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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Pushes Multiple Falsehoods During Q&A; GOP & Dem Lawmakers Promise To Certify Election Results; Justice Jackson On Public Perception Of The Supreme Court; Pope: U.S. Voters Must Choose Between The "Lesser Of Two Evils"; Biden Meets With British PM As Ukraine War At Critical Juncture. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired September 13, 2024 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:01]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: That's exactly what one Arizona man claims happened to him. Thirty-two-year-old Andy Norton just dislodged to Lego that had been stuck in one of his nostrils since he was six sears old. Norton recalls playing with him as a kid and shoving a small dot shaped Lego brick into a place he later came to regret.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Now, he says he suffered from asthma and sleep apnea over the years. You don't say and eventually his doctor recommended blowing his nose in the shower to take advantage of this steam and humidity.

Well, what do you know? He can finally breathe from that side of his nose again.

And THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER starts now.

(MUSIC)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Well, Donald Trump took questions, but his answers only raised more.

THE LEAD starts right now.

From his close ties twice far-right firebrand, to his repeated and racist debunk conspiracy theories about migrants, Donald Trump was pressed on it all, but his responses likely won't silence his critics.

Plus, a stunner from and the pope, weighing in on the presidential election, sharing his opinion on both Trump and Harris. But will this take -- will this change any minds?

And CNN's rare interview today with Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson. What she says the high court is really concerned about behind the scenes.

(MUSIC)

BROWN: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Pamela Brown, in for Jake Tapper.

Fifty-three days until the 2024 presidential election and the campaign trail today is lively. Former President Donald Trump, just about an hour ago, wrapping up a Q&A with reporters in California, and he continued to reference Haitian migrants in Springfield, Ohio, vowing in a second term to enact large deportation starting in that town. A reminder for you, they are there legally.

He claimed that 94 percent of his Republican allies said he won the debate, a number one can only assume was made up right on the spot given many Trump allies, including Senator Lindsey Graham and Robert F. Kennedy, have gone on record saying Trump's performance left something to be desired.

And CNN's Kristen Holmes also asked the former president about the controversy surrounding far-right activist Laura Loomer, who often travels with Trump and has made racist posts that have been disavowed this week by Trump allies, including Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What would you say to your Republican colleagues, or your allies who are concerned about your close relationship with Laura Loomer?

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I don't know what they would say. Laura has been a supporter of mine, just like a lot of people are supporters and she has been a supporter of mine. She speaks very positively of the campaign.

I'm not sure why you asked that question, but Laura is a supporter. I don't control Laura. Laura has to say what she wants.

HOLMES: Your allies have expressed concern.

TRUMP: Well, I don't know. I mean, look, I can't tell Laura what to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Let's go straight to CNN's Kristen Holmes in California. It's interesting. I'm not sure why you asked that question. It certainly wasn't a surprise to him, Kristen.

HOLMES: Yeah. And, Pam, we know that it's not just the Republican allies that we've heard on the record saying publicly that they are concerned about Laura Loomer, like Marjorie Taylor Greene, like Lindsey Graham.

But we also know that there have been private phone calls from Republican allies to Donald Trump, to Donald Trump's heads of the campaign, expressing concern that when she's traveling with Donald Trump. We saw that people get off the plane with him at the debate. It was a very close knit group of advisers, his top advisers, his campaign managers, and the people who had helped him with the debate, and, Laura Loomer.

This is a plane and this was not an answer that really got to the heart of why it is that she's traveling with him or what he who would respond to people who have called her remarks recently, racist. And he was asked specifically if you would disavow after I spoke to him. If you disavow some of her comments and he said he didn't know what the comments were, but he take a look at them again.

We have spoken to allies who have talked to him, who have talked to heads of the campaign about her recent comments. Its not just recent, but over the last several years and told him their concerns. So this idea that this is all new to him seems pretty farfetched.

BROWN: All right. Kristen Holmes, thanks so much.

The panel is here to discuss. Let's start with Erin Perrine.

Erin, what movable voter is Trump winning by having people like Laura Loomer around him.

And do you think he really doesn't know the kinds of things she said about 9/11 and other topic?

ERIN PERRINE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, AXIOM STRATEGIES: There is not a persuadable voter that is going to see Laura Loomer coming around, Donald Trump and think that that's going to persuade them to now break for Donald Trump. It's not as much about winning voters as it is having people around him that support, that he likes, that he wants stay here from. That's why she's around him.

I don't think that that's a good choice. I think that peddling in racist tropes and in Islamophobia and in the hateful rhetoric that she has launched, not only at countless people across the country, but people like myself and my colleagues and my friends because we worked for somebody else in the primary.

[16:05:10]

There's no room for that in the Republican Party. We used to be able to be disagreeable and disagree at the same time. We could disagree without being disagreeable.

We didn't have to make a personal and be this overly heated rhetoric. It doesn't help the campaign and I'm a little surprised that Susie and Chris are putting around the plane as much as they are to travel with the president.

BROWN: Yeah, she was on the plane the day of his debate and some of his allies were concerned that perhaps he didn't do as well in the debate as he'd hope because she was in his ear, what do you say?

NAYYERA HAQ, SENIOR DIRECTOR OF CABINET AFFAIRS, OBAMA ADMINISTRATION: Well, this is the challenge that you have when such a big personality. And for so long the management of that personality has really been to cater to what Donald Trump wants and his wishes, rather than a set of logic or systems that help you execute a plan rather than just concepts of a plan.

Laura Loomer, I mean, she's a provocateur and those exists on both sides of the aisle, but there just seems to be this desire for Trump to get the attention of somebody who is provocative and has a large online following, rather than him this race.

BROWN: And we know that Trump doesn't like to diss people who are really nice to him and loyal to him as Laura Loomer has been.

And conversely, Jeff, does Trump risk alienating part of his base by not embracing people like Loomer, as you pointed out, somebody who has a large following.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Look, there's embracing and then there's also inviting someone on your plane on 911. I mean, it's entirely different. He could still be sort of friendly to Laura Loomer without sort of alienating her, without inviting him on his plane. I mean, she has been in the inner circle, like only a handful of people have.

So I think it's not about alienating the base. I mean, we're not -- I don't think any of his allies are staffer suggesting he should go out and pick a fight with her or trash her, but it's -- it's just the unusual timing and there's obviously something about her that he enjoys spending time with and that is something on him, but, Erin, was saying I'm really surprised. I think it's a sign of something else that really we've not seen yet in this campaign.

This has been a very disciplined for Donald Trump campaign. A much more professionally run campaign than his other two previous ones because of a Chris LaCivita and Susie Wiles, and this to me that he's calling his own shots on a lot of things.

BROWN: Yeah. It's interesting when you point that out, we were just looking at the ads from the Trump campaign and they've had more emphasis on the economy immigration and crime. And then you can draw us out with what Trump has been pushing this absurd like continually about Haitian migrants in Springfield, Ohio, cannot be pets and eating them.

Today, he cut off a reporter who tried to ask about two straight days of threats in Springfield at schools and city buildings. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Why do you still spread this false story?

TRUMP: No, the real threat is what's happening at our border because you have thousands of people being killed by illegal migrants coming in, and also dying. You have women dying as they come up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So there's no evidence to support his claims about Springfield, but help us better understand, Erin, this cynical strategy, frankly, to appeal to people's voters' fears.

PERRINE: It's not necessarily the cynical strategy as much as it is that he, when people are asking him those questions, he's always going to answer it, like that he just can't take it and pivot and go back to where the message should be, which is a professional political communicators what we train each of our candidates to do, which is you take the question, one, you can -- you can always answer the question you wish was asked, which sometimes gets you the follow up and pushed or you pivot.

If you get asked about Springfield, then you pivot to the fact that the southern border of the United States has been overrun under Biden- Harris and the fact that we have seen influxes into communities across the United States where resources are now so limited because of the failure of the Biden/Harris administration on immigration. Let's talk about that. Take the topic and pivot to the strong point.

Don't play into the question anymore about cats and dogs in Ohio, talk about what matters to the American people because they are telling you very clearly, it's the immigration issue at the southern border.

BROWN: When you say cynical strategy, I just want to clarify. It's not about how he answered that question in particular, just about overall continuing to bring this up, you know, this lie up.

HAQ: Yes.

BROWN: That Haitian migrants that are eating pets.

HAQ: Yeah, it gets to -- I mean, the fear is a key element of the strategy, and let's be clear, there are other elements of fear in campaigns, the fear of women bleeding out because they needed a medical procedure called an abortion, right? So the Democrats are using that as well.

But Trump returns to that without tying it to a policy. He finds something in his limited ecosystem information space and pops it up to a point where it doesn't matter to him if it's dangerous, right, he could pivot, but he will still double down on the thing that is causing him problems, but it's also creating a broader security challenge in the United States.

BROWN: I want to talk about Vice President Harris, too. She was in a Pennsylvania again today. She's made multiple stops there and I just think -- just to take a step back.

[16:10:02]

It just is a reminder of how razor thin this race is in these swing states. You know, with these movable voters, and there's not that many of them.

ZELENY: Without a doubt -- I mean, she's spent a part of seven of the last eight days in Pennsylvania. That really tells you all you need to know.

But look, here's why Pennsylvania is. We know, is the biggest swing state in terms of electoral votes, 19 electoral votes. But I think more interestingly, is where she is today. She's in Trump country. She's in a county that was plus 37 for the former president and plus 14, I believe. But what she's trying to do is bring down his margins here.

We'll see the degree to which she's able to do that. But I think where she's going is interesting. Look, I mean, Pennsylvania is absolutely essential. If she wins and keeps the blue wall together and wins that blue dot in Nebraska, she wins the presidency.

If she doesn't win Pennsylvania, then she has a harder route, obviously. She has to win either North Carolina plus another state. So, Pennsylvania is still not all the marbles, but most of the marbles, that's why she's there again. But interesting, that she's in a Republican part of Pennsylvania today.

HAQ: Also the idea that you can be Republican and not be a Trump supporter. Enthusiasm is a key part in this election, which Democrats were lacking on the front end and now it seems to have picked up in their favor. You're ultimately fighting on election day to get people off their sofas and willing potentially to go out and bad weather to vote for you.

So if she's able to create enough doubt in Trump country to suppress the numbers there, those margins matter. The other thing she did in the debate that I thought was very key, was taking a foreign policy issue and making it very directly applicable to Americans right now. It's connected Ukraine, Trump support for Putin to what would happen to Poland next, if Trump's plan to negotiate or gift parts of Ukraine, Poland would be next.

There are tens upon thousands of Polish Americans in Philadelphia, in parts of Pennsylvania, in Wisconsin, these are key constituencies that she's figured out how to connect with on an issue very key to them.

BURNETT: What do you say, Erin?

PERRINE: I think that that was probably one of the missed opportunities by Trump there, especially on the geopolitical front, because when it comes to the war in Ukraine, it was very clear that Donald Trump put on very aggressive sanctions against Russia, against the Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

And when Biden capitulated to Putin on the pipeline, we saw that they were able to circumvent Ukraine and said natural gas to Germany. So they didn't need him anymore. They could get, like there is a winning geopolitical argument there for Donald Trump that he stopped Russia from invading Ukraine, that didn't happen, that did not happen under Donald Trump. It did under Joe Biden. He missed the opportunity to make that argument right there.

BROWN: All right. Everyone stick around. More to discuss today and extremely rare sit-down with one of the nation's most important decision-makers. CNN goes one-on-one with Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson.

But, first, I have two congressmen on opposite sides of the aisle standing by who swear to ensure a peaceful transition of power. Why they needed to make that promise, and how worried they really are about a repeat January 6. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:16:52]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: You don't have an honest voting system. If I ran with an honest vote counter in California, I would win California.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: That was Trump in California today, again, pushing the lie that the country's elections aren't fair to him. A reminder, he lost the 2020 election despite his claims.

Reaction now from Republican Congressman Mike Lawler and Democratic Congressman Jared Moskowitz.

Great to see you both.

You both signed this letter along with 30 other House members promising to make a peaceful transfer of power happen after this year election, quote, after this election, America will have the rule of the mob at least the commonsense majority stands up. So I want to start with there.

I want to get to the fact gentleman that there are still concerns what could happen after the election.

I want to start with you, Congressman Lawler, and get your reaction to what GOP Senator Markwayne Mullin told me yesterday on this show. Back in 2021, he was in the House, may vote against certifying the election results. And I asked him about that yesterday.

Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: If Trump loses in every state certifies as the results of their election, will you accept a peaceful transfer of power?

SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R-OK): You know, it's hard to say what you're going to do, what you're not. It doesn't matter if the Republicans win or the Democrats win. Both parties are probably going to cry foul.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: What is your reaction to that? And would you encourage your fellow Republican across the aisle and others to sign onto this letter?

REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): Look, obviously, this is a letter that I was proud to sign on to and support. The peaceful transfer of power is paramount to our government. It's what sets the United States apart from many countries around the globe. And I think for me, I leave it up to the voters. The voters will decide the outcome of this election. There is so much

at stake from the affordability crisis plaguing our country, to the crisis at our southern border, to the international crises that we're dealing with. But ultimately, it's a decision that the voters will make. And it's our job as members of Congress to accept that, and to certify the results of the election.

And so, I absolutely commit to doing that. I think what happened on January 6, 2021 was wrong. It never should have happened.

Joe Biden won the election. The election should have been certified.

In the same way that in 2017, you know, when people like Jamie Raskin voted against certification, it was wrong. We should be leaving it up to the voters to decide the outcome of our elections at the ballot box. And so, I am fully committed to doing that and ensuring the peaceful transfer of power regardless of who wins on November 5th.

Just to follow up with you, and again, as I spoke to the senator yesterday, it is a false equivalence looking at what happened in 2020 years past when you look at the overall picture of President Trump, empower saying the election was stolen, trying to get his own vice president to not certify the results, accompanied with, you know, members of Congress, doing his bidding, going against the election results.

[16:20:11]

And so, I wonder when you have those who did that in 2020 voting against the results, not committing to a peaceful transfer of power, even this upcoming election. What do you say to that? I mean, how concerned are you, Congressman Lawler, about that, about members of your own party who won't commit to it. And I'll get to you next, Representative Moskowitz.

LAWLER: Look -- look, anytime we have elections. People have every right to go to court, raised concerns, raised issues, but once the court adjudicates those concerns and the election is certified, you have to accept the results. And I think for all of my colleagues, regardless of their belief for who they support, the reality is for our system of government to work, you have to accept the will of the people and you -- and you have to move forward and allow our government to function.

And that's why, again, I've been very clear on this. Joe Biden won in 2020, and what happened on January 6 was wrong. It should not happen again.

If the American people decide to support Donald Trump I will certify the elections. If they decide to support Kamala Harris, I will certify the election. And I think all of us have a responsibility as elected officials to uphold that -- the rule of law and our election results.

BROWN: Congressman Moskowitz, what if Trump wins? Will all the Democrats support the election results? REP. JARED MOSKOWITZ (D-FL): No, thank you. Thank you for talking about this and I was happy to sign the letter as well with my colleague, Congressman Lawler, and many others.

And the answer is yes. If the 50 states, which is what the question was to Senator -- to the senator -- if the 50 states certify the election, will you vote for it? The answer for me is yes.

And the answer for him should have been yes, but instead he chose weakness. And what I mean by that is he's just playing around with it, right? Because that's the partisan thing to do, right?

It -- right now is the time for courage, when members should say if the 50 states certify the election, we're nearly there for process. We're not there to put our some on the scale for every Democrat. If the 50 states certify the election should vote if its Donald Trump and every Republican, if certifying the election of the 50 states do it, should vote if it's Kamala Harris. This idea that, all of a sudden, we're not going to vote to certify the election is ridiculous. And so, that's why this letter I think was important.

It takes no courage to do what Markwayne Mullin said on that program. You know, doing the bipartisan thing, doing the thing for the country, you know, that's the thing right now that takes courage in politics. He's just -- he's just saying what a small group of people want to hear.

BROWN: I'm wondering how many rejections are you getting. Are you going to other members of Congress? Are you going to people like Senator Mullin and asking him to sign on to this letter. Are you getting rejections, Congressman Lawler?

MOSKOWITZ: I don't have to ask him to sign on the new letter. I don't have to ask him to sign the letter. We heard his opinion on television, right? In television is, well, maybe, if, but that, you know, who knows is it going to be on a Tuesday or Thursday? I mean, what did I have for breakfast?

I mean, there was all sorts of caveats. The question was simple. If all 50 states certified their election, will you vote for it? Right? And so at that point the answer is yes.

Look, I agree with Congressman Lawler, Democrats shouldn't do this either, right? I'm not -- I'm voting against Donald Trump. I don't want Donald Trump to be president. But if the states certify that and he wins, then my job is there to hold up democracy.

My job is not to inject partisan politics and go against the will of the voters and go against the will of the 50 states that certified it, and no campaign should be advocating by the way, like they did in 2020 for an alternative slew of voter, of electors, right?

This is just totally dangerous and it's going to take Democrats calling out. Democrats and Republicans calling out Republicans to make sure that we don't go down this dangerous path. BROWN: Congressman Lawler, very quickly. I just want to ask and I

want to hear what you have to say, but does it concern you that Donald Trump continues the same playbook was saying this upcoming election will be rigged if he loses?

LAWLER: So, first, I can't speak to which members signed, refused to sign. This was borne out of the problem solvers caucus of proud member of, and we have worked in a bipartisan to show bipartisan support for certifying the election and showing up on January 20th, 2025, for the inauguration, whoever wins.

[16:25:01]

With respect to the former president's continued comments, look, my advice is focus on future. The American people are dealing with significant challenges, the cost of living, the cost of groceries, energy, housing has gone up exponentially under Kamala Harris and Joe Biden, a crisis at our southern border, over 10 million migrants have come into the U.S., most of them illegally, 90 percent released into the country. Municipalities like New York City, buckling under the weight of it, spending billions of dollars to provide free housing, clothing, health care, education.

Eric Adams saying it's destroying the city, and then one international crises after the next. That's what the American people want the election to be about, not about past grievances, not about what happened in 2020, but to about what the candidates are going to do to address the challenges facing the country now.

That is what I am focused. It's why I've been successful twice in two to one Democratic districts, ones for the assembly, once for Congress because I talked to the -- my constituents about the issues that matter regardless of their party. And I think that's what looking for. They want people to solve the problems facing them.

BROWN: All right, Democratic Congressman Jared Moskowitz and Republican Congressman Mike Lawler, really important conversation from both of you and I appreciate you coming on the show, and discussing it together.

LAWLER: Thank you.

MOSKOWITZ: Thank you.

BROWN: Up next, a rare interview with Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson. What she told CNN today about the January 6 case in front of the court earlier this year, and her concerns that the court is seen as too political.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:30:35]

BROWN: In our law and justice lead, a one-on-one interview with the newest member of the U.S. Supreme Court, Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson. CNN's Abby Phillip sat down with her today and asked about the high

profile issue the court face this year involving January 6 rioters. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: Also notable when you side with the conservatives and you've done so just slightly more than your colleagues, Justice Elena Kagan or Justice Sotomayor? Most recently in this Fischer versus United States case, that's the January 6 prosecution case. You agreed with the majority that the Justice Department did improperly use its obstruction statute.

The severity of what happened on that day is something that you wrote about in your book. Was that a hard decision for you to make?

JUSTICE KETANJI BROWN JACKSON, U.S. SUPREME COURT: I wouldn't say it was a hard decision. And this is an example I think of the difference between law and politics I ruled in that case consistent with what I believe the law required given the statute at issue, the context in which it was enacted, the text of the statute, and its purposes. And that's the way that I look at statutory interpretation, regardless of, you know, what the politics might say about the situation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Ad Abby Phillip joins us now.

I can't wait to watch this full interview, Abby. What else did you ask Justice Jackson today?

PHILLIP: Yeah, Pamela, a lot of ground covered in this interview and also in her book, which is the reason why Justice Jackson, the newest justice on the court, is really out here talking to the public about her life, but also about her jurisprudence. And when we talked about that issue, she has really come out very forcefully as the newest voice on the court, but she asks the most questions. She writes a number of either concurring opinions or dissenting opinions on her own to make it clear exactly how she feels about the decisions that the court is making.

But I did ask her about how the court is perceived by the public, which is really the issue that is kind of overshadowing the Supreme Court right now, and she addressed it directly at this perception that if politics infects the court, that could potentially erode public confidence, listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: You have concerns about that perception that the public might think that differences are aligning so closely with political differences.

BROWN: So you mentioned Justice Breyer, who was one of my mentors, and this is something that he has talked about a lot and that I think it is a concern for the court as an institution because public confidence is basically all we have. You know, the court does not have the power of the purse. It does not have an army. It can't make people enforce or follow its opinions.

And so it's really important for maintenance of the rule of law that people believe in the justices, in their rulings especially in these very contentious cases. So you asked me, do I have a concern? Yes. But as a sort of institutional level, the entire court is concerned about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: She is keenly aware, of course, that this issue is not going away anytime soon of the three justices in the minority, I think that she has in this very conservative court been more on the side of holding onto precedent, unlike some of her colleagues.

But she says all of that, these are legal disagreements, these are not political disagreements no matter how they might look to the American public who observes this court from a layman's perspective and sees the conservative justices voting one way, the liberals voting another way, Pamela.

BROWN: So interesting to hear her perspective on that, Abby Phillip. Thank you so much.

And be sure to catch Abby's full interview with Justice Jackson tonight at 10:00 Eastern, right here on CNN.

[16:35:01]

Well, Pope Francis is weighing in on the upcoming presidential election, why he says it's a choice between, quote, the lesser of two evils.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Our faith lead meets our politics lead for this one. Today, Pope Francis was asked about how he thought Catholic voters should choose between Trump and Harris and the pope said the choice was between the lesser of two evils noting Trump's stance on migrants and Harris's position on abortion access.

We are back with our panel and CNN's Tom Foreman.

Really fascinating to hear the pope weigh in on this, in this way. Help us understand the significance of the Catholic pope weighing in on the 2024 election like this.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The significance is that earlier this year, just under half of Catholics in Pew Research poll said that they would support Donald Trump. Now, just over 50 percent of Catholics say they will support him.

This is food for thought for them. This is something that is saying to them, you cannot just cast your vote in the pope's eyes on the abortion issue. You must see the migrant issue through the same lens of Christianity and if you want to lock migrants out, if you want to treat migrants badly in his eyes, that's as big as sin as supporting abortion rights.

BROWN: I want to play something Donald Trump said today on that note about immigrants.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I can say this. We will deportations from Springfield, Ohio, large deportations. We're going to get these people out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And it's worth noting that in 2016, the pope had singled out Trump for his comments about, you know, he should be building bridges, not walls. Trump continues to make comments like that and you have to wonder how the pope's comments will land among these American Catholics. Also a little bit more about that.

FOREMAN: Well, this is not what it was the time before. Obviously, Joe Biden, a very devout Catholic, it was a different atmosphere in a way. But the truth is, as I said, he's really given them food for thought. He said this cannot be in terms of your faith as simple as saying this is a pro-choice, pro-life vote, you have to think beyond that.

Will that sway anyone? While everything in this race, who knows?

ZELENY: I mean American Catholic voters are not a monolith. The doctrine is the same, but the Catholic voters are monolith. I mean, it is based on region, it's based on age, it's based on just other beliefs.

So I think the significance here, it's really one more thing in a pattern of this pope who has seen us as much a more liberal than some would like here. And somebody seen as exactly right, like the Jesuits were talking about earlier.

But the -- equating the immigrant language with the -- with the abortion issue is quite interesting, and it's something we don't hear the church here talk about a lot like executions and the death penalty, we don't hear that with the same weight as the abortion issue.

Of course, the numbers are different, but I think it is very interesting. It'll be interesting to see. I'm not sure the sways the vote at all, in big Catholic states like Wisconsin, like Pennsylvania, but it certainly is food for thought.

BROWN: Go ahead.

HAQ: This pope has thumbed his nose in somewhat diplomatic ways that Donald Trump before the encyclical he gave him when Trump came to visit was entirely about environmental stewardship and climate change, right? The idea that need to be protecting the earth, this to somebody who was effectively has been -- had been climate denier. He's also been rather generous given the church's history when it comes to tolerance of gay and lesbian individuals as well.

So in that sense, the Catholics who wished for a more conservative camp outlets, Catholic pope may not be swayed by this, but he certainly does speak to that broader sense of Christianity, social justice, and I think just faith-based social justice that the least among us, taking care of those, that is an immediate referenced to refugees and immigrants.

BROWN: Erin, you went to a Catholic school, right?

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: One of those. So I'd love your perspective on this and put him, as Jeff said, putting abortion and immigration on the same level.

PERRINE: Yeah. I think for a lot of people they need to remember that the pope is a spiritual leader and not necessarily a political adviser. And what he's trying to tell Catholics here today, especially American Catholics, is when it comes to issues, its not to your point, Jeff, just about being pro-life or about the migrant issue, its about people writ large, whether its about the death penalty or the sanctity of life, how we are protecting each other as a larger people in which of those we need to weigh them all in totality and not one more than the other.

And it is very, very on brand for this pope to your point because he is Jesuit, that is a more socially justice focus portion of the Catholic Church than it is the traditional portion. And especially being Argentinian that tends to lean that combined together, you put that out there you're going to see more socially justice focused pushes from this pope than you would see from others.

BROWN: Right. It is worth noting, he didn't tell her can Catholics how to vote. He said, use your conscience.

FOREMAN: But it sits very much into that trope of some people saying, you know, some argue, you can't say you're pro-life if you don't care about the lives when they're here, when those people are human beings and living on the planet. If you don't care about them, you're not pro-life.

PERRINE: Yeah, the pope is talking in totality, every life, all the time, womb to tomb, yeah.

BROWN: That's a smart point.

All right, thank you all. I really appreciate it.

Well, comedian Roy Wood Jr. has a new show debuting on CNN this weekend. What he says you should keep in mind on the sharp takes tomorrow night.

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[16:48:32]

BROWN: There is a funny new show starting tomorrow on CNN sure to make you laugh.

Jake Tapper reported this look ahead and trust me, you want to watch.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Comedian and Emmy nominee Roy Wood Jr. will host, hit the anticipated us the acclaimed comedy series, "Have I Got News For You?" The show premieres on Saturday, September 14, 9:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN. And will serve up smart, silly, edgy takes on news of the week.

You might be familiar with Wood, of course, from his time on "The Daily Show" when he hosted the White House correspondents dinner last year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROY WOOD JR., COMEDIAN: Mr. President, I think you left some of your classified documents up here. Don't get them to 'em. I put them in a safe place. You don't know where to keep 'em.

TRUMP: I have a Trump-hating judge with the Trump-hating wife and family.

WOOD: Who you know go to trial and (EXPLETIVE DELETED) talk about the judge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Here to discuss the upcoming show and the never ending craziness of this new cycle is Roy Wood, Jr.

Roy, so good to see you.

I should note --

WOOD: Yeah.

TAPPER: -- your dad was a journalist. He was a radio pioneer, co- founder of the National Black Network.

So, you're a trained journalist as well, but you decided to go into a life of comedy instead.

WOOD: Yeah.

TAPPER: How do you think the show is going to intersect these two worlds?

WOOD: I think it's very easy. Most news is worthy of laughing at, Jake.

[16:50:01] Therefore, because I have a degree in broadcast, shout out to Florida A&M, and all I did was stand up because I was too busy doing stand-up to learn broadcast, I think this is the perfect time and place to put those two things together.

I just want to make sure people understand about the show is that we are not out to be as regal. This is a Saturday night showdown. We come in on Saturday night and 9:00 after Bill Maher, we are here to kick back and crack jokes. We leave in the analysis to people like you, people like Abby Phillip, people like Laura Coates.

TAPPER: All right.

WOOD: We just got the jokes.

TAPPER: Fair enough.

You have had a lot of success bringing comedy into the political discourse over the last few years, especially do you ever find it difficult to do given the stakes, given how people are about the stakes, given the heightened political rhetoric we've seen?

WOOD: No, I think at the end of the day, people have to laugh. I think what we have right now, I don't think we have backlash to comedy. I've just think that people have more avenues to say what they do and don't like. That's out there in the world.

You know, if this was 20, 30 years ago, if you didn't like a joke, you have to write a letter to a newspaper and pray that they printed it. Now, you can just go on Twitter or TikTok or whatever and just speak your voice. And people can be the echo with or disagree with you.

But I think the need for laughter does not change simply because there are people that are not in the mood for certain jokes.

TAPPER: Michael Ian Black and Amber Ruffin are set to be the new team captains on the new show. What exactly does that mean team captains? What can we expect to see from them?

WOOD: I think that they are the ones that get to carry a lot of the craziness because the show for the people who don't know, it's kind of a quasi-game show will get kind of sort of quiz in the panelists on things that happened this week.

And it'd give you something as wild to say, the debate that happened earlier this week, or it could be anything random and silly.

So, Michael and Amber, their jobs are to provide some of the comedy and then we have a couple of guests that come on every week. I'm hoping that we can get some elected officials. I think that's part of what made the U.K. show so beautiful, is that sitting elected officials were willing to come on television and seem a little normal and crack a joke.

New York City Mayor Eric Adams, I'm talking to you. Please come on the show. Ted Cruz, I'm talking to you. Please come on the show.

Pete Buttigieg, please come on.

Doug Emhoff, Come on, Doug.

TAPPER: What do you -- what are you most looking forward to with the show?

WOOD: I'm looking forward to being able to provide a little bit of levity in what has been a very, very crazy election year. And we're going to rock it that way past the election into deeper into November. And to me, it's just an opportunity. I'm excited, man. I'm excited to be able to just talk silly about the news without having to all these touch on the gravity, that's the thing that always had a love-hate about during my time with the daily show is that the things were talking about are serious and at the daily show, we have to honor that because these issues are serious.

But y'all get to handle that before us and we get to do it on Saturday night, crack a joke and then go home and have a slice of pizza.

TAPPER: I'm looking forward to it a lot, thank you so much.

The show, "Have I Got News For You" premieres Saturday, September 14th at 9:00 p.m. Eastern only on CNN. Thank you. Roy.

WOOD: Thanks, Jake.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: It's like a lot of fun.

Well, a critically important meeting is underway right now at the White House will take you there, live in just moments.

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[16:57:35]

BROWN: Breaking news: President Biden is meeting right now with British Prime Minister Keir Starmer at the White House. As you see, the NATO allies face and incredibly consequential decision about Ukraine.

Let's get right to CNN's MJ Lee at the White House. What is the latest, MJ?

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Pam, this is a meeting that the prime minister's office requested with President Biden as he has gotten more settled in to his new job, wanting more one-on-one time with the president, particularly ahead of the time that we expect them to spend more together at UNGA in New York City later this month, as the president just told reporters, he said, they are expecting to discuss a number of wide ranging issues on Ukraine, the Middle East, the Indo-Pacific. But as you know, it is the war in Ukraine, specifically the question

of the use of long-range missiles and has gotten so much attention, you know, President Biden earlier this week was asked about that and he ticked off some fresh speculation when he told reporters were working that out right now. But immediately after you saw U.S. officials scrambling to clarify that there is no change in U.S. policy that is coming, at least anytime soon.

But there is that separate question of whether the president might offer a bit of a thumbs up when it comes to long range missiles that are provided by other countries, including of course, those that are provided by the U.K. time for referred to as Storm Shadows.

Now, the reason that this question has such big ramifications when it comes to the war in Ukraine, is in part because Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, has said that if they were to be used in that way, to be launched deeper into Russian territory. He would see this as being akin to NATO nations going to war with Russia.

Now, I should know we are getting some of these early images of that spray, the president was asked about that threat from Vladimir Putin. And this is what he said. He said, quote, I don't think much about Vladimir Putin -- Pam.

BROWN: All right. MJ Lee, thank you for bringing us the latest there on this high-stakes meeting. Much appreciated.

Then big interviews Sunday on "STATE OF THE UNION". Look for Trump's running mate, Senator J.D. Vance. Plus, Democratic Governor Josh Shapiro from, of course, the key battleground of Pennsylvania. That is Sunday morning at 9:00 Eastern, and again at noon here on CNN.

And then on Sunday night, Donie O'Sullivan meets former Bernie brothers whose disillusionment with politics lead them to embrace far right extremism. It is a new episode of "THE WHOLE STORY WITH ANDERSON COOPER" Sunday night at 8:00 Eastern on CNN.

Or you could follow me on X and Instagram @PamelaBrownCNN, follow the show on X @TheLeadCNN. And if you ever miss an episode of THE LEAD, listen to the show wherever you get your podcasts.

The news continues now on CNN with Wolf Blitzer and "THE SITUATION ROOM".

Have a great weekend, everyone.