going to be like Hillary. She's a prosecutor. She does not really come back like hide from a fight. I think we're going to see a little bit of that.

But I think they're kind of hopefully choose specific moments where they use her prosecutorial instincts rather than having try and have her fight him on every single point that he's making.

HAQ: The idea that he's going to start and answer Trump, is going to start an answer and end up in some third universe in the same answer is something that is a wide open loophole to, you know, ask for clarification, ask for some coherence, like, what do you actually mean, Donald? Is it this or is it that? That goes to the personality challenges? As soon as Joe Biden left the race, Donald Trump was the old, established guy, and that's his challenge that he has to overcome in this debate.

SINGLETON: You see, Jake, on that issue, where the vice president said, well, I understand what Americans are going through, yet she went inflation, coming down, et cetera, that gives Donald Trump a debate opportunity to say, but you're the vice president now. You have been for three and a half years.

TAPPER: Right.

SINGLETON: If you're acknowledging that the American people are suffering, well, what are you going to do if given four years that you currently aren't doing that's magically going to work? Now, can you do that effectively? I'm not sure, but I would certainly be prepping him to.

HAQ: Well, here's the answer -- she's given that answer already. And most people, whether economists or even regular folks would say that, well, there's some things that you take care of firsthand economy, and then these other things happen after. There's the baseline issues of recovering from COVID, broader job numbers. And now it's figuring out how to tackle the collusion that's going on with price controls.

SINGLETON: That's like Washington talk. That's not the way regular Americans are talking though. They go to the grocery stores and realize everything is expensive and they want someone to solve it. Now, Trump needs to make that case.

[17:10:06]

TAPPER: So, Kamala Harris, Vice President Harris has tried to project since she became the nominee, this image of joy, a joyful warrior. She's happy, she smiles, she's laughs. It has worked so far. One of the things that the Trump administration -- the Trump campaign, wants to do is deflate that, to paint her as not a joyful person, but to paint her as a nasty person. This is, and I want to get your view on this, Shermichael, this is what former president said, Trump said, about Vice President Harris during the vice presidential debate with Mike Pence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Now they have Kamala, who they say, has many deficiencies, but she's a nasty person. The way she treated Mike Pence was horrible. The way she treats people is horrible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So that was from an interview over the weekend. Yes. I mean, I have to say, in terms of people who have not treated Mike Pence, honestly, I don't know that Donald Trump has a huge standing there, but what's your --

SINGLETON: Those are talking about from the debate when he says --

TAPPER: He was -- I think he was -- that was him over the weekend talking about Kamala Harris, how she was with Mike Pence at the debate four years before.

SINGLETON: I mean, it's a freaking debate. You want your person to be tough against the other guy. I mean, she was tough, OK, there's nothing wrong with that, Jake. That's the expectation. TAPPER: Yes.

SINGLETON: She's going to be tough as hell probably next Tuesday, and a former president should be prepared for her to be tough. It is a part of the process. Get over that. Debate the issues. You have a darn good position that you're in. All of the polling data showcases that the American people, despite their dislikes of some of Trump's character traits, they still think he's better on the economy.

They still think he's bet on immigration. So why in the hell are you spending time talking about her being a nasty person versus, yes, I am the guy to drive home the message and make things better for you economically. That's the message.

HAQ: Well, and I will say, to Shermichael's point, that idea of nasty person, nasty woman, is not something that he's been unique with Kamala Harris --

TAPPER: Right.

HAQ: -- goes back to Hillary, goes back to Megyn Kelly. I mean, he has a playbook of how he attacks people. It's about their identity, and that is what's getting him in trouble right now.

TAPPER: All right, thanks one and all. I think we're going to see you a little bit more. We're not getting enough panel. We want more panel.

Breaking news, just in to CNN, Donald Trump is entering a plea when it comes to the new charges brought against Special Counsel Jack Smith and that federal election subversion case. Those details next.

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[17:16:36]

TAPPER: We have some breaking news for you now. Former President Donald Trump pleading not guilty to charges revised just last week by the Special Counsel in the 2020 election subversion case. That's a federal case here in Washington, D.C. CNN's Katelyn Polantz is here.

Katelyn, you just got a copy of the new filing.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes, it's a one page filing, but there it has Donald Trump's big, black, bold signature on it, signing it saying, I'm pleading not guilty. And also when there's a hearing this coming week, the first hearing that we've had since this case has been paused, since it went to the Supreme Court, they gave him some presidential immunity. He doesn't want to be there in person, and so this paperwork serves as that.

It's an important moment, though, Jake, because this is an indictment and it went through a grand jury. Again, it's the same four charges, but he does have to enter a pleading and he's saying, I plead not guilty. The other reason that that is important is that when you get a not guilty plea, things head toward a trial. And it's a reminder that that's where we are in this case, it's back in the trial court. And Judge Tanya Chutkan in the trial court is going to be moving things along toward a trial, especially now that she has this waiver of appearance and entry of a not guilty plea in this one page filing from Donald Trump.

TAPPER: All right, Katelyn Polantz with the breaking news, thanks so much.

Let's bring in CNN Legal Analyst Elie Honig and Defense Attorney Bill Brennan, who once represented Trump's Payroll Corporation.

Elie, remind us what changed between the original indictment and this one, and why would Trump be pleading not guilty right now, as opposed to in person?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: So Jake, this is essentially a revised slim down for Jack Smith's original January 6 indictment in order to accommodate and adjust for the Supreme Court's immunity ruling. What Jack Smith did was take his original indictment, which was 45 pages, file a new indictment last week, which is now 36 pages, where he took out the pieces of information that, of course, specifically said are covered by immunity, including, for example, Donald Trump's dealings with the Justice Department. Those are out of this new indictment. There are some other minor adjustments, but essentially, this is Jack Smith's effort to slim down his own case to enable it to go forward.

As for why today, this is a piece of paper that a defendant like Donald Trump files so that he doesn't have to physically appear in court on Thursday. He essentially says, I've (inaudible) and I've authorized my attorneys to enter a not guilty plea for me when they're in court on Thursday.

TAPPER: And Bill, are you surprised that Mr. Trump does not plan to be there in person as he has for other illegal skirmishes?

WILLIAM J. BRENNAN, FORMER TRUMP PAYROLL CORP. ATTORNEY: No, Jake, I'm not, because you know the timing now, it's post Labor Day, you know, it's game on for the campaign for the presidency, and it really is not uncommon to waive a defendant's appearance in an arraignment. But as Elie and Katelyn said, it's an important step in the proceeding because, well, when the arraignment happens and that plea is entered, it starts clocks ticking. You know, there's a typical 70-day till trial rule, but that often gets changed when it's a complex case or, you know, there's a need for continuance on either of both sides. So it's -- I don't think it's surprising. It's certainly not surprising that he pled not guilty.

You know, he's pled not guilty in this case in all the cases from the beginning. But as Elie said, this superseding indictment is a bit of a leaner, meaner document. It is an attempt by Jack Smith to excise all of the verbiage and counts that related to the defendant's activities as president. Because, as we know, the United States Supreme Court gave a wide ranging immunity opinion this year. So we'll see if it holds up.

[17:20:29] TAPPER: And Elie, in a separate case, a federal judge denied former President Trump's request to move the New York hush money case into federal court, finding that there's nothing in the Supreme Court's immunity ruling that alters his view of the facts that were -- that the payments were, quote, "private, unofficial acts." Can you explain this?

HONIG: Yes, Jake, so this is one of two ways that Donald Trump is trying to postpone his sentencing in the Manhattan hush money case, which has long been scheduled for September 18, so two weeks from now. One of the things Trump was trying to do was get the federal courts to take his case, because he's saying, well, we have this new Supreme Court immunity case, I want to make an immunity defense through the hush money case, because some a little bit of the evidence in that case had to do with when Donald Trump is president. But now a federal court at the moment, is saying, no, you can't bring that case over here. But Trump's also trying another way to sidetrack his sentencing. He's asking Judge Merchan in the Manhattan case, he's saying, I want you to throw out the verdict because of the immunity, I get to appeal before you sentence me.

And the DA has said we're fine either way. So Jake, there's a pretty good chance, an -- chance that Trump manages to wriggle out of that September 18 sentencing date on the hush money case.

TAPPER: All right, Elie Honig and Bill Brennan joining us for the breaking news, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

Republicans say their path to retaking the Senate could go through blue state, Maryland, where a popular former Republican governor is on the ballot, the Democrat running to make sure that does not happen, joins me live next.

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[17:26:19]

TAPPER: And we're back with our 2024 lead. And with just nine weeks to go until Election Day, believe it or not, nine weeks from today, Democrats are faintly facing an uphill battle when it comes to holding on to their slim Senate majority. Yes, Vice President Kamala Harris has improved on President Biden standing in many states, but the basic shape of the Senate map has remained the same. One Senate seat that Republicans are eyeing as a potential flip is one in the deep blue state of Maryland, and that's because Larry Hogan, the two time Republican Maryland governor, who left office with high approval ratings in Maryland, is trying to win the seat being vacated by retiring Democratic Senator Ben Cardin. His challenger is my next guest, Angela Alsobrooks, the county executive of Prince, George's County, Maryland, who also served the state's attorney there. Democrats gave her a prime speaking slot at last month's convention. Thank you so much for being here.

County Executive, what do I call you Executive Alsobrooks? What's the screen (ph) name?

ANGELA ALSOBROOKS, EXECUTIVE OF PRINCE GEORGE'S COUNTY: Oh, it's county executive.

TAPPER: County executive.

ALSOBROOKS: Yes.

TAPPER: But do I say County Executive Alsobrooks? How do people -- is there an honorific that people use for you?

ALSOBROOKS: Well, that's what they say, County Executive Also.

TAPPER: That's a mouthful.

ALSOBROOKS: Yes, it is.

TAPPER: OK. So let me just ask you, Ms. Alsobrooks, if I may also say that --

ALSOBROOKS: Sure.

TAPPER: -- Larry Hogan is perceived as a moderate and he's someone who has demonstrated in the past strong appeal to independents. He is not a MAGA Republican. I mean, he does not support Donald Trump. How do you make the case against him?

ALSOBROOKS: Well, you know what, he was recruited to run in this race by Mitch McConnell. And Mitch McConnell, Larry Hogan, and as a matter of fact, Donald Trump share something in common, and that is that they want Senate Republicans to be in charge of the Senate. And what we know about that is that the stakes of the race couldn't be any higher. Our reproductive freedoms are now at stake. We recognize that this Republican caucus led by Mitch McConnell is also going to be in charge of the Supreme Court, and what they've done with this Supreme Court is to give immunity. They are favoring -- they're going to favor big corporations over average middle class Americans. And we recognize that so many of our rights and freedoms are now at stake, voting rights, our climate, there are so many issues now that putting the Republicans, led by Mitch McConnell, Ted Cruz, Lindsey Graham would be over the Judiciary Committee would really set this country backwards, and they would control the agenda of the country, and Larry Hogan's election would hand over control to these Republicans.

TAPPER: So it's more about the fact that he's a Republican than about Larry Hogan, per se?

ALSOBROOKS: Yes, this is so much bigger than Larry Hogan. It really is. Although Larry Hogan's policies and his actions as a governor were very much in line with this Republican Party. He just two years ago, vetoed abortion care legislation in the state of Maryland. And when he was overridden by our largely Democratic legislature, he withheld the funding until Governor Moore came into office.

And so we know when we think about gun violence, this is the same governor who refused to sign legislation that would have banned ghost guns. He vetoed legislation that would have given sensible waiting period for long guns. And so we know that many of the policies of this Republican Party are ones that Larry Hogan as governor favor those policies.

TAPPER: There was a new attack ad recently released attacking you. It was not put out by Larry Hogan, though, take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If she backs down from local criminals, will she stand up to international threats like these guys? Angela Alsobrooks, too soft, too inexperienced for dangerous times.

John Bolton PAC is responsible for the content of this advertising.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So that's from the John Bolton PAC. John Bolton obviously former National Security Advisor for Donald Trump, famously broke with Trump. What is your response to critics attacking you as soft on crime?

ALSOBROOKS: Well, first of all, when I served as State's Attorney, the elected State's Attorney in Prince George's County, I oversaw 50 percent cut in violence crime. I -- I just 27 years ago, began as a full time domestic violence prosecutor. I've been the person who has led on this issue, and in fact, I'm the only person in the race who can say, I've ever done anything to lower crime in Maryland, we know. But what we know is this is a predictable attack is what you see of Republicans all across the country to spread fear and to stoke divisions.

[17:30:24]

And -- and so in Larry Hogan, along with his allies, John Bolton and the rest of this Republican Party that he's going to align with are again, they are together in one goal, gaining charge -- control -- they want to be in con -- control of the Senate, and -- and that's what his goal is.

TAPPER: Let me ask you a question, has Kamala Harris, Vice President Harris's entrance into this race, has her becoming the Democratic nominee, as opposed to President Biden, has that made it easier for you? Was Biden some and, you know, I'm sure you think highly of him, and think he's a wonderful guy and all that stuff, but has -- was he a drag on the ticket? Because we have heard that from other Democrats running all over the country, that Harris, at least makes it, you know, a -- a fairer fight?

ALSOBROOKS: We absolutely do love Joe Biden. I have to make that comment, is that I think he's a person who we all respect so much, and he's going to be a -- he's a hero. But people are also and I should say, people are very excited about Vice President Harris in Maryland, for example, we've seen 50,000 new volunteers sign up to volunteer just since July 21st. It's elect -- electric and explosive. And people like my 19-year-old daughter are excited to vote for Vice President Harris.

We're seeing now intergenerationally, this new excitement around voting and activism and engagement that I think is going to really result in high turnout on Election Day and during election season. And so it's very, very exciting.

TAPPER: All right, County Executive Angela Alsobrooks, thank you so much for being here. It's really nice to meet you first face to face.

ALSOBROOKS: Thank you.

TAPPER: And we should note that we're going to have her Republican opponent in this race, former Maryland Governor Larry Hogan here on The Lead tomorrow. All part of our continuing election coverage.

Up next, more on my exclusive interview with John McCain's son, Jim, who has decided to join the Democratic Party. I'm going to ask a veteran journalist who knew the late Senator about what he would make of the state of the GOP.

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[17:36:34]

TAPPER: Back with our 2024 Lead in a high profile abandonment of the Republican Party by late Senator John McCain's son, Jim. Jim is an army intelligence officer, and he told CNN in an exclusive interview that he sees Trump's use of Arlington Cemetery as a campaign backdrop, at least in terms of what ended up on social media as a quote, violation. And we should note that the Trump campaign says it was granted permission to have a photographer. They deny that an altercation with cemetery officials took place. Here's what Jim McCain told us, just in the last hour.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM MCCAIN, SON OF SEN. JOHN MCCAIN: These young people are taking time out of their lives when they could be bettering themselves, you know, college things like that. And they're joining the military because they feel it's the right thing. And the least we can do is -- when they're gone, if they, you know, when they're in Arlington, is to respect the rules and regulations that are in place, like not politicizing the fact that these men and women are there. Go show respect. Under -- I understand that he was invited, show respect and leave. It doesn't need to be videoed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Joining us now, Jeffrey Goldberg, he is the editor-in-chief of The Atlantic. He just published a collection of -- of essays articles from The Atlantic entitled "On Heroism: McCain, Milley, Mattis, and the Cowardice of Donald Trump." And -- and Jeffrey you knew Senator McCain well as did I. What do -- what do you think he would make of Jim McCain, his youngest of becoming a Democrat and -- and -- and decrying Donald Trump?

JEFFREY GOLDBERG, EDITOR IN CHIEF, THE ATLANTIC: I mean, I -- I think, obviously this is where John McCain was headed. I think -- I think Senator McCain would have the same qualms that anybody would have about the further politicization of the military. And we know that a lot of officers, mainly senior officers, are under press -- pressure from Democrats to say what they know to be true.

But I think he would obviously look at his son and say, well, he's just telling the truth, which is that Arlington, of all places, shouldn't be politicized. It's not a Democratic cemetery, it's not a Republican cemetery, it's an American Cemetery, and campaigning should just not happen there.

TAPPER: You -- you write about a previous visit by Trump to Section 60 in Arlington.

GOLDBERG: Yes.

TAPPER: That's where the Iraq and -- and Afghanistan's service members are -- are mostly buried. This was in Memorial Day 2017 and Trump was with John Kelly. He was not, at the time, Chief of Staff of the White House. He was still Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, but he -- he would go on to -- to become Chief -- Chief of Staff and longest serving Chief of Staff for Trump. Kelly's son, Robert, is -- is buried there at Arlington. And sources told you that -- that Trump asked Kelly, while standing by Robert Kelly's grave, I don't get it, what's in it for them?

Trump also said recently that the -- the Presidential Medal of Freedom, which honors civilians, and in this case, he was talking about an honor for Miriam Adelson, a big Republican donor, is actually much better, that's a quote, than the Medal of Honor, which is awarded to service members, often posthumously, for risking their lives. What -- what do you make of this? Do you think it's all of a piece?

GOLDBERG: I think there's a pattern. There's a pattern of non -- at least non-understanding, I don't think, based on many, many years of observation now that Donald Trump understands people who serve. He does not seem to understand why someone would be motivated to risk life and limb for their country. He obviously, very famously got out of Vietnam. He equally famously has referred to people who get killed on behalf of the country as suckers and losers.

[17:40:09]

So the question that he was asking General Kelly is of a peace with all that. He simply doesn't understand why someone, a healthy young man who could go out and make money would -- would volunteer? Because we have a volunteer military, volunteer to -- to risk his life and give up his life. And the fact that he said this to the father of this army officer, of this marine officer in Arlington, shows a level of at least obtuseness that's very hard to understand.

TAPPER: I know right now there are probably people wondering, because you made a reference to senior flag officers retired military --

GOLDBERG: Yes.

TAPPER: -- like Milley and Mattis --

GOLDBERG: Right.

TAPPER: -- not to mention John Kelly, being pressured by Democrats to say something.

GOLDBERG: Right.

TAPPER: Why -- why don't they?

GOLDBERG: Because it's almost wholly writ. In -- in -- in American military tradition, we have civilian control of the military. The military is apolitical. The generals listen to Democratic presidents and Republican Presidents, and mixing with politics, the temptations are always there. And obviously many people who've served have run for office. That's -- that's fine. But there are people who want to follow these rules, and so they are very hesitant.

They also let it be known, obviously, through journalists and through other means, what happened inside the White House in Donald Trump's first term, and how he treated the military and what he thinks the military is there for. He's talked about my generals, which of course, upsets them great -- greatly.

TAPPER: Yes.

GOLDBERG: They don't report -- generals in America don't report to the President. They work for the Constitution. He doesn't understand that. That upsets them. But they're very, very -- try to be very rigorous about not politicizing their role in society.

TAPPER: I think that's definitely part of it. I also think part of it, not for all of them, but for some of them, I'm not just talking about those three. I'm talking about others --

GOLDBERG: Yes.

TAPPER: -- is the death threats.

GOLDBERG: Sure.

TAPPER: Once -- once they are perceived as being disloyal to Trump, and once Trump starts attacking them, death threats start happening. And -- and they're -- and those are -- and they're quite often serious deaths.

GOLDBERG: I -- I would agree with you. I also think that, you know, when you're talking about Milley, Mattis, Kelly, these are -- these are tough guys.

TAPPER: They're tough guys.

GOLDBERG: These are combat veterans. I -- I think that, yes, that's --

TAPPER: They all have wives.

GOLDBERG: That's a factor in their lives. But I think what's -- what's holding them back is this fear of becoming too political. But you're right, they live in -- in a climate of intimidation as well.

TAPPER: Yes. I -- I don't mean even the death threats for themselves. I mean the death the treats for --

GOLDBERG: Yes, yes, no, no, no.

TAPPER: -- they have children.

GOLDBERG: They have children. They have children like all of us. And -- and they don't want to be threatened.

TAPPER: Yes. Jeffrey Goldberg, thanks so much for being here. Congratulations. The new book "On Heroism" McCain, Milley, Mattis and the Cowardice of Donald Trump" is out today. Congratulations. I read them -- I read them when you -- you first wrote them.

GOLDBERG: Right.

TAPPER: And I'll -- I'll read them again. This nice little -- nice little book, good.

[17:43:04]

Former New York Governor Andrew Cuomo was one of the most visible officials at the height of the coronavirus pandemic. He is now set to testify publicly about the Empire state's response and one of the most controversial decisions he made during the COVID era. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our Law and Justice Lead, Chicago officials just handed down charges in yesterday's gruesome quadruple murder on board Chicago's L train. Authorities say it appears all the victims were sleeping when they were killed. They may have been homeless. CNN's security correspondent Josh Campbell is following the story. So Josh, what -- what can you tell us about these charges?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Hey, yes, Jake, these charges just announced by authorities there in Chicago area. We're talking about four counts of first degree murder, and this is involves the suspect, 32, or excuse me, 30-year-old, Rhanni Davis. You can see there the mug shot that authorities had just released. What they say is that on Labor Day morning, yesterday morning in the Chicago area, he boarded a train and essentially executed four people, three person -- people in one car, one person who were -- was in another car and then fled.

Authorities say that it was thanks to surveillance footage inside the transit system that allowed them to actually track his whereabouts. They intercepted him, took him into custody. They haven't indicated right now any information about the motive, but we're told that remains under investigation, Jake.

TAPPER: What else have you learned about where this investigation is going behind the scenes? Well, authorities say that they are poring over evidence. And they're keeping a lot close to the vest right now, but we know in looking at some of these past cases, this is a situation where the suspect has been taken into custody alive, so presumably he himself, if he is willing to cooperate, would be able to provide information to police about what the possible motivation was here.

We know that absent that there's a host of other items they're looking at, to include the firearm itself. Folks might not know this, but ATF, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, has an entire team that can look at a firearm, and because of the specific characteristics of a weapon, they can look to see, was this used in past incidences as well, and then look at the victimology? Is this someone who was targeting people of a particular, you know, particular characteristic. Here, authorities say that they believe that the -- that the victims here were homeless.

And so that is one area that they would certainly be looking into. And then, of course, so many people this day and age have a digital footprint, the so called digital exhaust, if he has any type of social media or electronic devices that authorities are indeed able to recover, they can be going through that again to try to determine what the possible motive was.

And then finally, that surveillance footage on the transit system beneficial. There's no indication there was anyone else who was involved. That's something that -- that would certainly be trying to rule out, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Josh Campbell, thanks so much.

[17:49:59]

Turning to our Health Lead, the public finally might get some answers about some of the decisions made in New York State during the start of the COVID outbreak. Former Democratic Governor Andrew Cuomo, will testify before Congress next Tuesday, one week from today, in a public hearing. The main focus will be on his controversial nursing home advisory.

You might remember back in March 2020, Governor Cuomo barred nursing homes from rejecting patients solely because they had COVID. Cuomo has insisted the decision was consistent with guidance from federal health officials, but the chair of the House subcommittee behind the hearing, Republican Congressman Brad Wenstrup of Ohio, previously told me that he did not understand the move.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. BRAD WENSTRUP (R-OH): The -- the doctor who has treated infections, it goes against all medical common sense to take someone who is highly contagious and put them in amongst the most vulnerable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Governor Cuomo testified before the same committee behind closed doors in June. Today, this committee accused Governor Cuomo of being, quote, shockingly callous when discussing New York's nursing home mortality rate during that interview, Cuomo's team responded to the upcoming hearing by saying, quote, the one question that needs to be answered is still being ignored. Why did more people die from COVID in the United States than any other country, and how do we make sure it never happens again? It is Governor Cuomo's pleasure to join the committee once again to try to get an answer, unquote.

A 2021 investigation led by New York's Attorney General, who's also a Democrat, found the Governor Cuomo Health Department under counted COVID deaths at nursing homes by approximately 50, 5-0 percent.

Coming up next, our last leads.

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[17:56:04]

TAPPER: In our Health Lead, summer may be unofficially over, but mosquito season assuredly is not. And this year, the buzzing pests seem to be carrying an array of scary diseases, things with exotic names such as EEE or West Nile Virus, which even the famous Dr. Fauci got, and it sent him to the hospital, although, thankfully, he's home.

So for those of you itching to know more, CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta is on call and joins us now, and you'll notice a QR code on your screen. Scan it to submit your questions for Sanjay. He'll be back tomorrow to answer some of them. Sanjay, how widespread are these mosquito borne diseases right now?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: By the way, itching to know more. I caught that. That -- was -- that was good Jake Tapper.

TAPPER: Appreciate it.

GUPTA: Yes. So, you know, it's interesting. First of all, preface by saying August, September. That's the big mosquito season, so we're -- we're sort of right in the middle of it right now, that's the bad news. Good news, probably by the end of this month, the numbers will go down. Let me give you a snapshot of what's happening in the country with regard to West Nile.

Overall, darker colors on this map, those more cases there. Then you can see some of the states that are hit the hardest, Texas, the Northeast and the West, to some extent, Eastern Equine Encephalitis, the EEE Virus that is a lot more rare. There are six cases in five states, thankfully. So again, the numbers should go down by the end of the month, just because mosquito biting should go down.

I will say that when it comes to things like malaria and dengue, Jake, those are usually travel acquired, go to another country, bring it back. But in Puerto Rico, as some may know, there's a public health emergency right now with regard to dengue, some 1,500 cases, far more than they typically get. So that's another place in the world that we're keeping an eye on.

TAPPER: What do we know about the risk of transmission? GUPTA: Yes, this is the big question, right? I just got bit by a mosquito. Did I get West Nile Virus? This is the question that comes up all the time. I'll preface by saying it is really rare. But also that even a single bite could transmit the virus. It's not necessarily like I got a lot of bites, therefore, I'm more likely just one bite can. But what is interesting is that when we actually looked at the data around this, about one in 500 mosquitoes are actually carrying the virus in places where the -- the virus is currently spreading. So the chances are rare. They're unlikely that you'll actually get it. But one mosquito bite can do it if it happens to be one carrying -- carrying the virus.

TAPPER: Go out there and buy mosquito repellent -- repellent, folks, it's important stuff. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much.

GUPTA: You got it.

TAPPER: Turning now to our last leads, a former aide to New York Governor Kathy Hochul has been arrested and charged with acting as an agent for the Chinese government. Linda Sun, who also worked for former Governor Andrew Cuomo allegedly used her position to benefit the Chinese Communist Party, including blocking Taiwanese officials from being able to access the governor's office.

In exchange, Sun allegedly received millions of dollars, travel benefits, event tickets, and even a shipment of Nanjing-style salted ducks prepared by a Chinese consulate official's personal chef. Sun's husband was also charged. Both of them have pleaded not guilty.

Donald Trump's going to have to find a new hype song. A federal judge in Atlanta ordered the Trump campaign to stop using Isaac Hayes "Hold On, I'm Coming" during campaign events. The estate for Hayes filed a lawsuit last month alleging that the Trump campaign had infringed on its copyright. This is the first complaint from the musical artist or family to end up in court. Other artists, including Beyonce, Springsteen, Celine Dion, have publicly rejected Trump using their music.

And in my hometown of Philly, fake political ads claim that the Eagles have endorsed Kamala Harris for President. The ads seen on bus stops around town show Kamala Harris wearing an Eagles helmet, and say, quote, Kamala official candidate of the Philadelphia Eagles, unquote. That is not true. The 2018 Super Bowl champions released a statement saying they are working on having the ads removed. They have not endorsed any candidate, nor will they.

[18:00:03]

You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, X, formerly known as Twitter, and on the TikTok at JakeTapper. You can follow the show on X at TheLeadCNN. If you ever miss an episode of the lead, you can listen to the show once you get your podcasts, all two hours just sitting right there like a delicious plum.

The news continues on CNN with Wolf Blitzer. He's right next door in a place I like to call The Situation Room. I'll see you tomorrow.