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The Lead with Jake Tapper

FBI Investigating Bomb Threats, Swatting Incidents Targeting Trump Cabinet Picks And Top Appointees; Federal Employees Worry About Becoming Musk's Targets; TSA Prepares For Busiest Thanksgiving On Record; Residents In Northern Israel Fear Conflict Will Persist. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired November 27, 2024 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Splitting a squirrel three ways for dinner. I'm sure those folks are very grateful to get those turkeys. As you see them going down right there. Hopefully, you're prepping some Turkey as well.

Rahel, a pleasure to have you here.

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN HOST: Thanks for having me.

SANCHEZ: Yeah. You're cooking something special tomorrow.

SOLOMON: Banana pudding. It's my special. Yeah.

SANCHEZ: Ship some more way. Take a plane and drop some off to us here at CNN.

SOLOMON: Good to be with you.

SANCHEZ: Appreciate you.

THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER starts in just a few seconds. Thanks so much for being with us today.

(MUSIC)

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: The Thanksgiving rush is setting records.

THE LEAD starts right now.

By plane, by rail, on the roads, Americans are on the go traveling in record numbers as we approach Thanksgiving. But can all those people get to their destinations before Mother Nature moves in?

Plus, a stunning alleged murder for hire plot targeting a detective. The suspect, a dentist, already in jail for allegedly poisoning his wife.

And fears of a target list for the world's richest man. The names of government employees shared online by Elon Musk. Could their jobs and their safety now be on the line? (MUSIC)

HILL: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Erica Hill, in for Jake Tapper.

We begin with our national lead. Multiple members of the incoming Trump administration targeted with bomb threats and false crime reports. The Trump-Vance transition team says the threats were made against some of Trump's cabinet picks, as well as appointees for top jobs.

So far, we know the list includes Congresswoman Elise Stefanik, Trump's pick to be the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations. John Ratcliffe selected as CIA director, Congresswoman Lori Chavez-DeRemer, Trump's choice to run the Labor Department. Lee Zeldin, who's been tapped to head the Environmental Protection Agency, Brooke Rollins nominated to head the Department of Agriculture, and Scott Turner Trump's choice to lead the Department of Housing and Urban Development.

Let's get straight to CNN's Jeff Zeleny, who is following these developments for us.

So, Jeff, the FBI is now involved in investigating what more do we know about what happened here?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erica, we do know the FBI and local law enforcement officials are investigating the series of incidents that took place Tuesday night and Wednesday morning at the homes of several potential members of President-elect Trump's new cabinet.

Now, a spokeswoman for the Trump transition is telling us that several potential nominees were targeted in what they call violent, un- American threats, ranging from bomb threats to swatting incidents. Of course, those are when police are summoned under the hoax of some type of criminal threat at a particular address.

Now, of course, this comes at a time of highly charged partisan politics these types of threats have been frequently reported to high profile individuals of all ideologies, but Lee Zeldin, a former New York congressman who's Trump's choice to lead the environmental protection agency, said he and his family were targeted by a pipe bomb with a pro-Palestinian themed message but none of the other officials elaborated on the nature of their threats.

Now, we do know that federal officials are investigating. In a statement, the FBI said this. It is aware of numerous bomb threats and swatting incidents targeting incoming administration nominees and appointees. And we are working with our law enforcement partners. We take all potential threats seriously.

Now, its unclear if all of these incidents are linked and how credible these threats actually were, but the timing certainly suggests some type of coordination heading into the Thanksgiving holiday. Erica.

HILL: Jeff, appreciate it. Thank you. Also with me, Andrew McCabe, who, of course, served as deputy director

of the FBI.

So set the stage for us here, if you will, just how common or not are these threats? Does it surprise you at all?

ANDREW MCCABE, FORMER FBI DEPUTY DIRECTOR: Erica, it doesn't surprise me at all. This has become a very, very common aspect of life for really anyone who is in a high profile or even remotely controversial position. It's been going on for years. It presents the same challenge to law enforcement each time someone engages in it. They probably know 90 percent sure that these threats as they come in are worthless.

They are hoax. There's nothing to them, but they can't take the risk of not responding on the off chance that one real threat gets through. So they've developed all sorts of tactics to try to respond to these targeted locations, but in a way with something less than actually sending out a SWAT team or a massive armed response.

They've gotten quite good at it. Its something that really, you know, is a -- is levied on the shoulders of local law enforcement. The FBI comes in at times to help investigate who might be behind these, but its really our local law enforcement folks that bear the burden of it.

HILL: So the fact that you said they're 90 percent sure that a lot of these are hoaxes initially, they can tell pretty quickly. How quickly though, can they determine where the threat is actually coming from?

MCCABE: That's much tougher, right? Because anyone with even rudimentary internet skills can communicate these threats in ways that are pretty anonymous. You know, you can there are different tools and aspects of the dark web and other -- other cyber tools that you can use to send in emails or phone calls to entities in a way that will not leave a trace of where you are.

[16:05:12]

So they can be very hard to follow up. To be clear, these are crimes. Sending these false threats into law enforcement are specifically prohibited by law, but it's very hard to find the folks behind the threats to follow up with prosecutions.

HILL: In terms of what we do and do not know about these threats, the fact that you're not that surprised by it, is there ever a concern about making these threats public, and how that could potentially encourage people?

MCCABE: I think that's -- there's always that concern. And speaking, as someone who has received these threats in the past, you know, you go through a process where you feel like maybe I should keep this as -- as low key as possible because you don't want to give someone else the idea, and then they follow up with it.

But ultimately, you know, that's up to the each individual targeted. It seems like many of the folks who receive these threats today, many of the transition team members or newly designated nominees have decided to become public -- to be public about it. I think that's probably a bold and courageous choice, and one that hopefully will bring more attention to this sort of material.

HILL: Well, on the topic of safety concerns, there are some government workers who are now worried they could become personal targets of the world's richest man. I'm going to come back to you on that topic.

But first I want to go to my colleague Hadas Gold on this.

So this is all coming after Elon Musk publicized the names of federal employees and their roles and even their pay, in some cases putting some of that information online.

Hadas Gold joining me now with more of her reporting.

So the fact that this information was put out there, Elon Musk putting it out. What happened to these employees?

HADAS GOLD, CNN MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, they're getting a torrent of negative posts and we don't know what else they may be receiving privately from the -- from Elon Musk's legions of followers. You know, federal employees know that likely a lot of job cuts are coming as part of this effort to try and make the government more efficient, being led by Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy, some of them even support this effort, saying, you know great, let's do it. Let's make government more efficient. There might be some job losses.

But now there is a new fear unlocked after last week when Elon Musk reposted a post from an anonymous account that was posting screen grabs from a publicly available database of federal employees but in these screen grabs include the names the titles, and the city of some federal government workers.

Now, the person who was posting this was kind of making fun of these jobs saying, why are they? Why do they exist? These are titles like director of climate diversification, senior adviser on environmental justice and climate change. They were all climate related jobs.

Elon Musk reposted some of these posts and commented things like so many fake jobs. But whatever you think of what these jobs do and whether they should be funded by the federal government, these are otherwise private individuals. These are not necessarily public facing roles. None of these people are spokespeople for these agencies.

And so now there is a fear from federal government, from federal government employees that this could happen to them as well. And what could happen in the aftermath, because Elon Musk has done this before. He has publicly gone after individuals in the past, often on X or what was then Twitter. I spoke to some of these people, and some of them have told me that in the aftermath of being targeted by Elon Musk, they were getting threats, some of them death threats. They had to temporarily leave their homes. Some of them eventually just moved permanently.

We are hearing from the -- from the representatives of federal government, the union that represent them, saying that these tactics are aimed at sowing terror and fear at federal employees. And, Erica, something else really stunning that I discovered while reporting this as I reached out to experts on cyber harassment trying to get their point of view on this, and two of them specifically declined to speak to me on the record and give their names because they themselves were fearful of becoming the next target of Elon Musk.

Now, Rene Marsh, our colleague, did speak to Vivek Ramaswamy on this, and he said our opponent is not any particular individual. He said, our opponent is the bureaucracy. We did not hear back from X or Elon Musk when we reached out for comment.

HILL: I am really struck by that in your reporting that these experts were afraid to speak out because they feared being on the receiving end of this from Elon Musk. As you noted, he's done it before. But he's also criticized the practice, hasn't he?

GOLD: He has. I mean, if you remember, there was a few years ago, there was a young man named Jack Sweeney. I actually spoke to him, and he had the account called Elon Jets that tracked publicly available data of Elon -- Elon Musk's private airplane and where it was going. And Elon Musk went after him took him, took his account down, took journalists, including our colleague Donie O'Sullivan's accounts down who reported on this, saying that it was a threat to his family, a threat to his safety even though this is technically publicly available data.

Now, ironically, that is sort of what Elon Musk is doing right now because that information that he posted, it is publicly available data. But these are private individuals and he just put their names completely on blast.

HILL: Yeah. It is really something. Hadas Gold, glad you're on the story for us. Thank you.

Andy McCabe is still with us.

So when you look at this, Andy, in terms of what das laid out for us here, when you are this private citizen sure that information may be publicly available, but its far different when Elon Musk is blasting it out. Is there any sort of protection or recourse for people like this?

MCCABE: You know, Erica, probably not. It's a -- it's a tough situation. So unlike the swatting we were talking about a few minutes ago, that is specifically illegal. There are laws that address it.

There's not really statutes that criminalize the irresponsible things that Elon Musk is now doing with these peoples identity. There could be privacy act implications, but that's probably unlikely. The information about salary of particular government positions and things like that, that's all. As you mentioned, publicly available information.

Nevertheless, when working in government, we go to great lengths to keep the personal identities of people in those positions concealed or at least we keep them out of things like public filings for exactly this reason, those folks are entitled to their privacy and it could provoke this sort of this sort of attention that's really, you know, can be threatening and awful for people to go through.

Elon Musk obviously hasn't exercised that same level of discretion here, and it's very different when you do it from a position like his in which he has millions and millions of rabid followers who listen to and read everything he says and writes and sometimes have you seen take action on, on those on those missives. So, yeah, it's really irresponsible. It's super unfortunate but I -- it doesn't probably rise to the level of criminal illegality.

HILL: Andrew McCabe, always appreciate your insight, your expertise here. Thank you.

Thanks, Erica.

Right now in the U.S., counting the airlines, the railways, all the roads, experts think that today is going to be the busiest travel day before Thanksgiving. From the problem spots to the stormy weather on the way, we have got it all covered for you.

Plus, a major story on the international front. Day one of the cease fire between Israel and Hezbollah. So, can it hold? We'll take you live to the region next.

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HILL: Back now with our national lead. Today's big travel questions: Will you or your guests make it on time for Thanksgiving dinner? And just how will the weather impact those plans?

First, let's tackle the travel. New numbers from the TSA show this week is on track to break records for those flying to their holiday destinations.

CNN aviation correspondent Pete Muntean has a front row seat to the masses at Reagan National Airport, just outside of Washington, D.C.

So, Pete, give me a sense. How many more people are flying this year?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: We're up about 2 percent from what we saw last year. And remember, there was year after year of increases from the depths of the pandemic. These numbers are the biggest we have ever seen in TSA history. Really continues the theme, the TSA says its top ten biggest days of all time have been in 2024.

A passenger walked by earlier. He said things here aren't as bad as he anticipated, although the day is still pretty young and this is when the rush really begins for folks leaving town after the end of the workday on Wednesday, trying to get it to grandma's house on Thursday.

So far, the TSA has seen 2.7 million people yesterday; 2.9 million people expected to be screened at airports nationwide today. Things have not been smooth everywhere though. The big pain point for the Federal Aviation Administration is in Newark, and now it has put in place a delay program, meaning delaying flights into Newark.

The average delay about an hour and 35 minutes. The cause of this is air traffic control staffing. The FAA is short staffed of controllers everywhere. Many controllers working mandatory six day weeks, working 12 hour shifts. But it is particularly acute at Newark.

The FAA has gone to such great lengths to try and alleviate the problems there, moving the facility responsible for that airspace from New York to Philadelphia although things have not been perfectly smooth and the FAA says they're trying to hire more and more controllers all the time, they anticipated that there would be delays in Newark, but it has been pretty bad so far. This week, they had a ground stop yesterday.

The help can't come soon enough for all of these people flying today. One thing the FAA is doing is it has opened up airspace that is typically reserved for military air traffic off the coast of the East Coast over the Atlantic Ocean to try and speed things up moving a lot of people still moving to the airport right now. This is when the rush really begins, and we'll keep an eye on it -- Erica.

HILL: Pete, I feel like we keep topping records when it comes to holiday travel. Every time you and I talk about this, is that the sense and is that what you're hearing from even the folks at the FAA that they expect maybe even 2025, is going to be bigger than this year?

MUNTEAN: It keeps going higher and higher. The travel experts, especially at AAA think that we have burst the pandemic era post- pandemic era revenge travel bubble. And now things may start to slow down a little bit, although we will probably see an all time air travel record according to TSA administrator David Pekoske.

On Sunday, he tells me that is when we could see 3 million people at airports nationwide. That is a huge number that has never been seen before. A lot of people trying to travel, and this is now the new norm.

HILL: I am going to stay home so as to not get in their way on Sunday.

Pete Muntean at Reagan National Airport, thank you, my friend.

And now, as for the second part of this equation for your holiday travel, it is the weather for many of you. Thanksgiving is going to be served up with a side of rain or snow. Perhaps a lot of cold temperatures, and those could actually get worse over the holiday weekend.

CNN meteorologist Elisa Raffa is following this part of the story for us.

So what are we going to see not just tomorrow on Thanksgiving, Elisa, but over these next few days?

ELISA RAFFA, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It's about to get cold, some of the coldest air of the season so far. Today, though, is the best travel day really of the weekend. We have a storm that's developing, but it doesn't really have its juices together yet. That's why we've had some green showing up on the map here as far as the airlines are concerned. It's been some smooth sailing in the skies.

On the roads, however, a little bit of a different story. We do have some rain and snow on I-70, stretching from Denver across Kansas, Kansas City with some rain, pretty much all day. Roads are wet as we go into Indianapolis again, continuing along I-70 into Indy, near Cincinnati, and then even parts of eastern Pennsylvania there.

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So starting to develop with some of that rain and snow on the roads in the Midwest. Then as we go into tomorrow, we're looking at pretty soggy turkeys because this storm system will start to really flourish. And expand and take the rain and snow basically from Maine with rain stretching down to the Gulf Coast along that front.

And that could cause some problems when it comes to travel especially in New England. We are looking at possibly some major disruptions when it comes to travel because of several inches of snow likely for parts of interior New England.

So you can see how that storm that we have now in the Midwest really starts to blow up tomorrow. Snow for upstate New York, parts of interior, New England, you know, New Hampshire, Vermont and then that rain, some soggy parades in New York and Philly and then stretching down towards Charlotte, Atlanta with some of that, the showers, the cold air comes in and pumps the lake effect snow machine all weekend.

So if you're doing traveling around the Great Lakes, that's going to be a problem even going into Saturday and Sunday. So you can see where we have some more problems on Thursday, D.C. and New York. And then here comes all of that snow in the Great Lakes going into the weekend -- Erica.

HILL: All right. Going to keep things busy. Lisa, appreciate it. Thank you.

Well, rain or shine, CNN is kicking off something special tomorrow, "THANKSGIVING IN AMERICA" parades, performances, celebrity guests and Harry Enten.

Right now, he's at one of the most coveted spots along the parade route here in New York City. He is all dolled up for the event.

Harry, this was of course, an assignment with your name written all over it. I can see you're enjoying it.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Oh, I am absolutely enjoying it. I mean, I got my big brother Tom right behind me over my left shoulder. Tom has been part of this parade basically, since it began. 100 years ago.

And more than that look, we got so many people that are coming in. I mean, how can you not feel the energy with all these folks coming in? Just a beautiful occasion to celebrate America, to celebrate family and so I am absolutely ecstatic.

Of course, the balloons right now they are getting inflated. Some of them are not yet up, but others of them are under the nets. But tomorrow, when folks join us, Erica, they will be able to see those big giant balloons 17 of them marching right down central park west, heading towards of course, the Macy's flagship store on 34th street. And the big thing this year is, of course, we have new balloons such as Minnie Mouse.

Look, Mickey has been part of this parade for years. I say its about gosh darn time that Minnie Mouse is part of the parade. Women's rights finally making themselves heard here at the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade, Erica.

HILL: Harry, I always knew you were an ally. It's good to hear we shot a little -- saw a little shot of Minnie there. It looks like she -- she is in the process.

That balloon in the process of getting inflated. That is a great tradition for anybody if they're ever in New York City for it. We always did it with our kids when we were little.

Harry, I'll see you in the morning, my friend. Good luck out there -- Harry.

ENTEN: I am looking forward to it. Rain, snow or shine, we'll be there.

HILL: Yeah, we're like the post office. Nothing is going to get in our way in terms of all that parade action.

Yes, Harry will be there on the parade route, along with some more of our friends, so be sure to join Harry, as well as John Berman and myself. Berman and I are hosting "THANKSGIVING IN AMERICA". As I mentioned, lots of big names are a part of this. They too want to wish you a happy holiday so we hope you'll join us starting tomorrow morning at 8:00 a.m. Eastern Time, right here on CNN and also streaming on MAX. In case, you're, you know, sitting in an airport.

Just ahead here on THE LEAD, I'm going to speak with the top U.S. official who helped to negotiate the new ceasefire between Israel and Hezbollah. We're back with that in just a moment.

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HILL: In our world lead, almost a full day now into the cease fire between Israel and Hezbollah and some people in southern Lebanon are at along the Israeli border, are now returning to their homes after months of conflict.

But as CNN's Jeremy Diamond reports from northern Israel, just because there is a deal, doesn't mean that everyone feels safe going back.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENTT: So you're back in Shtula with all the dogs?

ORI ELIYAHU, SHTULA RESIDENT: Yeah.

DIAMOND: Huh?

ELIYAHU: I am at home. It's not really home at the moment, but --

DIAMOND (voice-over): Ori Eliyahu is one of just a handful of residents living in this Israeli community along the Lebanese border, but he's not back because he thinks it's safe.

ELIYAHU: So basically not -- not -- it's not just that this is Lebanon, that you see here, there the mountain.

DIAMOND: Yeah.

ELIYAHU: Those houses are Hezbollah houses. They are shooting missiles from there.

DIAMOND: The new ceasefire agreement means Hezbollah must withdraw from this area, about 25 miles north of the Israeli border.

But like many others in northern Israel, Ori doesn't trust Hezbollah nor the Israeli governments assurances that it will prevent Hezbollah from regrouping.

On the first day of this new ceasefire, Shtula is just as much of a ghost town as when we visited over the summer.

Let's go quick.

Back then, the Israeli military gave us just three minutes to see homes struck by anti-tank missiles, fearing Hezbollah could strike again.

I remember when I came here --

Today, overlooking that same view, standing along that same devastated home that threat seems further away. But for how long?

Your fear is that this agreement wont prevent this from happening again.

ELIYAHU: You are saying it's a fear. It's not fear. It's not fear. It's a fact.

Here in the Middle East, this is how you go this is how this thing works. If a terrorist can shoot you, he'll shoot you.

DIAMOND: He says his neighbors among the roughly 60,000 Israelis displaced from the north don't feel safe enough to return.

]16:30:06]

ELIYAHU: They won't do it. We are speaking about it all the time, in the WhatsApp group and in the phone and everywhere they want. They are not stupid.

DIAMOND: Just down the road, Ora Hatan is enjoying her first peaceful day in more than a year.

ORA HATAN, SHTULA RESIDENT: We wake up to the quiet morning. It's after one year. It's unusual.

DIAMOND: She too is skeptical that the ceasefire will lead to a lasting peace, but she doesn't see an alternative.

HATAN: I spoke with the soldier. They're tired. They exhaust. Also what -- what another option we that we have to do to arrive to Beirut.

DIAMOND: On the Lebanese side of the border, many civilians were quick to return to southern Lebanon.

Yes. Thank God, I'm happy, of course. We're going back to our hometown, to our land.

The Lebanese military also headed south, expected to monitor Hezbollah activity as a fragile truce takes hold.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DIAMOND (on camera): And, Erica, while that fragile truce has held up so far, that doesn't mean it's been entirely quiet. While we were on the Israel-Lebanon border today, we heard at least one burst of outgoing artillery fire and also some small arms fire in the distance the Israeli military indeed now confirming that it has not only fired warning shots at individuals who are approaching their military positions in southern Lebanon, but actually eliminated they say Hezbollah operatives in the area. They say that any armed Hezbollah operative is a violation of the ceasefire, and that they will enforce that cease fire themselves -- Erica.

HILL: Jeremy Diamond, appreciate it. Thank you.

Joining me now, Amos Hochstein, who's the lead U.S. negotiator behind that ceasefire deal, traveling to the region several times.

So, as we just heard in Jeremy's piece there, not only what were hearing from the Israeli military in terms of those warning shots, but you heard from two residents from Ori and also from Ora, who are skeptical that this ceasefire will hold.

Are you confident it will hold?

AMOS HOCHSTEIN, LEAD U.S. NEGOTIATOR FOR ISRAEL-HEZBOLLAH CEASEFIRE: Well, first, Erica, thank you for having me.

Look, the cease fire that was agreed to yesterday, this is a -- we're in a day one of this cease fire. So I and others will hold judgment.

The hope is that this is a permanent cease fire. That is not just a cessation of hostilities on a temporary basis. I saw a lot of reports that this is a 60-day ceasefire. It is not. It is a permanent ceasefire that will require Hezbollah to move away from the border.

But Israeli positions inside Lebanon are going to continue to be there for a few more weeks and will they, as they depart Lebanon on a gradual basis. So the Lebanese military will now come in and as they deploy to the south, the Israeli military will redeploy back into Israel.

And look, there's a lot of military gains that were achieved here. But at some point you have to translate those gains into an agreement. The government of Israel felt that this was the right time, as did the Lebanese and so this ceasefire came about.

HILL: Can you take us inside these -- these final hours of the of these negotiations?

HOCHSTEIN: Well, it was -- it was a very tense last couple of weeks of these negotiations.

I went to Beirut, stayed an extra day, and then went to Israel and came back over the weekend where we still had some things to do. President Biden made a number of critical phone calls to leaders in order to be able to secure it.

But as I said before, we've had a ceasefire that in 2006, it ended the last war. It was not implemented and neither side did any implementation, especially Hezbollah building terrorist infrastructure across the border. And so we were determined not to just have a ceasefire, but a comprehensive agreement that will include components of implementation to ensure that Hezbollah is not there. And most importantly, to ensure that the infrastructure is not there and is not allowed to be rebuilt.

And so, the United States, for the first time, is going to play a role in the monitoring and the implementation of this agreement in order to give more confidence. And so the last few days were -- until the -- until it was voted on in the cabinet in Israel and agreed to by the Lebanese government, there were -- there were a lot of issues that could have come up to derail it. And so, we were really trying to work this until the very last minute.

But as I said before, the prime minister of Israel felt this was in the right best interest of Israel and the Lebanese felt the same way, which is why they asked us to try to do a major push to get it. And I'm pleased that we have it and a lot of lives will be saved as a result.

HILL: It is tough not to look at this and remember the number of lives lost, some 3,000 Lebanese were killed. Dozens of villages were wiped out in this conflict. You talked about translating some of the gains, right, into this agreement essentially.

[16:35:02]

There is perhaps some -- some cautious hope that maybe this could change things in terms of the situation in Gaza. Do you hold out any hope that this could, in fact, influence some movement when it comes to some sort of a ceasefire and hostage release negotiation for Gaza?

HOCHSTEIN: First of all, I you know, being who I am, I always hold hope and I work towards -- I believe in reality. Many people said that breaking the linkage between Lebanon and Gaza was impossible, and that we would not be able to reach a ceasefire in Lebanon without one in Gaza. And that was proven wrong. So I'm glad we were able to get that due to the perseverance of the president and the effort here.

But I do think, Erica, that look Hamas woke up this morning at 4:00 a.m. and realizing that the idea that they had Hezbollah as supporters of theirs by linking the two conflicts, that that was that link was broken that Hezbollah had cut a deal and now they were the only ones and that they were alone, and the cavalry wasn't coming from the north.

Moreover, Israel is no longer fighting a two front war. It is fighting a one front war. And so this is a moment of opportunity. And as the president said yesterday, we will go out and try to get a ceasefire in Gaza that brings out the hostages, including the American ones.

So I think we may have a turning point here that we need to explore.

HILL: Real quickly in terms of that, and the president's pledge to continue to try there, he said. It's going to be different, but we haven't heard a lot of specifics on how it is now different. Is it simply that this is now a one front war for Israel? Is that the only thing that's changed, or is there more?

HOCHSTEIN: Well, I think that over the last several weeks and a couple of months the entire region has changed. Iran's number one proxy, Hezbollah, is -- has been degraded and diminished significantly and now Hamas is on its own. I think that changes the dynamic.

The president also said Hamas, at the end of the day, did not come to negotiating table for a long time now with in good faith to negotiate. We're hoping that now the Lebanon deal will help us get to a place where we can have a discussion in earnest and the president is determined to fight to the last minute to try to be able to get a deal that brings the hostages home and provides the region some stability.

HILL: Amos Hochstein, appreciate you joining us tonight. Thank you.

HOCHSTEIN: Thank you very much.

HILL: President-elect Donald Trump and the men he wants to make America wealthy again. We'll take a closer look at who those picks are and what it could mean for your help -- for your health, rather.

One more look here. You're looking at pictures live from LAX, Los Angeles International Airport on this busy Thanksgiving eve of travel.

Stay with us. This is THE LEAD.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:42:10]

HILL: In our health lead, President-elect Donald Trump has picked a vocal critic of strict COVID lockdowns to lead the National Institutes of Health.

Trump wants Dr. Jay Bhattacharya for NIH director, which could be under the purview of Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who, of course, has spoken out against vaccines and also pushed conspiracy theories in October of 2020, Bhattacharya coauthored the Great Barrington Declaration, an open letter calling for an end to COVID lockdowns, advocating for those at, quote, minimal risk of death to live their lives normally to build up immunity to the virus through natural infection as a way to protect those most vulnerable to COVID.

Well, at the time, the then NIH Director Francis Collins called Bhattacharya and his fellow authors fringe epidemiologists.

Joining me now is a member of the FDA's Vaccine Advisory committee, Dr. Paul Offit, who is, of course, also director of the vaccine education center for the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia.

Dr. Offit, in terms of Dr. Bhattacharya, he would, of course still need to be confirmed by the Senate. What do you make of the idea, though of him running NIH?

DR. PAUL OFFIT, VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER DIRECTOR, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: Well, it's a difficult spot because if Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. is confirmed to be the director or the secretary of health and human services he has said that he thinks that the NIH has been ignoring chronic diseases and that they've let us down, and that what we need to do is gut the National Institutes of Health, who've only been paying attention to infectious diseases and have them stop doing that, or what he said the, quote, was, we need to give infectious diseases a break for a while which tells you how little he appreciates NIH.

I can only hope that Dr. Bhattacharya appreciates what NIH just did. Everybody talks about Operation Warp Speed, which was a great program in the Trump administration, but that was a production program. The reason we had mRNA vaccines is that the National Institutes of Health had funded people like Drew Weissman and Katalin Kariko, who eventually won this years Nobel Prize to do mRNA research starting in 1997.

And you had people like Barney Graham and Kizzy Corbett in house at NIH, who also were working on an mRNA vaccine for SARS-1. That's why we had mRNA vaccines so quickly, which saved 3 million lives.

So when RFK Jr. says, lets give infectious disease a break for a while, realize they're not going to be giving us a break I can only hope Dr. Bhattacharya realizes that.

HILL: When we look at what he has said in the past, certainly since the pandemic, there has been a lot of reflection. There's been a lot of learning from the decisions that were made at the time for a virus that we were all learning about in real time.

When you look back, do you see any instances where he may have been correct, where health officials may have made mistakes in enforcing certain COVID mandates?

OFFIT: No, I think that we probably I think we definitely shuttered schools for too long. And I think children paid a price in terms of socialization and education. I think we shuttered businesses for too long.

[16:45:01]

But at the time, that decision was made, which was 2020, which is when this Great Barrington Declaration was written, we didn't have anything. We didn't have antivirals, we didn't have monoclonal antibodies. We didn't have vaccines. All we had was avoid human to human contact and so that's what we did shuttered schools, closed businesses, restricted travel and that saved lives.

And there's no better explanation for that than in our hospital usually October and November, we are flooded with cases of respiratory syncytial virus and influenza we didn't see a single case of those respiratory viruses, which tells you how much worse COVID would have been. How would, had we not done that early?

HILL: And it may also tell us how effective some of that distancing and masking actually was at the time in terms of passing on other diseases as you noted, even if we -- we collectively, as a country maybe gave infectious diseases a break, they would not give us a break. So how do you think then ultimately Bhattacharya could change the NIH if in fact this does happen?

OFFIT: Does it need to be changed? I think they've done a great job. And when RFK, Jr. says that that, you know, we are ignoring chronic diseases what chronic diseases is he talking about exactly. And what is the plan? It's just this kind of vague sort of hand-waving of make America wealthy again.

I mean, I'm all for, you know, dieting and eating better foods and exercising. That's great. But what does that have to do with the National Institutes of Health.

HILL: Do you think that they fundamentally understand the job of the NIH or the role, I should say?

OFFIT: I worry. I certainly worry when RFK, Jr. says, let's give infectious diseases a break for a while. You got H5 bird flu out there. We've had three COVID pandemics in the last 20 years. Ebola caused an epidemic.

These viruses are going to be with us for a long time and as is this virus, SARS-CoV-2 will be with us for decades, if not longer.

HILL: Dr. Paul Offit always appreciate your expertise and your insight. Thank you.

OFFIT: Thank you.

HILL: Just ahead here, a shocking alleged murder for hire plot. A police detective wanted dead, allegedly by dentist already in jail and accused of poisoning his wife. The details on this latest turn, next.

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[16:51:06]

HILL: In our law and justice lead, authorities say a Colorado dentist who is accused of killing his wife also allegedly plotted to kill a detective who investigated the case.

According to a court filing, James Craig tried to convince a fellow inmate to kill the detective.

CNN's Jean Casarez joining us now with more on this latest twist in a very disturbing murder case.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Two new charges in the case of the Colorado dentist already facing a first degree murder charge of his wife by allegedly poisoning her daily protein shake last year.

Now he's charged with soliciting the murder of a member of law enforcement in Colorado.

DR. JIM CRAIG, DENTIST: My name is Dr. Jim Craig and I practice at Summerbrook Dental Group.

CASAREZ: An Aurora police department spokesperson telling CNN Craig allegedly plotted to have a detective on the case killed and was trying to recruit a former inmate to do it. The two additional felony charges have now delayed Craig's trial, for which jury selection was originally set to begin last week. Court records show Craig is also accused of asking his daughter and a different former inmate to help cover up the crime.

Prosecutors say Craig sent that former inmate a letter from prison, promising to reimburse any costs, take care of the inmate and his family financially, and provide expensive dental work at no cost. He also asked if he could recruit a couple attractive women who he'd be willing to pay to say they had an affair with Craig and dated on and off for about a year or so, and that the women would claim that at some point, Angela Craig found out about the affair and had had enough, in what appears to be an effort to show Angela was suicidal.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It seemed like something that he could ever do to her.

CASAREZ: Police say Craig, a father of six, killed his wife by poisoning her protein shakes with toxic chemicals like arsenic and potassium cyanide he bought online, something that stunned some of his longtime patients. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mind blown. I have no other words. I just stood

there completely baffled and confused.

CASAREZ: In March of 2023, Angela was hospitalized multiple times complaining of a severe headache and dizziness. She died March 18th after she was declared brain dead. Police say Angela knew something was wrong, citing earlier text messages between her and Craig in which she texted I feel drugged and he texted back just for the record, I didn't drug you.

Last week, the day jury selection was set to begin, Craig's attorney suddenly quit, citing rules of professional conduct about his client's behavior.

James Craig continues to maintain his innocence.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CASAREZ (on camera): The next hearing in this case is set for the middle of December. However, it is not known if Craig has new counsel at this point. It's going to take them a long time to go over this case because the charges keep mounting and there are six counts at this point but it is believed sometime next year, in 2025, this murder case, first-degree murder case will go to trial.

And we cannot forget Angela Craig. She is the victim in this. She had six children, married 23 years and now she's gone.

HILL: Yeah, it is so important. You're right, Jean. What -- what a story. Appreciate it. Thank you.

CASAREZ: Thank you.

HILL: Just ahead here. What were learning about a prisoner swap between the United States and China.

Plus, high profile visitors headed to Capitol Hill next week.

We're back in just a moment.

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[16:59:03]

HILL: In our world lead, China is releasing three U.S. citizens as part of a prisoner swap negotiated by the Biden administration. A U.S. official tells CNN, Kai Li, Mark Swidan and John Leung are being freed in exchange for unidentified Chinese nationals who have been in U.S. custody. Kay Li and Mark Swidan had been a designated as wrongfully detained by the U.S. State Department.

In our politics lead, Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy will be on Capitol Hill next week. That's according to Speaker Mike Johnson.

President-elect Donald Trump has tapped the two, of course, to head his new agency, which is being called the Department of Government Efficiency, or DOGE. Look for that high profile Hill visit next Thursday.

Speaker Johnson says Musk and Ramaswamy will speak with House and Senate Republicans about their major reform ideas.

And here's a live look at Chicago for you, one of many spots that you will see here on CNN tomorrow morning. for what we hope will soon -- will quickly become a holiday tradition, "THANKSGIVING IN AMERICA". We'll be highlighting the parade there in the Windy City, as well as a number of other spots across the country throughout the morning, including this one.

Here's a live look at New York City. You see Minnie Mouse there added to the parade this year. I believe that's Ronald McDonald right behind her. The balloons currently being inflated there on the Upper West Side of Manhattan. That is a beautiful tradition every year, which kicks off of course, ahead of the parade tomorrow morning. You'll see, we will also have live coverage in Houston, Chicago, Detroit and Philadelphia. Join us at 8:00 a.m. tomorrow.

The news continues in "THE SITUATION ROOM".