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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Harris & Trump In Swing States With Election Day 21 Days Away; Biden Admin Suggests U.S. Aide To Israel In Jeopardy Over Gaza Crisis; Harris & Trump Increasingly Target Podcast To Reach Voters; Giant Panda Pair Arrive At National Zoo In Washington, D.C. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired October 15, 2024 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:12]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: So, because of unforeseen timing issue, this is all we can show you. It's a giant pumpkin that swallows the police officer completely out of context video. We're out of time.

THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER starts right now.

Go find the information about this online. I promise. It's delirious.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: CNN.com.

(MUSIC)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: America, 21 days to go. Can you believe that? Although early voting already starting.

THE LEAD starts right now.

From Putin to January 6 international trade wars, the wide-ranging interview today with Donald Trump revealing his headspace with just three weeks left in this campaign.

Plus, Vice President Kamala Harris in battleground Michigan. Her big interview today with a radio host who once criticized her and called Democrats cowards.

And breaking records in Georgia. Folks out in droves to cast their early vote. But what about all those election rule changes? There's also a huge ruling today -- could they delay the count? It may have some expert opinions straight ahead.

(MUSIC)

BROWN: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Pamela Brown, in for Jake Tapper.

And we start with our 2024 lead. Exactly three weeks before Election Day, both Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump are in two critical battleground states.

Harris is in Detroit, Michigan. She is just moments away from a big interview there in a town hall-style talk with radio host Charlamagne Tha God. Harris is trying to shore up support among Black voters, especially men.

Meanwhile, Trump is on his way to battleground Georgia, where early voting started today. He's going to take a town hall with an all- female audience in the next hour and then hold another campaign event this evening.

But the former president has already made a lot of headlines today, as he took questions at the Economic Club of Chicago. And the topics ranged from the economy to global affairs. Trump is even asked which state he thinks will decide the November election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So they say Pennsylvania, I would say most. I think we're doing very well there. I think you look at Michigan, too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: CNN's Kristen Holmes is in Atlanta.

So let's talk about that Trump interview. It was wide ranging and revealing. What stood out to you, Kristen?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, first of all, just the conversation on the economy itself, which at times grew contentious, was incredibly interesting, given the fact that Donald Trump was actually pushed on some of the economic proposals for the first time. We have tried to ask him these questions at various press conferences about his tariff plan. He has usually ignored those questions or he's having friendly interviews in which he doesn't answer questions about the tariffs, and just a reminder, he has called for massive tariffs to the point where economists say would actually hurt the economy and cause more inflation.

Today was the first time he was actually pushed on that. Now, of course, it's Donald Trump. So he was able to evade a lot of these questions or answered in broad terms, but having him actually try to be accountable for those tariffs. He mostly just said, you're wrong. They're wrong.

But again, it was the first time he had been pushed on it. Now the other thing that was interesting saying and not surprising as we've heard it before, is he refused to commit to accepting the election results in 2024 and to a peaceful transfer of power. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Well, you had a peaceful transfer of power. We had a term peacefully and patriotically, these were people. If you think an election is crooked and I do 100 percent, if you think the day it comes when you can't protest, you take a look at the Democrats, they protested 2016. There's still protesting it. Nobody talks about them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: He also at some point referred to January 6 as a day of peace and love. And as we know, it was obviously not a peaceful transfer of power last time around.

Now, the other thing he was asked that is the first time we've seen a since that reporting that he had had conversations, multiple of them with Russian President Vladimir Putin, since leaving office. Here's what he said about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MODERATOR: Can you say yes or no, whether you have talked to Vladimir Putin since you stop being president?

TRUMP: Well, I don't comment on that, but I will tell you that if I did, it's a smart thing. If I'm friendly with people, if you have a relationship with people, that's a good thing, not a bad thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: So, obviously, not answering that question there, Pamela, but we know from multiple public speeches that Donald Trump has made that he often praises Putin and says that if he was back in the White House, he would solve the Ukrainian war on day one by negotiating, but never really gives any answers on what that negotiation would look like -- Pamela.

BROWN: Yeah, it's notable because in the past, he had said that actually wasn't true. He didn't quite say that today. I'm going to be asking John Bolton, the president's former national security advisor about that, Trump's former national security.

[16:05:06]

Kristen Holmes, thank you so much.

And here now is Republican former lieutenant governor of Georgia, Geoff Duncan, and GOP strategist, Shermichael Singleton.

All right. Shermichael, I want to go first to what we heard from Kristen, and that sound she played from the former president, saying that there was a peaceful transfer of power despite the violence that happened on January 6, and he conveniently glossed over.

What is your reaction when you hear that?

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, look, I think the vast majority of Americans disagree. Trump's supporters are going to agree with the president. I was just talking to some folks couple of days ago about this very issue, Pamela. And it is very interesting to me how those who are ardent supporters of the president remember that particular moment. Many of them believed that individuals there were justified in protesting what they believe was some type of malfeasance. But I think the vast majority of Americans would disagree with that. I

also think it's why the campaign has tried to be very careful in positioning the former president in interviews where he's asked that question. Because we've seen from focus groups and polls that the president -- former president rather doesn't do particularly well on this issue. I think Kamala Harris is ahead by 25 plus points as it pertains to protecting democracy.

So it's a vulnerability.

BROWN: All right. Let's talk a little bit more about that vulnerability, Geoff, because your state was at the center of Trumps efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Here again, is the moment that he tried to pressure the Georgia secretary of state.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TRUMP: So, look, all I want to do is this -- I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BROWN: Are you concerned at all that Georgia election officials can face that kind of pressure again from the former president. And do you think they're ready for it?

GEOFF DUNCAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, twofold, one, I'm not worried about Brad Raffensperger and his entire team and our county- wide election officials who continue to do an amazing job. There's a reason why we're breaking records as Gabe Sterling announced today, because people trust the voting systems in Georgia, they trust the election process in Georgia, and they should.

We've been the most scrutinized state over the last four years of any state. And I would put our election process up against any. But to your point about do I worry that Donald Trump is going to try to spin this narrative into being some sort of conspiracy theory-laden post- election? Yeah, absolutely.

He's a liar. He's a liar by nature. And the only person who hasn't walked in, in a Georgia voting poll, and this whole conversation is Donald Trump. He's never set foot in one, but yet because he didn't win, because he's such a shallow human being, he's willing to blow up entire lives and an entire election process, all to try to stay in power.

And for me, I think that's this narrative where people -- nobody believes, even MAGA supporters and overwhelming majority don't believe this lies. They're just willing to give him a hall pass. And to me, that's un-American.

BROWN: Just to follow up with you, as you noted, early voting started in Georgia today. The numbers are huge.

This week, a judge ruled the Georgia must certify results by the official deadline, even if there are legal challenges. And I spoke with Gabe Sterling from Georgia secretary state's office. A lot of us remember him from 2020. Here's what he said the ruling means for voters in the state.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GABE STERLING, CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER, GEORGE SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICE: The main thing is we're going to have, every county in the state will be certified by November 12th at 5:00 p.m. is the law calls for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Do you share his confidence, Lieutenant Governor?

DUNCAN: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we've got to remove as many seeds of doubt that Donald Trump and his cast of cohorts has planted, right, including the state elections board and all of the -- all of the pettiness that they've tried to -- they've tried to ankle bite on issues, solutions in search of a problem.

But yes, I do believe -- look, an overwhelming majority of Georgians and these election officials go to work and do their job extremely well. And I'm grateful to see that the starting to come back together. But we've got to be careful and we've got to be vigilant that these folks, on the other side of this equation, the MAGA crowd, will do and say anything possible to win, even if it's criminal, and we've seen that play out state over state.

BROWN: Shermichael, what do you say to that and that concern? Because when you look at this recent "Wall Street Journal" poll for the state of the race in Georgia, chose a razor-thin race within the margin of error? What do you say to what we just heard from lieutenant governor?

SINGLETON: I mean, look, I've most part agree with Geoff, like everybody is entitled to one vote, show up with your ID. I lived in Georgia, went to college here, have voted I think my first presidential race was in Georgia for former President Barack Obama.

And I think its incumbent upon the states to be as quickly as they possibly can to count those votes so that people aren't waiting, the more you prolong this -- this process, Pamela, it does increase doubt not only would folks who may have voted for the former president, but there also a lot of people of color who've stand for hours in line, who also want to make sure that their votes are fairly counted.

[16:10:07]

And so I think this is a good direction and decision by the state of Georgia, and I would hope that many other states across the country particularly those battleground states, are doing something similar.

BROWN: All right, thank you so much.

Shermichael, Geoff, we appreciate it. We have more to discuss. And just ahead, a reminder of what Vice President Kamala Harris is

walking into as she gets ready for this interview next hour with radio host Charlamagne Tha God.

Plus, CNN reporting inside China like you have never seen before. See what it took to get up close with two pandas before they were put on a plane and sent right here to the United States.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD, CO-HOST, "THE BREAKFAST CLUB": Oh, definitely. A lot of main character energy on the Democratic ticket. I mean, that's always been my frustration, you know, from the beginning, right, because we know who the vice president is, we know who Kamala Harris is like. She has super main character energy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, can Vice President Kamala Harris live up to that main character energy described there by Charlemagne Tha God?

[16:15:07]

Harris will sit down with a podcaster and advocate in just a few minutes for a radio town hall interview from the crucial battleground state of Michigan.

Let's bring in CNN's Eva McKend.

So, Eva, you were in Detroit ahead of this Harris event. What's the campaigns strategy here?

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pam, part of her pitch is grounded in her support for entrepreneurs, talking about these forgivable loans, talking about legalizing marijuana and making sure that Black entrepreneurs actually have access to the industry. She also talks about crypto currency as well.

So there's an acknowledgment that these policies would resonate with Black men, but also more Americans broadly. And what we hear from the vice president in Democratic surrogates is, listen, the former president may be appealing to some Black men, a marginal faction of Black men, though that margin could be consequential in an election based on this machismo. Ultimately, it is her that is going to deliver policies that most resonate and speak to those communities.

I'm also curious to see how she talks about immigration tonight. It no doubt will come up because it comes up on the Breakfast Club on Charlamagne's show, and I don't know how satisfying it is going to be for her to sort of repeat that same sort of rehearsed response about the former president squashing the bipartisan border enforcement bill. I think that she's going to have to grapple with some of the misinformation that we hear among some Black voters about immigrants ration about services that undocumented immigrants are getting. And I've asked the campaign about this as well.

So curious to see how much this moves the needle tonight, but we he know that the campaign is very focused on Black men and making her case to them.

BROWN: All right. Stay with us. We're going to bring in the rest of the panel.

Paul Begala, I want to kick it off with you well, here to just further discuss all of this. There is this latest poll from "The New York Times", and it finds that Harris has the support of 63 percent of black voters overall and 53 percent of Black male voters.

But if you compare that to exit polls from the last two elections, Paul, Democrats have lost double-digit support among both groups.

What do you make of this? Why do you think that is?

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, a slight correction, it's her margin that is 68, not her vote. Her vote in "The New York Times"/Siena College poll among black folks is 78 percent support.

BROWN: Thank you for that.

BEGALA: Now that's still not cry from the 90 percent. The 90 percent is where she needs to be. That's where Joe Biden was. Hillary Clinton was at 92.

Trump in that same poll is at 15, which is actually not bad for Republican, honestly. But here's the problem: compared to what though? On June 25th, I went back and looked at the polling before Joe Biden got out of the race, Trump was at 25.

So it's actually Mr. Trump who's lost half of his black support. The Harris campaign has work to do. There's no doubt about it. So it's a great idea to go on "The Breakfast Club" or have Charlamagne Tha God host your town hall meeting. The guy from "The Breakfast Club" is just terrific. I think it's a great idea.

You have to earn those votes. Democrats are often accused, I think rightly of taking black voters for granted. And I don't think the Harris campaign is doing that.

I've talked to folks running that campaign. They're keeping very hard in that community. The truth is, it's actually Trump who's faded in the Black vote, and Harris who's gaining.

BROWN: Shermichael, what do you have to say to that?

SINGLETON: Look, I mean, Paul raised a fair point, at least in terms of the numbers. The former president did see his numbers decrease once Vice President Harris got into the race. I'm not actually surprised by that. I mean, she had a call with thousands of Black men, Black men for Harris.

I think a more consequential concern, Pamela, these one that I would have if I were on the Harris campaign would be what drop-off do we see of Black men as Bakari Sellers likes to say, who may sit on the couch. I think that is perhaps a greater concern for the Harris-Walz campaign, than perhaps maybe the 15 percent point that the former president may get, which is an increase is certainly should not be ignored.

I mean, I think Republicans it may have an opportunity in the long run to appeal to not only black men, but Hispanic men, as well as we have seen, men writ large over the past eight years now so too slowly move away from the Democratic Party. The Republican Party, I think has to do a little bit more.

But as it pertains to Black men, I think the vice president has a lot of work to do, releasing a plan, I read through it. I thought there were some good points in there. I don't really view some of the issues that she's attempting to focus on through a partisan or ideological lens. A lot of black men do face and experience a lot of the things she's laid out.

The question is, is it enough this late in the game? We'll have to see.

BROWN: Yeah, we'll have to see. There's clearly a gender divide though in terms of more women supporting Harris, more men supporting Trump.

And now there's reporting from "Reuters" today that Harris is considering sitting down with Joe Rogan, a popular podcaster with a huge audience, that skews male, as part of this effort to close the gender gap in the race.

[16:20:01]

What do you make about -- what do you make of that, Paul?

BEGALA: Well, I'm a lifelong hunter live Shermichael is. We're both Texans, and it kind of comes to the territory.

And we have a phrase in hunting community, you got to hunt with the ducks are at. So that's why she reaches out Charlamagne Tha God. That's why she goes on Howard Stern. That's why she he goes on "The View". That's why she goes on "The Colbert Report". And she goes on "60 Minutes".

So, yeah, I think this is like Jesus in the Gospel of Matthew 18th chapter 20th verse, wherever two or more gathered, there too shall I be. That's what you got to be like when you're running for president.

BROWN: Well, Eva, to bring you in on this, what are you hearing from your sources about this potential for this sit-down with Joe Rogan and the thinking behind it.

MCKEND: Well, Pam, now that it's out there, I'm hearing from sources that it will be hard to backtrack, but look, this tracks with everything that we have seen from the campaign thus far, them going in untraditional spaces, non-traditional media to meet as many voters as possible, to meet voters that might not necessarily be all that inclined to be tuning into politics. They want to reach those voters anyway.

BROWN: But it's interesting because a Joe Rogan interview would be several hours long. I mean, that that is not without risk. So that's worth noting too.

So we'll see if it happens. It is under consideration, and as you said, tough to backtrack now that it's been reported on.

Thank you all so much.

And this programming note, CNN will hold a special town hall with Vice President Kamala Harris next Wednesday, October 23rd.

We're also following a major development between the U.S. and Israel today, a list of demands from the Biden administration calling on Prime Minister Netanyahu to change his ways with Gaza. How Israel is responding, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:26:08]

BROWN: In our world lead, the Biden administration says Israel has 30 days to improve the dire humanitarian situation in Gaza or risk the flow future U.S. military aid to Israel. Citing a list of demands and a letter to their Israeli counterparts, Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin say, in part, Israel must get more aid through all of Gaza's major border crossings, open another crossing, and institute humanitarian pauses in the fighting.

Lets get right to CNN's Jeremy Diamond is Tel Aviv.

Jeremy, how is Israel responding to this letter?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Israeli government hasn't officially responded to this letter. What we have seen so far is COGAT, the Israeli agency in charge of allowing the flow of aid into Gaza, putting out a series of tweets over the course of last two days since this letter was sent, showing pictures of humanitarian aid getting into Gaza saying that yesterday, 104 trucks made it in.

That's just not going to cut it in terms of what the United States is looking for here, which is really fundamental change in terms of the way that Israel approaches the entry in the facilitation of aid getting into Gaza, the -- what they are demanding in this letter is that Israel improve the flow of aid over the course of the next 30 days.

And they are setting specific benchmarks, 350 trucks per day through all four major crossings. They're calling for Israel to open a fifth crossing into Gaza, asking that they implement humanitarian pauses across Gaza to facilitate the entry of humanitarian aid and also demanding that Israel move that humanitarian zone that's in the coastal area of al Mawasi inland before the winter begins.

And all of this is also coming not only as were seeing concerns about a worsening humanitarian situation in Gaza, but also as human rights experts are increasingly warning of what appears to be the forced displacement of potentially hundreds of thousands of people in northern Gaza.

The Israeli military says does that they are evacuating people from a combat zone, but we are seeing that that area is far wider than where Israeli troops are operating.

BROWN: And we also have the unfolding situation with Iran and Israel deciding how to retaliate against Iran for its massive October 1st missile barrage. What do we know about that?

DIAMOND: Well, there's no question that over the course of the last week, there have been a slew of consultations between the U.S. and Israel, trying to get on the same page about exactly what the scale and scope of this Israeli military response to that barrage of 200 ballistic missiles from Iran actually will be. And there does seemed to be some closening of the position there.

According to a person familiar with the matter, speaking with our colleague, Kevin Liptak, the Israelis have actually told us that they will not strike nuclear or oil facilities, instead, focusing on military targets. That will of course be welcomed to U.S. officials who have been advising against striking those two other targets. The question now is whether or not that will happen.

So far the Israeli government hasn't publicly confirmed that that's their position. But with the arrival of a new sophisticated aerial defense system from the United States, arriving in Israel, we could be getting close to when that response may actually be carried out -- Pam.

BROWN: All right. Thanks so much, Jeremy Diamond.

And joining us now to discuss is former Trump national security advisor John Bolton, who also served as U.S. ambassador to the U.N. during the George W. Bush administration.

Ambassador, I want to start with that reporting we just heard from Jeremy. The Biden administration's letter to Israeli officials on the dire situation in Gaza, if the U.S. does follow through on its threat of limiting military aid if more isn't done on the humanitarian front, how significant would that be for Israel's ability to defend itself?

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: Well, I think it could harm Israel very substantially. I think -- I think the Biden administration is totally misguided in its approach here.

[16:30:01]

The idea that you just let trucks into Gaza to meet some arbitrary limit may mean you can expect them. And anybody who knows what's going on around Gaza knows that Hamas and its allies are doing everything they can to use these humanitarian shipments to ship in more weapons, ammunition, and supplies that Hamas needs.

And further, once the material gets in, for the past year, the reports are unanimous that it is largely taken over by Hamas and that Hamas distributes it to its fighters and those that wants to, and many people, many fellow Gazan citizens, are left in dire straits. So I think the real culprit here remains Hamas and pressuring Israel's good American politics for the administration at the moment, it's bad foreign policy for the United States.

BROWN: But what do you say to those who would argue, look, there is a humanitarian crisis on Gaza, more needs to be done to help tens of thousands have been killed in Gaza and, you know, the -- more should be done before the U.S. continues to give aid. What do you say to that?

BOLTON: I say they completely misunderstood who the criminals are here, Hamas is the criminal element. Hamas has used fellow Gazans as human shields. It manipulates the population to its own advantage. If you wanted to end this tragedy in Gaza, why does it, why -- why doesn't the administration put pressure on Hamas to surrender?

Militarily, Hamas has been decimated, but it hasn't surrendered. You want to bring humanitarian aid and effectively, tell Hamas to give up the struggle.

BROWN: I want to turn to other news were covering as well. Mark Esper, a former defense secretary under Trump, told my colleague Kaitlan Collins that we should take Trumps words, quote, very seriously when he suggested using the military to handle what he called the enemy from within. Those on the left, even naming a Democratic politician.

Do you agree with Secretary Esper?

BOLTON: Absolutely, and I think that this is something that Republicans who are supporting Trump through gritted teeth really, really need to take a close look at here. I think many really don't want to vote for Trump. They wish they had another nominee, but they're prepared to vote for him. And they're rationalizing what Trump says, thinking that it's not going to be as bad as what Trump himself is saying.

Look, if these people are going to vote for Trump, I don't think there's a way to change their mind, but I think they ought to do it with their eyes open. This will be a retribution presidency, and it will not be just against extreme left wingers. It will be against people who are Republicans and conservatives who stood against Trump. And it will be against people in the military like Mark Milley who I think justifiably worries that Trump will call him back to act active duty so he can court-martial.

There's going to be a lot of stress on the system here and wishing it away and saying, look, Trump wants to be successful in his second term, this is just for political purposes, don't understand the man.

BROWN: Very quickly. Do you agree with Mark Milley that Trump is a fascist?

BOLTON: You know, I don't think he's smart enough to have an ideology. I think this is all about Donald Trump and -- but he will do an incredible amount of damage if it were not prepared for it and don't see it coming. As I say, people can vote for Trump if that's -- I'm not going to obviously.

But they need to do it understanding it will be serious problematic here at home and internationally once he gets his hands back on the wheels of power.

BROWN: John Bolton, thank you.

BOLTON: Thank you.

BROWN: And coming up, the podcast approached to 2024. The new opportunities to reach new voters this election year.

Plus, CNN is suiting up for this exclusive, see what it took to seed those pandas up close and China my goodness, before their trip to D.C. today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:38:08]

BROWN: In our politics lead, Donald Trump canceled an interview with CNBC today following his refusal to appear on CBS's "60 Minutes" last week.

Listen to this. There is a new destination. This election for both Vice President Harris and former President Trump, it's going on a podcast.

CNN's Hadas Gold explores what they have said and how it might sway some votes.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEX COOPER, PODCASTER: With all of that said, let's get into it.

HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump have been racing to sit in front of the biggest podcast microphones.

COOPER: Madam Vice President --

HARRIS: Alex.

COOPER: -- welcome to "Call Her Daddy".

HARRIS: It is good to be with you.

GOLD: The newest media stars and their millions of listeners becoming some of the most important campaign stops.

TRUMP: It's going to be great. I'm looking forward to this as all my life.

GOLD: As the media landscape shifts, so are the candidates as they scrambled to target a younger and often hard to reach audience.

TRUMP: He knows you very well. You said, dad, he's big. Yeah, a big one.

THEO VON, PODCASTER: Wow, that's cool.

TRUMP: That's what -- that's where it is nowadays, right?

GOLD: Trump has been flooding podcast zone, focusing on platforms aimed at the right and white men, going on with Theo Von, Nelk Boys, Logan Paul, Barstool Sports, Bussin With the Boys, and many others.

TRUMP: I like doing stuff like this. You know, I like it. I like conversation I don't seem to get myself in much trouble. When she does it, every time she does it, they say she's stupid. She's stupid.

GOLD: Meanwhile, Harris has been more selective, appearing on shows better known for their sex tips and celebrity gossip than news, like "The Shade Room", "All The Smoke", and most recently "Call Her Daddy", where she talked about Trumps past comments an abortion.

HARRIS: Can you imagine he's suggesting that women in their ninth month of pregnancy are electing to have an abortion? Are you kidding? That is -- that is so outrageously inaccurate.

[16:40:03]

GOLD: Conversations on the podcasts have a different approach than the traditional new sit-down, mixing in the lighthearted.

HARRIS: One of my guilty pleasures, especially when I'm on the road are my Doritos.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What flavor?

HARRIS: Nacho, old school. Original, come on.

GOLD: Along with the politics.

TRUMP: We can live with the marijuana. It's got to be a certain age, have to be a certain age to buy. It's got to be done in a very concerted, lawful way.

GOLD: Although with little to no fact checking or follow-up.

TRUMP: We were ripped off by every nation in the world and some of the worst grippers were our so-called allies.

GOLD: Podcast have become a major part of the media diet for many American, with two-thirds of adults under 30 listening in the past year. And even though many don't go to podcasts for their news, they trust what they're hearing. A stunning 87 percent say they expect the information on their

podcasts to be mostly accurate. The candidates are clearly taking this to heart its "Reuters" reporting that Vice President Harris is in talks to sit down with popular and powerful podcaster Joe Rogan.

Trump also announcing earlier his own interview with Joe Rogan is in the works.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And Hadas joins us now.

So who are Harris and Trump trying to win over with these podcasts appearances, Hadas?

GOLD: Well, they're trying to reach very specific audiences because the people who are watching things like cable news, no offense to our own network, any of the other networks, they tend to be sort of baked in voters. They already know who they're going to vote for. They're very informed news consumers.

They're trying to go after people who might not be listening to these podcasts for news. They've been listening to them for entertainment or for other reasons. And they're trying to motivate them to vote because this election will be so much about the margins, about the 10,000 votes here or there. And that's why its really interesting the sea when you look at the demographic breakdown of these audiences for these pockets, I'll give you the example.

Joe Rogan, 80 percent of his audience is mail and they tend to be young males. And that's why both of these candidates are trying to go on Joe Rogan and talked to him and get that audience.

BROWN: All right. Hadas Gold, thank you so much.

Well, three weeks out from Election Day, some of the most high profile Democrats in battleground Michigan sound worried about the race. A reality check from a Michigan native filmmaker, Michael Moore, is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:46:05]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): I don't think people know Kamala Harris yet. I do. I know how great she is. They need to -- you know, they need to feel her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: That earlier today from Michigan Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Dingell sounding a bit of an alarm that time is running out for Vice President Harris to truly connect with voters and her state. It isn't just a race against Trump, it's a race against the clock and making sure those voters actually go vote.

The latest "Wall Street Journal" poll from Michigan shows the vote is deadlock with no clear leader between Harris and Trump.

So can Vice President Harris shift the momentum, win over voters and secure Michigan in just three weeks?

Joining us now to discuss that is Michigan native and filmmaker, Michael Moore.

Great to see you.

So, Trump won Michigan in 2016, lost it in 2020. Now, look at 2024. It's a razor-thin margin.

Why do you think it's such a close race in Michigan? And do you think Harris is on track to win it or lose it as it stands right now today?

MICHAEL MOORE, FILMMARKER: I think if you ask me, average, what we call ourselves Michiganders, I don't think they feel that it's close but -- and we know how often the polls are wrong, and have been wrong over the years, most famously, in the 2016 election where that morning, "The New York Times" on their front page said that there was an 85 percent chance of Hillary winning the election today, and only at 15 percent chance of Trump winning.

So -- so we have a history of that but I think that what Vice President Harris needs to do because we have 200,000 to 300,000 Arab and Muslim voters, residents, citizens in Michigan and Harris and Biden got 70 percent of the Arab Michigan vote in Michigan in 2020, 70 percent.

After Biden deciding to fund Prime Minister Netanyahu and arm Israel in this war, with no conditions to follow the law, to not kill civilians, et cetera, and with 40,000 plus civilians dead, nearly half of them children, the Arab American vote in Michigan by May of this year had gone from 70 percent in favor of Biden Harris to 12 percent.

Now, since the announcement of President Biden stepping aside and Vice President Harris being the candidate, she has done better but still, the last poll I saw, maybe a week or two ago, she was still 18 points behind where they were in 2020. That's not good. Hillary lost Michigan by 10,000 votes. That's two votes per precinct to I believe that the 136,000 that Biden/Harris won there in 2020.

We can't afford to lose 18 percent of the Arab and Muslim vote. So, I think what Vice President Harris really has to do at this point is go to Dearborn, go to the Arab and Muslim areas of Detroit and Flint and be very clear where I think your reporting over this year and others have mentioned that she has been an advocate inside the White House to humanitarian aid, care about the Palestinian people and their self- determination.

[16:50:03]

All of that and she's now said that publicly. But I think it has not been heard by a lot of people in Michigan. And I think it's not -- it's not just the Arab vote, it's young people in Michigan, it's students, all people that she needs. I think she needs to make a very clear statement that like she's on Stephen Colbert last week, he said to her, his first question, you say the polls perceive you as the change candidate, not Trump, what is the change in you? I mean, for you and she her first and answer said, I'm not Joe Biden.

And she didn't say it in a mean way. She just spoke the truth. She's her own person. Should she needs to be more of that and let people know that this war will not continue, we will not fund the killing of civilian, and she just needs to, again, remind the voters that she's the person that's going to increase the child tax credit. It's going to be supportive of labor, et cetera, et cetera.

BROWN: All right. Michael Moore, thank you for coming on and sharing your thoughts about this all important battleground state, Michigan. We appreciate your time today.

MOORE: It's very kind of you. Thank you for having me.

BROWN: And up next, a CNN exclusive that may be a first dressing like a panda, seriously, smelling like a panda to get up close with the panda. Pretty good deal I think.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:55:33]

BROWN: Well, this is not your average FedEx delivery to say the least. Giant pandas landed today near D.C. They are now at the National Zoo.

The pair left China last night and CNN's David Culver was the only U.S. reporter there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They're saying, Bao Li and Qing Bao, have a safe trip.

You are getting a very rare the look at the panda sendoff here in China.

I've never been this close to a panda but there she is.

A few hours earlier, a private farewell for the three-year-old panda pair, and a ceremonial transfer of care from China to the U.S.

We've got here a few days ahead of the sendoff.

I made it. It's a long journey.

Traveling to Chengdu and meeting up with panda keepers from the Smithsonian's National Zoo.

Thanks for making time. I know you guys are busy, Mario, Trish. We catch them just outside the pandemic quarantine zone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This was what I worked for and it feels so surreal.

CULVER: The majestic mountains of Sichuan province or the natural habitat for these beloved creatures.

Chances of us actually seeing went out here, we're told, are quite slim.

We're granted access to a reserve that tourists aren't allowed, joining the researchers from the Smithsonian who specialize in panda rewilding or efforts to reintroduce them to their natural habitat.

MELISSA SONGER, CONSERVATIION BIOLOGIST, SMITHSONIAN NATIONAL ZOO: Part of the reason for putting them in an area like this, and keeping them away from people is so that they're not acclimatize to people. You wouldn't want to release a panda and have them approach a village, for example.

CULVER: We're told we can meet some of the forest panda trackers. But first, we need to suit up.

All right. Let's try it.

A panda suit, just in case we stumbled across a panda cub. They don't want humans to become part of their everyday routine.

So it's for that reason that we're suiting up to look like them. Because it looks like a panda?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're not only putting on just the suit by itself. You're also going to pit panda's urine and poop on so you have the sense.

CULVER: Has that been on this suit before?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is clean. It's being cleaned.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So if -- if they sense on a signal that a cub is nearby, they're going to put on a hood into hiding.

CULVER: Conservation efforts like these are funded in part by the panda exchange programs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our two guys that came over 20 years ago.

CULVER: Zoos like the Smithsonian's pay $1 million a year to host a pair of giant pandas, adding to the pressure.

BRANDIE SMITH, DIRECTOR, SMITHSONIAN NATIONAL ZOO: Would just imagine everything we do, the entire world is watching and there's no margin for error.

CULVER: Especially given how beloved pandas are in places like Chengdu, that creatures are larger than life here.

And their most loyal fans stand hours in line to catch a glimpse of their favorite ones.

You could say like everybody gets super excited, they've already got their positions.

And there are even panda influencers like Atu (ph), who post content from his bedroom.

So, you're into pandas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I should -- sorry, before we start, can we just move one big panda to that one there?

CULVER: Which doubles as a studio.

Why do you love them so much?

A'QUI, PANDA INFLUENCER: Cute, so cute.

CULVER: The pandas that go part of the exchange program from here in China to the U.S., what do you make of that?

A'QUI (through translator): This is an agreement between China and the U.S. and because I love my country and I love pandas, I support it.

CULVER: The panda exchange for panda diplomacy dates back to 1972. President Nixon's historic visit sparking China to send pandas to the U.S.

And now to many other countries.

Months of planning to pull off this transfer and in Washington, renovations to make sure Bao Li and Qing Bao's new home is just right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tree trimming here also. We know they're going to climb. They love to climb.

CULVER: The zoos been advertising pandas are coming and now, they've arrived.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CULVER (on camera): And that was 16-hour flight for those pandas altogether. And they're going to spend about a month in quarantine and then they'll have an adjustment period, Pamela.

There'll be on public display January 24, and I was concerned pretty on that soon. I mean, I assumed it was being set up in a prank or something, but I was assured that is a very serious part of conservation efforts here.

BROWN: Yeah. Nothing like putting on a panda suit for national television consumption but wow, it is for a good cause. David Culver in China, thank you so much.

And you can follow the show on X @TheLeadCNN. You can find me on X @PamelaBrownCNN.

The news continues on CNN with Wolf Blitzer and "THE SITUATION ROOM". Have a great night.