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The Lead with Jake Tapper
14-Year-Old Suspect And His Father Appear In Court; Judge: Suspect's Father Could Face Up To 180 Years In Prison; Officials: Suspect Father "Knowingly" Allowed His Son To Have Gun; Liz Cheney: Dick Cheney Will Vote For Kamala Harris; Walz: MI Pro-Palestinian Protesters Speaking Out For Right Reasons; Man Arrested In Alleged Plot To Attack NYC Around Oct. 7; Veterans Win Major Legal Victory In Fight Over Land For Housing. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired September 06, 2024 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[17:00:11]
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.
This hour, with just four days until their very first debate, the first time they're actually meeting ever, a key Harris ally has a warning for the vice president. The warning is do not underestimate Donald Trump. What we're learning about both candidates last minute's preparations for the big debate.
Plus, former Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney confirms that her father, the former vice president of the United States, two terms, very conservative, is going to join her in voting for Vice President Kamala Harris this November. And Cheney just revealed her plans for campaigning against Donald Trump.
And leading this hour, an emotional day in the courtroom for heartbroken Georgia families as the suspect in this week's school shooting and his father made their first appearances before a judge. The 14-year-old suspect learned he will not face the death penalty because he is a minor, although he will be tried as an adult. As for his father, the father now faces a maximum sentence of 180 years behind bars for giving his son a gun knowing that his son was, quote, "a threat to himself and others," according to the affidavit.
Let's bring in CNN Senior Legal Analyst Elie Honig.
Elie, the father allegedly gave the gun to his son despite knowing that his son was a threat to others. What other evidence could play a major role for prosecutors here?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: So, Jake, the key that prosecutors have to establish is that the father acted recklessly. And so to that end, I think prosecutors are going to be drawn to the fact that last year, in May of 2023, Georgia police visited the home because of complaints about the son posting online, fantasizing about a school shooting. So, I would be looking to prove, A, that the father knew about that visit, and B, that the father knew about those postings. I think if you combine that with the fact that the father then gave the 14-year-old an AR-15 as a gift, think you have a strong case there.
TAPPER: And, Elie, this is the second time in the history of the United States where a court has held parents responsible for the child's alleged actions in a school shooting. Is this going to become a prosecutorial trend, do you think? And how could this impact what happens in this case, impact future cases?
HONIG: I do think this is the start of a trend, Jake. Now, that's not to say that every parent will get charged in a school shooting case. Every case has to rise and fall on its own merits. But I can tell you for sure that when prosecutors come across a rare and extreme circumstance like this, they will get together and say, have we seen anything like this before? And how has it been charged in the past?
And now prosecutors in the future, unfortunately, will have two examples, the Michigan case and now this one where parents contributed allegedly to what happened and have been charged. So I do think in the future, sadly, we are going to see more charges along these lines.
TAPPER: And the prosecutors say that more charges are going to come against the suspected teen shooter. Which ones are you expecting?
HONIG: I think we will see charges relating to all the individuals who are shot and injured but not killed, and that's not unusual, Jake. Typically what you see is the murder charges get lodged immediately so that police can make an arrest, so that the shooter can be put in custody, taken off the streets. And then you'll see the other lesser charges, still very important, but lesser charges, aggravated assault, attempted murder, I think those are going to follow soon.
TAPPER: Elie Honig, thanks so much.
CNN's Isabel Rosales is in Georgia, and she brings us now more on today's court hearing and a community experiencing horrific grief.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JUDGE CURRIE MINGLEDORFF II, JACKSON COUNTY, GEORGIA: You were charged with four counts of felony murder.
ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The 14-year-old suspect in the Georgia high school shooting in court today with families of the victims just feet behind him. If convicted, Colt Gray would be the youngest mass school shooter since 1998.
MINGLEDORFF: The penalty for the crimes for which you are charged does not include death. It includes life without the possibility of parole or life with the possibility of parole.
ROSALES (voice-over): Just minutes after the suspected shooter left the courtroom, where he did not enter a plea, his father walked in for his own first appearance.
MINGLEDORFF: Currently charged with two counts of felony murder in the second degree, you're charged with four counts felony involuntary manslaughter. You're charged with eight counts of felony cruelty to children in the second degree.
ROSALES (voice-over): An arrest warrant for Colin Gray alleges he gave his son a firearm when he knew his son was a threat to himself and to others. It's only the second time a parent has been charged in connection with a mass shooting carried out by their child.
CHRIS HOSEY, DIRECTOR, GEORGIA BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION: The GBI has arrested Colin Gray, age 54, in connection to the shooting here at Appalachia High School.
ROSALES (voice-over): Last April, in an unprecedented case, the parents of Ethan Crumbley were each sentenced to 10 to 15 years for involuntary manslaughter. The swift arrest of suspect Colt Gray in Georgia, partly credited to the new security system the school implemented just one week ago, a mobile panic button teachers carry on their id badges immediately alerting law enforcement and school authorities.
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ROSALES: You think this saved lives?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One hundred percent saved lives.
ROSALES (voice-over): And unlike the school shooting in Parkland, Florida, officers were able to swiftly pinpoint the shooter's location.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By 26, I think 26 alerts during the incident when it started. Within five minutes of the first alert going off, we had the suspect in custody.
ROSALES (voice-over): For the victims, the stay in court offers only some solace. The mother of 14-year-old Christian Angulo, one of the students fatally shot Wednesday, fought back tears as she talked about her loss.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): He didn't deserve this. He didn't deserve to die like this. I miss him.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TAPPER: Our thanks to Isabel Rosales for that report.
I want to bring in someone who works tirelessly to protect children from gun violence. Nicole Hockley is the co-founder and co-CEO of the nonprofit Sandy Hook Promise. We've been talking to Nicole for years. Her son Dylan, along with 19 other children and six adults, were murdered in the horrific Sandy Hook Elementary School mass shooting in December 2012.
And Nicole, we have a picture of your beautiful boy up on the screen right now. It is difficult to accept the fact that it's been nearly twelve years since you and your family were forced into such unspeakable tragedy. And yet here we are again, another mass shooting at a school in the United States. Four families shattered forever. Another community thrown into trauma.
It's hard to think of anything positive that could come out of such a senseless act of violence. But you and others continue to work hard to try to find a way to find solutions to fight this. What kind of policies do you think have worked in preventing gun violence?
NICOLE HOCKLEY, CEO, SANDY HOOK PROMISE: Well, there's actually quite a lot of policies that can work. Things like secure storage and temporary transfer, also known as an extreme risk protection order. These are ways to temporarily remove access to firearms from someone who could be in crisis or at risk of hurting themselves or someone else. Georgia doesn't have a lot of these state laws on the books. I'm not sure if they have any state laws on the books.
So we really want to work with all of the legislators there on all sides to advance policies like that that could have helped with this case and could certainly and have been proven to stop shootings elsewhere. So there's a lot of simple opportunity that we're seeing work in other states that we can certainly implement in Georgia as well.
TAPPER: This is now the second case in the U.S. where we see a parent being held legally responsible for their child's alleged actions in a school shooting. Do you expect this to become the new normal? Do you support it? And what else needs to change?
HOCKLEY: I really hope this doesn't become the new normal because that means that parents are still not taking their responsibilities very seriously in terms of how they keep their children safe from being able to access firearms and how they respond to signs of a crisis or threat. However, I think this is a wakeup call, and I do applaud, you know, what happened in Michigan, and I applaud that this is being prosecuted here in Georgia as well. And I think that this is a wakeup call to any parent that has guns in the home. That's not to say you are a bad parent. It is to say, are you being as safe as you need to be?
Are you recognizing signs of crisis in your child? Are you taking action and getting them the support that they need? And are you ensuring that they don't have access to things like AR-15s, especially if they're troubled? These are simple responsibilities that good firearm owners practice. So I think this is a wakeup call to say you're not immune to this just because of some other laws that are on the books at the moment, like PLCAA.
This is something that you have to be responsible for. You're responsible for your child. You're responsible for their actions.
TAPPER: At a campaign event in Phoenix yesterday, former President Trump's running mate, Ohio Senator JD Vance was asked what specific policies he supports to end this epidemic of school shootings. I want to play some of his answer and get your reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. JD VANCE (R-), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Strict gun laws is not the thing that is going to solve this problem. I don't like that this is a fact of life. But if you're -- if you are a psycho and you want to make headlines, you realize that our schools are soft targets and we have got to bolster security at our schools.
I don't want my kids to go to school in a place where they feel like you've got to have additional security. But that is increasingly the reality that we live in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: What's your reaction?
HOCKLEY: The reality that we live in is that this is happening and that it's preventable. Accepting that and saying that's just the way it is in America, that this is the way we have to live our lives is completely unacceptable. And there were armed security at this school. There were armed security at Uvalde. There are armed security at a lot of mass shootings.
[17:10:14]
They are there to protect, but it's often too late. You need to be ahead of it. You need to be focusing on the signs and getting person help before they ever access a firearm and then bring it to the school. So I think this is -- nobody wants their child to go to school in a fortress. We also can't build fortresses in every place of America. More guns is not the answer.
More security is not the answer. Getting more help, more tools and resources, and more good gun safety regulation on the books is proven to work in terms of suicide and homicide in mass shootings. I refuse to accept that this is our reality, especially when we have created this reality and have the power to change it.
TAPPER: Nicole, what's your advice for the families who lost their loved ones and how are you and your family doing?
HOCKLEY: My advice to the families who lost -- I mean, my heart is with them completely, and that needs to be a core focus right now. What sort of help are they getting and how are we helping them move through this? Because you never get over it. It's almost twelve years since Dylan was killed, and I still grieve for him every single day, and I will until the day I die, and as will my surviving son. You know, I reached out to him afterwards and I said, how are you doing?
And he said, this is heartbreaking. He said, even the social media, the texts that are going out on social media as children in that school were reaching out to their parents. So I think there's -- we're holding that community in our hearts, and we're going to help them through this in the same way so many communities have helped so many other people through this, and it's going to take time.
So I would just say, hold on to the ones that you love, but also, when you're ready, use your voice if you want to, and if you're able to, demand better legislation, demand more accountability, demand people recognize the signs and even demand things like understanding, getting access to social media records. We know that firearms are marketed to kids. This father gave his son an AR-15 as a holiday gift. I don't know if the child put that on his wish list for Santa because he'd been marketed from all the things that he saw on social media or not. These are questions that we need to ask, to understand why are young people turning to firearms and what can we do to help them make better choices as well.
TAPPER: Nicole Hockley, as always, thank you so much. We are sending you and your family strength and love, and may the memory of your beautiful son Dylan, may it be a blessing forever.
When the ballots are cast this November, Liz Cheney says both she and her father, the former Republican vice president of the United States, are going to be voting for progressive Democrat Vice President Kamala Harris. And Cheney has just announced her campaign plans to try to help Donald Trump be defeated.
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LIZ CHENEY, FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: Dick Cheney will be voting for Kamala Harris.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: That's not a deep fake. That was actually said today. Former Republican Congresswoman, staunch Trump critic, Liz Cheney making that news earlier today in Texas that her father, the very Republican, very conservative vice president, two terms, is going to vote for progressive Democrat Kamala Harris.
I'm back with my panel. Joining us is former Trump White House Communications director Alyssa Farrah Griffin, who is a Trump critic as well. Your reaction?
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Listen, I'm not surprised. Liz Cheney is someone who put her career on the line to do what was right. She has been a vocal critic of the former president since January 6 and she's endorsed Democrats before. She supported Abigail Spanberger, Elissa Slotkin. I think this is noteworthy. We've talked a lot this election about the so called Nikki Haley voters, this roughly 20 percent --
TAPPER: That's like you.
GRIFFIN: -- of primary voters who voted, turned out to vote against Trump in the primary and even kept voting after Nikki Haley was out of the race. Those voters are better understood as Liz Cheney voters. They're people who are reliable Republicans, probably with them in 2016, probably with him in 2020, but January 6 was a bridge too far. Not supporting Ukraine is a bridge too far. And that's enough voters to potentially sway the election.
TAPPER: What do you think?
ASHLEE RICH STEPHENSON, REPUBLICAN POLLSTER: Well, President Trump has the support of Nikki Haley. So if I'm working on the Trump campaign, she spoke at the RNC, I would deploy Nikki Haley into the seven battleground states that actually matter to make sure that they're shoring up the vote. And we've seen her out there on the stump. So, does a Liz Cheney and a Dick Cheney endorsement for Vice President Harris matter? I would argue probably not, because those Nikki Haley voters, the fresher, newer ones, are already going to probably be with Trump.
She's with him, too.
TAPPER: What do you think?
NAYYERA HAQ, SENIOR DIRECTOR OF CABINET AFFAIRS, OBAMA ADMINISTRATION: Well, the Dick Cheney endorsement is actually the one that seems to be shocking and a reminder of how far we have come from the grand old party of even the Bush administration. And to have someone like Cheney and Kamala Harris effectively on the same side is a better understanding of the risk to American democracy and national security. I mean, we have Trump's own former chief of staff, former defense secretary, former generals all talking about how he is a risk to national security. And now to have Dick Cheney come and remind us of that is, I think, very compelling.
GRIFFIN: And that's a key --
TAPPER: You look like you wanted to say something.
STEPHENSON: Look, I think that voters are really concerned about the economy. I think endorsements are fun. It's a good flavor of the day we had RFK a couple of weeks ago. Nobody's talking about it anymore. The page is going to turn here pretty quickly.
And I don't think that a Liz Cheney or a Vice President Cheney endorsement is going to change the trajectory of this (inaudible).
TAPPER: An endorsement, maybe not necessarily. But Alyssa react to this because it's not just a pledge to vote for Kamala Harris. Liz Cheney says she's going to hit the campaign trail. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHENEY: I'm not a campaign surrogate. I'm not --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
CHENEY: -- you know, officially, I'm not, you know, technically out there as a surrogate, but absolutely going to be in many key battleground states --
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
CHENEY: -- very much focused on how important it is that we defeat him in this cycle.
(END VIDEO CLIP
TAPPER: So if she goes to, let's say, Georgia, Arizona, and, I don't know, Scranton, Pennsylvania, you know, part of the Reagan Democrat parts of Michigan, I mean, she could create a permission structure for Republicans to vote for Harris, I guess.
GRIFFIN: Well, and that's -- it's not just by the way republicans vote for Harris. It's undecided, swing voters, moderates, independents, suburban women. Think of Georgia, which Biden won by only 11,000 votes, having a former popular lieutenant governor like Jeff Duncan, a lifelong Republican, who looks out a central cast and say it's OK to be with a Democrat this time because democracy is on the line, supporting our allies is on the line. Having a Liz Cheney, a name that is associated with being a Republican much longer than Donald Trump's name, has been out in Pennsylvania saying, hey, this is about turning the page on the past, on the chaos, on the drama, that could absolutely work in these tight margin states.
HAQ: And it's specifically, and Alyssa, you were talking about this earlier, is to the down ballot tickets as well. It's not just a Harris play, this is about the different Senate candidates and making sure that that margin doesn't change or swings Democratic next cycle.
STEPHENSON: I think we need to pay attention to turnout to bring this full circle. President Trump had the incredible ability to turn people out to vote in 2016, zero four voters, as we call them, they don't regularly participate. And what do they have to do? They have to make up the margin here. So I think digging into some of those rural counties for people who don't typically participate, that's the challenge and that's what Trump has to do to offset this.
TAPPER: And let's talk about the debate now because, Alyssa, you spoke earlier with Democratic governor Josh Shapiro on "The View" and he said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D-PA): Listen, as much as we want to criticize Donald Trump, he's a liar, e's all these things, I think you said it before, people know Donald Trump. He is a skilled debater. He is a guy who is willing to say anything at any time just to get through a question. And he's a showman. He's been on T.V. before.
So, don't underestimate Donald Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So, Donald Trump has been doing presidential debates since 2015. He did them 2015, 2016, 2020, and now he's about to do his second one this year against a second opponent. STEPHENSON: Folks shouldn't underestimate him. This is a man who came up in the world of television, mass communicating to audiences. There's a world in which you get the Hannibal Lecter shouting out the Proud Boys off the rails, Donald Trump. But I think it's far more likely you're going to get somebody who's trying to entertain, keep people's focus and is going to hit on the few issues that he really succeeds on, border security and the economy. The worst thing the Harris campaign could do is underestimate him going into it because he's proven he is capable of getting through these debates.
I would argue he actually had a pretty successful second debate against Joe Biden last time. If that Donald Trump shows up, that's much tougher for Harris.
TAPPER: Yes. And she just experience wise does not have the experience when it comes to doing these debates that he does.
Nayyera Haq, Ashlee Rich Stephenson, Alyssa Farah Griffin, thanks one and all for being here. Have a great weekend, all of you.
We are just four days away from next week's presidential debate, and it will be a CNN special event complete with analysis. Look out for that next Tuesday night at 9:00 Eastern Live from Philadelphia.
Up next, a CNN exclusive interview with two college students who say they were assaulted on campus because of their faith. Stick with us.
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TAPPER: In our national lead, as the school year begins, college campuses are bracing for student protests as the one year mark of the Israel-Hamas war approaches, October 7, obviously. Just a week ago at one elite university in Pennsylvania, two Jewish students say they were physically attacked. And CNN's Gabe Cohen sat down for an exclusive interview with these college seniors.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ILAN GORDON, UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH STUDENT: I was like, oh my God, were just assaulted out of nowhere.
GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the spot where Asher Goodwin and Ilan Gordon, two Jewish seniors, were attacked from behind at the University of Pittsburgh while walking to Shabbat dinner last week, struck with a glass bottle across their heads.
GORDON: All of a sudden, I just got hit.
COHEN (voice-over): Asher's neck was cut. Ilan says he suffered a concussion.
ASHER GOODWIN, UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH STUDENT: I haven't come to terms with it completely. COHEN (voice-over): Police arrested a middle aged man with no connection to Pitt. And in their report noted that he was wearing a kefiyyah, a headdress worn across the Middle East that's commonly associated with support for Palestine, often seen at protests nationwide. But to be clear, we don't know any more about his motive. He's charged with assault, harassment, and resisting arrest. But a letter from the school to the community says law enforcement determined no specific group was targeted.
GORDON: Asher and I were the only two students wearing yarmulkes, openly Jewish, and were the only ones attacked by this man wearing a keffiyah who came from across the street.
COHEN: So you think you were targeted because you clearly look Jewish?
GORDON: Yes.
COHEN (voice-over): That feeling comes from the tremendous tension on college campuses right now. The protests over the war in Gaza are back at schools like Columbia, Georgetown, and here at Pitt, where demonstrators verbally sparred Tuesday night in an otherwise peaceful protest.
COHEN: What has it felt like to be a Jewish student on this campus?
GOODWIN: I feel like an alien. It's also now common rhetoric that if you go to Hillel, then you support genocide.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shut it down.
COHEN (voice-over): Many of the people protesting are frustrated, too, some still facing fallout from the mass arrests during the spring demonstrations.
KARIM SAFIEDDINE, PROTEST ORGANIZER AND UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURH STUDENT: We completely reject any form of violence, particularly violence based on racial or bigoted narratives against any people.
COHEN (voice-over): Karim Safieddine is a grad student and protest organizer here at Pitt.
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SAFIEDDINE: Keep in mind that the primary message of these protests is against occupation, genocide, murder and killing.
COHEN: Do you feel like that message has gotten lost?
SAFIEDDINE: We're seeing an imposed blanket assessment and assumption on all protests, on all protesters, on all demonstrators. And I don't think that's fair.
COHEN (voice-over): Dozens of schools are tightening security or adjusting school policy crack down on campus protests.
ASHER GOODWIN, UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH STUDENT: The line that we need to draw is when what they are saying is inflammatory speech that is inciting violence against Jewish students.
ILAN GORDON, UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH STUDENT: And the universities of America, not just the University of Pittsburgh, has to condemn this and has to do something against these organizations.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COHEN (on camera): So, Jake, back to the case. It is really messy. The alleged attack, are now facing charges for another harassment incident the day before in Pittsburgh. And authorities have not been able to tell us definitively if they think anti-Semitism was actually a factor in any of this. And so we're going to have to see where the investigation goes. But the response that we heard around campus clearly shows that tension there.
And look, the students we spoke with, they said they want to lower the temperature, and yet it only seems to be rising, Jake, especially ahead of the election.
TAPPER: All right, Gabe Cohen, thanks so much.
Joining us now is Josh Kraushaar, who's the editor-in-chief of -- of Jewish Insider. Josh, let's talk about how this issue is showing up in the presidential race. In an interview with the Central Michigan public radio station, WCMU, on Thursday, Democratic vice presidential nominee, Governor Tim Walz, condemned the October 7th attack on Israel as a horrific act of violence. He endorsed that Israel has a right to self-defense. But then he also said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MI), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We can't allow what's happened in Gaza to happen. The Palestinian people have every right to life and liberty themselves. We need to continue, I think, to -- to put the leverage on to make sure we move towards a two-state solution. I think we're at a critical point right now. We need the Netanyahu government to start moving in that direction. But I think those folks who are speaking out loudly in Michigan are speaking out for all the right reasons. It's a humanitarian crisis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: What stands out to you in that response?
JOSH KRAUSHAAR, EDITOR IN CHIEF, JEWISH INSIDER: Well, look, he was speaking on a Michigan radio station, and Michigan is a state that's really flummoxed the -- the -- the Harris-Walz campaign because they're trying to win over moderate Jewish voters who are alarmed at what you just saw in Pittsburgh and the anti-Semitism taking place across the country. But they also have a very vocal Arab population that they're trying to appeal to.
So you're seeing this sort of balance that the ticket has been trying to do. I think what concerned a lot of Jewish voters with that interview was there was more of an emphasis criticizing Israel and pressuring Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu. And that took place days after Hamas executed six hostages, including an Israeli American, Hersh -- Hersh Goldberg-Polin. And I think there -- there -- there's a concern, especially among Jewish voters that the emphasis has to be on attacking and criticizing Hamas. And -- and there's a worry that there's not enough of that from the Democratic Party messaging.
TAPPER: So Tucker Carlson had a two-hour sit down with a podcaster, Darryl Cooper, who fancies himself a historian of sorts, and he claims that the Nazis systematic murder of millions of Jews, 6 million Jews, was just an unintended consequence. He blamed Winston Churchill for a lot of what happened. Now, Republican vice presidential nominee, J.D. Vance has an event with Tucker Carlson later this month. He was asked if it was appropriate for him to sit down with Tucker, given some of the people of Tucker's platform, that historian Candace Owens and others. Here's what J.D. Vance had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Agree or disagree with anything that Tucker Carlson or his guests say. We believe in free speech. We believe if you don't like an idea, and obviously, you know, I -- I -- the Holocaust was a terrible tragedy, and it's something that we have to make sure never gets repeated again in this country. The best way, I think, to ensure or sorry, never gets repeated again anywhere in the world, certainly in this country or anywhere else, the best way to ensure that doesn't happen is to debate and push back against bad ideas. It's not to try to censor and suppress them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: I don't know that anybody was calling for censoring and suppressing that. But what's your take on -- on the -- the answer there?
KRAUSHAAR: Yes. I mean, it's a pretty -- pretty weird, frankly, that you're -- you're talking about debating Holocaust denial. I mean, that -- that's usually in that interview that -- that you're talking about, Jake, the -- the -- the guest, this crackpot historian, made it seem like Hitler was the good guy and Winston Churchill was -- was the bad guy, the very -- very, very crazy ideas and things that usually would discredit the person hosting such a historian, in this case, Tucker Carlson.
And like you said, Jake, Tuck -- J.D. Vance is scheduled to be at a rally in Pennsylvania with -- with Tucker Carlson. He's obviously a -- a very close ally of Tucker Carlson's, dating back to his Senate campaign before that. This is the type of normalization of anti- Semitism, the type of extreme views that you would normally, would someone engage in that or would someone tolerate that? That would be taking them out of the political mainstream.
[17:35:04]
They -- you have to -- have to really excise them from political discourse. But instead we're talking about having a debate. And -- and you heard what J.D. Vance said there. There's a real normalization of this type of extreme rhetoric that -- that we haven't seen in -- in -- in quite a while.
TAPPER: The Republican Jewish Coalition had their summit virtually in Las Vegas, and here is President Trump addressing the group. I'm sorry. They had their convention and Trump addressed them virtually. Here -- here's what -- here's a little bit of what Trump had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Who are the 50 percent of Jewish people that are voting for these people that hate Israel and don't like the Jewish people? Why are they -- why are they voting? Why -- how do they exist?
They're going to be abandoned if she becomes president. And I think you have to explain that to your people because they don't know it. They have no idea what they're getting into. You're not going to have an Israel if they become -- if she becomes president. Israel will no longer exist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: He also often says that if you're Jewish and you're voting for Democrats, you need to have your head examined. That's for better or for worse, that's most Democrats vote Democratic.
KRAUSHAAR: Look, 70 percent of -- of Jews voted -- voted for Joe Biden. Republicans think they can make inroads in -- in the presidential race.
TAPPER: Is this the way to do that?
KRAUSHAAR: But that is not the way to do it. Every time that Republicans think they have a chance, they hear that rhetoric from Donald Trump and it pushes them away.
TAPPER: All right, Josh Kraushaar, thank you so much. Great to have you here. We'll have you back.
And as we talk about this, we're getting some breaking news. A man has been arrested, accused of planning a terrorist attack in New York City around the one year mark of the Israel-Hamas war. We're going to have those details in a moment.
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[17:40:48]
TAPPER: We have breaking news in our Law and Justice Lead. Federal authorities have charged a man over an alleged plot to carry out a mass shooting targeting Jewish people in New York City. The man is accused of planning to do this next month, one year after the horrific attacks by Hamas against Israel, October 7th. Let's bring in seniors Alex Marquardt. Alex, tell us what you know.
ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, we're just getting details now from the Department of Justice. A young Pakistani man residing in Canada, just 20 years old named Muhammad Shahzeb Khan, had intended to cross the border from Canada into the United States and specifically go to New York to carry out an attack on a Jewish center in Brooklyn on or around the anniversary of October 7th.
Of course, that is the -- the -- the one year mark since Hamas carried out that horrific attack inside Israel in which more than 1,200 Israelis were killed. This was done -- this would have been done, rather, the -- the DOJ is saying in support of ISIS. We have a quote from the attorney general, Merrick Garland. He said that this man had the stated goal of slaughtering in the name of ISIS as many Jewish people as possible. Now, Khan also spoke with undercover federal U.S. officials.
And in -- during those conversations, on an encrypted app, he admitted to the plot. He had initially planned to go somewhere else and then changed his plans to target a Jewish center in Brooklyn. And during these conversations, he said that New York is the perfect place to target Jews because it has the largest Jewish population in America.
Going on to say, if we succeed with our plan, this would be the largest attack on U.S. soil since 9/11. He planned to coordinate this attack with another ISIS supporter here in the United States using AR style semiautomatic and automatic weapons. He was arrested two days ago, on September 4th as he went towards the border, the Canadian side of the border with the United States. Obviously an -- an extremely troubling plot, the kind of thing that certainly authorities are going to be very afraid, the kind of thing that could happen as we get closer to that anniversary on October 7th, Jake.
TAPPER: All right. Horrific. Alex -- Alex Marquardt, thanks so much.
In our national lead, a major win for us veterans who were just granted some of the most valuable real estate in the world. We've been following the story on the lead for years. CNN's Nick Watt reports now on how it's taken decades of activism for veterans to finally obtain this land, even though it had been intended to be a home for disabled service members literally since the 1800s.
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NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): UCLA's beautiful baseball field, a private school's manicured playing fields, parking lot, an oil drilling company, a federal judge just ruled all must go to make way for veterans who need a place to live.
ROB REYNOLDS, IRAQ WAR VETERAN AND ADVOCATE: And today marks the first step towards a long road in getting that land back to its intended purpose as a soldier's home for disabled veterans.
WATT (voice-over): Brentwood School has spent millions building a football field, tennis courts, a swimming pool on this land and around a million more lobbying to keep it. In today's ruling, this, the Brentwood school lease is void. The court will determine an exit strategy for the Brentwood School's 22 acres. The same applies to UCLA's baseball field. MARK ROSENBAUM, PUBLIC COUNSEL: Today is the first real Veterans Day in America in a long, long time.
WATT (voice-over): Today's ruling comes after decades of activism, legal wrangling and media coverage from CNN and others. The plaintiffs, veterans who fought for their country, then fought their own government over this land given to the nation in the late 1800s as a home for disabled soldiers.
CHRISTINE BARRIE, FAMILY DONATED VA LAND: And it was a thriving community of 4,000 veterans at one point.
WATT (voice-over): There are currently just 233 permanent housing units in VA buildings here. More are under construction. Today's ruling requires the VA develop around 2,500 units of temporary and permanent housing here and give the neediest easy access to medical facilities on the campus. During the trial, Judge David Carter, a Vietnam veteran, took lawyers and others on a 10-mile hike all over this land.
DAVID CARTER, JUDGE: So this is VA.
WATT (voice-over): And in his ruling lambasted Presidents Obama, Trump and Biden. Each promised that they would act swiftly to eradicate veteran homelessness in America. Yet today, approximately 3,000 homeless veterans live in the Los Angeles area alone. And the judge lambasted the VA. Over the past five decades, the west L.A. VA has been infected by bribery, corruption, and the influence of the powerful, he wrote. And the cost of the VA's inaction is veterans' lives.
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WATT (on camera): Now the VA tell us they are carefully reviewing the judge's decision and will continue to do everything in our power to end veteran homelessness. They are doing better, but as the judge points out, they're only doing better since this legal action began. We're still waiting to hear from UCLA. Brentwood School tell us that they believe, they still believe that their lease complies with federal law. In a couple of weeks, the judge is going to meet to talk nuts and bolts of how to get UCLA and Brentwood School off this land. Jake?
TAPPER: The land is designated for veterans. Nick Watt in Los Angeles, thank you so much for your continued coverage of this story.
We're just moments away from a high stakes mission as Boeing attempts to bring home their spacecraft after weeks of delays and serious technical issues. We're following it all live, next.
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[17:50:25] TAPPER: We are following breaking news in our Out of This World Lead. In just minutes, Boeing Starliner spacecraft will attempt to undock from the International Space Station and then begin its trip back to Earth. The Starliner is not returning with the crew on board. NASA decided it was just too risky to put the two astronauts on this troubled craft.
We're joined now by CNN space and defense correspondent Kristin Fisher, who's live at the Johnson Space Center in Houston. We also have with us former astronaut Colonel Chris Hadfield, who served as a commander of the International Space Station. He's also the author of the novel "The Defector." Kristin, one of the very first issues could come up just as undocking begins. How is -- how is NASA preparing?
KRISTIN FISHER, CNN SPACE AND DEFENSE CORRESPONDENT: So, Jake, here at the Johnson Space Center, just a few buildings away from where I am now, they just conducted the go no go poll and NASA decided to move forward with the undocking, which should be taking place right around 6:04 p.m. Eastern time.
And to give you a sense of just how big this spaceship and this port is that the spaceship is docked to, I'm standing in front of the full scale mockup of the International Space Station here at the Johnson Space Center. This is the exact place where Butch and Suni and likely Commander Hadfield would have trained for their missions to the International Space Station. And this right here is the Harmony module. It basically serves as the bedroom for the NASA astronauts while they're up there.
And the docking port that is attached to the Harmony module, that is where Starliner is currently docked. And so what you're going to see soon on your screens is Starliner pushing away from the docking port that is attached to the Harmony module of the International Space Station. And Jake, you know, obviously the biggest concern with the undocking and return to Earth for Starliner was, of course, to those two astronauts, Starliner's crew, Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams.
But there was at least some discussion that because of these faulty thrusters that the spacecraft could somehow jeopardize the space station itself, NASA says they're not worried about that, though, because there are springs attached to both this docking port and the Starliner spacecraft itself. So even if those thrusters malfunction again, Jake, those springs, good old fashioned springs, should be able to push Starliner a safe distance away from the Space Station. Jake?
TAPPER: And colonel, what other potential issues are you going to be looking for during the return home?
COL. CHRIS HADFIELD (RET.), FORMER ASTRONAUT: Well, the first five minutes, as Kristin was saying, are super critical until they get out of the sort of the danger zone of the space station itself. And then there's two other biggest tests. One is somewhere around 10:00 tonight. They're going to turn the ship around backwards and fire the engine for a minute to -- to allow it to deorbit. And that'll be the big test of all the thrusters. And then the three parachutes have to open. And one of the previous tests, only two of them opened. And then the last thing, the airbags on the bottom have to open to cushion the landing down into the New Mexico desert. So still a lot of dominoes to fall. But finally we're at the point we're going to see how it all works.
TAPPER: All right, Kristin and Colonel, stick around. We're just moments away from this high risk space mission playing out live in real time. You're going to be able to watch it all happen here on CNN. We're going to squeeze in a quick break. We'll be right back.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- quickly, breakouts outside of the approach ellipsoid or AE about four minutes into the --
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TAPPER: And we're back with the breaking news and live images from Johnson Space Center in Houston. In just moments, the Boeing Starliner is going to attempt to undock from the International Space Station and then begin its journey back to Earth. The vessel is coming home empty without its astronauts aboard due to safety concerns. Retired astronaut Colonel Chris Hadfield is back with me. Colonel, if everything goes well tonight and it turns out the astronauts could have come home safely, do you think NASA will regret its decision?
HADFIELD: No. It -- it was a good, conservative decision to make and they would like to fly the vehicle next time with people on board, like maybe next August is the latest date I've seen. So -- so if this lands successfully, that'll be a big step forwards. We're starting to use it operationally next year.
TAPPER: You're looking right now for those of you who are watching us on the right side of your screen, our live pictures from outer space of the Starliner vessel -- vessel. Colonel, how important is it for Boeing and the space program in general for the spacecraft to safely arrive back on Earth?
HADFIELD: Well, it's -- the space program in general, having a second vehicle that can safely take people up and back, that's -- that's just great reserve to have. For Boeing, it's hugely important. They've spent billions on this. They really want to have a spaceship that works. So there's a lot of people with the cards in the game right now.
TAPPER: What are you keeping an eye on right now as this process begins?
HADFIELD: Separation rates, Jake. What -- how -- when the -- when those little springs fire to push it and then they start firing the thrusters, will the vehicle symmetrically -- symmetrically move away? Will it get out of control? Is it going to be a threat to the space station? That's the big immediate problem. As soon as that is safely 100 yards away from the station, everybody can breathe a sigh of relief. [18:00:18]
TAPPER: All right, Colonel Chris Hatfield, thank you so much.
And CNN's Wolf Blitzer is going to take o -- take over our live coverage of this major space mission. He's in The Situation Room. Don't forget to watch Dana Bash on State of the Union this Sunday. I'll see you next week.
