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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Two Students & Two Teachers Dead In G.A. School Shooting; Rep. Jared Moskowitz (D-FL), Is Interviewed About 4 Dead, 9 Hospitalized After GA School Shooting; Netanyahu Commits To Gaza Operation Despite Ceasefire Pleas; Harris Campaign Agrees To Debate Rules, Including Muted Mics. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired September 04, 2024 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[17:01:45]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

And we are following horrific breaking news out of Winder, Georgia. That's a town about 50 miles northeast of Atlanta, Georgia. Moments ago, we just got an update from law enforcement and other officials about the mass shooting at Appalachia High School earlier today. They say four people were killed by the shooter. Two of the victims were teachers.

Two of the victims were students. Nine others have been hospitalized. State officials say the suspect in custody is 14 years old, a boy who attends the school. He has been speaking to investigators, we are told, and law enforcement officials say they believe the suspect will be charged with murder and tried as an adult. The local sheriff getting emotional as he spoke to reporters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF JUD SMITH, BARROW COUNTY, GEORGIA: My heart hurts for these kids. My heart hurts for our community. But I want to make it very clear that hate will not prevail in this county. I want that to be very clear and known. Love will prevail over what happened today, I assure you of that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: The sheriff later explained he was not referring to a hate crime of any sort. He was just saying the act of walking into a school with a gun and shooting and killing people is an act of hatred. Students tell CNN that they were unsure what was going on when that shooting began, but they quickly realized something had gone horribly, horribly wrong.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIE SANDOVAL, APALACHEE HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT: My first initial reaction was my sister, because she's a freshman. And I was like, OK, she's in this school as well. I needed to make sure that she's OK. And then that's when I texted my mom and my dad. I was like, I love you guys, if anything happens, like, you know.

My automatic thought was, like, apologizing for some reason because I haven't, like, I'm obviously not a perfect daughter, but I was like, I'm sorry, guys. Like, I love you guys so much. And that was kind of like my initial reaction. I started shaking a lot, and that's when I started crying as well. I was trying to text a lot of my friends, but unfortunately, the, like, everything was down.

So all I could really do was text the people that I have, like, numbers of.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Let's get straight to CNN's Isabel Rosales, who is on the ground for us in Winder, Georgia, where this took place.

Isabel, you're with a student there.

ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Jake. Yes, I am with a student. I'll introduce you to her in just a moment. But that sheriff, Jud Smith, incredibly emotional, gathering his breath, gathering his thoughts, his emotions. Saying that he was born and raised here.

He went to the school district, his own children go to this school district. And he told us he never imagined the day where he would have to stand in front of the media, local, state, national media, and talk about the pure evil, he said, that has happened here in his own community. And to know that it was a 14-year-old boy, a student, who created this act of violence.

Let me introduce you to Lyela, who's 16 years old. She was actually in algebra class just this morning elbow to elbow with that shooter, Colt Gray, as he's been named by the Georgia Bureau of Investigations.

[17:05:06]

Lyela, let me first start with, how are you? How are you coping?

LYELA SAYARATH, APALACHEE HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT: I'm OK. I'm pushing through it, talking to friends, making sure, you know, everyone else is OK, checking on people around me.

ROSALES: Can you bring me back what happened?

SAYARATH: I just remember, like, the moment that it happened, he was at the door, and they -- I knew they were looking for him already, but he was at the door, and they almost let him in until they backed up, and then he turned away. And that's when you hear, like, the first rounds of fire.

ROSALES: So he was in class with you in algebra class, he left, then he came back, was at the door and then knocking to be let back in. Why? You told me something about the doors. SAYARATH: Yes. They lock automatically, so you have to be let in to come back into our classroom. So I think he wanted to come to us first.

RSALES: Come to you first to shoot?

SAYARATH: Yes, to shoot us, class.

ROSALES: And then he was at the door. Student went to open the door. And then what happened?

SAYARATH: She backed away. I think she saw him, or maybe somebody said something, but I'm pretty sure she saw that he had a gun, and so she backed away.

ROSALES: So she was about to let him into the class, you think, to shoot the students, saw that he had a gun, did not let him in. What happened next?

SAYARATH: He turns to the classroom to what would have been my right, and he just starts to shoot, and you hear, like, about 10 to 15 rounds back to back.

ROSALES: What did you hear? What did you think was going on in those moments?

SAYARATH: When -- as soon as they didn't let him in, you kind of like, I don't know, I already kind of had a feeling it was going to happen, and it was him. But as soon as they didn't let him in and you hear the gunshots, you're kind of like, no.

ROSALES: You knew that something --

SAYARATH: Yes.

ROSALES: -- very bad was happening next door. Did he ever say anything?

SAYARATH: No, he never really talked. He was pretty quiet. He wasn't there most times. Either he just didn't come to school or he just would skip class. But even when he would have talked, it was one word answers or just short statements.

ROSALES: You told me off camera you weren't surprised that he would be the shooter. Why is that?

SAYARATH: Just because when you think of, like, shooters and how they act or things that they do, it's usually the quiet kid, or, like, that's what stereotyped for it to be. And he was the one that fit that description in our class.

ROSALES: Did you ever see the gun or the student that go to the door, see the gun describe it to you guys?

SAYARATH: No, I haven't talked with her after this. It was all pretty hectic, but I didn't see the gun. ROSALES: Did he ever have a hobby of guns hunting? Did he ever talk about any of that?

SAYARATH: No, he never really talked.

ROSALES: OK. Can you tell me what it was like inside of the classroom when you hear those gunshots go off? How -- I heard that you helped to keep the other students calm, right?

SAYARATH: Yes. Most of, like, when we heard it, most people just dropped to the floor and, like, kind of crawled in an area, like, piled on top of each other. Lost a shoe when they were, you know, trying to get to a corner. The teacher turned off the lights, but we all just kind of piled together. And, like, I pushed desks in front of us.

I was just telling people, like, oh, push desks in front of you, block in front of you, get low, things like that.

ROSALES: And are there any metal detectors in the school?

SAYARATH: No, not that I know of.

ROSALES: Did you guys drill for active shooters? We know that some school districts do that.

SAYARATH: They were silent drills, so we stayed in our seats. The teachers kept teaching through them. I think it was more for, like, the system of it instead of, like, preparing us.

ROSALES: How quickly from the moment that you heard the gunshots go off to the hard lockdown alert going on the screens, letting everyone else in the school know that something had gone wrong. How long did that take, do you recall?

SAYARATH: Maybe a couple minutes, but it wasn't instant.

ROSALES: At what point did you know that this was over?

SAYARATH: When the cops came in the room and asked us to put our hands up, asked us if we had anything. A little bit after that, they let us all out. But when it was kind of quiet, you hear, like, cops yelling, but it's kind of quiet, there's no more gunshots, things like that.

ROSALES: Yes. What was that communication like with your parents? I mean, all of us have phones nowadays. I spoke with many students texting what they thought might be their last words to their parents. What was that like for you?

SAYARATH: I called my mom. I called her, and I was like, oh, they're shooting up the school. She thought I was like -- she didn't believe me at first. And I was like, no, they actually are. And I talked to her for a second, and she was like, oh, I'm on my way right now.

And then I was like, OK, I got to go call other people. I text all my friends in the school, out of school, everywhere, and I'm just texting and calling kind of everybody.

ROSALES: And what was that like leaving the school? I saw videos of officers escorting the students with their hands raised. What was that like for you?

SAYARATH: It was protocol, obviously. But I was glad it was over. Like I was glad were able to leave. I was looking for my friends that were there. I was comforting the ones that had been through a little bit of a harder time.

[17:10:07]

ROSALES: And then, Lyela, what would you say to this student that you were just elbow to elbow with just this morning in algebra class and now this?

SAYARATH: I'm not sure. I want to know why he did it. I think that would be a -- I want to know why.

ROSALES: Lyela, thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it, and the best to you and your family and your community. Thank you for talking to us. Jake.

TAPPER: Isabel, you asked a question at the briefing just moments ago. What did you learn?

ROSALES: Yes, Jake, I asked Sheriff Jud Smith if they had had any sort of prior warning, any sort of calls or threats made to the school, because I did hear that from some of the students here on the ground that they had heard murmurings that had happened before the shooting occurred. But the sheriff said he wasn't aware of any such reports.

TAPPER: All right. Thank you, Isabel Rosales, remarkable interview just there with that young lady, a kid that shouldn't have had to go through what she just went through.

Another teen in Appalachia high school told CNN earlier today that she thought she was going to die as the shooting unfolded. And you'll hear that account next.

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[17:15:19]

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LAILA FOHRMAN, APALACHEE HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT: I was scared I was going to die, to be honest. And when I heard hard lockdown, I knew it wasn't a drill. I immediately texted my dad and I was just like, I don't know if this is a drill, I'm really scared. And I just kept my feet up and I prayed and I closed my eyes and I tried to stay calm and I was shaking. I was worried that they would hear me. But when I heard gunshots, I was just, I knew.

(END VIDEO CLIP) TAPPER: You just heard a student there, a child describing what she heard during today's mass shooting at Appalachian High School in Winder, Georgia, about an hour east of Atlanta. Officials say two students and two teachers were killed there, at least nine others taken to hospitals with various injuries and wounds. The suspect, the shooter, is a 14-year-old boy who is a student at the school. He has been taken into custody. I want to bring in CNN's John Miller.

And John, what do you make of what we just heard from authorities?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, we learned a couple of things. We learned that the 14-year-old student is a student from that school. We learned from Lyela, the witness who spoke to Isabella Rosales, our correspondent on the scene, that this individual was known to the other students, was known to be quiet, was known to answer questions with very short responses, signs of perhaps someone who was isolated. But we also know the response from police, two school resource officers, armed police officers assigned to that school, a school of 1900 children were alerted to the shooting, chased down the 14-year-old gunman, confronted him. And there we learned something else, which is in that instance, the gunman, this 14-year- old boy had a chance to shoot it out with police, suicide by cop, or comply with their orders and surrender, which is what he did.

So, we learned quite a bit. And because he is alive, he is in custody and he is in conversation with the sheriff's office and GBI, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, we may learn more.

TAPPER: Explain why that's significant, John, because now that you say it does seem unusual. Usually these kinds of horrific events end with the shooter either being killed by law enforcement or almost more often, it seems, taking their own lives, and that did not happen. What's the significance of that?

MILLER: Well, if you've seen one school shooting, you've seen one school shooting, but the threads that we've gathered from the various studies are that 53 percent of school shootings are over before police arrive. In this case, the response was rapid because police didn't have to arrive. Police were already there, so they confronted him, possibly before he was expecting to be confronted by law enforcement. In the other cases, as you state, we often see the person commit a form of suicide by cop, by not complaining or firing on police or taking their own life once they're aware that police are there and that the situation is closing in on them. The fact that this individual chose to comply with those instructions tells us only that he was intent on killing people, but not intent on dying today.

TAPPER: Interesting. John Miller, thanks so much.

Let's bring in former New York City mayor Bill de Blasio. What is your reaction to today's shooting in Georgia? New York is obviously a city that has a great deal of gun violence as well.

BILL DE BLASIO, (D) FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Yes. Jake, I'm thinking as a parent right now, I know you're a parent, too, I mean, hearing those kids talk about this like it was something they almost expected to have happen during their time in school, that was chilling. And I think what's happening for parents all over America is just a growing anger that this continues without a solution. How does a 14-year-old get a gun and no one picks up on the signs that there may be danger coming? How -- and so many of these other cases was there. Obviously a mental health problem, but there was no follow up. I think this is going to become a bigger and bigger issue for parents all across this country because it just seems out of control.

TAPPER: What kinds of solutions, ones that would get through Congress, do you think could help remedy this in terms of being on the lookout for individuals who are troubled? Safe storage laws for guns, although that does seem a heavy lift for this Congress. Where are the solutions?

[17:20:11]

DE BLASIO: Jake, first of all, I think this makes it once again a referendum for the American people, and they're about to vote in a few weeks. So you don't know, nor do I, what kind of Congress we're going to have. We might have a Congress a little more willing to take action. We did see some major gun safety legislation in the last few years. That was a big step.

But I think it comes down to things like clearly the red flag laws, strengthening those so that if there is a sign of trouble, the police are empowered to go and seize a weapon until there's a full evaluation, clearly holding parents responsible. And this may be more of a matter of state law, too, but you've started to see it in the court system. If parents did not properly store guns or ignored signs of a child potentially being ready to be violent, there has to be responsibility for that parent. Other children die, other parents lose a child. There has to be responsibility.

And the last thing I'd say, and this could be national and local, is some actual investment in mental health services for young people. We barely have enough guidance counselors in our high schools, but we certainly don't have mental health professionals in most schools anywhere near the way we need them. Some of these things could be caught early enough to be turned around if there were some actual professionals there to see what's going on and do something about it when a kid's in trouble.

TAPPER: Red flag laws are interesting. Obviously, when an authority spots somebody, especially a kid in high school, that is troubled, that maybe should not have access to a gun. In that mental health professional's view or teacher's view, police can get involved. But red flag laws only work as much as people know about them and use them. And I've covered so many of these.

So I apologize if I get any of these facts not exactly right, but it seemed to me, as I recall, the Buffalo shooter could have been highlighted under the red flag law, but was not. The Maine shooter, people in New York City knew about him having problems, I believe, and authorities in Maine, somehow that connection was never made. How do we solve that problem where there are red flag laws and people either don't know about them or they don't act on them? DE BLASIO: Jake, we see this problem a lot in law enforcement, and I learned this as mayor of New York City many times, that one jurisdiction had a sense that someone was a potential danger, but another jurisdiction did not. That is solvable. We can create mechanisms to share information and to flag people with potential dangerous characteristics across jurisdictions. But also more teeth in these laws. I mean, right now, what we see is the red flag laws give law enforcement the ability.

But you're exactly right. In the case of Buffalo, there was not follow up. There was not accountability. If law enforcement or any other local officials didn't follow through on those red flag laws, it was like, oh, you have the right to intervene, but you don't necessarily have to do it. I think red flag laws work when it's very clear that if they're not acted on, people are held responsible, especially if, God forbid, a tragedy like this happens.

TAPPER: Former New York City mayor, Bill De Blasio, thank you so much. Appreciate your time today, sir.

DE BLASIO: Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: In reaction to this shooting today, we have heard from President Biden and Vice President Harris and former President Trump, all three expressing their condolences to the victims and the families affected by today's shooting and, of course, voicing frustration that the tragedy happened in the first place. It is a moment that we're going to take right now just to think about the fact that there are four families, two families of students and two families of teachers that said goodbye to their loved ones this morning as they headed off to Appalachia High School and that was the last time they had an opportunity to speak to their loved ones. And two of them were children. We're going to have more reaction coming up.

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[17:28:26]

TAPPER: We're back with more on the tragedy at Appalachia High School in Georgia. Two students killed, two teachers killed, all four by a 14-year-old student at the school. Another nine individuals at the school have been hospitalized. With me now, CNN Security Correspondent Josh Campbell.

Josh, one of the things that it seems very clear is that this could have been much worse, as horrible as it is, had there not already been some safety measures in place. One of them being we heard from a student that the doors in the school lock automatically. And apparently, according to her, the suspect left the classroom, got the gun, came back and was not able to get into that classroom because the door was locked. And two, there were two what are called school resource officers, basically law enforcement officers assigned to the school.

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: That's right. I mean, this is yet another heartbreaking tragedy. But as you outlined there, so much of it is also just so chilling. And it really, you know, gives me pause to stop and think about just the randomness of this gun violence, this epidemic in this country. As you mentioned, the shooter comes to the door. He's not able to get in, and so he turns, he goes into another classroom and opens fire.

I mean, just the sheer randomness of that is so chilling. And it shows us that in this era where there's easy access to guns in this country, including by a 14-year-old who can go and open fire inside of a school, that means all of us, our loved ones, are just one random act away from potentially being shot and killed. So chilling.

[17:30:10]

And then, as you mentioned, the law enforcement officers themselves, having them there's no question in my mind. But for those officers confronting this individual, we don't know what the type of ammunition this person had, the number of rounds. But certainly you can imagine this could have been a lot worse had law enforcement not been there.

And it's important to point out, you know, we've long covered the Uvalde attack, for example. That was a colossal, unforgivable, inexcusable failure by law enforcement officers in that hallway to save those innocent children. But that's the outlier. Law enforcement in this day -- in this country every single day rush towards violence, putting themselves in harm's way in order to protect the innocent. And it looks like that's what we saw here today.

You had the school resource officers confronting a shooter, knowing this person was armed, knowing this person was dangerous and deadly. Yet, they did their job, and thankfully, he surrendered and no additional loss of life occurred.

TAPPER: Yes. Josh Campbell, thanks so much.

With us now, Democratic Congressman Jared Moskowitz of Florida. Congressman, I know that, sadly, this is not the first nor it will be the last school shooting that you are being asked to react to, but what is your reaction to what happened today?

REP. JARED MOSKOWITZ (D-FL): Now, hi, Jake. It's good to be with you. I'm in Parkland right now, a mile from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, where I graduated from. I saw you had Max Schachter one of the parents who lost their kid in that building. I shouldn't know, Max.

And now there are families who join an exclusive club that they've been drafted into involuntarily. And so, you know, it's -- it's -- it's more of the same. You know, we're going to find out, obviously, more about the shooter. We're going to find out what worked from a school safety perspective, what didn't work. It's good to see that the SRO's here engaged in Parkland. The SRO did not.

And we'll continue to work on school safety in -- in states where that seems to be doing the most work, where Congress is failing. But this is just heartbreaking. This has been something that one political party has just accepted as part of the political reality in this country in order to have freedom. Florida rejected that, red state Florida, Republican Florida rejected that.

It was my bill where we raised the age to buy a gun to 21. We instituted red flag laws which have been used 19,000 times in the state of Florida in the last six years. And we have three day waiting periods. It doesn't mean we're going to stop everything, but it's about mitigation. It's about mitigating the damage if an individual wants to throw their life away and walk into a school.

TAPPER: Yes, we had, we did a piece, a former CNN correspondent who was based in Florida named Leyla Santiago did a piece looking at the effect of the red flag law and interviewed a Republican county sheriff, a gun owner, I believe, who -- who talked about how great that law has been in terms of preventing not only homicides, but -- but suicides.

And this is, as you note, something that was passed in the wake of the horrific shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida. This law that governor, I think it was Governor Scott at the time, signed into law. It expanded background checks. It banned bump stocks. It had a three-day waiting period to purchase a handgun. It raised the age limit for purchasing -- for purchasing a long gun to 21. That -- that was your provision of it.

But even though Rick Scott signed that as governor of Florida, he opposed it as -- as a senator from Florida. Why do you think it was easier for Republicans in red Florida to support these kinds of gun reforms than it is for Republicans in the U.S. Senate?

MOSKOWITZ: Well, I mean, what happened in Florida in a three-year period is we had pulse. We had the Fort Lauderdale airport shooting, and then we had Parkland three years in a row. Florida had become a center almost for this. And so you saw Republicans in the state House and the state Senate, along with Governor Rick Scott.

In fact, it was a majority of Republicans who passed that -- pass that law would have to because they control both houses. Why can they do it at the state level? Why think they decided to show leadership? We had the strongest NRA lobbyist here in Florida opposing that, Marion Hammer. Marion Hammer was the NRA president. Nationally, she's the one who wrote Stand Your Ground here in Florida, made Florida a petri dish. But I think Republicans decided it was enough.

And that doesn't mean they weren't against the Second Amendment. It means they were trying to find balance. There's no protests in Florida for people who can't buy a gun here at all, zero. And so we can find a balance, but we just -- we don't have that leadership in Washington because the system is set up not to find compromise, not to find these things.

[17:35:13]

I mean, my colleagues across the aisle, we're going back to Washington next week. What are we doing? We're going to subpoena Tim Walz in -- in the Education Committee. We're sending the vice presidential candidate a subpoena. And then in the very same day, my colleagues want to talk to us about the weaponization of government. So we're not -- this is -- the 118th Congress isn't serious about handling things for the American people, lowering costs, keeping people safe in their communities. It's going to take a new Congress to try to lead on these issues. And -- and while we don't know the specifics here, right, with each case is slightly different, but there's a current, a similar current that runs through all of them.

And -- and if we find out more details similar to the Michigan case, this is a 14-year-old obviously didn't buy that gun legally on their own. And so we'll have to find out what the parents knew or didn't know. Just like the shooter that almost killed former President Trump a couple of weeks ago.

TAPPER: Yes, I mean, the Venn diagram of where the solution is, is pretty simple. You have a circle that represents the prevalence of guns in this country. You have a circle that represents mental health issues. Most people with mental health issues are not dangerous at all. Most guns are not going to be misused. But then where there is this overlap, keeping guns out of the hands of these people who have serious troubles, that's where Congress needs to focus.

And I'm glad that there has been some focus. It would be nice if there were -- there were more. Congressman Jared Moskowitz of Florida, thanks so much for your time.

We are getting more accounts from students who lived through this tragedy, what they saw, what they heard, that's next.

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[17:40:44]

LYELA SAYARATH, APALACHEE HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT: The moment that it happened, he was at the door, and they -- I knew they were looking for him already, but he was at the door, and they almost let him in until they backed up, and then he turned away. And that's when you hear, like, the first rounds of fire.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: A student from Apalachee High School that we heard from at the top of this hour, she sat next to the alleged shooter in algebra class. This morning, he excused himself, apparently went to get the firearm, was not let back into the classroom, but still nonetheless began a deadly rampage at this high school in Winder, Georgia.

We now turn to Joshua Skule, former FBI assistant director for intelligence, and Stephen Gutowski, founder of the Reload, which focuses on gun issues. Thanks to both of you for being here. Joshua, as you look at this latest tragedy, how do we keep finding ourselves in this place, and what more can we do?

JOSHUA SKULE, FORMER FBI EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR INTELLIGENCE: Well, Jake, you know, first of all, it's heartbreaking to see this year after year, every -- every time, you know, school is back in session, there's multiple of these a year across the country. And so I think there are several things that can be done.

First of all, I want -- hats off to the SRO's who reacted so quickly to prevent further loss of life. And so having SRO's and funding them and training them appropriately, there are other measures you can take at schools to prevent folks from getting guns in. There are aggressive measures, but they do keep our students safe, if you had metal detectors. And then there's other laws that we should be holding our elected leaders accountable to make sure that our children are safe. That's their number one responsibility.

TAPPER: Stephen, we heard that the suspect in custody, the alleged shooter, is only 14 years old. Authorities say he immediately surrendered when confronted by the SRO's, the school resource officers. What does that tell you?

STEPHEN GUTOWSKI, FOUNDER, THE RELOAD: To me, it -- it tells -- it tells us that whoever owns that firearm may be in serious criminal trouble down the line here because in Georgia, if you allow a minor access to at least a handgun in, we don't know what the weapon was yet, but in that circumstance, if you -- if you allow that to happen, you might actually face criminal charges. So something similar to what we saw with the Crumbley's in -- in Michigan may be coming down the line here.

TAPPER: What is the objection that gun rights individuals have to safe storage laws which require those who own firearms to lock them up or have trigger locks to prevent this kind of thing, theoretically, from happening?

GUTOWSKI: Yes, I think the -- there's not much objection to the type of law that Georgia has where it's reliant on negligence or allowing a minor to have access to a firearm without proper parental supervision. The opposition generally comes with stricter laws surrounding storage, especially ones where the owner has to have the gun unloaded and locked because people have concerns about accessibility for self- defense. That's generally where you see opposition to those laws come from.

I think there probably is some, you know, middle ground there that you can see more laws dealing with allowing access to minors who -- what, you know, irresponsibly allowing access to minors. There may be more middle ground on that.

TAPPER: Joshua, what difference does it make to authorities to have the suspect alive and in custody?

SKULE: Jake, it's a big difference. One, they're learning from him on what the motive is. As we have seen from Butler, Pennsylvania, that's still a big, outstanding issue. They are learning from him to see how he acquired the weapon and seeing from him, was he supported or are there any others that have the ideology which we don't know right now, but are others supporting in -- in his circle.

TAPPER: Interesting. Stephen, parents across the country, around the world are watching this as schools are -- are back, kids are back in classrooms. What more can parents and students do to -- to keep the kids safe?

[17:45:05]

GUTOWSKI: Yes, I mean, it's difficult. It sounds like there was -- there may have been some sort of warning or threat called initially here. There were school resource officers on hand. And so I think that shows you just how difficult it is to entirely eliminate these -- these sorts of situations in the United States at the moment, although it's very likely those officers did prevent further harm happening.

But, you know, there -- there's obviously going to be a continued debate over exactly how to -- to handle this, whether it's, as was just suggested, more security at the school in the form of metal detectors or, you know, often in the pro-gun community, you will hear calls for armed teachers. And the -- the idea there is that even if you have officers on scene, they may not be able -- they might not be at the spot where the shooting occurs.

It sounds like that's -- that's what happened here. They weren't able to get there immediately. And in theory, an armed teacher could or armed staff could. But obviously, that's a highly controversial position, and it's unlikely that we're going to see one single solution throughout the entire nation.

TAPPER: Stephen and Joshua, thanks to both of you for your expertise. Appreciate it. We're going to have much more in the wake of today's mass shooting. The very latest information coming in, that's ahead.

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[17:50:14]

TAPPER: As we continue to cover the news of yet another mass shooting at a school in the United States. Today at a high school in Georgia where we know at least at this moment, four people were killed, two students and two teachers. We are also following major developments in Israel. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was defiant today, saying that the war against Hamas in Gaza will continue and Israel will not withdraw from a key area on Gaza's southern border with Egypt. This in the face of mass protests in Israel and emotional pleas from hostage families for the Prime Minister to accept a hostage and ceasefire deal. Netanyahu addressed international media in English today. Listen to what he had to say.

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BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: People said, yes, but if you stay, this will kill the deal. And I say such a deal will kill us and there won't be a deal that way. This is a false narrative. I'm willing to make a deal. The real obstacle to making a deal is not Israel and it's not me. It's Hamas. It's Sinwar.

(END VIDEO CLIP) TAPPER: CNN's Jeremy Diamond was at that press conference. And Jeremy, you asked Netanyahu directly about an American hostage believed to be alive in Gaza.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Jake. Like so many other families, the family of Keith Siegel, an American Israeli hostage held in Gaza, are deathly afraid for his life, especially as the Israeli Prime Minister digs in on this position that has become a key sticking point in these negotiations. But no one knows better than Aviva Siegel, his wife, who is also a former hostage herself. And so I spoke with her before going to that press conference. Here's what I asked the Prime Minister.

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DIAMOND: Prime Minister, Jeremy Diamond, CNN. I spoke to Aviva Siegel tonight, a former hostage whose husband is still being held in Gaza. She told me that she believes that you are sentencing her husband, Keith, to die by prioritizing the Philadelphi corridor over a deal. And she has this question for you. Is Keith going to come home alive or dead?

NETANYAHU: I'll do everything to make sure that Keith and all the other hostages come back. I'm telling you that if we relieve the pressure, if we get out of the Philadelphi corridor, we're not going to get the hostages back. Certainly we're going to condemn a lot of them to stay there. We could get a few out. They'll give us that, but they'll leave a lot with them. We won't have the pressure point and something else will happen. We will not be able to come back.

So we won't release all the hostages and we won't achieve the defenses that we must have to prevent more October 7th, again and again and again. I don't stand in judgment of these tormented souls because they're undergoing an agony that is hard to -- hard to fathom, and I understand that.

But the responsibility of leaders is not merely to share the sentiment, the emotion, but also to exercise judgment, the correct judgment to make sure that these horrors do not happen again. I believe that our strategy is the best way to achieve both goals.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DIAMOND: And you'll notice, Jake there, that the Israeli prime minister said Keith would come back. He did not say he would come back alive, which is exactly what his wife wanted to know. I also quick -- quickly asked the Israeli Prime Minister about the mounting death toll in Gaza and what else he would do to minimize civilian casualties. He said he would not change any policies in Gaza to minimize civilian casualties. Jake?

TAPPER: All right. Jeremy Diamond in Tel Aviv, thanks so much.

And a reminder today that there are still four American hostages believed to be alive in Gaza. They are Edan Alexander, Sagui Dekel- Chen, Omar Neutra and Keith Samuel Siegel, obviously, Hersh Goldberg- Polin is no longer alive.

[17:54:17]

There's also breaking news on the political front, this one about next week's presidential debate. We're back in a moment with that.

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TAPPER: And we are following breaking news on two fronts this afternoon. The White House reacting to the horrific deadly shooting at a high school in Georgia. We also have breaking news in the 2024 presidential race. A big development when it comes to the rules of the upcoming presidential debate, the first one ever between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris. It is just six days away. And we're going back to CNN's MJ Lee at the White House. And MJ, you have an update from the Harris campaign.

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the Harris campaign has finally and officially agreed to the rules of next week's debate against Donald Trump that is being hosted by "ABC News." The rules do include mics being muted when a candidate is not speaking. That was the final hang up for the Harris campaign, as you know, Jake.

But the Harris campaign is making clear that they are not happy about this rule, even though they have finally agreed and relented. They actually wrote in a letter sent to "ABC News" this afternoon that the Vice President, a former prosecutor, will be fundamentally disadvantaged by this format, which will serve to shield Donald Trump from direct exchanges with the Vice President. We suspect this is the primary reason for the campaign's insistence on muted microphones.

But they said that they didn't want to risk the former president pulling out of next week's debate and that they did receive some assurances from "ABC News" about what would happen if there happened to be some serious crosstalk between the Vice President and the former president. This includes the network making sure that the mics actually would be turned on briefly if there is serious crosstalk and that the moderator would really play a role in explaining to the audience if something is not picked up by the mics that are turned off.

And also we should keep in mind there will be some pool reporters in the room who can presumably listen and report on any notable exchanges. This all gives us some insight into what the Harris campaign believes is a potential strength for the Vice President that is reacting in real time to the former president.

[18:00:14]

Now, all of this comes, of course, as the president has been here at the White House monitoring the school shooting that happened earlier today in Georgia, of course, putting out a statement lamenting the lives lost and also calling on Congress to take additional action. Jake?

TAPPER: All right, MJ Lee with the latest, thanks so much. The news continues on CNN with Wolf Blitzer and The Situation Room.